Home Defense: Buckshot vs. Birdshot
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- For home defense options, what's more effective? Buckshot or birdshot? Roy Huntington, editor of American Handgunner, takes on this question after field testing 00 buck and #8 birdshot out of a Remington 870 at a close-range target.
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3haq5BFh7qs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
![More Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Jf4i8gRTsJs/mqdefault.jpg)
lol he said"in these crazy times" in 2014
who's watching in 2020
Loool
aye, 2020 is absolutely insane.
You could say in these crazy times and be right 90% or the time. 2001 crazy times, 1981 crazy times, 1961 crazy times 1941 crazy times, 1921 crazy times ,1901 crazy times
FUCKING BUBONIC PLAGUE IS COMING BACK
@@creepy_assassin6234 2013: tehse crazy times
2020: coronavirus causes thousands of riots
6 1/2 years later we are really living in the crazy times. Thanks for the video.
Scott C
Naw, the really crazy times are yet to come.
@@edwardsouth1711 I 100% agree. That's why we are a gettin' ready.
12 gauge ammo is hard to come by
You know it. I came across this video looking for videos on good home defense shells.
Real talk
Intelligent, well thought out presentation with no Rambo BS. Thank you.
As a surgical nurse this brings up a lot of memories and emotions of being called in for gun shot trauma. Anyway you slice it a shotgun wound is hard to fix. Birdshot to the face was less lethal than a chest shot. And a person on drugs such as angel dust can keep coming even with a head shot. Be resolute in pulling the trigger
Exactly!
Being on drugs or not being on drugs, when shot within the perimeter of 10 yards, the attacker will be downed by that birdshot payload, and his face will be NO MORE - eyeless, ear-less and nose-less, bleeding like a slaughtered pig...
How would person on drug do when covered with pepper spray? Watch how an officer handled drug addict trying to attack him. Pepper spray ended the fight without officer firing a single shot.
@@DrAgan_tortojed i guess you know this as fact or from video games?
@@BeeRumblin13 Fact. Consider this: I shot a 12 gauge, birdshot (34 grams load consisting of 110 lead pellets with diameter of 3.5 millimeter) from a smooth bore shotgun, half-choke barrel, at 1 inch thick plywood, from about 10 yards. More than half of the pellets were "grouped" within a 10 inch wide circle. About 40 pellets pierced through that plywood and a half of these managed to brake into the plastic bottles (2-litter Coca Cola) filled with water and placed behind the plywood. Even the plastic wad from that cartridge itself penetrated to the plywood so deep that it almost got through... Imagine what would've happened to any human face/head/throat when hit with such a load...
"In these crazy times"... he had no idea.
this is a good video ! i am a shot gunner I LIKE EM ! i don't care which round you put in a 12 gauge, from a # 8 to a slug. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON THE RECEIVING END OF IT.
No doubt i rather be shot by a glock than a shotgun
my brother shot me in the back when I was 10 years old. By accident of course but I still feel it.
Sorry, Im the thumbs down, more bb's, more fun for the Doc.
Anything 12 gauge is gonna leave a mark.
Got a judge 410 Winchester self defense and 00 buck! Your choice!
My kid's rooms are both on the other end of the house. If an intruder came in through the front door or back door I would most likely have to encounter him between myself and my kid's rooms. My shotgun is loaded with 1 1/4oz loads of #4 birdshot with no choke. Thanks for the vid. I was still on the fence about my decision but this confirmed it. I'd rather a slight risk of being shot by an intruder after he takes a load of birdshot to the chest than risk hitting my own kids in the exchange.
JLUDE01
This comment changed my mind. Thanks.
#4 bird shot has 50% more penetration than #8 birdshot. #4 would be my minimum pellet size for humans.
LOL! I doubt if anybody getting "a load of birdshot to the chest" in an average house is going to be all that hell-bent concerned on returning fire. They've got bigger problems to think about at that moment.
No,mate,please don’t,you use a shotgun because of the 1 shot drop capabilities,use buckshot
When you said crazy times, thought it was 2020 video. Great info in a well put video!
EXCELLENT video!!
Very well done.
I. Changing the first 2 rounds to birdshot.
Thank you!!!
When this video was made, we had faith that our police and elected officials had our backs. Now it would appear that Home Defense is up to the home owners themselves. We're on our own.
Gun owners have been saying that for years and now you've come to the realization.
YES Yard Dog, we are most definitely on our own.
Hairy Legs lmao it ain’t Joe’s till January baby this lawlessness is all trumpos
Sadly the only real change has been people walking up to the truth
did u ever think you ever say this? scary ha?
Thank you sir,, you made it so simple and clear,, also I like the way you keep the family safety first!!! That's what home defense is all about!! Stop the attacker and keep the family safe,, not on pulling the attackers guts out and penetrating your little boys wall and hurting him,, thank you for your knowledge,, God bless you sir!!🇺🇸
I just hope we're not saying the same thing about "these crazy times" another seven years from now.
Yep! Weekend of Aug 16, 2021. The beginning of the downfall of #dementiapatient44ThreePointO
Yep. The Bolshevik take over is on the home stretch. Prepare and God bless.
This was great Roy, thanks. Got Remington as a gift-1st gun. Excited and nervous.
Just got my first shotgun a few days ago, ata etro. We got birdshot and I'm very glad we did. Thanks for the demonstration.
If it were me and looking at "birdshot", I would prefer something in the 4,5 or 6 shot.
These are typically used for pheasants and in early years before steel shot, ducks.
Offers larger pellet size to penetrate heavier clothing.
I personally....#4 buck.
Can reload my own with home cast #4 buck molds.
Simple yet incredibly effective video that surmises what is effective for what situation VIA short video
2013: Buckshot or birdshot
2020: Bidet or toilet paper
2020 updated: Coronavirus or Wuhan Flu
😂😂😂👏👏👏👍👍👍
2020 updated 02: Rioting mask wearing toilet paper hoarders or government snitches.
Bird shot and buck shot lives matter
@@Brandon-nz7pd 2021 update delta virant or Taliban talking over Afghanistan 😭
This was a very good video and answered my questions about what I should be using in my weapon. I had questioned the effectiveness of birdshot thinking that buckshot would be the best way to go, however, after seeing the video I am fine with the birdshot I have. Thank you.
I don't think an intruder is picky as to buckshot or birdshot. Each time you rack the slide for the follow-up shots, he's not sure if it's lights-out.
When you're right..
Roy great video. Great explanation. No fillers. Right to the point. Excellent presentatio you are a natursl on camera.
Excellent and timely advice. Most residents wouldn't have a clue!
On the home invasion point, as a 24 year veteran cop, I have to say the number of thugs who might break in is something you can't count on. Most night burglaries are one-man jobs, based on my own experience investigating them. Some daytime invasions are multiple criminals, but then again, some are single assailants. It's nice to setup choke points and back-stops and such, but the reality of a fight is it rarely goes as planned.
Take one down, the rest hesitates, but can continue. Take 2 or 3 more, they'd disapear.
@@tomasnokechtesledger1786 No one hesitates after a shotgun has gone off, let alone, someone just getting blasted! The only one sticking around, might be in shock!
all more reason to bring enough gun to eliminate the threat as fast as possible before you get shot or a blade in your chest.
Piss on using birdshot! If the burglar lives after you shoot him, he will sue you for everything you own! Use the buckshot, something that gets the job done right!
In my 40 years as a cop, simply racking a round into the chamber of ur shotgun as loudly as possible will cause most crooks to soil themselves and leave peacefully. Best weapon for home defense ever.
I would like to thank you for your service. I talk about the 4 general types of a home invasion and have studied the anatomy of the home invasion not related to drugs for the past 6 years. When i talk about choke points the most common comeback is that plans go out the window during a fluid event. This comment has always confused me because the opposite is not having a plan. Work your plan and change when warranted.
Yes I agree, whatever plan you have for whatever situation, always try to imagine every contingency and do your best to plan for it.
Your visual aid and presentation was, OUTSTANDING! Thank you for posting this.
Thank you very much sir. I got four kids, a wife, and a mother in law in the house, and this subject has been on my mind
“After that the guns Jamaican. Buckshot, buckshot, buckshot.” -Dave Chapelle
From 93-95, i worked in a large gun shop. Looking at a shotshell table, i came up with the idea for a 12 ga hone defense load, with 1.5 oz of #2shot. That would be approx 135 .15 cal pellets. At close range, a dense pattern would be effective, and the overpenetration concern would be reduced. Apparently someone at Federal was thinking similarly, because months later they came out with a 1.25 oz load in their home defense line (no doubt to keep the recoil down a bit). From what i see, #4 buck is a good option. It penetrates a bit less, u get fairly good patterns, and 3x as many pellets (27) as a standard 00 load. Many LE agencies use it, incl LAPD and LASO, and they do not complain of a lack of stopping power. Being heavily urbanized, they have legit concerns about overpenetration. Another good option is Federal's "tactical" #1 buck, 15 pellet load with the Flitecontrol wad. It throws very tight patterns (less worry about stray pellets), and the pellets are only slightly smaller than 00, about .30 cal. I guess they stack more efficiently in a shell, with less wasted space. At my urhing a few years ago, the agency i used to work for switched to the 00 version, and patterns tightened noticeably from open bored guns. I am a long time AHG reader. I like Roy and his crew a lot, and i respect his opinion. Also, a bit of choke helps. The IC choke tube for my 20" 870 gives good buck patterns out to 25 yds or better, and great accuracy with Foster style slugs (and rifle sights). Just thought i would share some info based on my experiences. Hope it helps. STAY SAFE!!
Hey, 6 years after your comment. I went from #4 high velocity steel to 'T shot' which is 20 caliber pellets, compare that with your 15 cal #2 or 24 cal #4 buckshot. I don't have any shots beyond 20 feet in my home defense situation, so it's coming in fast, tight, and less likely to over-pen or kill anything through a layer of drywall.
@@Klemeq yeah, BB and T are viable options as well. Steel is an interesting idea. It does not deform, so the shot stays round and theoretically the pattern is better. At 20' it is probably academic though
@@troy9477 Check out this video. I think it shows even #8 birdshot can be effective. ua-cam.com/video/97sjv11yesc/v-deo.html Roy
@@fmgpubs Thanks Roy. That was very interesting. Choke makes a difference. So foes distance, of course. But u would likely very seldom have a 20' shot in a home defense scenario, unless u live in princely splendor. My gut feeling is that a birdshot pattern needs to be dense to be effective, i e. close range. As the pattern spreads, the larger pellets start to make a difference in penetration. This seems to be borne out by various gel tests. Good to know that #8 or #4 (and assumedly #6) can be effective in a pinch. Hope you and yours are healthy and well in MO
@@troy9477 All still good here Troy! I think with most sporting shotguns a shot pattern at ten or 20 feet is essentially one small column of shot, making what used to be called a “Rathole” wound. Roy
I'm betting most over-the-counter defensive shotguns today may have an improved cylinder perhaps? And, indeed, through any sporting shotgun with some barrel length and choke, most birdshot loads would be covered by your hand at 5 to ten yards. Which means, however, you'd need to aim carefully. I'm thinking the spread of our test sample may make better sense in the home.
Thanks for your comments,
Roy Huntington
Shotgun pellets spread roughly 1" per yard traveled downrange.
Up here in Canada we have very restricted laws, and no stand your ground laws. Regardless, Shotguns are not as restricted as hand guns and even some rifles. Keep fighting for your gun rights down south in the US, your govenment will try to take them away, my government is always regulating. Regardless of no stand your ground laws in Canada, if I find someone in my house I will defend myself and my family. Bird shot is my preference as I am in a residential neighborhood with 2 other people in the house. Regardless of the load, a 12gauge shotgun is a deterent for anyone in their right state of mind.
Spencer Smith I also live in Canada in the GTA. The laws regarding guns for self defense are strict, it basically states that under no circumstances are you allowed to use a gun for self defense. So sadly you should have a baseball bat under your bed if a break in were to occur
I feel your pain bro.The first thing after becoming a PR in Canada was to get PAL license and now I have three firearms and will have more. I
I am originally from China. You know how ridiculous the country is ? A teenager ordered a dozen of airsoft guns from Taiwan and the kid is sentenced a life imprisonment. And high ranking officals's relative can abuse their firearms and walk away free! You want that to happen to your country? I am telling you Americans, NEVER EVER let your government to take your gun away, i see there is a lot of concession made already.
Long live 2nd amendment and USA!
We have a castle law here in Mississippi. That means if anyone try's to do you harm on or in your property even a car you have the right to defend your self and property! In other words kill them if need be. I would still load a shot gun with bird shot to get the job done. It will blow through a metal door just like a slug at 2 ft. if need be. Had to add this. If you have anyone ell's in the home or neighbors close by you better think about it or you could go up for involuntary manslaughter. Something like that goes down and it is very stressful and you have to act fast. A little for thought goes a long way!
I don't know how you feel because I live in one of the most gun wielding states in the country. As much as guns would be nice as a right for all countries. You can improvise, you don't need a gun to stop an attacker as nice as it would be. I know people in the UK that use fully auto paintball guns for home intruders. One time it was caught on camera, a guy tried to break into someones house and the unloaded a paintball gun on the intruder. I can tell you, paint balls hurt like a b*tch. They leave some nasty welts and can break skin, especially on fully auto. I saw this guy hit with a fully auto paintball gun and he was welted and bleeding all over the place. You can also buy rubber "trainer" paintballs...that's the code word "trainer". The rubber paintballs are like rubber bullets. And no one dies, you nor the intruder. Trust me, when you shoot someone in self defense, even in the U.S, you could spend years trying to prove you were in the right. Now in most cases people call the cops right away, wait for them, explain the situation, let them investigate, and they're good, few months of investigation and they're okay. But still. A pain in the ass. Paintball gun, fully auto, rubber "trainer" rounds and your intruder will be sore all over the place no matter how big they are. It'll break skin, bruise, welt etc.
Or just bet a big ass dog. haha But I'm going to get a paintball gun for my dad for self defense. He use to own a .22 when he was a kid but he's on disability and doesn't have the money, even for a throwaway gun. So I'm going to go buy him a nice paintball gun, load him up with hundreds of trainer rounds, and he's good to go.
I'm glad you brought this up. You're right! A lot of people don't know this.
Informative and well done. Give us the facts without all the personal opinions. I like the common sense advice of study, test, train.
I always like the advice “ Find what works best for you”.
Great video.
I keep 7.5 for my house for the very reason described I. This video
Excellent video and I just tried this on 3/4 plywood and bird shot did so much damage to a very large area and that sealed it for me bird shot is the best for home defense at close range.
Sebastian Wittmann You would be right at long distance, but at ranges of up tp 30 feet bird shot will put huge holes in a person.
I shot a 2x6 at 15 feet and it blew a 2 in hole first shot and it broke it to pieces the second shot. You must try it for yourself. I also shot the 2x6 with a 22 and a 308 there was almost no damage with those. but the bird shot turned it into splinters in one or two shots.
if you hit a person just about anywhere it will make a mess of him. no other round can do so much damage without perfect shot placement.
Sebastian Wittmann Do you really think a human body is as tuff as a 2x6. you are 75% water. shoot a milk jug full of water with bird shot at 20 feet and be glad it's not your leg or arm or chest.As I have said from the start distance is key from 0 to 30 feet look out after that you want a 308 or something.
Robert M A milk jug only is contained by a thin layer of plastic and is lol when being compared to a human body. From the front there is a 75% chance that you while hit a bone if aiming for the chest, from a 45 degree angle there is still a 50% chance of hitting a bone. The person may have their arms up and you might have to shot through their arms and the bones in them also. There is a reason the FBI mandates at least 12 inches of penetration through ballistics gel and birdshot is no where even close to that. Unless you hit the vitals you are not really doing anything. People survive all the time with huge holes in them, missing arms, legs, etc. and they still can move, function, attack, etc. since it takes many minutes to bleed to death even with a huge gaping hole in you. Shotguns are like handguns, you need to be able to penetrate enough to hit vitals or else you are not stopping chit.
Butterstoo A 14 year old kid in my area got shot with bird shot when a party he was at got out of control. he did'nt have any chance to survive the damage was beyond what people think birdshot will do. the closer your target the worse his chances are. At twenty feet the hole is about 1.5 in I think you guys need to rethink. Hit a guy with a pistol say just in the arm not the bone though. is that going to stop him. hit him with birdshot 20 feet remember 1.5 inch hole same place no more arm. Bird shot will kill or stop or what ever you want to call it but use what ever you want in your gun. None of you will volenteer your ass to try it on because you know it will be very bad.
+Robert M Umm how does a 100 pound 14 year old compare to a 200+ pound man on drugs. They do, not try again. People live all the time after losing an arm or a leg. Massive blood loss will not stop an attacker. It could take them 5+ minutes to bleed to death even if the hole is larger then 1.5 inches. Plenty of time for them to hurt you or your family. Once again unless you hit the vitals you are not going to quickly or reliably stop an attacker or threat. Shotgun = handgun, just more bullets fired at once. If you want to stop people without hitting vitals get a high power rifle with fragmenting ammo.
This is just lovely. I've always been of the mind that 6 shot would be good for home defense. With birdshot you will easily penetrate skin. The bbs may stop on bone, but, the damage to muscle tissue and bleeding alone is strong. If you hit them in the face with birdshot, they may not die. Depending on range the bbs may not be strong enough to penetrate the skull. I dont really know, but, if you assume that they just aren't, there is still this - more bbs ripping through the skin is more chances to hit blood vessels close to the surface. Multiple small mass impacts with the same velocity and total mass as a single or a few large mass impacts theoretically deposits the same kinetic payload, so knockback power remains close. Also if one of those many bbs hits them in the eye, they're blind in that eye and it may be able to pass through the thin bone at the back of the eye. In the body, you have a lot more chances to hit a lot more things than with buckshot. Buckshot is fine imo, but I think 00 is a bit much. 4 shot sounds like a nice enough balance between the two. I would take 6 shot any day in a 20 and 4 in a 12. You got a shotgun, they have a little spread. You wanna use that to your advantage as much as possible. And yeah the overpen issue is why even a 9mm fmj is kinda a problem, even though I still consider a glock 19 9mm to be the quintessential all around daily carry personal defense weapon. A 20 gauge with 6 shot doesn't have that problem, but carrying around is more of a hassle.
On very close ranges if many pellets are a cluster they will smash bone and can be deadly especially on the head.
Thanks Roy, I just bought my first shotgun and these are the very questions I had
Excellent, sane, information, thank you Roy!
Give yourself more time to react to home invasions:
1 reinforce doors with 3 in
screws to the stud. This
will give you at least 30
seconds. Most doors have
small 1" screws anchored
to pine easily breached by
1 or 2 kicks or a strong
shoulder.
2 rehearse what your
response will be if
someone is trying to break
in.
3 know how to use your
weapon of choice.
4 install security cameras
with line crossing
notification.
5 Install security lighting
around perimeter of home.
6 NEVER tell anybody about
any valuables in your
home.
...and always, ALWAYS keep a yappy-little dog in close vicinity for those quiet intruders...except a chiuaua, in which case you may be the one going to prison for it maiming said intruder. :D
I have a friend who served as a Marine; he told me they preferred bird shot while he was serving abroad. They can be held accountable for deaths that were not targets. In close quarter operations.
That is the problem when you have the leftist Democrats in power. In a war there will always be collateral damage. Why should our brave soldiers be liable if someone get in the way while overseas fighting a war? That is the biggest BS.
@@alfonsobenitez8574 this is false, we use slugs. And aren't held accountable. You come within fighting distance, you get lit up. You drop to the floor, you are left alone.
@@zerotoninify
Is it true? During all the wars that the leftist Democrats are involved you have to wait to be shot at before you can shoot back. I can tell it offended your party, I don't belong to no political party. Just some people like you get offended and don't want to see the truth.
@@alfonsobenitez8574 That's rules of engagement and it's NATO based laws, I'm pretty sure, and under Bush and Trump the rules were the same. How about you know what you are talking about atleast a little bit before you start just saying shit.
@@TheFalconlazer
You have the right to Express your own opinion, but the the rules of engagement is approved by the commander in chief. Happened in Vietnam and you know very will that Obama was a pussy and during his administration our soldiers have to wait to get shot at before they can take action. So don't start talking like you are a big shit. Maybe you are and you don't know it.
I like #4 buck for close range defense really you get more pellets than '00' but they are larger than birdshot and will be more effective.
+Pfletch83 And over penetrate more.
sycamorebacker1 Over penetrate more than '00' buck? No, they could over penetrate more than birdshot though but that goes back to following the 4 rules before ever touching off a round.
+Pfletch83 No. #4 buck will penetrate more than bird shot. Large bird shot would be a comprise that might work safely.
If someone kicks in your back door. The rules of safety go out the window. That's why you need bird shot.
sycamorebacker1 Okay so you are stating that you would not use any sort of care in the use of a firearm as it relates to protecting yourself and family members and would have no problem taking any shot in any direction when using a shotgun loaded with birdshot?......Because that is what I take from your response. The fact is you need to always understand that no matter what load you use, you must always be sure of your backstop and to use a load that will reliably stop the threat (which #4 buck has been proven to do....if you want to know more about said shot size check out Massad Ayoob and what he says on the matter)
+Pfletch83 I don't suppose #4 buck is too bad. I just think bird shot would be better. If you put a sight on a bad guy and your kids' bedroom wall is behind him, I don't think you can call timeout and ask him to move over 6 feet because he is violating a safety rule. I believe putting a hole in him with bird shot would be a better option. Hopefully you'll be far enough away that a miss won't be lethal on the other side of the wall.
That's why I like the Judge. It spreads a lot at a distance. But if he comes closer you can make one big hole in his chest.
Finally, a voice of sanity! PH and this gentleman here, should be the brand ambassador of "responsible 2A guy" .
Very kind of you to say, sir. We’re still making videos like this all these years later! Thanks for taking the time to post and for your thoughtful comment. Roy
Thanks for your insightful assessment. I’m buying the Mossburg 590 for home defense and wondered what
load to use. Bird shot is the answer for me.
Excellent choice in weapon. However, I would implore you to reconsider #4 buck.
Thanks I live in an apt so I guess bird shots is the way to go
Ok people if birdshot is ineffective for home defence then why is it, here in South Dakota, at least one person is killed every year from being shot while out pheasent hunting? Most from a greater distance then across your living room. Unless your using a single shot you can quickly put a second round into some one. If he has friends they will most likely run after the first round.
no one is saying it isn't lethal but how many people are killed and how many are wounded or maimed?
The problem with those freak accidents is usually someone is swinging on a rising bird and they put a load of heavier #6 shot into their buddies face. The back of the head or the face have softer week points for a potential pellet to sneak through the skull.
birdshot is for birds that weight 1-10lb
buckshot is for deer that weight 100-300lb
Look at the anatomy of birds and deer and decide which more closely resembles a human? Do you think it is ethical to hunt large game with weapons and ammo meant for small game? Probably not. If you are shooting at someone it is to kill them and end the threat you don't want half measures.
#4 buck shot is a good compromise
Eye-opening, thanks for the video, it gives us something to think about. Always necessary to tailor your firearm/ammo to your individual situation.
While a high performance handgun makes sense for self defense in many circumstances, there is nothing that stops like a 12 gauge shotgun. I have been eyeballing a defensive shotgun and since I live alone in a home I think that I should pick up one soon.
I sleep well with #4 shot.
#2, BB, or even T shot works as well
My uncle said in Vietnam #4 shot was good for the brush and did the deed quite well.
@Alex Alexander .. Number 4 what? Buckshot or Birdshot?
@Alex Alexander #4 what , Birdshot??
@@Cosaco-il1sq im sure they mean 04
When I lived in my apartment I kept the first load with a home defense 1oz slug the rest was 71/2 bird load. I had 00 buck on the side rail. The idea was if I had to barricade myself and fire the first shot I would be fairly accurate and if I needed follow up shots in pursuit bird would do. Now i live in a house I have 00 buck in the tube and 00 buck on the side rail
Huntington is a good name for a gun enthusiast.
Lol Super Kyle, funny name. Have you had to use a weapon in self defense since you made this comment?
Shotgun is great for home defense in short barrel set ups. Thanks again for the information supplied.
hello! there.! I know this is an older video but I would like to thank you for the type of ammo to us for home defense. i have close neighbors and i wouldn't wanna put them in harms way.
Anyone should be able to purchase a firearm to protect their family. Its your choice. That's freedom.
Anyone should be able to go to school or attend a music concert or work their job without a nut with a gun wreaking terror, destruction or death. That’s the freedom the modern world outside the USA enjoys
Anyone should be able to purchase a nuclear weapon for protection from a tyrannical federal government.
It's your choice.
That's "Freedumb"
@ike nation mini taser, bush knife, pepper spray, and good self defense training and in martial art is pretty good too, you don't need a gun to defend yourself (at least not in Canada)
Not to quote any statistic but there are lots of mass shooting incidents happen in the States where the idea of many " I need this gun to protect myself and my family " translate into easy gun purchasing, and then result in mass shooting.
There isn't really an issue about the gun themselves, but the policies and rules how easy to obtain them because it's one of the amendment, which if the government and army choose to, they could easily missile and nuke a place instead of having war of attrition with its armed populace.
I would admire anyone owning a old Winchester rifle, or hunting rifle, because of marksmanship and history, kind of iffy with shot gun and hand gun but still agree with if you go into bear country, but ARs? That's a different story. There are some people out there, that will use this freedom, to get guns and commit horrible crimes, because to quote the phrase from dark knight, some people just want to watch the world burn...
@ike nation If you need an AR for hunting, you need to figure out another pass time, cause you suck. I suggest fishing.
@@cougar2k720 Why you people don't listen. Dark Armorers. Exist.
If you have good conections in the hood you can get illegal firearm in 15 minutes.
They get those from gun traffickers wich get them from countries like Brazil, Central America or Russia. Banning guns doesn't solve anything, i am disappointed that some ignorant peasants still belive it.
I have several guns around the house for my family to protect themselves. Several are shotguns, two are pistol shotguns. The are loaded with #4 shot. The “Duck load” keeps a good pattern and does some damage. I was concerned that when afraid their accuracy would be off.
I believe in shotguns and ultra bright flashlights for home defense!
Great vid! Thanks
Do all that you can do to make certain your intruder never has the ability to be someone else's intruder.
Just saw a video of a man shot with bird shot and walks away with minor injuries so I decided to sell all my birdshot and buy buckshot. Thanks for the video
This was extremely helpful. Thank you!
THANKS for video....getting our first shotgun....Mossberg 590A1
+Kenny A best choice out there!
+ERprepper we like it....3" 00 buckshot is really powerful! We have 3" slugs for bears. Mostly shoot 2.75 caseload.
ERprepper gameload...stupid spell correct!
The best choise ever
A damn fine choice.
Main Character in Hard Boiled uses one.
Thanks for sharing. I have both shells and I never even thought about the over penetration. I think the next couple of boxes will be bird shot. If you can there is always a warning shot. I never thought so many people would panic like this. I was a sport diver for 20 years, and I kill for food only. I even take spiders outside. Thanks for sharing.
Warning shot? No.
warning shot inscribed on your tombstone 🪦. Your crazy.
Either one will definitely make the intruder very unhappy.
Just use a Glock. Way more accurate. Can’t CCW a shotgun.
@@TraumaER Why would you want to CCW in your own home? That is what this video was intended for. Also, if you are awakened in the middle of the night and have to react, between your bearing from being awakened and your adrenaline, your accuracy will be affected. Harder to miss with a spread, or area target, than a point target. Then, just as the video discusses, there is the factor of over penetration. A Glock is not a one size fits all. Different strokes, for different yokes, for different folks.
@@metahater2994 haha. If I gotta wait the rest of this year to get a new Glock, I may end up getting a shotgun. New 17s/19s harder to find than a freaking unicorn. And I mean in store, not online or through shady means LOL. I want to walk into a Cabelas, show them my CCW, and pick up a new Gen 5 today!
@@TraumaER I know what you mean about having to wait for a firearm from a dealer, it definitely sucks. However, right now it seems easier for me to get firearms then ammo where I'm at. It has me seriously looking into reloading.
@@metahater2994 I wish I had gotten it a few years ago before this country started to go to hell. I waited too long and now popular guns hard to find and ammo prices off the charts.
This video is very much appreciated! Thank you!
Love it ive been trying to figure out which round to get for awhile now but ive been heavily thinking about birdshot
Good, hope this helped. Roy
#4 Buckshot is a good balance between effectiveness and not getting over penetration. Paul Harrell has a good presentation on the topic titled Home Defense: Penetration Through Walls.
I also have heard good things about #1 and #4 Buck. Not as easy to find, but I'll have to check some out.
If you have ever seen a post mortem x-ray of a chest cavity from 12 gauge # 4 ( not 4 buck ) it tells the tale. Pretty much all the center mass organs looked like Swiss cheese and most of the projectiles were captured. I know a lot of people who run the first 3 rounds as birdshot followed by 00 buck.
#4 Buck is a perfect compromise. Much less of a chance of over penetration while still providing ample penetration at home defense ranges.
2020. Can't find #00 right now so I picked up some Goose Loads - 3" Tried em out. Holy Crap. Cheap and I can stock up right now. I'm saving the 00 that I have for outside situations.
How many rounds in a #4 buck shot? 9?
@@alfonsobenitez8574 heck no more like 21- 24 pellets in a 2 3/4" shell of #4 buck shot.
#1 buckshot has typically 12 pellets in a 12 gauge.
You are right on of the difference between the two I've been a shot Gunner for over 50 years. All these years shooting a shot guns and many rifels I've just brought my frist
Hand gun at 62years old doing very well at it God bless
Thank U Sir for your excellent sober advice. I know birdshot to be fantastic for home defense at short distances (within 10 yards) so I don’t know why so many ppl insist on buckshot only. Great job!
Thanks sir, and I agree about birdshot. During my police career I saw several people killed with birdshot … Roy
Based on testing i have seen and pattern testing i have done, plus 20 years in LE, i would say #2 birdshot is a reasonable birdshot option. Pellet size is .15", and pelket count is about 90 to the oz. So a 1-1/4 oz load is about 112 pellets. At 1300-ish fps, that should be effective. My personal choice is #4 buck, but in a higher density living situation i would seriously consider #2 bird. A lot of people advocate turkey loads, most often #4. However, recoil can be heavy and i still think the shot size is a tad small. YMMV. At any rate, i would suggest using hunting loads (a full payload weight) rather than light target loads like the #8. STAY SAFE!
Hevi Shot # 4 will stone roll a coyote at 35yards.
What if you wake and hear your child screaming? Are you going to stay in your barricaded position? Nope, you'll run to the fight, and likely encounter a bad guy or bad guys in unpredictable ways. You honestly can't predict how or where the fight is going to occur.
For urban areas (apartments, houses close to each other, homes full of family members) I would use birdshot. Perhaps, as one person said, a load of buck after the first couple might make sense.
Very good video and well explained. 12ga birdshot 25ft or less is nasty.. and most in home defense situations will be half that distance.
Watch birdshot shot at jugs of liquid at 30ft. ua-cam.com/video/nTORYw5hSMs/v-deo.html Not very effective if you ask me. I would not chance it incase you have to shoot a bad guy at 30ft. A leather jacket or denim will severely weaken birdshot. I have 00 buck in my home.
I've seen videos of people getting shot point blank with bird shot and not being killed I would not want to use it for self defense.
Defending your home from outside invaders needs 50 yards or greater shots. Here is the best video you will see today regarding ballistics of 00 buck at 50 yards: ua-cam.com/video/_pIuUrjUIyQ/v-deo.html
Yea, and some won't. Guess you are shit out of luck if the intruder is shooting back from longer distance.
Well Done Roy...very informative, Thank you Sir
Thank you! I was just thinking about this and ran into your video.
My preference is the #4 birdshot. I have no concerns about using this load in my home. It can and will stop a bad person.
It's what I use. Sure, cops use buckshot. The military used buckshot in WWI and WWII…but their needs are different than mine. I live in a condo end unit and the three kids next door are under the age of five. If I can't stop a guy with multiple rounds of #4 birdshot to the face, then my time is up. Those kids will be okay, though. I won't do anything to hurt them.
I agree
Buy a Remington 1100 shot the fucker three times with bird shot...
Not the answer, but when I've used all my double odd buck, I use bird shot for home defense.
I tend to shoot a lot when I train and sometimes blow my extra ammo thinking I have more of the same at home.
I agree.
Be safe.
Shotgun shells come in a variety of sizes with the # referring to the number of bb's inside. The lower the number, the larger the bb's.
I use remington #4 nitro turkey loads. They are three inch shells and they pack a hell of a wallop, almost like shooting 00 buck.
In my cop days, I worked a shooting in which a daughter, whose drunk dad was beating her mother, shoot him at about 8 yards with #8 birdshot and literally blew his arm off at the shoulder and he bled out on the way to the hospital. Now note it was a modified choke, but one could not have asked for anything more effective. My home gun is loaded with left over #6 turkey loads.
That's some DOOM 4 level shit right here. You sure that girl isn't the next martian demon slayer?
Do you think #6 will be effective, about a whole box of number 6 before watching video
Nothing trumps experience!
I think a common misconception is "light" birdshot at close range will only make the bad guy mad and he then comes at you stronger. Truth is he will be down and if alive trying to get the hell away. If not you can always fire some more.
another 2 options are #4birdshot steel the kind used for waterfoul, a little bigger than #8 with a slightly higher penitration ability, or #4buck shot smaller pellets somewhat less penitration ability than 00buckshot, and more pellets, shot guns are very versital, pattern your shotgun with different loads and see what best fits your situation.
most folk try to pressure you into buying buckshot for home defense, but I'm glad I can justify my birdshot! 00 feels like too much gun for simple defense. Thank you for the information!
You bet. A dose of No.8 shot across the room will solve most problems. Nose around on youtube and search for tests of birdshot on meat and other things and I think you’ll be amazed. Roy
Thanks for a great video that is clearly explained and to the point in an efficient amount of time. Sometimes that's needed too.
Thanks Don't Blink, I appreciate you commenting. Sometimes the videos do run long, but during my tenure as editor of American Handgunner I learned the hard way shorter is almost always better! Roy H.
I typically use Federal #6 Game Load in my home’s self-defense 12 gauge. I have seen what they can do to larger game birds, such as turkey, grouse and pheasant. At close range their effectiveness is, in my opinion, more than up to the task of home defense-without too much over penetration.
I like a #2 lead goose load but yeah 2 or 4 gets larger pellet size and higher count.
I was just thinking: the key point is considering the risk of penetration, not specifically using #8 shot, so shot on-hand is a good starting point ... and I have some #𝟔 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐭 from when I used to hunt rabbits, sooo...
I have blown a 4 inch thick mesquite log completely in half from around 3 yards with one 12 gauge birdshot blast. That would definitely take somone's leg off and they would bleed to death fast, no joke.
In all fairness just hearing that infamous racking of the pump sends probably 90% running 8% stand there like a deer in headlights and the other 2% either round is sufficient at close range.
Hearing that sound will also warn an armed intruder that his opponent is armed as well. In this case I would personally prefer him or her to expect an unarmed victim.
I rather kill the intruder than to scare him off just jacking the pump but that’s just me 🤷🏻♂️
@@kundetjenesten killing someone is not a clean business especially when you have kids in your home that could possibly see the aftermath. I'd rather they run than me have to take their life but when its me and my kids life against theirs best believe I'm taking theirs.
@@robertdanser9877 I am not as tough as some here claim to be. I hope I will never have to hurt anyone for the rest of my life. But if someone use force to break into my home and wish to hurt me, then I doubt they are the kind of people that gets spooked by a sound. Being a peaceful man does not necessarily mean being naive.
@@kundetjenesten
It's not about being tough. If someone breaks into my home he's capable of anything including killing my children. I won't shoot to injure, I'll shoot to kill. You gave up your right to live the second you stepped into my house uninvited.
thank you that was extremely informative and helped me to make a better desition on which ammo to by for defending my home
Same as taking a knife to a gun fight. Damn, why use a gun if you are not going to kill!
Thanks! I was unsure of what ammo to buy for home defense purposes and this video really helped a lot :)
#6 shot in 12 gauge is perfect for home defense. Or hunting squirrel and rabbit. Just saying.
Right. I mean at what range can you 'anchor' a rabbit on the run with it? 25 yds? 30yds? What do people think that stuff will do to a man or even a large animal at only a few yards distance?
I live in an apartment, so over-penetration would be a serious problem. I'll go with birdshot if I need to use my shotgun against a home invasion.
I have obtained a Tokarev TX3 pump shotgun for home defense, and I have it loaded with #4 bird, with a full choke installed. I am quite confident that it will do the job against any perp foolish enough to break in, and I am not worried about taking out any of the neighbors. (And yes, I also have some buck and slug rounds in the event that the waste product impacts the air-moving machine.)
The problem is that "bird shot" is a term that covers an ENORMOUS range of shot sizes and powers.
Certainly I would not use a light trap #8 load for defense, but I would sure as heck view a #2 magnum turkey load to be COMPLETELY adequate for home defense.
Thanks for this video. It definitely help me understand what could work best in a particular situation.
Number 9 bird shot from a bird gun with an improved choke into a vaulted ceiling, about 3 yards above, punched a 1 inch hole straight through the roof.
Personally, I would go w/the #4 birdshot. Another option is to load 1 or 2 of the 1st loads with birdshot, and if you come across a worst case scenario, maybe someone crazed out on PCP or something or someone wearing a bullet proof vest(though highly unlikely), then follow the rest of the loads with buckshot and then even slugs. That should more than take care of business.
exactly what i was thinking. It makes perfect sense to me.
You are on the right track with the bigger bird shot, but a progressive loading in the gun it's self ,not shure I'd agree.
#6 or #4 bird shot in the tube mag but leave the buck shot and slugs on the side.
Reason being you can choose when to change load.
First shot you might have the time or need to drop a slug for pesky wildlife or the asshole at the door at 3am might want a good 00bk load. But when they get in the house the bird shot is ready to go.
I like to have the action open and tube full, #4bk on the side and slugs handy on the stock. Drop what you need and go.
I chose #4 and a 20 Gauge gun, a fail proof Remington pump.
jack in Vancouver #4 birdshot w/a 20 gauge would do the job no doubt. but if it was multiple attackers, I might put a few 00 buckshot loads or even a slug as the last shot just in case things got drastic. Plus a 5 shotgun shell holder wrapped around the stock of the gun would give you a total of 11 shots or so. Most shotguns are pretty dependable. That's the beauty of their design..they rarely fail. I went with a 12 gauge SXP Winchester Extreme Defender pump action. Supposedly is the fastest pump on the market
MIKE DEWALT Use a second gun. 223 or 308.
From Winchester's data.....4 Buck in 2 3/4 has 36 pellets. 4 Buck in 3" Mag has 42 pellets; however, the 2/34 shell travels 150 feet per second faster. Speed equals more killing distance. If you miss with 36 pellets you will probably miss with 42. When it comes to hunting I personally will take the extra 5 or 10 yards of killing distance. Each have identical amount of powder.
But for home defense the distance is practically irrelevant. Unless you life in a giant mansion or something.
For home defense, why not set up your shotgun magazine to feed two or three #8 birdshot first, followed by 00 buck? If the home invader wants to keep invading after getting hit with a couple of loads of #8, at least you'll know the next one should stop him in his tracks. But hopefully he'll get the idea before you have to resort to the 00 buck shell.
I got bird shot in the magtube, buckshot in the side saddle.
I keep my Mossberg 500 under my pillow with two rounds of #4 buck followed by 6 rounds of 00 buck.
How about having a pillow fight with the intruder instead!!
texman81 - that's what I did. However I use the very short tactical mossberg 930 (semi auto) because it's a year of time to chamber a round and makes all the difference on a second shot. We used Mossberg 500 pump in Afghanistan for reliability. Not too many doors to breach there so it was rarely ever used but feral animals like jackals always got inside the wire somehow and if you shot one with anything but the 12 you got in sooooo much trouble. There's so many rules in combat zones. Totally opposite of what I've seen on TV. Kinda disappointing.
Maybe you should think about "one shot, one kill". If he's still breathing he is a threat.
Excellent information and comparison, thanks for the advice👍
2022 just gettin crazy.
I have 3" turkey loads. They pattern great.
3" Goose Loads - Holy Crap. Cheaper and easier to get here in 2020
Dick Cheney tested out the waters with bird shot and almost killed the help.
murphjuss obummer would never fire a gun. He’d worry about breaking a nail.
and then after that, gun's Jamaican
Buckshot, buckshot, buckshot
Oh shit, Dave Chappelle fans represent!
Birdshot buckshot birdshot and then after that, guns Jamaican buck shot buck shot buck shot
😂😂😂😂
dave sent me :)
Thank you for this video, it gave me so much clarity. I purchased the number 6 before watching this video, but I see you using the number 8. But it can't be too much of a difference.
I greatly appreciate the information. I had always felt that in a home defense situation, everything you say is correct.
I don’t care what nobody say you can use 7 or 8 shot bird/target shells in a 12gauge. Anything within 15ft that person is dead.
Indeed. And IF they survive the retrieval of those pellets will be a nightmare for the doc!
Anyone saying birdshots are useless for home defence are welcome over to try it out. Noone wanted to prove their point as of yet...
@@kundetjenesten Same argument as .22 is ineffective as a bullet. Ok, you have a burglar and only a shotgun with birdshot. Charge the dude and use your fist when he's strapped with blicky's.
@@ReckerFidelWOLF dont say blicky.
@@oleyeller3256 Man I say what the fuck I want
@ʎʇɟǝl 1506 xı*ıx Man fuck barrel length if the shit traveling fast enough to enter yo body and make cavities period shit effective 😂 🤝
That "rat hole wound" is where the wadding punched the paper.
Yep, nice observation. Kinda take credibility of this guy down a peg or two.
That is what I was thinking also. Another 'expert' bites the dust.
@@ralphmowery2898 ha ha !
I can see your point, but where is the rat hole on the 00 buckshot side?
Um, if you watch it again you can see the wadding bounce off the paper so it did not penetrate the paper.
Lol 7 years ago they were saying “in these bad days”. 🤣 If only they knew.
I live in an apartment so this is a crucial choice for people like me. My Mossberg is loaded with #4, but I might switch to #8 after seeing this. I keep the feed tube full and the chamber empty to prevent accidental misfire. A quick rack and it's all systems go.
Great video!
He answered my questions.