What I am thinking is Salome is Solomon. The Somali are E1b1b V32 which is a "Son" (subclad) of E1b1b V12. E1b1b V13 is a separate branch and we known from myth that they are Sons of Kush, Sons of Nimrod (Nebu). Nebu and Nubian likely reference the same and they likely derive from Negus which means "king" and is also the origin for Negroes. King Pepi I sent Uni against the Negus of Yam which was translated to "Negroes" but they were also called as the "Asiatic sand dwellers" which is also a dubious translation of pre"Asia" writing. The first invasion of the serpent of the East Ishar (Ishtar) is likely dated at the reign of Djoser and Imhotep. When you see the Famine Stela of Sehel the engraved image is Genesis 18 and a few other references too. Imhotep is MeHoKek who is Moses but the Famine Stela is repeated with joseph and i haven't figured out why It may be to reinstall Ishtar (Sarai) as the reward is a wife. Nebtu (The feminine of Nebu) is also associated with Khnum “During the New Kingdom Khnum was worshiped there as head of a triad with his wife Satet and his daughter Anuket. He was also worshipped at Esna (Iunyt) where he was thought to be married to both Menhet and Nebtu (a local goddess) and to be the father of Heka (god of magic known as "He Who Activates the Ka"). He was also thought to be the husband of Neith at Esna. In Antinoe (Her-wer) he was married to Heqet, the frog goddess associated with childbirth and conception. He was associated with Her-shef at Herakleopolis Magna, and was often linked to Osiris. He was sometimes associated with Isis to represent the Upper Egypt, just as Ptah-Tanen was associated with Nepthys in representing Lower Egypt.” In the Hymn “The diverse forms of Khnum”, he is identified with many other gods in various locations. In "First-of-towns", Khnum is “Ba-of-Re”. At Lunyt he is Ba-of-Shu at. In Shas-hotep he is “Ba-of-Osiris” In Herwer he is “Ba-of-Geb” and he is Horus-Metenu in Semenhor. He changes his from to Lord-of-the-booth (Anubis) to wrap Osiris at the place of embalmment - to guard Osiris on his right side to save him from the water by his twins and to guard the King on his left side, everlasting. Suwadjebu of Pi-Neter. Senusret III, 5th King of the 12th Dynasty (cir. 1878-1839BC) thought of him as a warrior god protecting the country, Khnum, binder of the (Nine) Bows, smiter of the Shasu” The City of Akhmim In the Christian Coptic era, Akhmim was written in Shahidic Coptic: Ϣⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲙ Shmin/Kmin/Kmim but was probably pronounced locally something like Khmin or Khmim. Wikipedia Says: “Akhmim (Arabic: أخميم, pronounced [ʔæxˈmiːm]; from Egyptian: Khent-min ; Sahidic Coptic: Ϣⲙⲓⲛ Shmin) is a city in the Sohag Governorate of Upper Egypt. Referred to by the ancient Greeks as Khemmis, Chemmis and Panopolis, it is located on the east bank of the Nile, 4 miles to the northeast of Sohag” Wikipedia, “Akhmim”, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhmim, In other words, what you just read is Ahkhmim, Ϣⲙⲓⲛ, Ⲭⲙⲓⲛ, Ⲭⲙⲓ, Khmin, Khmim, Shmin, Kmim, Khent-min, Khemmis, Chemmis and Panopolis refer to the same place and have the same meaning. What did the Pharaoh name Joseph?
This was really fascinating to me and very much in alignment with the Petersonian theories about a structuralism or givenness behind meaning even in what seemed like erroneous confusions behind Moses' horns/glory. I've looked into the horns/glory thing before and it is interesting. Yours is the first time I've seen someone connect horns, glory, crown. People would easily connect crown and glory. We would connect the glory of an elk's rack with glory. Is there something deeply built into us that makes what we have always dismissed as "confusion" actually more like some fuzzy association? Fascinating stuff. Thanks Jonathan.
Paul VanderKlay - The "Horns" of MeHoKek which they originally are, connect to Khnum at the First Cataract of the Nile and the flood. Khnum is derived from Khem+Nu and the Ogdoad is of Khemenu. Kekistan, the Land of Keki , stretches from Khemenu to the Isle of Abu called Yehu but also Elephantine This is the Cosmic Mound of Reeee called AbuRaHam where he brought his wife Sarai Kek is the LIGHT, the first mystery and the LAST Gospel of the Egyptians and Pisitis Sophia too Heaven is Shomayim which is Khemenu Kek (the LIGHT) + Heh (Infinity)=Khem (Hm) The Watery Abyss, the flood is called NU The 12th city of the 12th gate in the 12th Hour of the Book of the Gates is called Kekui MeHoKek is the lawgiver of the Famine Stela of Sehel IF you have been chosen, it is because you are Y DNA E1b1b V12 or V13 Jebu Nebu Kekistani Sons of Kekistani and AbuRaKhem The Prophecy of Kek is real Kek is the LIGHT, the First Mystery and the LAST Who is King Gudea and who is Nebu Chad Asar? Who is Gilgamesh and Enkidu and Ishtar too? Who is Salome, Mother of the Sons of Thunder and Zavad. Kekistan is the Land of Khnum (Khn n) called Canaan too The Land of the E1b1b V12 Jebu but the E1b1b V13 which I suspect you are, the sons of Kush, Chus and Zeus, the Nebu, Nibroth, Nembroth, Nimrod of Uruk (Iraq, Erech, Enoch, The Second Earth) The Jezebel has a starring role. Gilgamesh told Ishtar and Ishar too, I do NOT need a WIFE Especially at the Isle of Abu It was following the death of King Pepi II that the 70 Kings ruled for 70 days in the 7th dynasty King Pepi II was the Child of King Pepi, He who lives forever IF you are of the Blavantsy Sixth Subrace prophecy, you will be E1b1b Subclad V12 or V13 MeHoKek even had horns in Japan, a seafaring Son of Cham and Chus called Kronos, Misor, Kekrops, Dionysus was he. Khnum (Khn n) had a son named Sidon whose son was ALSO Eshmun. Eshmun's mom is the same as Khnum Her name is Hehut, Heket, Hathor, Hagar, NOT Sarai Ishar is Ishtar of the NEW place of Annunaki The so-called SECOND light of duality, the darkness of the serpent Kek+Heh=Khem (Hm) of Nu Hehut, Heket, Heqet, Hathor is the virginal mother Heh is the double helix of DNA Kek is the fish, frog and the LIGHT, the first mystery and the last This is the awakening of the E1b1b Jebu Nebu Kekistani And I saw Shomayim Chadashim and Eretz Chadasha, for the shomayim harishonah and haaretz harishonah passed away, and there is no longer any Yam. Rev 21 (OJB) Please read in entirety along with Chapter V Destruction of Mankind by Reee Book of Gates 12th city called Kekui No Longer any Yam? What about the Lady of Yamu? Where was Yam of the E1b1b V12 Jebu Kekistani? Who is the Lady of Yamu? Who are the Negus and the Nebus? Read Revelations 21 of the OJB www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hisgalus+21&version=OJB Gospel of the Egyptians, Pistis Sophia, Salome and her two sons Jacob and Yo Kanan The E1b1b are the Kekistani The garment of the light
I would like to take a moment to Thank you for helping clear up many concerns I have been having since being Baptized 2 years ago. I jumped in head first without limits for learning and following Christ, yet I continually felt at odds with the unexplained lessons being taught in church. I needed at least a few arrows in which to learn how to actually aim and yet, was only receiving the exact words I had heard my entire life, always with no explanation only, have Faith. I am nearly 60, and figured, since I'm not unintelligent and have done much earthly living, that understanding what is written before me, shouldn't be that difficult, yet it truly seemed to be. I asked questions and was told we are here to spread the good news. Agreed, yet no real explanation and to what the good news entailed. I began listening to Jordan Peterson, which Truly began my thirst for all Christ has to offer, I was in need and still an m. I absolutely adore Jordan Peterson. I listened to the two of you together and now I am hungry for True Knowledge. I have a long way to go and yet I can see The Light Shining. Thank you from every aspect of my life
Jonathan, this might be the most mind-blowing video of yours out there. Watched it a while ago but came back to it today, as I'm teaching on covering/atonement tomorrow. Seriously, so good.
I was thinking about crowns yesterday, before I watched your video. The crown's symbolism. You have it's golden (or other) quality, that which is of the highest value, and is placed on the highest point of that which it encompasses, the individual. Then you have the shine that emits from it, its "being" in the dark, "the realness", that which is enlightened and that which in turn enlightens. Kind of like the Christian halo in some interpretations. And then you have the shape, as sun rays emitting from the sun down onto the earth, the crown's rays shine upwards, reaching towards heaven, only cast solid, because everything material or worldly is limited in that sense, unlike the sun. The light of the mind, or soul, that is elevated and is reaching upwards. Pure intent. When you mentioned horns I had the same intimation. That horns, where there were none before, might be the authority of the mind that forcibly manifesting itself as pointing up towards the highest point. This "molding" of the body (corpus) from a will, takes place on man's imperfect material form fantastically, or grotesquely. Like when a tree's roots (to life) are exposed, the mind's roots become exposed. Maybe twisted horns are the manifestation of twisted intent?
After learning about symbolism and archetypes, whenever I watch movies and there's a logical inconsistency in a scene my first and only thought is "Doesn't matter. Nope. Doesn't matter." I'm here to watch archetypes not a factual transcript of logically coherent, tense events.
I love these kinds of videos. Even more than your movie interpretations. Thanks for this. I might have to start donating on patreon so I can vote. I'm also eagerly awaiting your brothers book. Any updates on that?
Did I hear the word Resurrection in this video? I think not, probably knowingly, though its presence is ubiquitous, and you seem to invite to connect the dots... 1 Corinthians 15: 35-55. I remember you suggested in another video that we should consider the deeper meaning of Resurrection, as there are hints in the Bible about it. I think here we're close, as we speak about garments of light and the glorified body. I love when you dive in theology, sacred symbolism and Patristics. You're truly blessed. Please, keep up the good work.
This is great. You should do an analysis of the symbolism of the Half-Life games. They're full of amazing symbolism. Gordon Freeman also releals the chaos of the outside world, by accidentally opening a portal to another dimension, the underworld and then has to confront it, he also has to use weapons that he takes from the creatures escaping from the underworld, so he kind of becomes the hybrid, the man at the limit. I could go on and on, but I bet you could extract more value from it than I can. My favorite game in the series is Half-Life 2 though. A lot of symbolism about ascending the mountain in that game.
The antagonist "big bads" are like giant maggots - they exert power by hacking together 'machines' out of the living inhabitants of their conquered worlds. They take life with potential and make it into programmable weapons. Dang.
Wonderful video as always! Just wanted to say that your videos have been really helpful. Currently taking courses on monastic/sacred art, and your videos always add to my understanding.
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Very helpful, thank you. One could also point to the priestly garments, especially the completely white linen garment that the High Priest has to wear when he enters the presence of God on Yom Kippur (a "reentering" of Eden): Everything has to be covered in white, except his face which has to be anointed by oil. Oil, as Psalm 104:15 formulates, makes the face shining. So, the priestly garment symbolizes the garments of light which then also will be given to the saints in the resurrection (Daniel 12:2-3; 1. Corinthians 15:40-49). Greetings from Switzerland, Benjamin
I'm following most of what you've been saying in your videos, and I really love what you're doing, but I am having a hard time snapping into the symbolic mindset. I guess I'll just keep watching!
This is great Jonathan, the whole death against death thing is amazing. Rings true with some of my distant ancestors, the Normans. Pagans of Viking background, marauders, who took up Christianity, and then became christendoms most powerful defenders against the foreign.
Yes, your perception is exactly right, both in the story of the Normans in Western Europe, but also the Scandinavians who became the Rus in the Eastern Emprire.
You mean as well the Varangian Guard of the Byzantines? Anna Komnenus gives a great depiction of why they were so valued. I remember a passage where she mentions how horrified the Greeks were as the Varangians chased after their foes, singing and laughing while they hacked them down; and yet in the treacherous world of the Byzantine court the Varangians never once broke their oath.
Mind blown! I’d never heard about Moses being depicted with horns. This begs the question about artistic depictions of Satan with horns. Any relation? Kinda creeps me out. Seriously, as you discussed the “mistranslation,” it fit right in with something I’ve always thought - that God has dominion over the words and He can make the translations work toward more understanding, if you get my meaning. At one point early in your talk, I had a very very brief sensation of ... what should I call it... enlightenment. More than understanding...
Paulette Daniels Satan is also an angel of light. But his light is pale and his horns are wild. He can only counterfeit, he is the adversary (satan), God is the only creator. God bless.
There's an idea that our popular image of Satan came about because of how the biblical Nimrod was seen in Babylonian tradition. Nimrod was a mighty hunter and wore the horns of slayed animals on his head as a symbol of his power. This developed into our notion of a crown (crown and horn come from the same IE root). Nimrod was also thought to have, in short, been a demon worshipper, hence his link to the Devil Read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.
"Light" is simply comprehension/knowledge/understanding.....leading to Wisdom. (Mastery; tho' WISDOM is often presented also as a being/person/entity....in the OT/NT as well) The ironic aspect of human language (words) is that it can either clarify/illuminate or confuse/convolute meaning(s), intent(ions) etc., as it attempts to facilitate/display TRUTH/Reality....per the limitations/skill set of both the Teller(s) and the listener(s). Thus, we witness one important aspect or exercise of life....discourse amongst mankind....with Truth/Reality/understanding always hanging in the balance thereof, per interpretation(s) & transference of said "discourse."
Would you consider a lecture-style long video which is a bit more academic in the sense that you provide quotations (including hebrew, Greek etc.) from scripture and theologians, and images to explore a topic? I really enjoyed the Symbolism of mountains/Moses video and the illustration helped put things together. Logos from eikon!
You should check the video called "Symbolism of the Tree". Also, I strongly recommend you this webpage where you can find Jonathan Pageau's articles: www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/
I've seen all his videos and yes this is another one that's good for what I was describing. It really helps to ground the concepts instead of seeming like an abstract modern theory of Christianity.
I always wondered if it was possible that the garments of skin that God gave man was mans actual skin. Skin by its nature is a protective barrier and Adam and Eve had no need of such protection. I guess I imagine them as being physically like angels emanating light and glory and without need for skin as we now have it.
The light/skin connection comes fron their Hebrew words being almost the same spelling and pronounced the same. Its a so-called word play, but one revealing an amazing truth.
I'm trying to understand I am understanding "Light" to being without a Vail.. Light being all good, righteous, being able to see and to speak with God.. Loving with No need for medicine.. Loving one another with no hate, no jealous, ext Garments being like a Vail place over them.. They no longer can see God or speak to God like they could befor disobeying Him.. If I have this wrong please let me know.
Thank you for another excellent talk. From a symbolic point of view this all makes a lot of sense because, as you articulate so well, the symbolic world is a world of meaning and not of scientific data. Perhaps it should be stressed though that people tend to get confused because they impose today's scientific view of history as a sort of newspaper report of an event on this symbolic story of the fall. Thus, from a scientific point of view our biological nature preceded humans by billions of years, in other words, we had a "layer of death," skin, hair, sexuality, and suffered death itself, way before we were fully human and this never actually ceased at any time in "real" history. The purpose and goal of the human being is to freely participate in the ultimate transformation of the cosmos in Christ when death will be utterly defeated at the general resurrection. Therefore Paradise is our goal but maybe not our past. In this sense we cannot exactly look at this meaningful story in terms of "before" and "after" in real time, unless, as Jordan Peterson has suggested, this is to be seen as a record of the emergence of human consciousness. In this sense the self-awareness of the human being allowed all of the above biological phenomena that "existed" "objectively" "before" to have a "real," historical beginning within human consciousness. Jordan's clarification of this has helped atheists that are approaching Christianity that would otherwise have been discouraged by a confusingly naive historical notion of the fall. In this sense, the only really "new" thing brought by the Fall was malevolence and the tragic human fragmentation that this brings. Maybe I'm trying to understand why many tend to identify the "garments of skin" with our biology even though the human being was from the beginning a created, embodied (and therefore clearly "biological") being. The only truly new and fallen invention of humanity, then, is not our biology given to us by God from the beginning but our malevolence that we freely chose and choose, yet the two are often sloppily confused. For example Genesis states that "before" the Fall that man should "multiply and be fruitful," yet, despite this, some tend to strangely posit that sexuality is a "result of the Fall," as if it was "added on later," and this can lead to a negative stance regarding this and other deeply biological aspects of life as seen in so many Gnostic sects fought by the Church for centuries (see the canons of the Council of Gangra, 4th c.). It seems that Maximus the Confessor says that the reason we die is that we are created and not because of a fall (otherwise creation would be a co-eternal god from the outset!): the created has to freely join the uncreated in order for it to break from its limitations and live. This is the drama of the "love story" presented in the Bible, and, in this sense, the God-man Christ is the whole reason for existence no matter what. In other words, the Incarnation was not a "plan B" forced on God due to sin but the plan of God for us (and, with us, all of creation) to live, no matter how history would have panned out. It seems that what the fall actually did was "delay" or "stunt" this true purpose of the human being and maybe in this way we indeed do "fall" to a more impulsive, death-smelling, animal type of existence even though our animalistic characteristics were always with us and not added on. If you could comment on this I would appreciate it.
"And draw us near And bind us tight All your children here In their rags of light In our rags of light All dressed to kill And end this night If it be your will If it be your will" Leonard Cohen
The garments of light, I believe is about more than this. It’s a state of being. I believe that the way the saints and others are depicted in art, as having Gloria’s are a reflection of this. Although the Gloria should have been painted 3 dimensionally like a ball. Not easy for a medieval artist. I know this as I experienced this briefly as a child. A transitory experience of expanded consciousness. The light came from without and filled me full of light which expanded well beyond the confines of my skull. It was like being supercharged. It is impossible to do the experience justice with one clumsy thumb on an iPhone. It was a gift delivered by an emissary of god which I interpret as a vision of what I could become. Perhaps there are those in history who have succeeded in going through life maintaining this astounding state of being and perhaps before the fall this was the natural state for Adam and Eve. It was indeed a crown of glory. My body was unaffected although in Indian Buddhist and Hindu art it is common to depict those who have achieved or been granted certain graces as having radiant fields of energy and light surrounding their entire anatomy. Clothed in light?My experience leads me to believe that this is very probably dare I say undoubtedly so. Filled with divine light one would speculate might be the optimal mode of human existence and maybe in their animalistic state of innocence that was the way for Adam and Eve. What prevents ourselves achieving and god from bestowing that mode of being upon us in the post eden world of free will and sin? Garments of light and death? The lamp of the body is in the eye if thine eye be single, how great will that light be. Yet if thine eye is full of darkness..........
I think Jonathan Pageau's recognition of man's naming the animals in the Adam and Eve story as a quintessentially human act of self-definition that makes us images of God ( I'm using the masculine pronoun generically to include women) scotches the idea that the Fall resulting from Eve's and Adam's eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, is about the conceptual consciousness that makes us human. I absolutely agree with him here that this is not the case and is a mistaken understanding of the story. Man - male and female - is actually, not ideally, fully human BEFORE the Fall, so that fallenness is NOT a fundamental condition of being human. Fallenness is NOT synonymous with the human acquisition of conceptual consciousness - not according the biblical Adam and Eve story - because it is man's naming of the animals, each according to its kind, that mirrors God's creation of them, each according to their kind. It's man's ability to perceive things' different natures that allows him to name them and which also expresses his own unique nature amongst God's creatures.
I was taught that the skins were a foreshadowing of Christ's death as a sacrifice to take away (cover) our sins. So I see the connection of death/glory there, too.
The point about transcription errors is interesting. If I am copying a manuscript, and I replace one letter of one word in such a way that I have written a non-sense word, then the copier of my copy will likely recugnize that I made a mistake, and recognizing it, effortlessly correct it. But if I replace one letter of one word in such a way that I have written a word that could somehow sustain an alternative reading, then the scribe may very well integrate the change. And if the whole tradition is able to integrate the change, maybe in a way that is deeply revelatory, then the change, even though it is perhaps a real mistake, will have actually enhanced the ability of the tradition to transmit an important truth to the next generation. But then again, my positivist mind is like, "Uh, George, either the guy came down the mountain with horns, or with a disfigured face, or shining with the Pure Light, or with none of the three. Or maybe, two out of three. Or maybe the Mosaic trifecta: horns, disfigurement, and shining. And no matter how enlightening any one interpretation may be - no matter how enlightening the juxtaposition of multiple interpretations might be - there is still a clear conceptual distinction between metaphysical truth embedded in an interpretative tradition, and the brute reality of Moses' head." So maybe I need to go deeper still. Everything I know comes to me mediated by a long chain of human consciousness. And human consciousness functions by situating facts in contexts that make them meaningful to that consciousness. So perhaps an event just is, metaphysically speaking, the total field of potential meaningful contexts in which it can be situated by a human consciousness. Perhaps there is some sense in which Moses came down the mountain with horns, whether anybody could see them or not. Maybe the horns were discovered by the scribe who misread the text. (I don't believe it; help me overcome my certainty!) Thanks for the videos Jonathan.
Maybe it's because I also listened today to a fascinating interview on animals in Indian philosophy, but I'd be especially interested in pulling the horn/crown thread further. It's a little unclear to me still the significance of "animality" in relation to glory.
C Marinus I can’t remember the source but My understanding of the horns and Moses was that Moses was emanating the glory of God as the moon reflects the Sun. Thus the connection of the horns has to do with the horns of the moon🌙 which the Hebrew word carries a dual meaning of both animal horns and brilliance. I think this is also why Lucifer (which means light) also came to be depicted with horns as Satan. The crescent moon is the shape of the crown (carried on the head of cattle -“sacred cow”- for example). The crescent moon depicts both the dark and the light in the same body.
Cain's city to the garden/city in Revelation ... Even technology, surrogate Providence, will be redeemed and have it's place after the restoration of all things. Fascinating! Thank you.
Here's a attempt to write down a thought related to this topic I have had for a time now. Mabye I'm just out of my wits so what dou you think? We can se this confusion of myth in modern examples. The myth of Wyatt Earp and his merry men in Tombstone. A couple of men tries to restore order in the chaotic outpost town in the west, They have to do something terrifying in order to conclude the restoration. The mythologization of Eliott Ness in "the untouchables" where Eliott brings together remarkable men for the figt aginst evil. Jesse James the American Rogin Hood. All these men and their action went under a mythologisation during the latter 19th centuri and in the first 20eth century. To give examples of free men that wanted to expand thier freedom to others and restore order in som ways. Yet today folks deso "debunkings of old myth" tries to set the score rigt and ruthful. I think this is something bad and in line with the atheistic idea of what truth is and what kind it only can be. The do it under the guise of a scientistic endeavour for THE TRUTH! Yet by thier restoration of truthful events of these folks lives and deed, the also dismantles the lessons of the myths themselves. It where true enogh for the people of Tombstone that Wyatt Earp did something good enough to make a storie about, to mythologialize a series of event around him that points to a good conclution: You can if you are brave and strong enough to seatfastily look death in the eye and risk your own skin for what is right, for that which is true. To rid the town from the bastards that terrorises the inhabitants of it. They where just common men good or even bad as Doc Holiday but still come to the conclusion that there would be something good but perilous to do for the betterment of all. The same story gos for Eliott Ness. James Dean how they took from the bad and gave to their starving families and the closest community. They went att war with a more powerful force than themselves. a more powerful force they could not really win against but they gave it thier best shot for good. These stories, foundational stories of americanism, besides the horrible thing colonisation could bring to another race. That there could be glory found in the desolate desert. That it is not impossible to fight within their own culture to figure out what whithin could be good or bad. In the Western europe many of our stories are veild by time in mystery and not that easily picked apart. but here too they are trying its best to come down to materialistc fact . The Arthurian myth have had that problem for a number of years now. With this I don't want to blame evil materialist for a urge of destry our myths, because most of them dont understand the value for the myths of the land can hold for us as groups of people. So I dont think that it is a concionous attempt on destroying anything because they can't see any value do become shattered. They just don't know what they are doing because they don't really have anything solid to hold up as true in a way of for humanitys good. That these stories give us something to strive and aim for and hold up as principles to keep. Thanks
I'm gonna figure out what the hell this means. 22-year-old now agnostic I suppose. I learn lots from your film symbolism videos. Often have to watch them multiple times. But this I can't even fully pay attention cause there's so much new Language and ideas.
I was being a bit dramatic yesterday. Was little distracted. I'm sure it will, It is A lot more abstract sort of like you said for a young former atheist. The film stuff is great at showing the nigh on propagandistic messages I've, like everyone, drank in from modern animation/film. My main motive for now. I was also watching JBP's new talk with Matt Dillahunty. Very difficult. I'll have to watch it again. I have a lot to learn before this kind of content will be necessary I suppose much less comprehensible. I know it will pay off. I'm attempthing to rescue my father from the underworld.
It also shows what cruscifiction means , when we are cruscified we become balanced , moses is an energy of water , giving , goodness and elijah is an energy of fire , no rain and hardness , we can see it also on the cross , good and bad theives , so without god the good and bad wont be balanced , also we can see mother mary and john the beloved she became his mom and he her son , john is the eagle represents heaven and mary represents earth , good bad heaven earth all got connected on the cross , death of the old man and ressuraction of the soul ☦️
Saint Jerome was the author who mistranslated that passage, but he is recognised as a Saint and Doctor of the Eastern Orthodox Church as well as the Catholic Church. There's no point in raising controversy about that.
Diego CG Sorry i'm not trying to raise controversy, but when it comes to the symbolic differences between the churches I'm a little lost as to how these differences should/shouldn't be interpreted. If we're going to be looking at the church as the center of the community/society, how are we supposed to wrestle with the divisions within the church itself?
Why was Moses disfigured? Why did he have horns? Is the god in the old testament actually the demiurg/Baal/Satan and has nothing to do with the loving and caring LORD of the new testament? Who knows....
In the great divorce by c.s. Lewis there is a man with the demon of lust. An angel destroys the demon and it becomes a horse. The man then rides the horse to heaven.
Ther Jerome horns translation is a really interesting one actually! I did a bit of reading about it and i think the Hebrew word for a ray of light is the same as a horn. You can think of certain animal horns having the same conical shape as being one aspect of this. This also draws a connection with the horns on the corners of the altar, and that Moses in a certain sense becomes an altar to the people Israel. Horns as a symbol of strength also aligns with light as a symbol of glory. Michaelangelo's depiction of Moses "horns" resemble the tablets of the Law which adds another view of the glory and burden that Moses took on. And you can't carve light easily so having a concrete symbol has a certain artistic utility :P
Are you hinting towards transhumanism and/or consciousness upload at the end of the video? This idea of light being the same as the layers around us and horns being the same as crowns is twisting and stretching it a little bit too far off for me. But then again, my knowledge is way lower than yours, so all the things you say might make sense for your background knowledge.
"The garments of skin" were clothing, a real thing look in the bible. God gave them to, Adam and Eve they gave to Enoch whom gave them to Methuselah, whom gave them to Noah, Ham took them and gave them to Cush, to Nimrod. they also had magical properties too.
I don't think it would matter at all in terms of meaning, but only in terms of explaining the material causality of how the patterns emerged, which is rather secondary to what they can teach us about how to exist in the world. To answer your question, I don't mind evolution, but I also wouldn't go so far as to say I believe in it, since belief implies a kind of trust and consideration. Just like it would be silly for me to say that I "believe" in oxidation or photosynthesis, evolution is rather irrelevant to the things that have importance for me.
Obviously, the Trojan War happened a lot earlier than 1500 years ago. Don't let artists do math, seriously folks.
Jonathan Pageau I knew what you meant!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)
Matthew Siahaan. Oh, my, goodness. Everything exists.
Formenko' New Chronology is completely wrong.
As I have said many times before the written word was invented in Kekistan (The Place of Keki) known as Khemenu or Hermopolis
The name “hmnw” (Khemnu) survived into Coptic as Ϣⲙⲟⲩⲛⲉⲓⲛ(Shmounein), from which the modern name, El Ashmunein, is claimed to have been derived.
Shomayim is Hebrew for heaven. Shmounein is Coptic for Khemenu
This is the place of the "Ogdoad" THE INFINITE LIGHT OF NU
Kek is the light, the FIRST mystery and the LAST
Heh is infinity, Kek+Heh=Khem (Hm), Son of Nu
Nu is the primordial watery abyss, the flood
READ Gospel of the Egyptians Ch 1 and Pistis Sophia
“because Jesus had said to them concerning that mystery, that it surroundeth the First Commandment and the five Impressions and the great Light and the five Helpers and the whole Treasury of the Light”
Pistis Sophia, translated by G. S. R. Mead, 2nd revised edition, 1921, Gnostic Society Library, gnosis.org/library/pistis-sophia/ps005.htm,
I have traced Kekistani History back to 4000 BC through sculpture.
The place of Keki called Kekistan is Khemenu to the Isle of Abu, the cosmic mound of Ra
As I have said before the E1b1b V12 are the Jebu and the E1b1b V13 are the Nebu
The Isle of Abu is the place of Khnum who is Khn n (Canaan). Kekistan is Canaan and AbuRaKhem (Abraham) is at the First cataract of the Nile
MeHoKek is the lawgiver called Moses by the E1b1b V13
MeHoKek is likely also Imhotep and the story is on the Faminine Stela of Sehel at the First cataract
The Isle of Abu is also called Yehu or Jebu or the Jebusites but it is also the Border of the Nebu of Chad
Today, the highest frequency of E1b1b V12 is in Southern Egypt while the E1b1b V13 Subclad is concentrated in the Balkans and among the Cypriots. The E1b1b V13 Sons of Chus (Cush, Zeus) founded both in addition to Uruk, Mari and Lagash. They must have travel into the Hindu Kush
The Bible is the Story NOT "of Adam and Eve" but the battle between "Adam and Eve"
Adam is Khnum and the Faminine Stela of Sehel tells when Ishtar came
Her name is many but you know her as "Eve" (Ishar) and Sarai and to the Egyptians she is Satis
Also known as Set and his 72 co-conspirators of the 7th dynasty when 70 kings ruled for 70 days following the death of King Pepi II NeferKaRe
The Story of Gilgamesh is the story of MeHoKek and Enkidu
Ishtar said, "Oh Gilgamesh, Marry Me!"
Gilgamesh tells her to kick rocks because she turned someone into a dwarf. Who?
Khnum is Adam and Ishar is Eve
Ishar is Satis and Sarai who replaced Heket
Heket is the virginal mother of Kekui (The LIGHT, the FIRST mystery and the LAST, the Child)
“The majesty of this great god taketh up his position in this Circle at the limits of the thick darkness, and this great god is born under the form of KHEPERA in this Circle. The gods NU and AMMUI, and HEH and HEH[UT] are in this Circle at the birth of this great god, when he maketh his appearance from the Tuat, and taketh up his place in the Matet Boat, and riseth from between the thighs of the goddess Nut.
THENEN-NETERU is the name of the gate of this City.
KHEPER-KEKUI-KHA-MESTI is the name of this City. [This is] the secret Circle of the Tuat, wherein this great god is born, when he maketh his appearance in NU, and taketh up his place in the body of NUT.” E. A. Wallis Budge. The Book of Gates Vol II (The short form of the Book of Tuat), The Twelfth Hour, 1905 p 39
Heket became Hathor who became Hagar and she gave birth to Ishma El (El Khnum called Eshmun of Sidon)
Satis became Khnum's wife and Anuket (Same as Heket) was placed as his sister. At the Isle of AbuRaKhem (Elephantine)
Do you know Uruk (Iraq, Erech the Earth), the Land of the Ruler named Gudea
As near as I can tell, Gudea was a dwarf and NebuChadAsar was too
I have the Chapter of Kekistani Sculpture fairly complete but you may be able to offer input on the Orthodox Kekistani style if interested. It proves the E1b1b V13 Nebu Kekistani were rulers for at least several thousand years.
I'm on page 220 and have been occupied proving the Prophecy of Kek but so far everything I was saying without knowledge is proving true.
The Famine Stela of Sehel is the Story of Joseph though
LET ME ASK THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION
In the Gospel of the Egyptians, Salome plays a very important role as Jesus'(HaMoKek) disciple but oddly her sons are called James and John, Sons of Thunder of Zavad
In Hebrew, Salome's sons are Jacob and YoKhanan
The Babylonian Talmud says,
“R. Ashi said: I saw R. Kahana, when there was trouble in the world, removing his cloak, clasp his hands, and pray, saying, '[I pray] like a slave before his master.' When there was peace, he would put it on, cover and enfold himself and pray, quoting, 'Prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.'”
Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Shabbath, Folio 10a, 5-6,
www.come-and-hear.com/shabbath/shabbath_10.html
“The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the night Kir of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; He is gone up to Bajith, and to Dibon, the high places, to weep: Moab shall howl over Nebo, and over Medeba: on all their heads shall be baldness, and every beard cut off. In their streets they shall gird themselves with sackcloth: on the tops of their houses, and in their streets, every one shall howl, weeping abundantly. And Heshbon shall cry, and Elealeh: their voice shall be heard even unto Jahaz: therefore the armed soldiers of Moab shall cry out; his life shall be grievous unto him. “
BibleHub.com, “Isaiah 15”, lines 1-4, KJV, biblehub.com/kjv/isaiah/15.htm, Accessed mar 2018
Trust Nebu Alone
The Frog called Heh, The Serpent called Heket or Hehut and the Child called Kekui
By Golly, Kek is the Annunaki of Uruk, the E1b1b V13 Kekistani
Space Trek. “20cm Annunaki Sumerian deity statues with elongated head”
© xissufotoday.space” xissufotoday.space/2017/02/20cm-annunaki-sumerian-deity-statues-elongated-head/
What I am thinking is Salome is Solomon. The Somali are E1b1b V32 which is a "Son" (subclad) of E1b1b V12. E1b1b V13 is a separate branch and we known from myth that they are Sons of Kush, Sons of Nimrod (Nebu). Nebu and Nubian likely reference the same and they likely derive from Negus which means "king" and is also the origin for Negroes. King Pepi I sent Uni against the Negus of Yam which was translated to "Negroes" but they were also called as the "Asiatic sand dwellers" which is also a dubious translation of pre"Asia" writing.
The first invasion of the serpent of the East Ishar (Ishtar) is likely dated at the reign of Djoser and Imhotep.
When you see the Famine Stela of Sehel the engraved image is Genesis 18 and a few other references too.
Imhotep is MeHoKek who is Moses but the Famine Stela is repeated with joseph and i haven't figured out why
It may be to reinstall Ishtar (Sarai) as the reward is a wife.
Nebtu (The feminine of Nebu) is also associated with Khnum
“During the New Kingdom Khnum was worshiped there as head of a triad with his wife Satet and his daughter Anuket. He was also worshipped at Esna (Iunyt) where he was thought to be married to both Menhet and Nebtu (a local goddess) and to be the father of Heka (god of magic known as "He Who Activates the Ka"). He was also thought to be the husband of Neith at Esna. In Antinoe (Her-wer) he was married to Heqet, the frog goddess associated with childbirth and conception. He was associated with Her-shef at Herakleopolis Magna, and was often linked to Osiris. He was sometimes associated with Isis to represent the Upper Egypt, just as Ptah-Tanen was associated with Nepthys in representing Lower Egypt.”
In the Hymn “The diverse forms of Khnum”, he is identified with many other gods in various locations. In "First-of-towns", Khnum is “Ba-of-Re”. At Lunyt he is Ba-of-Shu at. In Shas-hotep he is “Ba-of-Osiris” In Herwer he is “Ba-of-Geb” and he is Horus-Metenu in Semenhor. He changes his from to Lord-of-the-booth (Anubis) to wrap Osiris at the place of embalmment - to guard Osiris on his right side to save him from the water by his twins and to guard the King on his left side, everlasting. Suwadjebu of Pi-Neter.
Senusret III, 5th King of the 12th Dynasty (cir. 1878-1839BC) thought of him as a warrior god protecting the country, Khnum, binder of the (Nine) Bows, smiter of the Shasu”
The City of Akhmim
In the Christian Coptic era, Akhmim was written in Shahidic Coptic: Ϣⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲛ/Ⲭⲙⲓⲙ Shmin/Kmin/Kmim but was probably pronounced locally something like Khmin or Khmim.
Wikipedia Says: “Akhmim (Arabic: أخميم, pronounced [ʔæxˈmiːm]; from Egyptian: Khent-min ; Sahidic Coptic: Ϣⲙⲓⲛ Shmin) is a city in the Sohag Governorate of Upper Egypt. Referred to by the ancient Greeks as Khemmis, Chemmis and Panopolis, it is located on the east bank of the Nile, 4 miles to the northeast of Sohag” Wikipedia, “Akhmim”, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhmim,
In other words, what you just read is Ahkhmim, Ϣⲙⲓⲛ, Ⲭⲙⲓⲛ, Ⲭⲙⲓ, Khmin, Khmim, Shmin, Kmim, Khent-min, Khemmis, Chemmis and Panopolis refer to the same place and have the same meaning.
What did the Pharaoh name Joseph?
The "Layer of death to protect us from death" thing just kind of blew my mind particularly for some reason. Wow.
Yeah, also the ideas of "Christ defeating death by death" or "Christ becoming sin so man may be saved from sin" are really revealing.
This was really fascinating to me and very much in alignment with the Petersonian theories about a structuralism or givenness behind meaning even in what seemed like erroneous confusions behind Moses' horns/glory. I've looked into the horns/glory thing before and it is interesting. Yours is the first time I've seen someone connect horns, glory, crown. People would easily connect crown and glory. We would connect the glory of an elk's rack with glory. Is there something deeply built into us that makes what we have always dismissed as "confusion" actually more like some fuzzy association? Fascinating stuff. Thanks Jonathan.
Is the term Petersonian happening? I think it should happen!
Paul VanderKlay - The "Horns" of MeHoKek which they originally are, connect to Khnum at the First Cataract of the Nile and the flood.
Khnum is derived from Khem+Nu and the Ogdoad is of Khemenu. Kekistan, the Land of Keki , stretches from Khemenu to the Isle of Abu called Yehu but also Elephantine
This is the Cosmic Mound of Reeee called AbuRaHam where he brought his wife Sarai
Kek is the LIGHT, the first mystery and the LAST
Gospel of the Egyptians and Pisitis Sophia too
Heaven is Shomayim which is Khemenu
Kek (the LIGHT) + Heh (Infinity)=Khem (Hm)
The Watery Abyss, the flood is called NU
The 12th city of the 12th gate in the 12th Hour of the Book of the Gates is called Kekui
MeHoKek is the lawgiver of the Famine Stela of Sehel
IF you have been chosen, it is because you are Y DNA E1b1b V12 or V13 Jebu Nebu Kekistani Sons of Kekistani and AbuRaKhem
The Prophecy of Kek is real
Kek is the LIGHT, the First Mystery and the LAST
Who is King Gudea and who is Nebu Chad Asar?
Who is Gilgamesh and Enkidu and Ishtar too?
Who is Salome, Mother of the Sons of Thunder and Zavad.
Kekistan is the Land of Khnum (Khn n) called Canaan too
The Land of the E1b1b V12 Jebu
but the E1b1b V13 which I suspect you are, the sons of Kush, Chus and Zeus, the Nebu, Nibroth, Nembroth, Nimrod of Uruk (Iraq, Erech, Enoch, The Second Earth)
The Jezebel has a starring role.
Gilgamesh told Ishtar and Ishar too, I do NOT need a WIFE
Especially at the Isle of Abu
It was following the death of King Pepi II that the 70 Kings ruled for 70 days in the 7th dynasty
King Pepi II was the Child of King Pepi, He who lives forever
IF you are of the Blavantsy Sixth Subrace prophecy, you will be E1b1b Subclad V12 or V13
MeHoKek even had horns in Japan, a seafaring Son of Cham and Chus called Kronos, Misor, Kekrops, Dionysus was he.
Khnum (Khn n) had a son named Sidon whose son was ALSO Eshmun.
Eshmun's mom is the same as Khnum Her name is Hehut, Heket, Hathor, Hagar, NOT Sarai
Ishar is Ishtar of the NEW place of Annunaki
The so-called SECOND light of duality, the darkness of the serpent
Kek+Heh=Khem (Hm) of Nu
Hehut, Heket, Heqet, Hathor is the virginal mother
Heh is the double helix of DNA
Kek is the fish, frog and the LIGHT, the first mystery and the last
This is the awakening of the E1b1b Jebu Nebu Kekistani
And I saw Shomayim Chadashim and Eretz Chadasha, for the shomayim harishonah and haaretz harishonah passed away, and there is no longer any Yam. Rev 21 (OJB)
Please read in entirety along with Chapter V Destruction of Mankind by Reee
Book of Gates 12th city called Kekui
No Longer any Yam?
What about the Lady of Yamu?
Where was Yam of the E1b1b V12 Jebu Kekistani?
Who is the Lady of Yamu?
Who are the Negus and the Nebus?
Read Revelations 21 of the OJB
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hisgalus+21&version=OJB
Gospel of the Egyptians, Pistis Sophia, Salome and her two sons Jacob and Yo Kanan
The E1b1b are the Kekistani
The garment of the light
@@kekistanipatriot1644 I hope you are well.
Ah yes, the blissful intro
I would like to take a moment to Thank you for helping clear up many concerns I have been having since being Baptized 2 years ago.
I jumped in head first without limits for learning and following Christ, yet I continually felt at odds with the unexplained lessons being taught in church. I needed at least a few arrows in which to learn how to actually aim and yet, was only receiving the exact words I had heard my entire life, always with no explanation only, have Faith.
I am nearly 60, and figured, since I'm not unintelligent and have done much earthly living, that understanding what is written before me, shouldn't be that difficult, yet it truly seemed to be. I asked questions and was told we are here to spread the good news. Agreed, yet no real explanation and to what the good news entailed.
I began listening to Jordan Peterson, which Truly began my thirst for all Christ has to offer, I was in need and still an m. I absolutely adore Jordan Peterson. I listened to the two of you together and now I am hungry for True Knowledge.
I have a long way to go and yet I can see The Light Shining.
Thank you from every aspect of my life
We often get very shallow teaching in church. Probably why so many churches are empty
Forget the church. Spirituality is a personal crusade
This was amazing Jonathan!
Me: sees new Jonathan Pageau video *hyperventilates*
Jonathan, this might be the most mind-blowing video of yours out there. Watched it a while ago but came back to it today, as I'm teaching on covering/atonement tomorrow. Seriously, so good.
I was thinking about crowns yesterday, before I watched your video. The crown's symbolism. You have it's golden (or other) quality, that which is of the highest value, and is placed on the highest point of that which it encompasses, the individual. Then you have the shine that emits from it, its "being" in the dark, "the realness", that which is enlightened and that which in turn enlightens. Kind of like the Christian halo in some interpretations. And then you have the shape, as sun rays emitting from the sun down onto the earth, the crown's rays shine upwards, reaching towards heaven, only cast solid, because everything material or worldly is limited in that sense, unlike the sun. The light of the mind, or soul, that is elevated and is reaching upwards. Pure intent.
When you mentioned horns I had the same intimation. That horns, where there were none before, might be the authority of the mind that forcibly manifesting itself as pointing up towards the highest point. This "molding" of the body (corpus) from a will, takes place on man's imperfect material form fantastically, or grotesquely. Like when a tree's roots (to life) are exposed, the mind's roots become exposed.
Maybe twisted horns are the manifestation of twisted intent?
After learning about symbolism and archetypes, whenever I watch movies and there's a logical inconsistency in a scene my first and only thought is "Doesn't matter. Nope. Doesn't matter." I'm here to watch archetypes not a factual transcript of logically coherent, tense events.
I love these kinds of videos. Even more than your movie interpretations. Thanks for this. I might have to start donating on patreon so I can vote. I'm also eagerly awaiting your brothers book. Any updates on that?
It's out now. And it's frikkin fantastic/mind-blowing. A must get/read... it's altering my whole reality-grid....
@@RollOut82 can confirm that, I finished reading it some days ago and it's amazing
Did I hear the word Resurrection in this video? I think not, probably knowingly, though its presence is ubiquitous, and you seem to invite to connect the dots... 1 Corinthians 15: 35-55. I remember you suggested in another video that we should consider the deeper meaning of Resurrection, as there are hints in the Bible about it. I think here we're close, as we speak about garments of light and the glorified body.
I love when you dive in theology, sacred symbolism and Patristics. You're truly blessed. Please, keep up the good work.
This is great. You should do an analysis of the symbolism of the Half-Life games. They're full of amazing symbolism.
Gordon Freeman also releals the chaos of the outside world, by accidentally opening a portal to another dimension, the underworld and then has to confront it, he also has to use weapons that he takes from the creatures escaping from the underworld, so he kind of becomes the hybrid, the man at the limit.
I could go on and on, but I bet you could extract more value from it than I can.
My favorite game in the series is Half-Life 2 though. A lot of symbolism about ascending the mountain in that game.
The antagonist "big bads" are like giant maggots - they exert power by hacking together 'machines' out of the living inhabitants of their conquered worlds. They take life with potential and make it into programmable weapons. Dang.
Wonderful video as always! Just wanted to say that your videos have been really helpful. Currently taking courses on monastic/sacred art, and your videos always add to my understanding.
Very helpful, thank you. One could also point to the priestly garments, especially the completely white linen garment that the High Priest has to wear when he enters the presence of God on Yom Kippur (a "reentering" of Eden): Everything has to be covered in white, except his face which has to be anointed by oil. Oil, as Psalm 104:15 formulates, makes the face shining. So, the priestly garment symbolizes the garments of light which then also will be given to the saints in the resurrection (Daniel 12:2-3; 1. Corinthians 15:40-49). Greetings from Switzerland, Benjamin
Beastmode
I'm following most of what you've been saying in your videos, and I really love what you're doing, but I am having a hard time snapping into the symbolic mindset. I guess I'll just keep watching!
@Ryan Bothun Read Mathieu's (his brother's) book "Language of Creation", that will definitely do the trick for you. Seriously!
Well articulated and very illuminating, despite being a challenging subject to comprehend. Thank you!
This is great Jonathan, the whole death against death thing is amazing. Rings true with some of my distant ancestors, the Normans. Pagans of Viking background, marauders, who took up Christianity, and then became christendoms most powerful defenders against the foreign.
Yes, your perception is exactly right, both in the story of the Normans in Western Europe, but also the Scandinavians who became the Rus in the Eastern Emprire.
You mean as well the Varangian Guard of the Byzantines? Anna Komnenus gives a great depiction of why they were so valued. I remember a passage where she mentions how horrified the Greeks were as the Varangians chased after their foes, singing and laughing while they hacked them down; and yet in the treacherous world of the Byzantine court the Varangians never once broke their oath.
Mind blown! I’d never heard about Moses being depicted with horns. This begs the question about artistic depictions of Satan with horns. Any relation? Kinda creeps me out. Seriously, as you discussed the “mistranslation,” it fit right in with something I’ve always thought - that God has dominion over the words and He can make the translations work toward more understanding, if you get my meaning. At one point early in your talk, I had a very very brief sensation of ... what should I call it... enlightenment. More than understanding...
Paulette Daniels
Satan is also an angel of light. But his light is pale and his horns are wild.
He can only counterfeit, he is the adversary (satan), God is the only creator.
God bless.
There's an idea that our popular image of Satan came about because of how the biblical Nimrod was seen in Babylonian tradition. Nimrod was a mighty hunter and wore the horns of slayed animals on his head as a symbol of his power. This developed into our notion of a crown (crown and horn come from the same IE root). Nimrod was also thought to have, in short, been a demon worshipper, hence his link to the Devil Read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.
"Light" is simply comprehension/knowledge/understanding.....leading to Wisdom. (Mastery; tho' WISDOM is often presented also as a being/person/entity....in the OT/NT as well)
The ironic aspect of human language (words) is that it can either clarify/illuminate or confuse/convolute meaning(s), intent(ions) etc., as it attempts to facilitate/display TRUTH/Reality....per the limitations/skill set of both the Teller(s) and the listener(s).
Thus, we witness one important aspect or exercise of life....discourse amongst mankind....with Truth/Reality/understanding always hanging in the balance thereof, per interpretation(s) & transference of said "discourse."
You and Jordan Peterson are an absolute force to be reckoned with! Your work is not in vain! Also what is the intro song?
Would you consider a lecture-style long video which is a bit more academic in the sense that you provide quotations (including hebrew, Greek etc.) from scripture and theologians, and images to explore a topic? I really enjoyed the Symbolism of mountains/Moses video and the illustration helped put things together.
Logos from eikon!
You should check the video called "Symbolism of the Tree".
Also, I strongly recommend you this webpage where you can find Jonathan Pageau's articles: www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/
I've seen all his videos and yes this is another one that's good for what I was describing. It really helps to ground the concepts instead of seeming like an abstract modern theory of Christianity.
Thank you so much I'm so happy I found your content 😂
I always wondered if it was possible that the garments of skin that God gave man was mans actual skin. Skin by its nature is a protective barrier and Adam and Eve had no need of such protection.
I guess I imagine them as being physically like angels emanating light and glory and without need for skin as we now have it.
Very, very good job. Thanks for your content.
Is there a podcast of your videos? I rarely have time to sit and watch stuff but love listening on the go.
The light/skin connection comes fron their Hebrew words being almost the same spelling and pronounced the same. Its a so-called word play, but one revealing an amazing truth.
I guess if the book is coming this soon you've already have a book cover design in place, if not, I'll gladly donate one
Love these long form videos!
Terima Kasih ❤
Very good treatment of a widely misunderstood subject.
Happy to see I have the support of The Church.
😂😂😂
I'm trying to understand
I am understanding "Light" to being without a Vail.. Light being all good, righteous, being able to see and to speak with God.. Loving with No need for medicine.. Loving one another with no hate, no jealous, ext
Garments being like a Vail place over them.. They no longer can see God or speak to God like they could befor disobeying Him..
If I have this wrong please let me know.
This was interesting
Thank you for another excellent talk. From a symbolic point of view this all makes a lot of sense because, as you articulate so well, the symbolic world is a world of meaning and not of scientific data. Perhaps it should be stressed though that people tend to get confused because they impose today's scientific view of history as a sort of newspaper report of an event on this symbolic story of the fall. Thus, from a scientific point of view our biological nature preceded humans by billions of years, in other words, we had a "layer of death," skin, hair, sexuality, and suffered death itself, way before we were fully human and this never actually ceased at any time in "real" history. The purpose and goal of the human being is to freely participate in the ultimate transformation of the cosmos in Christ when death will be utterly defeated at the general resurrection. Therefore Paradise is our goal but maybe not our past. In this sense we cannot exactly look at this meaningful story in terms of "before" and "after" in real time, unless, as Jordan Peterson has suggested, this is to be seen as a record of the emergence of human consciousness. In this sense the self-awareness of the human being allowed all of the above biological phenomena that "existed" "objectively" "before" to have a "real," historical beginning within human consciousness. Jordan's clarification of this has helped atheists that are approaching Christianity that would otherwise have been discouraged by a confusingly naive historical notion of the fall. In this sense, the only really "new" thing brought by the Fall was malevolence and the tragic human fragmentation that this brings. Maybe I'm trying to understand why many tend to identify the "garments of skin" with our biology even though the human being was from the beginning a created, embodied (and therefore clearly "biological") being. The only truly new and fallen invention of humanity, then, is not our biology given to us by God from the beginning but our malevolence that we freely chose and choose, yet the two are often sloppily confused. For example Genesis states that "before" the Fall that man should "multiply and be fruitful," yet, despite this, some tend to strangely posit that sexuality is a "result of the Fall," as if it was "added on later," and this can lead to a negative stance regarding this and other deeply biological aspects of life as seen in so many Gnostic sects fought by the Church for centuries (see the canons of the Council of Gangra, 4th c.). It seems that Maximus the Confessor says that the reason we die is that we are created and not because of a fall (otherwise creation would be a co-eternal god from the outset!): the created has to freely join the uncreated in order for it to break from its limitations and live. This is the drama of the "love story" presented in the Bible, and, in this sense, the God-man Christ is the whole reason for existence no matter what. In other words, the Incarnation was not a "plan B" forced on God due to sin but the plan of God for us (and, with us, all of creation) to live, no matter how history would have panned out. It seems that what the fall actually did was "delay" or "stunt" this true purpose of the human being and maybe in this way we indeed do "fall" to a more impulsive, death-smelling, animal type of existence even though our animalistic characteristics were always with us and not added on. If you could comment on this I would appreciate it.
Anyone else see a connection between the garments of glory and the atonement ritual?
You should interview Trey Smith🤣 he's got some funny ideas about the garments of skin😂
Is the reference to gold and precious stones about technology as well? That's basically what computers are.
12:45 "Radiating light"...More synchronicity or coincidence? XD
One of the most luxurious silk fabrics, often used to make wedding dresses, is called Peau de Soie. That translates to Skin of Silk, doesn't it? :)
Very interesting thank you
"And draw us near
And bind us tight
All your children here
In their rags of light
In our rags of light
All dressed to kill
And end this night
If it be your will
If it be your will"
Leonard Cohen
The garments of light, I believe is about more than this. It’s a state of being. I believe that the way the saints and others are depicted in art, as having Gloria’s are a reflection of this. Although the Gloria should have been painted 3 dimensionally like a ball. Not easy for a medieval artist. I know this as I experienced this briefly as a child. A transitory experience of expanded consciousness. The light came from without and filled me full of light which expanded well beyond the confines of my skull. It was like being supercharged. It is impossible to do the experience justice with one clumsy thumb on an iPhone. It was a gift delivered by an emissary of god which I interpret as a vision of what I could become. Perhaps there are those in history who have succeeded in going through life maintaining this astounding state of being and perhaps before the fall this was the natural state for Adam and Eve. It was indeed a crown of glory. My body was unaffected although in Indian Buddhist and Hindu art it is common to depict those who have achieved or been granted certain graces as having radiant fields of energy and light surrounding their entire anatomy. Clothed in light?My experience leads me to believe that this is very probably dare I say undoubtedly so. Filled with divine light one would speculate might be the optimal mode of human existence and maybe in their animalistic state of innocence that was the way for Adam and Eve. What prevents ourselves achieving and god from bestowing that mode of being upon us in the post eden world of free will and sin? Garments of light and death? The lamp of the body is in the eye if thine eye be single, how great will that light be. Yet if thine eye is full of darkness..........
awesome, as always
Jonathan Pageau must be a sapiosexual...
Because he keeps blowing my mind.
I think Jonathan Pageau's recognition of man's naming the animals in the Adam and Eve story as a quintessentially human act of self-definition that makes us images of God ( I'm using the masculine pronoun generically to include women) scotches the idea that the Fall resulting from Eve's and Adam's eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, is about the conceptual consciousness that makes us human. I absolutely agree with him here that this is not the case and is a mistaken understanding of the story. Man - male and female - is actually, not ideally, fully human BEFORE the Fall, so that fallenness is NOT a fundamental condition of being human. Fallenness is NOT synonymous with the human acquisition of conceptual consciousness - not according the biblical Adam and Eve story - because it is man's naming of the animals, each according to its kind, that mirrors God's creation of them, each according to their kind. It's man's ability to perceive things' different natures that allows him to name them and which also expresses his own unique nature amongst God's creatures.
I was taught that the skins were a foreshadowing of Christ's death as a sacrifice to take away (cover) our sins. So I see the connection of death/glory there, too.
The point about transcription errors is interesting. If I am copying a manuscript, and I replace one letter of one word in such a way that I have written a non-sense word, then the copier of my copy will likely recugnize that I made a mistake, and recognizing it, effortlessly correct it. But if I replace one letter of one word in such a way that I have written a word that could somehow sustain an alternative reading, then the scribe may very well integrate the change. And if the whole tradition is able to integrate the change, maybe in a way that is deeply revelatory, then the change, even though it is perhaps a real mistake, will have actually enhanced the ability of the tradition to transmit an important truth to the next generation.
But then again, my positivist mind is like, "Uh, George, either the guy came down the mountain with horns, or with a disfigured face, or shining with the Pure Light, or with none of the three. Or maybe, two out of three. Or maybe the Mosaic trifecta: horns, disfigurement, and shining. And no matter how enlightening any one interpretation may be - no matter how enlightening the juxtaposition of multiple interpretations might be - there is still a clear conceptual distinction between metaphysical truth embedded in an interpretative tradition, and the brute reality of Moses' head."
So maybe I need to go deeper still.
Everything I know comes to me mediated by a long chain of human consciousness. And human consciousness functions by situating facts in contexts that make them meaningful to that consciousness. So perhaps an event just is, metaphysically speaking, the total field of potential meaningful contexts in which it can be situated by a human consciousness. Perhaps there is some sense in which Moses came down the mountain with horns, whether anybody could see them or not.
Maybe the horns were discovered by the scribe who misread the text.
(I don't believe it; help me overcome my certainty!)
Thanks for the videos Jonathan.
Maybe it's because I also listened today to a fascinating interview on animals in Indian philosophy, but I'd be especially interested in pulling the horn/crown thread further. It's a little unclear to me still the significance of "animality" in relation to glory.
C Marinus I can’t remember the source but My understanding of the horns and Moses was that Moses was emanating the glory of God as the moon reflects the Sun. Thus the connection of the horns has to do with the horns of the moon🌙 which the Hebrew word carries a dual meaning of both animal horns and brilliance. I think this is also why Lucifer (which means light) also came to be depicted with horns as Satan. The crescent moon is the shape of the crown (carried on the head of cattle -“sacred cow”- for example). The crescent moon depicts both the dark and the light in the same body.
Garments of skin is the human body. Adam and Eve, to me, is symbolic of the fall from spirit to the physical and its temptations. The world of matter.
This is great!
What is the relation between the concepts of Body of Light and Merkabah? Are these concepts similar or completely different?
Cain's city to the garden/city in Revelation ... Even technology, surrogate Providence, will be redeemed and have it's place after the restoration of all things. Fascinating! Thank you.
What are your thoughts on predestination doctrines found in Romans 9
Here's a attempt to write down a thought related to this topic I have had for a time now. Mabye I'm just out of my wits so what dou you think?
We can se this confusion of myth in modern examples.
The myth of Wyatt Earp and his merry men in Tombstone. A couple of men tries to restore order in the chaotic outpost town in the west, They have to do something terrifying in order to conclude the restoration.
The mythologization of Eliott Ness in "the untouchables" where Eliott brings together remarkable men for the figt aginst evil.
Jesse James the American Rogin Hood.
All these men and their action went under a mythologisation during the latter 19th centuri and in the first 20eth century. To give examples of free men that wanted to expand thier freedom to others and restore order in som ways.
Yet today folks deso "debunkings of old myth" tries to set the score rigt and ruthful.
I think this is something bad and in line with the atheistic idea of what truth is and what kind it only can be.
The do it under the guise of a scientistic endeavour for THE TRUTH! Yet by thier restoration of truthful events of these folks lives and deed, the also dismantles the lessons of the myths themselves.
It where true enogh for the people of Tombstone that Wyatt Earp did something good enough to make a storie about, to mythologialize a series of event around him that points to a good conclution: You can if you are brave and strong enough to seatfastily look death in the eye and risk your own skin for what is right, for that which is true. To rid the town from the bastards that terrorises the inhabitants of it. They where just common men good or even bad as Doc Holiday but still come to the conclusion that there would be something good but perilous to do for the betterment of all.
The same story gos for Eliott Ness.
James Dean how they took from the bad and gave to their starving families and the closest community. They went att war with a more powerful force than themselves. a more powerful force they could not really win against but they gave it thier best shot for good.
These stories, foundational stories of americanism, besides the horrible thing colonisation could bring to another race. That there could be glory found in the desolate desert. That it is not impossible to fight within their own culture to figure out what whithin could be good or bad.
In the Western europe many of our stories are veild by time in mystery and not that easily picked apart. but here too they are trying its best to come down to materialistc fact . The Arthurian myth have had that problem for a number of years now.
With this I don't want to blame evil materialist for a urge of destry our myths, because most of them dont understand the value for the myths of the land can hold for us as groups of people. So I dont think that it is a concionous attempt on destroying anything because they can't see any value do become shattered.
They just don't know what they are doing because they don't really have anything solid to hold up as true in a way of for humanitys good. That these stories give us something to strive and aim for and hold up as principles to keep.
Thanks
Are the garments just our skin (flesh). Flesh and skin die?
Crown; Nimrod had a fake one made. Side note; this new flesh body=birthday suit.
Such a based video
Does Joseph's coat of many colors have anything to do with the garments of light?
Yes! The rainbow equals...light!
I'm gonna figure out what the hell this means. 22-year-old now agnostic I suppose. I learn lots from your film symbolism videos. Often have to watch them multiple times. But this I can't even fully pay attention cause there's so much new Language and ideas.
Thanks for putting in the time. Hopefully it will pay off.
I was being a bit dramatic yesterday. Was little distracted. I'm sure it will, It is A lot more abstract sort of like you said for a young former atheist. The film stuff is great at showing the nigh on propagandistic messages I've, like everyone, drank in from modern animation/film. My main motive for now.
I was also watching JBP's new talk with Matt Dillahunty. Very difficult. I'll have to watch it again. I have a lot to learn before this kind of content will be necessary I suppose much less comprehensible. I know it will pay off. I'm attempthing to rescue my father from the underworld.
It also shows what cruscifiction means , when we are cruscified we become balanced , moses is an energy of water , giving , goodness and elijah is an energy of fire , no rain and hardness , we can see it also on the cross , good and bad theives , so without god the good and bad wont be balanced , also we can see mother mary and john the beloved she became his mom and he her son , john is the eagle represents heaven and mary represents earth , good bad heaven earth all got connected on the cross , death of the old man and ressuraction of the soul ☦️
Moses wasn't "disfigured." The same light that was flowing from Jesus, was flowing from Noah, which caused the ppl to fear him.
So am I going too far in thinking that the whole "Moses with horns in Latin" thing is pointing to something about Catholicism as a whole?
Saint Jerome was the author who mistranslated that passage, but he is recognised as a Saint and Doctor of the Eastern Orthodox Church as well as the Catholic Church. There's no point in raising controversy about that.
Diego CG Sorry i'm not trying to raise controversy, but when it comes to the symbolic differences between the churches I'm a little lost as to how these differences should/shouldn't be interpreted. If we're going to be looking at the church as the center of the community/society, how are we supposed to wrestle with the divisions within the church itself?
Why was Moses disfigured? Why did he have horns? Is the god in the old testament actually the demiurg/Baal/Satan and has nothing to do with the loving and caring LORD of the new testament? Who knows....
....you know.
Sounds like the Freudian idea that the unconscious will give you a word that actually expressed multiple of your ideas at once
In the great divorce by c.s. Lewis there is a man with the demon of lust. An angel destroys the demon and it becomes a horse. The man then rides the horse to heaven.
Ther Jerome horns translation is a really interesting one actually! I did a bit of reading about it and i think the Hebrew word for a ray of light is the same as a horn. You can think of certain animal horns having the same conical shape as being one aspect of this. This also draws a connection with the horns on the corners of the altar, and that Moses in a certain sense becomes an altar to the people Israel. Horns as a symbol of strength also aligns with light as a symbol of glory.
Michaelangelo's depiction of Moses "horns" resemble the tablets of the Law which adds another view of the glory and burden that Moses took on. And you can't carve light easily so having a concrete symbol has a certain artistic utility :P
the horn-crown relationship is pretty similar and adds even more depth!
Are you hinting towards transhumanism and/or consciousness upload at the end of the video?
This idea of light being the same as the layers around us and horns being the same as crowns is twisting and stretching it a little bit too far off for me. But then again, my knowledge is way lower than yours, so all the things you say might make sense for your background knowledge.
"The garments of skin" were clothing, a real thing look in the bible. God gave them to, Adam and Eve they gave to Enoch whom gave them to Methuselah, whom gave them to Noah, Ham took them and gave them to Cush, to Nimrod. they also had magical properties too.
A very postmodern train of thought you got going on here 😉
A mistake that creates something meaninful.
Do you believe in evolution? I ask because your belief either way will bias your interpretation of symbols.
I don't think it would matter at all in terms of meaning, but only in terms of explaining the material causality of how the patterns emerged, which is rather secondary to what they can teach us about how to exist in the world. To answer your question, I don't mind evolution, but I also wouldn't go so far as to say I believe in it, since belief implies a kind of trust and consideration. Just like it would be silly for me to say that I "believe" in oxidation or photosynthesis, evolution is rather irrelevant to the things that have importance for me.
as one english orthodx prist saed that the discucion between pro-evolutionist and anti evolutions is like talk between aristotelian and platonist.
Sounds a bit like a Jungian idea that at extremes, opposites meet.