Thanks for including 4k results. I understand why reviewers do 1080p testing but it's still nice to see what the 1% lows look like at higher resolutions. I wish more reviewers would start including these in their reviews.
every review and bench is useless for us normal people who maybe have a 5800x3d and want to know if we should upgrade. There are maybe 3 people in the world who buy a 2500 dollar 4090 and game at 1080p. Rest of us either are looking for sim VR or 4K performance.
💯... Including the higher resolutions is also about the value proposition. Oftentimes performance increase %age in real world game play at 1440p or 2160p are low and so upgrading may not be worth it. Yes raw performance testing at 1080p is interesting but it's not everything.
@@MaxIronsThird True and real. Almost every graph comparing CPUs show pretty much the same story, so people are asking for redundant testing lol. People need to better inform themselves on the things they buy and actually listen to the reasoning of reviewers when they say testing at higher resolutions is pointless.
Or at least go for a used 5800x3d, for gaming it should make quite a difference, and the cost difference should not be as nearly as crazy as the 9800x3d.
Great Review and big Thank You for including the 1440 and 4k Tests! I can save my pennies and wait to see what the 9900x3d and 9950x3d have to offer! Thank You!
keep in mind it's still really low graphics settings to try to keep the bottlenecks on the CPU instead of the GPU, but I was curious about how it impacts overall gameplay experience. a fair bit of stutter or frame dips come from momentarily overwhelming the cpu. can be true with rt also but rt testing gets into misleading results for other reasons
@@Level1Techs Almost all reviews are about 1080 or even 720 for .... reason. Many "x3D" enthusiasts will have to find a review with 5800vs9800 in 1440 now.
@@PC_Ringo For those of us who insist on 90-120FPS at reasonable solution without stupid amounts of upscaling, RT is still not a thing. That said, I can run Cyberpunk at a mix of High and Ultra raster settings, with RT reflections cranked to max, at 90FPS at 1440p Native on my XTX. If I had paid $1800 for a 4090 I would be incredibly miffed to find out that it can't do that at 4k Native (not that I have 4k monitors).
Lol I loved the Ricardo Montabon reference. I remember those old Cordova commercials with the rich Corinthian leather. For those who don't know, Corinthian leather was just a fancy word for vinyl LOL!
Excellent review. Makes you wonder how much of a revelation the 9950 X3D will be, when it comes out, in terms of realizing the full potential of Zen5 arc!
I game in 4K native as often as possible, using a 7800x3d and 4090. Not many channels benchmark games at 4K because it's usually a GPU bottleneck at that point. Thanks for showing 4K results. I was super excited for the 9800x3d but it looks like the uplift in 4K gaming isn't much at all. Looks like I'll be sitting this one out.
I love the intro way way too much, you made my day with that. As one of your resident Linux using fans who is currently sitting with a 7900XTX - please do a Level1Linux video with more of the 9800X3D paired the 7900XTX setup. Honestly this is making me feel like I really did jump the gun and pick up a 9950X - I do mixed things on my computer but man, the gains on the X3D is so large that I'm actually legit considering getting it and move the 9950X to my future homelab server instead. But I'd love to see how the future 9900X3D and 9950X3Ds will look, I play a lot of Stellaris and other similar games (shoutout to Dwarf Fortress, Factorio etc) those gains would be real nice. If you can make a demanding Factorio benchmark (from a save game of very large scale factory) I'd be over the moon.
@@4m470 Running water on either RDNA2 or RDNA3 will both net you around +8-12% depending on silicon quality. Neither generation are really all that limited by the cooling. The biggest benefit for water on either RDNA2 or RDNA3 is going to be noise reduction and significantly lower overall PCB/VRM temperatures that will likely increase component and solder joint lifespan.
@@4m470 I tried overclocking my XFX 7900XTX and I keep hitting power limitations rather than thermal limitations in the first few seconds where it basically crashed. I think water cooling allows longer boost just like in CPU. Expensive to do though. RDNA3 has be tuned to the max out of the box. Even VRAM can't be overclocked much. In game performance boost was slight. 1-3 fps at 4K so I gave up and just set to Rage mode whenever I game for higher sustained fps.
Oh the dual X3D CCD will be fun to see in games, we'll see how scheduler treats it and per game performance. With improved cache, can retain very good clocks with it now, though I'd expect scheduler to always try to keep the game in 1 CCD though. Or if maybe a game does have higher performance with more cores and well optimized with least cross CCD talk required. Using 7800X3D and 7900XTX it's great for sure, can easily last a while that's for sure. Now for future architectures if they could make 16c in single CCD keeping the non-c core type, even without SMT if it can make sense, I'd like such a chip.
What I'm excited for is what this means for the future. Maybe stacking stuff on top of the I/O die? Stacking multiple CCDs? Double Stacking cache etc... The future is more exciting to me.
@@duckrutt That will be in server-only CPUs to cut down on IPMI costs for server motherboard makers, this is never EVER coming to home platforms thanks to market segmentation.
I am hoping the 7900XT drops to $600usd or below this Black Friday. I am pefectly happy with the 5600X3D, for now. Going with the AM4 platform back in 2018 was the best PC gaming decision I ever made.
It doesn't matter how extremely desirable the 9800X3D performance is......there will always be someone on the internet who thinks the $30 price increase is outrageous. It's absolutely unforgivable that the hottest product on the market is THIRTY DOLLARS MORE!!! [Insert unhinged rants about corporate greed]
Awesome review. Gives me hope for an absolutely legendary dual CCD monster when the 16 core drops. It would be really dope to get the cache on both CCD's. Fingers crossed.
I am really glad you benchmarked more resolutions instead of including big charts with tons of cpus to make the 9800x3d look better at 1080p. I think it is too easy for people to forget that anyone spending nearly 500 dollars on a "gaming" cpu is not likely to be playing at 1080p still. Unless they are professional e sports players anyway. No other reviewer I watched even so much as mentioned that 1080p with a 4090 is not a common gaming scenario.
"anyone spending nearly 500 dollars on a "gaming" cpu is not likely to be playing at 1080p" - EXACTLY! At 4K the difference between even a 5800X3D and 9800X3D is minimal at best. For the wise gamer, if your on AM5, playing at 4K, your best gaming CPU is a 7800X3D - NOT a 9800X3D.
@@ChrisM541 No? You're greatly misinterpreting the value of faster cpus, they're for power users and esports professionals because for them better performance = more money. Also, another reason why you'd want the best cpu right now for gaming (if you have the money and you're buying brandnew not upgrading) is for futureproofing. Given AMD's track record we can expect them to keep their support promise till 2027 and be wishful that they'll extend atleast to 2030. So in the coming years you can potentially get better GPUS and still use the 9800x3d. Like for me, I've been on AM4 for 6 years now, upgraded the cpu (3400g -> 5600x) and gpu once (rx 570 8gb -> 6700xt), I could potentially buy an AMD 7000/Nvidia 4000 or an upcoming AMD 8000/Nvidia 5000 series gpu. The same scenario can be true to someone who's already on AM5 with a non x3d cpu, they can buy the 9800x3d and call it a day atleast till the end of the decade if all they do is game. And to reply to the OP, You can infer that the current gen cpus are too fast and most games on higher resolutions are GPU bottlenecked
@@Mathster_live "most games on higher resolutions are GPU bottlenecked" - this is, indeed, today's truth. The question is, how many GPU generations does the average gamer enthusiast have to wait till the GPU 'catches up' to their CPU? Remember, the definition of enthusiast does not include a level of affluence to purchase xx90 cards! In truth, the amount of headroom current 'good' CPU's have to fully feed future faster GPU's is remarkably high, and, new GPU's are deliberately engineered so as to maximise that CPU headroom - profit always comes first, and if that can be strung out then it 100% will be. So again, no need to buy a 9800X3D if you have or can purchase a lower x800X3D model.
@@ChrisM541 Ofcourse if you are just an average joe playing games, you absolutely don't need it so why are you so adamant in devaluing these CPUs for people who do actually have the purchasing power, have the need and/or want the assurance that their cpu is going to scale well during multiple GPU generations. Are you upset that people want the best of the best when the price is being jacked up by scalpers? I can see why you would be angry of people buying from scalpers because it really affects all users and buyers but after the initial hype and buyer mania dwindles then you can expect heavy discounts just like what happened to the 7800x3d.
Very much love the skits, keep them up. A month ago I was reading coping comments that "just wait, 285K with 8600mhz and Zen 5% is through." Rome has fallen for intel truly, this is the widest they've let the gap be in 20 years
It IS a faster clocked chip for one and that helps game play, and then it has more L1, that helps game play, so............... I tried looking up differences between IODs but that was too problematic, would have to get back to the launch of Zen 5 articles and do a bit of reading. I'd say it's mostly about more L1 and that for SURE helps game play as does a boost in ANY cache size along with faster cores.
@@johndoh5182 Zen 5 reuses the Zen 4 IOD - there's no difference. I wouldn't say it's the L1, because then standard Zen 5 would be a bigger uplift over standard Zen 4. Obviously clocks will be a factor, but generally I think Zen 5 is most likely bottlenecked with the Zen 4 IOD, thus not allowing Zen 5 to reach it's maximum potential. We don't see these issues on mobile (monolithic) or server (new IODs) for Zen 5 - just the Desktop configuration. The 3D cache enables Zen 5's wider execution to execute more reliably at that width where normally the IOD would starve it. A review (HUB or GN I think) showed that the 9800X3D multicore outperforms the 9700X while achieving similar clocks - thus inherently an IPC uplift has been enabled. Rumour has it that the Zen 5 R9 X3D parts will feature 3D V-cache on both chiplets. Now they're stacking the cache underneath they've mitigated the temperature sensitivity penalty that limited clocks, and if the extra cache actually helps feed the Zen 5 cores more than the IOD could typically be able to, the R9 X3D parts (particularly the 16-core) might actually out perform the standard 16-core due to the IPC uplifted granted by the cache.
It does also have a bit more power budget available to stay on peaks and iron out dips. And much the same for thermals. Zen 3 and Zen 4 X3D stacks were quite choked.
Zen 5 reuses the Zen 4 IOD. Also I doubt it's due to the increased L1 otherwise standard Zen 5 would've been more impressive vs standard Zen 4. HUB saw a 15% uplift for the 9800X3D versus the 9700X while achieving similar clocks (5.2GHz). Cinebench previously didn't seem to show much bias towards the 3D V-cache parts with the 7800X3D 5% slower than the 7700X with 6% slower clocks. Basically then we can deduce that the 3D V-cache appears to enable Zen 5 to utilise more of it's latent IPC - presumably the IOD then is the limiting factor which given how good Zen 5 is in mobile and server, explains why Zen 5 is so lackluster on desktop with AMD having decided to reuse the Zen 4 IOD.
While folks may be disappointed that the averages were not increased by an insane amount, I am sitting here blown away by the uplift in lows! This is freaking bonkers and it is truly awesome!
As someone with a 5900X CPU, I'm excited for this launch. Great video Wendell, appreciate the quick chart about SVM / Memory. Maybe do an extra video benchmark having the 9800X3D on different OC's / memory configurations to see if there is any difference? (Stock / 6000hz C30 vs Stock / 8000mhz vs PBO -10 6000/C30 vs PBO -10 vs 8000, etc? 1080/1440p/4K)
Thank you for th 4k info even though it "Shouldn't" matter still nice to see. Also, it would be interesting to perform the same testing against Dragon Age The Veilguard with RT on and Ultra RT on considering the specs say you need a 16 core.
Fantastic footage as ever Wendel!, also a nice word in for the 7900 XTX,here me with a 5800X3D and a 6800 XT heck I'm happy than ever, but the 9800X3D is surely a direction I want to explore in May of 2025, great innovations are finally coming round, that with the Navi 48 which I think will be named the Radeon RX 8800 XT will be a very nice date correct package, as I have done with my 5800X3D and it's Navi 21 XT, so with that I am skipping ZEN4 & Navi 31 XTX. What would be cool is if Intel & AMD bring back the HEDT platform, aka High End DeskTop series, Intel did this with LGA-1366, LGA-2011 & LGA-2066. AMD did have Threadripper but for all I know they ever had a HEDT line, so might be interesting for both intel &A MD to bring back these kind of systems just to widen choice.
I'm trying to find a SINGLE video about this, the only, review that has ps3 and switch emulation is techpowerup which cites a 1.5 fps difference? like what? my endgame pc build takes heavily into account rpcs3 so, if it's not much difference from other 9000 series then I'll get the best deal u know
Read Alexander Yee's Zen 5 Teardown. Sadly it won't help much, because emulators even when they use AVX-512, don't use 512 bit data/instructions (they mostly use 128 bit ones). I am not an expert on this, but Alexander Yee is. Uplift is only noticeable (2x speed) when using pure AVX-512 to it's fullest extent. Which Emulators don't do.
@@garenburnerchannel3936 Red Zen 5 Teardown by Alexander Yee. He mentions how it won't be useful for emulators. At least not now. Not with how emulators are written.
4k FPS is literally margin of error but Derrrrr I bought $500 CPU to play games at 1080p at least if I wanna game at 1080p I'll have all the FPS reeeeeeeeeee
Thank you very much for testing 1440P! Very useful to see whether the CPU is worth it If I game at 3440x1440 with 7900XTX, upgrading from 9900K, it seems like 7800X3D would be more cost effective than the 9800X3D?
i come here after watching linus video... i didnt even finish his video... how suck linus can be right now... im glad i come here... thank you for including some of frametime... its far better indicator than fps if u reach 100+ fps... i once use intel 6th gen then 1st ryzen out... then i choose r5 1600... intel 8th was higher fps at that moment but i was happy getting 1600 coz the consistency in frametime... playing dota and csgo with stuck stuck frame even just milisecond can make u got emotional damage
I'll wait for the 9950 x3D but I'm very happy AMD got another winner maybe 7xxx x3d prices will go down as I just checked and their prices kept increasing since Intel was exposed the 7800x3D is +100$ from MSRP here borderlands 3 apparently gained 100fps between my current 7950x and the 7800x3d that's crazy can't wait to see my uber modded skyrim on x3D
You get better improvements by improving your SSD (through better SSD or getting a motherboard that support newer PCIe) or with more cores. 3D VCache makes a difference but not as much as the other two.
@funkintonbeardo yeah you're probably right but I want to do some digging with it. Like do different compilers/languages benefit more than others? How is LTO affected?
@@stephenreaves3205 to give more information. You should check out Phoronix's 9800X3D review. Micheal does Linux compilation benchmarks, which is the platform to do compilation benchmarks. On Windows, NTFS is your bottleneck.
I installed a 7TB industrial NVME drive for my dev drive. Compile performance is noticeably faster (coming from an Optane drive which is already fast) but, pre-compiled headers made more of an impact. Compile performance feels like it''s gated by the hard drive.
I play at 4k so i will stick with my 4090 and Core Duo 😛. Seriously tho I would like to see a 4090 w/ 5800X3D @4k vs 4090 w/ 9800X3D @ 4k. Or even the 7800X3D in the mix.
Thank you so much for 4k benchmarks. I have a 7950x3d and a 4090 with a 4k monitor. I knew there was going to be little to no gains in 4k but it’s nice to see that and reassure myself that it’s not worth the upgrade.
there is people buying it thinking its gonna double their fps in 4k........i swear to god some people don't know what they are doing but anyway if you wanna upgrade if you have to upgrade...............9950x3d 16 core comes out early next year if you itching to spend money......
I have a 7800X3D and 4090 build and I am upgrading. Large gains to be had in cpu bound competitive titles, especially given how overclockable the 9800X3D is.
finally somebody showing 1440p, most tests only show 720p-1080p. i get that its the best resolutuib to test cpus on paper, but nobody plays on 1080p with a 4090 and 9800x3d
Love your video, so much info that's 100% correct with even best GPU advice. I shared it on my socials. Expects your views to go even higher. We are VR flyers in MSFS2020 and the 19th this month we'll all be flying in VR in MSFS2024 aka Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 that will use all the CPU cores you can give it is what MS & Asobo said. I hope you get the chance to test it with a VR headset like the Pimax Crystal Light we all need to buy since MS cut WMR out of Windows 11 version 24H2 and bricks all our HP Reverb G2 headsets.
I have a 7950X3D + XTX for software development and fun. It blows my mind that the 9800X3D is 13-18% faster in code compile in the Phoronix battery. If AMD puts V-Cache on both CCDs for the 9950X3D I might convince myself that I need it. If AMD has gone ahead and binned the absolute snot out of the CCDs that gets used for the 9950X3D so it's even closer in max boost to the 9950X than the 9800X3D is to the 9700X then I WILL convince myself that I need it.
the one thing not talked about here is the temps in gaming, which are amazing! they increased the max temp and it runs cooler then the 7800x3d in games so serious bonus time there
There's no need to double-stack Vcache. There should be enough surface area to cramp 192MB in the current silicon with all the TSVs under the CCD. Thermals should still be fine. The Vcache is not running hot. Thanks for testing 7900XTX at 4K. I'm sure upgrading from 5900X will have some impact at 4K. 5-10% maybe. Looking forward to 9950X3D for AI workload. Maybe I will buy a second 7900XTX for extra 24GB VRAM. AI loves RAM. ROCm performance in WSL and Windows is great. Will have to buy a good X870 motherboard so I can run 4x 32GB DDR5 6000MT/s ram.
HI Wendell. Thank you very much for the review. It looks great overall. I have a question though. I only play World of Warcraft (WoW) and I can't find any benchmarks that definitively reveal the impact of 3d vcache on WoW. Can you benchmark WoW and show if it 3d vcache gives noticeable FPS gains or not? It would be very helpful in choosing my next CPU. I know that FFXIV is close but that's just a benchmark and not a proper representation of game performance when tied in to the servers.
Do server tasks like SQL DBs and web servers benefit from 3D VCache, generally speaking? I'd imagine databases might love that cache space... anyone have details or links to resources here?
Switching to Linux for gaming was definitely a good choice. The initial investment to learn how modding games works with the additional middle ware wine/proton has definitely cost a few nerves and lots of time. But I think, overall, it's worth it.
Awesome news! Now i'm really, really curious about the 9900- and 9950x3D. Did you try already and test how the 9800x3D performs at 7800x3D level? That would be really interesting to see how much cooler it stays and how it still performs in comparison!
Still a proud owner of 7800X3D and 7900XTX (early adopter), but am happy to see AMD making strides in the right direction. Definitely will skip this gen but boy, for those looking to gather components for a new PC, what a time...
That intro though lmfao! I love your ridiculousness!
Yes funny intro!
Right?! :D
I mean I was forced to upvoted just 20 sec in lol
God you don't appreciate Level1's non click bait titles until you look at the rest of the tech youtubers.
Wendel baits me with his stunning good looks 😭
Thanks for including 4k results. I understand why reviewers do 1080p testing but it's still nice to see what the 1% lows look like at higher resolutions. I wish more reviewers would start including these in their reviews.
every review and bench is useless for us normal people who maybe have a 5800x3d and want to know if we should upgrade. There are maybe 3 people in the world who buy a 2500 dollar 4090 and game at 1080p. Rest of us either are looking for sim VR or 4K performance.
💯... Including the higher resolutions is also about the value proposition. Oftentimes performance increase %age in real world game play at 1440p or 2160p are low and so upgrading may not be worth it. Yes raw performance testing at 1080p is interesting but it's not everything.
@@PC_Ringo Yeah the 1080p benchmarks are really mostly useful for pointless dick waving in the end.
the 1% low looks the same in 1080p and 4K. these mohons don't stop damn
@@MaxIronsThird True and real. Almost every graph comparing CPUs show pretty much the same story, so people are asking for redundant testing lol. People need to better inform themselves on the things they buy and actually listen to the reasoning of reviewers when they say testing at higher resolutions is pointless.
Favorite quote of the day: "Neat!"
i currently have a 3900x with a 6900 XT. I think its time for one of these newfangled X3D CPUs I've being hearing about for the last few years
9800x3d FTW! Go for it!!!
Or at least go for a used 5800x3d, for gaming it should make quite a difference, and the cost difference should not be as nearly as crazy as the 9800x3d.
Second hand 5800X3D means keeping AM4 and just that mod will blow you away. (I have 5800X3D/6900XT).
or 5700X3D
@@jannegreyDepending on price and availability where you're at, this can be a huge saver for a very modest performance impact.
Great Review and big Thank You for including the 1440 and 4k Tests! I can save my pennies and wait to see what the 9900x3d and 9950x3d have to offer! Thank You!
Just ordered mine, can't wait to build it.
THANK YOU for 1440p and 4k testing!
keep in mind it's still really low graphics settings to try to keep the bottlenecks on the CPU instead of the GPU, but I was curious about how it impacts overall gameplay experience. a fair bit of stutter or frame dips come from momentarily overwhelming the cpu. can be true with rt also but rt testing gets into misleading results for other reasons
@@Level1Techs
Understood, and thank you again.
@@Level1Techs Almost all reviews are about 1080 or even 720 for .... reason. Many "x3D" enthusiasts will have to find a review with 5800vs9800 in 1440 now.
Thats just stupid though. 144p testing please just to troll the tards?! 😊
yes, not many channels do 1440p, and when you ask why not you get savaged in the comments section.
Thank you for being one of the only channels testing these CPU's at 4K.
A fellow 7900XTX fan! I have the Sapphire Nitro and it's not just fast, it's the best looking GPU so far.
As an owner of the XFX speedster version, it's nice to see the 7900 XTX getting some love and attention
If ray tracing wasn't a thing everyone would be going for the 7900XTX. It is an excellent card no doubt
@@PC_Ringo For those of us who insist on 90-120FPS at reasonable solution without stupid amounts of upscaling, RT is still not a thing. That said, I can run Cyberpunk at a mix of High and Ultra raster settings, with RT reflections cranked to max, at 90FPS at 1440p Native on my XTX. If I had paid $1800 for a 4090 I would be incredibly miffed to find out that it can't do that at 4k Native (not that I have 4k monitors).
Asrock Taichi 7900xtx over here man.
awesome intro Wendell ;-) thanks for the review!
Thank you for the 4K results... I'll be keeping my 7800X3D. 😊
I hope you are doing well Wendell.
You need a hug.
I need a hug.
We all need a hug.
I just need more knebep
Hugs are good.
@@Terran.Marine.2 and teddy bears
I must be one of the few tech people who doesn’t need a hug today
You need a hug today? Is it because the 'consumer friend' AMD is raising prices now that they're market dominant?
Lol I loved the Ricardo Montabon reference. I remember those old Cordova commercials with the rich Corinthian leather. For those who don't know, Corinthian leather was just a fancy word for vinyl LOL!
It was a marketing term for the whole interior, only the rear of the seat backs and door panels were vinyl, the primary upholstery was actual leather.
I remember those commercials. We are old lol
KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is all I know about Ricardo Montabon. 😂
@@erictayet I STILL love watching him in that role!
Excellent review. Makes you wonder how much of a revelation the 9950 X3D will be, when it comes out, in terms of realizing the full potential of Zen5 arc!
it needs to have v-cache on both CCDs
@@MaxIronsThirdthat is the current rumor. Jayz2Cents hinted at exactly that in his 9800X3D video.
@@Kvantum why would he know, it's not like he has 9950X3D samples yet, they're only coming out next year
God, a 9950X3D with both CCDs having v-cache would be insane.
@@Kvantum I think he said cache on both ccd's was on his WISHLIST in that review...
I game in 4K native as often as possible, using a 7800x3d and 4090. Not many channels benchmark games at 4K because it's usually a GPU bottleneck at that point. Thanks for showing 4K results. I was super excited for the 9800x3d but it looks like the uplift in 4K gaming isn't much at all. Looks like I'll be sitting this one out.
I love the intro way way too much, you made my day with that. As one of your resident Linux using fans who is currently sitting with a 7900XTX - please do a Level1Linux video with more of the 9800X3D paired the 7900XTX setup. Honestly this is making me feel like I really did jump the gun and pick up a 9950X - I do mixed things on my computer but man, the gains on the X3D is so large that I'm actually legit considering getting it and move the 9950X to my future homelab server instead. But I'd love to see how the future 9900X3D and 9950X3Ds will look, I play a lot of Stellaris and other similar games (shoutout to Dwarf Fortress, Factorio etc) those gains would be real nice. If you can make a demanding Factorio benchmark (from a save game of very large scale factory) I'd be over the moon.
The intro is great, love the theme of it... Also the yellow geiger counter in the background, top prop.
As a 79xtx owner.... THANK YOU!
(it's also on water :) )
Bro, how much faster is you 7900XTX on water? Can you please give some performance numbers and stats?
@@4m470 Running water on either RDNA2 or RDNA3 will both net you around +8-12% depending on silicon quality. Neither generation are really all that limited by the cooling. The biggest benefit for water on either RDNA2 or RDNA3 is going to be noise reduction and significantly lower overall PCB/VRM temperatures that will likely increase component and solder joint lifespan.
@@4m470 I tried overclocking my XFX 7900XTX and I keep hitting power limitations rather than thermal limitations in the first few seconds where it basically crashed.
I think water cooling allows longer boost just like in CPU. Expensive to do though.
RDNA3 has be tuned to the max out of the box. Even VRAM can't be overclocked much. In game performance boost was slight. 1-3 fps at 4K so I gave up and just set to Rage mode whenever I game for higher sustained fps.
Oh the dual X3D CCD will be fun to see in games, we'll see how scheduler treats it and per game performance. With improved cache, can retain very good clocks with it now, though I'd expect scheduler to always try to keep the game in 1 CCD though. Or if maybe a game does have higher performance with more cores and well optimized with least cross CCD talk required.
Using 7800X3D and 7900XTX it's great for sure, can easily last a while that's for sure.
Now for future architectures if they could make 16c in single CCD keeping the non-c core type, even without SMT if it can make sense, I'd like such a chip.
it seems 7800X3D is much better than 9800X3D as the new CPU consumes much much more power to achieve the same FPS.
What I'm excited for is what this means for the future.
Maybe stacking stuff on top of the I/O die?
Stacking multiple CCDs?
Double Stacking cache etc...
The future is more exciting to me.
A weenie core and a little bit of ram so everyone gets ipmi from the io die? Yes please.
Zen 7 is supposed to have the IOD below the CCDs.
Stacking CEOs on top of each other
@@duckrutt That will be in server-only CPUs to cut down on IPMI costs for server motherboard makers, this is never EVER coming to home platforms thanks to market segmentation.
Intro is epic lol Great video.
Great job Wendell.
Wendel - The Ricardo Montablan comparison is appreciated 🤣
I would desperately like to see Factorio, modded mc, satisfactory, planet coaster or similar in theese benchmarks.
Comparing a couple outlets the the 9800x3d is about 60-70ups Faster than the 7800x3d which was about 50ups faster than the 5800x3d
@@Bobis32 how did they bench it? :)
@@RawmanFilm raw ups limit doesn't account for megabasing will need to test that ourselves
I love the moonlight sonata movement 1 at the start.
I think it took 20 yrs of hearing it to not get goosebumps. There's so much emotion crammed in it.
Ahhh jet set willy.. 😌
I played this piece in contests. My favorite.
@@TheGuruStud I also love how Beethoven wrote movement 3 to be a complete 180 from the pace and tone of movement 1.
I am hoping the 7900XT drops to $600usd or below this Black Friday. I am pefectly happy with the 5600X3D, for now. Going with the AM4 platform back in 2018 was the best PC gaming decision I ever made.
Thanks for the laughs this morning!!!
It doesn't matter how extremely desirable the 9800X3D performance is......there will always be someone on the internet who thinks the $30 price increase is outrageous. It's absolutely unforgivable that the hottest product on the market is THIRTY DOLLARS MORE!!! [Insert unhinged rants about corporate greed]
Awesome review. Gives me hope for an absolutely legendary dual CCD monster when the 16 core drops. It would be really dope to get the cache on both CCD's. Fingers crossed.
I am really glad you benchmarked more resolutions instead of including big charts with tons of cpus to make the 9800x3d look better at 1080p.
I think it is too easy for people to forget that anyone spending nearly 500 dollars on a "gaming" cpu is not likely to be playing at 1080p still. Unless they are professional e sports players anyway.
No other reviewer I watched even so much as mentioned that 1080p with a 4090 is not a common gaming scenario.
"anyone spending nearly 500 dollars on a "gaming" cpu is not likely to be playing at 1080p" - EXACTLY! At 4K the difference between even a 5800X3D and 9800X3D is minimal at best. For the wise gamer, if your on AM5, playing at 4K, your best gaming CPU is a 7800X3D - NOT a 9800X3D.
@@ChrisM541 No? You're greatly misinterpreting the value of faster cpus, they're for power users and esports professionals because for them better performance = more money.
Also, another reason why you'd want the best cpu right now for gaming (if you have the money and you're buying brandnew not upgrading) is for futureproofing. Given AMD's track record we can expect them to keep their support promise till 2027 and be wishful that they'll extend atleast to 2030. So in the coming years you can potentially get better GPUS and still use the 9800x3d.
Like for me, I've been on AM4 for 6 years now, upgraded the cpu (3400g -> 5600x) and gpu once (rx 570 8gb -> 6700xt), I could potentially buy an AMD 7000/Nvidia 4000 or an upcoming AMD 8000/Nvidia 5000 series gpu. The same scenario can be true to someone who's already on AM5 with a non x3d cpu, they can buy the 9800x3d and call it a day atleast till the end of the decade if all they do is game.
And to reply to the OP, You can infer that the current gen cpus are too fast and most games on higher resolutions are GPU bottlenecked
@@Mathster_live "most games on higher resolutions are GPU bottlenecked" - this is, indeed, today's truth. The question is, how many GPU generations does the average gamer enthusiast have to wait till the GPU 'catches up' to their CPU? Remember, the definition of enthusiast does not include a level of affluence to purchase xx90 cards!
In truth, the amount of headroom current 'good' CPU's have to fully feed future faster GPU's is remarkably high, and, new GPU's are deliberately engineered so as to maximise that CPU headroom - profit always comes first, and if that can be strung out then it 100% will be.
So again, no need to buy a 9800X3D if you have or can purchase a lower x800X3D model.
@@ChrisM541 Ofcourse if you are just an average joe playing games, you absolutely don't need it so why are you so adamant in devaluing these CPUs for people who do actually have the purchasing power, have the need and/or want the assurance that their cpu is going to scale well during multiple GPU generations.
Are you upset that people want the best of the best when the price is being jacked up by scalpers? I can see why you would be angry of people buying from scalpers because it really affects all users and buyers but after the initial hype and buyer mania dwindles then you can expect heavy discounts just like what happened to the 7800x3d.
Very much love the skits, keep them up.
A month ago I was reading coping comments that "just wait, 285K with 8600mhz and Zen 5% is through."
Rome has fallen for intel truly, this is the widest they've let the gap be in 20 years
Zen5X3D must have massively improved latency over Zen4X3D, we're seeing 20% improvement in multiple games.
What a legend.
It IS a faster clocked chip for one and that helps game play, and then it has more L1, that helps game play, so...............
I tried looking up differences between IODs but that was too problematic, would have to get back to the launch of Zen 5 articles and do a bit of reading.
I'd say it's mostly about more L1 and that for SURE helps game play as does a boost in ANY cache size along with faster cores.
@@johndoh5182 Zen 5 reuses the Zen 4 IOD - there's no difference.
I wouldn't say it's the L1, because then standard Zen 5 would be a bigger uplift over standard Zen 4.
Obviously clocks will be a factor, but generally I think Zen 5 is most likely bottlenecked with the Zen 4 IOD, thus not allowing Zen 5 to reach it's maximum potential. We don't see these issues on mobile (monolithic) or server (new IODs) for Zen 5 - just the Desktop configuration.
The 3D cache enables Zen 5's wider execution to execute more reliably at that width where normally the IOD would starve it. A review (HUB or GN I think) showed that the 9800X3D multicore outperforms the 9700X while achieving similar clocks - thus inherently an IPC uplift has been enabled.
Rumour has it that the Zen 5 R9 X3D parts will feature 3D V-cache on both chiplets. Now they're stacking the cache underneath they've mitigated the temperature sensitivity penalty that limited clocks, and if the extra cache actually helps feed the Zen 5 cores more than the IOD could typically be able to, the R9 X3D parts (particularly the 16-core) might actually out perform the standard 16-core due to the IPC uplifted granted by the cache.
It does also have a bit more power budget available to stay on peaks and iron out dips. And much the same for thermals. Zen 3 and Zen 4 X3D stacks were quite choked.
Zen 5 reuses the Zen 4 IOD. Also I doubt it's due to the increased L1 otherwise standard Zen 5 would've been more impressive vs standard Zen 4.
HUB saw a 15% uplift for the 9800X3D versus the 9700X while achieving similar clocks (5.2GHz). Cinebench previously didn't seem to show much bias towards the 3D V-cache parts with the 7800X3D 5% slower than the 7700X with 6% slower clocks. Basically then we can deduce that the 3D V-cache appears to enable Zen 5 to utilise more of it's latent IPC - presumably the IOD then is the limiting factor which given how good Zen 5 is in mobile and server, explains why Zen 5 is so lackluster on desktop with AMD having decided to reuse the Zen 4 IOD.
"More L1..." 😂 🤦♂️
Armchair experts extraordinaire.
thanks for the intro that did make me laugh after a rough day and thanks for the good review =)
While folks may be disappointed that the averages were not increased by an insane amount, I am sitting here blown away by the uplift in lows! This is freaking bonkers and it is truly awesome!
Just numbers, most of the time you won't notice it in game.
Pleasure to watch, well done !
As someone with a 5900X CPU, I'm excited for this launch. Great video Wendell, appreciate the quick chart about SVM / Memory. Maybe do an extra video benchmark having the 9800X3D on different OC's / memory configurations to see if there is any difference? (Stock / 6000hz C30 vs Stock / 8000mhz vs PBO -10 6000/C30 vs PBO -10 vs 8000, etc? 1080/1440p/4K)
Go watch HUBs review, Steve already tested that.
Thanks Wendell, your enthusiasm for tech is always refreshing
The introduction was beautiful. Way to go AMD! What a great processor all around.
Thank you for th 4k info even though it "Shouldn't" matter still nice to see. Also, it would be interesting to perform the same testing against Dragon Age The Veilguard with RT on and Ultra RT on considering the specs say you need a 16 core.
Fantastic footage as ever Wendel!, also a nice word in for the 7900 XTX,here me with a 5800X3D and a 6800 XT heck I'm happy than ever, but the 9800X3D is surely a direction I want to explore in May of 2025, great innovations are finally coming round, that with the Navi 48 which I think will be named the Radeon RX 8800 XT will be a very nice date correct package, as I have done with my 5800X3D and it's Navi 21 XT, so with that I am skipping ZEN4 & Navi 31 XTX.
What would be cool is if Intel & AMD bring back the HEDT platform, aka High End DeskTop series, Intel did this with LGA-1366, LGA-2011 & LGA-2066. AMD did have Threadripper but for all I know they ever had a HEDT line, so might be interesting for both intel &A MD to bring back these kind of systems just to widen choice.
Always a good time when Wendel is Wendelling!
Well AVX-512 is huge if you want to emulate PS3, if I recall correctly.
I'm trying to find a SINGLE video about this, the only, review that has ps3 and switch emulation is techpowerup which cites a 1.5 fps difference? like what? my endgame pc build takes heavily into account rpcs3 so, if it's not much difference from other 9000 series then I'll get the best deal u know
apparently the specific instructions used by PS3 emulation are not the ones boosted by Zen 4 to Zen 5@@garenburnerchannel3936
Read Alexander Yee's Zen 5 Teardown.
Sadly it won't help much, because emulators even when they use AVX-512, don't use 512 bit data/instructions (they mostly use 128 bit ones). I am not an expert on this, but Alexander Yee is.
Uplift is only noticeable (2x speed) when using pure AVX-512 to it's fullest extent. Which Emulators don't do.
@@garenburnerchannel3936 Red Zen 5 Teardown by Alexander Yee. He mentions how it won't be useful for emulators. At least not now. Not with how emulators are written.
Check out TechPowerUp. They test RPCS3, although with one game, RDR and AVX-512 doesn't really help much
Thank you!
I've seen 45 seconds and this is my favorite video I've seen all week.
4k FPS is literally margin of error but Derrrrr I bought $500 CPU to play games at 1080p at least if I wanna game at 1080p I'll have all the FPS reeeeeeeeeee
Thank you very much for testing 1440P! Very useful to see whether the CPU is worth it
If I game at 3440x1440 with 7900XTX, upgrading from 9900K, it seems like 7800X3D would be more cost effective than the 9800X3D?
Really excited to see the 9950X3D. It's actually pretty easy to fix 7950X3D problems with Process Lasso IMO so I can't wait.
Best chapter title ever. Keep calm and carry on Wendelling
Great intro music. Some real classics.
Idk I am still on my Athlon CPU, maybe I will find a reason to upgrade one day
2500+ xp
@@ThaexakaMavro oooh 2500 was a good one, nice performance per dollar at the time.
Athlon 😂😂. Bruh You need to treat yourself!
wtf
Jeez. I've got an Athlon, but its the latest one, i.e.: the 3000G. That plus a mobo and plus 16GB RAM cost like £130.
Me: finally upgrading from my Core i9 HEDT that’s still 14nm and uses 500W…
Goodbye space heater you will be missed
Your intros are getting amazinger
Every video on this platform needs to have "Wendel Wendelling" segment.
i come here after watching linus video... i didnt even finish his video... how suck linus can be right now... im glad i come here...
thank you for including some of frametime... its far better indicator than fps if u reach 100+ fps...
i once use intel 6th gen then 1st ryzen out... then i choose r5 1600... intel 8th was higher fps at that moment but i was happy getting 1600 coz the consistency in frametime... playing dota and csgo with stuck stuck frame even just milisecond can make u got emotional damage
Looking at the 4K results, I still don't see the value to upgrade.
I ordered one at my local store and I will pick it up when it comes by :)
Currently on a 12700K can't wait to upgrade to this should pair nicely with my 7900 XT. Awesome video +1 sub
Hey Wendell, what’s the wonderful beige box on the top shelf behind you? Looks a lot like a piece of HP test equipment!
Haill to the New King! And came 9800X3D came to papa!😂
price abit meh though why it sells 2x of 245k its silly, 245k can 6ghz easily
@iikatinggangsengii2471 All the new Core Ultra Flop for Gaming sucks!
Wendell, unlike the last Intel CPU, this one is the one I've been waiting for. Let's hope there's no trauma and we get to celebrate another win.
I'll wait for the 9950 x3D but I'm very happy AMD got another winner maybe 7xxx x3d prices will go down as I just checked and their prices kept increasing since Intel was exposed the 7800x3D is +100$ from MSRP here borderlands 3 apparently gained 100fps between my current 7950x and the 7800x3d that's crazy can't wait to see my uber modded skyrim on x3D
Linux benchmarking and comparisons to chips like the 9700x on resolutions ABOVE 1080p would be highly appreciated
YESSS THANK YOU A REVIEW WHO ACTUALLY DID 1440p
This may be a Level1Linux question, but how does 3DVcache affect code compilation performance?
You get better improvements by improving your SSD (through better SSD or getting a motherboard that support newer PCIe) or with more cores. 3D VCache makes a difference but not as much as the other two.
@funkintonbeardo yeah you're probably right but I want to do some digging with it. Like do different compilers/languages benefit more than others? How is LTO affected?
@@stephenreaves3205 to give more information. You should check out Phoronix's 9800X3D review. Micheal does Linux compilation benchmarks, which is the platform to do compilation benchmarks. On Windows, NTFS is your bottleneck.
I installed a 7TB industrial NVME drive for my dev drive. Compile performance is noticeably faster (coming from an Optane drive which is already fast) but, pre-compiled headers made more of an impact. Compile performance feels like it''s gated by the hard drive.
Why this retarded ass app removing my comments
Love the intro. Moonlight Sonata was a great choice
Dang, in the first 20 seconds, Windell checked off most of the Level1Techs Bingo card. lol
I play at 4k so i will stick with my 4090 and Core Duo 😛. Seriously tho I would like to see a 4090 w/ 5800X3D @4k vs 4090 w/ 9800X3D @ 4k. Or even the 7800X3D in the mix.
Come on AMD!
9960X3D and 9965WX3D
9970X3D and 9975WX3D
9980X3D and 9985WX3D
Thank you so much for 4k benchmarks. I have a 7950x3d and a 4090 with a 4k monitor. I knew there was going to be little to no gains in 4k but it’s nice to see that and reassure myself that it’s not worth the upgrade.
there is people buying it thinking its gonna double their fps in 4k........i swear to god some people don't know what they are doing but anyway if you wanna upgrade if you have to upgrade...............9950x3d 16 core comes out early next year if you itching to spend money......
I have a 7800X3D and 4090 build and I am upgrading. Large gains to be had in cpu bound competitive titles, especially given how overclockable the 9800X3D is.
Thank you, Wendell. 🙏🏼
finally somebody showing 1440p, most tests only show 720p-1080p. i get that its the best resolutuib to test cpus on paper, but nobody plays on 1080p with a 4090 and 9800x3d
That wonderful 7900XTX Taichi White!
*glances down towards tower....
Hmmm, looks even better running. 😊😊
3:30 Although they did not increase the VCache, they did bump the L1 cache from 512kb to 640kb. :)
Love your video, so much info that's 100% correct with even best GPU advice. I shared it on my socials. Expects your views to go even higher. We are VR flyers in MSFS2020 and the 19th this month we'll all be flying in VR in MSFS2024 aka Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 that will use all the CPU cores you can give it is what MS & Asobo said. I hope you get the chance to test it with a VR headset like the Pimax Crystal Light we all need to buy since MS cut WMR out of Windows 11 version 24H2 and bricks all our HP Reverb G2 headsets.
I have a 7950X3D + XTX for software development and fun. It blows my mind that the 9800X3D is 13-18% faster in code compile in the Phoronix battery. If AMD puts V-Cache on both CCDs for the 9950X3D I might convince myself that I need it. If AMD has gone ahead and binned the absolute snot out of the CCDs that gets used for the 9950X3D so it's even closer in max boost to the 9950X than the 9800X3D is to the 9700X then I WILL convince myself that I need it.
Nice intro for this video
Good stuff! The only thing I would have liked to see added in the list was a 9700x, just to see the difference with the same gen.
Did you set eco mode with the amd software or bios? If bios what values did you use?
That intro was perfect 😂
Neat!
GN Steve tried to make a Sportsball analogy. I like blowing up the launch pad better 😉.
12:59 KHAN!!!!
the one thing not talked about here is the temps in gaming, which are amazing! they increased the max temp and it runs cooler then the 7800x3d in games so serious bonus time there
Oh yes what an intro!
There's no need to double-stack Vcache. There should be enough surface area to cramp 192MB in the current silicon with all the TSVs under the CCD. Thermals should still be fine. The Vcache is not running hot.
Thanks for testing 7900XTX at 4K. I'm sure upgrading from 5900X will have some impact at 4K. 5-10% maybe.
Looking forward to 9950X3D for AI workload. Maybe I will buy a second 7900XTX for extra 24GB VRAM. AI loves RAM. ROCm performance in WSL and Windows is great.
Will have to buy a good X870 motherboard so I can run 4x 32GB DDR5 6000MT/s ram.
plus the fact that any more would be diminishing returns, same reason why they never released the 3D stacked infinitycache model of the 7900XTX
@ChristmasCrustacean1 agree for Zen 5 but for RDNA3, I'm not so sure.
04:54 : Proof Wendell is a cyborg. Caught him short circuiting out of excitement
any testing with the 9800x3d on a b650e motherboard ?
should run just fine imo
HI Wendell. Thank you very much for the review. It looks great overall.
I have a question though. I only play World of Warcraft (WoW) and I can't find any benchmarks that definitively reveal the impact of 3d vcache on WoW. Can you benchmark WoW and show if it 3d vcache gives noticeable FPS gains or not? It would be very helpful in choosing my next CPU. I know that FFXIV is close but that's just a benchmark and not a proper representation of game performance when tied in to the servers.
Wendell gettin' crazy with the cheese whiz on the intro!
-bZj
Awesome intro
Do server tasks like SQL DBs and web servers benefit from 3D VCache, generally speaking? I'd imagine databases might love that cache space... anyone have details or links to resources here?
Check Phoronix tests of this cpu, there are some postgresql benchmarks. It does help.
Intro ❤
Switching to Linux for gaming was definitely a good choice. The initial investment to learn how modding games works with the additional middle ware wine/proton has definitely cost a few nerves and lots of time. But I think, overall, it's worth it.
I love the intro 😂
Awesome news! Now i'm really, really curious about the 9900- and 9950x3D.
Did you try already and test how the 9800x3D performs at 7800x3D level? That would be really interesting to see how much cooler it stays and how it still performs in comparison!
i tried gaming on 6ghz 265k like in february, it was very different from 7800x3d which a very fast cpu too
Still a proud owner of 7800X3D and 7900XTX (early adopter), but am happy to see AMD making strides in the right direction. Definitely will skip this gen but boy, for those looking to gather components for a new PC, what a time...
I bet they will keep stacking more levels of progressively slower/bigger/cheaper cache in the future, maybe even some DRAM at the bottom.