Coach Zahabi on Veganism
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Coach answer a question about why he's not vegan
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As a vegan and someone who's used to debating this subject. I can tell you that we only consider we have a moral obligation towards animals because they are sentient beings, plants are not. We aren't pro life, we don't defende animals because they are alive. We do because they are sentient, that's what matters.
A plant cannot think, or experience reality in a subjective matter as animals and we do. Therefore we don't have any obligation towards them. They are something, not someone. They don't have a brain or nervous system.
We know we harm animals and insects through many indirect ways, it's impossible to not do so. But we advocate reducing that harm the most we can. Causing harm to others in some way is not excuse to start causing the most harm possible.
Also animals do have recollection about their past, it's impossible to not do so. We have to remember human beings are animals too. Why would a dog who was abused as a puppy with a broom, would later be scared of a human that would hold a broom. He knows the danger of it. Animals also plan for the future, some wait in a place expecting a prey or others recollect food for winter. They do plan for future.
Also if you're are arguing that it's permissible to kill a animal because he doesn't have the same profound philoshical questions that we do ourselves. Should we be allow to kill babies? people with mental disabilities? Should it be ok to kill dogs or cats for whatever the motive?
Honestly using intelligence as a baseline to commit murder is just dumb, where would you draw the line. There are more people smarter and dumber than you are. Can you kill the ones who are dumber than you? Can the people that are smarter than you kill you?
Cows or other animals for that matter don't only think about eating, drinking or shitting. They are social animals, they form conections with others, they like to have fun as we do. Go to a slaughter house and see how the cows behave, they know what's going on and they want to run.
The fact that these animals have diferent kind of intelligence doesn't mean they aren't aware of their own existence.
The fact of the matter is, we have a choice. We can unnecesarrily kill billions of animals or we don't. We don't have to eat them for survival, we do because we like their taste.
There's nothing ethical about putting your pleasure over the life of someone else.
What's more important at the end of the day? Your health or the animals health? That same animal will prey on other animals and sometimes humans in the wild. It's optimal for health.
Also, the definition of murder is to kill another human. Raising a healthy animal on pasture and grass / organic feed and then killing it for food is not murder, that's basic survival.
You should check out channels like "The Natural Human Diet" and "Sv3rige" (despite the second channel's other sometimes controversial views) or check out books like "We Want To Live" by Aajonus Vonderplanitz or "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston A Price. It will reveal a lot about our true ancestry including numerous amounts of anecdotal and early 1900's photographic evidence regarding them living healthy and disease free. All the best on your journey!
@@HowardJonesOfficial Good thing we don't have to choose between health and killing. Are you saying that farmed animals like cows, pigs and chicken will prey on other animals? Even if it was true we can apply same logic to justify killing humans.
Sv3rige is mentally ill anti scientific lunatic that knows almost nothing about nutrition and was destroyed in plenty of debates. Weston A. Price did some bogus research as a dentist, but other that that, terrible. You should real look at real research, plenty to choose from.
@@HowardJonesOfficial You're not placing the animals health over yours it's very well studied that a plant based diet is healthy for every stage of your life. There's a lot top tier athletes like Kendrick Ferris, Patrik Babouiman, Nimai Delgado among many other who thrive in a plant based diet.
Dude that's not survival. You're going to a supermarket to choose what to eat. You're not a native in the middle of a jungle, you have a choice.
Sv3rige is a joke, he eats raw meat and has some very fucking crazy takes that aren't founded on science, some of them are even fucking racists.
Dude, i am no vegan. I grew up around farm animals. Pigs are super intelligent. The idea of killing and eating them has always been unsettling to me. They get bored easily, they need stimulation, and they also have very long memories. It’s hard to reconcile the way they are treated in industrial farms.
For the record I do eat pork from locally sourced responsible farms. But I completely agree that the average person doesn’t understand how intelligent and charismatic pigs are.
@@MMA_Jackal Responsibly killed, "how nice", would you accept the same or would you rather not be killed?
You're weak, we have been slaughtering intelligent beings since the dawn of time.
@@bossman8066 Go back to sleep, good lad.
I hate when people start an argument with "dude"
I think what’s more important is how cruel are the farms? Like those factory farms that give animals in there 0 space to move and end their life in the worst way? And also if being vegans means better for the environment, which I don’t know the answer to that.
Lol if you want it blunt. It's about who has the biggest sticks and who can swing them hardest
my understanding is that your point about the factory farms also has a big role in the environment aspect as well.
Please keep making these videos, covering these major talking points & dissect them with your philosophy. Love seeing your videos on my timeline; may Allah keep you steadfast 🤲🏾
Reading the comments really seems like many misunderstood his position. Some people go outright and judge Firas's MMA background to dismiss his ability to solve metaphysical problems. Firas is before a philosopher and his MMA accomplishments are just a byproduct of his quest for self improvement and growth, which encompasses physical and spiritual (he holds a bachelor in philosophy and is well versed in the field). He argues that dogmatic Jainism can even go as far as protecting the lives of insects and perhaps bacteria. It is well established that farming requires extermination of insects; and they are living beings. Additionally, he argues that one could establish the case for plants being "conscious beings". Not that he holds that opinion, but he suggests that being vegan only draws the line with animals; whereas overlooking the lives of insects and bacteria can propose a moral inconsistency. He is practical in his approaches and simply accepts the idea that human life requires sacrifice, and he simply moves the moral line one step above, to the level of farm animals. He opposes the sacrifice of animals that have superior intelligence. He comes from a position where human lives are superior to anything else on earth and that sacrificing plants, insects and animals are just the harsh reality of preserving the quality of human life. Veganism cannot be held to an absolute standard; it is not applicable for all place and time. Anthropological reality requires that meat consumption is the only solution for nomadic tribes-Imagine being a nomad and having to grow crops in harsh arid climate, or having to carry 100 kgs of cabbage during the displacement instead of dried animal flesh that surpasses the caloric value of cabbages, while only weighing 1/10th of cabbages. Perhaps there aren't much nomads left, but the need to adopt such lifestyle could arise again. Therefore, the principles of veganism cannot be withheld at an absolute value, therefore veganism cannot be considered as an objective moral truth.
Meat is specifically how we even became what we are as it carried more calories, meaning energy for us to develop. Without it we wouldn't be where we are. It's more nutritionally and calorically dense. It's also more of a privilege in a developed society or at the very least a society without much livestock and use plants cause it's all they have
It is impossible for there not to be any harm/sacrifice but vegans want to minimise that by minimising the suffering and rights violations of sentient beings. You only obtain a right to life (like humans have a right to life) if a being is sentient.
Plants and Bacteria:
In order to have sentience you must have a nervous system, vegans value sentience as a right. Just because certain 'life' react a certain way to a stimulus does not necessarily mean they are conscious (so plants and bacteria are irrelevant)
(Sentience means having a subjective experience)
Insect Death:
1. You can view the insect deaths as a form of defending your own rights (the right of food, hence the right of life)
2. There are less insect deaths per calory if the world were vegan (requires some math)
Superior Intelligence:
If you oppose the 'sacrifice' of animals that have superior intelligence, is that a subjective threshold? If so then it would mean that (hypotactically) if much more intelligent/superior xenomorphs came to Earth and wanted to eat humans, you would have to allow for that because humans do not meet the threshold for superior intelligence for them.
If it is objective, then what is it about a human such that if that human had the same intelligence as a chicken would justify killing the chicken over the human for food?
Farm animals are pretty smart, in fact a pig is smarter than dogs and cats.
Practicality:
Humans have been proven by science to be fully capable of adopting a plant-based lifestyle, as also evident with real life examples.
It is also cheaper and if the world was vegan there would be more food for everyone.
The future seems to be getting better for vegan options and food as more people/businesses are becoming vegan.
It is a hard diet to transition to, but it's worth it for the animals.
Why Veganism Is Important:
People are morally inconsistent all the time and it does not matter because usually the repercussions are not as significant or you may not even directly contribute to it. However, considering billions of innocent farm animals are killed and tortured each year since the existence of animal agriculture, the same animals which have a great capacity for a subjective experience that we can easily recognise, it is far too big of a problem to simply let go, again these animals are more than just food, they are innocent sentient beings that deserve to live.
So hopefully I covered all the points he made. There are some interesting moral consequences that are vegan but seemingly go against veganism, if you want to know what they are let me know.
You and Firas have understood veganism wrong.
Veganism isn't about not killing, it's about not causing suffering, or causing as little suffering as possible.
"he argues that one could establish the case for plants being "conscious beings""
But that's not true. Plants can't be considered sentient by definition, according to science.
If we go by the definition of veganism, these nomads don't have to be vegan. If it's not possible for you to survive on a vegan lifestyle, then it's not a moral obligation. However, most people in the comment section here do have the ability to live on a vegan lifestyle.
@@PauIdenino
"AcCoRdInG To ScIeNcE"
Gtfoh you pseudo intellectual, kids nowadays just throw in the science in their garbage arguments and expect people to shut up from shock.
If veganism is minimizing suffering, then spreading veganism can cause more suffering, people being prohibited from benefiting and enjoying their meat is a form of suffering, and I hope you'd agree that human suffer is more concerning then animal suffering, but I know you and other vegans don't agree, because most vegans don't give a f%$# about the children and humans suffering all around the world because of hunger, drought and unjust wars, they're just obsessed with animals, they put themselves on top of the chain, then animals after that then comes the other people, vegans are immoral cultists trying to play the moral high ground.
@@PauIdenino
And I just had a second read of your comment, what do you mean that veganism isn't about killing but about not causing suffering? Killing is causing suffering, so it has all to do about it stop contradicting yourself in a single sentence at least wait until the end of your comment.
About that part on pig's IQ, my mom, aunts, uncles had a pet pig back in the days in Cambodia and they used to play with it all the time. She recalled it being very smart, almost like playing with another child. They would ride it, play with it etc and when it would need to go take a dump, it would go hide, do it's thing and come back to play. I guess that would display a form of shyness or manner of some sort. Unfortunately my grandma needed money so she sold it to some dude in the market and they eventually killed it to sell meat. My mom was devastated and couldn't stop crying. She told me it was as if they killed a friend.
I don't eat pork due to religious reasons but I still eat meat just like everyone else. It's just a fact of life we need to accept.
Sentient beings, capable of suffering because of their own pain or the pain of others, deserve to live and be left alone. Simple as that. We don't have to eat them, which makes torturing and killing them wrong. Plants and bacteria are not sentient. Let actual neuroscientists talk about what the minds of animals are capable of.
I believe there are many holes in your arguments, but why do you measure what we should eat by their intelligence? Is the ability to feel pain not a far better measuring stick?
Plants also feel pain
@@faridfc007 I don't think plants feel pain. Why do you think so?
@@faridfc007 There is no scientific evidence to support that claim
Look it up
Look it up
I will try to respond in order how arguments were presented.
Why insects life not important? It is important. No reason to needlessly kill insects, they can have moral value.
Killing bacteria isn't a problem, bacteria is neither animal nor sentient. So being a bacteria, plant, rock, PC isn't being something, but being human, dog, cat, cow, pig, chicken, insect is being someone. As someone you wouldn't want to be needlessly killed.
Killing countless insects is not only unintentional, but also that could lead us to argument that we need better farming practice instead of killing whoever we want to kill. If we think that all deaths are the same we could say that driving a car, building buildings etc. is immoral, it causes death every year so we should stop it. That is not the position most rational people hold, we accept the risks and pay attention to intention.
Plants are not sentient and they don't feel pain or pleasure, plants avoid some stimulus and reach other stimulus.
You wouldn't eat a dog because you have relationship with a dog, that could justify eating dogs that you don't own and human beings that you don't have relationship with.
You mentioned intelligence and mind, if we apply this to human context then we would justify killing babies or at least severally intellectually disabled people.
Other than that you underestimate some animal abilities, animals do have memory and they are most likely do think they will think forever instinctually. Cows can think way more beyond mentioned survival instincts, but even if your statement was true, we could justify killing humans that just peacefully eat, sleep and don't do much.
You also mentioned talking, like not being able to talk somehow takes away your right to live. If so, we could justify killing mute people, babies and maybe even people that speak foreign languages that we can't understand.
So basically by applying your principals logically you are holding absurd position to mass murder some humans. When we simply don't have to do that and we wouldn't want to be in those animals place.
reading your comment as I consume this Elk steak. Thx for the info buddy.
@@daemondost7168 I doubt you comprehend it, but maybe you do. I imagine there are people that comment about the bombs that they are building under unibomber related videos. Weird people...
@@meateaterscringe9863 the unibomber was a vegan, food (pun intended) for thought.
@@daemondost7168 Well from this type of comment level I am not surprised you are making things up.
@@meateaterscringe9863 every time i see ur comment under this video. i will personally slaughter a chicken.
Hi,
- I'm vegan and I do know that I'm killing insects on my diet but it is necessary for me to eat vegetables to survive. If you care so much about insects being vegan is the best way to minimise insects deaths since the animals we farm eat a large amount of vegetables (responsible for insects crop deaths) before being slaughtered.
- plants don't have a nervous system nor a brain and so far scientists haven't been able to establish if plants feel pain or not (but again if you care about plants being vegan is the best solution since as I said the animals we eat spend all their lives eating a lot of plants so you're killing more plants on an omnivore diet)
- finally you should study more about chickens and cows, they're actually very intelligent but it doesn't really matter, they're able to feel pain like us and inflicting them so much suffering is unecessary. And if intelligence is so much important for you, is it ok to kill and eat a human being that has the intelligence of a one year old baby ? After all they are even less intelligent than a chicken.
Think about veganism my friend 👍
Facts
Exactly!! Considering the % of vegans in the world, this comments section is fairly well balanced… Which speaks quite highly of the following you’ve got here Frías, more than your words and logic in this video
It’s not just insects that are killed harvesting crops. Millions of deer, ground hogs, porcupines, raccoons, various ground nesting birds like Turkey ect… are all literally ripped apart every day by combines harvesting crops.
@@MMA_Jackal switching to a plant based diet will decrease the number of these animals being ripped apart. Individually things can be done, such as backyard vegetable garden for instance. And in order to find solutions about these issues I think that a more vegan society and more vegans individuals in general would help to collectively aim towards changes in our current food production to decrease crop deaths
Why is the metric by which you judge pain the immune system and brain. Can you not imagine there are other ways of being conscious and feeling. Go beyond the mind and emotions and you’ll see all of it is conscious and connected. Life eats life it sucks but is beautiful. I don’t eat meat by the way myself and believe that animals cruelty definitely is unnecessary but the moral argument for veganism doesn’t stand up and neither does the moral argument for-eating meat stand up .
Lot of speculation here regarding how smart chickens and cows are - I think they’re probably smarter than we give them credit for; however, they are not chimpanzees. So, if it’s entirely based on intelligence you’d eat unintelligent humans? I didn’t think so. I’m pescatarian and use the same rationale, but I know the fish I eat surely feel pain.
one thing to point out is cows are really smart animals, in Hinduism cows are treated as mothers, you should see more in depth into it
joseph campbell says this is an essential question to awakening consciousness; the reality that life feeds on life. we can't avoid it but we can do it well.
I believe making an effort to lower meat intake as much as possible is a moral obligation
These are childish arguments. Plants are alive too and it is the same as killing animals? It is like saying “your white lies are bad too, so daily murder I’m committing is ok”. However, I love your pondering on various topics! Always a pleasure to listen 🙏🏻
Define life
@Enemy Watch 😂
Time to run “Name the trait”
he did. It was IQ. But he wont eat dumber humans so hes a hypocrite
Wow, really…?! Okay, so plants have awareness and feelings because they grow around things but animals can’t remember their past or imagine a future because….. Firas said so, some humans assume it and any indication of them being super intelligent and remembering past events is just instinct…?!
Nothing like a good, solid omnivorous beings consistent logic
Those two assumptions were quite strong and seemed baseless to me. I think the first one is wrong as interaction with the environment does not necessarily entail any kind of subjective experience (a rock falling, a dead leaf moving with the wind, a robot evading obstacles, etc), and specifically avoidance of some stimulus is generally not considered to entail subjective perception.
But I don't think those assumptions were particularly central to his point of view, that he elaborates in the second half of the video. In fact, this is not a dissertation but a youtube video (I assume a fragment of some podcast), and here the coach is simply explaining his point of view in an informal way. So I was expecting some exaggerations, imperfect or incorrect reasoning.
Aside from those specific comments (which i understand given the context), I believe I agree with the rest of what he says. As I understand it, he recognizes the complexity of the question (to put it simply ¿what am i allowed to kill, or more generally exploit for my survival?) - to which different people give different answers (vegans have their own, for example) - and rejects simple answers. He considers a measure that we could refer to as intelligence/consciousness, and answers the question individually for each case using this measure as one instrument of evaluation (but maybe not the only one, because for example he also considers the concept of "relation" to contribute to the decision in a more subjective, person-dependent way - e.g. the relation of my neighbor's dog with my neighbor is not the same as with me).
This general idea, that right to kill is dependent on the "quality of consciousness" of the thing being killed, I agree with. And I also think it's praiseworthy that the evaluation of this consciousness is made taking into account the available evidence (the google search). The consequence - that different people could make different decisions about what deserves not being eaten - seems also reasonable to me.
Of course there are some details that are left unattended in this line of thought, and it is similar to the standard, natural, traditional way of thinking about it. But it is not generally flawed or incorrect.
He did not assert that plants have feelings or awareness. It seems that he means that one could make the case for plants having some level of "consciousness", as they try to avoid pain & grow around the obstacles. As such, one could make the case for not eating plants. Their position would have just as much basis as vegans. Point is, human life requires sacrifice, and our choices are based on where we draw the line. Vegans draw the line at the animal level, but others could draw the line at the plant level. His position is that you shouldn't eat anything that has an IQ higher than cats, dogs, pigs, etc. This is where he draws his line. Others are free to move it a step further up.
Hi Firas, If you see this please reply. Taming dog at home is considered haram, but you said you have had pet dogs. Is there something i don't know about?
I think a cool discussion with Dr.Avi or Issac from askyourself would be cool about Veganism
I love all animals, but cow is definitely the tastiest.
I had steak today
Took him exactly 3 seconds to mention the crop deaths fallacy, well done.
Are you suggesting that animals aren’t killed in the process of planting large mono crops?
@@MMA_Jackal most animals don’t just stick around to get killed… Secondly, the majority of monoculture crops in the world are there to feed livestock as most are grain fed, it’s a really, really dumb argument… The leading cause of deforestation is cattle industry practices. The goal is to reduce suffering and harm as much as practicably possible, not live in fantasy land. Things die when we drive and even walk down the street. We are trying to be better, fair, compassionate humans instead of intentionally ignorant selfish ones. We humans also don’t typically just eat dead rotting flesh of innocent beings so if you’re eating both, then you’re doing twice as much damage supporting this cruel and harmful industry… That in turn is slowly killing you
It took me all of 45 seconds to dislike this… How can such intelligent humans I respect in so many way, say such dumb things I have zero respect for
@@IAmZanderStewart It really is quite amazing.
Funny how you didn't explain the fallacy!
And to continue about why I wouldn't want to kill an animal for indulgence.. I think it is also important to note that animals do feel. Whether or not they can reflect about their pain and lament or what not is not the point. If you look at an animal getting killed, it isn't a pleasing thing to see. It has no aesthetic value and (to me) it does not feel good. I think it is an important point to contemplate that they do feel the pain that is inflicted on them as much as they can feel when they are about to be slaughtered (at least that is what some of the footage from slaughterhouses suggests).
Unfortunately, coach completely missed the point of veganism. Noone is claiming that veganism is perfect. The point of veganism is to MINIMISE harm, and not eliminate it. Everyone is aware of the harm we as humans cause to nature just through our existence.
As for his point on plants being living beings, livestock consume way more plants than a human does, so by eating animals, you are consuming more plants as well, which defeats your own argument of wanting to harm plants lesser.
This is ofcourse, ignoring the torture inflicted on livestock in factory farms. A simple search will enlighten you on the abhorrent things millions of innocent animals go through, which insects or plants don't.
Therefore, the path of causing least harm to the natural world (other than killing yourself) would be to MINIMISE (because it is impossible to completely avoid) your reliance on animals. Do as much as you can, you do not have to be idealistic.
animals eat plants that we don't consume(I don't think you can eat hay or grass) and most people don't agree with factory farming, id rather eat meat from a local farm that treat their animals well.
"the path of causing least harm to the natural world (other than killing yourself)", the natural world is based on harm, every single animal eats something else to survive and some are there just to be eaten.
you know when you cultivate plants, a lot of insects die. He's just saying why are they less important than farm animals. Plants also experience pain which makes them move their roots(According to him I didn't research this), why condemn one type suffering while also causing another type?
Look in the end, if you're vegan good for you , just don't make it seem you're morally better
@@ITzSa3d domestication is torture. Veganism isn't about me or other vegans, it's about minimising suffering
Your argument is that insects die from crop cultivation. My argument is that farm animals consume more than 3x the crop produce than humans do. By not consuming animals, you are saving so many insects. Noone claims that eating farmed plants is harmless, but it is without doubt the path that causes the least harm
@@DivyenduKashyap but they eat the part of the plants that don't get eaten like the stems.
@@DivyenduKashyap so having a pet is torture?
I respect what ever diet makes you feel good. For me? I have studied Jits since 1997 and have always maintained great health and physical fitness. However, I have been vegan, omnivore, and carnivore and I can tell you my body thrives off of red meat. My endurance, flexibility, mental clarity, and strength so much better that I will never return to eating veggies.
interesting what does your diet consist of ?
@@abduiiahai-hashimi7489 My diet is very basic. I eat once or twice a day, nothing but red meat (bison, beef, pork, deer, and elk) , eggs (mostly raw) A2 Milk, salt, butter, liver, bone marrow, raw cheese, ghee, tallow, and coffee. I haven't had a single vegetable in 4.5 years. No seed oils of any kind, no bread, no sugar, and only on very rare occasions will I have some blueberries, and only if they are presented to me.
To each their own but veggies are good for you.
@@bman6065 I have read enough about Glyphosate to know that its toxic and in almost every store bought vegetable. I also know that it has been proven to destroy cells, pass through the blood brain barrier, attack the nervous system, and be a leading cause of decay for environmental health. But like you said "to each their own"
When your mind and body are at a 10, life is easy
my rule of thumb is this: i should be aware of what it takes to produce my food. that can include watching the actual killing of the animal, plant, etc, or other means, but then from there, it's my decision as to whether i will consume that food. i continue to eat the meat but i'm not taking it for granted that life had to be taken away for me to eat.
to his point about pigs i think if people were seeing the killing of certain animals it would make them have better understanding over which to eat or not eat.
Excellent podcast akhi
There are also tons of animals killed and injured in the process of harvesting grains and preparing fields for crops. I can understand and respect that people don't want to harm animals, but I don't agree with the self-righteousness of many vegans.
What you are saying about cows isn't exactly true. Cows can actually cry when for example something happens to someone in the family of the farmer. Or when their child gets taken away. I will say honestly what you are saying is quite on par with what Ramana Maharshi said. For me personally, I don't eat meat because I wouldn't want to kill an animal for indulgence. There is plenty good stuff in the plant world, especially fruits. To me it is important to remember that humans are in a way the pinacle of evolution (yet at the same time the very downfall) so we should strive to protect life when we can. Ultimately are we here only to survive or to live/strive?
1:51 Many people are going to say "Hey, I perfected that!"
Food is important for biological reasons but also for cultural reasons but it seems now that food and specifically diets have become the new cultural identity. You dont eat to live or because you enjoy it but because it becomes a cause, a new identity. Instead of balance and and a goal of getting all the necessary nutrients to make our bodies as efficient as possible, what we eat becomes a statement of who we are. Dietary virtue signaling.
Louis Giordano (Loutrition) who worked with Jon Jones, BJ, Jose Torres says that you always try to get the most nutrients as 'efficiently as possible' in your meals as an athlete but especially in a sport where you are cutting weight during canmp and I'd love to hear more your various approaches to diet especially when dealing with drastic weight cuts.
Also, le beau Georges is now an anti-vegan (I'm sure those on the "other team" must be aghast) and follows a diet guru who claims that vegetables are bad for you. So definitely would like your opinion of benefits but also disadvantages of this extreme meat, organs, fruit diet as it pertains to athletes especially fighters.
Middle ground fallacy..
Animal products are not health foods. They disrupt hormone regulation, feed inflammation, decrease recovery, and encourage habituation (addiction).
It's like talking about the cognitive benefits of smoking cigarettes 🤦. You refuse to accept information right in front of your face and keep looking for good news about your bad habit, or look for some uniformed person or bad actor to tell you want you want to hear.
Most of what you are talking about is purely ego based stuff...
Regardless of your ambitions- it's unethical to use animals for them..
It's really not hard to understand.. you just have to ignore it.
@@Vscustomprinting why is it unethical to eat animals? Is it also unethical for them to eat each other? People get nutrient deficiencies from just eating vegetables. They also get deficiencies from just eating animals. There is always a balance in everything.
@@0b3ryn29 Animals are sentient, we wouldn't want to be killed as sentient beings. So basically animal rights are just logical extension of human rights. People can get nutrient deficiencies from all sort of different ways of eating, but you can get all essential nutrients without eating animal based products.
@@meateaterscringe9863 not feasible for poor people. They cant afford to get all of their nutrients from just eating plants on a budget. Also, which animals are sentient again? Some animals have ver low intelligence, cant we eat those? What about insects?
Sentient being or not a sentient being. I eat meat and most kinds. But I understand that I'm acting indifferently to my own morals. Killing and eating meat is one thing. Industrial meat is wrong on so many levels. I still eat meat in any given restaurant. So I can see the good argument for not eating meat. I can also see activist dieting as ineffective. If it's worth the sacrifice to you I admire your position. If you think you're going to change the world by not eating meat, well... Carry on and stay calm best you can.
All that being said did he imply he eats pork?? It's funny when talking to my older orthodox Jewish friend and whenever he starts complaining about Arab Muslims. I tell him they just need to get together and eat bacon cheeseburgers.
I would also eat any animal that would eat me, regardless of intelligence. Bear, lion, wolf, crocodile, if they would eat me for food then I would have zero problem eating them.
You make a good point. I eat chicken, but I wouldn't eat my pet chicken if I had one. I wouldn't eat my neighbor's chicken (pet or not), because either it's not mine, or I know my neigbor has an attachment to the chicken. That's all there is to it. I think the safest moral line to draw is at humans. Animal's aren't human; they don't (and probably shouldn't) have the same rights as humans. But as humans, we can be fond of tons of things that aren't human. People often conflate that fondness with the fondness we feel for other humans. We should definitely treat animals with kindness (don't just terrorise them for fun) out of respect for fellow living creatures, but ultimately we are human and they just aren't.
Goddamn right. We need more men like you in the west. Our situation is extremely dire
If Joe Rogan was Lebanese, his name would be FIRAS
Facts
Forget about the harm the animals go through. - Animal flesh is too acidic for the human body… And Omnivores (Bears Coyotes Raccoons etc) eat their prey as is. Not us. We have to marinade & satay, cook, season & spice. Then we eat.
Its a circle of life every animal eats each other to live. Humans are just another animal in this food chain plus Allah in the bible told us that we could eat any animal except haram animals like pigs and shellfish
I respect your opinion firas but I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one
For me intelligence isn’t the only deciding factor when judging what is more ethical for us to eat, for me it would be their potential to suffer the plant argument is I suppose valid but I don’t think plants experience near the amount of suffering cows or chickens do.
By this logic it would be similar to say a disabled person or mentally I’ll persons life isn’t as important and would be more morally justifiable to kill given the right reason, which for me isn’t the case
I think for me the argument for veganism isn’t to end suffering it’s to reduce it as much as possible just because we kill insects when farming doesn’t then give us the right to kill millions of cows for meat, at the end of the day the way I see it is two wrongs don’t make a right, the reduction of suffering is always going to be a good thing and that’s something that I can get behind
so because plants dont suffer from pain as much as cows its fine to eat them?
Actually there's studies that show plants react to being cut and can somewhat feel pain. Where do you draw the line then? You gonna praise the sun and use that as energy?
@@madaxwayne plants do not have a nervous system so do not "feel/experience" pain like any other sentient animal. They can have chemical reactions based on being touched or broken but this is hardly an argument for comparing suffering between organisms.
Some animals eat other animals, some eat plants. Some eat everything. That's nature.
Has nothing to do with feelings, just life and death.
Human beings evolved as omnivores. Why?
If we weren't meant to eat meat then why does it taste so good
I'm a meat eater, but common, insects are not sentient beings with a spectrum of emotions, awareness and cannot feel pain, but the cows, pigs, chickens and turkeys we slaughter on a daily basis do experience all of the above. Whether you eat meat or not, you have to come to terms with the demonic level of torture and suffering these animals experience at our factory farms. These farms need to be eradicated, or at the very least they need extreme reformation.
If you are not going to go vegan, checking animal welfare scores when buying meat, buying local meat and reducing your meat intake in general to take on a more "reducetarian" approach is a good alternative.
Maybe before you talk about animals not being intelligent go educate yourself first? Chicken are not intelligent? Just google smart things chicken can do. Learn why animals are sentient, have a consciousness or a soul or whatever you think people have. By eating animals, you are directly asking them to be killed and you can choose to stop this, whereas the insects from crop death is unavoidable. Veganism is about doing the best and most practicably what you can to not harm animals. That’s the line. And since you’re a martial artists, remember that the warrior fights to protect the weak and innocent. The warrior does not violate and kill innocent beings, and this will include sentient animals who actively scream, cry and try to fight or flee when you try to kill them, halal or not don’t matter. They don’t give you permission to kill them.
"The question is not 'can they reason?' nor 'can they talk?' but 'can they suffer?'"
Bentham figured this out back in 1789, you should know better in 2022. Your thinking on this topic is both embarrassing and barbaric.
Big fan of Coach Firas and his views
'why aren't you a vegan' is such a loaded and pretentious question. It assumes that veganism is the default moral position and the best lifestyle choice. We'd also have to agree that killing animal is 'murder'.
It is murder but there's nothing wrong with it. Animals kill each other left and right and some would eat you if they had a chance. Secondly we hunt and farm animals to eat them it's just our smart strategy of sustaining food and yes it can be a little cruel but have you ever seen orcas hunting or killing for fun, what about hyenas?
@@user-id8cl5zd9e murder is a legal concept which is distinct from killing as such. Soldiers aren’t considered murderers for example. So animals eating other animals isn’t really murder because there’s neither animal has personhood. It’s also why eating meat as a human isn’t murder - because animals can’t have political rights.
@@user-id8cl5zd9e It’s not, defintionally
@@user-id8cl5zd9e By your logic we should be allowed to kill humans. Might makes right.
@@nidhishshivashankar4885 yeah actually your right about that
What matters is how one treats animals.
I agree with vegans that animals have feelings and what not but I still eat meat because I believe they were created for human consumption (herbivores)
They were not created and especially not for human consumption. Believing in delusions like that causes a lot of suffering to sentient beings.
@@meateaterscringe9863 eh
I think u mean selectively bred, not created.
In meditation, the fact that the mind can live in the past or the future is actually viewed as a weakness of the human being. In meditation, we're trying to quiet the mind, so that we can live in the now and to free our consciousness. So, is it really a positive or a reason for us to deem worthy of living a being that can live in the past or the future? I say that a being that only lives in the now is probably more advanced and more healthy than one that can live in the past or future. That said, I do agree with everything else that the Coach says, and for those reasons I am also an omnivore. Great video.
So would you be okay with killing a human who has lost their memory?
There's so many fallacies in this video that I don't know where to start...
Yeah if he sticks on the point that there cannot be life without death, he would have a stronger argument. In order to raise crops or even a small garden you will displace animals / kill insects.
He also said he will not kill anything he relates to, like a dog or his cat. Just saying incase you missed that part.
@@sajidhd But does he relate to a random human he doesn't know?
this is one of those situations where someone having talent in one area leads them to believe they have something worthwhile to say about everything…..regardless of there experience, qualifications or ability to finish a thought…..
He has a masters in philosophy
As farid said, firas also has talent in philosophy. He has something worthwhile to say about the morals of killing animals because it is a moral and philosophical issue.
Your statement is based on the assumption that the man hasn't done his homework. His love for philosophy came before his passion for coaching. If anything, it is his love for philosophy that got him to excel in what he does. Ancient Greeks saw a correlation between wrestling and philosophy. Training your body in absence or training your mind is useless, they go hand in hand. The man has a bachelors in Philosophy and has been cross-examined by peers and experts in the field... Before you call him out, you should try getting rid of your prejudice and try humility.
I doubt you are more qualified than him. What are your qualifications?
@@faridfc007 I guess this proves that having a masters in philosophy doesn't mean much then.
I enjoy the philosophy talks instead of BJJ. I love BJJ and MMA but I first knew you from debating rogan on scientific truth. I must have listened to that hour 4 or 5 times
Perhaps the description of domesticated animals as low IQ is applicable. Although no one, or few people, are eating elephants, they are certainly more sentient than a cow. They bury their dead and pay tribute to the bodies and to the bones like humans do.
Pigs are not a special exception. Cows are also similarly intelligent, for example.
I once saw a cow use a straw to drink water from a puddle
Vegans are getting triggered
Logic doesn’t really work in this.. it’s about intent. If we keep human behaviour and intelligence as the criteria for whether it’s permissible to kill an organism, we’re not informed enough to make that decision.
An eagle can see farther and fly higher than a human (without an airplane). Chickens are actually capable of expressing the same love and care that humans do, if a human takes the time to observe them.. they just don’t express it exactly the way humans do. Cows are extremely gentle creatures and also capable of expressing tenderness and love even to humans (if the human takes the time to understand them). Plants and trees are capable of forming their own communities that interact with each other, even having mother trees that look after younger generations (all happening underground through vast networks in the soil). It’s our subjective ignorance that doesn’t allow us to observe or realise these.
I think the only thing that matters is individual intent.. if I eat meat because it’s delicious and not really because I need it, then it’s wrong to kill a life. If I eat it out of necessity because there’s no other options, like, say, in deserts, forests etc, then it’s a “minor” wrong; you can see this with tribal communities.. they genuinely feel and respect the animals they eat, and don’t kill for pleasure or eat it out of greed and gluttony the way most of us do in “civilised” societies.
If a person keeps intent as the criteria, you’ll see him eat less and less meat and more and more fruits, especially in modern societies where we have a plethora of options in supermarkets from all over the world (besides, you honestly do feel better with no meat).
For those who think meat is required for a strong, muscular body, almost all of India’s traditional wrestlers were/are vegetarian. Are they Olympic gold medalists? Not always, but I’d be more than ecstatic to have even half their body and athleticism.
Gorillas can recall their childhood and have photographic memory. But they are never interested in asking questions.
Great conversation, subscribed.
Well Mr.Zahabi you are completely wrong, or current animal products consumption is one of the greatest drivers of high water usage, climate change, health problems, food shortages etc. etc. ... And the plants and insects argument is kinda weird coming from you, first of all plants & insects dont feel pain and fear that animals do feel. I could go on for hours, btw chickens compared to human toddlers are pretty smart so is it okay to kill human children now?????
Honest question
Why is it relevant that animals feel pain and plants and insects don't?
Is their life not valid because they don't feel pain? Why is feeling pain and emotion a criteria for life?
@@cavshub7503 because the capacity to suffer and experience emotions has always been a criteria for sentience. Otherwise we could give truly inanimate objects the same rights as we do to dogs and cats and people "because it looks* like it's 'suffering' " ie. erosion from weather on a building. You gotta have a nervous system in order to count as sentient. And you have to have a nervous system to feel pain. All sentient beings deserve right to life.
So how exactly is water consumption by animals a problem?
If a cow drinks, the water isn't gone. She will pee, exhale.
High water consumption lol. Give me a break. That excuse is about as tight as my exs butthole
@@chikkmagneet mAYBE THEY FEEL PAIN BUT THEY CANT BARK AND CRY LIKE A COW AND DOG. SOUNDS LIKE INSECT HATE FROM U
Bro, what do you mean? It has nothing to do with the animals level of consciousness.... Pigs are looked at as bottom feeders. That's the same reason you don't eat crustaceans.
Not only that, you could totally have a rapport with an animal like a cow or a chicken.... Or even a plant like a tree. ... If you know about American Dad and Stan Smith's tree Dad, then you will know this is true.
A human trying to understand how life being experienced by a plant or an animal could still be meaningful is silly. Obviously they're all having different experiences that are meaningful in some way but to try and say which one is more meaningful than the other is dumb.
The only thing you can do is accept the fact that as you said before some have to die for others to live. ... Then go about living in a way the honors and respects that truth
Having said all that, I do think there is one argument for human beings being the highest level of consciousness and that is that they can facilitate abundance and manifest paradisol states that care for all other beings. .. nature without human stewardship is just a wild overgrown mess left completely to chance.
How about octopus? Super smart!
Why would you take a very reasonable statement which is veganism: “Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose and go directly to something else much more unreasonable and extreme… Most sensible vegans don’t even condone fruitarians because it’s pretty extreme and by most accounts unhealthy and unsustainable long term
Veganism my friend is not extreme, that’s called sound, logical, reasonable compassion… If you find yourself digging around in the extremes to support your flawed arguments against something, you might be on the wrong side of the discussion and already know it… It also has nothing to do with the diet stuff you started waffling on about earlier either
Please put these on Spotify brother
So more people can hear his bad arguments?
This is in line with my thinking, although I have a hunch that a fear of impending death is present in animals of lower IQs, like cows and chickens. I'm not strict about it, but I try to get my animal protein from fish, especially fish like sardines that seem like there's little to no cognition going on. I'm all in on the bugs as food movement. Most of my daily protein comes from tempeh
Why not 100% plant based?
@@meateaterscringe9863 I try to get nutrients from real foods as much as possible rather than vitamins. Omega 3 fatty acids are hard to get on a vegan diet without supplementation, but fish is a rich source of them. Also, I weight train, and while it's possible to get what I need from just plant sources, animal protein is more efficient, and I try to have fish after weight training
@@Proambler It is actually easy to get omega 3 fatty acids, but even if it was hard, you think killing someone instead of taking supplement is better option? Same thing with protein, animal protein isn't more efficient, but even if it was, does getting protein easier justifies killing someone?
@@meateaterscringe9863 You shouldn't misrepresent the science in your advocacy. You can't get Omega 3 DHA fatty acids without supplementation on a vegan diet. And yes, animal protein is more efficiently absorbed by the body. See here: ua-cam.com/video/WW_CCxnPYak/v-deo.html
I said I'd eat fish and bugs. Just to clarify, are you calling bugs "persons"? If not, why not?
@@Proambler WTF is wrong with people. You add word DHA to omega 3 and you think it is the same thing. Just shows that you have no integrity... Secondly, even your new statement is false, because you can get Omega 3 DHA without supplementation.
And no, animals protein is not more efficient, but as I said, even if it was... You should really get a clue how DIASS work, maybe if you are rodent or consume soy beans raw then yes, but is doesn't make any sense in practice and even if it did, doesn't change the moral aspect. And you still dodged the question.
Stop dodging, answer the questions and change your life from this dishonest degeneracy, now you are a complete mess.
I respect you a great deal. However, you nor I or anyone else, can truly “know” what any other being (animal) is thinking. We can only speculate on what cognitive processes are occurring. Again, I respect you, please reevaluate this argument.
Great response
I'm really not vegan but your explanation of how smart the animals are makes it ok to kill them, doesn't make too much sense to me... what, now we butchering based on IQs? I'm more inclined to look at nutrition, god given right and other things like land use...
Hes addressing vegan lifestyle/talking points. They eat vegetables, kill germs etc
He said thats NOT the whole reason but a piece of it
How do I balance alcohol and drugs correctly?
50/50 with a pinch of PED’s on the side and you good to go.
Thats what J.Jones told me.
make a prediction on islam makhachev vs charles oliveira.
Firas is too intelligent to make this poor of an argument
Now I'm curious about your cat. Please show the cat on the next episode.
Paint a red dot on its forehead and hold it in front of a mirror. If it doesn't touch the red dot on itself, then Coach Zahabi should morally be able to kill and eat it, according to his own logic.
Maybe I should think twice about eating the octopus they are pretty intelligent but I do love eating a fish and seafood
i guarantee you all these vegans are 100% ok with abortion
An impossible thing to guarantee. Also to call the positions equivalent is complete nonsense
wouldnt say all but most for sure
you dont hear much of conservative vegans
@@trndvs3323 lol ur one of them
Says enough about your guarantee
We do agree with abortion as long as the phetus is not sentient, otherwise it's not more different than defending the life of a sperm.
Love your content but a lot of these are self defeating arguments to me.
When you've found a super smart Muslim. Problem is coach you leave me with even more questions than answers 😂. I have made peace to only pursue knowledge that only has utility. This questions about morality etc are "beyond my pay grade"
Well by that logic you aren't curious enough
@@Xenor999 efficiency. Life is finite
@@seetsamolapo5600What if it's not ?
@@medsed1133 Lol you have the secret to immortality?
1:51 truth by the coach
Idk i met some pretty cool salads
you main argument is.... why isn't an insects life important? facepalm hard here my guy
With all due respect Firas, U’r very wrong when it comes to ur understanding of animal intelligence, awareness, feelings, emotions, memory, and their attachments to their families!
The lengths someone will wax on, to avoid a moral truth they haven't been caught red handed with, is incredible. I eat meat, I don't eat so much that I feel bad about it. I'm currently comfortable with the level of selfishness I exhibit (on the subject)
If we draw moral basis from feelings then we can justify almost everything as long as we don't feel guilt. Most of the serial killers would happily kill people and this system would give them right to do so.
@@meateaterscringe9863 yea, but what about ants and what about great apes... is a scale for measurement, not a contributing concept that defines "the responsible" practice.
@@Geist452 Depends what trait you measure. If you just randomly name specie that is like naming other random arbitrary trait.
@@meateaterscringe9863ant to ape would be an illustration of sentience.
the collateral you were referring to
@@Geist452 Not sure what you are talking about, to be honest. Try to be as clear as possible.
Veganism is only capable of being followed in a 1st-world society that has extensive nutritional supplementation. Vitamin B12 is an essential micronutrient that is only found naturally in meat, in quantities necessary for supporting bodily functions. In countries without this array of nutritional support, they must consume meat. Ergo, humans evolved to consume meat, as it provides an essential micronutrient, as well as a great deal of high-quality nutrients. Some of the practices in making meat accessible for mass-consumption are reprehensible, but you also see these nuts (vegans) go after hunters that eat meat and do so in the least traumatic way for an animal. We are predators, so it's always humorous to note that vegans can only adhere to this lifestyle with the assistance of the same structures that they often criticize.
Most people are deficient in b12 no matter the diet
Most people here are from societies where they are capable of following a vegan diet. Nobody is telling people who simply can't be vegan due to their circumstances, to be vegan.
B12 is found naturally in the soil. Farm animals get supplemented B12 because they don't naturally get enough of it.
Meat provides nutrients that you can get from plant sources, without the saturated fat and cholesterol.
@@PauIdenino The advent of industrial farming practices drastically lowered the amount of b12 in soil. That’s the reason farm animals have to supplement b12. Historically, that wasn’t an issue and b12 was available in quantities that supported bodily functions and eating meat the only way to get sufficient amounts of b12. Ergo, humans evolved to consume meat, as it provides a necessary nutrient that wasn’t found in other sources of nutrition, prior to the rise of pesticides and herbicides.
@@Ambusher1st As you said, farm animals have to supplement b12. So why use the animal as a middle man and pretend you're getting b12 "naturally", when you can just supplement it straight without causing harm to animals, while still getting all the nutrients you need from plant sources?
The fact that meat contains necessary nutrients that weren't found in other sources shouldn't matter in today's world, as we can get those nutrients from other sources now.
@@PauIdenino You’re making an argument against something I never asserted. You’re just arguing to argue, at this point. The modern world is a luxury, and it has allowed those that would have been selected against to proliferate unbound.
Cows also have the intelligence of a three year old child.
Don't be greedy, and ull be all good
4:10 bruh
Are you Jewish Mr Zahabi?
I’d love to smoke a jay with Coach Firas 😂😂😂
after sport and a good meal
What if I had brain damage, would it be o.k. to eat me?
Dogs clearly remember the past though. It looks like that at least
Chickens aren't that stupid either. They know who feeds them and who doesn't. They recognize when someone from their flock is gone. Etc.
What if it was a very dumb human? Or a human with a language you'd never heard?
dojokavic #1
isnt that just a superiority complex... treating others based on their "rank" in society
Pigs are so smart you can shoot a pigs friend who's a foot away and that brilliant pig will not stop eating or move at all, give me a break a stop repeating crap you hear, pigs aren't as smart as 7 year olds, unbelievable.
that’s absolutely not true at all
Can't conquer a kingdom on soy.
Neither with heart disease
dojokavic #1
@@kimborampage Zulu warrior power!
Neither with meat. Starch is the fuel of civilisation.
Watch Gamechangers, it will change your mind.
Ummm sugar isn't more addictive than cocaine lol
it is for rats but i dont know if a similar study has been done on humans
Do you eat more sugar or more cocaine daily? Checkmate 😂
It is.
@@buridah328 Define addictive.
Hehe, it's a joke replicating what seems to be your preferred general pattern to try refuting some argument de-essentializing some central concept of it. Just share some reference to a study that concludes that sugar is more addictive than cocaine in humans. It will, in fact, give an operative definition of "addictive".
@@sergiosanchez7935 talk numbers. Obesity / Cocaine addiction. One far outnumbers the other.
it doesn't have to be about animal death but about preventing animal suffering. Also, do you eat octopus (calamari) cause they real smart
😆 if you boil water, those bacteria have a right to live, dude.... If we all die soon I bet I won't be surprised while I'm dying 😃
What about raising a child on a vegan diet (from birth) ? Can you actually do that ? Some have tried, and ended up in prison.
People in your country end up in prison for stealing to feed their families or having the wrong non-big pharama approved drug in their position. Someone being in jail is not evidence of them doing anything morally wrong.
A lot of people have killed their children on an omnivorous diet aswell.
The people who have killed their children due to a "vegan" diet, were actually not feeding their children enough nutrients.
They didn't die because they were on a "vegan" diet, they died because they didn't get enough food.
This was my superchat! I was not satisfied with the answer given coach!!
Lol why not
Any gardening and farming crops kills animals dummy
You said to balance alcohol and exercise at 1:53, haha. I think you meant diet. But I agree with you. Veganism is not morally superior. Morality is defined by God. And he gave us animals for food.
That’s a good way to get out of an argument.
"because I say so" isnt a valid justification
@@kimborampage
what argument? If it's a moral argument, then God sets morality, end of story.
If you wanna talk about science, then according to biology, our bodies are made to be omnivorous.
either way there's no argument for veganism other than an emotional one.
@@moatef1586 I think gods morality says that killing animals is wrong. So you’re wrong
You would have to prove god existence and that your presented morality is somehow correct. If we use the same logic I can claim that my god said that killing people named Tracy is moral. Doesn't seem like a strong argument with zero evidence of moral objectivity.
I'm pleasantly surprised that the majority of the comments seem to be pro-vegan, or in other words, intelligent.
Nice to see pro-vegans in this community. 🌱👍
Way to flatter yourself, but veganism isn't "intelligent" in any way. The terms "brainwashed" and "programmed" come to mind, though.
@@johnp7739 It's more intelligent to avoid hurting animals needlessly than it is to needlesly hurt them .😊🌱
@@PauIdenino the worlds smallest violin
@@PauIdenino what was the turning point that made you go vegan
@@liamfoo09 Realizing what the animal industry is and that I don't need to eat animal products to thrive.
Last time I asked you, you rationalized killing animals by saying "what about rats tho"..
But that ignored the fact that human activity attracts rat..
There's no valid arguments against veganism.. it's frustrating, but that's life.
Their are many arguments against veganism
😂😂😂
@@MrAwrsomeness bad ones
veganism itself results in the death of animals
so its between killing animals for food or killing animals indirectly by destroying their habitats and food sources
@@madaxwayne false equivalency... Just give it up..
You are reactant to being told "no".. that's it.
You'll make up any rationalization because you simply don't want to take no for answer.. it's the same problem with human slavery- people refuse to take "no" for an answer ..
By your standards, the very words that came from your mouth, you could by logical extension eat a human who is as dumb as a chicken, unaware of their surroundings because you don’t have a relationship with them…
If not, why not?
Logic 101 by Firas Zahabi 2022
🙄😂😳😂
My guess is, speciesism.
He returns to the intelligence argument forgetting some humans are not able to think in to the future or recall the past…. Mmmmm, human burgers for lunch Firas 🤷🏽😂
Might equals right, caveman mentality
@@IAmZanderStewart The funniest thing wasn't even this, it was when he said vegans are murdering plants and that plants are important and intelligent and then he went on to say he would happily kill chickens because they have a low IQ. Self awareness is non-existent.
@@IAmZanderStewart oh yeah we all are cavemen and u sir are the morally superior and intellectual genius. now go get me a kfc chicken bucket.
What about sea creatures that are very intelligent, like dolphins and orcas etc...
Intelligence is subjective I guess
@@buridah328Even if it is, the question is still valid for Mr.Zahabi.
If his sole criteria is intelligence that determines what can be killed/eaten and what not. Then I'm curious what about dolphins which are similar to pigs intelligently.
@@thesource6673 the underlying theme of life is: survival of the fittest. You can apply that rule to everything, from nutrition to geopolitics.
@@buridah328 He is addressing it from a moral point of view. That is why I was curious to know how he navigates around the previous question. Knowing that he is muslim, he doesn't apply survival of the fittest as a moral value.
@@thesource6673 Muslims follow the teachings of the Quran and Hadith. Both of which make no mention of veganism. Having said that, it’s ultimately a choice. My Muslim friend is vegan (plant based).