LOST EXPLAINED PART 14 - THE DHARMA INITIATIVE
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- Опубліковано 7 кві 2021
- #LeaveNoQuestionUnanswered #LOSTexplained
The fourteenth chapter in a series of LOST EXPLAINED videos that investigate the mythology and mysteries from the seminal television series LOST. These definitive explanations are based on multiple viewings of the show over the years and careful studying of the details, clues, inconsistencies and contradictions that make up the complex tapestry of what is the greatest television show from the 2000s.
Chapter Fourteen is a humdinger. It explores the history of DHARMA from conception to annihilation, but further investigates details surrounding their mythology and purpose. Other mysteries unravelled include when exactly the purge took place and who else might have defected from DHARMA over to the Others; what each DHARMA station's function was; how The Swan computer actually worked; whether or not the Others knew about the button; who was communicating with Michael via the hatch computer; what was with the Quarantine signs; who turned the donkey wheel before Ben; and what exactly was Ben's plan with Jack, Kate and Sawyer?
ABC owns all copyright. The footage and music used in this video are for educational purposes only and fall under fair use. - Розваги
*ATTENTION! For viewers who take issue with the text-to-speech voice*
All of these older videos have been entirely revoiced and remade in better quality (and feature A LOT more detail). They have been combined together as part of a six part video series called The Theory of Everything, which you can watch here: ua-cam.com/play/PL5iTj9psbPrNovFOg4pJJIyxiLAv2WAKB.html
Namaste! 🙏
Idk why but the dharma initiative was by far to me the most interesting thing about the show
Maybe that's why they decided to write the time travel element into the series and have some of our cast live in the Barracks with them: fan service.
There's something enticing about a menacing corporation playing with forces they don't understand in the interest of science. Putting a 70s aesthetic on it made it all the better
This shows was so above many pay grades, I swear. It's why so many are lost and cannot appreciate it. Thanks for putting all the info shared with us in a nice wrapped up packaged. LOST is the show that keeps on giving 12 years after it ended.
Crazy how I’m getting nostalgic from this lol. Ppl who watched this in the early 2000’s will know just how unbelievably grounded breaking and epic it was. Definitely the first of its kind in terms of cultural phenomena. Loved when they got into all the Dharma stuff and went back in time. What an amazing ride
Before LOST there was Twin Peaks and X-Files. But we had no internet to share all the love. But LOST truly brought everyone online together :)
I love the theory that Eloise turned the Wheel, never considered that before but it makes a lot of sense. Adding to this, it's possible she showed Ben how to use it specifically because she knew from Faraday's notes that he was destined to turn it himself and send everyone back in time.
I think Eloise Hawking left the island to protect her son (with the sub-marine), after the Incident in 1977. Ben knows everything in the island, and knew (like Widemore) to turn the wheel, at the the Orchidea Station, to leave the island...
Surprised that Ben didn’t take John down to the donkey wheel to show him how to move the island. Also odd that Ben says he never met Jacob and that Jack’s father & Claire appeared to John Locke instead of Jacob. What would be the reason to not present himself - other than risk of being killed?
@@NutmegThumper Ben assumed that "Jacob" didn't really want Locke to push the wheel as he never explained to Locke how to actually move the island. It was a misunderstanding of the instruction. Jacob didn't get too involved with people unless the island required him to. He wanted people to find their own way and let fate take its course.
Furthermore, the Christian we see appearing on the island is NOT speaking on behalf of Jacob. It is the Man in Black using Christian's form to manipulate Locke. None of these instructions about moving the island are coming from Jacob. The reason why Jacob isn't getting involved is because he knows that some of these events have to play out. Jacob is architecting a grand plan that will "fix the fault in the machine", aka eradicate the smoke monster from the island. And a lot of that plan involves letting the Man in Black's plan play itself out. Including moving the island.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Thanks for info. Did not think Christian was Man in Black. Wasn’t the cabin surrounded with a powder substance to keep out the man in black? As Claire was in the cabin also, does that mean she was corrupted too?
In the season five finale, Bram points out that the ash circle around the cabin has been broken. Then Ilana went inside the cabin, looked around, and came back out and said to him: "Jacob hasn't been here for a long time. Someone else has been using it." That someone else was the Man in Black, in the guise of Christian. I recommend you watch the videos on this channel that are related to the Man in Black, the smoke monster, the cabin, and Mother. As they all help to explain much of this.
Speaking of wheels and animals...
Locke: Where did you get electricity?
Ben: We have two giant hamsters running in a massive wheel in our secret underground lair.
(S03E13)
The way Ben delivered that line with dead pan sarcasm was hilarious!😎✌️
I’m gonna be honest, I’d be lost without you explaining the final pieces in this jigsaw. Thanks so much honestly you’re so gifted and a natural talent, the amount of attention to detail you use to simply things, im lost for words aha. But seriously thou, ive never once came across such an immensely talented and flawless person such as yourself. Whatever your name is, you’re absolutely amazing!!!🤟🏼💯
That is an incredibly high compliment. Thank you very much. I don't think I'm a flawless person but I'll take the rest! 😊
@LOSTEXPLAINED108 you know more than the Lost writers😊
I can't comment enough how much I love this channel. I can't get enough.
Loving these videos. Curious that this channel is so new, when most people have forgotten this show but just so happened to coincide with me rewatching it.
These videos have even given me a new appreciation for season 6, although I never disliked it like a lot of fans did.
Ditto! It’s probably a pandemic binge by the creator as well as us 🙂
Nobody forgot about Lost
Forgot the show? Those of us fans who love it are still watching it or reading about it over & over. I'm watching it through once again lol! We'll never forget. Thanks to various streaming channels new fans will always be arriving & perhaps needing a little help with a few questions 😉
Jacob told him to start this channel...
The Island made me do it. 😆
I think that this is the most logical and simple explanation for the presence of the word "quarantine" in some Dharma stations. Thank you for resolving a doubt that I continued to have. Also the issue of Ben/Henry Gale and his capture by Danielle. Plus, I never thought that Tom could have been a member of the Dharma, but analyzing that phrase to Sawyer it makes absolute sense. Excellent observations. Just brilliant
All these detailed analyses continue to demonstrate how Lost is a great show because of all its small details never inserted at random
LOVE THIS SHOW!!! Currently rewatching it!
This breakdown is INVALUABLE!!!
THANK YOU!!!
Also, couldn't sub fast enough!
Excellent timeline breakdown and interesting points I’d never thought of that helps
I forgot so much of the show and pulled out my dvds and started rewatching it again. From watching your channel I never saw the parallel of the conflict Jack and John had was similar to the Dharma Initiative and the Others. Once side (Jack/Dharma) Science vs (John/Others) Faith. When I rewatch it will now make more sense.
Your videos are very professional. The study of the show in-depth and broad. Well done, these tie up so many questions.
Thank you for your wonderful contribution. I do not doubt they will have lasting impact.
Am I the only one that feels like Lost was secretly a true story 💀
No you're not brother
It was written that good. This show. Sopranos and breaking bad will be watchable 100 years from now
Actually tho
The story is too good to be true
It can't all be fiction
I think somewhere this actually happened...cos
It is...and Fringe is truly modern day
Yes.
One of the best channels on UA-cam
Thank you! 🙏
Great job again man! You’ve explained some little nuances that I didn’t figured out back in the day (and I am a HUGE Lost fan)
Also I think Ben was allowed to return to the island because he turned the wheel incorrectly. Locke had to go fix it because it got stuck thus making Locke complete the initial turn of that wheel. Locke (living) never returned because he is the one that truly turned the wheel.
It's not a energy source rule. It's just an assumption made, because no one has returned.
Body of Locke returned on Island, so
Another great video. Can't wait for the next! I think individual episodes dedicated to Locke, Desmond, and Jack would work quite well if you are looking for suggestions. Anyway love the series! excellent work!
Just finally saw the whole series. Omg sooo amazing! These explanations are very cool to help fill in any gaps, so thank you!! 🙏🏻☺️
You're very welcome!
Loving these definently hoping to see more!!
man i wish Dharma Initiative was real and so was the island. i would love to go to the island and work there. its perfect!!
Well, I'll need to watch this again haha 😅
Great job, this really helps me understand some details of the story. Thank you!
During Season 4, Goodspeed tells Locke in a dream that he has "been dead for 16 years" which does seem to peg the purge of Dharma at some time in 1992, or possibly late 1991.
I’ve made a whole video on that very subject:
When Did "The Purge" Take Place? - LOST EXPLAINED FAQ
ua-cam.com/video/1vIdrQ4CQSo/v-deo.html
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Oh, nice! I'll check that out then.
I have a theory that you are really Damon Lindelof and you've fulfilled a promise to yourself that you would let the fans theorize for at least 10 years before getting involved.
Now that you're quarantined and between jobs you've decided to anonymously write these video essays just so that you can have closure in knowing that the correct answers are out there.
This is of course speculation but that's part of the fun here :P
LOL 😂😂
The show had not enough answers?... the universe has a way of course-correcting itself
Yes, I wish. But who knows. Maybe…
The more I watch the show, the more I understand why the purge happened. Mother told her sons that people would always want more of the light, which damages the island. Mother as the smoke monster killed the MiB’s people since they were digging too close to light source which could put the island at risk. She truly was a security system. We learned the power of the light with the incident at Swan station and how it caused Flight 815 crash. I think a hint the show gives is the map Ben gives Alex to go to the Temple. The Temple had a Dharma logo on it. I think when Ben was healed at Temple it probably led to the Dharma personnel trying to figure out how Ben was healed. The show never showed how Ben made it back from the Others to Dharma. I think when Dharma caught Others, they probably sent them to Oldham’s tent or room 23 to find out what happened to Ben and learned about the Temple’s healing waters. Maybe Dharma sent personnel out to the Temple to learn more and maybe that was the final straw. If the Temple knowledge caused the purge, if Jack helped Juliet save Ben it would have prevented Juliet from telling Kate how the Others could save Ben. Kate’s decision led to James helping her get past the fence which was caught on camera causing James and Juliet’s life with Dharma to fall apart…and planted the seed to Dharma’s downfall. In room 23, the film showed a scene that sticks with me…you are the cause of your suffering. That is such a true statement.
Young Eloise was a bad little hottie.
I'm glad you mentioned the cable. I thought it was a communications cable to the Looking Glass Station. I think Mikhail says that, too. But Lostpedia says there may have been multiple cables including an electric powerline. I can't see there being a gas-powered emergency generator underwater there, but perhaps a battery backup to keep the power on for a few minutes, long enough to call for help? But maybe they came up with a tidal or water current generator for the station. Still I like the idea that there could have been an electrical cable someone could have cut if they'd thought about it and dug for it, as an alternative to Charlie dying. Although it would be a live wire, so not the best idea, unless using explosives.
One thing that's been nagging me is how an underwater station, that's supposed to provide sonar pings to the sub, can jam transmissions to and from Naomi's phone, and presumably the radio tower? Other is how jamming works, which I just looked up. It's usually providing a more powerful signal like a high-powered radio station interfering with a low-powered one. But by broadcasting just noise or even static it's still a signal that can be traced. In the real world it's the content that regimes wanted to block, and there's little value to knowing where the jammer is located. For the island in _Lost,_ if the freighter crew can detect where the jammer is, then they can send a helicopter in that direction.
We need one on “mother”
Dharma was the group focusing on science…the Others focused on faith. Similar to Jack being the man of Science, and John being the man of faith and they both are in conflict. The sad things is similar to what happens in the real world.
Best lost video ever 👌
On A rewatch and your videos are life savers. Thank you. Some things I've never understood, apologies if I've missed any of this on as unwatched videos..... when did Kelvin realise that the quarantine was not needed, why did the lockdown in the hatch get triggered by a pallet drop and finally, how did Rosseau survive the purge? Did Kelvin and Radzinsky know the purge had happened? I know it's tricky knowing when Kelvin came to the island. Any explanation would be so so appreciated!!
I absolutely plan to address questions like that in my new FAQ video series. Specifically, why the lockdown took place; the dates and machinations of the purge, including how certain people survived; and more on Kelvin and Radzinsky's timeline together. I will be doing videos on all of these subjects over the coming months. Watch this space! :-)
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 that's really awesome to hear. I will stay tuned. Thank you for taking the time to reply and your lost bible!
Great video! Could you give me your guess as to who is paying the two men in the warehouse sending out the pallets of food and supplies to the island? It seems like after the purge the people of the Dharma Initiative in Ann Arbor would know that their people were dead and not manning all the same stations/experiments. So, why would they keep sending pallets? And was Dharma still a functioning entity in the US? 😊
After "The Purge", it is implied that The Others started taking over a lot of DHARMA's infrastructure and absorbing their resources into their own. We see them do this on island with the stations and the barracks, and with off-island sites like The Lamp Post. In the Epilogue, it is further implied that The Others, whilst under Ben, had been the ones paying the pallet loaders at the warehouse post-purge and during the interim. That's why he issues them their "severance pay".
But why would The Others still require this service? Well, supplies are supplies. Either The Others wanted to replenish their own stocks at the barracks, or it was directly intended for the men working in the hatch. Radzinsky and Kelvin (then eventually Kelvin and Desmond) still needed monthly supplies delivered. We know The Others left them alone to do their work in The Swan and that Kelvin also regularly went up top for walkabouts, most likely to retrieve supplies from the pallet. And this is what he was probably doing -- searching for the pallet drop -- when he came across Desmond washed up on the beach.
I was Lost but now I'm found. Like John Lock.
“The original button-pusher” sure does sound like someone that’s super good at getting under someone’s skin lol
Thank you and namaste 😄
Love your latest videos. These old ones are umwatchable because of the bad sound quality. Wasn't for that, I'd marathon your whole channel. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of your channel❤
All of these old videos were remade and expanded into The Theory of Everything series using my own voice, which contains and re-presents all of the prior information from the channel that you see here. So, if you’ve watched all of the newer videos from the past two years then you are completely up to date 🙏
This show had great acting
Im surprised more actors didnt have longer lasting careers after Lost ended
Cool video again! Sorry for the long response here :P
> Glass eye owner is Mikhail
It's still a theory though, since we don't know exactly that it belongs to Mikhail. When Mikhail was introduced it seemed to be his, but “Through the Looking Glass” revealed his eye to be scarred over. (It's not like a regular eye socket as those with glass eyes have). The makeup-department made it sure that it looks entirely closed. And the Bible that is there contains a missing Orientation film clip edited by Radzinsky. He could very well have injured his eye during the incident and it's his. Or someone else entirely. Even though Mikhail stands out.
It's too late to add in now, but I would also add that some of these questions that you answer are also answered by the Damon and Carlton on the official Lost podcast or in the season 3 bonus feature "Access Granted" ;) Such as "why didn't they cut the cable?" and "why wasn't the button pushing automated". They do bring out more or less the same answers as you. (They also infer that DHARMA had seen "2001: A Space Odyssey" from 1968 where a computer is the antagonist in an important manned mission).
> The Purge date and Kelvin
It seems like the writers retconned themselves since the script for "The Man behind the Curtain" dates it to 1992, but the timeline in the writers office in the season 6 bonus features has the Purge in 1987. I think they adjusted it in season 5 to 1987. I am in that camp by the way, believer of the 1987-date. There had to be some form of DHARMA alive in the real world seeing as Radzinsky or Kelvin could order new washing machines (manufactured in the early 2000s) to the Island. DHARMA being "dead" on the Island, but some instances function - either automated or manned - years later.
> Radzinsky stationed himself in the Swan due to guilt
Interesting theory! I always thought of it as punishment as agreed upon by Horace, Pierre and the rest. He didn't seem like a character that felt guilt :P But possibly he felt a change of heart.
> The conversation on the computer
The writers have said otherwise. From the official Lost podcast - 2/23/06
"One of the things that's frustrating for us as storytellers is we have these designs and we've known since early in season 2 we'd have this bit with the computer where Walt...where Walt - parentheses, question mark - someone claiming to be Walt at least...would communicate with Michael. And once Michael got back with the fuselage folk, he'd go rogue and go running after Walt." about planning the season.
Later, on the Season 3 Blu-ray they said:
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, we can say that was Walt on the computer.
Carlton Cuse: Yeah, he’s a good typist.
Damon Lindelof: But he might not …
Carlton Cuse: He has exceptional typing skills
Damon Lindelof: … or he might not even have needed a computer. When you have psychic powers, maybe you just think about the internet and you start IMing people.
I always liked the idea that Walt DID communicate with Michael at first (the ending of "What Kate Did"), then they noticed it (Pearl video feed) and then they used that to get Michael to go after Walt since the writing style became different in the Three Minutes-flashback. I think it could very well be through the Pearl computer (rather than the Flame computer) since we know that station has cameras for the Swan.
> Ben doesn't want the fabled John Locke near his people
I agree with this. Somewhat. I think that sometime during his hatch residency, he realizes that he wants John Locke near his people to prove to them that he is weak. Getting him to meet Anthony Cooper and showing the rest of the Others that Locke can't kill him is a master stroke and exactly what Ben wants everyone to see.
> Ben gets caught because he was on his way back from the Pearl
Hmm. Interesting theory! I like it! I might use it in my own video series. I am doing an analysis of all the treks made on the show and uploaded them on my channel. Still in season 1 though. You can take a look if you want :)
> Quarantine signs
I honestly think that there were more stations with Quarantine written on the inside, but the ink had simply washed away after all these years. The closest DHARMA station to the Swan is the Pearl, but Quarantine isn't written on the inside. Those doors had been regurarly opened and closed for many years as you say, with the Others using it to spy on the Swan.
> Vaccine
I love that you said that it's an upgrade! :D
> Date of installation of the button
I agree with your estimation of it being early 1980s, but I'll add in some more! I think it's at least before July 12th 1981. On the blast door map it says (underneath the Swan) that it's the "site of the H.G. delegation inspection 12.07.81". H.G. stands for Hanso Group. They arrived on the Island to presumably inspect the system.
> Eloise moved the wheel
YES! I am also a subcriber to this theory. It also make sense to me that knowing about the fact that he says it's "dangerous and unpredictable .... a measure of last resort" if he saw it/learned about it when he was a teenager. Such a mind-blowing event as a kid would stick in the back of his head for many years.
Some great points there. And I have no problems with length. I appreciate thoughtful responses like this. I'd also add that there will always be speculative parts to every video, where the line between theory and canon answer might blur. But I'd like to counterpoint just a couple of things you highlighted:
I would argue that the glass eye being Mikhail's is a no-brainer. What we see in the 'Through the Looking Glass' beneath his patch is simply sealed up scar tissue. He left behind the eye when he left behind DHARMA. A glass eye is discovered in S2 then a man with an eye patch appears in S3. I don't think there is supposed to be any ambiguity there.
As for Walt and the computer... I always take Darlton's off-the-cuff comments with a pinch of salt as they sometimes contradicted themselves. I honestly feel like they were just throwing out an answer to put the question about "Computer Walt" to rest and had not really considered the logistics of it. Their first response alludes to the idea of the computer conversation being a set-up, which matches with what we see play out in S2, whereas their second response is more tongue in cheek. Michael was being lured into a trap, this much we know for sure. The idea that Walt coincidentally gained access to a computer and somehow figured out how to communicate with the hatch at the precise moment Michael was standing at the computer (and it just so happened to tie into the others' plan) is far fetched even for LOST. Walt couldn't control his powers like that either. Michael was being watched via the hatch cameras and it was clearly a ruse to draw him out and away from the group. That's a much cleaner and logical answer to me anyway. My mantra for LOST has always been: trust the tale, not the teller.
I will check out your channel for sure! Didn't realise you were making LOST vids too. UA-cam can always do with more LOST content! :)
Wow, there's always something to learn about Lost and always someone to learn from. Been doin' Lost videos too... reactions. It's in portuguese, but feel free to check 😀 I'll definetely be using both your channel's thoughts!
I would love to see a Dharma Inititive prequel series. Of course 1974-1977 (the La Fleur years) might be problematic. Perhaps the series finale ending with The Purge.😎✌️
I think Michael was talking to Ben in the Pearl not Michail, The pearl had a camera to see when he was in there and a computer. It would make sense since Michael was the only one to get the message alert.
Yes, that is also a likely possibility. Although it is clarified that the stations can all communicate with one another. And considering The Flame is literally the communications station it is also plausible that the messages to Michael came from there. The Flame could also be receiving a feed from The Swan too considering its various monitors and incoming feeds from elsewhere. But I take your point about The Pearl and Ben, and the validity of such an explanation.
There is a scene in which Mikhail and John Locke are talking. Mikhail says sonething about "the John Locke that I remember..." , gets cut off by Kate. I only caught it in reruns on disc.
Namaste !
Minor theory: Back in the day, I heard someone posit that there were 2 purges. A first purge, in the late 80s, and a second purge, in the early 90s. I can see the temptation to consider it, as it would explain a higher rate of military recruitment in the interim, but to me it always seemed to add a bit more uncertainty. No one ever seems to indicate 2 purges in the show, despite the uncertainty. It could make sense as an option, possibly, though.
There isn't much in the show to indicate that there was more than one purge outside of the date discrepancy, but it might help to reconcile the fact that there are two plausible purge dates in general. Although it wouldn't necessarily clarify the problems of those flashback scenes in 'Dead is Dead' because we still have to account for Ben and Ethan being amongst The Others and how Baby Alex was raised. So, I think the same questions and speculations would still apply.
Agreed. The theory basically goes like this:
There was an attempt at a purge in the 80s. Whether it failed, was just intended as a warning, was reconsidered after the fact, uncertain. After that, Dharma became more militaristic, conflicts escalating.
More or less, the 80s purge becomes a failed purge, the 90s purge being successful. Or, 80s purge was an intense warning.
If they faked the deaths of certain people, or were vitally low on personnel…could make sone sense. Still uncertain/unclear
Yes, it's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't think it's totally out of the realms of possibility. Sometimes these headcanon workarounds are necessary to fill in the gaps in the plot, or reconcile inconsistencies. We know that relations between DHARMA and the hostiles soured beyond repair after The Incident of '77, so it would have been a slow decline towards the purge going into the 80s. I think DHARMA would have definitely started bringing in military personnel before '88, because they had every reason to assume that Jack's group were "hostiles" themselves and had killed multiple DHARMA workers at The Swan site.
Anyone else notice how this show just ended amd thats it. Nobody talks about it anymore. I think its on purpose because the show has so many underlying themes it would wake up too many people nowadays or somthing idk
Well, after MiB died and Hurley took over there wasn't any more conflict; required for good stories. I'm still not sure about the difference between denouement and epilogue. I guess denouement would be Jack dying, the plane leaving and Hurley offering Ben a job. The epilogue scenes from "The New Man in Charge," give us a glimpse of what happens some time later.
A good example is the long ending of _Return of the King_ where Aragorn and Arwen got married, elven people returned home, and the Hobbits made it back to the Shire. There was still some conflict with Saruman's followers, then about a year later Frodo leaves to take the ship over the sea.
Another reason it's not talked about is that the time loop seemed to take away the characters' free will or agency. We heard "what happened, happened," but now it's "what happened, was meant to happen." So there's no point in talking about what Locke, Ben or Juliet could have done differently, or whether another candidate ever had a chance of making it to the end.
Lindelof must have had a lot of free time in 2020, or as he called it Locke-Down ;-)
Michael got catfished lol
😅😅😅😅 Didn't think of it in that way but yeah he was 🤣
14:00-- man's name is Kelvan. Thats a JJ Abrams favorite.
Dharma initiative concept actually exists in India. Its called Auroville, located in the French town of Pondicherry.
Wow, had never heard of this. Just looked it up. Very interesting stuff. Thank you for sharing :)
They could have made Ben's childhood friend Annie a defector as well. Arguably a wasted opportunity.
I always assumed that they planned to make Annie become Ben's first love, and that she died in childbirth. Which fuelled Ben's obsession to solve the pregnancy crisis even further. However, because of the season four writers strike and the narrative juggernaut of season five, they had to drop this idea. All the groundwork was laid for this subplot to happen but it never materialised. As it stands, we have to assume that Annie was Ben's only friend as a kid and that she left the island in 1977 with many of the other families. It was the only real relationship he ever had with someone that was pure.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Too bad they didn't say _something_ about her. I imagined Hugo telling Ben at the church before they moved on, to seek out Annie, see if she still has his doll as a sign that she once loved him.
Informative video yet again. I'm interested in your opinion regarding how much knowledge Ben and the Others actually had with reference to the purpose of the Swan Station. You seem to suggest that they were fully aware of its importance, yet there are clues that they weren't. For example, when Ben was being held prisoner there and the lockdown protocol started because of the food drop, we see Ben, alone in the armoury, seemingly truly startled and worried by the process, as if he had no idea what was happening. There is also the fact that Desmond was left alone in there for weeks following the death of Kelvin. Surely leaving only one man in charge of something so important was incredibly dangerous? And surely the Others could have easily sent someone in pretending to be Kelvin's replacement to ensure a two-man team? It almost seems to me as if Ben actually believed the Pearl's orientation video stating that the Swan was nothing more than a psychological experiment.
I don't think it's possible that the Others did not know about The Swan, considering that Ben was himself an official Dharma Initiative member. He might not have known about the specifics of a lockdown in there but I can't really see how he couldn't have known about the button's importance.
Furthermore, the Others had an incredibly detailed and involved knowledge about the other Dharma stations (including The Staff, The Looking Glass, The Flame, The Orchid, etc) and frequently used them. The fact that Ben even knew to use The Pearl to observe life in the hatch is proof enough that the Others had been watching events unfold in there, on and off, for some time. How frequently they kept an eye on Desmond and Kelvin is unknowable. They might not have known about Kelvin's death and Desmond being alone down there for some time since they had their hands full with the crash of Oceanic 815 and the arrival of our Losties. If you subscribe to the theory that Kelvin was recruited after the purge, by The Others posing as Dharma, then technically they did install a man down there with Radzinsky to make sure he had help in pushing the button.
I agree that, logically, they should have taken full control of The Swan like they did with the other stations, but as we find out with Locke and Boone in S1, it was almost impossible to penetrate the station in order to get inside unless someone lets you in. It's the most secure bunker on the island. Either way, the likelihood of Ben and his people not knowing about the button and its importance, especially after The Incident of 1977, is highly unlikely.
I'm very much a believer in December 1992 as the Purge date, as per John's Horace vision, so I think that recruiting Kelvin would have been one of Dharma's final pre-Purge acts. I understand the logic of all you say, but it still makes no sense to me that the Others would leave such an important facility (the Swan) to non-Others if they truly understood its purpose, particularly when it was only Desmond. He opened the door for Faraday, so I'm sure the Others could've got his attention too.
@@drewc.4061 I get what you're saying; some of this leans more towards being a plot hole perhaps. But I prefer to explain apparent inconsistencies in-show. When Faraday knocked on the door post-Kelvin's death, he got a gun in his face. Desmond was hostile to any strangers. We see this at the start of S2 in how he engages non-threats like Kate, Locke and Jack. I expect Kelvin would have been the same, especially if he was recruited by DHARMA and was aware of the purge and what they did. He'd be likely to shoot first and be well within his rights. Yes, The Others could have attempted a "hostile takeover" (no pun intended) of The Swan, but that could have risked a shootout and damaging the computer, or causing another incident. I think it's reasonable to assume that The Others were limited in what they could do with the station.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 i rather think its a plothole from the writer. When u think about how easy ben sacrfice's someone when its in the Interest of him or his group. But to close this gap : it could be possible that jacob told ben to let desmond press the key in peace. Since desmond is a candidat its important that he will use the failsafe key
@@DonnyDeleto Yes, that could also be a possibility. Jacob did give specific orders from time to time, like building the runway and taking Walt. So he could have just as likely ordered them to leave the men in the hatch to do their work.
Also, I understand how it was possible to dump concrete on the Swan station, but how did they install that big electromagnetic conductor type thing and the fail safe with the key without dying from the exposure...?
If you watch back S2 episode 'Everybody Hates Hugo' we get a tour of what is beneath The Swan and Sayid explains the following: "This is the last duct. I believe we're under the area where we began. They poured concrete all the way down here, too. Just as thick. My best guess: There's a geothermal generator behind this wall. That's the power source. The last time I heard of concrete being poured over everything in this way was Chernobyl."
To extrapolate, the area they are crawling around is roughly the same depth where Juliet fell to in 1977. Jughead's detonation negated the energy for a long period of time. DHARMA filled in the bottom of the dig site hole with thick concrete to seal up the leak (like a filling in a tooth). This immediately limited the exposure to DHARMA personnel at the dig site. They probably started wearing hazmat suits for the duration of construction, including when installing the fail-safe and reactor chambers. They finish construction of The Swan in which they could closer inspect the effects of this energy, but the build-up beneath the concrete would have metastasized to critical mass. The computer is an early-80s build, which means Juliet had bought them several years of no incidents. But no tooth filling will last forever! By building a reactor (as depicted in this video) that could absorb the energy charge beneath the heart of The Swan, they could channel the energy and discharge its build-up safely.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Thank you!!! That is so helpful! You should do watch parties of the episodes and pause and explain things. 😂 I appreciate you!
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 You are definitely one of the writers no way you have that attention to detail🙂
I always wondered why Rousseau didn’t remember Ben kidnapping Alex
The Dharma camp is on the island of Oahu called Camp HR Erdman, a branch of the YMCA of Honolulu. You can visit this camp today. The cabins are all intact and standing. Not far from Camp Erdman is the site they filmed the hull survivor's beach.
is there pilons around it aswell?
@@4g3nt69 No :( the pylons were made of plywood / plaster and were taken down after filming.
If Dharma believed that failing to push the button was going to be a world-ending disaster, why would they only have two people monitoring at a time, and two people observing them?
I could see they could have come out with a book or lost story where its about new characters some familiar characters familiar locations probably unnecessary story but still be a cool story interesting perspective about someone man or woman arriving on the island could have been when the losties did maybe later but its them being part of dgarma what they saw and heard and their job and that dhatma keeps stiff on a need to know basis so this character doesn't know about anything happening just what they saw and heard befriends other characters and it's about these characters interacting working on this beautiful world they're going to save the world of course stuff goes south maybe one of characters could have seen the hostile especially one of them and there could have been a Romeo and Juliet romance between the two a dharma and a savage and shed be one trying to defend them they're not savages maybe a guy into little too into her finds out and outs her so everyone is against her of course the hostile comes to see her in secret but the savages found out about their thing too and Richard had told him to end it so this is last time they can see each other but that was before the excursions or there was tensions rising and there were bits maybe he got chased off one of other characters asks her about him why is she in love with him she plans to escape and go to him but something goes wrong that one guy stops her stuff happens there's excursions one of characters love interest or husband gets killed so there's grief and danger added to the story. Of course one woman worries for her Romeo and tries to escape being attacked by that obsessed dude she kills him in self defense trying to escape maybe she does escape and tries to get to that guy but something happens to her and she dies only a couple characters left now and theyre like a on again and off again they don't want to have their relationship complicate things or get into something and one of them die or something. Time passes and they continue on the island stuff happens but eventually by the end they decide to be together so they set up a meeting the girl waiting for him watching a football game or some of others playing a game then she felt like a tackle AR back of her throat a strange taste then sees someone fall down others laughing cause they figured he fell and was wanting him to get up then started feeling the effects themselves and they start making sounds a d start collapsing themselves the woman is like wtf going on she stands looking around starting to cough seeing everyone falling down collapsing some try to flee but succumbs to this invisible killer she feels herself succumbing as well touches her nose or coughs and blood is on Jer hand. Its then she notices her love interest few feet away he had the picnic basket and blanket he collapsed on she went to him rolled him over lots of confusion but they confessed their love for each other as they were purged like everyone else in her last seconds she sees others coming out appearing like reapers among all the dead bodies but these people had gas masks omg the savages they did this they killed them all somehow and she dies hand in hand with her love that could have been but her head had gotten in the way. Her sense of duty. She just wanted to come here and work redeem herself save the world but she made friends lost friends could have been with this guy the whole time she wanted to but she thought they had time plenty of time to explore what they had but nope thanks to the purge. Maybe she sees Ben is one of them maybe she don't but that's where it ends very sad ending we knew was coming lol. That'd be a cool story or book they could have did a different perspective of dharma and what's happening we see some of this on show seen enough but especially the purge scene be interesting from pov of the dharma as they're being purged the confusion probably how fast did it happen. I'd love more lost books I had to get that one they did that book Sawyer was reading in season one it was cool love the video game little ties to the show been cool to have ebook or story set in Island past or explores more of Island past loved when they had the island skipping and showing different time periods on the island I wanted it to keep going wanted to see more of Island history. Love that island and it's mystical properties and cool mysteries so many possibilities with the island been around since basically the beginning of time so many many people have landed on this island and left stuff behind built stuff destroyed stuff lol left their marks on the island lol. More perspectives or povs on the island and its history that'd been cool to have more of that lol.
19:28 Wow! I don't remember seeing Hurley being vaccinated by a DHARMA member in the show. Is it from a deleted/bonus scene or I just forgot?
Yes, it's from deleted footage that featured in a DVD extra feature on DHARMA. I think it was simply cut for time.
That's what I was thinking. LOST is more than 100 episodes. Some of them I watched for the last time years ago but I remember all of them and I remember them very well. Watching this scene here got me surprised too. I was thinking "No way, it didn't happen, I have never seen before Hurley wearing this red shirt and getting a vaccine.
Random question: Any idea why the orchid orientation tape rewinds all of a sudden? That was a weird thing right?
Lol, yes it was an odd moment. Looking back, it was really just the writers' way of teasing us as to what was going to happen in season five, i.e. they are going to "rewind" and go back in time. In terms of an in-show explanation as to why it started rewinding, it was most likely just the videotape jamming and VCR malfunctioning.
I had always assumed that Ben himself, at least, was unaware of the purpose and vital importance of The Swan station, simply because he willingly chooses to tell Locke that the button is a joke - that he never pressed it (even though he clearly did - good old lying Ben) and there was no negative consequence.
But then I heard you suggest in the video the explanation that "the Others... understood that it was a necessary task." And furthermore, among the comments found here, more than once you said that "the Others knew about the button without question."
So my question is: Why in the *world* would Ben have said what he did to Locke if he truly was aware of what would happen if the button didn't get pushed? I understand that he hated and resented Locke, and took every opportunity to screw with him and psychologically torture him. But Ben certainly cares about self-preservation. He would know that making Locke question the importance of the button could easily result in utter catastrophe. Is he so sick that he would risk everything (including himself) being destroyed just for the sake of messing with Locke? Or is there another factor here that I'm forgetting or simply never realized? I'm definitely interested to find out - thanks!
Ben already knew of Locke's legend by this point. As in: Locke was a disabled man who could walk again. He could see the reverence that Locke was held in among The Others. So, he tried to undermine the man at every turn. This was another manipulation. Ben never truly believed that the button would stopped getting pushed because of the two-man team that the Oceanic 815ers had established. It was a risk to tell John this but one that he felt was worth taking in order to plant the seed of doubt in the resident man of faith.
We have to keep in mind that Ben is a very arrogant man, who risks lives simply in order to flex his own hubris. He does this with his own daughter's life later on when facing down Keamy at the barracks. Except that time, his bluff gets called and he loses big time. We also see Ben risk multiple lives when he kills Keamy and allows the bomb on the freighter to go off. His cavalier attitude towards creating dangerous situations for human life for the sake of mind games, manipulations and personal victories are well documented.
The Others absolutely knew about the button and the hatch, and its importance. Don't forget that Ben was former DHARMA, as were many of them. The Incident would have been widely spoken of. The energy beneath the island was understood to be of great power. The Others knew of all the DHARMA stations and their respective purposes. Even Juliet knew what was going on in The Swan, as she tells Miles in S5 episode 'Because You Left':
"There was a man named Desmond living down in it. He was pushing a button every 108 minutes to save the world."
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Definitely a fair point about Ben's recklessness with human lives when it comes to what he wants. Maybe the one difference is that in this case, his own life is also at risk due to his making Locke doubt, and he normally places great value on self-preservation. It's true that he may have assumed there would always be a second person to push it, based on his observations while there. (That said, he *did* just experience a crisis with the lockdown during which Locke was the only person there for a pretty lengthy period of time, with no second person. But your point is still valid in general.) Ultimately, I think the best argument you made is that Ben's own hubris and agenda can tend to drown everything else out in his own mind, and all he wanted right then was to make Locke doubt and suffer psychologically. In fact, when Locke was banging on his locked door, asking him to be honest and tell him if he really did push it, Ben not only keeps silent but is giving the most disgusting smile, taking utter delight in Locke's frustration. So yeah, that probably is a sufficient explanation. As Ben himself said to Locke after killing Keamy: "Well, John, I really wasn't thinking straight. Sometimes... good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses."
Regarding what Juliet said at the start of season 5, to be honest, I never took that to mean that she had known all about that all along. I had always just assumed that she could easily have learned all about the hatch and what caused the sky to turn purple from some of the Losties after she joined them in season 3. Or even from Desmond himself, as they were together at some points, such as around Lapidus's helicopter near the start of season 4. Nevertheless, you're right that Ben really should've known about the Swan station, having lived with the Dharma Initiative for so long. I think he was still M.I.A. recovering from Sayid's gunshot when the incident itself happened, but you'd think it couldn't have been kept a secret from him for such a long time, if the D.I. people even wanted to keep it a secret from those not involved with it at all. And so anyone Ben might have chosen tell, like Juliet, could also have known. So even if she didn't talk to the Losties about it, she could easily have known.
Actually, there's one other question that I've always wanted to know the answer to: *Was* Keamy going to "torch the island" - kill everyone else after he got Ben? I know he himself used that phrase, and Ben repeatedly claimed that their orders were to kill everyone else on the island once they had him. And whenever the camera panned to Miles or Charlotte or Daniel when something like that was said, they would always stay silent and look uneasy. Because of that, I originally assumed that Ben refused to come out of the house because they were going to kill Alex (and everyone else in the house) anyway if he turned himself over. And so he thought that he at least had a better chance of keeping her alive by not turning himself over and trying to talk them down. But then in seasons 5 and 6 he says that he *could* have saved her life if he had just given himself over to them, so apparently that wasn't the case. Hence, I've never been fully clear about Widmore and Keamy's intentions. Were his orders to kill anyone/everyone else after getting Ben, or not? If so, then turning himself over wouldn't have saved Alex. But if not, then why did Miles and Charlotte *seem* to confirm Ben's claim that those were the orders - by looking uneasy and not refuting the claim. (I know that's technically not confirming the claim, but it certainly does seem like they were.) This one always bugged me, so I'm interested in finding out. Thanks!
I think Keamy's orders were along the lines of "Remove Benjamin Linus from power by any means necessary." Although "torching the island" is a very strong phrase to use. But Widmore knew that his mercenaries would encounter resistance from The Others, therefore Keamy was given a certain carte blanche in terms of how far he could go. But I fully believe that had Ben just given up and gone with Keamy, they would have left everyone else alone. That was their sole mission, which is confirmed later by Frank Lapidus. And also by Ben himself, like you say.
The hesitant looks that the science team give our Losties are mostly based on the fact that they are withholding information and knowledge about what is going on with the mercenaries and Ben. But they are ultimately there to do their own research. Although, the REAL reason they are there is because Widmore knows they have to go to the island because of the time loop. I explain this in more detail in Chapter Nine on Charles Widmore and Eloise Hawking.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Makes sense. So the explanation for Ben's assertion that their orders were to kill everyone else one they had him is the simplest and most common explanation: Ben lied - 'that's what he does.' :-) And I suppose regarding Miles being quiet and looking uneasy after hearing Ben claim that - well, he didn't really have anything to do with Keamy and his team. So in all likelihood he had no idea one way or the other whether the claim was true - he wouldn't be privy to the knowledge of everything Keamy was ordered to do. He wasn't confirming it with his silence - he just genuinely didn't know and was probably just as concerned about the possibility as Locke and Sawyer were.
@@stillgotyourmom It's not BS. There is zero evidence to suggest Widmore wanted Alex dead or gave such an order. And even if he did, the fact that Keamy happened upon Alex in the jungle was total coincidence. There was no way they could have known where she was going to be and when; the only reason she is in the jungle is because Ben sent her to the temple with Rousseau and Karl. They would have been safe in the barracks otherwise. Keamy was being opportunistic and used Alex to gain entry to the barracks then threatened her life to make Ben come out. Ben even admits that it's his own fault that Alex died later in Season Five. Had Ben just gone with Keamy, Alex would be alive.
awwww...dude...I'm trying to bare with this voice you decided to use, but oof! it goes right through me
You don’t need to watch these old videos. All of them were revoiced, remade and rolled up into The Theory of Everything series. It’s the same content only with more detail and in better quality.
LOST EXPLAINED - The Theory of Everything
ua-cam.com/play/PL5iTj9psbPrNovFOg4pJJIyxiLAv2WAKB.html
Charles could have found the island if he could find the warehouse that did the resupply runs….
I wanted to see the DeGroots come to the island it was so Stupid to never bring them into the show they were great characters who were totally forgotten and never used beyond stupid to do this when they were the creators of Dharma they would have been fantastic in the show especially in the final season.
Lol what??
Why does Ben put metal in the machine at the orchid again? I always forget what that does.
The Orchid's exotic matter chamber was built adjacent to the donkey wheel. This chamber accesses a "lesser" level of charge than the wheel, but it can still move matter through time and space, such as rabbits and polar bears. But Ben wanted to get to the wheel in order to move the island whereas simply using the Orchid chamber alone would only have transported him to Tunisia, presumably months into the future. So he has to break through the chamber wall in order to get to the wheel. To do that, he loads the chamber with metal objects that create an explosion, like metal put into a microwave.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 ah yes thank you.
Your channel is great! Let me stress that in order to not sound like a trouble making bully. Then, I have this to say: the only thing I do not concur with what you stated in this video is in regard to the polar bear found in Tunisia by Charlotte. I don't believe that Dr. Chang tested The Vault in the real Orchid Station with a polar bear. I believe that he tested the frozen wheel with it. Because, as shown in the show, the tunisian desert was the exit point for any living being that turned the wheel: Ben came out there, Locke came out there and the testing bear (as I believe) came out there. I find it rather implausible that they had sedated a bear and had taken it down to the underground station on the elevator. As I'm firmly convinced that a full grown polar bear wouldn't fit inside The Vault. But again: it's only a thought (though strongly based on what was shown in the series).
Yes, that is absolutely possible and I have considered it. However, the only reason I doubt that is because Chang says in S5 Ep1 ‘Because You Left’ is that they are not to drill any further into the wall, because if they did it could be lethal. Which suggests that they simply built the vault adjacent to the wheel chamber and used the negatively charged exotic matter to move the bear. Remember, Ben had to blow a hole in the vault wall in order to access the chamber, which means DHARMA simply constructed it alongside the pocket without accessing it. The vault moved matter through space-time to the same exit point in Tunisia without moving the island. Also, if you look at the entrance to the chamber with the ladder that Ben climbs down, there is no way that a polar bear could have fit through there.
But I agree that the orientation video for the Hydra suggests otherwise and implies that the bears were being trained to move the wheel. So, I believe that DHARMA was planning on eventually tunnelling into the chamber to get to the wheel. But they first tested bears in the vault to see what would happen. That’s why they had several polar bears there. I agree that the plan was to get the bears to push the wheel eventually. Whether or not that happened is open to debate and speculation.
But Chang only said that because they were drilling behind the donkey wheel. That is why they built The Vault adjacent to the pocket of energy (but adjacent atop of it as you can be adjacent to something over a three axis base. They left a way leading to the wheel because they had dug up to behind it. Dharma probably dug up a way around it and found the wheel: the proof is the parka with the Orchid logo and Pierre's fake name on it - Halliwax). Had they drilled further they would have had a result similar to the drilling at the swan site. Consider further on this: the missing piece of the Orchid orientation video shows a time displaced rabbit appearing INSIDE the station and not at the tunisian desert. Chang even cries out "don't let them go near each other". So it's clear that The Vault amassed only a small quantity of energy capable only of a small scale space-time displacement. Again: a full grown bear wouldn't fit in The Vault. And if it was so important to keep the experiment hidden from the hostiles to the extent of disguising the station on the surface as a green house why would they risk the ruse by leading a polar bear into the green house in plain sight? And a bear wearing a Hydra station collar came out at the tunisian desert. The bear did not go into the chamber through the small entrance Ben used but rather through the way around it dug up by Dharma.
Well the missing piece of The Orchid orientation isn’t considered canon since it does not feature in the show. There were many supplementary materials released around the time of S4-S5 that contradict in-universe info, such as Daniel Faraday recording a message by Chang (which we know never happens). So, I’m reluctant to include inconsistent supplementary material as canon. The whole “keep the rabbits away from each other” line doesn’t even pay off in the show or make sense in terms of the rules of time travel later established in S5. The wall that Chang is saying they cannot drill further into is the same place that The Orchid lab is built and where the vault is constructed adjacent to. If you look at the construction site in 1977, where the elevator stops and the corridor that leads to that rear wall, it precisely matches the geography of The Orchid lab as we see it in the S4 finale.
However, I am not anti the idea that one of the bears actually pushed the wheel. It does have evidence to support it. It’s just that evidence is inconsistent, which is why I offer up this explanation instead. Let’s say the bear definitely did push the wheel. How did the polar bear fit though the man sized vent that Ben uses to access the wheel chamber? It’s shown as being the only way inside that chamber. You say a bear couldn’t fit in the vault but it definitely couldn’t fit in that narrow vent either.
I’m not saying I totally disagree with the explanation that a bear did turn the wheel because it is heavily implied. It’s just there remains enough evidence to the contrary to hold me back from committing to the certainty of that.
It appears you edited your comment as I was replying.
Just to address some of your added points:
There is no other entrance shown to the donkey wheel beyond the way that Ben uses. It’s the only way in. We cannot make up an alternative entrance to the chamber for the sake of this argument. It has to be visually demonstrated in that location, which it isn’t.
We never see the vault used in the canon of the show so we have no idea how much energy it used or what it could do.
The geography of The Orchid lab remains inconsistent with what you are claiming about where the vault was placed.
Wrong: it was stated that the Orchid missing piece is canon. The Valenzeti Equation does not feature in the show either but for a mention on the blast door map but it is canon and you use it for argument's sake in your videos. I was editing my answer because of typos. I'm not inventing another way to the chamber: the image on the ultra sound scanning that the workman shows Pierre features a wheel and a already existing chamber BEHIND that wall both were facing. Behind the wall they were drilling. A chamber probably built by the same people who built the wheel. That ladder Ben used is metalic: it cracked with Ben's weight because it was brittle. My bet is that it had been placed there by Dharma, not the ancient builders of the chamber. Consider this: it does not make sense for Dharma to go and build The Vault without even knowing what it does (because in yout hypothesis they built it first and tested it afterwards). It makes more sense for Dharma: 1) Going around the pocket of energy and fiding the frozen chamber with the wheel (as evidenced by the parka with the Orchid's logo and Pierre's fake name on it); 2) Coming up with the idea of bringing polar bears to the island and trainning them to turn the wheel; 3) Discovering the space-time displacing property of the pocket of energy; 4) And THEN building The Vault to conduct experiments on the bunnies.
Why did the magnetism not completely destroy those computers and reel to reels?
Didn’t cop it at the time but the case digger at 4:02 is from the late 90s early 2000s kind of ruins the scene
I never understood why the Others allowed Dharma to come to the island in the 1st place.
The Others are supposed to protect the island, stop people from trying to take the light. Letting Dharma dig into the ground, create the Swan station and other stations goes against what the Others were doing there. They even had a truce. Doesn't make sense to me.
Oh well, it's only a TV show, not real :)
The Others had very little control over who found the island. They policed it as best they could but the sheer number of DHARMA personnel who arrived overwhelmed their own smaller numbers. Hence why they needed to plan "The Purge" to wipe them out with the gas from The Tempest (and recruit traitors from within). The Others were outnumbered and outgunned.
Does anyone get Vault-Tec vibes from The Dharma Initiative?
So, if they tried to automate the hatch, a software glitch might cause the discharge to fail, and the world to end. Soooo, the only reason the world didn't end when Desmond and Locke shut Echo out was because Desmond turned the failsafe key?
Yes, that's a fairly accurate summary. Automation wasn't as reliable as a two-man team at the time when this system was first developed in the late 70s/early 80s. But the reason why the fail-safe needed to be turned in 2004 was because Locke had destroyed the computer by that point and there was no going back.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 ... So why didn't the world end when Desmond was out following, then killing the ex CIA dude? He just happened to get back in time to enter the code and discharge the magnetic build-up, even though the counter had expired and displayed the hieroglyphs in red and black?
Yes, you've got it right. Desmond returned to the hatch just in the nick of time after accidentally killing Kelvin. He managed to get the computer to accept the code before the reactor reached critical mass, but he was cutting it *very* close as the computer was already displaying "System Failure". Whereas when the timer reached zero (and flipped to the hieroglyphs) in the season two finale, Locke had already destroyed the computer, so there was no way the code could be inputted and accepted after the fact.
It looks like the "system failure" that occurred under Desmond lasted a much longer time than the one that occurred under Locke and Mr. Eko before nearly destroying the place. The only difference seems to be the destruction of the monitor-interface, suggesting that being powered-on does something to delay catastrophe. Once smashed, they needed to install a replacement (if they had one, or if they hadn't already used it years ago).
But I think the whole point of why it couldn't be automated was there was some kind of psychological or parapsychological element, meaning the will of a human being was necessary to release some charge and keep the system going. So I don't buy the hardware/software problem being the reason people (or one person) had to be there.
We saw an automated version of the numbers being broadcast, which had been replaced by Danielle's message at the radio tower. It did what it was supposed to do: get one of the people identified by a number to the island through a chain of events.
Can anyone please explain to me why did Ben and the others not care about what happened in the hatch knowing that if they did not press the button the world could possibly end? It’s not just that they did not care about it, Ben actually lied to John and made him believe that nothing happened when he didn’t press it knowing that it could lead to the survivors not pressing it in the future! I’m so confused!!
I answer these very questions in a separate video, which you can watch here: ua-cam.com/video/GecPdvpKq0I/v-deo.html
Who Were The SENIOR STAFF of DHARMA on THE ISLAND That Maybe We Never Saw ---- I Felt That SEASON 5 Was A More Narrow View Which Held Back On Larger Concepts.
Horace Goodspeed was shown to be in charge on the island. And we meet most of the senior staff at the barracks, and even see them in meetings. Other senior staffers include James LaFleur, Stuart Radzinsky and Pierre Chang. Many of whom lead their own departments. The only senior staff we never meet are the ones who are based at the HQ in Ann Arbour, such as the DeGroots.
Watch the HBO series 'Yellowjackets' VERY CAREFULLY... When you see it, it will Blow your Mind!!
idk if any of you know this, but the DI was actually a reference to jeffery D, as he was physiologically broken, they conducted different tests on him before he was killed. so that’s why the DI decided to do phycological experiments on its assistants in the hatch, which is why radzinsky killed himself cos he couldn’t take it anymore, n then des was gonna kill himself as well as he couldn’t take it anymore as it was having a mental effect on him. until the oceanic crew crashed there, its all inspired on the events of the jeffery D tests.. which is why its called dharma jus spelt differently
DHARMA comes from the Hindu word "dharma", which essentially means religious law or virtue. If you look at the symbol associated with the word you will see it is represented by a wheel; wheel that looks very much like the donkey wheel in the show. That is the inspiration behind the name. Not a serial killer.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 well that’s what i seen, someone mentioned it on reddit, so i generally thought that it was true considering how much detail they went in to to illustrate how serious they were. n i may start watching lost again jus to confuse myself even more😂😂😂 but thanks for the heads up i appreciate it💯
Reddit is filled with factual info but it is also filled with people's own opinions, hot takes, mistakes, illusions and delusions. I've read all sorts of craziness on Reddit lol. Trust me, the poster made it all up. It has nothing to do with a serial killer, but perhaps they wish or thought it did because DHARMA sounds like his surname. But DHARMA is its own word that means something clearly connected to the themes and mythology of the show. You can find plenty of material about LOST online from multiple sources that explain the origin of ideas like this within the show. Lostpedia is a great source for stuff like that.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 yeah i should have thought of this myself tbh. but the lengths some people will go to to make you believe something is very extreme. n i have red through most of your sources n every one of them is filled with detailed information on how the island works and why the candidates have special abilities and about the others. n im glad i did cos if i didn’t id still be sat in work contemplating how to figure certain aspects out. so keep up all of your hard work, because the fans and me would be generally lost without you, no pun intended do you know why locke couldn’t leave the island to fly over o hydra island in season 6 i think it is, cos sawyer asks him n he says something like “do you think if i could do that i would still be here”
I am De Groot
Why did Razinski put hieroglyphics on the countdown sign? Just for show or what?
I believe the short answer is that DHARMA was just as interested in the Egyptian period on The Island as we are. Pierre Chang was reckoning with the wheel chamber. Horace's house was built adjacent to the old ruins of the smoke monster summoning chamber so it could be closely studied. They even had plans to investigate/takeover The Temple at some point according to Ben's map. The hieroglyphs on the countdown timer were an homage to those islanders that came before DHARMA who had figured stuff out about the energy. The glyphs in the hatch were most likely added by Radzinsky as a cruel joke -- they translate to "Underworld", which is exactly what the hatch is trapped within. And if the button isn't pushed then the same fate that befell these ancient civilizations will likely befall the current island occupants.
If the island moved prior to Season 1, how would the drone know where to drop the pallet?
The Island is always moving. There are no drone pilots per se. The drones are automated and deliver their payloads without pilots. And they fly to different locations every time, based on the coordinates sent over from The Lamp Post station in Los Angeles. It's all automated. The DHARMA warehouse workers that we see in the Epilogue just program the drones, load the pallets and launch them, and that's their job done. So, the drone will fly the payload out to the latest island coordinates based on The Lamp Post's predictive algorithm. Doesn't matter how many times the island moves, the drones will always be able to find it.
@@stillgotyourmom Widmore didn't have access to The Lamp Post and didn't know of its existence. He had left the island and The Others by the time Ben started taking over DHARMA on the outside world. And The Lamp Post was being run by Eloise Hawking, who was no longer a confidante of Widmore. She hated him.
Well, if it moved to the Atlantic (to intercept Yemi's plane), then it would be out of range of the Guam station, so they wouldn't get a launch order.
I have a question: Why does no one of the Others remember Jack, Hurley and Kate from the photo took by Dharma years ago? The photo must have been there somewhere so fake Christian could give it later to Sun and Lapidus. At least Ben or Richard could know that the picture exists, or even Lockes group in season 4 who lived in the Barrack must have seen that picture. Does this mean they changed time a little bit?
Outside of Widmore, Eloise and Richard, none of The Others in the 70s had any meaningful interactions with our Losties, at least not that we ever see. Richard remembers them but plays his cards close to his chest until he is asked, whereas Widmore and Eloise are long gone from The Island by the time Oceanic 815 crashes. We also don't know how many of The Others from the campsite in 1977 are still there/alive and whether or not any of them interact with our Losties in 2004 onwards. Most of The Others they meet in 2004 weren't there in the 1970s, e.g. Tom Friendly, Danny Pickett, Ethan Rom, Bea Klugh, etc.
Fake Christian finds the photo hanging on the wall in the barracks amongst dozens of other other photos of the various recruits from over the years. The barracks were abandoned by The Others for three years, and the pylons down, which means the Man in Black had plenty of time to roam the houses and discover the photo. He takes Sun and Frank right to it to show them. Those photos on the wall have been hanging there for decades accumulating dust, and some of the modern day Others might have casually looked at them now and again, but there is no reason they would see, say, Jack and suddenly remember him in a photo that they glanced at weeks, months, or even years prior. We know this because Ben -- who was an actual DHARMA member -- never really looked at the photos either and is surprised to see it. He didn't want to remember his old DHARMA family because he helped to kill them all. I wouldn't think that was something he would want to regularly remind himself of.
There are no changed timelines in LOST. Only changed perceptions or faulty memories (like Desmond and Daniel). And if the timeline had been altered then 2007-Ben would have new memories that aligned with those changes. He wouldn't be surprised. Change one thing in the past and you change everything.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Thank you, tah makes sense
#🤜🏽💙🤛🏽
Do you have any sources for all this info?
Most of this information is extrapolated from within the actual show itself. The show is my source for 80% of this. But I do make deductions for the other 20% by using the established or available information to fill in gaps. A general source that is useful for reference points is Lostpedia, an online Wikipedia-style resource. If there are specific aspects of this video that you want some kind of source or reference point on then feel free to ask away.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 thank you
He’s the writer
Bruh remember when Ben had a secret room inside his secret room?!
Why do you think they never integrated the valenzetti equation into season 5 when we met the DI people? Always thought that was the perfect moment to mention it, even if in an offhanded way.
I think the Valenzetti Equation is only partially canon now. Unless it is something stated, referenced or demonstrated within the main text itself then it isn't fully canon as far as information goes. The Lost Experience is a supplemental source from the mid-2000s that most new viewers today will never even know about nor probably ever see, so it's tricky to hang too many answers on it. I also think the writers had moved away from Valenzetti by the time they reached S5's main story arc.
That said, nothing in S5 necessarily contradicts The Lost Experience or the Valenzetti Equation, it's just that DHARMA ends up being about much more than simply trying to change the constants of this equation; they are a multi-tiered project with various aims and departments. So, Valenzetti is simply a smaller component to the Initiative's mythology. It's definitely worth referencing the equation with LOST fans since we all know what it is, and certainly worth mentioning to any new bloods who have never heard of it. At the end of the series, Darlton said: "We want the show to speak for itself", and I think this was their way of saying: "Forget everything outside of the show. All the information you need is right there."
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 great response, thx. Lindelof has stated the Dharma content from the Lost Experience is cannon, but the material around Rachel Blake is not. Its also mentioned in the Lost Encyclopaedia. That being said, its non inclusion in the show was always something that bugged me. You're right to be weary of hanging answers on it. I think the numbers mystery was kind of made up as they went along. Thats what network television at the time was like, a very reactive environment. David Fury who wrote the episode where they introduced the Numbers said he wasn't aware of their broader purpose at all and said to an interviewer 'Your guess is as good as mine' when asked what they mean. JJ Abram's pitched the idea and Lindelof worked it through in Easter eggs, and famously said at Comic Con 'we may never know what the numbers mean'. That being said even if the Valenzetti content weren't cannon, one could still say the numbers work aa a powerful numerological motif that ultimately shows the interconnected destiny of each of the candidates. They were in the end each others constants, destined to find each other and save the world.
@@loosegoose2466 As far as LOST is concerned, the only thing that can ever truly be considered canon is if it happens in the show. 100 years from now, no one is going to know what The Lost Experience is, or have easy access to any of those old supplemental materials. The show has to speak for itself, and I think that's what the writers intended by the end of S6. All that counts is the text. I mention Valenzetti's Equation in the video mainly for the benefit of LOST fans who already know about it. However, not knowing about the equation doesn't really affect a new viewer's understanding or enjoyment of the series. Same goes for what was behind the wall in the hatch. Lost: Via Domus (an officially endorsed computer game) gives us a cool visual answer to that question, but because we never saw it in the actual show then we have to treat it as only partially canon. Ergo, people can choose to incorporate it into the mythology if they choose, or reject it outright. I choose to embrace it because it makes sense in terms of the science and logic of how the hatch functioned.
But I digress! I think it is fair to see the numbers as a symbol for predestination. I explore this all in Chapter Five on The Numbers. They are proof of a "god in the machine"; that there is a formula to fate, and therefore a meaning to our existence. The numbers represent the Island's influence on the world and everyone's paths. They are representative of a concept more than any one specific thing, hence why they pop up in various combinations and contexts all over the world. It's like finding a coder's signature or tag in an endless stream of code. It demonstrates that existence has an architect, of sorts. In this case: The Source.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Thx
Yeah as I think I may have already said the phrase Jacob had a thing for numbers should perhaps have been reworked to the Island has a thing for numbers :)
@@loosegoose2466 Yes that's a great way to look at it!
fist of all thank you so much for everythingg secondly i have minor question i get that pearl got usefull for many reasons but i dont get it why did they builted in the first place it doesnt makes sense to me it feels so random they have so much on their plates why are they doing meaningless pych test is there a point that i am missing
I will be diving back into DHARMA in a future video in which I shall talk more in depth about the stations, including The Pearl. 👍
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 thankk you so much
Makes me think the Pearl was the least fleshed out part of the Dharma subplot. Served more of a story purpose than anything Dharma was conceivably working on. All these crazy science experiments and then let's throw a few people in a hole in the ground and waste time. And if you look past that, the design of the Pearl station didn't make any sense. In later seasons you never hear anyone mention it. Granted, it had to be built after the Swan, but it just doesn't fit with the others. I find it interesting that Radzinski had no knowledge of the Pearl other than that some station existed more or less in the middle of all the others.
Pierre Chang does imply the idea that some of the higher up DHARMA scientists looked down on other departments. He calls the work being done on Hydra Island as “ridiculous”. He might have thought the same about the work being done in The Pearl. I think the point of that station being confined and underground was to make the occupants down there feel more closed in. No outdoors, no views, no games or distractions. It would make the psychological experiment far more intensive. It’s conceivable that Radzinsky had no clue of The Pearl’s existence because by the time it was built and being used, he was already an obsessive button-pusher down in The Swan. He knows of its existence but has no context for what happens in there.
If eloise moved the island how would the food drops still get there?
As established in series epilogue 'The New Man in Charge', the periodic supply drops are pre-programmed to take place at regular intervals of about six months and the drop orders are automated messages from The Lamp Post.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 nice try lost explained but i know your really the island you cant fool me
@@Musicman12345 Lol! Well, you never know... ;)
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 real talk though best lost series ive seen on youtube. Even answered some questions i didnt even know i had lol hope you blow up man clearly you have put alot of work in the editing and making the videos and even more work in the research not just the shows but the interviews and extras.
@@Musicman12345 That's incredibly kind of you to say. Thank you :)
Richard's Group (THE ORIGINAL HOSTILES) Were They Descendants Of When MIB Was Walking Around In Younger Days? When Did THE HOSTILES Come Under Ben's Jurisdiction (And Where Did Ben's Group Get All That Money They Had) And Why Did We Never Hear More About The DHARMA INITIATIVE? Didn't They Wonder What Happened To Their Island Location? How Did WIDMORE Really Get So Involved When In Fact He Started Out As A Foot-Soldier In The 1960S? Lost Questions.
1. No. They were brought to the island like everyone else.
2. Ben took over from Widmore after the purge.
3. The money came from having set up legitimate companies on the outside world like Mittlelos Bioscience.
4. It is implied that the purge extended to off-island DHARMA personnel too.
5. Widmore, like many leaders, was selected from an early age and marked to become the leader someday. We see this happen with Ben and Locke. Chosen before they are old enough to take the job.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 Thank You So Much For Taking The Time To Answer My Questions And I Still Have Other Ones As Well. Thank You!
Why is Tunisia the exit point for the island
If they had computers and timers that went off every 108 minutes, why wouldn't they simply automate the release? Was this done as an act of sadistic punishment?
We have to weigh up the scenarios between human error versus automated error. Sure, a simple automated program could do all the work without the need for human supervision. However, all it would take is the computer program to blip a little bit and the world would end. That would have been too risky. At least the two man team could double check and support one another. One person fails to push the button, the other person can correct.
If The Swan were built today, it would probably use an automated system *and* human supervision to make sure the time horizons were met and any blips could be quickly identified and corrected. Back in the late 70s, computers were not as reliable as they are today and the technology could not be solely relied upon to do the job. It was safer having rotating teams of button pushers back then. When the time came to upgrade such an analogue system, DHARMA had been wiped out.
When ben turned the wheel and left the island he stopped being a leader cause he left the island, how abt john locke? he left the island too but when he came back he was still their leader, can you explain please?
He was never officially the leader of the Others, he just said he was. I think they would have given him The Book of Laws if he'd been "sworn in" officially. In which case he would have recognized the Book as belonging to him as a child with Richard's test.
@@sandal_thong8631 what book of laws? And why would you say he wasnt the official leader? Cause ricardos treated him as such
Hey! Roger Linus is Uncle Rico! It’s gotta be.....
Edit: it totally is lol I googléd it
great video but do you have to use voice to speech
I stopped using the text-to-speech voice over a year ago. Check out the latest 12 videos on the channel. They all use my real voice. Maybe start here: ua-cam.com/video/oTZ88eUQrJo/v-deo.html
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 thanks for your reply
What was the door station ???
There was no Door station. It was a decoy “hatch” designed to fool and lure in our Losties. To make them think that camp was where The Others actually lived. When Sayid opened the doors he found a rock face wall. There was nothing there.
9:46
is this not a catch-22?
Yes, this is the nature of a time loop paradox. Also, see "bootstrap paradox" or "causality loop". Remember the compass that Locke is given by Richard Alpert? Follow its journey through the timeline and find yourself asking the questions: Who made it? Where did it come from? The compass just goes around and around this loop and has no beginning nor end to it. Season Five demonstrates many of these paradoxical time loops. The rope is another.
What if its true ?
Darma was answering to the man in black, right? He was the one encouraging them to finish his work on the hotspots? I was wondering if the scene with the scientist absolutely freaking out at the idea of the 'hostiles' (Jacobs people) discovering the swan site was because the man in black didnt want a repeat of his first attempt where mother buries the first wheel and warned him.
The summoning room in the darma barracks that links to the leaders house seems to indicate that darma had been in contact with him and were perhaps taking orders or suggestions, not understanding what he actually was?
In the episode with Mother, the man in black says that 'curious people who want to understand how things work' are the only reason he puts up with the greed and deception of the romans... theyre a 'means to an end'. Darma being his new romans makes sense to me.
(Im watching while working, so if this was addressed and I missed it, I apologize)
That's an interesting take! I don't see it that way myself. DHARMA were studying the ancient ruins of The Island for sure, as indicated by the summoning chamber like you mentioned. But it's unclear if they actually knew how it functioned. If they were in contact with the smoke monster and being influenced by him then why did they erect the sonar fence around the barracks, which is specifically designed to keep him out?
By the time DHARMA came to The Island, the Man in Black was working on his plan to kill Jacob and more interested in finding a loophole in the rules. I don't think he was pulling their strings specifically. We know DHARMA came there with the specific goals of harnessing the electromagnetic light beneath the landmass. They weren't told to dig for it by the MiB as the light was their primary reason for being there in the first place.
Radzinsky's paranoia about The Swan site being discovered was more related to the fact that it broke the truce between DHARMA and the hostiles. That's why so many of the stations were created in secret and hidden. Even The Orchid was designed to fool the hostiles into thinking the station was for botanical research purposes only.
@LOST EXPLAINED those are good points. I guess my head cannon would be that the US Military that came to the island with Jug Head and planned on nuking the island were somehow influenced by the MIB. It's never stated how they got there or if the island brought them, but at some point the MIB convinced them to set off the bomb, forcing Jacobs 'others' to run them off. I think they left, as opposed to being killed off because Eloise says 'they just couldn't stay away.' Maybe they even discovered the island during the Korean War or WWII.
So basically, the Military that was driven off the island began formulating a plan and set up DHARMA as a sort of front. I think the military sub, MK Ultra type experiments, armory and the like might be evidence of this. Perhaps the DHARMA 'hippy' culture was specifically designed to obfuscate this. (There's actually a funny theory linking the Grateful Dead to MK Ultra)
As for the EM barrier, I'm not quite sure. Perhaps it not only kept the MIB out but also kept Jacob from seeing with his 'all seeing eye'. Or maybe it was just a faint designed to keep the others from guessing who they are actually loyal to.
I found the name of the leader of DHARMA, Horus, interesting. Jacob uses Horus imagery, but there were two Horus' in the mythology. One was the brother of Osiris (the MIB in this pantheon) and was known as Horus the Great and the other was the Son of Osiris. The younger Horus was associated with birds, and in one of the online mini episodes, they state that they are performing chimeric expirements on birds (hy-birds). Also when Walt is with them, he kills a bunch of birds psychically in another mini (although that was after the Others took over the DHARMA instalations).
Which leads to an interesting question about who the dark faction was after DHARMA was destroyed and the Temple/Barracks dichotomy came about, if dark and light really do need to exist in balance. Ben does go to the black smoke for judgment and he is the one that ultimately fulfills the 'loophole'.
Or maybe I have been overthinking all of this and have had a Claire level mental breakdown...
A lot of the background on the U.S. military finding the island is filled in with The LOST Experience ARG game. I will actually be exploring this in the next video. In summary: Alvar Hanso started off life as a munitions magnate and sold arms to the military. Hanso had ancestral connections to the island and might have directed the military to its shores as well as building them Jughead in the first place. The Others fought the army off their shores (some of them were killed as evidenced by Miles walking over a mass grave in the jungle) and the army left Jughead behind. Alvar went on to change his ways and try to make amends by seeking world peace. His corporation -- The Hanso Foundation -- founded DHARMA, not the military. DHARMA was not connected to the government. The orientation film for The Swan explains some of this and The LOST Experience fills in the rest.
The sonar fence was built to keep Smokey out, according to Pierre Chang's induction video for the barracks. At least, that's the implication. And we see that the monster is unable to penetrate its barrier, unlike The Others who could enter through underground tunnels whenever they wanted. DHARMA didn't believe that Jacob was real. The orientation video for The Hydra specifically states how DHARMA were fascinated with how The Others "believed" in a magical island deity by the name of Jacob. To DHARMA, Jacob was a cult-created myth.
DHARMA's island leader wasn't named Horus. He was called Horace. I know the names are etymologically related, but it's worth pointing out they aren't the same name in that sense. I don't view DHARMA or The Others as light and dark per se. More science vs faith.
There's nothing wrong with going down the rabbit hole with LOST lol. You're no going crazy like Claire, you're becoming enlightened like Jack Shephard! The show encourages us to think and talk about all these crazy details, so you're all good :-D
Maybe a video on who becomes the protector after Hurley?!? / what Hurley does when he is the protector
Nice idea, but unless there's some bonus features somewhere giving some hints it would be pure speculation/fan theory. Granted, I personally am a big fan of fan theories.
If you see the epilogue at the end Ben and Hurley take Walt back to the island. So he could be
This whole show was so confusing
I hope I have untangled enough of it for you and others.
LOST EXPLAINED you have bro, I watched pretty much every video you uploaded
Ok but who is paying the two guys in the Epilogue after almost 20 years?? Hanso Foundation? We don't even know what happened to them? How would they just not do anything ?
There may have still been a foundation or fund set up for this. Likewise, we don't know when Kelvin Joe Inman was recruited, whether before or after the Purge. He was waiting for his replacement, when he found Desmond. "Smells like carrots."
@@sandal_thong8631 i think the others are doing it tbh
Blackrock, eh?
I disagree on why the button wasn't automated. The island is a "magic box" where things will happen because people want them to happen. I think pushing the button had to be a conscious choice
I agree it needed human will. It would be similar to someone dying accidentally and someone deliberately trying to kill them. Jack tests this in the Black Rock and the fuse goes out. However, Arzt wasn't protected from accidental death because he wasn't needed or a main character or candidate.
25:55 Who is still paying for these guys and all this food and the drones?
That's a fair question! It is implied in the Epilogue "The New Man in Charge" that Ben and The Others took over The DHARMA Initiative from within as the years wore on. Hence Eloise being in control of The Lamp Post and all off-island DHARMA people "disappearing" or being replaced. Ben pays off the two warehouse workers in the epilogue with severance checks, which implies that The Others had been keeping this operation running for many years.
@@LOSTEXPLAINED108 why are there new washing machines in the swan station I was going to ask you in your five hour-long episode
@@johnlocke5728 One of two possibilities: the first is that Hurley's observation of the machines being "new" was inaccurate and they simply got tuned up with spare parts by the hatch men whenever required; or the second option is that they were flown in with the pallet drops, which no doubt supplied updated equipment over the years, including the exercise bikes.