I know you are pals with Joe from Winspace (this isnt a criticism at all). Can we still count on your cast iron impartiality when it comes to bikes even when they are from winspace etc.
This is a good question and one that is levelled at me a lot, so I think a fairly and detailed answer with my thoughts is appropriate. Before I go any further, I would point out I paid for the frame. Winspace did know it was coming to me so they could have selection bias but given that last week an anonymous frame turned up, I think their QA is a bit better than most and probably right up there. They are not infallible but I think it's statistically low that you will get a problem. Whenever I review something, I try and remain as objective as possible. Hence if you view my recent reviews, my opinion of cannondale has moved them towards the right of the famous scale. They used to get reamed on an almost weekly basis and I quite enjoyed mocking them but their recent stuff is much better. Generally I'll comment on stuff that is measurable and then some personal comments afterwards. For example, on this frame, I dislike the rear brake (that's my personal opinion) but the lack of voids and my necessity for a short stem are factual. Unlike other magazines, I won't say it holds its speed well or has dynamic agility and puts it's power down to the floor in a Nano second. The people who tend to watch this channel can see straight through that. The problem with frame and bike reviews is that a realistic review across the broad spectrum of people's sizes is problematic. I've got a Winspace XL frame, I can't review a Small frame because I physically wouldn't fit on it. The tube lengths on the Small frame will be smaller and hence the stiffness will be subtly different as will the aerodynamics but people will base their opinions on the review who is probably on a medium frame. This also kills the idea of one frame being more aerodynamic than the other. Those bikes are sold as aero but it's more important as to where they position the rider. So in short, I'm totally indiscriminate, if it's crap I'll say so. If it's good I'll say that too. SOrry for the rant.
@@Hambini Ha! Yes I love, holds it's speed well! Like I can really feel the difference of 0.2mph or whatever a more aero frame will give you! On that I noticed David Arthur took a TCR into a wind tunnel and also the latest Trek aero bike and at 40kph the Giant was about 2 watts slower! Or like, a crease in your jersey slower!
@@andrewwoffinden8671 I watched that and cringed. He's not in the same position on both bikes so that drag number is largely irrelevant. I would also point out as indicated here, the effect of a compound drag loss or gain is quite significant. If you fit a set of crap wheels, the frame cannot make up for them. If you fit a decent set of wheels then the frame has the choice of whether to keep the flow healthy or screw it up. I think those kinds of reviews will get shown up. 80's hifi magazines spring to mind.
Hambini - you may not be aware but Absolute Smack makes a ceramic oversize aerodynamic cable end that AeroCouch (no typo) has tested to reduce drag by 0.1 watts at 60 km/hr. It was verified by confidential University testing in the Gender Sciences Department.
Hambini, here’s a pro tip, when you put a cable on, mark where you’re going to cut it, and from that point up about 2 inches, take some super glue and put a light film on the cable and let dry. Make your cut and put on the cable end. If for some reason you need to take that cable back out of the housing, after you remove the cable end, your cable will be much less likely to fray, and you’ll be able to remove and install it again.
@@kosskrit As a member of the ye olde school of bicycles, soldering cable ends are the best way to finish them up. But they must be squeaky clean and well fluxed for the solder to flow and do its job. And we can all benefit from a good fluxing. 🤪
I really wanted this frame, but settled for a Trifox. The rear break in that position was a PITA when repairing a flat in a Cervelo. One nice thing about them is they use direct mount brakes that have excelent breaking power.
@@DDGB08 The exact setup is Trifox X16 QR size 49, Elite Drive 50 wheels and Ultegra groupset. Purely on feels: it's great on climbs and amazing on flats. Really weird cause it's not an aero frame. I don't think there is a better value tho aside of black friday deals.
I personally don't want these companies to get too much recognition and brand awareness, prices will go up, then another company will come along and do it cheaper, and we'll start all over again with trying to justify good/bad. I like these hidden gems.
Most of the time that happens because 1- They go public and the investors want to quadruple their money. (Not sure if this can happen in China) 2- They are bought by a bigger brand that have a board and "here we go again!!"
As long as growth isn't too crazy, it shouldn't be a problem. 10 years ago we sponsored some local boys, 8 years ago some local teams, 5 years ago some international teams, then some UCI conti teams, etc. As long as you're keeping the same % of your budget on marketing, then one day sponsoring a world tour team shouldn't lead to any increased costs for the consumer. Since Winspace "got famous" we've only had one new frame come out (The G2) and it's a few hundred dollars cheaper than our flagship frames. Obviously we hope we don't always stay "hidden gems" ;)
I don't know why I keep watching this "reamer channel", since I'm more into touring, and extreme engineering hasn't got much to do with my style of "practical biking". I guess I'm just addicted to the free spirit of the 5-year old Hambini...😄
Pro tip: a small round rare earth magnet will fit on the crank arm in the pedal hole on the back. You can mount your cadence sensor on the frame at that location, and it works with duotrap if you’ve got a trek. But if you don’t, it gets the cadence sensor off the crank arm, so you don’t tear the sensor off with your shoes.
I just assembled mine with my hands, T1500 with Novatec carbon wheels 50mm and Shimano Ultegra Di2 12v disc version. Great frame, very light and fast (without pedals my bike is 8.4 kg, very good for an aero bike with disc and electronic groupset.). Two only issues: paint is a little bit delicate, and seat post need 10nm torque. This is an odd issue, because for a carbon piece in my opinion 10 nm is too much. I put only 6 nm with carbon paste and is working. Anyway, very satisfied by this bike, Winspace does the job at a very good price. I am 1.65 cm tall and I choose medium size with 85 mm stem length and I am very impressed by the correctness of the sizing. Comfort, handling and aero properties are almost perfect. Cheers from Italy
That video is an educational experience, so informative. And that detailed article saved me from buying a DUB crank for my bb86 bike. Great content as always.
@hambini If I'm one of bike brand guys I'm pretty much thanking you because of the free analysis and pointing the design errors and improve on those but I guess they don't want to be criticized and improve haha. Hopefully there would be more gravel bike reaming in the future. I'm really curious about the aerodynamics of those especially when you put attachments such as fenders.
Thanks again for another review of this up & coming Winspace company. I have been hearing & seeing really positive reports. They (Winspace) are doing us all a favor. The big companies will price themselves right out of the market at the rate their going. When a company such as this markets a clean product at a fair price we all win!
@@bluemystic7501 Actually yes I have seen his but while yes he is a cyclist he does none of his own work nor has any mechanical aptitude. He also has not tested this bike but has tested the aero version. The others he tested were mostly Chinese junk. The thing with winspace I have seen is the insides of the frames tell the tale of a clean operation similar to Look or Time in cleanliness. That is impressive these days compared to many so called "name" brands that pay for reviews
@@maniastrat Well he relies on talented mechanics who know much more than Hambini. Additionally, Ham will trash an entire bike brand based on a single frame. End of the day, how the bike performs is all that's important and Ham isn't a credible opinion in that regards. For real though, have you ever shown up to a race and seen Chinese bike brands? I haven't.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that still used and likes the under stem di2 junction. I swapped out my Dura ace crankset to campy even with more faff with the power torque BB if you swap out cranks I prefer the campy.
For sizing and stem lengths the most important information to reference to regarding geometry is the Stack & Reach. The top tube lengths will differ due to seat-tube angles, and very often the reach is about the same within the size your looking for. Stuff the head-tube length, it's about the stack. Stack's are highly influenced by the bottom bracket drop length. So look at the stack & Reach between the Time Skylon size you have and the T1500 you purchased. Basically when running two bikes the Stack & Reach information is key to getting the position as close as possible from one frame to the other. In fact I always look at what the stack is first, It has been known for me to look at a manufactures geometry chart of one of there frames and the smallest frame the stack is to high so I know immediately it a no go area.
I think the bit that stack and reach miss is the seat tube angle. You can still have the same position in space on the front end but the back bit can be out, especially as you move through the sizes as the angle changes.
@@Hambini Yes, the third point in the chain is the seat tube angle. This is where manufactures using aero shaped seat-pins/posts really could do with at least three offset options, 5mm, 15mm and 25mm.
@@Hambini As you may well know, the seat-tube angle and the reach can be adjusted to a point and in most cases works out alright but with the stack you can come up against a brick wall.
Things to consider: will this bike be in stock again? It's out of stock for some time and on black friday you could only buy XL size. Too bad I'm not taller because it was for 1000USD. Maybe Winspace are preparing to launch new frame.
It depends what they have tooling for and demand for. You can't make bespoke tooling to send out only 10k bikes. Similarly, you can't start production for older moulds just becomes someone wants an old model. It has to be some synergy with what the big players are paying for, volume, and speed. Otherwise it all points towards buying from Time, Wittson, etc.
yes Winspace are preparing new frame, because T1500 is a 2017 creation. Probably new frame will be more aero and with internal integrated cable routing only.
I'd be interested in a video to learn which of the Chinese frame brands (i.e. Winspace, Yoeleo, Trifox, Farsports) are OEMs for which larger western brands.
I got a T1500 this year. 2 weeks into riding it, the headtube warped and now my bearings are loose. This has lead to my fork being loose and now the bearings are digging into the carbon on my fork. Winspace says it's fine and won't allow to do anything with the warranty. Bike rides like a beast but I don't know how long it'll last
Hey there Hambini- thanks for another great video. at 8.30 you're discussing the sculpted crown area and how it integrates into the DT and I was wondering if you could go into some more detail. It seems like an increasingly common feature but I'm unsure of the rationale. Helping smooth air flow from the exterior of the front of fork crown into DT region? Stopping air from getting bogged in the high empty corner that's usually formed at that intersection? Or is the focus more on managing airflow that's coming through the interior of the fork crown and past the tyres? Interesting contemporary takes on the area could be the supersix which opts to integrate the side profile only while leaving the crown shoulders bulging/traditional or the new madone which does the opposite- basically nothing done to the side profile while the face and shoulders of the crown flow very deeply into the DT area.
Jeremy Clarkson of the Bike world, like the man says, if it's shite, it's shite! If it ain't gonna break the bank and won't cause you any grief, then bring em on, these reviews whether negative or positive are precious for avoiding being ripped off by corporate brands!
hi hambini, you need garmin radar, thats the best rear light. And I think, you wrapped the handlebar tapes the other way round. Thas why the gap can be seen. love your videos. One of the few sane people.
The space between the seatstay and the back wheel is ridiculously small on my Felt AR4 bike the largest tyres I can get are basically 26mm and thats really pushing it. Glad to hear good for aerodynamics though and the AR is bloody fast sometimes you pooh yourself a little its soo fast! That Winspace is nice!
If I was in the market for another road bike, I'd seriously consider this one. Compare to a Trek Madone frameset at $3000+ (SL) or $4000 (SLR). (Sure, the economical way to buy the Madone is as a complete bike, but you're still looking at a $1000 premium over the T1500.)
I think buying a complete bike is always a bad idea. The propetary wheels of any big brand is designed to generate revenue instead of being a good product. The Affinity line in entry level bikes is next to crap, the Aeolus wheels are awfuly heavy and the bearings dies in about 2 months. However, I like their frames. I'd never ever sell my Emonda frame and hold it dear among all my bikes.
I’m thinking of getting the t1500. However, the whole thing about the downtube is bugging me and when you spoke about it being structurally weaker than the other types of designs, that flipped the switch. My main question, is this actually safe/reliable? The scare comes from me riding on somewhat questionable roads and am a bit afraid that this’ll die after a while cuz of the abuse the bike will go through. Hope you reply!
Hi Hambini, wanna ask....Is a DEEPER wheelsets are going to help you better in speed or an AERO frame? This question always make me wonder. Most of the AEROBIKE come with deeper wheelset. Is the wheelset that actually make the different than the frame? Or maybe all this while the bike industry giving us all marketing gimmick of the AERO frames.
I knew the Hello would be a strong one given the title. Glad I was quick to reach the volume button 😃. The last two Cogs areas generally not used by riders anyways too much friction to get it rolling, damages chain and chainline is not straight. You have 3 bikes now. Look from Belinda with big Bazookas. Time and now this. Which one is your favourite and which one gives you the smoothest ride. Other UA-camrs would jump to a do a speed comparison for the us cycling freaks but I like you stick to your engineering only
Many aero frames feature a very wide down tube which should theoretically make a round water bottle function aerodynamically as an elongated down tube, or at least hide it from the air. This concept makes sense to me as opposed to the teardrop shape used on the T1500 which would seemingly be affected by having a round water bottle mounted at the tail end of it. Any thoughts about this? The downside is that my family is convinced that I'm riding an e-bike because the down tube is gigantic!
@@Hambini Honestly the elite bottles are quite a bit overpriced, as are the similar aero bottles from manufacturers like arundel. Giant made one a few years ago that can be found for about 15 usd if you look around carefully.
@@yoda112358 pretty sure that’s the subtext - why bother unless you genuinely need the advantage (and at that point, you probably don’t need to buy it yourself)…
Tempting! Are the winspace costs in the PowerPoint in dollars fully landed /delivered here in the UK ? How long did it take for your order to arrive? Looks great 👍
The behind the bottom bracket brakes are wrong, these were tried on mountain bikes in the late 1980s, they worked great in California where its mostly dry, but not so good in Europe, where its often wet.
I wonder what effect a proper aero backpack would have? Of course one cannot just buy one, they don't seem to exist. There can be an aero front as well. They are easy to make & fit under a spandex containing shirt very nicely. They don't have much effect if one is down on the lower bar, but how often is that?
Can you recommend the frame for weird sized people like me with very short legs ocmpared to a large Torso? 80cm legs at 183cm total length. Looking at the geometry table its very "agressive" even compared to an aeroad
I have no idea how the heck you only have 97.4k followers with this information. I would challenge that even a non-cyclist would find this information useful, just for life itself/manufacturing. I also appreciate that you ride your bikes in normal weather and conditions, I do the same, it's a bike, I ride it, no garage queens here. Princess blanket though, that's another story....
I’m not sure about this, but when I looked at direct fit rim brakes, I could only buy them one at a time not as a pair. So why not put the rear rim brake in the normal position but as a centre bolt fit.
Maybe a 25mm or 28mm rear tire to fill the gap ? The width of the rear tire must have a very small drag penalty since its always in dirty air ? ???? It would smooth the ride too.
You got a bb86 frame? Isn’t it the most undesirable bottom bracket? I have had so many issues with many and so little options when it comes to cranckset
It usually is the lack of roundness of the BB hole in the frame that's the problem. Or poor fit. BB86 is actually a great system if you have a frame with good tolerances. I've done 24,000 km's on my BB86 bike and not one issue or creak, and still going strong.
Thanks! Loving this review and the software. I’ve been very tempted to get a 1500 or SLC2, rim brake versions, for a while. Been very difficult for my brain to settle on whether I really want to be as aero as possible or as light as possible. I know light weight and low inertia moments always feel goooood, for me, at my weight of 54kg fully kitted out. Aero and super stiff, dunno, but like the idea of increasing my speed on the flat. I’m 5ft 5. I would be choosing an XS, in either bike. I know it’s really hard to judge, but rough ball park figure, if possible, would be really interesting. Comparing the SLC2 to the 1500, what kind of watts difference could there be at say 40kph for the XS frames, same wheel and bar set up? I ask for 40kph, as this is about my flat out speed straight line speed on my local flat roads using my current set up, a non aero frame, with 50mm Bora ultras. No problem if this too vague/insufficient data to even make a rough guess - honesty and expertise is exactly why I like your reviews and comments.
If you ping me an email with a shot of you from the side, I can give you a fairly decent estimate, there is a large amount of the rider affecting the bike as opposed to the out and out aerodynamics of the frame.
Aero is super important for such light riders as u (or me), putting out relatively small watts. But eight as well, so go for most aero/ligtest setup u can afford. Probably not a disc brake bake. My Canyon Aerod CF SLX:) (which I am perfectly satisfied with, since 2016) is a 6.9kg rim brake bike. (Costed 2500 euros as brand new back in the time).
I always just wind a bit of thin copper wire around cable end and solder it on, smoother then the regular cable ends. P.s.: those Dura-ace cracks are getting ridiculous by now, still not fixed the problem.
I bought a Winspace T1500 aero frame but I was very disappointed ... the upper headset housing has more than a mm of play, I still mounted the bike because Winspace did not recognize the defect but now I'm afraid to go out with this bicycle because I think it is dangerous. Is there a way to fix this or do I have to throw the frame away? In a comment in another video of yours (Elves Vanyar) you were talking about tin foil, could you tell me the procedure? Do I have to use epoxy or some special glue and glue the foil into the landing?? Thanks hello from Italy
@@kpsig hi, I putted a small amount of tin foil (without any glue) to fill the gap and the bearings are now not moving. I cutted also the fork tube another 1 cm to avoid too much "leverage" and often I check every part of the steering zone searching for scretches or cracks on the tube. At the moment there is no slack and all is fine, I did 1700 km with no bad issues. I will hope also in the future... Next check I will remove the tin foil and I'll put brass foil or a little pre formed piece of tin can. But the disappointment remains, from Winspace I really didn't expect it. Sorry for my bad english, hello from Italy
@@kpsig Have you heard of such cases on any other T1500 frame? On the T1550: they raised the price and considering the possible purchase of the handlebar we are at around 2000 bucks, a bit too much in my opinion. Then only internal cable routing, which doesn't allow for control and maintenance of the headset except by cutting the brake cables every time... it's not for me. Plus the new colors are ugly (IMHO).
@@jdpowell69 Yes I had heard. As of the internal cabling, I am honestly thinking of wireless and then for the brakes go with mechanical disk brakes… Internal cabling does make a difference at any speed above 35km/hour
Shimano say stuff like "We are always studying and learning from our current products to make better products in the future, so feedback like this, even though in this case it was an anomaly..." So why are Dura-Ace cranks still failing? I use budget Shimano like Tiagra, Sora, FC-R563, and even an Altus rear mech on my commuter which give good service life so why can't they get it right with the high end stuff?
Almost all high end stuff in this type of sport is for speed not for durability or reliability. Its not what it used to be, sadly. Its like what my friend says when he uses his race car, "I use for it races, not as a daily driver". This is now relatable to road bikes for me now. EDIT: just to be clear, i mean this in a sense, that when one buys a Carbon bike with Ultegra or Dura ace, its meant to race. Not all people that buys these races but they should expect racing gears aren't reliable.
It's kinda common that Ultegra is a little better than Dura-ace in durability department, but Dura-ace is lighter (Every gram counts in a race, and that's where Dura-ace should be in - a race).
Hambini, you should try the crap Sram eTap Force or Red that me & my friends are using. The crappy 48/35 or 46/33 Sram chainring makes cycling comfortable for crappy riders like me
Hi Hambini, Have you heard of Polygon bikes? They are out of Indonesia. Their Helios frame is, according to them, 800 grams! Hmmm??? They are listing their Helios A9X with Dura Ace Di for $6,249 US. That to me is an incredible deal. After building a comprable bike with the Winspace T1500, I'd expect there is about a $1,000 savings with the Polygon. They are using T700 carbon, so that sounds a bit questionable, as that seems to be the low end carbon for other manufacturers. Please comment on the Polygon Helios bikes. I'm tempted to purchase one and avoid the effort of building a bike from parts.
I assume the reference is around 20:40. Commercially, it's quite valuable to me because it is much faster than anyone running a CFD so you can do a lot of permutations in just a few minutes and it also includes the spokes which are very difficult to model in CFD. The pedalling system is actually quite complicated because if you look carefully you can see that even the toe down movement of my feet has been mapped. Basically, I use stuff like this to fund the channel so I can cut up more frames which is something I quite enjoy. So the short answer is I don't know... yet! sorry for the rant.
Does a left crank power meter fit in with disc brake version (inpeak, they say 1cm clearance, probably similar as stages?)? I am getting this frame now on black friday, and also there are sales for the power meter, so need to figure out If I should get it before the bike arrives, thanks :)
Im 1.77m and I use a size medium for my T1500. The guy who sold it to me installed a Hambini BB and he needed a size large as we were the same hight but different torso/arm lengths. I wear 30 inch inseam pants and the medium fits me excellent.
@@Hambini what made you go with the XL? I am about the same height as you and I was thinking the L was the right size for the Winspace... Also what size of frame is your Time?
I really wish someone would invent a powermeter insole that you obviously, put into your shoes. The power meter clearances and all of that are annoying, and if you switch cranks for example, annoying. Pedal based is fine, but then you need multiple for multiple bikes. I have 2 pairs of shoes, I rotate my new to old, when I get new, so I'd need 2 insoles. Some would need one. Maybe not even insoles but a pad/sensor you can throw in your shoe.
Questions: 1. Would you consider a lower rake fork to help close the gap to the downtube? 2. Would you recommend the disc brake on the rear for easier fit (where the aerodynamics don't matter as much) paired with a rim brake in the front?
I wouldn't mess with the rake, but I would recommend a scalloped down tube. For the brakes, the unavoidable drag is the pumping loss. On the front, a rim brake will avoid that loss and you'll also avoid the pressure drag. But it's a bit of a faff to set up. You'll need a disc frame and rim fork
Hambini...love your rants, still not gonna bang my hairdresser, no worries. I watched a video from a gentleman in Australia, Cam Nichols, who basically bought a Winspace frame a long time ago. Having listened to your contempt of unilateral bike/frame assessments from UA-camrs, his didn't seem off the mark, as he wasn't espousing/endorsing the typical "most aero bike ever" nonsense that most people do. Instead he spoke in terms of how "heavy" the bike felt, when riding, and frame flex. Did you feel that in your time on the Winspace? Honestly, I'm tired of the marketing that big bike brands go on about, and the suppliers like Shimano forcing the average person into buying shit, like disc brakes, when rim brakes work just fine. Easier to change a wheel, easier to adjust, less expensive. Anyway, so I'm always looking for viable information that affords me the ability to make better bike purchasing decisions. I would also love it if you did a video on tire width, dispelling or confirming the need for wider tires(i do not like anyone telling me I need a 30mm tire or bigger), if you haven't already, and assess the Factor bike brand. I've seen you ream Canyon, Cannondale, Cervelo, Bianchi, Specialized, etc... I would like to see if Factors QC department is what they advertise it to be; probably because I own two😄 Again, thanks for the channel.
I've just done search online regarding Shimano 105 R7000 cranks. There seems to be some doubt as to whether the crank arms are bonded together or are hollow forged. Some say they are bonded but the join line/seam is in a different place to the later (fail prone) Ultegra and Dura -ace crank arms. Some say only the drive side crank is bonded. Some say that both arms are hollow forged. Does anyone know for sure that both cranks arms on all series of 105 are definitely hollow forged and not bonded two piece arms? has anyone cut them up? X-rayed them?
@@Hambini Yes It looks from your video that yours is the 7000 generation. The exploded view in shimano's tech docs shows that the latest 7100 generation has a wider and flatter crank arm as per the later ultegra and dura-ace gen.
Are there any high end cranksets you recommend? Am looking for a new groupset... I don't want the overpriced new Shimano 12spd electronic stuff, would consider a mechanical DA 11spd but these crank failures are concerning, or does one just cross fingers & hope for the best? Was considering going Record but just viewed your extensive educational reaming on Ultratorque and been put off that a bit... Sram red cranks have a high failure rate it seems. Whats the best of the bad bunch? Or perhaps go DA 11spd (mechanical/ rim) with a third party crank like Rotor? Is there anything out there recommended by a five year old engineer? Am too much of a perfume ponce to fit a 105 crank on my best bike..though that seems quite sensible...anyone tried running the new DA 12spd crank on the 11spd group?
@@yonglingng5640 Thankyou, yes looks a good option. I have a BB30 frame that was a bit of a creaker with Shimano24 until I installed a BB Converter. When going to Rotor I could run either the 30mm axle direct, or 24mm with converter. I wonder which is the better solution from an engineering perspective...I guess 30mm is lighter but 24mm has better bearing stance.
@@nellyx1x493 If you're on BB30 and your crankset isn't on a narrow-format 30 mm spindle (I call this true BB30), don't use spacers for 30 mm spindles and 30-to-24 mm converters for 24 mm spindles. You want the bearings to be right next to your crankarms. This means you need a BB30 BB with outboard bearings, regardless of which spindle diameter you want. Rotor's 30 mm spindle is aluminium, but the 24 mm spindle is made out of steel. As someone who's aiming to get an ALDHU one day, I'm going 24 mm as I don't want to be switching BBs. Also, there's a 24 mm spindle BB choice for every road BB standard out there (at least 15 of them on the top of my head).
@rollinrat4850 Yeah, thanks, that's interesting. This would be for my best bike which I try my darnedest not to use in the wet. I wonder what Mr. Hambini's doing to see off 4 of these sets... maybe he's packing some impressive heat in those pedal pins, or maybe it's the result of riding on heavily salted roads or in all weathers. Still, a well designed part should handle that. The Rotors look a good alternative... have Cann's SiSL2 on another bike and that is a similarly well engineered system, can be a bit creaky too though as many metal to metal interfaces...
18:00 The larger size frames (all brands) always look good even with sloping TTs. the smaller the frame gets it becomes unappealing (at least to me).Bikes should also be advertised in their smaller sizes so shorter buyers know what they're gonna get.Call me shallow but, the more I love looking at my bike... the more I ride it.
That winspace looks almost exactly like the Ribble Areo Road SLR.. and if they made the minor amendments to the frame as you suggested here (scallop to down tube for front wheel and closer gap at rear wheel and downtube scallop) and this winspace would look an Exact replica or the ribble..
Have you had any reports of failures of the latest generation dura-ace and Ultegra crank arms (12 speed groupsets) which were released in the last 12 months? Has Shimano overcome the failures which occurred with the previous series?
I know you are pals with Joe from Winspace (this isnt a criticism at all). Can we still count on your cast iron impartiality when it comes to bikes even when they are from winspace etc.
This is a good question and one that is levelled at me a lot, so I think a fairly and detailed answer with my thoughts is appropriate.
Before I go any further, I would point out I paid for the frame. Winspace did know it was coming to me so they could have selection bias but given that last week an anonymous frame turned up, I think their QA is a bit better than most and probably right up there. They are not infallible but I think it's statistically low that you will get a problem.
Whenever I review something, I try and remain as objective as possible. Hence if you view my recent reviews, my opinion of cannondale has moved them towards the right of the famous scale. They used to get reamed on an almost weekly basis and I quite enjoyed mocking them but their recent stuff is much better. Generally I'll comment on stuff that is measurable and then some personal comments afterwards. For example, on this frame, I dislike the rear brake (that's my personal opinion) but the lack of voids and my necessity for a short stem are factual.
Unlike other magazines, I won't say it holds its speed well or has dynamic agility and puts it's power down to the floor in a Nano second. The people who tend to watch this channel can see straight through that.
The problem with frame and bike reviews is that a realistic review across the broad spectrum of people's sizes is problematic. I've got a Winspace XL frame, I can't review a Small frame because I physically wouldn't fit on it. The tube lengths on the Small frame will be smaller and hence the stiffness will be subtly different as will the aerodynamics but people will base their opinions on the review who is probably on a medium frame. This also kills the idea of one frame being more aerodynamic than the other. Those bikes are sold as aero but it's more important as to where they position the rider.
So in short, I'm totally indiscriminate, if it's crap I'll say so. If it's good I'll say that too. SOrry for the rant.
this is internet, we all have to always make our own assumptions about ones reliability, who the hell knows really?
@@Hambini don't actually think that was a rant more a frank and reasonable response.
@@Hambini Ha! Yes I love, holds it's speed well! Like I can really feel the difference of 0.2mph or whatever a more aero frame will give you! On that I noticed David Arthur took a TCR into a wind tunnel and also the latest Trek aero bike and at 40kph the Giant was about 2 watts slower! Or like, a crease in your jersey slower!
@@andrewwoffinden8671 I watched that and cringed. He's not in the same position on both bikes so that drag number is largely irrelevant. I would also point out as indicated here, the effect of a compound drag loss or gain is quite significant. If you fit a set of crap wheels, the frame cannot make up for them. If you fit a decent set of wheels then the frame has the choice of whether to keep the flow healthy or screw it up.
I think those kinds of reviews will get shown up. 80's hifi magazines spring to mind.
Hambini - you may not be aware but Absolute Smack makes a ceramic oversize aerodynamic cable end that AeroCouch (no typo) has tested to reduce drag by 0.1 watts at 60 km/hr. It was verified by confidential University testing in the Gender Sciences Department.
That reaming is available for everyone to view and if you live in the UK, you can watch it on Odyssee! ua-cam.com/video/50aGgDvqglI/v-deo.html
@@Hambini we need an update on that love story please
@@o0o0o0o0o01 I've got it lined up for the Christmas special
Hambini, here’s a pro tip, when you put a cable on, mark where you’re going to cut it, and from that point up about 2 inches, take some super glue and put a light film on the cable and let dry. Make your cut and put on the cable end. If for some reason you need to take that cable back out of the housing, after you remove the cable end, your cable will be much less likely to fray, and you’ll be able to remove and install it again.
or use soldering iron ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@kosskrit As a member of the ye olde school of bicycles, soldering cable ends are the best way to finish them up. But they must be squeaky clean and well fluxed for the solder to flow and do its job. And we can all benefit from a good fluxing. 🤪
@@RReese08 Spot welding them is a fine method too.
@@rosomak8244 I agree.
I really wanted this frame, but settled for a Trifox. The rear break in that position was a PITA when repairing a flat in a Cervelo. One nice thing about them is they use direct mount brakes that have excelent breaking power.
How would you rate the Trifox on flats & climbs?
@@DDGB08 The exact setup is Trifox X16 QR size 49, Elite Drive 50 wheels and Ultegra groupset. Purely on feels: it's great on climbs and amazing on flats. Really weird cause it's not an aero frame. I don't think there is a better value tho aside of black friday deals.
I personally don't want these companies to get too much recognition and brand awareness, prices will go up, then another company will come along and do it cheaper, and we'll start all over again with trying to justify good/bad. I like these hidden gems.
good point.
Most of the time that happens because 1- They go public and the investors want to quadruple their money. (Not sure if this can happen in China) 2- They are bought by a bigger brand that have a board and "here we go again!!"
thats fine winspace deserves it if they make a good product.
I think it's the company's marketing cost and sponsoring team(s) driving up the cost.
As long as growth isn't too crazy, it shouldn't be a problem. 10 years ago we sponsored some local boys, 8 years ago some local teams, 5 years ago some international teams, then some UCI conti teams, etc. As long as you're keeping the same % of your budget on marketing, then one day sponsoring a world tour team shouldn't lead to any increased costs for the consumer. Since Winspace "got famous" we've only had one new frame come out (The G2) and it's a few hundred dollars cheaper than our flagship frames. Obviously we hope we don't always stay "hidden gems" ;)
I don't know why I keep watching this "reamer channel", since I'm more into touring, and extreme engineering hasn't got much to do with my style of "practical biking".
I guess I'm just addicted to the free spirit of the 5-year old Hambini...😄
I guess it's about us men being interested in how things work in detail.
Pro tip: a small round rare earth magnet will fit on the crank arm in the pedal hole on the back. You can mount your cadence sensor on the frame at that location, and it works with duotrap if you’ve got a trek. But if you don’t, it gets the cadence sensor off the crank arm, so you don’t tear the sensor off with your shoes.
I just assembled mine with my hands, T1500 with Novatec carbon wheels 50mm and Shimano Ultegra Di2 12v disc version. Great frame, very light and fast (without pedals my bike is 8.4 kg, very good for an aero bike with disc and electronic groupset.). Two only issues: paint is a little bit delicate, and seat post need 10nm torque. This is an odd issue, because for a carbon piece in my opinion 10 nm is too much. I put only 6 nm with carbon paste and is working. Anyway, very satisfied by this bike, Winspace does the job at a very good price. I am 1.65 cm tall and I choose medium size with 85 mm stem length and I am very impressed by the correctness of the sizing. Comfort, handling and aero properties are almost perfect. Cheers from Italy
I have only bad things to say about Novatec hubs, I hate them. I'm gald You don't have issues with them.
@@Onigure no issues at the moment. I feel rims not so stiff but pretty good for my needs. Hubs are ok for now... Sorry for your experience
I went with 7nm and some medium loctite. The vibrations from the road would loosen the seatpost clamp.
That video is an educational experience, so informative.
And that detailed article saved me from buying a DUB crank for my bb86 bike.
Great content as always.
@hambini If I'm one of bike brand guys I'm pretty much thanking you because of the free analysis and pointing the design errors and improve on those but I guess they don't want to be criticized and improve haha.
Hopefully there would be more gravel bike reaming in the future. I'm really curious about the aerodynamics of those especially when you put attachments such as fenders.
First time watching your channel. As soon as you mentioned you build rim brake, instant subscribe😊
Thanks again for another review of this up & coming Winspace company. I have been hearing & seeing really positive reports. They (Winspace) are doing us all a favor. The big companies will price themselves right out of the market at the rate their going. When a company such as this markets a clean product at a fair price we all win!
Might want to watch some reviews from actual cyclists though.
@@bluemystic7501 Have one in mind?
@@maniastrat cam nicholls does a lot of chinese bike reviews.
@@bluemystic7501 Actually yes I have seen his but while yes he is a cyclist he does none of his own work nor has any mechanical aptitude. He also has not tested this bike but has tested the aero version. The others he tested were mostly Chinese junk. The thing with winspace I have seen is the insides of the frames tell the tale of a clean operation similar to Look or Time in cleanliness. That is impressive these days compared to many so called "name" brands that pay for reviews
@@maniastrat Well he relies on talented mechanics who know much more than Hambini. Additionally, Ham will trash an entire bike brand based on a single frame. End of the day, how the bike performs is all that's important and Ham isn't a credible opinion in that regards.
For real though, have you ever shown up to a race and seen Chinese bike brands? I haven't.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that still used and likes the under stem di2 junction. I swapped out my Dura ace crankset to campy even with more faff with the power torque BB if you swap out cranks I prefer the campy.
For sizing and stem lengths the most important information to reference to regarding geometry is the Stack & Reach. The top tube lengths will differ due to seat-tube angles, and very often the reach is about the same within the size your looking for. Stuff the head-tube length, it's about the stack. Stack's are highly influenced by the bottom bracket drop length. So look at the stack & Reach between the Time Skylon size you have and the T1500 you purchased. Basically when running two bikes the Stack & Reach information is key to getting the position as close as possible from one frame to the other. In fact I always look at what the stack is first, It has been known for me to look at a manufactures geometry chart of one of there frames and the smallest frame the stack is to high so I know immediately it a no go area.
I think the bit that stack and reach miss is the seat tube angle. You can still have the same position in space on the front end but the back bit can be out, especially as you move through the sizes as the angle changes.
@@Hambini Yes, the third point in the chain is the seat tube angle. This is where manufactures using aero shaped seat-pins/posts really could do with at least three offset options, 5mm, 15mm and 25mm.
@@Hambini You may already know this that Winspace offer 2 offset seat-pins/posts for the T1500. An 8mm and a 25mm offset.
@@Hambini As you may well know, the seat-tube angle and the reach can be adjusted to a point and in most cases works out alright but with the stack you can come up against a brick wall.
Hambini: I've got a short stem.
Hairdresser: I KNOW
Things to consider: will this bike be in stock again? It's out of stock for some time and on black friday you could only buy XL size. Too bad I'm not taller because it was for 1000USD. Maybe Winspace are preparing to launch new frame.
It depends what they have tooling for and demand for. You can't make bespoke tooling to send out only 10k bikes.
Similarly, you can't start production for older moulds just becomes someone wants an old model.
It has to be some synergy with what the big players are paying for, volume, and speed.
Otherwise it all points towards buying from Time, Wittson, etc.
yes Winspace are preparing new frame, because T1500 is a 2017 creation. Probably new frame will be more aero and with internal integrated cable routing only.
I'd be interested in a video to learn which of the Chinese frame brands (i.e. Winspace, Yoeleo, Trifox, Farsports) are OEMs for which larger western brands.
I got a T1500 this year. 2 weeks into riding it, the headtube warped and now my bearings are loose. This has lead to my fork being loose and now the bearings are digging into the carbon on my fork. Winspace says it's fine and won't allow to do anything with the warranty. Bike rides like a beast but I don't know how long it'll last
Hey there Hambini- thanks for another great video.
at 8.30 you're discussing the sculpted crown area and how it integrates into the DT and I was wondering if you could go into some more detail. It seems like an increasingly common feature but I'm unsure of the rationale.
Helping smooth air flow from the exterior of the front of fork crown into DT region? Stopping air from getting bogged in the high empty corner that's usually formed at that intersection? Or is the focus more on managing airflow that's coming through the interior of the fork crown and past the tyres?
Interesting contemporary takes on the area could be the supersix which opts to integrate the side profile only while leaving the crown shoulders bulging/traditional or the new madone which does the opposite- basically nothing done to the side profile while the face and shoulders of the crown flow very deeply into the DT area.
good one Hambini 👊👍🙏 thanks for sharing, was wondering if u have a complete bike weight?
Jeremy Clarkson of the Bike world, like the man says, if it's shite, it's shite! If it ain't gonna break the bank and won't cause you any grief, then bring em on, these reviews whether negative or positive are precious for avoiding being ripped off by corporate brands!
I found that with the included bar/stem, you can actually internally route the the rear brake and shifter cables if you really wanted to.
Those brakes work awesome if you clean them 4 x a day 🙂
Man I'm glad I saw this. I like the Quarq power meters and use dub cranks so I'm glad I saw this before
Would really like to know what you think of SEKA bikes.
Very nice looking bike, a proper tool i see
Got a seat similar to the SMP, as the watts lower the gap closes squeezing the bollocks and the output goes right back UP
hi hambini, you need garmin radar, thats the best rear light. And I think, you wrapped the handlebar tapes the other way round. Thas why the gap can be seen. love your videos. One of the few sane people.
Brake hoods are also positioned wrong.
The space between the seatstay and the back wheel is ridiculously small on my Felt AR4 bike the largest tyres I can get are basically 26mm and thats really pushing it. Glad to hear good for aerodynamics though and the AR is bloody fast sometimes you pooh yourself a little its soo fast! That Winspace is nice!
Would like you to get your hands on a Carbon Felt AR bike and hear your opinion, bit scarce in UK though as an American Brand but built in Taiwan
If I was in the market for another road bike, I'd seriously consider this one. Compare to a Trek Madone frameset at $3000+ (SL) or $4000 (SLR). (Sure, the economical way to buy the Madone is as a complete bike, but you're still looking at a $1000 premium over the T1500.)
I think buying a complete bike is always a bad idea. The propetary wheels of any big brand is designed to generate revenue instead of being a good product. The Affinity line in entry level bikes is next to crap, the Aeolus wheels are awfuly heavy and the bearings dies in about 2 months. However, I like their frames. I'd never ever sell my Emonda frame and hold it dear among all my bikes.
I’m thinking of getting the t1500. However, the whole thing about the downtube is bugging me and when you spoke about it being structurally weaker than the other types of designs, that flipped the switch.
My main question, is this actually safe/reliable? The scare comes from me riding on somewhat questionable roads and am a bit afraid that this’ll die after a while cuz of the abuse the bike will go through.
Hope you reply!
Hi Hambini, wanna ask....Is a DEEPER wheelsets are going to help you better in speed or an AERO frame? This question always make me wonder. Most of the AEROBIKE come with deeper wheelset. Is the wheelset that actually make the different than the frame? Or maybe all this while the bike industry giving us all marketing gimmick of the AERO frames.
I knew the Hello would be a strong one given the title. Glad I was quick to reach the volume button 😃. The last two Cogs areas generally not used by riders anyways too much friction to get it rolling, damages chain and chainline is not straight. You have 3 bikes now. Look from Belinda with big Bazookas. Time and now this. Which one is your favourite and which one gives you the smoothest ride. Other UA-camrs would jump to a do a speed comparison for the us cycling freaks but I like you stick to your engineering only
Many aero frames feature a very wide down tube which should theoretically make a round water bottle function aerodynamically as an elongated down tube, or at least hide it from the air. This concept makes sense to me as opposed to the teardrop shape used on the T1500 which would seemingly be affected by having a round water bottle mounted at the tail end of it. Any thoughts about this? The downside is that my family is convinced that I'm riding an e-bike because the down tube is gigantic!
If you are into that level of aerodynamics. I would get an elite narrow bottle
@@Hambini Honestly the elite bottles are quite a bit overpriced, as are the similar aero bottles from manufacturers like arundel. Giant made one a few years ago that can be found for about 15 usd if you look around carefully.
@@yoda112358 pretty sure that’s the subtext - why bother unless you genuinely need the advantage (and at that point, you probably don’t need to buy it yourself)…
@@starwarssucks7867 in terms of making meaningful gains that's about as cheap as you can get, far cheaper than wheels, handlebars, etc
Tempting! Are the winspace costs in the PowerPoint in dollars fully landed /delivered here in the UK ? How long did it take for your order to arrive? Looks great 👍
The behind the bottom bracket brakes are wrong, these were tried on mountain bikes in the late 1980s, they worked great in California where its mostly dry, but not so good in Europe, where its often wet.
BB86 vs DUB: so it'll be OK if you're a lighter, hobby rider and/or willing to replace the bearings more regularly?
good work Hambini . thanks
That's a nice bike. I have no problem with it at all. Good job. 👍
Nice bike. What is that Shimano piece at 2:14? A quick disconnect?
I wonder what effect a proper aero backpack would have? Of course one cannot just buy one, they don't seem to exist. There can be an aero front as well. They are easy to make & fit under a spandex containing shirt very nicely. They don't have much effect if one is down on the lower bar, but how often is that?
Great video👍handy to know you can still buy a quality rim brake bike
Nice video thank you Engineer Hambini
Is a SLC2 a better bet for slow riders who go around 15 mph? Is there an approximate cut off where you would suggest aero is faster?
Can you recommend the frame for weird sized people like me with very short legs ocmpared to a large Torso? 80cm legs at 183cm total length.
Looking at the geometry table its very "agressive" even compared to an aeroad
love it. you spoke the truth for many people. GCN network is such a paid joke in bike industry
I have no idea how the heck you only have 97.4k followers with this information. I would challenge that even a non-cyclist would find this information useful, just for life itself/manufacturing. I also appreciate that you ride your bikes in normal weather and conditions, I do the same, it's a bike, I ride it, no garage queens here. Princess blanket though, that's another story....
In the dinosaur days we simply soldered the cable ends. It’s lighter and it works. Pretty sure you own a soldering gun!
I’m not sure about this, but when I looked at direct fit rim brakes, I could only buy them one at a time not as a pair. So why not put the rear rim brake in the normal position but as a centre bolt fit.
I literally spit my coffee out of my nose laughing at the “sports science” comment. 😂👏🏻👏🏻
Nice! Will you ever do MTBs?
Hey Hambini great video as always. What tire size are you using?
23
Maybe a 25mm or 28mm rear tire to fill the gap ? The width of the rear tire must have a very small drag penalty since its always in dirty air ? ???? It would smooth the ride too.
What type of grease or lubricant do you use to service the rear brakes? I have the same on my frame and it constantly gets stuck with dirt. Thanks
I asked about the availability of a T1500 rim in XL and they said they were all sold out. Rear brake looks so wrong there.
It's actually not a huge issue( but then I don't live in the UK so probably its not as wet and muddy here etc). Just a little annoying with setup etc.
How much distance are you getting on the dura ace crank arm before the bonding fails?
You got a bb86 frame? Isn’t it the most undesirable bottom bracket? I have had so many issues with many and so little options when it comes to cranckset
It usually is the lack of roundness of the BB hole in the frame that's the problem. Or poor fit. BB86 is actually a great system if you have a frame with good tolerances. I've done 24,000 km's on my BB86 bike and not one issue or creak, and still going strong.
Thanks! Loving this review and the software. I’ve been very tempted to get a 1500 or SLC2, rim brake versions, for a while. Been very difficult for my brain to settle on whether I really want to be as aero as possible or as light as possible. I know light weight and low inertia moments always feel goooood, for me, at my weight of 54kg fully kitted out. Aero and super stiff, dunno, but like the idea of increasing my speed on the flat. I’m 5ft 5. I would be choosing an XS, in either bike. I know it’s really hard to judge, but rough ball park figure, if possible, would be really interesting. Comparing the SLC2 to the 1500, what kind of watts difference could there be at say 40kph for the XS frames, same wheel and bar set up? I ask for 40kph, as this is about my flat out speed straight line speed on my local flat roads using my current set up, a non aero frame, with 50mm Bora ultras. No problem if this too vague/insufficient data to even make a rough guess - honesty and expertise is exactly why I like your reviews and comments.
Thanks for the contribution!
If you ping me an email with a shot of you from the side, I can give you a fairly decent estimate, there is a large amount of the rider affecting the bike as opposed to the out and out aerodynamics of the frame.
Aero is super important for such light riders as u (or me), putting out relatively small watts. But eight as well, so go for most aero/ligtest setup u can afford. Probably not a disc brake bake. My Canyon Aerod CF SLX:) (which I am perfectly satisfied with, since 2016) is a 6.9kg rim brake bike. (Costed 2500 euros as brand new back in the time).
Just wondering did you put your borescope down the frame to check for any issues internally?
Yes have a look at video 1
I always just wind a bit of thin copper wire around cable end and solder it on, smoother then the regular cable ends.
P.s.: those Dura-ace cracks are getting ridiculous by now, still not fixed the problem.
Do you plan to review a seka exceed?
Why not go a size smaller to get a longer stem, which would then calm the twitchiness down a bit? Also should be stiffer and lighter.
The stem and handlebars comes in fixed lengths.
Can the rear brake be replaced by a normal rear brake? It used to be some U-mount standard with specific rear brakes back in the day.
I don't think you can move it, the seat stays won't accommodate it.
I bought a Winspace T1500 aero frame but I was very disappointed ... the upper headset housing has more than a mm of play, I still mounted the bike because Winspace did not recognize the defect but now I'm afraid to go out with this bicycle because I think it is dangerous. Is there a way to fix this or do I have to throw the frame away? In a comment in another video of yours (Elves Vanyar) you were talking about tin foil, could you tell me the procedure? Do I have to use epoxy or some special glue and glue the foil into the landing?? Thanks hello from Italy
Did you ever fix this issue ?
@@kpsig hi, I putted a small amount of tin foil (without any glue) to fill the gap and the bearings are now not moving. I cutted also the fork tube another 1 cm to avoid too much "leverage" and often I check every part of the steering zone searching for scretches or cracks on the tube. At the moment there is no slack and all is fine, I did 1700 km with no bad issues. I will hope also in the future... Next check I will remove the tin foil and I'll put brass foil or a little pre formed piece of tin can. But the disappointment remains, from Winspace I really didn't expect it. Sorry for my bad english, hello from Italy
@@jdpowell69 There still seem to be such issues. I am thinking of the new T1550 but the price is no longer as attractive as it used to be.
@@kpsig Have you heard of such cases on any other T1500 frame? On the T1550: they raised the price and considering the possible purchase of the handlebar we are at around 2000 bucks, a bit too much in my opinion. Then only internal cable routing, which doesn't allow for control and maintenance of the headset except by cutting the brake cables every time... it's not for me. Plus the new colors are ugly (IMHO).
@@jdpowell69 Yes I had heard. As of the internal cabling, I am honestly thinking of wireless and then for the brakes go with mechanical disk brakes… Internal cabling does make a difference at any speed above 35km/hour
Winspace is the Li-Ning of bikes, pricey for a Chinese brand but quality is out of this world (I own lots of trainers and clothes from that brand)
is it worth thinking about going with Campagnolo Chorus instead of Ultegra or will Shimano sort it out? In sense of crankset quality
thankzzz
solid cranks will always be more durable. I would stay away from any composite or stamped crank.
@@firesurfer should i doubt 90s solid Shimano cranks would fit new build
I only got the pen is working thing once you mentioned it.... You've taken away my innocence
Shimano say stuff like "We are always studying and learning from our current products to make better products in the future, so feedback like this, even though in this case it was an anomaly..." So why are Dura-Ace cranks still failing? I use budget Shimano like Tiagra, Sora, FC-R563, and even an Altus rear mech on my commuter which give good service life so why can't they get it right with the high end stuff?
Different priorities. The first thing which people will do with a high end bike is pick it up and see how much it weighs.
Almost all high end stuff in this type of sport is for speed not for durability or reliability. Its not what it used to be, sadly.
Its like what my friend says when he uses his race car, "I use for it races, not as a daily driver". This is now relatable to road bikes for me now.
EDIT: just to be clear, i mean this in a sense, that when one buys a Carbon bike with Ultegra or Dura ace, its meant to race. Not all people that buys these races but they should expect racing gears aren't reliable.
It's kinda common that Ultegra is a little better than Dura-ace in durability department, but Dura-ace is lighter (Every gram counts in a race, and that's where Dura-ace should be in - a race).
@@jianhuichua1154 I'll agree to your point but as tech trickles down from Dura Ace to Ultegra, expect the issue.
Hambini, you should try the crap Sram eTap Force or Red that me & my friends are using. The crappy 48/35 or 46/33 Sram chainring makes cycling comfortable for crappy riders like me
Hi Hambini,
Have you heard of Polygon bikes? They are out of Indonesia. Their Helios frame is, according to them, 800 grams! Hmmm???
They are listing their Helios A9X with Dura Ace Di for $6,249 US. That to me is an incredible deal. After building a comprable bike with the Winspace T1500, I'd expect there is about a $1,000 savings with the Polygon.
They are using T700 carbon, so that sounds a bit questionable, as that seems to be the low end carbon for other manufacturers.
Please comment on the Polygon Helios bikes. I'm tempted to purchase one and avoid the effort of building a bike from parts.
Are you going to release that computer program? That looks quite something.
I assume the reference is around 20:40. Commercially, it's quite valuable to me because it is much faster than anyone running a CFD so you can do a lot of permutations in just a few minutes and it also includes the spokes which are very difficult to model in CFD. The pedalling system is actually quite complicated because if you look carefully you can see that even the toe down movement of my feet has been mapped. Basically, I use stuff like this to fund the channel so I can cut up more frames which is something I quite enjoy. So the short answer is I don't know... yet! sorry for the rant.
Does a left crank power meter fit in with disc brake version (inpeak, they say 1cm clearance, probably similar as stages?)? I am getting this frame now on black friday, and also there are sales for the power meter, so need to figure out If I should get it before the bike arrives, thanks :)
With the disc version yes. The rim version no. My 4iiii power meter didn’t fit on the rim.
@@Levelochef thank you, buying the disc one
What size frame did you get? What’s your seat height from BB centre to the saddle? Like you I have relatively long legs for my height.
it's an XL, and I'm 1.8m tall.
Im 1.77m and I use a size medium for my T1500. The guy who sold it to me installed a Hambini BB and he needed a size large as we were the same hight but different torso/arm lengths. I wear 30 inch inseam pants and the medium fits me excellent.
@@Hambini what made you go with the XL? I am about the same height as you and I was thinking the L was the right size for the Winspace... Also what size of frame is your Time?
You need a cadence sensor on both sides to hold the crank together
Hi whats your opinion on disc brakes?
I really wish someone would invent a powermeter insole that you obviously, put into your shoes. The power meter clearances and all of that are annoying, and if you switch cranks for example, annoying. Pedal based is fine, but then you need multiple for multiple bikes. I have 2 pairs of shoes, I rotate my new to old, when I get new, so I'd need 2 insoles. Some would need one. Maybe not even insoles but a pad/sensor you can throw in your shoe.
Questions:
1. Would you consider a lower rake fork to help close the gap to the downtube?
2. Would you recommend the disc brake on the rear for easier fit (where the aerodynamics don't matter as much) paired with a rim brake in the front?
I wouldn't mess with the rake, but I would recommend a scalloped down tube. For the brakes, the unavoidable drag is the pumping loss. On the front, a rim brake will avoid that loss and you'll also avoid the pressure drag. But it's a bit of a faff to set up. You'll need a disc frame and rim fork
When are you going to get an Elves frame set?
Already been reviewed. A viewer sent one in
if the frame costs 1600$, how do you make a whole bike for 2000? like you say in the preview
black friday deal
You went for XL? May I ask how tall are you to ride a 580 mm top tube?
He’s 1.8m from a previous conversation with me about T1500 frame sizing on the bottom bracket video
Hambini...love your rants, still not gonna bang my hairdresser, no worries.
I watched a video from a gentleman in Australia, Cam Nichols, who basically bought a Winspace frame a long time ago. Having listened to your contempt of unilateral bike/frame assessments from UA-camrs, his didn't seem off the mark, as he wasn't espousing/endorsing the typical "most aero bike ever" nonsense that most people do. Instead he spoke in terms of how "heavy" the bike felt, when riding, and frame flex. Did you feel that in your time on the Winspace?
Honestly, I'm tired of the marketing that big bike brands go on about, and the suppliers like Shimano forcing the average person into buying shit, like disc brakes, when rim brakes work just fine. Easier to change a wheel, easier to adjust, less expensive.
Anyway, so I'm always looking for viable information that affords me the ability to make better bike purchasing decisions.
I would also love it if you did a video on tire width, dispelling or confirming the need for wider tires(i do not like anyone telling me I need a 30mm tire or bigger), if you haven't already, and assess the Factor bike brand. I've seen you ream Canyon, Cannondale, Cervelo, Bianchi, Specialized, etc...
I would like to see if Factors QC department is what they advertise it to be; probably because I own two😄
Again, thanks for the channel.
What's the bar tape you're using please? Sorry I know that's an odd question
Cinelli bar end caps so its probs cinelli bar tape too.
@@jonnythelegs2597 thanks, that looks about what I'm after so ill go with that
No idea, whatever was cheap when I bought it.
I've just done search online regarding Shimano 105 R7000 cranks. There seems to be some doubt as to whether the crank arms are bonded together or are hollow forged. Some say they are bonded but the join line/seam is in a different place to the later (fail prone) Ultegra and Dura -ace crank arms. Some say only the drive side crank is bonded. Some say that both arms are hollow forged.
Does anyone know for sure that both cranks arms on all series of 105 are definitely hollow forged and not bonded two piece arms? has anyone cut them up? X-rayed them?
The latest generation is apparently glued. The previous generation was forged. I've got the previous generation on my bike
@@Hambini Yes It looks from your video that yours is the 7000 generation. The exploded view in shimano's tech docs shows that the latest 7100 generation has a wider and flatter crank arm as per the later ultegra and dura-ace gen.
Dreading when my ultegra cranks fail, gutted I gave a nice 105 crank to a mate
I guess this is lucky for winspace now that they are running their blackfriday campaign. Lets rejoice and may we be productive and prosperous.
Are there any high end cranksets you recommend? Am looking for a new groupset... I don't want the overpriced new Shimano 12spd electronic stuff, would consider a mechanical DA 11spd but these crank failures are concerning, or does one just cross fingers & hope for the best? Was considering going Record but just viewed your extensive educational reaming on Ultratorque and been put off that a bit... Sram red cranks have a high failure rate it seems. Whats the best of the bad bunch? Or perhaps go DA 11spd (mechanical/ rim) with a third party crank like Rotor? Is there anything out there recommended by a five year old engineer? Am too much of a perfume ponce to fit a 105 crank on my best bike..though that seems quite sensible...anyone tried running the new DA 12spd crank on the 11spd group?
Check out Rotor ALDHU24. Modularity is its strength.
@@yonglingng5640 Thankyou, yes looks a good option. I have a BB30 frame that was a bit of a creaker with Shimano24 until I installed a BB Converter. When going to Rotor I could run either the 30mm axle direct, or 24mm with converter. I wonder which is the better solution from an engineering perspective...I guess 30mm is lighter but 24mm has better bearing stance.
@@nellyx1x493 If you're on BB30 and your crankset isn't on a narrow-format 30 mm spindle (I call this true BB30), don't use spacers for 30 mm spindles and 30-to-24 mm converters for 24 mm spindles. You want the bearings to be right next to your crankarms.
This means you need a BB30 BB with outboard bearings, regardless of which spindle diameter you want. Rotor's 30 mm spindle is aluminium, but the 24 mm spindle is made out of steel.
As someone who's aiming to get an ALDHU one day, I'm going 24 mm as I don't want to be switching BBs. Also, there's a 24 mm spindle BB choice for every road BB standard out there (at least 15 of them on the top of my head).
@rollinrat4850 Yeah, thanks, that's interesting. This would be for my best bike which I try my darnedest not to use in the wet. I wonder what Mr. Hambini's doing to see off 4 of these sets... maybe he's packing some impressive heat in those pedal pins, or maybe it's the result of riding on heavily salted roads or in all weathers. Still, a well designed part should handle that. The Rotors look a good alternative... have Cann's SiSL2 on another bike and that is a similarly well engineered system, can be a bit creaky too though as many metal to metal interfaces...
Thank you for the objectivity
18:00 The larger size frames (all brands) always look good even with sloping TTs. the smaller the frame gets it becomes unappealing (at least to me).Bikes should also be advertised in their smaller sizes so shorter buyers know what they're gonna get.Call me shallow but, the more I love looking at my bike... the more I ride it.
That winspace looks almost exactly like the Ribble Areo Road SLR.. and if they made the minor amendments to the frame as you suggested here (scallop to down tube for front wheel and closer gap at rear wheel and downtube scallop) and this winspace would look an Exact replica or the ribble..
does winsapce make mtb frames too?
Another great reaming but man modern bikes geometry is way too twitchy for me. I’m not racing crits anymore.
Where can I get a bike like that?
Puts Hyper aero wheels... and lets a 5 meters cable hanging at the front :D
Can't believe you didn't get a new bottle cage!!!
It matches the princess
Why do you use rim brakes?
I've tried it and sadly I can confirm that a Stages left crank arm power meter will contact the rear brake caliper
HELLLOOOOO HAMBINI
Dunno about anyone else, but knob always flops to one side of saddle 😮
Have you had any reports of failures of the latest generation dura-ace and Ultegra crank arms (12 speed groupsets) which were released in the last 12 months? Has Shimano overcome the failures which occurred with the previous series?
They are still glued together and have 2 different materials so can make a battery so guessing not.
I don't think they've been out for long enough.
I wonder if Winspace ever plans to release a TT and Triathlon bike. That would be game over for the big brands.
Could have been so much cooler. Hydraulic disc brakes, sram axs mullet 1x with the 10-52 cassette. Get with the future Hambini.