6-71 BLOWER vs TORQSTORM-383 STROKER SBC BLOWER TEST
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- BPE CRATE MOTOR BOOST. ROOTS VS CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGER. WHO DOES BOOST BETTER? CHECK OUT THIS TEST COMPARING A TORQSTORM CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGER TO THE 6-71, POSITIVE-DISPLACEMENT, ROOTS SUPERCHARGER. BOTH BLOWERS WERE COMPARED ON THE SAME 383 SBC POWER ADDER CRATE MOTOR FROM BLUE PRINT ENGINES. TO SPICE THINGS UP BEFORE THE BLOWER TEST, WE ALSO RAN THE POWER ADDER 383 STROKER WITH A ZEX NITROUS KIT! IT'S ALL HERE.
Let’s talk price difference. No hole in hood. Torque storm very impressive
I totally agree also just a single carb instead of dual carb and not having to swap intake all are positives to me
But that roots blower looks like a huge diamond sticking out of the hood 😵. Yeah the torque storm is awesome though. Depends on if you want to see the blower while you're driving though I guess. Personally I've always liked the look of a big polished blower sticking out of the hood and the loud whine. But those centrifugal blowers can make just as much if not more power and be hidden.
It would a lot easier in the pits without a crowd around your car too.
@@CarsandCats is this English? Lol
I think the 6-71 is about sound and presence, especially on a big block when it makes the ground shake.
I like the 6-71 blowers for the low end punch rite off idle when ya mash the peddle !
That torque storms torque curve was a lot flater than I expected
Rootes (the original spelling) blowers were designed as mine ventilation devices in England in the 1800's. The originals were straight rotors with leather seals on the case. Not terribly efficient, but it was far better than nothing. Those we have now are MUCH smaller, better sealed, more efficient and lighter than the behemoths they began as. That said, they require power to run, and turbos will come out better in the efficiency equation. If a blower of any kind (TorqStorm, Paxton, Roots) is driven off the engine's crank, there will be power used to drive it. Well, duh! you say. Expect some amount of power to be sucked up in driving a blower. There really shouldn't be any surprise here, but any improvement in efficiency in a Roots blower will be in tenths of a percent, and Magnuson seems the most efficient of the lot. They don't have quite the visual presence of a 4-71 or 6-71 Jimmy, though. Whipple? essentially redefined the whole blower. Different deal, and higher efficiency to boot. Any blower costs a bundle of cash, and you'd best have the funds available to feed your habit. I don't have the money, tending more toward the eBay turbo than the JimmyX-71 (or X-53) blowers.
Not exactly the results the magazines predict, is it! The curves are very close, what a surprise. These two power adders are designed to make MORE POWER that's the goal.
For me, used for a drag racing, both are great, but the 6-71 should be easier, less complicated, and the one I would try first, then move to the torque storm, on the next project.
I think the elephant in the room was the intake manifolds. Seems like they evened the playing field a bit.
I am curious if a Blower Shop quality blower would have put out more than the Weiand ? Love to see a shoot out on CD ignition boxes from brand to brand and blowers.
Yes, The Weiand is not very desirable, They use straight rotors that cause more pulsing of the air and who the hell still runs a Gilmer belt drive?
I was surprised at how the torque curve in the nitrous shot didn't stay up like the boosted examples did.
It never does. You would need the the amount of nitrous to increase with the climbing rpm. Just like a boost curve rising . Not that you couldn't but it would definitely take a level of knowledge and resources that most folks just dont have..or just use boost to achieve that result. Nitrous and drivability , only go together in this sentence..lol
@@artemusifasuenshuffleman8535 I can see what you mean especially on a NA setup. You can only feed it as much as the engine can inhale it.
What about a nitrous plate under the carb on the centrifugal set up?
HAVEN'T SEEN ANY TESTS ON THE NEW TORQSTORM STUFF , ALSO HAVEN'T SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE POSTING VIDEOS ABOUT HOW GOOD THEY ARE ? ARE THEY GOOD? DECENT FOR THE PRICE ? WOULD LOVE TO SEE A NEW TORQSTORM ON A CAMMED, PRETTY MUCH STOCK 350 LT1 FROM THE 90'S
lots of torqstorm videos up
@@richardholdener1727 REALLY I'VE SEEN THIS ONE, THE 302 VS 305, AND I THINK A BIGBLOCK CHEVY ONE. MAYBE IM NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH
@@richardholdener1727 THANKS FOR THE QUICK RESPONSE, I REALLY ENJOY YOUR VIDEOS. THEY HELP US CAR GUYS ALOT.
Great video video
So my question after seeing this is what does a blower spacer, does this essentially increases runner length
BLOWER SPACER?
Long before you was around Richard, horespower wasn't this ànd that , I to will challenge you rich, same engine, let's do it enstien, little hard for a 383?
this and that?
Learn how to pronounce Chevrolet...
Roots blowers typically take more power to turn and generally create more heat. I'd like to have seen the TS on E85 too.
I run a torqstorm on my truck and its more than impressive very solid unit and I have had zero issues with it awesome company.
Does this guy ever sleep?!
Wait. Am I talking about him or me? 🤔
According to Freiburger, Holdener does the majority of his work at Westech at night
Centrifugal makes more power with less boost. Nice. Would have liked to see the centrifugal at the same boost level as the roots, and e85 as well to keep everything even.
And more timing too!!
It doesn’t always make more power though. It makes a higher peak number, but average power tends to be a different story.
How about the Torqstorm with a good blow-through E85 carb 🤔
I would be curious to see the test results with torqstorms faster 3.1 pulley on the torqstorm as per the test it looks to be the slower 3.25 pulley
"We find stuff that we don't think should happen." That's as pure as it gets. No bias. Just results.
Can't wait to get me engine back. I've wanted to add a torqstorm sc for a while. Best bang for the buck and US made means american jobs 👍🏾
Very interesting results. I’m betting specific fuel consumption was way higher on the 6-71 setup. With 2 more psi to get the same power that’s about 60 more horsepower robbed off the crank to turn the roots blower. For a toy that’s no big deal. I’m thinking you could do better overall with a GT-45 but there’s nothing quite like those carbs sticking through the hood for visual impact. Thanks, Richard!
Use a real blower. BDS or something 🤔
like the test, but a bit disappointed you didnt up the pullies on the torquestorm as well nor did you fun it ono e-85
there were on 2 blower pulleys avail for the TS at the time-and we had the biggest crank pulley on it
@@richardholdener1727 ahh hope they step that up then.. love your videos straight to the point...
Richard, interesting in deed. Love your down to earth facts basis on your channel. Did you by any chance record the temperature in the intake manifold? I would expect that the roots had a higher temperature and therefore lower charge density. I would also have loved to see what would happen with a intercooler on the torqstorm. Thank you for a good channel
Oh, let's throw a variable speed drive pully like Robert PAXTON McCulloch onto this motor to boost low RPM torque!
Like to see small procharger against torque storm and roots. All at close to same boost.
What? The torqstorm IS A PROCHARGER
@@littledeel no, it’s not. It’s a centrifugal blower but Procharger is a brand name, and the best of them
WOW. The identical power curves blows me away. Especially after seeing the boost curves. The TS must be more efficient down low therefore generating the same power as the roots with less boost. Plus with the TS, it's way easier to intercool. Roots IC would have added another 3-4inches of height...but not needed with E85, like we saw in one of your other vids. Thanks Richard. Awesome video.
Parasitic loss was not brought up. With the flatter boost curve on the Roots blower, i think may have something to do with the power curves being similar
You should try running a single four barrel tunnel ram with the torqstorm.
richard, you must only sleep 3 hours a day! I appreciate all the work and expense you go through to keep your viewers entertained. another great video.
like I ever get three full hours! lol
Pretty interesting, easier to add Intercooler to the Centrifugal supercharger tho.
That and the same boost as the 6-71 if it could support the flow / rpm. 👌
More like what looks and sounds cooler 😂 i like root blower
More
By using E85 it just shows how much of a difference power wise it can add to a roots blower. That's why when you run methanol on them they make so much more power because it can cool that intake charge finally. The torque storm will of course make more power at the same boost because the intake charge is way cooler.
did you make any timing changes when going to e85
I used to run a 671 on a 327 in a 67 Camaro. In traffic you could lose a car behind it. Looked cool and loud whine attracted lots of attention. Tuning two carburetors is also a pain. My new project will eventually have a centrifugal supercharger.
If you aggressively cam it for low-low-low RPM, you should get a nice, flat torque curve, unless you just want top-end scream. With any blower, you will need more exhaust duration than for a naturally-aspirated engine, as getting the air IN is not the problem, getting it OUT is the problem. Dodge did that on the factory cam for the Hellcat versus the almost-same-motor 392 naturally aspirated.
If you like a flat torque curve, cam it for bottom-end power (but use as much lift as you can get.) then your centrifugal supercharger will take care of all the other RPM's.
I would love to hear more on that that's really good information thank you Mike
This man is so underrated!!!
Centrifugals are always the best combo for a vette . Light , less heat soak , more top end , smooth power down low and more power on less boost and no power fade up top.
I would love to see this SBC Torque Storm supercharger be installed on a 5.7L Vortec junkyard engine with a blow through e85 carb. Maybe pump gas for stage 1 then big cam and head work for stage 2 and ring gap, increased boost and e85 for Big Bang part 3.
So the centrifugal supercharger was more efficient in delivering power at lower boost levels because of the superior intake manifold?
The roots blower is my all-time favorite intake manifold. Most outrageous install I’ve ever see was Rick Dobbertins 67 pro street nova, with an 8-71 fed by twin turbos. Coolest car ever.
I love a rising boost curve, even with turbos. Makes for a flat torque curve, which is what drivetrains seem to like.
how come no one ever start an engine at the lower rpm range where a street driven vehicle would be operating at? {such as from say 1200 rpm to may be 6800 rpm} on the dyno? some of us do have a family that will be riding with us where the GVRW might be around 5600 to about 7200 pounds. axle ratios in the 3.08:1 to the 3.54:1.
can you send me a video where you are at WOT at 1200 rpm
@@richardholdener1727;on a road where starting off from a stoplight I have went to wot to get up to speed. so as I asked. how come no one start the dyno testing at 1200rpm? even our law enforcement have to go to wot from a stand still some times.
Richard , I wonder what the 6-71 would do with a bigass spacer , no intercooler , like Finnegan put on the poor ill-fated Thunderbird ? Would it be just another long runner vs. short ?
THE SPACER DOESN'T ADD RUNNER LENGTH
My na 383 made 610 @8200 maybe I should hit it with a 100 shot or 150?
you can run either or even more
How much more does the 6-71 weight over the TS? What were the intake air temps ( non-e85 )? What was the fuel consumption differential between a single 850 and the duels?
the fuel consumption difference would interest me as well.
Are you sure that blower case to rotor clearance and seals were up to the task? Seems like the boost curve should have been much flatter and even taper at high RPM due to efficiencies.
Would have been interesting to see good gas centrifugal and the nitrous plate used together
Roots are a massive heat generator. Good ole Professor of Power Gale Banks examines 8 million data points down to the specific air density and pulses per second at x cc lol.
The interesting part with his data analysis was when he hit a 1000hp smoke free on the stock LP5 dmax, the turbo and the intercooler were responsible for the exact same amount of power by air density with the huge temperature drop from over 400f to under 100f.
Roots are the least efficient blowers. Inefficiency is directly correlated to heat rise. The blower shop now makes a super cool water to air heat exchanger making the dam blower even taller. With that and Snows windshield washer fluid injection, you can really make power.
You won't believe this, but you can inject water at 50% of air flow. Reno air races sport class Lancair legacy iv runs a 50 gallon water tank in the copilot seat to keep the air cooled Lycoming happy under big boost. I can't imagine that in a street car. One of the Professors of Power was talking about it for racing at Bonneville? I want to say. I just remembered that the possible ratio is mind blowing. Take 600 degree air down to nothing with straight water. I'll find the info again, just something I thought might interest you.
Really neat how similar the power curves were.
Roots until the day I die.
Hi Richard. I just want to thank you for contacting Eric about the clover intake manifold test. Many of us are excited and hopeful that you can work out the details and test it to see the real life differences. Either way thank you very much.
€ :^) }
I have a pro-charger you can change the pully size on that also get more boost
you can do that with any blower
Can you run A 671 blower on a 10 and 1/2 to 1 compression 383 stroker
yes
Roots no brainer history will agree roots
Torqstorm for the win
I have a 390 ford galaxie 500 1967 with a Camshaft, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 274/286, Lift .562/.565, Ford, Big Block FE. And wanted to put a torque storm single supercharger and can i run it with out doing any work to the steal heads? Or do anything else to engine?
YES-BUT YOU WILL NEED A BLOW THROUGH CARB
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 650 4-barrel carburetor from Holly can I turn that into a blow out carb? Or whats the best replacement with the most potential? "Also a great video suggestion- differences between a regular carburetor and a blowout carburetor and comparison of regular carburetor model versus blowout carburetor models!"
@@richardholdener1727 and will i do any da damage to the engine with it running a 10/1 compression ratio ?
there goes the price of torqstorm
How much timing were you pulling per lb of boost?
I DON'T DO IT THAT WAY
Run the torque storm with E85. And raise the boost to 11 psi. I bet you get massive gains.
I bet a 250 shot of nitrous would have been best!
Do that and add nitrous under the carb, I’ve seen nitrous added to boost that works really well
we did run a procharger with e85-that made a ton of power
Thank you that was an awesome video I've learned both styles never was able to dino The Roots blower it was a 6-71 conversion I run a vortech V3 on a summit crate motor 383 with Abe ex250 shot of nitrous and she's a beast in a third gen Camaro I try to keep the setup Loki and she's pretty but not too fancy because I love going against these younger guys with deep pockets I enjoy it and we're all adults so it's fun but keep up the good work I love your video I'll share with others Mike
I was piecing together a v1 ti for my nnbs Tahoe with a built lmg with tsp prc2.5 799 heads. 10.5:1 compression. The customer support at vortech and the fact that many LS parts and brackets are discontinued unless you go a and a and then have to modify everything to fit Wich is no issue other than the price of the a and brackets,tensioner. Let's just say the frustration made me sell off all the vortech stuff to go tqstorm even tho I'll make less power there customer support, reliability and fair pricing is worth it's weight in gold.
I always wanted to see a destroked 400 and a big turbo
Thanks for all the great info . Never thought about intake runners making a difference .
Thanks for being smart enough to run e85 through the 671 and show us the results. I wonder how lean it was running with 99 jets in it ? Crazy that you tried that and awesome that it worked without failure of the engine !!!!
the AF was perfect with that jetting
ONE OTHER THING , WHY NOT RUN THE NITROUS, WITH THE SUPERCHARGERS ?
we have
Roots style superchargers usually make more HP one of these days you should run one of these on 120 octane race fuel and compare that to E85 and a 6-71 is just a baby street hot rod blower there not really for track use there huge to make your car look cool *( the smaller the supercharger the more boost it makes the huge ones make hardly nothing there for show like that huge 6-71 is giant when compared to a 14-71 which is what a top fuel car runs )* 12-71 or better is what racers run in roots style blowers 6/8/10-71 are basically hot rod street blowers IMO
I liked the test, and I agree the results are interesting. I am curious how much PSI can that 383 motor handle on 91 or e85 fuel thank you.
Why did you keep comparing the roots at higher boost pressure to the centrifugal saying they are the same? Compare both of them at the same boost pressure, 2psi will make a bit of a difference.
Why not a 250 shot of nitrous? That would have smoked both blowers!
HOW IS IT THAT THE 383 SBC WITH A TORQSTORM BARELY MADE ANYMORE POWER THAN THE 305 SBC TESTED BEFORE WITH THE TORQSTORM ?
Richard, very Interesting video. So more parasitic losses with the Roots style?
takes power to spin that big blower
That's a small blower and it takes very little to turn it.
Can you use torqstorm on lt1 5.7
yes-we have done it
The big 6-71 gets the "cool-factor" and has ALL the eye candy for sure, Torqstorm looks like a huge A/C unit compared to the ultra-cool 6-71 Roots blowers however TorqStorm rocks and can do a whole lot more than what is shown here. A whole lot more! The next pully would have put it around 14lbs and on E85 with more timing ??? 750-800hp? That's an A/C unit I'd like to have under my hood.
WE'VE NEVER MADE MORE THAN 750 HP WITH ONE
@@richardholdener1727 I was thinking that combo I mentioned would be good for about 750hp. Still a great A/C unit for sure. ;-)
This was a good one I am getting ready to rehab my 383 671 combo the e85 is a nice teaser
Why not a twin screw blower?
THOSE WORK TOO
I thought no one really uses Roots Type because they make too much heat.
Doesn't a twin screw SC make less heat and do a better job?
Yes, the Lysholm screw compressor is a true compressor rather than a blower like the Roots so the Lysholm is more efficient meaning lower temperature for a given pressure. But they cost more.
Dyno Facts Matter 🐎
Surprise surprise
I'd like the $$ difference between the two Please.🤷
Go to bed richard
A victor intake would have worked better than the dual plane. Never seen a boosted setup it didn't. TS was about 18% more efficient. The TS is the clear winner here. That being said, a roots type blower makes everyone look. They are awesome. TS is a great piece and would really shine is given a better intake with little water/meth from Snow hooked up. Would have made your E85 big pulley huffer look sick. Consistent and predictable boost line(curve lol) and the ability to street drive without the heat, makes a way better combo from the TS.
A SINGLE PLANE MAKES LESS POWER THAN THE DUAL PLANE BELOW 5500 RPM-NA AND UNDER BOOST
Love when you talk to people, even people who own the company that makes the blower and they say a dual plane intake won’t work. Needs to be a single plane… Did you have to run staggered jetting to get distribution even with the dual plane?
that has nothing to do with the dual plane-staggered jetting (from to back) is a function of the presence of a power valve
This is more proof that it is about manifold air density. Banks did a test similar to this with a sbc and a turbo at a constant 20psi. 1st run was no intercoer... 600 hp. 2nd run was air to air intercooler... 800 hp. 3rd run was water to air intercooler... 1200 hp. All 3 runs were at 20psi of boost.
Downside is that it takes a lot of sensors to have a gauge that measures manifold air density
Adding an ATW intercooler doubled the power? Something else changed
So the torque storm is just as inefficient as The Roots blower check lol. I would still have to go with the Roots blower and some e85
If the centrifugal were as inefficient as the Roots it would have needed the same boost pressure to make the same power, but it did the job at 1.9 psi less.
The bottle neck in this situation , is the cylinder head flow of the Chevy. That’s what made the hemis SO dominant , head flow.
they were both Chevys
I been waiting on a carb enging - boost comparison like this
At what size were the valves in the CYL HEADS?
Now you have to test a whipple to show how much better it is or isn’t also would be interesting to see a 8-71 I’ve always been told that with a roots style blower your not getting any real good power till you get to the 8-71 size
the video is up comparing all the different forms
Did I miss something what was the pulley size on the t.q. 3.1 or 3.25 ??????
3.25
Thankyou, and very well done.
Hi Richard, do you have a video with this engine combo with a turbo as well, would be cool to see dyno chart numbers
we did not run with a turbo
Thanks for this Video.
I still love the intro.
So what you are saying is that your 383 stroker needs itself a nice turbocharger?😜
like every motor
What's the longevity of these centrifugal superchargers on the street? Is this something you could put 50,000 miles on with a little maintenance?
Centris don't care, if you're not peak RPM at every opportunity, they'll last a good long time, though you should change the drive unit fluid on occasion, depending on the manufacturer you should probably do it at 30k
@@Prestiged_peck every yr or 10k miles as per Torqstorm requirement
Big block with two storms and a small spray of nitrous should get the job done well .
I ran my Vortech for 85000 miles-it was still running perfect when I pulled the motor for dyno testing
THOSE 2 750 CARBS ON THAT 671 ON A VERY MILD 383 IS OVERKILL !
PROBABLY HURT BOTTOM END TORQUE LIKE CRAZY !
sorry-that is not how it works
@@richardholdener1727 COULD HAVE EASILY GOT THE SAME POWER WITH A SINGLE 850 CARB, OR 2 DUAL 450 CFMS , MAYBE RIGHT ?
can you use nitrous to have the boost for a manual fake supercharge aka mad max style
A small shot just for fun would be a good novelty...kinda like dragging an anchor with your dragster will help you rip up the track..both are counterintuitive to the actual goal. But why not?
Does that mean the torque storm is more efficient and reliable since it made the same power with less boost?
THE POWER TEST SHOWS NOTHING ABOUT RELIABILITY