Funny that even though you mentioned Descendents, you just skipped the inffluences from Melodic Hardcore (Face to face, Millencolin and others) and 'Real' emo (Sunny Day Real State, Jimmy Eats World). And one of the most underestimated band that for sure made the turning point between Hardcore Punk, and Melodic, is Husker Du, that is barely mentioned in most of Punk/HC analysis.
Yup Husker Du created so so many sounds you hear in many many bands that followed. Love Husker Du. So much emotion tied up into brilliant songwriting and composition. Punching Melodic vocals with hard distorted guitar riffs and driving bass lines. Similar indeed was The Descendents. Taking those Beach boy/Beatles melodies and adding them to the hardcore sound created not only pop punk, but skate punk and Alternative music and eventually grunge music as well. Although grunge does have a few more lines of influence. But that's a different discussion.
Pretty cool vid, someday maybe do one exclusively on Jeff Rosenstock's career since it's such an emblematic, mythology-like and interesting story inside the genre
Thanks so much. And thank you for the suggestion. While I'm not familiar with him specifically, that certainly is a good idea and sounds very interesting and I'm interested to learn more about him and his bands, and I may try to do that at some point.
Most crucial info here- 1) The greatest band EVER the Beach Boys created the template. 2) The Ramones took it , revamped it & punkrock was born. 3) Kudos on showing the Surf Punks l.p , they were greatly underrated. &4) THE greatest pop.punk band is the Queers & Travoltas.
That is some great additional insight, and the Queers are certainly a significant band that should have also been included in the video; that's my mistake for somehow forgetting them, as I thought I intended to include them. I wasn't aware of the Travoltas but will make sure to check them out. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for the insight.
I think what goes unmentioned is that pre easycore mini breakdown era of pop punk. Bands like midtown, riddlin kids and count the stars, and arguably the starting line were doing the same schtick that new found glory originated in the 2000s
Haha. I wasn't aware of some of these bands before; I would agree with you, after checking out some songs, that they have similarities to New Found Glory and seem to have that faster paced, positive upbeat sound of easycore, and I agree as well about the Starting Line also soundjng similar. Thanks for the insight and for introducing me to some of these bands.
Ramones greatest pop punk band ever. End of the century produced by the greatest pop producer ever. Pop isn't the insult some people think it is. Milo is a great album but Ramones was released almost 10 years earlier and "i wanna be your boyfriend" and "i don't want to walk around with you" were on that album which are 2 great pop punk songs. Not taking anything away from the Descendants
I agree with you and think that the Ramones probably were more important than the Descendents to the development of the genre as being the first or one of the first pop punk bands and were more broadly influential. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
That's a totally understandable/reasonable take. Personally, I still do think of his two most recent albums as pop punk, because it seems stylistically influenced by pop punk to me, though I also understand the view that making pop punk goes beyond aesthetics/style and that he's not aligned enough with the genre's culture/scene/values.
Calling The Ramones, Buzzcocks, bands of that era "pop-punk" just doesn't fit with me, simply because pop-punk is a sub-genre of punk, which would mean the sub-genre existed before the genre itself did, which is kind of a paradox. There does tend to be an attitude in the USA that the later American late 70s/early 80s punk, and hardcore, is 'real' punk, which is where the pop-punk labels probably comes from (towards those earlier bands). From a UK perspective, pop-punk is very heavily associated with that late 90s Blink 182 whiny-voiced sound that emerged like a hyperactive child from the USA's west coast, where grown men with skateboards, knee-length shorts, and tattoos designed and placed by stylists, sing about being teenagers. It's not The Ramones. But that's just my take.
That's a good point and I agree they aren't really pop punk bands in the traditional sense. In the video, I was meaning to refer to the Ramones/Buzzcocks as pop punk in a looser/broader sense, since they were influenced by pop music with pop-influenced melodies, as well as because they were influential on later bands who were also influential to the genre's development, like Green Day, though certainly they were/are primarily punk rock bands, in my view. And I think that the definition of pop punk you gave, as referring to something much closer to blink-182's sound and bands similar to them, is the most commonly used definition here in the United States as well, at least in my experience. Thank you for sharing your perspective and thoughts and for the extra insight and clarification on pop punk's development.
Except for The Ramones and the first 2.5 Descendents albums (I wouldn't call the Buzzcocks pop-punk, different sound), pop punk sucks, has always sucked and you should feel ashamed for liking it. Just call it pop. The Queers early stuff was good (the Love Me and Kicked Out Of The Webelos EPs from the early 80's), but they were just straight up punk then.
Though I'll admit I disagree that pop punk sucks, I think that's fair to call it pop and totally get where you're coming from, including with the Buzzcocks sounding different, though I think there are still similarities and that they're still important to the genre's development, and I do agree that those are all good bands. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
How can this Millennial skip past Billy Idol? Probably the biggest pop punk personality of the 80s. If he really was there or saw the progression instead of reading to much other people's data. He would know.
Thank you for your insight and perspective. I didn't know that, and you're totally right; I'm definitely less familiar with the earlier history of the genre compared to its more recent history.
Billy Idol was rebranded as heavy metal as soon as metal became popular. I never knew he supposedly did punk rock music when I was a kid. "White Wedding" was played along with songs like Night Ranger's "Sister Christian" and Def Leppard's "Love Bites."
@perfectallycromulent He was in Generation X, starting in 77? He was there as part of the notorious Bromley Contingent, that really began it all. Dancing with myself was original a Gen X song. His first few solo albums were always centered around danceable punk. From 77 until today he has carried that classic punk look that so many have stolen and tried to copy but he was an originator. He was the first and original pop punk. People just try to throw him away because they weren't there for it and don't remember how he stuck out from all those fools next to him on MTV.
Pop punk died in 1999. Everything from 2000 - 2019 was power pop. Like Fountains of Wayne. I love FoW, but they're the same kind of music as Sum 41 -- nothing to do with punk rock.
That's certainly a totally valid perspective and raises an important issue. Personally, I'm pretty comfortable calling those 2000s/2010s bands pop punk, partly because they are just so commonly called that and also they still are often linked to '90s pop punk bands, though I accept that overall the meaning of pop punk changed from the '90s to the '00s and beyond and sort of drifted more toward a pop rock sound that is maybe influenced by the more pop-influenced aspects of older pop punk bands (like Green Day/the Offspring) but not the punk-influenced aspects, and the term "pop punk" can consequently be misleading and not make much sense, and many of these bands have little or even nothing to do with punk rock musically/culturally, and so I totally get not calling them pop punk (though I actually think at least a few Sum 41 songs sound more punk-influenced than a lot of 2000s "pop punk" bands, but that's kind of beside the point). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@nonward I wouldn't even call the Offspring pop punk. Pop punk has a very specific sound and subject matter, like MTX and the Queers. The Offspring were more of a straight up punk band like TSOL. Bad Religion were never pop punk. You may as well Cannibal Corpse a black metal band.
I understand not considering the Offspring pop punk as they are fairly punk-sounding overall, though personally I think it could go either way, at least with, like, some of their stuff on Americana and some later albums, and many of their singles. But I may also be using a broader definition of pop punk than the one you mentioned, as I guess, again, I kind of disagree that it only has to refer to an early, more narrow definition but can understand only using that definition. And sorry as it was kind of confusing how I worded it in the video, but I didn't mean to call Bad Religion pop punk, just to say they were an important punk rock band and were influential to/a part of skate punk, which later developed some pop punk influence, arguably, depending on how it's defined.
@@nonwardI’m with you on that. Personally for me the first and second waves of the genre were my favorite because they were able to sound fresh and fun and were just so memorable for me. But thats just my opinion on it haha. Good video!
Thanks so much. Oh, nice; it's hard for me to choose and I basically really like the entire period it was mainstream (initially), from the mid-'90s to late '00s, at least in my view, but yeah, even though I got into them much later, I can relate totally that those first two waves were my first exposure to the genre and are certainly still very nostalgic for me, and in my view, a lot of the best/catchiest/most classic songs come from those waves, especially Green Day, blink-182, and Good Charlotte. Thanks for sharing.
Funny that even though you mentioned Descendents, you just skipped the inffluences from Melodic Hardcore (Face to face, Millencolin and others) and 'Real' emo (Sunny Day Real State, Jimmy Eats World).
And one of the most underestimated band that for sure made the turning point between Hardcore Punk, and Melodic, is Husker Du, that is barely mentioned in most of Punk/HC analysis.
Thank you for mentioning those. And sorry about that, I may have condensed the history a bit too much at certain points and brushed over some aspects.
Which song was the melodic hardcore?
Yup Husker Du created so so many sounds you hear in many many bands that followed. Love Husker Du. So much emotion tied up into brilliant songwriting and composition. Punching Melodic vocals with hard distorted guitar riffs and driving bass lines. Similar indeed was The Descendents. Taking those Beach boy/Beatles melodies and adding them to the hardcore sound created not only pop punk, but skate punk and Alternative music and eventually grunge music as well. Although grunge does have a few more lines of influence. But that's a different discussion.
Pretty cool vid, someday maybe do one exclusively on Jeff Rosenstock's career since it's such an emblematic, mythology-like and interesting story inside the genre
Thanks so much. And thank you for the suggestion. While I'm not familiar with him specifically, that certainly is a good idea and sounds very interesting and I'm interested to learn more about him and his bands, and I may try to do that at some point.
Most crucial info here- 1) The greatest band EVER the Beach Boys created the template. 2) The Ramones took it , revamped it & punkrock was born. 3) Kudos on showing the Surf Punks l.p , they were greatly underrated. &4) THE greatest pop.punk band is the Queers & Travoltas.
That is some great additional insight, and the Queers are certainly a significant band that should have also been included in the video; that's my mistake for somehow forgetting them, as I thought I intended to include them. I wasn't aware of the Travoltas but will make sure to check them out. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for the insight.
Fascinating history! I had no idea.
Thank you for watching
I think what goes unmentioned is that pre easycore mini breakdown era of pop punk. Bands like midtown, riddlin kids and count the stars, and arguably the starting line were doing the same schtick that new found glory originated in the 2000s
The definitive act by tsunami bomb would have been another easycore classic if tsunami bombs guitarists had any modicum of skill
Haha. I wasn't aware of some of these bands before; I would agree with you, after checking out some songs, that they have similarities to New Found Glory and seem to have that faster paced, positive upbeat sound of easycore, and I agree as well about the Starting Line also soundjng similar. Thanks for the insight and for introducing me to some of these bands.
Well put 👏
Thanks; I appreciate it.
Having those three in the Thumbnail is unreal. Like having BB King, Jonas Brothers and Lil Wayne🤢
Haha. I can understand that reaction.
Ramones greatest pop punk band ever. End of the century produced by the greatest pop producer ever. Pop isn't the insult some people think it is. Milo is a great album but Ramones was released almost 10 years earlier and "i wanna be your boyfriend" and "i don't want to walk around with you" were on that album which are 2 great pop punk songs. Not taking anything away from the Descendants
I agree with you and think that the Ramones probably were more important than the Descendents to the development of the genre as being the first or one of the first pop punk bands and were more broadly influential. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
MGK Is not a pop punk artist. He's a shameless wave rider.
That's a totally understandable/reasonable take. Personally, I still do think of his two most recent albums as pop punk, because it seems stylistically influenced by pop punk to me, though I also understand the view that making pop punk goes beyond aesthetics/style and that he's not aligned enough with the genre's culture/scene/values.
Calling The Ramones, Buzzcocks, bands of that era "pop-punk" just doesn't fit with me, simply because pop-punk is a sub-genre of punk, which would mean the sub-genre existed before the genre itself did, which is kind of a paradox. There does tend to be an attitude in the USA that the later American late 70s/early 80s punk, and hardcore, is 'real' punk, which is where the pop-punk labels probably comes from (towards those earlier bands). From a UK perspective, pop-punk is very heavily associated with that late 90s Blink 182 whiny-voiced sound that emerged like a hyperactive child from the USA's west coast, where grown men with skateboards, knee-length shorts, and tattoos designed and placed by stylists, sing about being teenagers. It's not The Ramones. But that's just my take.
That's a good point and I agree they aren't really pop punk bands in the traditional sense. In the video, I was meaning to refer to the Ramones/Buzzcocks as pop punk in a looser/broader sense, since they were influenced by pop music with pop-influenced melodies, as well as because they were influential on later bands who were also influential to the genre's development, like Green Day, though certainly they were/are primarily punk rock bands, in my view. And I think that the definition of pop punk you gave, as referring to something much closer to blink-182's sound and bands similar to them, is the most commonly used definition here in the United States as well, at least in my experience. Thank you for sharing your perspective and thoughts and for the extra insight and clarification on pop punk's development.
Except for The Ramones and the first 2.5 Descendents albums (I wouldn't call the Buzzcocks pop-punk, different sound), pop punk sucks, has always sucked and you should feel ashamed for liking it. Just call it pop. The Queers early stuff was good (the Love Me and Kicked Out Of The Webelos EPs from the early 80's), but they were just straight up punk then.
Though I'll admit I disagree that pop punk sucks, I think that's fair to call it pop and totally get where you're coming from, including with the Buzzcocks sounding different, though I think there are still similarities and that they're still important to the genre's development, and I do agree that those are all good bands. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
What a load of rubbish ...
Pop punk sucks
How can this Millennial skip past Billy Idol? Probably the biggest pop punk personality of the 80s. If he really was there or saw the progression instead of reading to much other people's data. He would know.
Thank you for your insight and perspective. I didn't know that, and you're totally right; I'm definitely less familiar with the earlier history of the genre compared to its more recent history.
Billy Idol was rebranded as heavy metal as soon as metal became popular. I never knew he supposedly did punk rock music when I was a kid. "White Wedding" was played along with songs like Night Ranger's "Sister Christian" and Def Leppard's "Love Bites."
@perfectallycromulent He was in Generation X, starting in 77? He was there as part of the notorious Bromley Contingent, that really began it all. Dancing with myself was original a Gen X song. His first few solo albums were always centered around danceable punk. From 77 until today he has carried that classic punk look that so many have stolen and tried to copy but he was an originator. He was the first and original pop punk. People just try to throw him away because they weren't there for it and don't remember how he stuck out from all those fools next to him on MTV.
Pop punk died in 1999. Everything from 2000 - 2019 was power pop. Like Fountains of Wayne. I love FoW, but they're the same kind of music as Sum 41 -- nothing to do with punk rock.
That's certainly a totally valid perspective and raises an important issue. Personally, I'm pretty comfortable calling those 2000s/2010s bands pop punk, partly because they are just so commonly called that and also they still are often linked to '90s pop punk bands, though I accept that overall the meaning of pop punk changed from the '90s to the '00s and beyond and sort of drifted more toward a pop rock sound that is maybe influenced by the more pop-influenced aspects of older pop punk bands (like Green Day/the Offspring) but not the punk-influenced aspects, and the term "pop punk" can consequently be misleading and not make much sense, and many of these bands have little or even nothing to do with punk rock musically/culturally, and so I totally get not calling them pop punk (though I actually think at least a few Sum 41 songs sound more punk-influenced than a lot of 2000s "pop punk" bands, but that's kind of beside the point). Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@nonward I wouldn't even call the Offspring pop punk. Pop punk has a very specific sound and subject matter, like MTX and the Queers. The Offspring were more of a straight up punk band like TSOL. Bad Religion were never pop punk. You may as well Cannibal Corpse a black metal band.
I understand not considering the Offspring pop punk as they are fairly punk-sounding overall, though personally I think it could go either way, at least with, like, some of their stuff on Americana and some later albums, and many of their singles. But I may also be using a broader definition of pop punk than the one you mentioned, as I guess, again, I kind of disagree that it only has to refer to an early, more narrow definition but can understand only using that definition. And sorry as it was kind of confusing how I worded it in the video, but I didn't mean to call Bad Religion pop punk, just to say they were an important punk rock band and were influential to/a part of skate punk, which later developed some pop punk influence, arguably, depending on how it's defined.
@@nonwardI’m with you on that. Personally for me the first and second waves of the genre were my favorite because they were able to sound fresh and fun and were just so memorable for me. But thats just my opinion on it haha. Good video!
Thanks so much. Oh, nice; it's hard for me to choose and I basically really like the entire period it was mainstream (initially), from the mid-'90s to late '00s, at least in my view, but yeah, even though I got into them much later, I can relate totally that those first two waves were my first exposure to the genre and are certainly still very nostalgic for me, and in my view, a lot of the best/catchiest/most classic songs come from those waves, especially Green Day, blink-182, and Good Charlotte. Thanks for sharing.