The Gospel IS Theosis: Direct Knowledge of God - Jay Dyer
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- #orthodox #jaydyer #theosis
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For us there are no dialectics: creation is not set against divine energy and presence, but is in fact its intended telos. God thus manifests His uncreated glory in time and space and in multitudes of created forms: upon this hangs the reality of the Gospel and the reality of the Incarnation as a deification of Christ's humanity, and by extension, us who participate in His deified flesh. Anything else is Arian heresy. Like His humanity or the sacraments, created forms really and truly thus become vehicles of uncreated reality and not 'created grace.' The light of Mt. Tabor is uncreated and so is the light we partake of, divine grace - hesychasm. And to add fuel to this fire, virtually all Protestants also teach grace is created, too! - Розваги
When I started looking for the Truth, I never expected that it would lead me to this. Thank you so much Jay. Jesus Christ is the Truth. You are the real thing Jay.
You are very naive if you actually believe that what is said in this video is "the truth". Jay Dyer is a false teacher.
Tell me about it
Greetings from Orthodox Bulgaria, thank you for the video.I'm always amazed when I see so enlightened people outside native Orthodox countries
EmSiGer Praise God for He truly is omnipresent! Everywhere shedding His light on us and pouring blessings from on high! 🙌
I was at catholic mass today and the priest gave a teaching from a sufi (Islamic mystic) that essentially pushed for ecumenism. Not even a murmur in the congregation, but the last straw for me. Too bad I cannot find an orthodox church nearby but I've just received my orthodox study bible.
Le Rational SkepticTM The priest was quoting a poem by Rumi, I believe, that basically said we should all call God by a name personally made up by each and every one of us. He calls God "perfect dancer". I refer to God as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I found it very strange that Islamic mysticism was injected into a Catholic mass, especially because it had nothing to do with the readings of the day.
Le Rational SkepticTM Those are all good but "perfect dancer" is not in scripture. I'm no theologian but that seems like a slippery slope towards inventing your own religion and therefore heresy. I'd also rather hear from St Augustine or Thomas Aquinas etc. in a Catholic mass and not an Islamic mystic. I enjoy looking at things from different perspectives but if I wanted that one, I would go to a mosque.
Destynation Y Thank you very much for your message, sadly it is more meaningful to me than any personal interaction I've had in some time. I've lightened up on the priest who I judged and have gone back to the same church for service. I was baptized in a Catholic church but my family did/does not go to church or take scripture seriously so I am just now starting to really take my faith seriously and study all that I can regarding the history of the church. I do not currently have enough understanding to make a discernment whether orthodoxy or catholicism is best, but I can say that both are superior to protestantism. Mr Dyer certainly makes strong arguments but I will ultimately need to decide for myself and I promise that I will not discard my catholic heritage carelessly, but my orthodox study bible has been far more useful and explanatory to me than my catholic bible. Peace be with you!
My sister in law in Chicago complained that the priests for their Church have quoted Ghandi and Rumi. Her 90 year old Polish grandma was livid.
@@VirginMostPowerfull The reasons why there more RC's is due to the expansion of the West thru the Age of Exploration. The East was surrounded by Islamic countries and Communism. However, may are discovering Orthodoxy's changelessness of Dogma and Tradition reassuring. What a Schism Church we are when even Rome admits our Sacraments and Priesthood are valid! JP2 even called us a "Sister Church"! Many in the West are becoming Orthodox! This former RC has been happily Orthodox for almost 20 years!
This dude is gonna make me leave the RCC
Do it. Catholicism is a flaming joke
The door to an Orthodox Church will be open for you :)
Your videos have helped me so much in my journey to Orthodoxy, Jay. Thanks for your amazing work!
As a faithful Roman Catholic, I find this extremely interesting. Thanks Jay.
Jay, thanks for this. As a cradle Orthodox, I wondered why I always got blank stares from Catholics and Protestants when I brought up the notion of theosis, the nous, and the Jesus Prayer (noetic prayer)!
Hello Jay,
I intellectually struggle when it comes to Theology, but your videos really have helped me.
So: thank you!
This Hass to be the best apologetic I’ve ever listen to on theosis. I am so thankful for your ministry on the Internet. You’re doing a beautiful work and helping people like me coming from Protestantism over to the orthodox church.
I assume this is the first video in a line of videos refuting the Dimond brothers. This is going to be awesome.
I hope he like has the video up and plays it then explains why what we believe isn't polytheism etc.. That would be real nice.
Elric Melniboné The claim that Orthodoxy is "polytheistic" is outrageous to the point of absurdity. This accusation if true would give the sedevacantist so much joy, it's just too perfect of an accusation, it cannot be true. What the sedevacantist posits in their video is not simply that the Eastern Orthodox are heretics but that they are also apostates by denying that there is one God. Because no Pope taught Eastern Orthodox theology was not just heretical but intrinsic apostasy, the sedevacantist condemns himself. From their perspective if the error was that serious one of the Popes would have pointed this out and the Roman Church as a whole would stop referring to the Eastern Church members as simply heretical but also apostate for "denying the Trinity".
@@Gonicksomestuff Because distiction doesn't mewn seperation. The most holy family basketball court knows this because they believe in the trinity
Superb once again. Thanks jay from Wales in the UK. A place whose Protestantism looks far more like Judaism
You are one in a billion Jay😘
Jay, I love you brother. Actually, I love the Holy Spirit working through you. Thank You.
You need to become a priest brother in Christ.
God bless you!
Georgian Orthodox here ❤️
Thank you, a good portion of this was a bit beyond where my studies are at AND enough of it made sense that I am glad you keep doing this work. Godspeed.
Jay - I recently stumbled upon your UA-cam channel. After 29 years of Protestantism, I started attending Orthodox services in September 2019. I struggled a bit between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, but your videos relieved all doubt. Orthodoxy all the way. Question -- Do you have a reading list somewhere that could assist me in obtaining the level of knowledge you have? It is incredible what you've been able to learn, obtain, discern, and disseminate through UA-cam. Thanks so much.
Rock & Sand by Josiah Trenham, The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, Welcome to the Orthodox Church by Frederica Mathewes Green and Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Michael Pomazansky. God bless you friend ☦️
Another incredible video Jay! Thank you for another excellent description of the facts. Liked and shared! God bless
Go on my son, get in there! This is quality
Amazing, thank you Jay! Even a dummy like me could understand it now! Praise God for enabling me to grasp these awesome truths!
My current favourite Jay talk!
This is great,keep going,no one teaches this stuff locally!
Thanks, Jay. More of this please.
Another good one, Jay. Thank you.
9:50 Wasn't it agreed by the church fathers that Christ is fully man and fully God? This is why Saint Maximus was exiled and mutilated, it was because the emperor didn't believe in this.
Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, but would you say this difference you talk about in the video, would result in the different ways East and West understood Jesus? for example, it seems to me the West always understood the Christian way to be an imitation of Christ, or, rather, the suffering of Jesus in his Human "nature". That's why you have all the "imitations of Christ" in the West, with Assisi, and Jesus always depicted as suffering in the cross, and etc. Now in the East, it seems they focused way more in the Divine Nature of Christ, with his "monarchical" robes and sited on his throne as the judge of humans. Would you say this difference has roots in Christology?
Yes
Great job Jay.
Jay absolutely goes all in. Great videos
Do you have a video that shows the difference between what new Agers teach about becoming God vs Theosis
tried to listen but no one rubbed mayo all over themselves in this vid
Brilliant!
Man I would love to have a conversation with this guy. I’ve been a pastors kid my entire life but this stuff goes right over my head.
I'd be interested to see Jay Dyer debate Curt Doolittle. Sparks would fly I'm sure
Whew, a lot here to chew on. I will have to listen to your video's over and over to gain mastery of the subject, but its worth it.
Exactly !
Thxs gave me some homework ❤
reminds me of when i read van til for the first time. i think i'm going to need to watch this a few times and look up all the references.
Second watch bro, still as good
This is the Truth
We are all already participating in God's life simply by being alive. In truth we don't have a life of our own but the life we have been given, which is God's very own life, can be taken from us if we live contrary to God's will; so it's not about our gaining anything rather it's about keeping what we have been given and about coming to the realization that God is everything and we are quit literally nothing. We don't gain Theosis but rather we wake up to that realization of God.
Nice.
Jay, please consider not wearing a cap when doing your videos. This is so much better.
Bertie Brits, I love your teachings!
Didn't know you were a fan of Jay Dyer's?? Are you looking into one of the more Ancient Traditions (Catholic or EO??).
@@thekingslady1 I haven watched him for a while. I like his presuppositional argument for the existence of God. He is way above me intellectually and i take what I can understand.
Quick question! Should the Angel of the Lord be understood as the hypostasis of God the Son "as he is," so to speak, or rather as a manifestation of the uncreated energies?
is the eye of the soul, nous, like the "inner witness of the holy spirit"? our spirit witnessing and communing with the holy spirit?
Excellent! To add to your points on Western mysticism and its sometimes allowing for direct experience of God...consider St. Teresa of Avila, and the following passage from Evelyn Underhill's classic ""Mysticism." Teresa struggled tremendously with the issue of how to reconcile her experiences of God with Catholic views on created grace...and I quote...
Thus St. Teresa writes of her own experience, with her usual simplicity and directness, "In the beginning it happened to me that I was ignorant of one thing--I did not know that God was in all things: and when He seemed to me to be so near, I thought it impossible. Not to believe that He was present was not in my power; for it seemed to me, as it were, evident that I felt there His very presence. Some unlearned men used to say to me, that He was present only by His grace. I could not believe that, because, as I am saying, He seemed to me to be present Himself: so I was distressed. A most learned man, of the Order of the glorious Patriarch St. Dominic, delivered me from this doubt, for he told me that He was present, and how He communed with us: this was a great comfort to me." [496]
Again, "An interior peace, and the little strength which either pleasures or displeasures have to remove this presence (during the time it lasts) of the Three Persons, and that without power to doubt of it, continue in such a manner that I clearly seem to experience what St. John says, That He will dwell in the soul, and this not only by grace, but that He will also make her perceive this presence." [497] St. Teresa's strong "immanental" bent comes out well in this passage. (
The second man, the divine man, is our true self.
Have you ever thought about that the Holy Spirit is in the Father and the Son and in us; therefore as we experience the Holy Spirit we also experience the Father and the Son as well?
*Can you please debate **Vaticancatholic.com** on this topic (and palamism)?*
I intend to join the Orthodox Church and I would like to hear these matters discussed.
they declined
Bro this video is wild
Okay I have one question for you, what is the gospel
can anyone translate what he said for those of us who are the low iq laypeople ?
Satan just got body slammed by dis doooood 💪 😂
Your take on Divine Simplicity and Augustine is erred. We Catholics acknowledge The Holy Spirit as A Person of the Trinity.
Yet, the addition of the filioque clause into the Nicaean Creed subordinates the Holy Spirit, and according to St. Augustine the HS is the love between the Father and the Son, not a Person in His own right.
Great video. But the smacking lips makes it tough lol
Have you thought of debating a calvinist on your channel? In light of the resurgence of reformed thought among millenials (young restless and reformed movement), it would be interesting to watch you refute them in their cage stage.
matrixlone
Thanks for the reference. I'll check it out.
I would like to see Jay debate some reformed. Having come to Orthodoxy out of a Calvinist background, I think Jay could do an excellent job, as he already has in his old debate with Turretinfan, at exposing problems in the calvinist system. Calvinism seems to be the fashionable theology today, and Jay does an excellent job of articulating the orthodox worldview to the layman.
Calvinism is heresy. Period. Malevolent n shallow..like the fat bully on the playground
Can someone explain to me how defining God's energies as uncreated does not in doing so create another deity if they are indeed separate from God? I'm honestly curious. I have never heard of this distinction or non-distinction before. I am a very recent convert to confessional Lutheranism from being a reformed baptist. The things I focused most on were the sacraments- not something on this level.
Brinkmann Films here is an example: you in your essence are flesh, but in your actions you are writing a comment, both, your flesh and the operation of writing a comment are of you but your flesh is distinct from the operation of writing a comment.
Also Divine Grace/operation is always uncreated, as st Paul says that it is no longer he who lives but Christ who lives in him. When western schoolastics claim that grace is created they do not understand the gravity of the heresy they profess, it is the same as to declare that Christ living in st Pauls heart is a creature. In other words In state of theosis man becomes god by grace, not by essence, how do you think the prophets were able to prophecy for example ? What they said wasnt some created form they learned in a school, but they first purified their hearts through prayer and keeping the commandments and God spoke through them.
They aren’t “separate.” The 6th Council dogmatically accepts the distinction in “Christ’s two natural wills and two natural energies,” based on St Maximos’ work where he further defines it against Pyrrhus. Distinction is not separation anymore than the real distinction between Father and Son implies separation.
What's he writing the comment with then his nous or his finger?
Christ living in him is expressed by Paul as having the mind of Christ or bringing every thought captive equals walking in the spirit; this is the usual mystical chatting shit that wishes to reduce humanity by seducing him away from that logos or reason by which he consciously forms himself anew through grace to that measure of the perfect Man Jesus Christ. All else - philosophy so called.
You were not Catholic long enough to know about it and it shows.
Which church is the thumbnail from?
You can't say that God is a simple essence because in doing that you are attempting to define God. We have no idea about what God is in His essence. All we can know of God is seen in Jesus Christ and we can know God's energies in our own experience. We can know God as wisdom, as love, as truth, as light but we cannot know God beyond His energies. The finite cannot comprehend the infinite.
Maximus the Confesser was a Christian Universalist.
AN ARRANGEMENT OF PRAYERS TOWARD THEOSIS by George Engelhard AMAZON BOOKS
Paul mentions the simplicity in Christ.
Knowing God is being known by Him. He also says, “I never knew you, you workers of iniquity”.
How do you define the saving Gospel one must believe?
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
@ele-ls8db
"Jesus wept."
"Incorrect interpretation!"
what do you mean that even the wicked will be resurrected? the ppl who died without faith in christ? who do you mean by "the wicked"?
Jhn 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Jhn 5:29 and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
You are wrong on created Grace. Grace and Energies are the same thing. To Catholics and Cathecisim 460 talks about diefication also known as Theosis.
Begum Ordodox :DDD
t. Jelly Deier :DDDDDD
No, you cannot learn about Theosis from a book
this wouldve been a great video if you didnt misinterpret the roman catholic position 🫤
Except I didn't
Are Hesychasts Christian Yogi's? There is so much i appreciate in Orthodocy but some things s
No,,,,whereas Yoga is a pagan practice, Hesychasm is a Christian practice of meditating on the most Holy Name of Jesus (the RCC has a "Holy Name Society" which attempts to counter the abuse the Holy Name). Hesychasm is the Spiritual and physical practice of saying the Jesus Prayer {Matthew 9:27}. People have experienced the Uncreated Light of Mount Tabor thru Hesychasm.
@@frankignatius2507
I hope you understand that the "uncreated light" sounds similar to something out of Zoroastrianism with its sun/light/fire worship.
God being one his names, form, paraphernalia and kingdom are non different.
Reciting his holy names is directly associating with him.
WE MUST ALL REALIZE THE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
Krishna is a demon and is not a god so no
Bro are you a Mason?
What how did you get that he is a mason
Dont you know ? He is a kgb sorcerer
If you actually read the entire Catechisim of The Catholic Church you would see that your prejudices about Catholisism
Are relativistic opinions and not factual.