Review of Death Podcast #22 - Doctor Who: Heaven Sent/Hell Bent Review
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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Billy and Matt do a deep dive into the Series 9 two-part finale, discussing the hugely popular Heaven Sent and the incredibly divisive Hell Bent. Will Billy finally see some good in that last episode? Probably not. Does anyone really care about the Hybrid? Definitely not. Will the boys go off on a tangent about James Bond? Most certainly.
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
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Idea for a future video: Spearhead From Space vs Rose. Both first stories for a new Doctor, and both featuring the Autons. I know which one gets my vote 😊
Great idea!
I think “the hybrid” was intended to be a commentary on the mystery box as a concept. It sort of poking fun out of how series long mystery box plot were becoming so common in moffats doctor who. Almost like an intentional parody of mystery boxes.
I think moffat even said himself at one point that his intention with the hybrid was to kinda mess with people.
Then why bother? Why not just focus on giving us good stories? This obsession with arcs, once such a good device, have become a millstone around the series' neck. You don't feckin' need 'em
@@AnthonyP73 I mean I think its a good story so I’m glad he bothered. But suit yourself if you don’t
Honestly, Colin's the only other doctor I can picture doing Heaven Sent as good as Capaldi.
Absolutely!
"Who the fuck are you to give The Doctor advice?” Well, to me, the fact is that Clara has impacted upon all the Doctors in the present timestream - the GI needed interference and she did that, again and again. Ultimately, Clara has become a keystone in Doctor lore, and you don’t want to accept that. They’re those who would like to think that Gallifreyans are descended from humans, and so Clara’s significance makes kind of sense. She became something that was dangerous for those around her - every bit as damaging as The Doctor can be, and her time was up.
I agree that Moffat seems unable to leave something alone - false endings cease to have any value if resurrection is coming. To be fair RTD is prone to a bit of that too, and indeed I recall early on, him saying something about not killing off the ones we love. Real drama follows real jeopardy. Writers need to toughen up.
So the slight alteration to a character's motivation is worse than what we thought was the first Dr being no such thing. The fact that Who ended up in the toilet after this and not this story suggests that many agree. The fact Hartnell is still referred to as the first Dr in this conversation also speaks volumes
Can you both please do a video just talking about Bond? I’d love to hear more of your thoughts and opinions on the franchise.
So unremarkable ( to me ) was the season arc of hybrid/me business was I'd completely forgotten it's inclusion in the season...as ever a pleasure 🙏 ☺
The Gallifrey IV box set puts forward the idea that the Lord President ordered a burn edict for the Doctor, so there is some reason for that.
burn edict? sounds kinda from soft title:)
I’ve thought that Jenna Coleman would have made a great Doctor, ever since my last big New Who rewatch and seeing her Doctor-y speech in The Girl Who Died on the alien spaceship
I think Gallifrey was sporadic enough in the 80s. It only appeared three times if I recall.
I think you're right: Arc of Infinity, The Five Doctors and Trial of a Time Lord.
sorry if you already have, but you need to talk more about your hatred for The Husbands of River Song. Or don't. It's legitimately one of my favourite ever episodes. It's fun!
Final comment but season 18 is massively underrated. I’d say The Leisure hive is the only only truly bad story and even that story has some ambitious direction.
@@HudsonMedia Yeah if you really look at Season 18 it has some great directing. I just think it was too ambitious for the BBC. Doctor Who, especially back then. was under harsh time constraints. I believe the director for Warriors gate was either fired or reprimanded for being too ambitious.
I agree with most of your commentary on this story, aside from the bits about Clara’s final message to the Doctor “Run you clever boy, and be the Doctor.” She just witnessed what the Doctor was capable of if he was mad and hell-bent (ha) on saving her: he tortured himself and betrayed his m.o., redoing a loop for millions of years instead of living and moving on with his life. She’s telling him to let go and do what he does best: be himself, be a Doctor, explore, save people! Clearly, he needed that because she told him right before she died in Face the Raven to do the same, but he didn’t listen. As for why the Doctor and Clara have a close relationship, I go back to series 7B and the 50th anniversary. She sacrificed himself for the Doctor to fix his timestream and defeat the Great Intelligence. Her intervention also caused the Doctor(s) to save Gallifrey. Whether we like Clara’s intervention in these events or not, those are both MAJOR events from this Doctor’s perspective…so for those reasons alone, I get why they care deeply about each other and why their relationship is a deep, platonic love. Also, 12 constantly had to question whether he was a good man early on with Clara. Despite his hard exterior, though, Clara stuck with him, even when she was scared (see Deep Breath). Gradually, she even came to empathize with him and his motivations as she became more Doctor-y. I don’t think many other companions have done this many things for the Doctor over such a long period of time and multiple regenerations. Some certainly come close, but Clara was there-by total happenstance-during some extremely notable moments. While 4 or 10 or 11 or even 13 may not have had as close of a relationship with Clara if they had had similar adventures with her, 12 did. His personality and the events he lived led to their deep relationship. They were perfect for each other at the moments in time their lives intersected. This is why I find comparisons between the relationship the Doctor had with Clara and the relationship they had with other companions to be strange. They don’t all need to be on equal footing - just look at Rose’s relationship with 10 vs. Martha’s relationship with 10. Or Ian/Barbara’s relationship with 1 vs. Dodo’s relationship with 1. Some companions do more for the Doctor; some Doctors do more for certain companions. Was it over-the-top how Moffat made Clara do this much for the Doctor? Perhaps. But that she did…and the characters’ relationship developed accordingly.
Totally agree with you. 👍
It's true that Heaven Sent could only have been done by Capaldi 😎, and I think it could only have been Clara that the Doctor spent all those 4 ½ billion years grieving for. I don't see him doing it for Rose, Martha, Donna or Amy. Maybe only for River. Heaven Sent was a perfect story, and a perfect episode. Hell Bent has its flaws, they could have focused more on the conflict between the Doctor and the Timelords, but I still like it. Capaldi was the best, and 12 and Clara were my favorite Doctor/ Companion duo ever. Hope they both come back somehow one day.
Oh good lord, I’m preparing my feelings for an attack
Doctor Who and Bond in one video. I'm so happy.
The sonic at the end was cgi added in, they didn’t have the prop at the time of shooting
Capaldi's intro theme should always have been the rock intro from before the flood
i personally think the hybrid being the doctor and clara works on a thematic level for these 3 stories.
58:25 _"...all incidental music in Doctor Who is just a soundtrack in the Doctor's head"_ - Don't see why not, after RTD's idea of turning the rhythm of the Doctor Who theme into a representation of Time Lord heartbeats ;)
Tbf this is all incredibly meaningless stuff but for what it's worth the heartbeats are just an after the fact reference, whereas "the music is just in his head" is right next to "Doctors 1 and 2 were colour blind" with just being too silly too over the top and sounding like it's trying to be clever/funny.
how about it’s a low level cosmic wave that a time lord person translated while making a tardis
So much mic static at the start...
I don’t actually mind the idea that the doctor left Gallifrey for reasons more than he was just bored. I think there should be a sense of darkness with the character that the idea of him potentially leaving because of what the time lords are going to become, but at the same time I think the key is not confirming any of them as the sole reason. I like moffats intent with teasing more reasons and he ga e a wonderful quote in an interview where he said it’s relatable and if you ask any person what is the reason they do their dream job or love the stuff they do then there are different reasons depending on when they ask them. As an idea I think that is terrific but in execution it was messy
Just saying Oh I was bored so I stole a Tardis and left, it's a bit like getting fired and saying Oh I didn't like the job didn't get along with my boss so I left
Surprised no discussion of Moffat flirting with half-human. Would like your thoughts, lads!
Would love to see what you think of asylum of the Daleks..painful to me
Will you be reviewing DOCTOR WHO REDACTED on bbc sounds? Like a double episode reviewing legend of the sea devils and episode 1 of redacted
you guys should do Curse of Fenric vs The god complex. TGC is clearly inspired by COF
I dint care what moffatt says... the hybrid are the cybermasters... or the master with the cyber masters... and any argument that that isn't what the showrunner was going for... we could say the same about the use of the morbius drs in the timeless child... or gallifrey not actually being destroyed... or hartnell not being the first dr... if the writers want to change canon or tie things together they can... and have done so before
Face the raven plot hole.
Me can't die…as in Ashildr…
Chronolock can be transferred as long as the other person is willing. Sooo, just transfer it from Clara to Me and you can argue it can be only transferred once, but that wasn't explained so therefore it is possible :)dieasdieas
She can die though so that’s not an error
@@christopherjohnston3569 me cannot die…as in Ashildr…
@@pete2097 Yes she can. She can still be killed. It’s not like Jack
@@christopherjohnston3569 from the wiki….he (the doctor) implants Ashildr with Mire medical technology, bringing her back to life and making her functionally immortal
Argue with wiki not me
@@pete2097 yes she is immortal as in she cannot die naturally and will keep going on. But the doctor legit states she can be killed. You’re the one that criticised a false flaw so it’s you that I have to convince
Modern Doctor Who companions have always been a mixed bag for me. Martha, Jack, Donna, Bill and Nardole I like. Rose in series 1 but not series 2. River in her first appearance but I can’t stand her afterwards. Amy is fine but her relationship with Rory is awful. Clara is still my least favourite companion. Graham, Ryan and Yaz have their moments but as a whole there not that interesting.
The fortnite thing was in the games creative mode where you can build stuff
From ROD to ROB (Review of Bond)
I genuinely didn't know bond dies lmao I haven't seen it yet
Couldn't agree more about Billy's thoughts on this VS. the Timeless Child.
The Doctor revealing he ran away from Gallifrey because he was scared of the legend of the hybrid is way less interesting that ends up making The Doctor look like a complete wimp and kind of negates the quite nice message of him wanting to go out into the universe and explore it and help out because he doesn't want to stay put in one place and one time. And it's not helped by how vague the resolution of the Hybrid actually ended up being.
Meanwhile, the Timeless Child, while you can argue about the contradictions on how long The Doctor's lived, but it's a more interesting idea to throw this twist at her now, not realising that this portion of her life was kept from her. It doesn't retroactively change her overall character (if anything, it still reinforces her love of exploration with the Tecteun backstory) but presents her with something to deal with now.
Obviously neither are great premises IMO but the Hybrid is WAY worse than the Timeless Child IMO
Husbands of river song 💖💖💖💖💖
I always thought the doctor was the hybrid because he is half war doctor and half the doctor....I dunno...stupid arc
Moffat deserves credit for casting Peter in the first instance, but for me he was the wasted Doctor. It just doesn't feel like Capaldi was given enough good stories and good moments. Unlike Matt Smith who was also underserved but he got enough good moments to leave a favourable overall impression of his tenure.
Edit: oh, you've discussed No Time to Die. Nah, left me cold. A disappointing ending to a good overall tenure.
I found Jodie's opening credits disturbing, I fast forwarded them, as it looked like diseased and it made my screen crawl watching it.
I question peoples sanity who like Hell bent.
I'd better check myself into the nearest asylum, then ;)
@@ftumschk You’ll be inmates with people who enjoy Time-flight lol
@@highvoltage7797 I haven't sunk that low just yet :)
@@highvoltage7797 I thought time flight was alright… Okay I’m ready to commit myself now
Most people who don't like it are either those who don't understand why it happened (and think it came almost completely out of nowhere), hate Clara or were setting their expectations far too high and got massively disappointed because they weren't met.