Great presentation. Thank you for giving props to the all the support aircraft and personnel, especially the tankers. I was a KC-10 Boom Operator from 1986-1999. I was briefed into the program early on and was a refueler on one of the tankers assigned to the first "fighter drag" to the Gulf region in 1990.
Wow, a trip down memory lane! I'm from Michigan and worked the F-117A from 1990-1997 for the 415th FS / 9th FS. I moved back to Michigan after leaving Holloman AFB in 97'. I was a Weapons systems specialist and later an Engine troop. I did a few rotations to the low observables / MARS flight. Rotations to Khamis and Al Jaber were unique. Hard to believe they've been retired.
WOW.. amazing work to get Shaba back together again. I can say this with 100% accuracy, 817 has NEVER looked that clean. Honestly, I don't think any of the jets were that clean when I was the Crew Chief on during the 8 yrs, 4 months and 28 days that I was assigned to Holloman as an F-117A Crew Chief during my time serving in the Air Force. I will always remember each A/C I was assigned #838 and #813 when I was in the 8th FS, #797, #798, #789, #826 and finally #809 (the final 9th Fighter Squadron flagship!) I have never forgotten the day I launched out then Lt. Col Tatum in #809 as the final four F-117A's left Holloman in Apr 2008.. sad day.. Even if I got to play with a shiny new F-22 afterwards, the F-117A's are still THE #1 Aircraft on my list. Those and the amazing maintainers who shared the honor of crewing the jets along side me.
Greetings, Mr. Smith. I see that You worked 0813. I was wondering if You met COL. Al Whitley? I have his American Flag that he carried in Desert Storm. His Call Sign was "Fog 03" . He bombed Baghdad on 2/16/1991 in 0813.
@@bjjace1 Met him on more than one occasion. If memory serves me correctly his Bandit # is 149 or 150, I am not 100% certain of that, but I do know he was the 1st operational Night Hawk pilot.
@@vitorino773, of course it is advanced. And consider when it was developed. Look at the engineering behind the SR-71 which is almost 20 years older. The design solutions they came up with were absolutely brilliant. Even the way they fused quartz to metal for the cameras sounds like something modern. Now you take something like the F35 and it's just a technological mess. The 117 was so elegant.
Now, I know nobody's going to believe me on here, but I actually lived a couple houses down the street from Thad. Took the same bus to school as his kids from 3rd grade through high school. Trying not to dox the guy or myself, but I took care of his dog Riggs a couple times while his family went places, he helped me push my stalled car out of traffic, lol. Nice guy. I had no idea he was such a big wig until this got recommended to me out of the blue, but it does certainly explain a lot. Just goes to show that everyone's just a normal person at home.
@@bandit528 Hey, the man himself! I'm the oldest Krause kid, if you remember us. Very surreal seeing this video pop up out of nowhere, glad you're doing well.
this guy is a terrible speaker. I can't tell when his introduction begun. He told me he was going to tell me some amazing stories, and talked randomly about his family. This guy needs to go back to speaking school with a beginning a middle and an end
Amazing… I was always curious about the F117 culture and mission… you always hear tomcat guys and F15 guys.. this is really cool 😎 I enjoyed hearing the jets mission set …
I'm sure they did but if you've ever done stuff like this, you know literally everything goes wrong/breaks and wireless mics are notoriously bad. I think they handled it well though, and had back ups like they should.
A big YES. I have yet to go to any public presentation that the poor speaker doesn't have "MIC" or the hand held control of slides just stop working 😊 it happens at every presenter doing a show happen too
I had the pleasure of working on that program at TTR for a frew years. The 1988 anouncement happened when I was there and I finally got to tell my wife where I went every Monday when she'd drop me off at Nellis. Fun to listen to your talk.
Great presentation. I still remember when the F-117 made its only appearance at the Abbotsford International Airshow in 1991 and had armed guards around it the entire time it was on display. Six years later, we had a B-2 make a flypast but it didn't land. Both impressive machines. The B-21 will be equally impressive.
I remember the Thunderbirds airshow at Dobbins AFB and seeing the F117 behind ropes and guarded on each corner MPs/APs with shotguns. I can't recall the exact year.
Awesome presentation and I was so proud to have been associated with this program in 1990. I spent many hours in the cockpit as an egress specialist fixing the ejection seat and canopy and thrusters. The best time was doing EOR at Khamis Mushait with my buddy as these jets returned home from missions. Shaba is a thing that very few know. And the Captain is correct about the TOT’s being how a Bandit ( pilot) became extremely “ unpopular”! Zelko was a Captain and was my favorite Bandit. Great dude and bad ass! Pretty sure he was the pilot who got struck by lightning who we caught at EOR recovery who last half a vertical stab. Loved my time at TTR and the folks I worked with. We did “ own the night”!
The mentioning of the teamwork can't be understated. . . . And they are likely still being flown, sparingly, because they still fit a niche that otherwise cannot be fulfilled with the current tech; or they are validating systems that various sub contractor channels were guaranteed over an extended span of time. I just love that at least a few are still taking to the skies.
All I hear online is that these things were an aerodynamic nightmare and completely turn their noses up to it. However, I talked to a pilot that said they flew like a cadillac drives. It's still fly by wire and corrected by the flight software but it wasn't unpleasant to fly. It's also the only aircraft other than a B-2 that's decently stealthed on the thermal spectrum. The F-22/35 are still easily tracked by heat-seeking missiles.
@@misterhistoryman2214 Against radar, the F-22 and F-35 are considerably stealthier than the F-117, and closer to the B-2 in this respect. They aren't quite as all-in on IR stealth as the F-117 or B-2, but they have a good degree of that, too.
@@amazin7006 The F-22 has a layer or layers in its skin that minimize IR emissivity. If exposed, they would appear shiny. Additionally, its topcoat contains compounds that absorb IR and re-emit the energy in less exploitable wavelengths, such as ones that are preferentially absorbed by atmospheric moisture. And its engines have cooling air injected just before the nozzles to help control the exhaust heat signature. Afterburner messes this up, of course, but since the F-22 can reach Mach 1.83 without afterburner, it doesn't need to use them much except when maneuvering hard. The nozzles are also pretty well hidden from many angles by the tail booms, thanks to their placement and shaping. So yeah, the F-22 is definitely a stealth fighter. The F-35 is just as stealthy against radar, but I'm not sure about its IR stealth in the exhaust area. I'm sure it does something, but as you said, it may not be quite as stealthy as the F-22 in this respect.
The F-117 had decent handling qualities and was even agile to a degree. You could do full rolls and other aerobatic maneuvers with it. It maneuvered like a fighter. That said, it can't exactly "turn and burn" like a full-fledged fighter in a dogfight. It would get smoked by most every other fighter out there. Not that it has any air-to-air capability anyway. In contrast, the F-22 is the most agile fighter in the US inventory, and also easily has the greatest kinematic performance. The F-35 can't match it in every way, but it's no slouch, either, and can hold its own against most any fighter in terms of agility.
Yes, I was about to make the same comment. For the future, the camera must capture the slide presentation so that it helps bring context to the speaker message. It’s standard when recording speeches, if the presentation is not already on “screen-on-screen”. A LOT got lost because the presentation was not on screen.
That, is a Marvel of American engineering. Neat neat aircraft. I remember playing microprose's F-117 stealth fighter on my PC in the early 90's and I thought it was cool then, I think it's even cooler now ❤ thanks for this presentation
Back in the mid 90's I used to sit over by Edwards afb and watch them do touch and goes with this aircraft. It was the most impressive aircraft I have seen move.
In 1986, I drove my 67 Camaro from Tucson to Seattle. Several miles outside of Tonopah, my fanbelt broke. I limped into town and just missed the auto parts store being open. Next door to the parts store was a bar and I thought it unusual for a bar in the middle of nowhere to have a bunch of newer model cars parked outside, including a new Camaro. I went inside the bar, noticed several patrons of military bearing (which again I found odd), explained my predicament, and the owner of the Camaro said I could have his spare fanbelt. I put his spare on in the parking lot, offered to pay for the belt, thanked him, and was on my way. Years later I found out that F-117s were there - it was quite the ah ha moment.
Great presentation. FYI, for future shows it would be very helpful to have the camera on the slides or a split scene so we can see what he's talking about.
Great presentation, it never occurred to me to stealth pilots are the ultimate "trust the team" example because if the team is wrong you won't know until it's too late to do anything about it.
Awesome, I was at Holloman in 1999 too, at the Middle School! lol I was on the track team and we used to run around the roads that would go around the runways. There's a good chance you flew a stinkbug right over me.
Kaiser Electronics developed the head down displays (Multipurpose Display Indicators) and head up display for this aircraft. The in-house development program was labeled as displays for a "Logistics Trainer". The displays were based on similar displays for the F/A-18 of that vintage. We provided a software development system that exploited the smart display architecture of that time. Definitely a privilege to have provided capability for this aircraft.
This just showed up on my YT suggestions tonight. thanks for posting, great video and I enjoy any material on the F-117. The Serbian commander's name was Zoltan Dani, IIRC. Want to hear more great stories!
I worked in the Red Force building at McClellan AFB at the time. I never knew what was going on in the back of the building until 1988. I worked at the Tonopah Range during that period and past the airstrip where the F177's were hidden during the day. As civilians, we had to be off the range before dark. Very interesting ! Thanks for the video.
Perhaps the audio issues were as a result of constructive and destructive interference of the wireless mic signal , brought about by reflections as he paced along the aircraft?
He meant for the era that the stealth fighter was being built 1970's thru the 80's. Things after that were well improved giving us what we have now with stealth technology.
Hands-down one of my favorite planes. Video critique: Should've been filmed with a static shot. Would've been great to see the plane in it's entirety while he was presenting.
Two more F-117 fighters were hit over Yugoslavia but landed on surrounding air ports (one of them in Bosnia). It’s silly to call that crew lucky. A mission was sent to seek them out. That’s when the F-16 that was supposed to expose the ground radar got shot down as well. These guys were good. Considering the equipment they were using and how easy it was to spot them if the radar was left on too long.
Great presentation. Thanks. Really interesting. Cant claim to have been particularly interested in the aircraft up until now but your comments on the technology involved particularly for munitions consent, the novel designs, the hiding of construction by using known parts and in the level of teamwork involved and the crews of people supporting you, briefing you, arming you, providing air cover and opening up airspace for you, and enabling the F117 to be the scalpel it was obviously designed to be was really an insight in to how air operations were conducted for this amazing machine and that is fascinating. Thanks alot. Reckon I might have to read up a bit more on it.
I’ll never forget the time I saw one of these perform a dangerously low swallow flyby adjacent from the powerlines along the road I was driving on near the Lancaster National Soccer Center.
I thought that the camera work was outstanding, EVERY slide was shown. Audio issues? Yes at the beginning but fixed. It's real life everyone, relax. Thank you Air Zoo and all involved, especially the camera man...
hmmm If I had to choose between being a Sheep or a Tinhead... LOL seriously I couldn't pick. I had a bunch of fun being in both.. Hell in the end I even got to be a Bunyap..AKA Screaming Demon with the F-22's One of the funniest things I remember about the move of the maintainer from the Fighter Sqaudrons to AMXS was trying to come up with a new motto for the squadron. My submission(among other peoples) was Once A Knight with a Sheep is never enough!
Saw a F-117 flying this year around spring time down in S SC/GA Savanna. This talk was light and nothing he said wasn't know to even the most casual of F-117 fans. He also had a REAL F-117 behind him and didn't utilize it. A laser pointer and walk around would have been great.
Funny that an entire wing of Stealth Fighters is still active, last seen in the Middle East. Oh yes, and the Weapons Training Ops. I am sure that they are mere bonus Bogies. F-35 has to be able to track and engage the Tech. My Dad told me a story of an event in his Company car, a year before I was born, driving 3 Company Employees to Phili from Hershey, after a International Corporate Meeting. One employee from Germany playing with the visor and the mirror, starting a conversation with an American in the back seat. Questions and stories passing regarding the War. The German had been 13 years old and given a rifle to hold on a surviving US Bomber Crew Member at one event. The man in the back seat was the 19 year old crew member he was told to shoot if he made any moves.
Too bad about all the audio issues. It’d also be good if you could display the slides on the screen at the same time. Won’t cost much, if anything, use open source OBS and capture the output.
What I love so much about the F-117 project was the TEAMWORK " it is outstanding that the Pilots of these invisible beast, can give credit out to even the cooks. All those years I just Laughed to myself when the ( X-File) loud mouths talked about the UFOs that were hidden in Nevada wide open spaces. If you drive up north from Las Vegas you will see with your own EYEs this mass explanation of a great TEST ground for these Airframes. All those people I worked with that believe in hidden little green men. Its so wonderful to hear the real deal guys eho flew this ghost of a airplane. Its amazing the two people one who flew the Airframes and the one who controlled the missile battery get together and be "Frinds" to be able to just listen to there conversation about there own mission impossible. 😊 The "TRUTH" is out there. I personally thank the museum for being able to display this work of art. Its mind blowing that the goto RADAR can now be fooled on what is there in airspace or should say not there. Great presentation
This seems like it would be a great presentation. I only made it 22 minutes before moving on to something else. The audio keeps cuttting out and the camera follows the speaker as he paces back and forth on the stage. Which is fine but he’s also referring to pictures and slides that we don’t get a good view of. I will have to look for another video of this speaker.
Its a entry level light course in stealth. He didn't say anything even a casual F-117 fan didn't know 20 years ago. Far more detailed study level talks out there which imo most want to see. This was a sound only presentation seeing the screens/props were hardly shown. He also had a REAL F-117 behind him he never even took advantage of.
Wow - I am shocked, that a pilot of the F-117A gets the “technicality” of the creation of the program wrong! First of all - the white paper of Ufimtsef doesn’t mention radar - but electromagnetic radiation. If he would have written radar - his white paper would have never been allowed to leave the USSR - would have never ended up in the hands of Skunkworks and DARPA. Second: even the timeline of the casually mentioned “we can make something out of the paper” is totally wrong. The learnings from previous conflicts let the USAF create the project (they asked DARPA which seem to have contracted Skunkworks). However their attempt to use an (early) computer didn’t really worked out, until they found the white paper (with formulas) of Ufimtsef. *This seems very similar of a narrative, but it is definitely paints a whole different picture*!
Right, he seems to buy into the popular myth that the paper was about creating stealth aircraft, but all it really was about is how to calculate the RCS of flat surfaces at various angles, and such. It proved to be useful for developing stealth aircraft, but that's a whole other bigger, much more involved idea.
I got to work the Stinkbug at the Holloman control tower 2001-2004. It was a fun base to work air traffic. The F-117, T-38, German F-4 and Tornado aircraft plus some QF-4 drones.
If you want an idea the logistics involved (and a corollary to current wars - the disastrous war for Russia in Ukraine), you'll get a good sense of what's involved for even just a single bombing run at 57:01.
It is good to point out the complexity and associated cost of the total package to deliver 16 bombs vs using a B2 or B21. Besides the F-117 is rather antiquated by today’s standards and not up to dealing with newer threats. It has been stated that during the Gulf War, the older long wavelength radar on ships could track the F-117s with some success due to the F-117s configuration. So technology has moved on considerably from the early days. Probably very wise to have retired it from active combat duty for the safety of the pilots. Also it was not by accident or pure luck that the F-117 became vulnerable in Bosnia.
I feel like it’s time to reign in all soldiers who are giving public talks about their service and experiences until the war in Europe is concluded for the sake of operational security.
Nothing in the discussed in this presentation has any bearing oncurrent programs in the USAF, or other services for that matter, that have implications on operational security. Especially in how it pertains to what is happening currently. Everthing discussed is and has been public knowledge for many years.
@@That_Stealth_Guy that’s correct. As the lawyers say “out of an abundance of caution” it is best if we just stay tight lipped as possible as the nighthawk has been back in service with legacy hardware that can’t be affected my modern electronics arrays.
@@eprofessio. umm OK, if you think that's the reason I'll let you believe that. My point still stands about what was discussed in this presentation has literally NO bearing on capabilities or tactics that could affect the ongoing conflict. The other point I didn't make to you was that what you are suggesting is a flagrant FU to the first amendment right to freedom of speech. Now if he had discussed something that was potentially compromising or classified, well then that is different and there are policies/laws already in effect that cover those circumstances so no need to worry.. That is exactly why he limited his presentation to already PUBLIC knowledge information, you are assuming he is dummy in my opinion..The man has had so many COUNTLESS security and OPSEC briefings that he is still hearing voices in his head.. Lord knows I always recall them whenever I talk about my experience working on the F-117 program, as well as the Raptor and F-16's I crewed. Personally, Had I been able to attend this presentation I would have loved to seen the slides..
@@That_Stealth_Guy first of all you aren’t letting me think anything. You sound like a foriegn agent who wants our soldiers to divulge all information under a blanket of public knowledge. God bless your little heart. ;)
They are still flying out in Tonapah every night doing aggressor missions vs the F-22 and the F-35. Some of them are in mothballs, wings off, but some number of them have had their toxic coatings removed and are repainted black for static display. I have seen one bare metal example flying as well. So they’re around.
Part replacement issues. A lot of the stuff needed to ‘perfectly’ restore them isn’t being produced as much/at all anymore. While a lot of parts can be sourced because of the wide sourcing of components inside it, much of it can’t be replaced (at least not easily).
Great presentation. However, like almost every other pilot interview, and there are hundreds that I've watched, Mr. Darger does not tell what it's like to fly the F-117. In other words, there is no "in cockpit" presentation. Also, he didn't mention the nickname "Wobbly Goblin". The title states "Flying the Nighthawk" but there is nothing about actually flying it. One time in my life (I'm 85) I read a story in a magazine by a pilot that flew a P-40 in WWII and it was the most fascinating pilot story I ever read because he had the reader in the cockpit with him.
Great presentation. Thank you for giving props to the all the support aircraft and personnel, especially the tankers. I was a KC-10 Boom Operator from 1986-1999. I was briefed into the program early on and was a refueler on one of the tankers assigned to the first "fighter drag" to the Gulf region in 1990.
this is Gold, im very happy its recorded for posteriority
Wow, a trip down memory lane! I'm from Michigan and worked the F-117A from 1990-1997 for the 415th FS / 9th FS. I moved back to Michigan after leaving Holloman AFB in 97'. I was a Weapons systems specialist and later an Engine troop. I did a few rotations to the low observables / MARS flight. Rotations to Khamis and Al Jaber were unique. Hard to believe they've been retired.
"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." I really like that.
WOW.. amazing work to get Shaba back together again. I can say this with 100% accuracy, 817 has NEVER looked that clean. Honestly, I don't think any of the jets were that clean when I was the Crew Chief on during the 8 yrs, 4 months and 28 days that I was assigned to Holloman as an F-117A Crew Chief during my time serving in the Air Force. I will always remember each A/C I was assigned #838 and #813 when I was in the 8th FS, #797, #798, #789, #826 and finally #809 (the final 9th Fighter Squadron flagship!) I have never forgotten the day I launched out then Lt. Col Tatum in #809 as the final four F-117A's left Holloman in Apr 2008.. sad day.. Even if I got to play with a shiny new F-22 afterwards, the F-117A's are still THE #1 Aircraft on my list. Those and the amazing maintainers who shared the honor of crewing the jets along side me.
Greetings, Mr. Smith. I see that You worked 0813. I was wondering if You met COL. Al Whitley? I have his American Flag that he carried in Desert Storm. His Call Sign was "Fog 03" . He bombed Baghdad on 2/16/1991 in 0813.
cmon man...do you really think this is advanced tecnologie?!
its just sand trown at our eyes...
@@bjjace1 Met him on more than one occasion. If memory serves me correctly his Bandit # is 149 or 150, I am not 100% certain of that, but I do know he was the 1st operational Night Hawk pilot.
@@That_Stealth_Guy that is very cool.
@@vitorino773, of course it is advanced. And consider when it was developed. Look at the engineering behind the SR-71 which is almost 20 years older. The design solutions they came up with were absolutely brilliant. Even the way they fused quartz to metal for the cameras sounds like something modern. Now you take something like the F35 and it's just a technological mess. The 117 was so elegant.
Now, I know nobody's going to believe me on here, but I actually lived a couple houses down the street from Thad. Took the same bus to school as his kids from 3rd grade through high school. Trying not to dox the guy or myself, but I took care of his dog Riggs a couple times while his family went places, he helped me push my stalled car out of traffic, lol. Nice guy. I had no idea he was such a big wig until this got recommended to me out of the blue, but it does certainly explain a lot.
Just goes to show that everyone's just a normal person at home.
What in the world? Loved Riggs ...
Don't know who this is but thank you for the extremely kind comments
@@bandit528 Hey, the man himself! I'm the oldest Krause kid, if you remember us.
Very surreal seeing this video pop up out of nowhere, glad you're doing well.
@@Majima_Nowhere The same to you my friend and thank you for your service! Give your parents my best
I am so very happy this is recorded. Would be such a shame to not hear this if you were not there that day of the recording.
this guy is a terrible speaker. I can't tell when his introduction begun. He told me he was going to tell me some amazing stories, and talked randomly about his family. This guy needs to go back to speaking school with a beginning a middle and an end
EXCELLENT presentation, Draft! Greetings from Bandit 580 (9FS 2000-2003) "We own the night!" - Spam
Amazing… I was always curious about the F117 culture and mission… you always hear tomcat guys and F15 guys.. this is really cool 😎 I enjoyed hearing the jets mission set …
Such a great presentation. # 1 rule in prepping for a public speaker - make sure the sound equipment is working, and the batteries fully charged.
I'm sure they did but if you've ever done stuff like this, you know literally everything goes wrong/breaks and wireless mics are notoriously bad. I think they handled it well though, and had back ups like they should.
A big YES. I have yet to go to any public presentation that the poor speaker doesn't have "MIC" or the hand held control of slides just stop working 😊 it happens at every presenter doing a show happen too
Indeed. When those Shure wireless packs’ battteries start dying, it fights to maintain whatever frequency it was assigned to, so it cuts out.
Thank you for this presentation, this guy is great. Wish we could see his slides as he talked.
I had the pleasure of working on that program at TTR for a frew years. The 1988 anouncement happened when I was there and I finally got to tell my wife where I went every Monday when she'd drop me off at Nellis. Fun to listen to your talk.
Great presentation. I still remember when the F-117 made its only appearance at the Abbotsford International Airshow in 1991 and had armed guards around it the entire time it was on display. Six years later, we had a B-2 make a flypast but it didn't land. Both impressive machines. The B-21 will be equally impressive.
I remember the Thunderbirds airshow at Dobbins AFB and seeing the F117 behind ropes and guarded on each corner MPs/APs with shotguns. I can't recall the exact year.
Great presentation.... would have loved to have seen the slides.
What an excellent presentation. Thank you Capt. Thad Darger.
Awesome presentation and I was so proud to have been associated with this program in 1990. I spent many hours in the cockpit as an egress specialist fixing the ejection seat and canopy and thrusters. The best time was doing EOR at Khamis Mushait with my buddy as these jets returned home from missions. Shaba is a thing that very few know. And the Captain is correct about the TOT’s being how a Bandit ( pilot) became extremely “ unpopular”! Zelko was a Captain and was my favorite Bandit. Great dude and bad ass! Pretty sure he was the pilot who got struck by lightning who we caught at EOR recovery who last half a vertical stab. Loved my time at TTR and the folks I worked with. We did “ own the night”!
Presentation! Thank you for posting this!
Thanks to the 1970's computer limitations of the shape calculations it's the most sinister looking plane ever
The mentioning of the teamwork can't be understated. . . . And they are likely still being flown, sparingly, because they still fit a niche that otherwise cannot be fulfilled with the current tech; or they are validating systems that various sub contractor channels were guaranteed over an extended span of time. I just love that at least a few are still taking to the skies.
Amazing how maneuverable and crisp the handling of these jets are. Saw a pilot throw it around at Langley AFB once at an airshow.
All I hear online is that these things were an aerodynamic nightmare and completely turn their noses up to it. However, I talked to a pilot that said they flew like a cadillac drives. It's still fly by wire and corrected by the flight software but it wasn't unpleasant to fly. It's also the only aircraft other than a B-2 that's decently stealthed on the thermal spectrum. The F-22/35 are still easily tracked by heat-seeking missiles.
Yeah i believe that the F35 and F22 also officially aren't stealthfighters but fighters wit some stealthtech
f22 has decent thermal stealth. f35 not so much
@@misterhistoryman2214 Against radar, the F-22 and F-35 are considerably stealthier than the F-117, and closer to the B-2 in this respect. They aren't quite as all-in on IR stealth as the F-117 or B-2, but they have a good degree of that, too.
@@amazin7006 The F-22 has a layer or layers in its skin that minimize IR emissivity. If exposed, they would appear shiny. Additionally, its topcoat contains compounds that absorb IR and re-emit the energy in less exploitable wavelengths, such as ones that are preferentially absorbed by atmospheric moisture. And its engines have cooling air injected just before the nozzles to help control the exhaust heat signature. Afterburner messes this up, of course, but since the F-22 can reach Mach 1.83 without afterburner, it doesn't need to use them much except when maneuvering hard. The nozzles are also pretty well hidden from many angles by the tail booms, thanks to their placement and shaping.
So yeah, the F-22 is definitely a stealth fighter. The F-35 is just as stealthy against radar, but I'm not sure about its IR stealth in the exhaust area. I'm sure it does something, but as you said, it may not be quite as stealthy as the F-22 in this respect.
The F-117 had decent handling qualities and was even agile to a degree. You could do full rolls and other aerobatic maneuvers with it. It maneuvered like a fighter. That said, it can't exactly "turn and burn" like a full-fledged fighter in a dogfight. It would get smoked by most every other fighter out there. Not that it has any air-to-air capability anyway.
In contrast, the F-22 is the most agile fighter in the US inventory, and also easily has the greatest kinematic performance. The F-35 can't match it in every way, but it's no slouch, either, and can hold its own against most any fighter in terms of agility.
Even the powerpoint presentation was stealth!
Yes, I was about to make the same comment. For the future, the camera must capture the slide presentation so that it helps bring context to the speaker message. It’s standard when recording speeches, if the presentation is not already on “screen-on-screen”. A LOT got lost because the presentation was not on screen.
It was awful camera work
Thank you for your service....great video...learned alot about the stealth fighter...
"I'm stealthy." That microphone is probably modulating it's frequency to remain secure in RF, standard procedure.
That, is a Marvel of American engineering. Neat neat aircraft. I remember playing microprose's F-117 stealth fighter on my PC in the early 90's and I thought it was cool then, I think it's even cooler now ❤ thanks for this presentation
This is an amazing treat to watch!!! Thank you for sharing!
Really awesome to stumble upon this. Great presentation.
Golden stuff, thanks for upload
That was a fabulous introduction.😁
Awesome guy, awesome family, awesomely great presentation, but I would have liked to hear the story of how he earned the DFC.
Back in the mid 90's I used to sit over by Edwards afb and watch them do touch and goes with this aircraft. It was the most impressive aircraft I have seen move.
In 1986, I drove my 67 Camaro from Tucson to Seattle. Several miles outside of Tonopah, my fanbelt broke. I limped into town and just missed the auto parts store being open. Next door to the parts store was a bar and I thought it unusual for a bar in the middle of nowhere to have a bunch of newer model cars parked outside, including a new Camaro. I went inside the bar, noticed several patrons of military bearing (which again I found odd), explained my predicament, and the owner of the Camaro said I could have his spare fanbelt. I put his spare on in the parking lot, offered to pay for the belt, thanked him, and was on my way.
Years later I found out that F-117s were there - it was quite the ah ha moment.
Thank you for this amazing upload!
single seat did not know that sir.. amazing thanks for the info what a brilliant life
Great presentation. FYI, for future shows it would be very helpful to have the camera on the slides or a split scene so we can see what he's talking about.
Amazing, amazing work. I was a lowly artillery officer, it was not black, it was not quiet and I’m pretty sure it showed up on radar. Great story!
Great presentation, it never occurred to me to stealth pilots are the ultimate "trust the team" example because if the team is wrong you won't know until it's too late to do anything about it.
I can just imagine the first time you go up against enemy. Thinking "I hope those guys at Lockheed aren't full of shit!"
Amazing video/presentation
Great presentation. Thank you for sharing.
Awesome, I was at Holloman in 1999 too, at the Middle School! lol I was on the track team and we used to run around the roads that would go around the runways. There's a good chance you flew a stinkbug right over me.
If you want to see the slides etc....come to the actual event! 😊
Well said plus, you get to see most, if not all, of them in the video! Great job Air Zoo.
Kaiser Electronics developed the head down displays (Multipurpose Display Indicators) and head up display for this aircraft. The in-house development program was labeled as displays for a "Logistics Trainer". The displays were based on similar displays for the F/A-18 of that vintage. We provided a software development system that exploited the smart display architecture of that time. Definitely a privilege to have provided capability for this aircraft.
This just showed up on my YT suggestions tonight. thanks for posting, great video and I enjoy any material on the F-117. The Serbian commander's name was Zoltan Dani, IIRC. Want to hear more great stories!
I worked in the Red Force building at McClellan AFB at the time. I never knew what was going on in the back of the building until 1988. I worked at the Tonopah Range during that period and past the airstrip where the F177's were hidden during the day. As civilians, we had to be off the range before dark. Very interesting ! Thanks for the video.
Perhaps the audio issues were as a result of constructive and destructive interference of the wireless mic signal , brought about by reflections as he paced along the aircraft?
I have no doubt! That chine / wing edge I’d designed to reflect all RF not just radar.
I'm Bandit 427, never met this guy. Must have been later in the program then myself, or earlier I think now.
I bet you have some great stories Bandit. Would love to buy you a beer!
He seems to imply that round surfaces can't be stealthy, but the B-2, F-22, F-35, and B-21 prove that they can be even stealthier.
He meant for the era that the stealth fighter was being built 1970's thru the 80's. Things after that were well improved giving us what we have now with stealth technology.
Hands-down one of my favorite planes.
Video critique:
Should've been filmed with a static shot. Would've been great to see the plane in it's entirety while he was presenting.
I completely agree.
Two more F-117 fighters were hit over Yugoslavia but landed on surrounding air ports (one of them in Bosnia). It’s silly to call that crew lucky. A mission was sent to seek them out. That’s when the F-16 that was supposed to expose the ground radar got shot down as well. These guys were good. Considering the equipment they were using and how easy it was to spot them if the radar was left on too long.
This is awesome
❤❤❤ VERY INFORMING AND REVEALING, THX FROM KENNY & FELICIA 🌹🌹🌹
It’s a shame the camera work is lacking, other than that very interesting.
This makes me want to join the airforce
B6 senior trend deep black 1980s seems like a lifetime ago I proud of the wobbly goblin go little skunk !
30:17 FACTS BROTHER✔️!!! I'm down for that beer too!!!
Awesome Amazing Incredible! Wish I had become a pilot!
Great presentation. Thanks. Really interesting. Cant claim to have been particularly interested in the aircraft up until now but your comments on the technology involved particularly for munitions consent, the novel designs, the hiding of construction by using known parts and in the level of teamwork involved and the crews of people supporting you, briefing you, arming you, providing air cover and opening up airspace for you, and enabling the F117 to be the scalpel it was obviously designed to be was really an insight in to how air operations were conducted for this amazing machine and that is fascinating. Thanks alot. Reckon I might have to read up a bit more on it.
I’ll never forget the time I saw one of these perform a dangerously low swallow flyby adjacent from the powerlines along the road I was driving on near the Lancaster National Soccer Center.
great stuff. Thank you!
Great Presentation 👍 “We never forget who we’re working for” 😉
I thought that the camera work was outstanding, EVERY slide was shown. Audio issues? Yes at the beginning but fixed. It's real life everyone, relax. Thank you Air Zoo and all involved, especially the camera man...
Thank you!
I read this video title as being with pilot 'Chad Danger' at first...
Fascinating
I left the program in 1997. Iron Knights, which were better than the Black Sheep. 😁.
hmmm If I had to choose between being a Sheep or a Tinhead... LOL seriously I couldn't pick. I had a bunch of fun being in both.. Hell in the end I even got to be a Bunyap..AKA Screaming Demon with the F-22's
One of the funniest things I remember about the move of the maintainer from the Fighter Sqaudrons to AMXS was trying to come up with a new motto for the squadron. My submission(among other peoples) was Once A Knight with a Sheep is never enough!
Saw a F-117 flying this year around spring time down in S SC/GA Savanna.
This talk was light and nothing he said wasn't know to even the most casual of F-117 fans.
He also had a REAL F-117 behind him and didn't utilize it. A laser pointer and walk around would have been great.
Absolutely amazing
the story of the "go pills" just got me so hard 😂😂😂😂
Funny that an entire wing of Stealth Fighters is still active, last seen in the Middle East. Oh yes, and the Weapons Training Ops. I am sure that they are mere bonus Bogies. F-35 has to be able to track and engage the Tech.
My Dad told me a story of an event in his Company car, a year before I was born, driving 3 Company Employees to Phili from Hershey, after a International Corporate Meeting. One employee from Germany playing with the visor and the mirror, starting a conversation with an American in the back seat.
Questions and stories passing regarding the War.
The German had been 13 years old and given a rifle to hold on a surviving US Bomber Crew Member at one event. The man in the back seat was the 19 year old crew member he was told to shoot if he made any moves.
Rest in peace major general Kenneth E Staten, you were sure right uncle ken!
Lost a lot of good pilots at Tonapagh a few years back. Hopefully someone has the balls to tell the story someday.
Too bad about all the audio issues. It’d also be good if you could display the slides on the screen at the same time. Won’t cost much, if anything, use open source OBS and capture the output.
The hopeless diamond!
Wish they would have shown more of the slides to coincide with presentation.
Great presentation, but would love to actually see the slides he was discussing
really cool talk
can you please show the cockpit?
What I love so much about the F-117 project was the TEAMWORK " it is outstanding that the Pilots of these invisible beast, can give credit out to even the cooks. All those years I just Laughed to myself when the ( X-File) loud mouths talked about the UFOs that were hidden in Nevada wide open spaces. If you drive up north from Las Vegas you will see with your own EYEs this mass explanation of a great TEST ground for these Airframes. All those people I worked with that believe in hidden little green men. Its so wonderful to hear the real deal guys eho flew this ghost of a airplane. Its amazing the two people one who flew the Airframes and the one who controlled the missile battery get together and be "Frinds" to be able to just listen to there conversation about there own mission impossible. 😊 The "TRUTH" is out there. I personally thank the museum for being able to display this work of art. Its mind blowing that the goto RADAR can now be fooled on what is there in airspace or should say not there. Great presentation
This seems like it would be a great presentation. I only made it 22 minutes before moving on to something else. The audio keeps cuttting out and the camera follows the speaker as he paces back and forth on the stage. Which is fine but he’s also referring to pictures and slides that we don’t get a good view of. I will have to look for another video of this speaker.
Its a entry level light course in stealth. He didn't say anything even a casual F-117 fan didn't know 20 years ago.
Far more detailed study level talks out there which imo most want to see. This was a sound only presentation seeing the screens/props were hardly shown. He also had a REAL F-117 behind him he never even took advantage of.
@@JIMJAMSC He's a pilot not an engineer. The point was to give his perspective and anecdotes
amazing!!!
Very cool.
This F117 was the sortest serving plane ever. Taxpayers never complained. :D
Wow - I am shocked, that a pilot of the F-117A gets the “technicality” of the creation of the program wrong!
First of all - the white paper of Ufimtsef doesn’t mention radar - but electromagnetic radiation.
If he would have written radar - his white paper would have never been allowed to leave the USSR - would have never ended up in the hands of Skunkworks and DARPA.
Second: even the timeline of the casually mentioned “we can make something out of the paper” is totally wrong. The learnings from previous conflicts let the USAF create the project (they asked DARPA which seem to have contracted Skunkworks). However their attempt to use an (early) computer didn’t really worked out, until they found the white paper (with formulas) of Ufimtsef.
*This seems very similar of a narrative, but it is definitely paints a whole different picture*!
Right, he seems to buy into the popular myth that the paper was about creating stealth aircraft, but all it really was about is how to calculate the RCS of flat surfaces at various angles, and such. It proved to be useful for developing stealth aircraft, but that's a whole other bigger, much more involved idea.
I thought the plane was detected through anomalies in the service cell tower coverage network.
Captain Thad
compared with hidden tecnologie that is hidden from us thats like comparing a kite with a bird.
The camera man should show the screens a bit more, when Capt. Thad Darger is talking about stuff on them and pointing at them.
The A-10 has to be among the stealthiest when it comes to sound. Until its gun fires.
Would have been nice if the cameraman would show the slides as the presentation is talking about it. 🧐
I got to work the Stinkbug at the Holloman control tower 2001-2004. It was a fun base to work air traffic. The F-117, T-38, German F-4 and Tornado aircraft plus some QF-4 drones.
If you want an idea the logistics involved (and a corollary to current wars - the disastrous war for Russia in Ukraine), you'll get a good sense of what's involved for even just a single bombing run at 57:01.
It is good to point out the complexity and associated cost of the total package to deliver 16 bombs vs using a B2 or B21. Besides the F-117 is rather antiquated by today’s standards and not up to dealing with newer threats. It has been stated that during the Gulf War, the older long wavelength radar on ships could track the F-117s with some success due to the F-117s configuration. So technology has moved on considerably from the early days. Probably very wise to have retired it from active combat duty for the safety of the pilots. Also it was not by accident or pure luck that the F-117 became vulnerable in Bosnia.
I wish they had shown the pictures more. They didn't bother showing A LOT of relevant pics
The audio is like a CIA redected document. The best stuff totally cut out. lol.
"Of course, you'll be paying ME a speakers fee and not the rest of the "TEAM" and maintainers but anywho....
You can build a Stealthfighter, but you cant get the sound to work...
Funny, I've never actually thought of the pilot as being part of the airplane. Would have like to have heard from the engineers.
great presentation almost ruined by the camera constantly moving, yet missing so many of the slides.
I feel like it’s time to reign in all soldiers who are giving public talks about their service and experiences until the war in Europe is concluded for the sake of operational security.
Nothing in the discussed in this presentation has any bearing oncurrent programs in the USAF, or other services for that matter, that have implications on operational security. Especially in how it pertains to what is happening currently. Everthing discussed is and has been public knowledge for many years.
@@That_Stealth_Guy that’s correct. As the lawyers say “out of an abundance of caution” it is best if we just stay tight lipped as possible as the nighthawk has been back in service with legacy hardware that can’t be affected my modern electronics arrays.
@@eprofessio. umm OK, if you think that's the reason I'll let you believe that. My point still stands about what was discussed in this presentation has literally NO bearing on capabilities or tactics that could affect the ongoing conflict. The other point I didn't make to you was that what you are suggesting is a flagrant FU to the first amendment right to freedom of speech. Now if he had discussed something that was potentially compromising or classified, well then that is different and there are policies/laws already in effect that cover those circumstances so no need to worry.. That is exactly why he limited his presentation to already PUBLIC knowledge information, you are assuming he is dummy in my opinion..The man has had so many COUNTLESS security and OPSEC briefings that he is still hearing voices in his head.. Lord knows I always recall them whenever I talk about my experience working on the F-117 program, as well as the Raptor and F-16's I crewed.
Personally, Had I been able to attend this presentation I would have loved to seen the slides..
@@That_Stealth_Guy first of all you aren’t letting me think anything. You sound like a foriegn agent who wants our soldiers to divulge all information under a blanket of public knowledge. God bless your little heart. ;)
@@eprofessio A foreign agent ????? put your tin foil hat back on. Did you know there are little green men at Holloman !!!!
Why are they not still in the active inventory? They cost a ton and still are very usable!
It is still active. Flying red air and also as test bed for the new reflective coating they are testing.
They are still flying out in Tonapah every night doing aggressor missions vs the F-22 and the F-35. Some of them are in mothballs, wings off, but some number of them have had their toxic coatings removed and are repainted black for static display. I have seen one bare metal example flying as well. So they’re around.
Part replacement issues. A lot of the stuff needed to ‘perfectly’ restore them isn’t being produced as much/at all anymore. While a lot of parts can be sourced because of the wide sourcing of components inside it, much of it can’t be replaced (at least not easily).
It costs more to keep them well maintained. They are obsolete.
Amazing for laser guidance, but why not just use f35, drones, or b2? No point.
Great presentation. However, like almost every other pilot interview, and there are hundreds that I've watched, Mr. Darger does not tell what it's like to fly the F-117. In other words, there is no "in cockpit" presentation. Also, he didn't mention the nickname "Wobbly Goblin". The title states "Flying the Nighthawk" but there is nothing about actually flying it. One time in my life (I'm 85) I read a story in a magazine by a pilot that flew a P-40 in WWII and it was the most fascinating pilot story I ever read because he had the reader in the cockpit with him.
Interesting that missiles and bombs are not guided all the way.