I've struggled to find trad partners at times and found myself teaching a lot of people how to trad, just so I can have them as partners! So I've noticed a few things that might help beginners to learn to place gear. Even earlier in the learning process than what's described in this video, I think a good starting point for folks is to play the "going in direct" game. Basically, on the ground at your local crag, go up and place gear and go in direct to it with a lanyard, trusting your weight to it and bouncing around on it. It can be useful to try to place *the worst* gear that will actually hold (but only in this safe situation!). This is important because on real climbs, there's sometimes not perfect gear available, so you may be forced to place mediocre gear or just not perfect gear. In fact, I can find some textbook issue with almost any piece of gear I place: the majority of gear I find, I'd rate at between a 7 and a 9 out of 10 in "textbook" quality. The good news is, these pieces still hold! I often say I've never been surprised by a piece failing, but I've often been surprised by a piece holding. I think a lot of beginners get stuck on this because they are looking for every piece to be absolutely perfect when that's not realistic. Playing around with substandard placements in a safe context also lets you discover what aspects of a placement are really important. For example, a lot of manuals say to place cams in horizontal placements with the wider pair of lobes down. I'm sure there's some reason manufacturers say this, but in practice, I've not been able to detect a difference: cams seem to hold with the wide side up or down, so I'll prioritize other factors in my placements, even if that means placing a horizontal placement with lobes up. In contrast, rock quality is a HUGE factor which isn't usually in gear manuals: the #1 thing that fails in a placement in my experience is the rock breaking or flexing. So I'll prioritize placing in solid rock very highly. Toward the more recent years of my experience, as I've gained an intellectual understanding of gear placements and know what will hold and what won't, there's still a gut-level feeling that none of this works and I'm going to fall to my death. This fundamental feeling lingers for me even when I'm on routes where intellectually I know all the gear is very solid. The only way I've found to deal with that fear is to take falls--progressively larger and larger falls. When I know my gear is 10/10 and my fall path is just air, I want to be able to act as such, and push myself without fear. Usually at the beginning of a trad season I'll take a few big falls just to get my head in order. But even planned falls don't 100% prepare me for an unplanned fall while trying my hardest, so at some point I just have to get on a route and try to get up it without falling, knowing that falling (safely!) is a real possibility. In those cases, taking the big fall and getting out the willies is sometimes more valuable even than getting the send!
Advising beginners to place a piece at the base of the crag then just sit on it....ever thought about when your piece fails....awful easy to end up on your ass....not good advise. Being on a top rope whilst testing pieces (in whatever context) is a MUCH better idea :)
@@eclipsearchery9387 Not only have I thought about what happens when a piece fails, I've seen plenty of pieces fail while playing this game. Nobody has been hurt, because generally people are capable of keeping their feet under them. If you have advice from experience, feel free to share, but it's unwise to go around calling things bad advice if you haven't experienced them.
Thanks for yet another top-quality video, Dave. It might be an obvious point to many, but I recently learned (the hard way) the importance of taking the time ensure your gear placements are good, even when the climbing is well within your ability. Climbing in my home area in the Canadian Rockies, I began up the fourth pitch of a beautiful line, knowing that the crux of the climb lay about halfway up this pitch. About a third of the way up, I found myself staring at a poor blue camalot placement in a flaring crack and made the fateful decision to continue above that placement to a jug and better opportunities for good gear. On the way to doing so, the hold I was pulling on broke off and I fell. The blue camalot pulled out and I hit the slab below, badly breaking the 2nd through 5th metatarsals in might right foot. I am now looking at the very real possibility of not regaining full functionality in my foot. In retrospect, I very likely could have found a good wire somewhere close to that bad blue camalot and avoided this injury, but I was overconfident in my ability to "solo" that section of the climb. When better gear is available, it is well worth your time to find it!
Thanks for sharing this and allowing us all to learn from it. I'm guessing we've all placed the questionable thing with the same thought in mind... jug just ahead...
If you have two friends and two ropes a good learning method I did was to have a loose top rope as a back up while leading. This way you can lead a pitch regularly and test out taking really big falls on gear with the peace of mind that if you rip a piece the top rope will catch you.
I've done a similar tactic when I was starting out on trad, though instead of rappelling onto the route to test placements I would walk along the base of a cliff and pick gear placements that I could do while standing. Another method of bounce testing I did was attaching a sling to the cam or nut, putting my foot into the sling (kinda like an aider) and fully stepping up into it and weighting the piece. You can really bounce test pieces this way and you realize how much force these pieces can take. I'd also suggest picking some placements that don't look *that* great, and seeing how many pieces of gear can fit in that place, and of those that fit, how many can support a bounce test. This all culminated into a trip to Squamish where I ended up going off-route and taking a whip onto a .3 cam. It held beautifully, and I firmly believe that placement was a direct result of practising these placements at ground level.
Thank you for this video Dave, great to see a world class trad climber work through their process of gear placements. Many trad videos seem to ignore this crucial element to the routes haha
Thanks for the good video, Dave! After 10+ years trad climbing, this summer my confidence in placements had a good jump after a partner rescue training weekend, entirely done in trad gear. At some point during the course, I stopped and observed everyone, around 6 pairs of climbers, all hanging on that wall in trad gear, rappeling with the "victim". After some practices, we even took fall exercices in marginal gear (of course with solid gear as backup). Another tip I usually do, particularly in hard routes, is spacing out the gear, and putting 2 in every stop. You spare energy by stopping less, and can wait until a good spot to place the gear, and once you're there, put 2 =) Considering of course fall length and trajectory etc.
My god, there is more high quality information in this video than in dozens of others I've sat through. Thank you, Dave. I've the same problem you mentioned at the start, where I'm pretty much 7a sport but trad second S/VS (still early in my trad explorations!) and it's the 'feeling like im soloing' mentality that's holding me back. I've never heard it described so succinctly. What a fantastic video.
This is exactly what I needed to see. Have been trad climbing for a year now and the grades I'm climbing are nowhere near my sport grades. I'm yet to take a fall on trad, and I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously a little bit) I'm only picking routes that I'm pretty damn sure I won't fall on! This is something I will definitely have a play with, to try and build some confidence in my gear. Brilliant video! Thanks Dave!
Wow I enjoyed this way more than I expected to! I could watch this sort of video, placements and route strategies with commentary for specific routes and placements, all day long! I have a massive discrepancy between my sport and trad grades and the number one reason is confidence in protection.
A really helpful video. I just started at the gym a month ago, so I'm trying to learn the language and what everything means. I come up with questions about 1 per minute. This answered a lot of those questions to a deep level. Perfect!
I’ve only climbed at the indoor wall (go Kendal!) so far and am hoping to get some trad climbing in the Lakes soon. Gear placement and reliability has been weighing heavily on my mind so it’s really good to see this video. Really well shot too, not easy by yourself. 👍
Thank you for this Dave!! I've been feeling held back because I've been waiting around for belay partners to practice on top rope with - now I have a safe way to experiment on my own.
Very interesting tactic! I always learned by mock leading trad routes on top rope and having an experienced climber follow and provide feedback on the placements. I agree that aid climbing is a great way to increase confidence in your placements and learn about the rock features.
Another good method is trying overhand bites at 3m intervals on a static rope next to the route and clipping quickdraws into them. Then lead it placing gear, whilst clipping the draws as backup as you go. Give the gear a rating out of 10 and then lob onto it. You'd be surprised what holds but even if it doesn't you're safely backed-up by an ab rope. Worth noting that weighting or falling onto gear in fragile/sedimentary rock should be avoided if possible but on mountain rock like this it's no bother.
Super helpful & very well done. I've been climbing for 26 years & the older I get the more I feel like I'm free soloing above gear.Good idea to go back to the basics. Aid climbing certainly helps to develop trust in your placements.
For years I climbed at Polldubh, not just on the guide book routes but wee crags all over the place. Dave now climbs on all the crags I/we said were not for humans... glen decoration only. I always thought the 'dubh was the best cragging spot in Scotland, very lake districty...it was also where I first climbed thanks to loch eil centre... Keep them coming Dave, always educational/entertaining...we taught ourselves and I would have loved videos like this...
Thank you for this! This is some of what I did as a new leader 20 years ago as I did not have a mentor and UA-cam was not available. Lately I've been doing more solo self belaying and am really benefiting from all the techniques that you're sharing. I especially appreciate the psychology and thought processes you share to help keep me out of trouble. Thank you Dave!
Aid climbing is another (perhaps scarier) way to learn to place good gear. When you're on lead hanging on gear you tend to really get it in there. ha. When I started climbing I Aid climbed a good deal just to get ready to climb El Cap. That helped a lot. But, I haven't aid climbed in many many years and I'm more chicken on trad than I used to be. I need to go practice! Maybe I'll try this method. Thx! great vid. I should add that I'd stay off trade routes when practicing stuff like this, if possible.
Great video Dave :) There really is no substitute for weighting gear to learn what's good, and so many people make it a year or more into trad without really doing so. One thing to be cautious of if you aid your way up a route is to weight the upper piece while maintaining close to zero slack in your attachment to the lower piece for those few seconds before you unclip from the lower piece. Using a quickdraw or any other static tether would give you a proper wallop if the upper piece fails while you weight it and you are still attached to the lower piece with slack and a static tether. Ideally if the upper piece fails you swing back onto the lower piece instead of falling onto it.
Thank you for all of the amazing content you provide Dave. I took a ground fall at the end of August and broke my pelvis, so your recent activity has been particularly appreciated.
Evaluating the gear below you is also a good idea - if the gear is good below you and you're far enough above the ground, then spending lots of energy on a fiddly marginal placement is not ideal. However, if you look up and see that that fiddly marginal piece will be the last piece for a while, then you may want to spend time on it anyhow, or as said in the video, consider retreat.
Can’t agree more and not sure why aid climbing with aggressive testing is not recommended by wannabe “trad experts “ but that’s how I actually started my climbing, long trad routes with aid section so you get to learn what holds and what not rather quick . An important point I’d add is DONT LOOK at your gear while testing it aggressively ( body weight on jumping in your harness) as nut/cam flying into your face is somewhat painful ( expensive if you need a new tooth 😉).
Nice one, “Thanks”. My assumption from watching the video closely is that you used a static rope and that (like previous videos such as “How to use the Petzel Shunt…” you had weighted the rope. Very informative and fun to watch. Cheers
Great video In addition to this I have five guide lines for learning to placing gear. 1. Check the rock you're gear is about to go in. You want solid rock not flaky, sandy, choss. 2. Look at the shape of the rock for what gear is going to work best. Parallel cracks cams, constrictions wires, ect 3. Bigger is better, the larger the piece the more rock needs to be displaced for it to fail. 4. Maximise surface area, when placing wires the more surface contact with the rock the less like it is to move around and the less likely it is to break the rock it's in contact with. Cams, even lobes and not too open or contracted. 5. Place in direction of load/fall. Obviously when you're actually climbing you don't have the time and freedom that you would on the ground to take all these considerations into account. Which makes aid climbing a few routes when you're starting out a great learning tool, as Dave suggests. Practice makes perfect. Be safe have fun
honestly this technique on top rope solo during the pandemic was huge for me - i had spent 2019 following a friend who was new to trad leading, and in retrospect I learned a lot, although I didn't decide to learn trad myself until the end of the year. often it's hard to find enough gear placements at ground level, and often is annoying at popular crags. picking a single route to abseil, place gear, test gear, TRS and pull gear in hard spots, really helps dial in what works and what doesn't, with relative safety of a top rope backup (and not annoying a belayer with slow aiding)
Dave a good instructional video, and also a good way of learning gear placements it’s part of how I learned to place & trust gear placement, over forty years ago. Although unlike you, I was very lucky that I had my Uncle taking me climbing & he initially give me great instruction on gear, gear placements, lead climbing & climbing ethics. I did initially started to learn on a Hawse-laid rope & wastlings etc., before moving on & leading using a Whillans Sit harness & Kernmantel rope.
Thanks Dave, a great video, as all yours are. I am just about to start Trad leading so this video has come out at a perfect time for me. This seems like a safe way that I can get lots of practice placing solid gear and gaining confidence before I do my first Trad lead. Much appreciated.
Sure like the WC rocks and still remember the gouges made in the WC #6 by Chick Hill granite near Bangor, Maine when I fell. I think at the time chouinard stoppers were not yet curved but WC had pioneered curved wired nuts.
Hey Dave, @2:08 why not use an alpine butterfly instead? I think it would be better. Technically it's more bomber and just as easy to tie/adjust. Also much easier to untie compared to a loaded overhand ;)
Like many progressions, going at it from either end alternately is a good tactic. I.e. trad climbing really easy climbs that you know you won't fall on and then getting on a climb with great gear, like in the video, that you will fall on almost every move. That way you dog the hell out of the climb as well as fall on the same solid piece many times. Basically what Dave is doing but with falls on solid, backed up gear.
I love this idea of placing gear on rappel or aiding up! There's a 5.5 in my local crag that I've practice placements on, and I am confident I would never fall on the route, but I'm still hesitant to lead it on gear because I'd like to know if I fell, I'd be protected, rather than feeling like I'm soloing (even if I'm confident I won't fall). I'll be trying these techniques so that when I lead it, I'm comfortable taking practice falls then as well.
Great video, especially listening to your thought process. Hanging off a top rope and testing the placements was the technique that has helped/helps me as the idea of trusting what something looks like was/is ludicrous. Hopefully this video will help silence the luddites who criticise the technique of weighting, bouncing, climbing and even the odd fall with a backup top rope to learn about what is most likely to be safe. 👍👍
Hi Dave, thanks for the great video. Suppose I could do something similar while top rope soloing? Stopping to test and place gear instead of just climbing the route?
Years ago, a more experienced climber than me expressed that aid climbing is the best way to learn how to place solid gear cuz you basically have to weight every piece! It is laborious though.
Thanks for another great video Dave! I noticed that when you place nuts you take the whole set, place the chosen nut and then clip all the others back on you harness. On the other hand, with cams, each cam is hanging on your harness with its own carabiner. I have always seen it done exactly this way but always wandered what the motivation is. Why not a carabiner for every nut as well, or the other way round, (partial) sets of cams on the same carabiner? Is it to compromise between number of carabiners you're carrying vs. risk of dropping a whole set of protections? Thank you so much again!
Its easier to estimate the size you need with cams and there is also more room for adjustment than with wires. Just too many wires on my harness (usually a double set at least from micros right through) to have a karabiner for each. Plus, with a single krab they would likely be too short to avoid rope drag and/or being pulled out. So better overall to keep them clustered on a krab and then add a quickdraw. I have three nut karabiners - micros, medium and large. I did actually shoot a whole section on how I rack my gear in this video but took it out as I thought it might be a bit long.
just noticed. Sitting next to a flowing water to record a speech isn't the best idea 😏 in theory once a mistake like this will be made, you could "explain" to your video editing software that this water flow is a noise and it could cut the frequencies from the talk. edit: just reached the part when you are talking about the noise. if you would like me to help you to remove that noise/explain how to do it (for the future), just let me know. I can definitely find some good resources on YT for you based on what do you use to edit the videos
I've struggled to find trad partners at times and found myself teaching a lot of people how to trad, just so I can have them as partners! So I've noticed a few things that might help beginners to learn to place gear.
Even earlier in the learning process than what's described in this video, I think a good starting point for folks is to play the "going in direct" game. Basically, on the ground at your local crag, go up and place gear and go in direct to it with a lanyard, trusting your weight to it and bouncing around on it. It can be useful to try to place *the worst* gear that will actually hold (but only in this safe situation!). This is important because on real climbs, there's sometimes not perfect gear available, so you may be forced to place mediocre gear or just not perfect gear. In fact, I can find some textbook issue with almost any piece of gear I place: the majority of gear I find, I'd rate at between a 7 and a 9 out of 10 in "textbook" quality. The good news is, these pieces still hold! I often say I've never been surprised by a piece failing, but I've often been surprised by a piece holding. I think a lot of beginners get stuck on this because they are looking for every piece to be absolutely perfect when that's not realistic.
Playing around with substandard placements in a safe context also lets you discover what aspects of a placement are really important. For example, a lot of manuals say to place cams in horizontal placements with the wider pair of lobes down. I'm sure there's some reason manufacturers say this, but in practice, I've not been able to detect a difference: cams seem to hold with the wide side up or down, so I'll prioritize other factors in my placements, even if that means placing a horizontal placement with lobes up. In contrast, rock quality is a HUGE factor which isn't usually in gear manuals: the #1 thing that fails in a placement in my experience is the rock breaking or flexing. So I'll prioritize placing in solid rock very highly.
Toward the more recent years of my experience, as I've gained an intellectual understanding of gear placements and know what will hold and what won't, there's still a gut-level feeling that none of this works and I'm going to fall to my death. This fundamental feeling lingers for me even when I'm on routes where intellectually I know all the gear is very solid. The only way I've found to deal with that fear is to take falls--progressively larger and larger falls. When I know my gear is 10/10 and my fall path is just air, I want to be able to act as such, and push myself without fear. Usually at the beginning of a trad season I'll take a few big falls just to get my head in order. But even planned falls don't 100% prepare me for an unplanned fall while trying my hardest, so at some point I just have to get on a route and try to get up it without falling, knowing that falling (safely!) is a real possibility. In those cases, taking the big fall and getting out the willies is sometimes more valuable even than getting the send!
Well, I've never got my willie out while falling...probably why I don't like falling...
@@howler6490 Haaa, I forgot that word had a different meaning on that side of the pond.
this is such a great comment, thanks for sharing your experience :)
Advising beginners to place a piece at the base of the crag then just sit on it....ever thought about when your piece fails....awful easy to end up on your ass....not good advise. Being on a top rope whilst testing pieces (in whatever context) is a MUCH better idea :)
@@eclipsearchery9387 Not only have I thought about what happens when a piece fails, I've seen plenty of pieces fail while playing this game. Nobody has been hurt, because generally people are capable of keeping their feet under them. If you have advice from experience, feel free to share, but it's unwise to go around calling things bad advice if you haven't experienced them.
MacLeod for knighthood!
NO...he must become "the one"
New Chancellor maybe?
I would fit into a Tory cabinet like a line of bolts up the middle of the Cromlech.
@@climbermacleod hahahhhaha!!
@@climbermacleod 🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for yet another top-quality video, Dave. It might be an obvious point to many, but I recently learned (the hard way) the importance of taking the time ensure your gear placements are good, even when the climbing is well within your ability. Climbing in my home area in the Canadian Rockies, I began up the fourth pitch of a beautiful line, knowing that the crux of the climb lay about halfway up this pitch. About a third of the way up, I found myself staring at a poor blue camalot placement in a flaring crack and made the fateful decision to continue above that placement to a jug and better opportunities for good gear. On the way to doing so, the hold I was pulling on broke off and I fell. The blue camalot pulled out and I hit the slab below, badly breaking the 2nd through 5th metatarsals in might right foot. I am now looking at the very real possibility of not regaining full functionality in my foot. In retrospect, I very likely could have found a good wire somewhere close to that bad blue camalot and avoided this injury, but I was overconfident in my ability to "solo" that section of the climb. When better gear is available, it is well worth your time to find it!
Thanks for sharing this and allowing us all to learn from it. I'm guessing we've all placed the questionable thing with the same thought in mind... jug just ahead...
So you mind providing details on what you did to get out of there safely? Great for us to learn from. Thanks for sharing :)
DUDE, this camera placement is so good! I would love to learn from you how you like to capture video for climbing!
If you have two friends and two ropes a good learning method I did was to have a loose top rope as a back up while leading. This way you can lead a pitch regularly and test out taking really big falls on gear with the peace of mind that if you rip a piece the top rope will catch you.
I've done a similar tactic when I was starting out on trad, though instead of rappelling onto the route to test placements I would walk along the base of a cliff and pick gear placements that I could do while standing. Another method of bounce testing I did was attaching a sling to the cam or nut, putting my foot into the sling (kinda like an aider) and fully stepping up into it and weighting the piece. You can really bounce test pieces this way and you realize how much force these pieces can take. I'd also suggest picking some placements that don't look *that* great, and seeing how many pieces of gear can fit in that place, and of those that fit, how many can support a bounce test.
This all culminated into a trip to Squamish where I ended up going off-route and taking a whip onto a .3 cam. It held beautifully, and I firmly believe that placement was a direct result of practising these placements at ground level.
Thank you for this video Dave, great to see a world class trad climber work through their process of gear placements. Many trad videos seem to ignore this crucial element to the routes haha
Thanks for the good video, Dave!
After 10+ years trad climbing, this summer my confidence in placements had a good jump after a partner rescue training weekend, entirely done in trad gear. At some point during the course, I stopped and observed everyone, around 6 pairs of climbers, all hanging on that wall in trad gear, rappeling with the "victim". After some practices, we even took fall exercices in marginal gear (of course with solid gear as backup).
Another tip I usually do, particularly in hard routes, is spacing out the gear, and putting 2 in every stop. You spare energy by stopping less, and can wait until a good spot to place the gear, and once you're there, put 2 =) Considering of course fall length and trajectory etc.
My god, there is more high quality information in this video than in dozens of others I've sat through. Thank you, Dave. I've the same problem you mentioned at the start, where I'm pretty much 7a sport but trad second S/VS (still early in my trad explorations!) and it's the 'feeling like im soloing' mentality that's holding me back. I've never heard it described so succinctly. What a fantastic video.
This is exactly what I needed to see. Have been trad climbing for a year now and the grades I'm climbing are nowhere near my sport grades. I'm yet to take a fall on trad, and I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously a little bit) I'm only picking routes that I'm pretty damn sure I won't fall on! This is something I will definitely have a play with, to try and build some confidence in my gear. Brilliant video! Thanks Dave!
Wow I enjoyed this way more than I expected to! I could watch this sort of video, placements and route strategies with commentary for specific routes and placements, all day long! I have a massive discrepancy between my sport and trad grades and the number one reason is confidence in protection.
A really helpful video. I just started at the gym a month ago, so I'm trying to learn the language and what everything means. I come up with questions about 1 per minute. This answered a lot of those questions to a deep level. Perfect!
I’ve only climbed at the indoor wall (go Kendal!) so far and am hoping to get some trad climbing in the Lakes soon. Gear placement and reliability has been weighing heavily on my mind so it’s really good to see this video. Really well shot too, not easy by yourself. 👍
Thank you for this Dave!! I've been feeling held back because I've been waiting around for belay partners to practice on top rope with - now I have a safe way to experiment on my own.
Very interesting tactic! I always learned by mock leading trad routes on top rope and having an experienced climber follow and provide feedback on the placements. I agree that aid climbing is a great way to increase confidence in your placements and learn about the rock features.
Another good method is trying overhand bites at 3m intervals on a static rope next to the route and clipping quickdraws into them. Then lead it placing gear, whilst clipping the draws as backup as you go. Give the gear a rating out of 10 and then lob onto it. You'd be surprised what holds but even if it doesn't you're safely backed-up by an ab rope. Worth noting that weighting or falling onto gear in fragile/sedimentary rock should be avoided if possible but on mountain rock like this it's no bother.
Very clever idea
Super helpful & very well done. I've been climbing for 26 years & the older I get the more I feel like I'm free soloing above gear.Good idea to go back to the basics. Aid climbing certainly helps to develop trust in your placements.
For years I climbed at Polldubh, not just on the guide book routes but wee crags all over the place.
Dave now climbs on all the crags I/we said were not for humans... glen decoration only.
I always thought the 'dubh was the best cragging spot in Scotland, very lake districty...it was also where I first climbed thanks to loch eil centre...
Keep them coming Dave, always educational/entertaining...we taught ourselves and I would have loved videos like this...
Thank you for this! This is some of what I did as a new leader 20 years ago as I did not have a mentor and UA-cam was not available. Lately I've been doing more solo self belaying and am really benefiting from all the techniques that you're sharing. I especially appreciate the psychology and thought processes you share to help keep me out of trouble. Thank you Dave!
Aid climbing is another (perhaps scarier) way to learn to place good gear. When you're on lead hanging on gear you tend to really get it in there. ha. When I started climbing I Aid climbed a good deal just to get ready to climb El Cap. That helped a lot. But, I haven't aid climbed in many many years and I'm more chicken on trad than I used to be. I need to go practice! Maybe I'll try this method. Thx! great vid. I should add that I'd stay off trade routes when practicing stuff like this, if possible.
I don't even climb but I find your videos fascinating.
I’m not a climber at all but really enjoy watching others climb and love your vids 👏
Great video Dave :) There really is no substitute for weighting gear to learn what's good, and so many people make it a year or more into trad without really doing so.
One thing to be cautious of if you aid your way up a route is to weight the upper piece while maintaining close to zero slack in your attachment to the lower piece for those few seconds before you unclip from the lower piece. Using a quickdraw or any other static tether would give you a proper wallop if the upper piece fails while you weight it and you are still attached to the lower piece with slack and a static tether. Ideally if the upper piece fails you swing back onto the lower piece instead of falling onto it.
Thank you for all of the amazing content you provide Dave. I took a ground fall at the end of August and broke my pelvis, so your recent activity has been particularly appreciated.
I am going to practice this at devils lake! Thanks for the knowledge and ideas!
Cheers, Dave!
Evaluating the gear below you is also a good idea - if the gear is good below you and you're far enough above the ground, then spending lots of energy on a fiddly marginal placement is not ideal. However, if you look up and see that that fiddly marginal piece will be the last piece for a while, then you may want to spend time on it anyhow, or as said in the video, consider retreat.
Can’t agree more and not sure why aid climbing with aggressive testing is not recommended by wannabe “trad experts “ but that’s how I actually started my climbing, long trad routes with aid section so you get to learn what holds and what not rather quick . An important point I’d add is DONT LOOK at your gear while testing it aggressively ( body weight on jumping in your harness) as nut/cam flying into your face is somewhat painful ( expensive if you need a new tooth 😉).
Nice one, “Thanks”. My assumption from watching the video closely is that you used a static rope and that (like previous videos such as “How to use the Petzel Shunt…” you had weighted the rope. Very informative and fun to watch. Cheers
Thank you so much for all the great videos
Thank you Dave! A brilliant and very helpful video
Great video
In addition to this I have five guide lines for learning to placing gear.
1. Check the rock you're gear is about to go in. You want solid rock not flaky, sandy, choss.
2. Look at the shape of the rock for what gear is going to work best. Parallel cracks cams, constrictions wires, ect
3. Bigger is better, the larger the piece the more rock needs to be displaced for it to fail.
4. Maximise surface area, when placing wires the more surface contact with the rock the less like it is to move around and the less likely it is to break the rock it's in contact with. Cams, even lobes and not too open or contracted.
5. Place in direction of load/fall.
Obviously when you're actually climbing you don't have the time and freedom that you would on the ground to take all these considerations into account. Which makes aid climbing a few routes when you're starting out a great learning tool, as Dave suggests. Practice makes perfect.
Be safe have fun
honestly this technique on top rope solo during the pandemic was huge for me - i had spent 2019 following a friend who was new to trad leading, and in retrospect I learned a lot, although I didn't decide to learn trad myself until the end of the year. often it's hard to find enough gear placements at ground level, and often is annoying at popular crags. picking a single route to abseil, place gear, test gear, TRS and pull gear in hard spots, really helps dial in what works and what doesn't, with relative safety of a top rope backup (and not annoying a belayer with slow aiding)
thanks, would love to see more thoughts on gear placement
Dave a good instructional video, and also a good way of learning gear placements it’s part of how I learned to place & trust gear placement, over forty years ago. Although unlike you, I was very lucky that I had my Uncle taking me climbing & he initially give me great instruction on gear, gear placements, lead climbing & climbing ethics. I did initially started to learn on a Hawse-laid rope & wastlings etc., before moving on & leading using a Whillans Sit harness & Kernmantel rope.
Thanks Dave, a great video, as all yours are.
I am just about to start Trad leading so this video has come out at a perfect time for me.
This seems like a safe way that I can get lots of practice placing solid gear and gaining confidence before I do my first Trad lead. Much appreciated.
Sure like the WC rocks and still remember the gouges made in the WC #6 by Chick Hill granite near Bangor, Maine when I fell. I think at the time chouinard stoppers were not yet curved but WC had pioneered curved wired nuts.
Thought about trying this exact process recently. This coming from you makes me certain - thanks!
I did wonder if Macleod uses BD nuts as he is sponsored by BD and uses their cams however you don’t see a lot of trad climbers in the UK use them.
I am sponsored by BD, but they are still the best nuts and underrated in the UK.
Hey Dave, @2:08 why not use an alpine butterfly instead? I think it would be better. Technically it's more bomber and just as easy to tie/adjust. Also much easier to untie compared to a loaded overhand ;)
Like many progressions, going at it from either end alternately is a good tactic. I.e. trad climbing really easy climbs that you know you won't fall on and then getting on a climb with great gear, like in the video, that you will fall on almost every move. That way you dog the hell out of the climb as well as fall on the same solid piece many times. Basically what Dave is doing but with falls on solid, backed up gear.
I love this idea of placing gear on rappel or aiding up! There's a 5.5 in my local crag that I've practice placements on, and I am confident I would never fall on the route, but I'm still hesitant to lead it on gear because I'd like to know if I fell, I'd be protected, rather than feeling like I'm soloing (even if I'm confident I won't fall). I'll be trying these techniques so that when I lead it, I'm comfortable taking practice falls then as well.
Great video, especially listening to your thought process. Hanging off a top rope and testing the placements was the technique that has helped/helps me as the idea of trusting what something looks like was/is ludicrous. Hopefully this video will help silence the luddites who criticise the technique of weighting, bouncing, climbing and even the odd fall with a backup top rope to learn about what is most likely to be safe. 👍👍
Hi Dave, thanks for the great video. Suppose I could do something similar while top rope soloing? Stopping to test and place gear instead of just climbing the route?
Another great video Dave
Masterclass! .. awesome video, thanks!
Years ago, a more experienced climber than me expressed that aid climbing is the best way to learn how to place solid gear cuz you basically have to weight every piece! It is laborious though.
Thanks Dave
Awesome video. Thank you so much.
this video is a game changer
Cant wait to try this!
Thank you
Thanks for another great video Dave! I noticed that when you place nuts you take the whole set, place the chosen nut and then clip all the others back on you harness. On the other hand, with cams, each cam is hanging on your harness with its own carabiner. I have always seen it done exactly this way but always wandered what the motivation is. Why not a carabiner for every nut as well, or the other way round, (partial) sets of cams on the same carabiner? Is it to compromise between number of carabiners you're carrying vs. risk of dropping a whole set of protections? Thank you so much again!
Its easier to estimate the size you need with cams and there is also more room for adjustment than with wires. Just too many wires on my harness (usually a double set at least from micros right through) to have a karabiner for each. Plus, with a single krab they would likely be too short to avoid rope drag and/or being pulled out. So better overall to keep them clustered on a krab and then add a quickdraw. I have three nut karabiners - micros, medium and large. I did actually shoot a whole section on how I rack my gear in this video but took it out as I thought it might be a bit long.
@@climbermacleod oh! I hope you have kept that section, I would really love to see it! :-)
@@climbermacleod Would also love to see how you rack your gear!
Loving this!
great vid Dave
Hiya, does anyone know how Dave top roped himself? It looked like he was using a grigri? Is that all that is needed?
How I self belay top rope with the Shunt
ua-cam.com/video/q4N2WGcABLo/v-deo.html
@@climbermacleod Thanks so much! Just watched it, top quality video!
very good thanks
GUYS, NEW DAVE VIDEO DROPPED!
Funny, this is exactly how I learned to place gear. My friend belayed me though.
5:45 - 6:05 It's clear that you really love the rock !
What do you mean?
@climbermacleod he was making a joke about you borderline humping the rock
@climbermacleod your body movements look sexual
Just wow!!!
Thats a good idea
"Dr. MacLeod, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Gear"
just noticed. Sitting next to a flowing water to record a speech isn't the best idea 😏 in theory once a mistake like this will be made, you could "explain" to your video editing software that this water flow is a noise and it could cut the frequencies from the talk. edit: just reached the part when you are talking about the noise. if you would like me to help you to remove that noise/explain how to do it (for the future), just let me know. I can definitely find some good resources on YT for you based on what do you use to edit the videos
Bump
1st ;o