I wanted a couple of non-DI units so I picked up a BRN-180 in a carbine and one shorty Boi in a couple of popular flavors. The BRN180 is sold as a stand-alone upper to allow pinning to a milspec AR lower. It can also be used on Brownell's own BRN180 lowers - the retro version and the 'M' or modern version. Both have integrated picatinny attachment points for stocks or braces. They also have slightly different approaches to detent pin assemblies and roll-pin usage... but are relatively easy to build up compared to traditional AR lowers. The Jakl wasn't available yet when I acquired my BRN180'S. The two main complaints I've heard about those are weight and spec-related issues on the top Pic rail. Good video. Interesting format.
I’m 1 minute in and I spent so much time researching these 2. I went with the Brn-180, it’s made my Primary weapon systems who are elite, it’s also much lighter than the jakyl, I think the value is much better when looking at quality of components and then what really sealed the deal was the long term test of the jakyl, after 1k there has been excessive wear and tear. The brn-180 is a modern ar180 which is the father if all good short stroke piston gun with an internal recoil system. I am a lefty so this gun is perfect. I’m running a 13.9” with a p&w nox keymo muzzle device, a strike industries dual folder (not sold on it), I always run a radian ambi safety and I always run both a guiselle maritime bolt catch so I can use my trigger finger and the POF single stage 3.5lb trigger (it is the absolute best single stage, not pretravel, not travel and no over travel, you just wiggle your finger back and forth and it’s runs. The gun bare is only 16.2lbs and I’ve got 1200 rounds with a ab a-10 can on it with the keymo hub adapter. It’s my main rifle and is now my got to gun.
Like all pistons it can get hot, but rail scales will really help, I don’t do mag dumps but tons and tons of bill drills, and 2,2,2’s. Zero gas blow back, as a lefty I’m super sensitive to it.
Of PSA would stop putting carbine profile barrels (thin from chamber to gas block and fat after), and go to something like the BRN and Spear LT (a Hanson profile, consistent taper form chamber to muzzle except for the gas block journal
When you say "more often" are you saying in more platforms or by more professional positions? Your modus ponens is my modus tollens when it comes to platform. There just may not be as many DI "platforms" outside of the AR because the AR does it so well. And, DI is still the king when it comes to professional use, with very noteable exceptions. There has been an attempt to replace military DI M4's with some from of piston for a long time.
It is used often. It is the standard when it comes to rifles in America / other countries outside of the AK world. Yes, there are more piston platforms now, but the average rifle is a DI AR15. In fact, the UK just switched over to a KAC DI rifle just this year, from their previous piston guns. We are still yet to see whether the Sig Spear does in fact get widespread adoption, or go the route of the SCAR.
Mr Redacted, pin and weld that bad boy with the nox keymo it will be 16.1” and you can use the great picstinny stocks from jmac, strike industries, sig, and all the other hundres, I really wanted to run the Zhukov or acr stock but they are plastic and really expensive.
I've owned both the brn was designed and built my pws far superior to anything coming out of palmetto. Jakl is super heavy also that being said has no buffer option not that 556 is a recoil heavy round but it is considerably more uncomfortable to operate. I currently primarily run a pws mk116 and mk111 mod2 long stroke set up with lpvo in combination with a pistol red dot adjustable flat trigger h3 buffer heavy spring and generally run it with my rex can. The total weight of my 16" build with can lights etc is less than 10.5lbs the mk111 is 9.5lb with 1x microprism and light. I never weighed my jakl but if I had to guess outfitted weight was probably 15lbs or so
PWS has a perfect grasp on making lightweight piston (long) systems. MK111 Mod 2 and MK216 are among my favorite items due to that fact alone. I'm eagerly awaiting for PSA to address some of the very valid complaints with the Jakl, mainly weight. there's no reason that they couldn't have off at least 20oz from the 13.7/14/5 Jakl.
Who was your English teacher? I would like to have a word. My goodness. Are you allergic to punctuation? Do you have any idea of the amount of brain torture you inflict? Lol
I have a 13.9 brn. It's light and slim. Sure it gets hot but thats just the way it is. Nothing a glove cant fix. It suppresses great (idk if its true but it somehow sounds quieter than my DI rifle) and the folding jmac stock that i have looks awesome on it. My buddy had a jakl. He didn't love it
Just picked up a jakl 8.5 in an man was it the gun I’ve been looking for ideal for backpack carrry an transport good suppressor host looks so good in all black and folded when stowed, have a Midwest industries folding buffer tube with an sba5 brace literally rock solid on my shoulder
@@redactedllc well the 308 jakl was just teased by psa so as soon as it drops I will be getting one and doing a comparison to the scar and or the spear so stay tuned to my channel for that but I will most def be tuning in for sure to see that
I’ve had my 10.5 Jakl with the F5 Acr style stock and running a polonium k, and Holosun aems on it and it’s a lot of fun. I know there’s been some drama with it recently with a certain UA-camr but mine has been great so far. Btw I just came across your channel earlier and love the gun locker set up just curious if you bought it that way or you kinda built it out yourself I’d like to do something similar.
There's always gotta be drama! Thank you for the compliments on the room. We built in this summer, and it's finally coming together. A little paint, a little lighting, and some conveniently placed sound proofing have gone a long way.
@@ghijkljust bought the mk116 pro that was on sale and discontinue, shoots better than my aero precision but not as good as my adams arms w/adjustable gas block
I have the fm-9 forward charge and I love it. The upper And lower fits together nicely. I run the hell out of it when I do get it out and it has yet to let me down.
I know people who have PWS guns and they are very happy with what they got. So my experience is only second hand. With that, they look very good on paper, and there's plenty of user experiences to follow up with. Some day.
You just earned a new subscriber. Really enjoyable podcast. Have you had any problems with the Jackl? I’ve seen a few other videos where creators have had issues
The only real "issues" I've had thus far with the JAKL are mostly user-generated. Making sure I'm on the right gas setting is one. The other is with reassembly after cleaning. The way the bolt carrier drops into the upper isn't as straight forward as other similar firearms, and requires a little finessing. As far as reliability, pretty even keel.
Neither are better options than an AR. I can fine tune an AR. These both leave few options. The BRN has a huge gap where dirt can enter the bolt and trigger assembly. The JAKL is made by PSA, so I don't think it will hold up for the long term and the stocks are not rigid. Both are front heavy and awkward to hold up longer than 30 seconds. The AR has far more options. It's a no-brainer.
There's a reason I did't do a straight comparison to the AR. It can get as nuanced as DI vs gas piston. But that's it's own rabbit whole. Both serve their purpose. The JAKL will likely be around for a while. The BRN-180 isn't a 1 for 1 replacement, but has its own merits.
Bwahaha I used one many years ago and they were silly front-heavy back in the day. Newer models of the LWRC seemed to fix that. It might be time to revisit.
I wanted a couple of non-DI units so I picked up a BRN-180 in a carbine and one shorty Boi in a couple of popular flavors. The BRN180 is sold as a stand-alone upper to allow pinning to a milspec AR lower. It can also be used on Brownell's own BRN180 lowers - the retro version and the 'M' or modern version. Both have integrated picatinny attachment points for stocks or braces. They also have slightly different approaches to detent pin assemblies and roll-pin usage... but are relatively easy to build up compared to traditional AR lowers. The Jakl wasn't available yet when I acquired my BRN180'S. The two main complaints I've heard about those are weight and spec-related issues on the top Pic rail. Good video. Interesting format.
U should try a pws
I’m 1 minute in and I spent so much time researching these 2. I went with the Brn-180, it’s made my Primary weapon systems who are elite, it’s also much lighter than the jakyl, I think the value is much better when looking at quality of components and then what really sealed the deal was the long term test of the jakyl, after 1k there has been excessive wear and tear. The brn-180 is a modern ar180 which is the father if all good short stroke piston gun with an internal recoil system. I am a lefty so this gun is perfect. I’m running a 13.9” with a p&w nox keymo muzzle device, a strike industries dual folder (not sold on it), I always run a radian ambi safety and I always run both a guiselle maritime bolt catch so I can use my trigger finger and the POF single stage 3.5lb trigger (it is the absolute best single stage, not pretravel, not travel and no over travel, you just wiggle your finger back and forth and it’s runs. The gun bare is only 16.2lbs and I’ve got 1200 rounds with a ab a-10 can on it with the keymo hub adapter. It’s my main rifle and is now my got to gun.
Like all pistons it can get hot, but rail scales will really help, I don’t do mag dumps but tons and tons of bill drills, and 2,2,2’s. Zero gas blow back, as a lefty I’m super sensitive to it.
There is a non reciprocating adapter for the BRN but it’s not ambi, the brn is absolutely the perfect option for lefty’s.
The simplicity of the BRN-180 is both its strength and weakness.
Greta video. Can’t believe you only have 2k subscribers. You’ll blow up very soon
Thank you for the kind words.
They arrived at just the right time.
Of PSA would stop putting carbine profile barrels (thin from chamber to gas block and fat after), and go to something like the BRN and Spear LT (a Hanson profile, consistent taper form chamber to muzzle except for the gas block journal
Ooooh yay I have been waiting on this one!
cheers. More to follow.
Was it worth the wait?
I have a 14.5 jakl and I love it! Ideal suppressor host
It shot like a charm suppressed. Albeit, lean toward a lighter can.
Good video. Loving the background, its an Easter egg hunt. Needs a splash of nerdiness however.
Why So Serious
(too soon?)
@@redactedllc Na, Bebop or Destiny stuff. Keep it classy.
Oh you know me so well.
I always thought that if D.I. was so good, why isn't it being used more often? Short-stroke pistons make up my favorite guns. BRN-180 and Vz.58
When you say "more often" are you saying in more platforms or by more professional positions?
Your modus ponens is my modus tollens when it comes to platform. There just may not be as many DI "platforms" outside of the AR because the AR does it so well.
And, DI is still the king when it comes to professional use, with very noteable exceptions. There has been an attempt to replace military DI M4's with some from of piston for a long time.
It is used often. It is the standard when it comes to rifles in America / other countries outside of the AK world. Yes, there are more piston platforms now, but the average rifle is a DI AR15.
In fact, the UK just switched over to a KAC DI rifle just this year, from their previous piston guns. We are still yet to see whether the Sig Spear does in fact get widespread adoption, or go the route of the SCAR.
DI is still king when it comes to general adoption.
Despite the trolls, how many have hope for the SPEAR LT ya think?
Excellent commentary. Is there a transcript available?
Transcript? no. commentary, probably.
Mr Redacted, pin and weld that bad boy with the nox keymo it will be 16.1” and you can use the great picstinny stocks from jmac, strike industries, sig, and all the other hundres, I really wanted to run the Zhukov or acr stock but they are plastic and really expensive.
Plausible option, but it's 11.5 and that's a looong muzzle device. Still messing around with it.
I've owned both the brn was designed and built my pws far superior to anything coming out of palmetto. Jakl is super heavy also that being said has no buffer option not that 556 is a recoil heavy round but it is considerably more uncomfortable to operate. I currently primarily run a pws mk116 and mk111 mod2 long stroke set up with lpvo in combination with a pistol red dot adjustable flat trigger h3 buffer heavy spring and generally run it with my rex can. The total weight of my 16" build with can lights etc is less than 10.5lbs the mk111 is 9.5lb with 1x microprism and light. I never weighed my jakl but if I had to guess outfitted weight was probably 15lbs or so
The BRN180/PWS both seem way nicer than the JAKL. From what I understand PWS manufactures the operating mechanism for the BRN180.
PWS has a perfect grasp on making lightweight piston (long) systems. MK111 Mod 2 and MK216 are among my favorite items due to that fact alone. I'm eagerly awaiting for PSA to address some of the very valid complaints with the Jakl, mainly weight. there's no reason that they couldn't have off at least 20oz from the 13.7/14/5 Jakl.
@@armorers_wrench correct
Who was your English teacher? I would like to have a word. My goodness. Are you allergic to punctuation?
Do you have any idea of the amount of brain torture you inflict? Lol
Cormac McCarthy, apparently.
Great content. Subbed. Considering one or the other for my next pick up. This is great insight
I have a 13.9 brn. It's light and slim. Sure it gets hot but thats just the way it is. Nothing a glove cant fix. It suppresses great (idk if its true but it somehow sounds quieter than my DI rifle) and the folding jmac stock that i have looks awesome on it. My buddy had a jakl. He didn't love it
Nice vid vary detailed I like the ethos
Thanks! More to follow.
@@redactedllc I’ll stay tuned
Also digging the redacted stamp on the side it’s 🔥
"art" only to be appreciated by those who recognize
Just picked up a jakl 8.5 in an man was it the gun I’ve been looking for ideal for backpack carrry an transport good suppressor host looks so good in all black and folded when stowed, have a Midwest industries folding buffer tube with an sba5 brace literally rock solid on my shoulder
How does the 8.5 recoil suppressed? Does your configuration feel front heavy?
It sounds like a good time. A really good one at that.
Sweet vid I been looking forward to this one for sure
Glad you stuck around for it. We had to rebuild that room first.
@@redactedllc I like the new setup !!! And I would love to see the psa ussas vs 308 jakl when that drops that’s a future banger for sure
I would too, the side by side comparisons of 308's is inevitable. Just don't know when.
@@redactedllc well the 308 jakl was just teased by psa so as soon as it drops I will be getting one and doing a comparison to the scar and or the spear so stay tuned to my channel for that but I will most def be tuning in for sure to see that
I’ve had my 10.5 Jakl with the F5 Acr style stock and running a polonium k, and Holosun aems on it and it’s a lot of fun. I know there’s been some drama with it recently with a certain UA-camr but mine has been great so far. Btw I just came across your channel earlier and love the gun locker set up just curious if you bought it that way or you kinda built it out yourself I’d like to do something similar.
There's always gotta be drama!
Thank you for the compliments on the room. We built in this summer, and it's finally coming together. A little paint, a little lighting, and some conveniently placed sound proofing have gone a long way.
I've have been stuck in between these two. I have seen mixed reviews of having either one as a main. I see foxtrot has one similar set up
ultimately neither are a main if you're going for middle of the road. but each has an advantage in a different direction.
Have you looked at the pws uppers? It requires the buffer tube but is a long stroke piston and they make the brn uppers for Brownell’s
@@ghijkljust bought the mk116 pro that was on sale and discontinue, shoots better than my aero precision but not as good as my adams arms w/adjustable gas block
I have the fm-9 forward charge and I love it. The upper And lower fits together nicely. I run the hell out of it when I do get it out and it has yet to let me down.
I know people who have PWS guns and they are very happy with what they got. So my experience is only second hand. With that, they look very good on paper, and there's plenty of user experiences to follow up with.
Some day.
You just earned a new subscriber. Really enjoyable podcast. Have you had any problems with the Jackl? I’ve seen a few other videos where creators have had issues
The only real "issues" I've had thus far with the JAKL are mostly user-generated. Making sure I'm on the right gas setting is one. The other is with reassembly after cleaning. The way the bolt carrier drops into the upper isn't as straight forward as other similar firearms, and requires a little finessing.
As far as reliability, pretty even keel.
Neither are better options than an AR. I can fine tune an AR. These both leave few options.
The BRN has a huge gap where dirt can enter the bolt and trigger assembly. The JAKL is made by PSA, so I don't think it will hold up for the long term and the stocks are not rigid.
Both are front heavy and awkward to hold up longer than 30 seconds.
The AR has far more options.
It's a no-brainer.
There's a reason I did't do a straight comparison to the AR.
It can get as nuanced as DI vs gas piston. But that's it's own rabbit whole.
Both serve their purpose. The JAKL will likely be around for a while. The BRN-180 isn't a 1 for 1 replacement, but has its own merits.
Cool 😎
yup
brn180 has a bolt handle
jakl has a charging handle
Fair enough distinction.
Wrong.. it’s the LWRC A5. It’s the best.. 🤪
Bwahaha I used one many years ago and they were silly front-heavy back in the day. Newer models of the LWRC seemed to fix that. It might be time to revisit.
Do the faxon ARAK
need more ammo, will look into it.