Shifting characteristics of Mercedes-Benz automatic transmissions
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- Опубліковано 9 бер 2020
- This video is about Shifting characteristics of Mercedes-Benz automatic transmissions
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You are definitely the best Mercedes channel on UA-cam and I can't wait to get my hands on a W123 to restore and drive every day
Pierre knows these cars from top to bottom.. if you asked him what breed of horse hair was used in the seats he could tell you without blinking an eye
He'd say coconut fiber.
@@7425park he would know what country the fiber was sourced from ....
@@zenjamin6262 haha I'm not that smart
@@thisisnightshop2037 a expected response from such a HUMBLE genius
Probably mostly English Ponies...have you seen their long, luxurious locks?
Love your topics!!
Great video and thank's !!!
Really good info. Thanks!
Thanks for the info in this video, my SL320 ,having a 722.5 auto trans now shifts 3 times by 25mph, never did this in the 13 yrs. of use, I have fiddled with everything but vacuum issues, lack of vacuum may be the culprit so food for thought, thanks again
! great stuff
This is informative! I would love if you would do series on cars by chassis code. I think that would be super useful for a lot of folks, and it would be a nice way to compile the info. I know the W124 isn't really a classic by most standards, but please include it! :D
Thank you Pierre your information is very on point and precise
You're very welcome
Great video
One of my w123s I've had was a 1981 300D with the vacuum-only 722.122 trans. When I first got the car, some hacks had been into it previously. Turns out the hacks had misrouted the vacuum lines, tried to compensate for a bad vacuum dump valve by messing with the modulator adjustment. Once I corrected all of these issues, I had one very nicely shifting transmission, crisp under heavy throttle, easy to modulate under normal driving conditions, and absolutely no flare. I will admit there was a little bit of a learning curve to it, but not too bad once I found factory service information on it.
Thank you mate,Beautiful!
I would subscribe every time when I watch you.
Excellent. Pierre you helped me big time with my 1989 300E. I have soft 2 to 3 upshifts with very hard 3 to 4 upshifts. Hard 3 to 2 downshifts. Where can I find the vacuum specs / tests in the service manual? The section on transmission is thin.
Hi Pierre,
Learning so much from you and love your dedication to these classics!
I have an ‘83 300D that I set all the vacuum up right and it shifts nicely 1-3 but still has a hard 3-4 shift at part throttle . Should I look at turning the modulator counter clockwise a turn.
Not looking to set up a pressure gauge at this time and want an ex way out.
It has 375k on the ODO
Thank you
Thank you, Pierre!
I have a 1966 250s that was sitting for a number of years and after addressing a non functioning brake system and power steering system, I was able to drive it for the first time recently. I noticed that the shifts are firm and crisp, however they seem to happen later than they should. Is there a simple adjustment to allow earlier shift points?
Good video hopefully help me
Gréât Channel
What about the harsh first to second shift in the 722.315 (W123)? Is there some bushing for that? I installed the replacement spring in the Import Shift Kit, but it didn't really do much for me.
W123 shifting issues. Bowden cable, vacuum control valve, vacuum modulator if you're having issues learn about these components and change the fluid and filter allot.
great. second gear hard shift on420sel 87. will look into it,
I’ll tell you... one of the most rewarding things I did with my 240D was getting it to shift correctly. It’s a wonderful car when it shifts at the factory speeds. The car shifts into fourth gear at 53 MPH in kick down!
Sometimes I miss that car...
Sometimes...
Where did it go
@@thisisnightshop2037 I came home one day and it was gone - my wife left the gate open (she claims by accident...) and the car ran away. Well, more like it walked away at a leisurely pace.
Actually, this is Jonathan - I'm pretty sure the car is still tooling around in DC, but I can't be sure. It might be for sale again at another Ford dealership in the mountains with an inventory of 4 cars.
I already have dibs on the car when this owner gets tired of it. I'll MAKE room in the garage this time.
Hi Pierre. I was told by some mechanic that there is a bearing in the 722.3 transmission. How many bearings are there other then the yoke? I suspect my 300se had a worned out transmission bearing. Also I'm planning to change the support bearing as it shows some age. Other then that, it shifts smoothly without any issue.
You are a Mercedes Savant, Pierre you should be a professor at the University of Mercedes Benz.Please teach my mechanic your knowledge of transmissions, still in his shop!!!!
When you're ready....
On my W126 420 SEL the trans flairs (slips) during the first shift (between 2nd and 3rd gear). If I understand you correctly, it's likely a worn clutch, not a vacuum leak, but that modulator adjustment may help. Additionally, wouldn't adjustment adversely affect the other gear transitions? My other shifts are fine. Thank you!
Good information.
How about when you get a cluck when shifting into Reverse? Or a clunk when you shift from Drive to Park? My 1986 560SL has this issue. Normal driving and the shifting through the gears is smooth as expected.
Where is your idle at in park ?
@@zenjamin6262 you need a friend to shift the car from D to R while you get underneath and investigate where the Clunk sound is coming from set the parking brake and chock all wheels for safety.look at everything closely and im sure you can hear where its coming from.
reveres clutch?
I really like the crisp shifts on my 250SE. I know period reviewers criticized it, but I like it. I would just prefer 1st gear start and a lower rear end ratio on the car. Maybe 3.46 or 3.69 instead of 3.92.
3.69 is a good ratio for the 250
Thanks for the Info
I have a late 722. 3 model that had a 3 to 4 flare up. I installed the original innerspring inside the red spring of the K2 accumulator from the superior shift correction package. Problem solved. It did not need new clutches. The 420sel has 329k miles.
that's great that it worked, this has helped me a few times as well.
I have a 72 300sel 6.3. Trans is leaking badly and am looking at a rebuild as I understand that the seal replacement requires the gear box to come out anyway. I am also getting a loud "clunk" when shifting into drive. It seems to come from the rear end. Any thoughts on this?
I have a ‘76 w115 300D automatic. You mention it has an atmospheric modulator. It uses ambient pressure to adjust something? What does that mean? I know there is a direct linkage to the throttle which you also mention, I just don’t get the atmospheric part.
I have a W116 300SD that has its original transmission (around 200,000 on the car). Several years back I went out to my garage to find a pool of transmission fluid on the ground. I had the car towed in and as it turns out the rubber sealing had given way. The mechanic started telling how I would need a new transmission and I told him I would not (this is before I got my current good mechanic). When he opened it up he found that the insides looked new and it only needed all new rubber. Seems like as long as you don't drive them low or out of fluid they last really well.
We often do this repair ...good call
Weird but no mention of the upgraded modulator for the .3 transmission. I have a rebuilt 722 3 in my 560 sel and it shifts beautifully except for 2 instances, a slight slip from 1st to 2nd gear at wot and a loud clunk if I slowly pull up to a stop as it kicks down to 2nd gear. If I use the B selector to shift 1st to 2nd it's better and if I pull up to a stop fast the clunk is almost gone. Weird for a 10,000 mile trans
Us your kickdown cable too tight?
I actually miss and prefer the old modulator
I have a 1st gen W126 with a 722.3. When driving normally, the gear changes are smooth. However, when entering D or R, there is a pause and then a sharp jerk in the respective direction. What could he the issue ?
I hooked up the vacuum supply to my modulator through the dashboard headlamp height adjuster(a vacuum modulator beside the headlight switch) on my w124 diesel, monitoring vacuum level via gauge. So I killed off the headlight adjusment function so I can adjust vacuum supply to shifter modulator at will, because there are times I prefer a more defined harder shift when driving out of town. Will this decrease the lifespan of my 722.3 transmission?
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Love your videos. 1985 300D car has been in my family since new unfortunate I don't know the service records it has 172000 miles on it I don't know if the transmission fluid and filter have been changed I've been told not to do it now it could cause the transmission starts slipping is this correct?
Not correct. Fluid and filter change is good..... trans flush is bad!
Quick question Pierre, what would cause a 722.0 to shift early at full throttle? Mine won't go much past about 3500 rpm unless I manually move it through the gears. It also won't kick down unless the revs are low.
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Hi I have vito 2019 recently it’s got a problem when I drive it on automatic E or C mode it consumes heavy fuel but when I drive on M mode it’s consumes lot less fuel what she’ll I do any suggestions will be helpful thank you .
Is the control pressure linkage bushing issue applicable to the 722.3 at all ?
No....these use a cable
Hello! Help pls. Is all w116 280SE valve -body compatible to their transmissions?
Hello Pierre,
I have 86 w126 420 SEL and when shifting from park to drive or from drive to reverse, there is a delay and jerk. Fluid is good. When idling in park, there is little wining noise coming from under the panel with window switches - not sure it’s related. Any chance you or someone could point me in the right direction here? Btw once in drive it seems to shift smooth with no issues.
Thanks
do any of these tranmissions give off a very loud excorsim like noise when failing?
I just bought a real nice 87 300sdl great body. Inyerior and compression test.
I paid $500. Runs great but only has reverse. I bought it expecting to put used trans in it. Is it possible something can be fixed without trans coming out. Was far too good a car to go to scrap yard. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and more than happy to pay for your advice. Thank you.
So if I’m getting flaring on occasion during upshifts my trans is basically f*cked and I should just drive it till it goes kaput, then rebuild the transmission?
Interesting, as always Pierre, My ‘84 300TD doesn’t seem to have any interest in 4th gear. I’ve taken IB up to 75mph, but it seems to stay in 3rd. That said, it’s only clocking 3k RPM @ 60 MPH ... Maybe it’s a 3-sod that was swapped in? Odd ...
Make sure you have full throttle. Adjust linkage.
have a 1995 E300 Auto DIESEL/120k mi. w/ a firm, sometimes 'jolt' shifting characteristic.. is this the norm for this model/era? seems opinions vary online with lots of talk of aging vacuum lines, etc... mostly curious.
.
thx for your vids, i have a question about a 91 560sec when i first drive the car it wont shift to second until i hit 3500rpm and let off the gas, the warmer the trans gets the better it shifts, starts shifting smooooooth, any ideas thx again.
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i got a w210 e230 with a 722.4 and it shifts a little harsh from 3rd to 4th and it flares from 3-4 when it shifts while FULL throttle and it downshifts too late from 4th to 3rd (rpm drops to idle before it downshifts)
i've tried
- oil + filter
- bowden cable adjustment
- checked oil level
i would replace the transmission but my entire driveway is gravel so it will be a pain to do
Try trans x first.its awesome
hi mine is a w203 with 722.6 trans, it turns high rpm at every shift do you know why?
where can i find valvebody information for 722.001/W3A040? kickdown on decelleration but no kickdown on full throttle.
Mercedes published a manual on this box. Email me and I will send you the section on the vb
My '83 w123 300 turbodiesel shifts fine, it has 400000 miles on it.
When do i need to rebuild or service the transmission?
thank you for this great videos.
I have two issues with my 560 sec :
1. does not respond quickly to gas pedal after stop. a few seconds delay.
2. small vibration over 50mph , new tires with new balance.
any idea will be greatly appreciated.
How did you solve it? I have the same problem!
@@dlpgamer which issue ?
@@helipiloting vibration one, it drives me crazy
@@dlpgamer sorry I feel the same way still living with it , i solve the first issue was EVP leak.
@helipiloting ah damn, thanks for answering so quick anyway. I'll try to solve it in the coming weeks, I'll tell how I solve it if I do! Btw mine is also a 560 SEC, 91
I could be wrong, but it seems like 722.3 diesels, especially with a 3.07 diff seems to shift noticeably firmer into 2nd gear than 3rd and 4th. Is this due to clutch wear on 3rd and 4th gear or is this by design?
Why is my 1996 Mercedes Benz c200 shifts at high rpm at low speeds and jerks forward?
Hi Pierre, my 250c w114 transmission behavior changes after driving in a hot day and driving for 30 to 40 minutes. Forcing to go from 4th to 3th (with the pedal or with the selector) it seems to me it tries to go to 2nd but ends in 3rd. It all happens very fast. It is like if it doesn’t know where to go. What can it be wrong?
All I can think of is that your transmission filter might be partially blocked. When was the last time you replaced the filter?
My dads 68 280 had a kick to every shift. As a kid I thought it he was just a bad driver. I had no idea at age 7 the nuances or hydronic clutches vs others. What a fool I was.
Driving my 1972 r107 350sl 3 speed auto at low cruising speeds seems to hold second gear for just a tad too long before "deciding" to get into 3rd. Is this normal? As it is kind of annoying!
It isn't. Change the bushing in your kickdown linkage and make sure you have no major vac leaks from injector seals
hi i just purchased a 2010 glk350 w low miles & well kept... and the only concern im having is that at 17mph i feel it shifting , no noises or fires i just feel the shift down or up at 17mph and its worrying me im not sure if this is normal or im just worrying for no reason please let me know THANK YOU!!!
normal
Is synthetic ATF a good idea with these transmissions?
It won't hurt but it's not necessary
All proper mechanic shops have a microfiche reader. :)
How do you get a 1988 560 SL to start out in first gear while in “D”? Mine launches in 2nd. Thanks.
80's MB's love to start in 2nd, by design. :(
Kickdown 😂
Below 7mph punch the gas and it should smoothly and swiftly go into first gear, then haul ass
You need a euro version valve body. Or use the vb from a 380sl
I have 1976 MB 230 w115 model.all gears are shifting nice and smooth, except 4th gear,which is missing. What could be the problem?thanks in advance!
same! did you solve the issue ?
@@93yay02 yes.these cars start driving in second gear,unless you floor it at the start ,then it starts in first gear.
My 93 500 SL has a shift problem . I had the transmission rebuilt 2 years ago as reverse was completely gone. The problem I have now is it stays in 3 rd. gear and wont shift into 4th gear until 35-4000 rpm's . It just started going out of high gear on the freeway . drops back to 3rd and acts like its in neutral . I have to manually move the gear selector to neutral and then to drive to go back in forth . Car has good vacumm pressure and the transmission cable is adjusted properly . What could be to problem ?.
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Pierre, my friend, quick question, I have 84 300cd, flares between 3rd to 4th gear with low input on gas pedal when warm but it is not flaring first few minutes from a cold start. It shifts OK when I put the gas pedal back to shift it to 4th when warm. All other shifts are excellent. What could it be? Vacuum or something like worn clutch for 4th gear?
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The little flaps on the vacuum valves are worn
@@thisisnightshop2037 Mine are removed , non-existant, bypassed. Its a 84 cali model with removed white flaps on the valve cover. It makes sense if they were there. What else could it be good sir?
You bypassed the valves on the the valve cover? But did you bypass vacuum circuit to the EGR? The vacuum line to the EGR is plugged by a temperature valve on the water pump housing until the engine warms up. Then vacuum goes to the solenoid/EGR...a small leak there might cause you to flare when the engine is warm. Also, the key word with these systems is "balance" - if the vacuum system isn't bone stock, you have to figure out how to balance the vacuum going to the transmission with the bleed-off rate at the VCV and the modulator to get the shifts to all be sorta close to stock. Unless you want to spend years figuring it out...there's alot to be said for going back to stock. It's not alot of money (you can replace the entire vacuum system under the hood, valves included for about 200 dollars...) and your car will run much better. Also, I think the K-2 clutch is the one that engages 4th gear...and is engaged in reverse. Do you have trouble with reverse?
@@6DtHAngL6 I didn't bypass the white valves but previous owner I guess. I bypassed the vacuum that goes to EGR and ARV (Air Recirc Valve). My setup is bone stock except the bypasses. I am suspecting the clutch pack for 4th gear or the valve body K-2 spring like you said. I will have to do extensive testing with the mitivac before I start replacing serious shit like that tho. But I was thinking it could be vacuum but I will test the whole system pretty soon, just got no time for now ;(. I also have no issues with reverse, it engages after a second , but good enough for a tranny that old..Thank you for your response big bro, much appreciated!! Stay safe out there, its a corona world lol..
on my 1972 280C I have long 2nd and very short 3rd
can not tel rpms, car not equipped
but on 2nd I have more rev/high rmp and when get in to 3th
once in 3th, 4th coming so quick
1st very short
2nd very long
3th short again
can be adjusted ?
thanks
what is this?
0002700179
Auto Trans Modulator Valve
Hello! My 1993 300TE while driving today on the freeway pressing the gas pedal steady then suddenly I heard a loud rev and on the dash I saw the RPM go up high. I wasn't sure what happened I was still pressing the gas so it kept going up which I didn't catch what's happening. The car wasn't moving anymore and I was going in to a stop which I was on the side of the road. I car was still running and no noise from the engine. After getting towed to my home I looked under the car and check any visible problem but I didn't see anything yet. The car starts normally smooth and quiet but shifting to drive or reverse the car doesn't respond. Pressing the gas pedal works fine like nothing is wrong. Jacked up the car and looked under were the shifter linkage mechanism is and they actually move. I had my friend shift the gear from drive and reverse and I can see the linkage move under the shifter selector and the linkage on the side of the transmission. I am here searching for answers please help. Before this happened, I didn't notice any problem with the shifting. The car has been in restoration for over 1 year and I never had a problem like this. The most I notice is shifting to drive or reverse had a little jolt but that's it. Help Thanks
Hello My name is Armando and I am from Portugal , I have a W123 300D but only shift until 3º gear , any sugestions ? Thank you
Depending on what year it is, you may have either a blocked transmission filter or a dirty valve body. Also make sure the kickdown switch under the carpet is not being pushed on by the carpet
Mr. Hedary, I own a 1983 Mercedes W126 300sd Turbo Diesel that shifts great in 1st an 2nd but Flairs when go to 3rd. I made a minor adjustment on the Bowden cable and the shifts improved and it drove just fine until I parked it an drove it an hour later. That's when the problem occurred an my Speedometer jumped an remained at zero. Question: A Mercedes guy told me that Mercedes no longer makes the Vacuum Control Valve (VCV). Is it possible to delete that valve and control the transmission shifts using only the Bowden Cable and Vacuum Modulator??? Does that sensor attached to the aft end of the transmission control the signal to the Speedometer??? Any advice from your expertise would be greatly appreciated. I Love my old Paint ^_^
Hello, Louis Bennett and thank YOU so much for your question(s), we want to answer you as quickly as possible.
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@@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753 Gotcha, and thank you so much for your response Sir. Stay Blessed
My 2008 c280 started jerking while shifting. And later did not shift past 35mph
Could a bad vaccum modulator cause a late shift?!
722.435... (subscribed, FWIW)
Pierre-Nice video. My '84 280SE must have the 722.3. I've noticed a couple things that I wanted to ask about. Maybe others will benefit from the answer.
1. When I shift from Park or Neutral to either Drive or Reverse, the initial engagement is pretty firm. So much so that I push the brake all the way down to keep the car from lurching.
2. When the car is warming up, it seems that the transmission is either not fully engaging or down shifting properly. There is virtually no torque unless I accelerate aggressively...then it will "grab" and work normally. But I don't want to accelerate aggressively because the engine is not warm....sort of a Catch-22.
What say you?
For your first problem check that your accelerator linkage is adjusted correctly. If the linkage is not fully retracted at idle this will happen. It will act like your foot is on the accelerator slightly when shifting into gear. On my W123 84 300D with 722.4 transmission the linkage bracket mounted on top of the valve cover that the bowden cable and linkage from accelerator both connect to was the problem. There is a plastic roller that travels in a groove on the bracket and when at idle the roller was not resting in the end of the groove. The problem was solved by adjusting the moving part of the bracket so that the roller sits fully against the stop at idle.
What is 'flaring'? I'm not familiar with this term.
A flair is basically a slippage as the trans shifts into a higher gear. So if your going from 2ed to 3rd you'll hear a increase in rpms before the shift is completed
@@12pagani Oh, OK. Never heard it called flaring, we just call it slipping! Thanks.
i have a 71 280se and the transmission slips so much that i can't get the car on ramps to save my life...what could be wrong?
722.329 flaring. Turned out to be a worn clutch pack. 210.
Deutz makes the best diesel sir
Is george hedary your father
Ken needs to be out to pasture for not recognizing that non vacuum shift 722.1 so not exist it’s a crime