SKIP to: Responsibilities: 0:22 A Day in Life: 2:06 Salary: 4:25 Stress Level: 5:12 Is it Fun?: 7:20 Scope of Promotion: 9:08 Conclusion/ What you should choose: 11:33 Watch Part 1 & Subscribe To Yudi J: ua-cam.com/video/i5sb9ZbLKDo/v-deo.html
Are you sure that project managers make more money than developer or architect? Did you talk to any recruiters in India who are staffing jobs in america? Do you have any facts data personal experience? Do you really know what you're talking about?
I've been a PM and a developer. Great to start off as a dev and grow into a PM career. Very rewarding and pays well too and right now there are plenty of jobs for PMs!
Do you really want to be a project manager or do you not want to be a developer? That's really the question. Being a project manager is an awful job, you are always failing every day, you are always solving problems everyday and many of them you can't fix, is that what you want to do?
Once Kapildev said "Who wants to be a bowler? Everybody wants to be like Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni or Gambhir who are officers,Bowlers are majdoors (workers). Who wants to be a worker? Everybody wants to be an officer," By taking this analogy Project Manager is like officer, Software Developer is like worker Software Developer has more challenges 1.Think towards the solution 2.Dead line(short deadline).3.Limited resource(Limited target board, Limited licence of some needy tools etc.,) 3.Peer review issue,some peer reviewers put their view point on code author view instead of looking memory issue,code improvisation etc,4.Convincing manager I have seen Manager, he wrote code, understand the situation he plans accordingly he convince higher management guys with his technical/development skill(experience) at the same time I have seen manager who does not have technical/development skill(experience) but their communication skill they elviated as manager(but they are good in sales and marketing)unfortunately they are in wrong side, I have seen when there is limited resource for checking hardware interrupt developer wants emulator kind of device that geneartes hardware interrupt or extra target board instead saying actual fact we are having limited resource and allotment of each resource (time and hardware device) across development team gently without starving devloper, some manager are saying use software interrupt unfortuately software interrupt does not support in the Integrated development environment (IDE), as a project manager he should be aware of this,for let it pass on attitide they tell some hi fi technical words, this makes developer life miserable, this is due to lack of knowledge current (rapid change)software and hardware update, if we see 2012 hardware is outdated in 2019 Developer has this advantage because he is in field(very rarely few project manager engaged in field than siiting outside the field).In India service software industry has less technically oriented project manager, than true technical manager. Developer are not getting good scope Baloney talk of manager gets good scope over true technical words since management listen sweet talk than actual fact,for e.g., with limited resource, project manager agrees on shorter deadline period, this look very impressive at the client side,management side(This only in service software sector) unfortunately these kind of managers are entered into product based company. In service software sector developers appraisal are done by manager, if manager aware each devloper work over the period one year then it is well and good unfortunately most of the manager are unaware devloper work, manager know devloper work during appraisal time if devloper present his work details, if manager is less technically oriented then it is horrrible.Now days in India this creepy (service software sector) culture entered into product company.
Personally think PM trumps development, most of the people move out of development after a few years, that doesn't happen in PM. Plus if you think about it, most of the CEOs, or people running the companies were PMs in the early part of their life. And btw if you think PMs do the same thing over and over again, you are obviously not aware of the range of duties you have to perform and I might as well add, managing a team is not as easy as Harnoor describes here - takes a lot out of you and you only get to know how difficult the thing is when you actually do it.
Hey Harsh - totally agree, sounds like you've been a PM dor a while. It's a great career and exposes you to so many stakeholders and therefore opportunities. It leads to very senior roles within the organisation and pays very well.
Hey I have a Bachelor's degree in Civil Engineering and looking to pursue Masters in Project Management to enter into IT industry as Coding is not my cup of tea. What is your opinion of me taking Project Management?
@@rajashekarreddy9933 Anyone can become a project manager, there is a PMP certification that you can do aswell as part of becoming a PM. OR an MBA, personally I think an MBA will ace any Masters in PM, as a lot of the MBAs end up as Project/ Product Managers when they enter the industry post graduation.
Hindu brahmins like the idea of being a project manager because they don't wash their own dishes they don't clean their own floors they don't wash their own toilet, they don't cook their own food, because they don't want to do any work they think being a project manager is easy and they don't have to do any work, they think they want to study computer science but they really don't want to be developers Indians don't want to work they are lazy their head is lazy their brain is lazy
Thankyou very much for this video.. It has been now almost three years since this video has been uploaded and now in 2022 it helped me after putting efforts in one year into development... After watching this video I got clear idea... Project management is not boring as that of software development... Because can't sit for hours in front of computer and no communication 🥲
Its not the comparison between the profile it’s basically who have grown more in US. Its my personal opinion after seeing this video. No offence though. Btw happy to see you guys collaborating 👍
2.5 years is novice in IT, please don't feel offended but it's a sad truth I have been through it but after spending 13 years in IT I can definitely say that. There is a lot more to learn.
Love the video. This is really informative and makes it easy for someone to understands both type of jobs and their pros and cons. Sometimes its hard to make that decision and this video will be really helpful in that case. Can’t wait for the next collaboration, probably something less serious and more fun. 😉 P.S. this video is also fun 😊
Great video fellas! ❤️ I love the cricket analogy at the end! 🏏😃 Great perspective! One thing Harnoor, I would kindly suggest to be careful calling yourself an “experienced” software developer right now. Your videos are awesome, but 1.5 years is pretty Green/Junior in America. Since those have mostly been internships and since you haven’t graduated yet and started working full time, I wouldn’t want you to accidentally give people the wrong impression or confuse them. Hope that makes sense! Great collaboration guys!
Well, you guys have said what you have said. Now let me tell a thing or two !! At entry level in Software Engineering position say 10,000 engineers entered work force in a year(Actually it could be more). 20 years down the line there are say only 250 CTO positions, 250 VP positions, 500 Sr Director positions available at any given time (CTO and VPs are actually lesser). Now at the begining 10,000 Engineer's entered work force, 20 years later only 1000 positions available. Let's add another 1000 positions and make it 2000 positions available. What rest of 8000 engineer will do considering 2000 of them taken up the available positions ?? Think about it and post me a reply 🙂
As u know population increases exponentially, each of those 10000 will be managing a team of 10-20. OR they might start their own firm or just quit and retire. 20 years down the line software engineer might increase to 100,000 or 1,000,000 per year. So u will have 10000 CTO positions. U never know how these people multiply 🤣
That's not the case. There is no relation between population increase and software engineering position. Software Engineering may decline in next 20 years !!! Bots may take over !
Working hard as software developer is super-hard , I want to stay in the middle as a people person after 15 years in software development. Thinking about taking project management courses or maybe product managing, it is hard to decide.
Im a QA tester but I have project management skills/ experience I would love to make some tech videos if anyone is interested I would love to share more about the industry with you guys! I have some on my channel already and I made one on web development when I was a full stack development
Software developers have a big advantage over project managers in that they are sought after more than managers because of this they can get raises faster being that they can leave their jobs for a better company at any time. another thing is in that there skills are better and more valued than project managers since they’re job is more technical.
You are better off getting a master's degree in data science, so you are eligible for unlimited research H-1B and taking electives for computer software development so you have 20% chance at getting regular H-1B developer job so that you have 120% chance, you should have 5 years of work experience before coming to America for your Master's degree, who wants to hire Indian fresher except another Indian working for a desert Body Shop who's going to cheat you for money, who wants to hire Indian fresher except Indianapolis, who wants kickback
Final scope/Career Progression: Manager: CEO / COO Engineer: CTO final Salary: - Initially, Developers > Managers - Level up after 4-5 years : managers start low but raise is higher Engineer: Android App, Java Make UI Stories Project Manager: 70℅ SCRUM Master 30% Development Team Lead JIRA for task management
Harnoor bhaiya. I want to know that is it necessary to have computer science background or technical background to become product manager or project manager. Or a non technical can also become product manager?.
Plz reply i wanna read software engineering in usa so what should i read in india up to bachelor or 12 passed to read software engineering in usa plz reply
Hey what should you do after btech in computers to be into project management or please provide all roles in a video for good pay jobs apart from coding 😇
How could you be a project manager of developer coders if you've never been a coder? Who is going to respect you if you can't do what they do? What makes you a good project manager? Are you good people person? Were you in the military? Did you have leadership responsibility in the military? What job did you have in high school what job did you have on brakes summer break winter break what job did you have in college? Go get a job and see if you like it why do you think you're going to be a good project manager if you can't do every job that you are managing? Because you are Hindu Brahman and they are d a l i t?
I feel yudi really loves what he does and wants all to do what they love but singh wants to prove that Developer is better than managing and all should choose Developer.
I am a React Js Developer & overall 4 yaers of experience ..I wanted to switch my profile to PM or technical program manager or scrum master role what should be the approach to switch my profile ?? Is it possible based on 4 years of experience ??
You should be talking about the growth factor as PM like opportunities available in current market, Attrition rate since there will be 1 PM Vs 7-10 s/w developers
You need for your degree minimum to be eligible for h1b, so if you are three year bba, you should work for 5 years in India, complete your Master's degree, apply for H-1B, while you're in india, then come to America with your 5 years of work experience continue with your education, continue to apply for H-1B, maybe you can get H-1B while you are still studying for your Master's degree, and you can work full time and go to school full-time or part-time like everybody else in the world if you think you're going to come to America with 3-year BBA then get a master's degree and have 20% chance of h-1b, you are a fool, Indians are fools what you want from me?
Bro.i have 4 years electric engineering degree Is that business management good for me (i like trouble shooting jobs which offer me daily challageings) Plz guide me bcoz i'm about to start my fileing for immigration
What you suggest for person who has done MBA , Now want to change career as PM ? Is it good to pursue PMP certification first or he'll go for PMI Agile ?
Oh man! This was so much ❤️🙏🏼😇
I can’t wait to do this again 😎
Yes it was extremely fun. We can surely plan next collab soon
Pretty Interesting .
Sumit kumar Gupta haha! Good one ☝️
Are you trying to mock us? Haha!
@@YudiJ nope bro,this was really informative for me and if you again collabe that too Will be informative.
Both my fav volgers in one video... This is awesome👌
SKIP to:
Responsibilities: 0:22
A Day in Life: 2:06
Salary: 4:25
Stress Level: 5:12
Is it Fun?: 7:20
Scope of Promotion: 9:08
Conclusion/ What you should choose: 11:33
Watch Part 1 & Subscribe To Yudi J: ua-cam.com/video/i5sb9ZbLKDo/v-deo.html
*I'm first viewer*
Informative
Developer turned project manager makes more money in terms of salary as he has the train of knowledge.
Thank you for this kind information bro
Are you sure that project managers make more money than developer or architect? Did you talk to any recruiters in India who are staffing jobs in america? Do you have any facts data personal experience? Do you really know what you're talking about?
Yudi J salary is on the internet it was $87,500 and he was hired at $65,000
I've been a PM and a developer. Great to start off as a dev and grow into a PM career. Very rewarding and pays well too and right now there are plenty of jobs for PMs!
how do you do that? how to acquire the time required for PMP certification?
Would you suggest product management? I'm doing my masters and considering the field of product manager I would like some input about it
Do you really want to be a project manager or do you not want to be a developer? That's really the question. Being a project manager is an awful job, you are always failing every day, you are always solving problems everyday and many of them you can't fix, is that what you want to do?
2 of my most favourite UA-camr in one frame... LOVED IT...
This collab is exciting and superb. I would like to make such a video and invite others to cover different fields.
Yudi j is smart and Singh is hardworking.
Yudi, love you mate! "Keep Smiling, Keep Hustling" :-)
Once Kapildev said "Who wants to be a bowler? Everybody wants to be like Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni or Gambhir who are officers,Bowlers are majdoors (workers). Who wants to be a worker? Everybody wants to be an officer,"
By taking this analogy Project Manager is like officer, Software Developer is like worker
Software Developer has more challenges
1.Think towards the solution 2.Dead line(short deadline).3.Limited resource(Limited target board, Limited licence of some needy tools etc.,)
3.Peer review issue,some peer reviewers put their view point on code author view instead of looking memory issue,code improvisation etc,4.Convincing manager
I have seen Manager, he wrote code, understand the situation he plans accordingly he convince higher management guys with his technical/development skill(experience)
at the same time I have seen manager who does not have technical/development skill(experience) but their communication skill they elviated as manager(but they are good in sales and marketing)unfortunately they are in wrong side, I have seen when there is limited resource for checking hardware interrupt developer wants emulator kind of device that geneartes hardware interrupt or extra target board
instead saying actual fact we are having limited resource and allotment of each resource (time and hardware device) across development team gently without starving devloper, some manager are saying use software interrupt unfortuately software interrupt does not support in the Integrated development environment (IDE), as a project manager he should be aware of this,for let it pass on attitide they tell some hi fi technical words, this makes developer life miserable, this is due to lack of knowledge current (rapid change)software and hardware update, if we see 2012 hardware is outdated in 2019
Developer has this advantage because he is in field(very rarely few project manager engaged in field than siiting outside the field).In India service software industry has less technically oriented project manager, than true technical manager.
Developer are not getting good scope
Baloney talk of manager gets good scope over true technical words since management listen sweet talk than actual fact,for e.g., with limited resource, project manager agrees on shorter deadline period, this look very impressive at the client side,management side(This only in service software sector) unfortunately these kind of managers are entered into product based company.
In service software sector developers appraisal are done by manager, if manager aware each devloper work over the period one year then it is well and good unfortunately most of the manager are unaware devloper work, manager know devloper work during appraisal time if devloper present his work details, if manager is less technically oriented then it is horrrible.Now days in India this creepy (service software sector) culture entered into product company.
A J longest comment ever....
You both are great youtubers you really motivate me a lot
Seriously guys i was looking for this kinda of vdo all over internet..........Thnxxxxxx guys
It's unbelievable fact that both of the Indian would be introduce your Passion to each other.
What a great clarification..thanks for this information video on project management role
Personally think PM trumps development, most of the people move out of development after a few years, that doesn't happen in PM.
Plus if you think about it, most of the CEOs, or people running the companies were PMs in the early part of their life.
And btw if you think PMs do the same thing over and over again, you are obviously not aware of the range of duties you have to perform and I might as well add, managing a team is not as easy as Harnoor describes here - takes a lot out of you and you only get to know how difficult the thing is when you actually do it.
Hey Harsh - totally agree, sounds like you've been a PM dor a while. It's a great career and exposes you to so many stakeholders and therefore opportunities. It leads to very senior roles within the organisation and pays very well.
@@theitprojectmanagermentor5685 Yes, exactly!
Hey I have a Bachelor's degree in Civil Engineering and looking to pursue Masters in Project Management to enter into IT industry as Coding is not my cup of tea. What is your opinion of me taking Project Management?
@@rajashekarreddy9933 Anyone can become a project manager, there is a PMP certification that you can do aswell as part of becoming a PM.
OR an MBA, personally I think an MBA will ace any Masters in PM, as a lot of the MBAs end up as Project/ Product Managers when they enter the industry post graduation.
Hindu brahmins like the idea of being a project manager because they don't wash their own dishes they don't clean their own floors they don't wash their own toilet, they don't cook their own food, because they don't want to do any work they think being a project manager is easy and they don't have to do any work, they think they want to study computer science but they really don't want to be developers Indians don't want to work they are lazy their head is lazy their brain is lazy
Congratulations for 10k. Keep going.
Thankyou very much for this video.. It has been now almost three years since this video has been uploaded and now in 2022 it helped me after putting efforts in one year into development... After watching this video I got clear idea... Project management is not boring as that of software development... Because can't sit for hours in front of computer and no communication 🥲
I watch you both on the loop.keep hustling and sharing videos.
Nice to see you both together guys. Very much informative video.
both my favorite
Wow !😊 awesome content .❤️
Very informative video. Yudi's cricket analogy was totally awesome. It was really helpful in understanding myself.
people person -product manager
puzzle solver-software developer
thank you so much both of u , especially Yudi , u illustrating while considering the example of cricket was what changed my mind
Its not the comparison between the profile it’s basically who have grown more in US. Its my personal opinion after seeing this video. No offence though. Btw happy to see you guys collaborating 👍
Good to see you guys together 😊 you guys should have included QA too..They own most of the ground work, paid less, huge pressure
2.5 years is novice in IT, please don't feel offended but it's a sad truth I have been through it but after spending 13 years in IT I can definitely say that. There is a lot more to learn.
Exactly what i was looking for ...
Very helpful video bro !!! Thank you
Thanks for the knowledge.
Best video . Thxx 4 this video bro
Love the video. This is really informative and makes it easy for someone to understands both type of jobs and their pros and cons. Sometimes its hard to make that decision and this video will be really helpful in that case. Can’t wait for the next collaboration, probably something less serious and more fun. 😉 P.S. this video is also fun 😊
Sharvani agree!
You would understand both types of jobs, if you went and got a job and information technology you don't need to watch a video go get a job
Great video fellas! ❤️ I love the cricket analogy at the end! 🏏😃 Great perspective!
One thing Harnoor, I would kindly suggest to be careful calling yourself an “experienced” software developer right now. Your videos are awesome, but 1.5 years is pretty Green/Junior in America. Since those have mostly been internships and since you haven’t graduated yet and started working full time, I wouldn’t want you to accidentally give people the wrong impression or confuse them. Hope that makes sense!
Great collaboration guys!
You are in texas, plenty of African Americans plenty of Mexicans, why aren't you helping Mexicans and african-americans?
The Software developer guy has a very catchy personality. Yudi does too. Good video.
Yesterday only i saw yr comments on his channel and today u both on a single video ! Wow!!
Well, you guys have said what you have said. Now let me tell a thing or two !! At entry level in Software Engineering position say 10,000 engineers entered work force in a year(Actually it could be more). 20 years down the line there are say only 250 CTO positions, 250 VP positions, 500 Sr Director positions available at any given time (CTO and VPs are actually lesser). Now at the begining 10,000 Engineer's entered work force, 20 years later only 1000 positions available. Let's add another 1000 positions and make it 2000 positions available. What rest of 8000 engineer will do considering 2000 of them taken up the available positions ??
Think about it and post me a reply 🙂
As u know population increases exponentially, each of those 10000 will be managing a team of 10-20.
OR they might start their own firm or just quit and retire.
20 years down the line software engineer might increase to 100,000 or 1,000,000 per year. So u will have 10000 CTO positions.
U never know how these people multiply 🤣
That's not the case. There is no relation between population increase and software engineering position. Software Engineering may decline in next 20 years !!! Bots may take over !
Wow... fantastic collaboration seriously such a super knowledgeable video 🌐🌐🌐😍
Dhaivat Ganatra agreed!
*I'm first viewer*
*Very nice video sir*
*you are doing a great job sir*
*Sir how your comment is published 9 hours ago*
I made the video private at that time
@@SinghinUSA *okay sir*
good example of cricket bro.made things preety much clear.
Bro, you don't wanna miss the conversation from 13:10 🤣. Yudi's reaction and comeback 🤣
hey guyz this was really helpful
Working hard as software developer is super-hard , I want to stay in the middle as a people person after 15 years in software development. Thinking about taking project management courses or maybe product managing, it is hard to decide.
Both my favs. ❤🤗
I like the end :)
Pink one : make more money... make more money... make more money... N i felt tat 😂😂😍
My project manager works 24/7
This is really good content pls keep posting more
Om Gorakhia agreed!
pretty impressive
very informative 😊 Thanks
What if you are interested in both technical stuff and also want to manage things and are a people person ?
Engineer manager
Im a QA tester but I have project management skills/ experience I would love to make some tech videos if anyone is interested I would love to share more about the industry with you guys! I have some on my channel already and I made one on web development when I was a full stack development
Hey plz help me what I choose testing or PM??
Nice video bhaiya
Awesome!
Great!!
Nice discussion.
Original content, way to go Mr.Singh
Great communication skills ✌️👍
Mayank Kumar agreed!
Impressive bri
Do you use SharePoint...Yudi?
This convinced me to become a PM
Is there a position as a Project manager as a starter? Do they always require an experience?
Software developers have a big advantage over project managers in that they are sought after more than managers because of this they can get raises faster being that they can leave their jobs for a better company at any time. another thing is in that there skills are better and more valued than project managers since they’re job is more technical.
You are better off getting a master's degree in data science, so you are eligible for unlimited research H-1B and taking electives for computer software development so you have 20% chance at getting regular H-1B developer job so that you have 120% chance, you should have 5 years of work experience before coming to America for your Master's degree, who wants to hire Indian fresher except another Indian working for a desert Body Shop who's going to cheat you for money, who wants to hire Indian fresher except Indianapolis, who wants kickback
very glad to see both of you together and thanks for another vedio
plz make a vedio on trump are going to transfer green card to build america visa
Final scope/Career Progression:
Manager: CEO / COO
Engineer: CTO final
Salary:
- Initially, Developers > Managers
- Level up after 4-5 years : managers start low but raise is higher
Engineer:
Android App, Java
Make UI Stories
Project Manager:
70℅ SCRUM Master
30% Development Team Lead
JIRA for task management
Knha yudi knha dusra Banda dev. Yudi is in good position
I've heard that in the US mba jobs are more competitive and locals are preferred over immigrants. Opt period is only 1 yr for mba grads. Is that true?
Yup OPT is 1 year if you do an MBA, however if you do a Stem MBA, your OPT will be 3 years.
@@bbc8q112 I want to persue stem mba , but under 20Lakhs is there any clg in Chicago?
@@nawazshareef9319 try state universities, they are the cheapest
Harnoor bhaiya. I want to know that is it necessary to have computer science background or technical background to become product manager or project manager. Or a non technical can also become product manager?.
I have a big question guys. How do you guys manage UA-cam being one a full time coder and another Manager/team lead
is experience must for software engineering in usa, uk or in other european countries...?
Idk why, but Harnoor looks way younger now
Plz reply i wanna
read software engineering in usa so what should i read in india up to bachelor or 12 passed to read software engineering in usa plz reply
Let's do this again
Hey what should you do after btech in computers to be into project management or please provide all roles in a video for good pay jobs apart from coding 😇
How could you be a project manager of developer coders if you've never been a coder? Who is going to respect you if you can't do what they do? What makes you a good project manager? Are you good people person? Were you in the military? Did you have leadership responsibility in the military? What job did you have in high school what job did you have on brakes summer break winter break what job did you have in college? Go get a job and see if you like it why do you think you're going to be a good project manager if you can't do every job that you are managing? Because you are Hindu Brahman and they are d a l i t?
If someone wants both things what should he do?
I feel yudi really loves what he does and wants all to do what they love but singh wants to prove that Developer is better than managing and all should choose Developer.
I am a React Js Developer & overall 4 yaers of experience ..I wanted to switch my profile to PM or technical program manager or scrum master role what should be the approach to switch my profile ?? Is it possible based on 4 years of experience ??
Yudi... What is the scope of PMP in US ?
Hello brother
I’m React/Node Js Developer in India.
How can I apply for US IT company.
Please suggest me.
Guess how ???
Be owner
You should be talking about the growth factor as PM like opportunities available in current market, Attrition rate since there will be 1 PM Vs 7-10 s/w developers
Hi Yudi! i am currently an undergrad in bba and strive to be a project manager...should i go for stem mba or a non stem mba..?! please acknowledge me
You need for your degree minimum to be eligible for h1b, so if you are three year bba, you should work for 5 years in India, complete your Master's degree, apply for H-1B, while you're in india, then come to America with your 5 years of work experience continue with your education, continue to apply for H-1B, maybe you can get H-1B while you are still studying for your Master's degree, and you can work full time and go to school full-time or part-time like everybody else in the world if you think you're going to come to America with 3-year BBA then get a master's degree and have 20% chance of h-1b, you are a fool, Indians are fools what you want from me?
Bro.i have 4 years electric engineering degree
Is that business management good for me (i like trouble shooting jobs which offer me daily challageings)
Plz guide me
bcoz i'm about to start my fileing for immigration
How many lines of code you write on an average ... per day ?
Bro you shake your head too much,is it also interesting .
😃😂😁😀👏🤣😂😃😁
😂😂😂
♥ 👏
How much salary u earn from these job
Jatin Bagri we just made a video about that on Chai & Coaching, check it out if you are interested
Bro
what is te salary after master bro
sanjay hardy we just made a video about that on Chai & Coaching, check it out if you are interested
Knha yudi knha dusra Banda dev. Diff a lot b/w both
Aur kha tu ..haha
What you suggest for person who has done MBA , Now want to change career as PM ? Is it good to pursue PMP certification first or he'll go for PMI Agile ?
It was look like ur roommate
Apne use ek video me apna dinner taste karwaya tha
If u want to be boss be a p.m.
average salary in us after graduation
we just made a video about that on Chai & Coaching, check it out if you are interested
be a bit casual.. it becomes too boring
What is salary each individual get after taxes
suhas c we just made a video about that on Chai & Coaching, check it out if you are interested