Not to the exclusion of the Church He delivered to His saints. This is why the Church, the Orthodox Church, with its sacraments and common labor, is called Christ's body. Christ himself, He who is the very essence, word, and image of God is the head of that Church, and the head and the body should never be separated. It is not proper. Christ delivers us into His body, in fact he lets us partake of that body, as the means he has assigned for us to work out our salvation. It is, furthermore, the means for that personal relationship you're describing. God be with you, have a great morning.
Nick Moser I don’t say it is :) I just say it’s questionable. As far as I know the only credible source is one quote (or was it a vision?) from st. Anthony, but feel free to educate me further in this matter. That’s however not the only reason why it’s questionable. It’s questionable because of theology. Think about it, in the tollhouse theory it’s as if the demons have any kind of power, some kind of a “right” to be there, which they don’t. There is only Christ in death, nothing else. He destroyed death by death as we sing in the liturgy. And demons are servants of death. I would first and foremost talk with your priest or your spiritual father on this issue, not only because it’s questionable, but because it also can introduce a great anxiety, since the tollhouses are totally impossible to pass for an absolute majority of us, which doesn’t square with the notion that in the name of Christ we are all saved. Sure, there will be temptations in the end, we can read our Revelation to see that, but the tollhouse theory took this way too far. I think it sprouts from Romanian - or was it Thracian? Serbian? - folklore that comes out of their ancient pre-Christian roots. This is at least what I read in the Mircea Eliade (a renowned religionist) book “the history of religious thought”... PS: I remember now the work of St. John Climacus, The ladder of divine ascent and the icon that comes with it kind of suggests something like tollhouses, but that’s considering the ascetic and mystical practices of us, living, not the dead.
You are what you confess with your mouth you are. So to recite the 'Jesus Prayer' in any form restrains you from any direct experience. Repent in the Bible does not mean feel sorry for. It is a turning away from the flesh man to the inner man, The Son of Man. Who not once named you a sinner, but a Light house. Yes we all have sinned, but that is not who you are. That is who you are turning away from to become the perfected man
Mystical Theology is, of course, a contradictory term. If you are a mystic, the nature of God is revealed to you by deep insight into the Divine. If you are a theologian, you can only speculate about the nature of God but ultimately it will never be revealed to your intellect. One could also say that the mystic is known by God and therefore has direct union with God, whereas the theologian is not know by God and therefore has no direct union with God. It is not as Kallistos Ware says, that through baptism and holy communion all Christian enter into a direct union with Christ. That I am afraid is purely wishful thinking, and the sorry state of the world proves that it is not the case. Only by the grace of God will we enter into a union with God and be known by God. Christians are only baptised with water, the baptism of John, a baptism of repentance. By the grace of God we will enter the baptism of Christ, the baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit, in the course of our lives and only then will we be in direct union with God. Then we will be true mystics and far from the guesswork and the speculations of theologians.
Spoken like a true idiot. Study to show thyself approved. It is easy for the unlearned to attempt to mock the highly educated and mystical Metropolitan Ware. Only by the blood of Jesus spilt at calvary and true repentance can one be saved. Ignorant people always think they are so smart but only have a partial understanding of the truth and think themself a true disciple. You don't even understand a sound theological construct of Christianity. You just spout off ignorance.
mysticism occurs when someone is completely lost within their own consciousness - unable to tell appearances and reality apart. All mysticism is unreal
Spirituality is reality. In many cases it is even more real than physical reality because it reveals who created our physical reality which is the second person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.
That's what he meant by this being a slippery word. Certainly, some that say "mysticism" mean that. But if you understood him, you'd see that Orthodox mysticism is a very different thing
Just got into The Jesus Prayer. How wonderful it is to find out christians have this meditation to practice.
Thank you
☦
Direct personal experience of God = Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ
Not to the exclusion of the Church He delivered to His saints.
This is why the Church, the Orthodox Church, with its sacraments and common labor, is called Christ's body. Christ himself, He who is the very essence, word, and image of God is the head of that Church, and the head and the body should never be separated.
It is not proper. Christ delivers us into His body, in fact he lets us partake of that body, as the means he has assigned for us to work out our salvation. It is, furthermore, the means for that personal relationship you're describing.
God be with you, have a great morning.
Are Aerial toll houses are a form of heresy?
Nick Moser .......no.
@@theclassic6198 thanks
No, but it’s questionable and based on some Balkan nation’s folklore
@@thedisintegrador well I looked up and there's actual evidence in it with patristic writing. So no it is not heresy
Nick Moser I don’t say it is :) I just say it’s questionable. As far as I know the only credible source is one quote (or was it a vision?) from st. Anthony, but feel free to educate me further in this matter. That’s however not the only reason why it’s questionable. It’s questionable because of theology. Think about it, in the tollhouse theory it’s as if the demons have any kind of power, some kind of a “right” to be there, which they don’t. There is only Christ in death, nothing else. He destroyed death by death as we sing in the liturgy. And demons are servants of death.
I would first and foremost talk with your priest or your spiritual father on this issue, not only because it’s questionable, but because it also can introduce a great anxiety, since the tollhouses are totally impossible to pass for an absolute majority of us, which doesn’t square with the notion that in the name of Christ we are all saved.
Sure, there will be temptations in the end, we can read our Revelation to see that, but the tollhouse theory took this way too far.
I think it sprouts from Romanian - or was it Thracian? Serbian? - folklore that comes out of their ancient pre-Christian roots. This is at least what I read in the Mircea Eliade (a renowned religionist) book “the history of religious thought”...
PS: I remember now the work of St. John Climacus, The ladder of divine ascent and the icon that comes with it kind of suggests something like tollhouses, but that’s considering the ascetic and mystical practices of us, living, not the dead.
You are what you confess with your mouth you are. So to recite the 'Jesus Prayer' in any form restrains you from any direct experience. Repent in the Bible does not mean feel sorry for. It is a turning away from the flesh man to the inner man, The Son of Man. Who not once named you a sinner, but a Light house.
Yes we all have sinned, but that is not who you are. That is who you are turning away from to become the perfected man
Some of these comments are deeply ignorant. The more verbose, the more ignorant. May God help us all to understand more 🙏☦️
🕯🏁
Mystical Theology is, of course, a contradictory term. If you are a mystic, the nature of God is revealed to you by deep insight into the Divine. If you are a theologian, you can only speculate about the nature of God but ultimately it will never be revealed to your intellect. One could also say that the mystic is known by God and therefore has direct union with God, whereas the theologian is not know by God and therefore has no direct union with God.
It is not as Kallistos Ware says, that through baptism and holy communion all Christian enter into a direct union with Christ. That I am afraid is purely wishful thinking, and the sorry state of the world proves that it is not the case. Only by the grace of God will we enter into a union with God and be known by God. Christians are only baptised with water, the baptism of John, a baptism of repentance. By the grace of God we will enter the baptism of Christ, the baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit, in the course of our lives and only then will we be in direct union with God. Then we will be true mystics and far from the guesswork and the speculations of theologians.
Spoken like a true idiot. Study to show thyself approved. It is easy for the unlearned to attempt to mock the highly educated and mystical Metropolitan Ware. Only by the blood of Jesus spilt at calvary and true repentance can one be saved. Ignorant people always think they are so smart but only have a partial understanding of the truth and think themself a true disciple. You don't even understand a sound theological construct of Christianity. You just spout off ignorance.
@@blessedamerican3541 we must be kind to protestants
It seems to me at least that a theology that rejects the mystical is materialistic and falls short of meaning.
mysticism occurs when someone is completely lost within their own consciousness - unable to tell appearances and reality apart. All mysticism is unreal
Spirituality is reality. In many cases it is even more real than physical reality because it reveals who created our physical reality which is the second person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.
Actually, it is an evolved psychological life preserver. It straightens a person out really quickly.
That's what he meant by this being a slippery word. Certainly, some that say "mysticism" mean that. But if you understood him, you'd see that Orthodox mysticism is a very different thing