This video was edited by Thomas Wijnaendts of the Storytellers channel. Tell me what you think of this new partnership and check out his channel. ua-cam.com/channels/bphDfwSJmxk1Ny_3Oicrng.html
What a great idea. It really brought the video to another level, made it feel much more engaging, especially with the music and the way it was edited. Such a fantastic video Jonathan! I just bought Matthieu’s book and can’t wait to read it
Whenever I watch your videos I seem to discover that what you are explaining is something that I already knew, but could not fully articulate within my mind. Content like this is what I come to UA-cam for! Thank you.
Mr. Pageau, it's very helpful and instructive that you draw a lot from modern pop culture in your lessons. I see your videos mostly as mythology explained though pop culture, but many people are also seeking to understand pop culture and as such gets drawn back towards the mythology. One movie that always stuck with me is 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) by Stanley Kubrick. It's the deepest movie I've ever seen (without being too vague or incomprehensible). It drew me into reading the Bible very carefully. It's starting to make sense if you analyze it with concepts from Genesis, especially the fall of man and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It would be interesting to hear your take on it.
I'm pretty sure that 2001 shaped my childhood in a manner where I grew up to like content like Pageau's. My dad wasn't always there, but by golly, he wanted us to see good film. I would like to see the basement under the basement of 2001 symbolically. (or just the orthodox guy's interpretation)
Good video! Something I think you touched on as well - both Adam and Eve and Bruce Wayne were launched directly into not just knowledge, but experiential knowledge of good and evil. Once they have entered the realm of experiential knowledge, they try to put the world back together again, but can only do so partially. Adam and Eve can try to put together a version of Eden, but it's broken and incomplete. Adam toils with weeds in the attempt to grow things that just existed in the garden. Eve contends with pain and suffering to bring life into a world now filled with death. Despite their efforts, they can only mingle life into this world of death. Similarly, Bruce Wayne attempts to put together the just world of his innocent childhood\ by trying to solve his parents murder, then by bringing criminals to justice. Despite his efforts to make the world just, he can only mingle some justice into a world of injustice, and ultimately needs to deal with the injustice that he himself creates.
I am sooo appreciative that you didn't necessarily take a side on who has created the ultimate iteration of the Batman myth but instead delve into why the myth itself can still capture human imagination after so many decades since it's inception, pun intended. Thank you.
The Batman comic reboot by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo have added some layers to the story that you might find interesting. Particularly the relationship between Joker and Batman. It toys with questions of eternal life and Batman becomes a Christ figure by ultimately having to embrace death to call the Joker's bluff.
Why waste time reading pseudoscientific jargon when wiser people wrote what Jung tried to explain more concisely, poetically and understandably hundreds of years before.
Jordan Peterson's various explanations are generally sufficient. Also being exposed to a lot of Peterson makes it easier to digest what would otherwise be contentious claims. The Undiscovered Self (with Symbols and the Interpretation of Dreams) was a fine read. It's two short essays cut together.
This is so refreshing. I always wanted to go deep into our cultures art, but our culture is such that all I found was sorta hyper literal virtue signaling intereptations even Marxist at times. I can't think of the youtube channel I used to binge off hand ( i just remember it was called Cracked), but I remember always coming away feeling guilty for loving pop culture. For example I remember they talked about how Batman was the bad gay, and makes everything worse via collateral dmg. Also that he's a neo-liberal fantasy, of the rich philanthropist, who saves the world. I left their interpretations feeling that by liking a piece of my culture, I was participating or indoctrinated in exploitation. But when you describe art in timeless patterns away from ideology, and current events, I feel like I'm participating in something fundamentally human. And because these patterns are universal, it helps me to see them myself, in music and art. Anyways, I'm not a patron, I should be, you help me see my life in a little bit of a richer way. Thank you.
Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman puts on not the other way around. You can see it when he talks to Alfred (literally unmasked) he is still Batman and when he goes out with friends/business people he puts on the playboy/boss mask
this was epic "a layer of death to protect yourself from death" also, do you think the original writer of batman knew all of this symbolism consciously? because if so, they're genius
Ya know I don’t think they do. One of the examples I like to use is how Star Wars the first movie and Harry Potter almost map out onto eachother perfect. Now if you’ve never heard this when it’s talked about it’s said almost humorously or like JK Rowling ripped off the story but I think in fact she’s a genius and the patterns of symbolism manifest themselves in these patterns for a reason if even the reasons are not conscious
Nice shirt bro. The Nolan series (at least in Begins) really dramatized how Bruce changed his voice to fit his new persona. At first I didn't like how his gruff new persona was, but in hindsight, it makes sense that it was a little awkward at first. Bruce was trying out his dead skins for the first time, and his gruff voice in the batsuit seems more natural over the course of the DK trilogy.
@@JonathanPageau Greetings from Romania! Apart from Mircea Eliade and Jung, what other authors explain biblical symbolism, as you explained in this video or in the one about the two bears that kill the 42 children...? (preferably authors who may also be translated into Romanian). Thank you!
I'm just a blue collar guy that has toyed with Jungian archetypes in the past. Your channel is very well done and helps stimulate my thoughts to deeper ponderings and some "aha" moments while contemplating my theological and cultural traditions.
Interesting perspective! I'm not religious or spiritual but the Bible has certainly influenced literature, and this was a well done analysis of one of the many archetypical elements that causes this character to endure and resonate with people. You've revealed a new potential layer to the Bat-myth.
Could possibly do more on Batman? I've always thought Batman is one of the best modern mythologies and this analaysis confirms that. I'd like to see you go into detail concern his villians, particularly his relationship with The Joker.
Excellent video, I love your commentary on pop culture! Especially your idea of fighting death by supplementing yourself with (smaller) deaths, which lends itself to an idea of a spiral between life and death in which death contains life (because animal skins provide protection) and life contains death (because to live you must fight). Keep up the great work!
Recently found your channel and I am amazed by the content! I am leaving a suggestion of something I would love to see a review of yours, the animated series Avatar the Last Airbender or Legend of Korra. Being a show embedded in eastern culture but done by westerners, plus the first (AtlA) is very well developed, from the story arch and the characters, but I suspect you could find a lot more hidden between all the symbology, mainly the aspect of bending arts, which the people of that world are capable of dominating the four classical elements (air, water, earth, fire) and the Avatar being a sort of Logos figure being able to control all four elements at once. I do not have money atm, but I would love to help donate for this show review and to support you, either way, thanks and looking forward to more of your work! God bless ya!
It never ceases to amaze me how stuck the millenials are on superheros. My 23 yr old son was NUTS over batman as a kid, and still is. Cool interpretation. I’ll share with him! ❤️ Love ya!
I'm a Batman Fan in the true sense of the root word, and I also arrived there through Frank Miller's The Dark Knight. I love that comic. I think your analysis makes a lot of sense and plays a significant role in my fandom. I drawn very strongly to archetypal stories, especially those that follow the Biblical stories, even when I thought i was an atheist it seems.
No shortage of Symbolism in Batman. The fiction tends to have more than other established superheroes making for many valid explorations of the character and his world. My personal meditation on Batman's been going on twenty years or so and shows no signs of slowing down!
Very interesting! You should do an analysis on the original ghostbusters! I think there is very interesting parallels between batman and the ghostbusters, and how these figures represent ultimately a tramshumanist hope in overcoming death.
What do you think of the idea that Wayne Manor also covers the cave and Bruce masks Batman. It works both ways. The "insufficiency" is a countervailing force against evil or the excesses of "sufficiency". Knowing when to manifest each personae in order to engage properly in the world is the trick. Neither the paradisal state or nor pariah status are ultimately desirable. To live is to navigate between states.
At 7:00 I do think your idea about the animal skins and Adam and Eve is interesting, I don't think that was really the symbolic purpose of the batsuit. Though this has similarities to Adam and Eve's fall, there is one big difference. Bruce becomes a hero while Adam and Eve toil as punishment for waking up to reality. Batman is more akin to Marduk the Babylonian god when he faced his grandmother Tiamat, who was pure chaos. Bruce's time with the league of shadows alludes to Marduks training under the elder gods, they refine him, like with Bruce, they give him powerful weapons, like with Bruce, and the gift Marduk the word to make reality anew, as Bruce is given when he returns to Gotham after his training with the league. When Marduk assembled his weapons to face Tiamat and her armies, one interesting thing stated was that he garbed himself in terror. The same as Bruce, who garbs himself in terror every night in the form of the batsuit, and faces the armies of chaos to create a new world.
Batman is not a true hero. He is broken. He helps out of guilt. His intentions are not pure. He is really trying to save him self. He id a lost soul.... Now Superman is a true hero...
Hi Jonathan. Interesting! So once upon a time ago I was part of the Christian Reformed church and went to a reformed college. We had a practice of discerning most art through the lens of the fall. Every story has a creation, a fall and a redemption. It was therefore our duty as Christians to redeem that which is fallen and the best art reflects this. We actually covered The Dark Knight in a literature class. Interesting to compare to this!
The opening scene of Batman Begins is a retelling of the garden of Eden. The boy takes an arrow head (instrument of power and death) from the girl and when he does, he falls into hell and tormented by bats, Demon like creatures. Over the course of the three movies He does battle with fear, chaos, and oppression. In the dark knight rises he is redeemed as he climbs out of the prison, finishes the work of saving the city and finds happiness and peace.
My best friend growing up always liked Superman while I liked Batman. I found Batman to be more relatable. Maybe what you explain here was part of the unconscious reason?
The alley is serpentine, because serpentine things slither and are somewhat shapeless, but also the serpent has its roots in Yamm and Tiamat, and the sea (Yamm _is_ the sea, Tiamat rides or rules it) is shapeless, as well as the raw stuff from which form comes, and the differentiations that make the world "be" at all.
Gotham, the back story to Batman, is quite a good series with interesting story lines, characters and issues. One of the most fascinating is Penguin. Perhaps you'd like to comment on this series, Jonathan. Always glad to hear what you have to say.
I always thought of Batman as an analogy for government (or the justified use of violence to create order). So this interpretation makes a lot of sense to me, religion and government being essentially the same thing imo - usually trying to get us back to Eden. I'm surprised you didn't talk about flood narratives or Sodom and Gamora regarding Ra's al Ghul. But one personification of human society at a time I suppose. Enjoyed this.
Mike C. I beg to differ. I see Batman as an anti-hero, vigilante justice rebel, not a close match with government. For me , he represents alternative forms of justice and protection that transcend the traditional and conventional, which have failed us. The Gotham Police dept cannot handle the situation, so Batman must swing into action. I see shades of Christ at His return (which I believe is an ongoing spiritual event), in that He pretty much answers to no one but His Conscience (The Father) and returns to kick butt and set things straight. Just another perspective.
thenowchurch Agreed. Batman is anti-government and anti-authority when the system is failing. Part of the reason he does what he does is because the authorities weren’t saving and protecting the populace as they swore to do.
I'd love to see you analyze both Princess Mononoke and Naruto (this one is a stretch I know ^^). And I'd like your opinion on René Girard and his ideas if you have read him. He is a tough read, but damn, the insight just keeps coming, and everything is so "primordial", and so fitting.
I kid you not...... I totally have an incredibly similar shirt. (kind of also have the same approach to hair style) that shirt is my favorite. I lost that shirt because of beer. (it's ok, I know where it is and can get it back)
Great video, now for men and women who don't have an eve, a God, or a Bruce Wayne like experience with his family, how can they embody this narrative to receive the benefits from it? Just watching this video is enough? When you experience this realization of nakedness and the frantic urge to cover or compensate, it can be empowering, I know I've lived it and tasted the bitter fruit of experience.
@jonathan I always wonder how aware the creators of the stories are of their archetypal significance. Batman, Lord of the rings, Harry Potter etc. Is it something channelled through us or carefully constructed?
I see a similar comparison between A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones, but it wouldn’t work super well with the family who takes the Rose as their sigil. Flowers aren’t part of the animal kingdom exactly.
@LaVerdadEsMuyCatólica unless it doesn’t point to taking care of the poor and widows, I don’t think you can accuse something of being unchristian. The Dark Knight would be countered with a white mage, or the existence of these classes in Final Fantasy XIV. If a man putting on the skins and working the land to cover up his insufficiency will help him do penance, a woman has to take on the nature that abounds around her in order to give birth to a new generation.
Does covering ourselves in death protect us from death, or does it protect us from life and light so intense that it would destroy us without a transformation on our part?
Have you ever considered the snake as symbolic of language in general? The letter 's' can convey either possession or multiplicity. That's slippery indeed. Perhaps the letter 's', the symbolic snake and the spells we use to communicate with are all related to the knowledge of good and evil?
First I would like to say thank you.. I feel people like you self, along with JB and Paul Vanderklay(pastor ) give me away of accessing Christianity. Not because I am Christian but because I come from a country steeped in Christian history. It allows me to access and appreciate, understanding and value where I come from in terms I can relate to. I would also like to thank you on suggesting you brothers book. Still half way through but good read. Also I am learning Chinese. Not the writing, yet. But I am thinking a head and how with a symbolic language it relates to some of the symbolic structure your brother has shown. Though there is cultural differences
My mind just imploded, well done! Also, I think everyone who likes this video should check Bishop Robert Barron's review of The Dark Knight, it has a very insightful take on the movie.
This has interesting implications for Nick Cannon's recent controversial comments. Jonathan Pageau is saying as humans we're functioning from a consciousness of nakedness and lack. That's kind of what NC attributed to certain people, saying they could only act evil and savage because of their incompleteness and vulnerability. Anyone know if Jonathan Pageau has talked about the NC comments yet?
Can you please address how Eve (and Adam by extension) voluntarily accepts the fruit from the tree of knowledge under the influence of the snake, parallel to the bruce wayne story?
Good morning! I woke up this morning and started drawing and had the thought, "Does the act of eve eating the fruit and listening to the serpent and then adam doing the same, parralel with Bruce's mom seeing bruce scared face and suggesting they leave the theatre, and his Father agreeing and allowing for it which brings them out into chaos. And could it have something to do with, like, how the fruits color and Bruce's fearfulness are both externals that lead to "the fall"? wherby after eve and Bruce's mother made suggestions of the particulars the men should have had looked beyond the externals or realized what was best in the long term?Listened to God maybe? Im not sure. Could it be something with like, feminine looking at the particulars, and male looking at the more general, or overarching picture so to speak?". Thank you, and I appreciate the video
You're wrong about Bruce choosing the bat because of "darkness against darkness". Bruce Wayne has the strongest willpower of any DC character which would make him an excellent candidate for being a Green Lantern. However, one can only become a Green Lantern if one is fearless. Bruce Wayne is not fearless. Bruce Wayne has a CRIPPLING PHOBIA of bats. Always has and always will. This is why he dresses as a bat. He uses his weakest aspect of him as his strongest armor. It's about overcoming fear and becoming literally the only invincible character in the DC Universe.
Okay, how about the symbolism in Zack Snyder movies from Dawn of the Dead all the way to Batman v Superman. ( No Justice League doesnt count as a Snyder movie cause that version has another director's vision mixed in ).
This video was edited by Thomas Wijnaendts of the Storytellers channel. Tell me what you think of this new partnership and check out his channel. ua-cam.com/channels/bphDfwSJmxk1Ny_3Oicrng.html
Good idea.
very nice
What a great idea. It really brought the video to another level, made it feel much more engaging, especially with the music and the way it was edited.
Such a fantastic video Jonathan! I just bought Matthieu’s book and can’t wait to read it
Thank you Jonathan, it was my pleasure! - Thomas
And my axe...
I had been dreaming about this sort of content for the last three odd years. Absolutely gorgeous.
The collaboration is right on the money.
" Batman is an archtype of our indomitable will to over come the darkness within side ourselves"
Grant Morrison.
"My desire drives me to eat a burger."
- Me
I'd love a conversation between Pageau and Morrison.
"A layer of death" - Now this is why I subscribed.
Whenever I watch your videos I seem to discover that what you are explaining is something that I already knew, but could not fully articulate within my mind.
Content like this is what I come to UA-cam for! Thank you.
I never thought that Adam and Eve and Batman could intersect :)
You just made Batman a whole lot more awesome.
Mr. Pageau, it's very helpful and instructive that you draw a lot from modern pop culture in your lessons. I see your videos mostly as mythology explained though pop culture, but many people are also seeking to understand pop culture and as such gets drawn back towards the mythology. One movie that always stuck with me is 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) by Stanley Kubrick. It's the deepest movie I've ever seen (without being too vague or incomprehensible). It drew me into reading the Bible very carefully. It's starting to make sense if you analyze it with concepts from Genesis, especially the fall of man and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It would be interesting to hear your take on it.
I'm pretty sure that 2001 shaped my childhood in a manner where I grew up to like content like Pageau's. My dad wasn't always there, but by golly, he wanted us to see good film.
I would like to see the basement under the basement of 2001 symbolically. (or just the orthodox guy's interpretation)
I second this. Jonathan, please do an interpretation of 2001. :-)
After I watched that movie I cried and shook for 30 minutes
Bravo!! Great video!! Great (and important) examination! Thank you!
Good video! Something I think you touched on as well - both Adam and Eve and Bruce Wayne were launched directly into not just knowledge, but experiential knowledge of good and evil. Once they have entered the realm of experiential knowledge, they try to put the world back together again, but can only do so partially. Adam and Eve can try to put together a version of Eden, but it's broken and incomplete. Adam toils with weeds in the attempt to grow things that just existed in the garden. Eve contends with pain and suffering to bring life into a world now filled with death. Despite their efforts, they can only mingle life into this world of death. Similarly, Bruce Wayne attempts to put together the just world of his innocent childhood\ by trying to solve his parents murder, then by bringing criminals to justice. Despite his efforts to make the world just, he can only mingle some justice into a world of injustice, and ultimately needs to deal with the injustice that he himself creates.
The production is great and your enthusiasm really makes this stuff engaging; keen to see more!
I am sooo appreciative that you didn't necessarily take a side on who has created the ultimate iteration of the Batman myth but instead delve into why the myth itself can still capture human imagination after so many decades since it's inception, pun intended. Thank you.
Fantastic content Jonathan! This is a high quality piece.
The Batman comic reboot by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo have added some layers to the story that you might find interesting. Particularly the relationship between Joker and Batman. It toys with questions of eternal life and Batman becomes a Christ figure by ultimately having to embrace death to call the Joker's bluff.
Very cool Mr. Pageau😎
Jonathan Pageau, the Robert Langdon of UA-cam! :)
I am so happy there are UA-cam channels like this. Thanks for your wonderful content!
If Jonathan read Jung he'd probably create a blackhole in psychic reality so it's for the best
such a loss that he doesn't do it
Why waste time reading pseudoscientific jargon when wiser people wrote what Jung tried to explain more concisely, poetically and understandably hundreds of years before.
Seems more like a frustrated a-priori bias than an actually summation of a stance
A1R Can you give me some recommendations? Really fascinated by these topics but Jung does seem quite impenetrable
Jordan Peterson's various explanations are generally sufficient. Also being exposed to a lot of Peterson makes it easier to digest what would otherwise be contentious claims. The Undiscovered Self (with Symbols and the Interpretation of Dreams) was a fine read. It's two short essays cut together.
Great analysis. The work your doing is necessary and important! Good work.
Mind blowing! What an honour to receive this great wisdom.
Awesome! Thank you and you did not disappoint.
mind blown! thank you Jonathan! keep it up!
This is so refreshing. I always wanted to go deep into our cultures art, but our culture is such that all I found was sorta hyper literal virtue signaling intereptations even Marxist at times.
I can't think of the youtube channel I used to binge off hand ( i just remember it was called Cracked), but I remember always coming away feeling guilty for loving pop culture. For example I remember they talked about how Batman was the bad gay, and makes everything worse via collateral dmg. Also that he's a neo-liberal fantasy, of the rich philanthropist, who saves the world. I left their interpretations feeling that by liking a piece of my culture, I was participating or indoctrinated in exploitation.
But when you describe art in timeless patterns away from ideology, and current events, I feel like I'm participating in something fundamentally human. And because these patterns are universal, it helps me to see them myself, in music and art.
Anyways, I'm not a patron, I should be, you help me see my life in a little bit of a richer way. Thank you.
Well said!
I had a similar experience. Thank you for putting this comment out there. It feels good to know others have had a similar experience.
Thank you so much Mr. Pageau. I was hoping you'd make a video on Batman.
Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman puts on not the other way around. You can see it when he talks to Alfred (literally unmasked) he is still Batman and when he goes out with friends/business people he puts on the playboy/boss mask
Amazing video, now it all makes sense...
this was epic
"a layer of death to protect yourself from death"
also, do you think the original writer of batman knew all of this symbolism consciously? because if so, they're genius
Ya know I don’t think they do. One of the examples I like to use is how Star Wars the first movie and Harry Potter almost map out onto eachother perfect. Now if you’ve never heard this when it’s talked about it’s said almost humorously or like JK Rowling ripped off the story but I think in fact she’s a genius and the patterns of symbolism manifest themselves in these patterns for a reason if even the reasons are not conscious
Symbolism happens
Wow, truly superb video. Hope you keep it up!
As a theological student I find your videos fascinating :) Thank you for sharing your ideas with us!
Gonna rewatch this many times.
Nice shirt bro. The Nolan series (at least in Begins) really dramatized how Bruce changed his voice to fit his new persona. At first I didn't like how his gruff new persona was, but in hindsight, it makes sense that it was a little awkward at first. Bruce was trying out his dead skins for the first time, and his gruff voice in the batsuit seems more natural over the course of the DK trilogy.
You have to wear black when making a batman video.
Jonathan Pageau I was afraid you were gonna wear fig leaves... 😉
@@JonathanPageau Greetings from Romania! Apart from Mircea Eliade and Jung, what other authors explain biblical symbolism, as you explained in this video or in the one about the two bears that kill the 42 children...? (preferably authors who may also be translated into Romanian). Thank you!
JUST WOW i loved this one!
Well that explains why Batman is my favorite comic book character.
Awesome- i love that this exists. Great artist!
"This corruption, which is death itself" I knew this to be true, but hadn't heard it articulated so succinctly. Thank you for your profound insight.
Your videos are a fun watch.
And the Nativity is said to have been in a cave. Chesterton's the God in the Cave is great reading here. Thank you Jonathan
I'm just a blue collar guy that has toyed with Jungian archetypes in the past. Your channel is very well done and helps stimulate my thoughts to deeper ponderings and some "aha" moments while contemplating my theological and cultural traditions.
Not to mention his main enemy is a clown the ultimate symbol of the world turned upside down
I’m a big fan of the film Batman vs Superman. Most people hated it but I found the story very archetypal and topical. I’d love to hear your take.
I can also see a parallel when you mention the turning darkness against darkness with St. Christopher and using the margins against the margins.
Interesting perspective! I'm not religious or spiritual but the Bible has certainly influenced literature, and this was a well done analysis of one of the many archetypical elements that causes this character to endure and resonate with people. You've revealed a new potential layer to the Bat-myth.
Could possibly do more on Batman? I've always thought Batman is one of the best modern mythologies and this analaysis confirms that. I'd like to see you go into detail concern his villians, particularly his relationship with The Joker.
Excellent video, I love your commentary on pop culture! Especially your idea of fighting death by supplementing yourself with (smaller) deaths, which lends itself to an idea of a spiral between life and death in which death contains life (because animal skins provide protection) and life contains death (because to live you must fight). Keep up the great work!
Recently found your channel and I am amazed by the content! I am leaving a suggestion of something I would love to see a review of yours, the animated series Avatar the Last Airbender or Legend of Korra. Being a show embedded in eastern culture but done by westerners, plus the first (AtlA) is very well developed, from the story arch and the characters, but I suspect you could find a lot more hidden between all the symbology, mainly the aspect of bending arts, which the people of that world are capable of dominating the four classical elements (air, water, earth, fire) and the Avatar being a sort of Logos figure being able to control all four elements at once. I do not have money atm, but I would love to help donate for this show review and to support you, either way, thanks and looking forward to more of your work! God bless ya!
It never ceases to amaze me how stuck the millenials are on superheros. My 23 yr old son was NUTS over batman as a kid, and still is. Cool interpretation. I’ll share with him! ❤️ Love ya!
I'm a Batman Fan in the true sense of the root word, and I also arrived there through Frank Miller's The Dark Knight. I love that comic.
I think your analysis makes a lot of sense and plays a significant role in my fandom. I drawn very strongly to archetypal stories, especially those that follow the Biblical stories, even when I thought i was an atheist it seems.
Thought it was a bit of a stretch, the snake and the alley especially
Batman is a literal embodiment of the shadow spiritually and physically.
Just Awesome!
God: "do you feel in charge"
No shortage of Symbolism in Batman. The fiction tends to have more than other established superheroes making for many valid explorations of the character and his world. My personal meditation on Batman's been going on twenty years or so and shows no signs of slowing down!
you talked about alleys. I love alleys.
Very interesting! You should do an analysis on the original ghostbusters! I think there is very interesting parallels between batman and the ghostbusters, and how these figures represent ultimately a tramshumanist hope in overcoming death.
What do you think of the idea that Wayne Manor also covers the cave and Bruce masks Batman. It works both ways. The "insufficiency" is a countervailing force against evil or the excesses of "sufficiency". Knowing when to manifest each personae in order to engage properly in the world is the trick. Neither the paradisal state or nor pariah status are ultimately desirable. To live is to navigate between states.
At 7:00 I do think your idea about the animal skins and Adam and Eve is interesting, I don't think that was really the symbolic purpose of the batsuit. Though this has similarities to Adam and Eve's fall, there is one big difference. Bruce becomes a hero while Adam and Eve toil as punishment for waking up to reality. Batman is more akin to Marduk the Babylonian god when he faced his grandmother Tiamat, who was pure chaos. Bruce's time with the league of shadows alludes to Marduks training under the elder gods, they refine him, like with Bruce, they give him powerful weapons, like with Bruce, and the gift Marduk the word to make reality anew, as Bruce is given when he returns to Gotham after his training with the league. When Marduk assembled his weapons to face Tiamat and her armies, one interesting thing stated was that he garbed himself in terror. The same as Bruce, who garbs himself in terror every night in the form of the batsuit, and faces the armies of chaos to create a new world.
Batman is not a true hero. He is broken. He helps out of guilt. His intentions are not pure. He is really trying to save him self. He id a lost soul....
Now Superman is a true hero...
@@mosesgarcia9443 Superman and Batman are brothers, two sides of the same coin.
exactly. Thank you.
Johnathan, you really should take a look into HBO'S Westworld, especially season 3. I think you may find the symbolism quite interesting.
Studies are awesome
Hi Jonathan. Interesting! So once upon a time ago I was part of the Christian Reformed church and went to a reformed college. We had a practice of discerning most art through the lens of the fall. Every story has a creation, a fall and a redemption. It was therefore our duty as Christians to redeem that which is fallen and the best art reflects this. We actually covered The Dark Knight in a literature class. Interesting to compare to this!
Great as always, Jonathan! Could you do the horror film The VVitch? It shocked me theologically
Can somebody put a trap beat to his intro?😁👌
The opening scene of Batman Begins is a retelling of the garden of Eden. The boy takes an arrow head (instrument of power and death) from the girl and when he does, he falls into hell and tormented by bats, Demon like creatures. Over the course of the three movies He does battle with fear, chaos, and oppression. In the dark knight rises he is redeemed as he climbs out of the prison, finishes the work of saving the city and finds happiness and peace.
My best friend growing up always liked Superman while I liked Batman. I found Batman to be more relatable. Maybe what you explain here was part of the unconscious reason?
The alley is serpentine, because serpentine things slither and are somewhat shapeless, but also the serpent has its roots in Yamm and Tiamat, and the sea (Yamm _is_ the sea, Tiamat rides or rules it) is shapeless, as well as the raw stuff from which form comes, and the differentiations that make the world "be" at all.
Batman v. Superman: The Gargoyle fights the pit for fearing the pit could turn against the whole church.
Thats one story.
Please do a video on Contact (1997). There’s something more than what’s on the surface but I‘m unsure.
He embodies the monster(that he feared) to fight monsters
Gotham, the back story to Batman, is quite a good series with interesting story lines, characters and issues. One of the most fascinating is Penguin. Perhaps you'd like to comment on this series, Jonathan. Always glad to hear what you have to say.
I always thought of Batman as an analogy for government (or the justified use of violence to create order). So this interpretation makes a lot of sense to me, religion and government being essentially the same thing imo - usually trying to get us back to Eden.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about flood narratives or Sodom and Gamora regarding Ra's al Ghul. But one personification of human society at a time I suppose.
Enjoyed this.
Mike C.
I beg to differ.
I see Batman as an anti-hero, vigilante justice rebel, not a close match with government.
For me , he represents alternative forms of justice and protection that transcend the traditional and conventional, which have failed us.
The Gotham Police dept cannot handle the situation, so Batman must swing into action.
I see shades of Christ at His return (which I believe is an ongoing spiritual event), in that He pretty much answers to no one but His Conscience (The Father) and returns to kick butt and set things straight.
Just another perspective.
thenowchurch
Agreed. Batman is anti-government and anti-authority when the system is failing. Part of the reason he does what he does is because the authorities weren’t saving and protecting the populace as they swore to do.
Remember Homer, when you see Fox Searchlights, it's time to watch Independence Day again.
I'd love to see you analyze both Princess Mononoke and Naruto (this one is a stretch I know ^^). And I'd like your opinion on René Girard and his ideas if you have read him. He is a tough read, but damn, the insight just keeps coming, and everything is so "primordial", and so fitting.
Would love to see you do an analysis of Who Framed Roger Rabbit!
I kid you not...... I totally have an incredibly similar shirt. (kind of also have the same approach to hair style) that shirt is my favorite. I lost that shirt because of beer. (it's ok, I know where it is and can get it back)
What's the intro music? it's terrific
Great video, now for men and women who don't have an eve, a God, or a Bruce Wayne like experience with his family, how can they embody this narrative to receive the benefits from it? Just watching this video is enough? When you experience this realization of nakedness and the frantic urge to cover or compensate, it can be empowering, I know I've lived it and tasted the bitter fruit of experience.
@jonathan I always wonder how aware the creators of the stories are of their archetypal significance. Batman, Lord of the rings, Harry Potter etc. Is it something channelled through us or carefully constructed?
I see a similar comparison between A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones, but it wouldn’t work super well with the family who takes the Rose as their sigil. Flowers aren’t part of the animal kingdom exactly.
@LaVerdadEsMuyCatólica unless it doesn’t point to taking care of the poor and widows, I don’t think you can accuse something of being unchristian. The Dark Knight would be countered with a white mage, or the existence of these classes in Final Fantasy XIV. If a man putting on the skins and working the land to cover up his insufficiency will help him do penance, a woman has to take on the nature that abounds around her in order to give birth to a new generation.
Does covering ourselves in death protect us from death, or does it protect us from life and light so intense that it would destroy us without a transformation on our part?
Was wondering if you seen Aquaman? It would be interesting to see your take on that.
Have you ever considered the snake as symbolic of language in general? The letter 's' can convey either possession or multiplicity. That's slippery indeed. Perhaps the letter 's', the symbolic snake and the spells we use to communicate with are all related to the knowledge of good and evil?
First I would like to say thank you.. I feel people like you self, along with JB and Paul Vanderklay(pastor ) give me away of accessing Christianity. Not because I am Christian but because I come from a country steeped in Christian history. It allows me to access and appreciate, understanding and value where I come from in terms I can relate to. I would also like to thank you on suggesting you brothers book. Still half way through but good read. Also I am learning Chinese. Not the writing, yet. But I am thinking a head and how with a symbolic language it relates to some of the symbolic structure your brother has shown. Though there is cultural differences
My mind just imploded, well done!
Also, I think everyone who likes this video should check Bishop Robert Barron's review of The Dark Knight, it has a very insightful take on the movie.
anyone have any idea which batman comic is this from? 6:07
I'm BATMAN....
What is the intro music please ?
SP SH could be hans zimmer's batman soundtrack
Oh, I thought he was talking about the intro video before the channel intro
Yeah, Russian Easter Festival Overture by Rimsky-Korsakov
You can find more versions if you search in Russian "Римский-Корсаков - Светлый праздник"
Thanks a lot :) !
This has interesting implications for Nick Cannon's recent controversial comments. Jonathan Pageau is saying as humans we're functioning from a consciousness of nakedness and lack. That's kind of what NC attributed to certain people, saying they could only act evil and savage because of their incompleteness and vulnerability. Anyone know if Jonathan Pageau has talked about the NC comments yet?
Can you please address how Eve (and Adam by extension) voluntarily accepts the fruit from the tree of knowledge under the influence of the snake, parallel to the bruce wayne story?
THe inner Harmony.............is the Symbolic World
Good morning! I woke up this morning and started drawing and had the thought, "Does the act of eve eating the fruit and listening to the serpent and then adam doing the same, parralel with Bruce's mom seeing bruce scared face and suggesting they leave the theatre, and his Father agreeing and allowing for it which brings them out into chaos. And could it have something to do with, like, how the fruits color and Bruce's fearfulness are both externals that lead to "the fall"? wherby after eve and Bruce's mother made suggestions of the particulars the men should have had looked beyond the externals or realized what was best in the long term?Listened to God maybe? Im not sure. Could it be something with like, feminine looking at the particulars, and male looking at the more general, or overarching picture so to speak?".
Thank you, and I appreciate the video
You're wrong about Bruce choosing the bat because of "darkness against darkness". Bruce Wayne has the strongest willpower of any DC character which would make him an excellent candidate for being a Green Lantern. However, one can only become a Green Lantern if one is fearless. Bruce Wayne is not fearless. Bruce Wayne has a CRIPPLING PHOBIA of bats. Always has and always will.
This is why he dresses as a bat. He uses his weakest aspect of him as his strongest armor. It's about overcoming fear and becoming literally the only invincible character in the DC Universe.
Dark Knight of the soul
Could you please make a video about mary?
In The Dark Knight, Harvey Dent is Adam, The Joker is the Serpent and Batman is Jesus.
Batman V Superman may have been a better reference point for Batman as an Adam figure.
ua-cam.com/video/lIib2zK7nxY/v-deo.html
The more apt term would be Antichrist
Antichrist means opposed to Christ not False Christ.
Breaking news: God sues DC for plagiarism.
Okay, how about the symbolism in Zack Snyder movies from Dawn of the Dead all the way to Batman v Superman. ( No Justice League doesnt count as a Snyder movie cause that version has another director's vision mixed in ).
I am adam!
5:14 - could we say an alley is the remainder?
One can find meaning and symbolism in everything.
Xeronimo74 lol. I know. I think I should make a video showing how The Hangover resembles Noah and the Ark.
Yes, still that doesn't explain how people from different times and cultures found very similar patterns of meaning and symbolism.
Haha, yeah, well Noah got drunk and naked after the flood, right? :D
So if clothing is a consequence of the fall why are angels depicted with clothes?
Garments of light. See my video on garments of skin, garments of light.