Well now, Three Houses Claude is validated by the academy phase now. He’s rash and not trustful of his army in Three Hopes, VERY different from Three Houses, where he’s defined by his trust and his quick call to action. Claude actually gets his character development here, and adds more to Three Houses, whether that was intentional or unintentional. Very clever Koei.
Considering the fact that this games timeskip is 2 years rather than 5 and the war still goes on even after the story, it actually makes sense that we are seeing this version of Claude. We are now getting a natural progression to the person he’ll hopefully become in the next few years.
Claude clearly needed the Academy even more than the others did because Three Houses Claude would never stoop this low, nor would he have this little faith in his comrades' abilities to see things through. The latter is especially jarring, given that in Verdant Wind, Claude is defined by his unshakeable faith in his professor first, and his comrades second, even if it takes some time for him to get there.
I agree. His "power of friendship" speech, while cheesy, is a great summation of his growth throughout 3Houses. And now 3Hopes Claude serves as a contrast for how he was going to turn out without Byleth and his time at the academy. I think that this contrast will allow others to more recognize that Claude did, in fact, develop during 3Houses.
@@sparkybolt2085 Thank you. I feel the same. Honestly, it's why I have such complex feelings about this Claude. On one hand, he is a pretty good what-if scenario for Claude if he never grew to understand the power of trust, but on the other hand, he does things that just pain me as a VW fan. He acts so much like Crimson Flower Edelgard.
@@MrGksarathy I felt so bad in 3Hopes at times. I can tolerate Claude's schemes to an extent, but what happened in this video and his Kingdom invasion felt a bit much though it was understandable with his development in this game (less curiosity about the Heroes relics and what the church is hiding leads to his more aggressive stance towards the church). Still, it only makes me like him more as a character because it adds more layers to him.
It also probably has to do with the fact that Three Houses Claude has a major bargaining chip (for the church) and mentor in Byleth but just a friend in Shez. Makes a major political and emotional difference
@@huntersmith1413 Definitely. He also got to know members of the Church and became more interested in learning their secrets than taking them down. I suppose Three Houses Claude would probably have mixed feelings about Three Hopes Claude.
@@MrGksarathy Except he's shown to consider giving his foes stomach issues with poison or something to win the battle. Pretty sure you can find an item relating to that. You're giving Claude too much credit, he's not some saint like you think he is. He just didn't have to get his hands dirty as everything fell into his lap in 3Hs.
@@nuibaba280 You can, but joking about doing it and not following through with it is a far cry from actually implementing a plan or hatching a scheme, which you clearly understand. Claude does have his flaws in Three Houses, but even when actively plotting, he doesn't actually cross the moral event horizon and hinges most of his plans on the good nature of other people, trusting in their capabilities, and eventually their better angels.
@@nuibaba280 Poisoning your enemies is different to willingly sacrificing your team mates because you don't think the rest of the team is capable enough to save people *and* win the fight.
It’s nice to see him on more even footing in terms of morals with the other two lords, in three houses he seemed to be the objectively happy route and now everything is a bit more balanced.
@@pn2294 Not at all. It was obnoxious how the game put Claude as this shady guy and to watch out for him only to do nothing with it. Claude never fucks up in Three Houses and it was shitty. About time Hopes gave him flaws.
@@pn2294 Except it had nothing to do with Claude not making stupid decisions, he made "stupid decisions" in other Thee Houses routes too. He got stuck with a Church route copy so Claude couldn't make many decisions to begin with.
Claude doing this doesn't surprise me. Mainly because I remember him saying how we was going to use Byleth as a tool but changed his mind after getting to know them Also in FEH in his FB he has conversations with the twisted schemers and Tacticians and not somebody like Robin or Soren. Meaning if he was pushed to a corner he'd throw away his morals to ensure his ambitions flourish. But he never was in TH because he had Byleth and grew.
Just a minor correction, that wasn't why he was talking with Iago, Gangrel, and Narcian. He tells Gangrel (who was the only one to catch onto him) that he needs to know the most dirty, under-handed and despicable tactics possible so he can COUNTER them, not use them. He didn't want to be the one stooping to their level.
From the power of friendship to chronic backstabber. In all seriousness though, I’m glad Shez and Judith call Claude out for being callous. Also glad that Claude at least tried to take their words into consideration.
@@richardshiflett5181 byleth couldn't even talk lol, nice to see a protagonist that can call then out on their shit. makes for a more interesting dynamic then chosen one favoritism
Wasn’t the big idea of this moment that nobody knew what happened but the allied army until those who slither in the dark get involved and send randolfs sister on a revenge quest back upped with the jerlt mercenaries
I like how some persons are ignoring the conversation between Edelgard and Claude in 3H in favor of saying he became another Edelgard or Worse. In their unique dialogue in Verdant Wind, it becomes a case where they both had similar end goals and ideals but one had to die because In The End, It Has To Be This Way for Fòdlan's Future
Oh I know this, and that's why I'm not saying that Claude was OOC or anything, just painful to watch. Claude playing the role of the conqueror and backstabber just hurts.
@@emberhermin52 That's a lie. Claude admitted it himself that he and Edelgard shared similar goals, just very different methods and perspectives on that goal.
@@MrGksarathy not really, Claude wants globalism & open borders, while Edel wants to conquer all Fodlan, they are not similar at all. Claude is a flipflopper who at least in 3 Hopes can join Edel or Dimitri (he can betray Edel but never betrays Dimitri). Both Edel & Claude might agree about the false notion the "church bad/church racist" but in canon both in 3 Houses/Hopes there is little to no evidence that church is controlling or racist, so both Edel & Claude were wrong about their accusations. If there's dlc I hope we get church path since it being missing in 3 Hopes was a huge let down for many fans, not to mention the big drama surrounding Claude/GW path in general.
It pretty much without Byleth influence, Claude ends up using Violence to win a battle which is why Shez being there helps Dimitri and Edelgard more with their mental states.
Byleth tends to be more the calmer one compared to Shez It makes sense why Claude is more.. Dangerous in this timeline He was shown to be tempted to doing these before in three houses but decided not to go for it And it's also why he gambled on the fact he won't be killed even if Byleth sided with the empire
@@thewerewolflounge3109 nah he straight up said a world without rhea would be better for him and wanted her dead, this is more obvious in the japanese. he was never opposed to killing if fact that part of him was something people always overlooked because he seemed "friendly" shez just got purposely snubbed because koei didn't want their precious mascot chosen one being possibly less important to the lords then shez.
I'm rolling my eyes at this. Not the same. Edelgard is an "ends justify the means" person. She sees the violence as necessary in order enact radical changes in territories loyal to a Church she wants to dismantle. Claude just doesn't care and used people here. He only ever acts out of what's most convenient to him. He has always been this way and isn't like Edelgard for that. The only people Edelgard uses are TWSitD, and that's Three Houses only.
@@hypotheticaltapeworm Edel is an imperialist, a conquerer & the instigator so by default she is the villain. Claude isn't any of that, there's no comparison between the 2 apart from accusing the church of being bad, but in GW Claude leans heavy on his pragmatism, backstabbing & cowardly nature he always had, so he takes advantage of the situation Edel made up, not cause it.
@@shadowsquid1351 Think. She renounces the Church, the most popular institution in the land. That paints a target on her back from both Rhea and her sycophants. They were going to fight back, there's no way that wouldn't be so. So she needs to fight everyone. Having total control isn't so much her goal as not being interrupted. She's willing to collaborate with Claude and respecting the Alliance's sovereignty. Only place she wants conquered is Garreg Mach, since it has religious and political advantages in being so.
@@hypotheticaltapeworm please pay attention to the actual game canon, she announces in both games that her goal is the conquest of all Fodlan AND the abolishment of the central church/Rhea. So she is in canon a conquerer & the devs themselves say so. Her reforms were done in her empire for 2 years & Rhea hasn't said a word against her yet she waged the war anyway. The only reason she joins Claude in GW is because she lost to Claude & can't go on against the kingdom & alliance on 2 fronts without the help of TWSITD/Byleth, so she made that deal with Claude to take out Rhea. The war continues at the end of GW & Claude refuses to take over the kingdom & is against Edel when she said she wants the kingdom because then she would have much more power & would take over his alliance with her combined power. Edel still wants to conquer the kingdom even after Rhea is killed which is Claude against in GW.
I do admit, I like this scene, in the sense that it gave Claude a moment. Houses Claude just felt so dull that you’d almost think he might as well be a happy-go-lucky character. But to see in Hopes, that not even 2 and a half years, he still can’t trust his allies, some even his closest that he’s willing to violate an officiated pack he recently, and mutually agreed to. It’s quite an incredible scene. Even as he betrayed Edelgard is the non-Byleth Scarlet Blaze route. It’s nuts that Claude would think making a deal with the Empire, yet plan to use them as fodder so that The Alliance/ Federation remain standing, with almost none of them dead. Sometimes I feel Claude needed more after this scene, sometimes I don’t. But hey, we finally see a major flaw in Claude’s character… even if we CLEARLY could’ve made it to Randolph in time
This is a big reason why I stick with Dimitri, but I'm also thankful for this portrayal of Claude. I've repeatedly heard over and over that Claude's methodology and tactics were supposed to be similar to Edelgard's, but didn't really see much of it in the 3Houses story. But it just makes me appreciate Dimitri's mercy and integrity even more.
Here's a wake up call to people that were blinded by how Claude acted in 3H. 3Hopes is not character assassination of Claude. This is the kind of person Claude always has been. The reason Claude was never able to be this kind of character in 3H is because VW is a copy of SS. Because of that, Claude HAD to go through the same story beats as SS had. No personalized route where Claude could freely play the role for himself. He had to go liberate and defend Garreg Mach. Then get reinforcements in Aillel. Then capture the Great Bridge. Then Gronder. Everything just goes by the same beats. 3Hopes gives Claude the chance to show himself because his route isn't some copy.
Absolutely correct. Judging on his backstory and how he grew up, Claude was likely meant to be more ruthless and calculating than is portrayed in 3 Houses. Having grown up as an outsider his whole life, no matter where he went would likely cause a person to develop trust issues, which would've likely been expanded on if they had time to actually write his story. In essence, Claude would've been much more like Yuri, except less honorable until he learned to trust his friends. A reveal of his past as Almyrran royalty and his classmates/teacher sticking with him despite finding out would've likely been a pivotal moment and he'd start becoming more honest.
Shez in particular really should have known that when Claude was willing to kill his own brother which he very much did not want to do, not to mention all of the mess the Alliance gets into, Claude was absolutely going to spiral into this darkness.
Yeah Claude killing his brother was extremely dark imo, especially since his bro at that point was literally unarmed! He should've taken him as a prisoner or something, not to mention how will his dad react to knowing that one of his sons killed another? At least Shez seems very detached from Claude in GW.
@@shadowsquid1351 Shahid stuck by wanting to kill Claude and raid Fodlan until the end. Claude wasn't obligated to keep his half brother alive at that point.
@@nuibaba280 maybe but killing him while he's unarmed & being your family is vicious no matter how you look at it. I wish they showed how Claude's dad reacted to the news, there's no way he'd be fine with it & this whole thing will probably sour his relationship with Claude if not worse.
@@shadowsquid1351 Not really vicious. He tried to get Shahid to stop and stand down. Shahid even makes clear that he'd rather die. Ultimately he wasn't worth saving. It's not vicious at all, Claude does it reluctantly and somberly. Shahid wasn't "unarmed" either, he literally brought out a blade and threw it at Claude with clear killing intent in that cutscene. Stop making Shahid out to be some victim. It won't sour anything. The king let this raid happen knowing full well Shahid could've died. Khalid is the king's favorite regardless and the half siblings were never close.
@@shadowsquid1351 Shez honestly feels detached from the three main lords in general, contrasting how Byleth can become that lord's closest confidant. With Shez, they're just a part of the inner circle like everyone else, but with Byleth they can become anyone's deepest friend. The differences in how Shez can see one's character and how they bond is such a huge difference compared to Byleth.
I get what Claude did was horrendous, but in his defense. He's been pressured as Alliance leader for two years with a sudden war, a lot of crushing responsibilities on him and he needed to make sure he and those who were with him survived which drove him to do a bunch of irrational things to get him and his useful followers on top.
Omg I LOVE Shez!! That is a great writing for an MC, speaking her mind & being correct too! Claude has always been a pragmatic, opportunist, amoral & wishywashy kinda character but he got better in 3 Houses because of different circumanstances. In 3 Houses he runs away at the 1st inconevience & in CF specifically continues to fight until the end only to beg for his life when he's personally is in danger like a coward, regardless of how many people died to defend the alliance from the empire. I like his writing here even if I don't agree with him & think he was a total idiot who commited many crimes & allied with the villain who waged the war but I still think he's interesting.
I to this day thought claud sacrificed randol intentionally not in the prioritizing greater victory over some losses but in the he wanted to weaken both armies for his comparing and to try and force edelgaurd into terms easier… now they didn’t go this route and I do kind of hate that they didn’t but what we got was good too.
Honestly? This scene has a lot of nuance. It makes sense for Claude to not have blind faith in his army, because that blind faith caused numerous beloved friends to be killed in certain timelines of Three Houses. He believed they could handle everything only for plenty of soldiers and Golden Deer to be slaughtered by Dimitri, Edelgard, or by someone else in Gronder. But at the same time, I understand Shez and Judith's frustrations. Especially when they don't know that Claude also wanted Edelgard and her army defeated.
No one was asking for Claude to have blind faith in his army, just any faith or any trust at all in his commanders to get the job done. Also, are you referring to Azure Moon and Silver Snow? That's the only time those complaints make any sense, and even then, that's a reach to tie it to Claude having too much faith in his army, unless you could say that's the same thing as him miscalculating his odds in that battle. Heck, in Azure Moon, he mostly charges ahead due to lack of trust in the Kingdom forces. Moreover, the power of trust usually worked in his favor in Three Houses, whether it be his own route or not. Finally, what he did here was kinda counterproductive even from a strategic standpoint because it hampered his ability to keep playing both sides or working with the Empire to defeat the Church. Edelgard is definitely more pissed at him and far more wary to cooperate in their shared goals directly because of this.
@@MrGksarathy That's just how Claude is. This is war, not accounting for the worst case scenario and how immediately things could fall apart is insane. It's fairly smart to not risk his greatest generals for someone he doesn't want to stay with for the long term. He never aligned with Edelgard much at all. And I don't believe Claude doesn't have faith in them. It only appears that way after betraying someone that was considered an ally by the Golden Deer associates. Him "not having faith" would contradict the blatant collaborating in Three Hopes. Claude's just good at making himself seem untrustworthy.
@@nuibaba280 Seem untrustworthy? He was untrustworthy in this game, which directly hampers his stated goals of freeing the people of Fódlan from the grip of the Church, the Crestocracy, and other hierarchies, unless he actually wants to freedominate the people of Fódlan, which he does slide into doing. To actually free people and get them to join you, you need to establish trust.
@@MrGksarathy Except Claude doesn't need them to be pure allies on his side. That's not what he's asking for, if he was trying to conquer Fodlan: maybe. But Claude was attempting to just stop the fighting, not justify them fully trusting him. He's never down for Edelgard and never will be. Betraying Imperial soldiers that was likely going to end up disagreeing heavily with Claude doesn't correlate to "failing to free the masses" that's not how that works. He can do that without being some saint.
@@nuibaba280 Even if he was trying to stop the fighting, no one trusts him to mediate anything now, given how much he has backstabbed people for his own gain. He's kinda shot himself in the foot there. At least, that's the impression I get from the Golden Wildfire Golden Ending. Besides, you just told me that you appreciate this version of Claude having more flaws and fuckups, and this was a pretty big fuckup strategically. Break an agreement, and people are reluctant to trust you.
This is what i wanted in OG 3 Houses. Claude is supposed to be the guy who'd achieve his goals by any means necessary, even if it means using or backstabbing his own allies to get what he wants... But instead, they just have him be Edelgard without the parts that made her work, Claude is just a generic good guy there, so there's no reason for us NOT to trust him there. But HERE?! Three Hopes does an amazing job showing how dangerous Claude actually is & showing his Machiavellian side... Unfortunately, this is a one time thing & if you recruit Byleth, these actions don't have any consequences... Man, IS *does not* want Claude to have anything, do they?
I can’t believe people dislike how they made Claude more flawed as a character, I think it’s was necessary for him to have a character progression like the rest of the lords, and by tackling his independent course of action thinking only he can make things right was the right aspect of his personality to board. Also we should not forget that he was declared Duke of the Alliance at 19 years old, not yet a fully matured adult
I’m not sure I understand. Everyone in the fanbase is getting on Claude’s case for doing this one thing in an effort to protect his army and get them out alive, and yet for some reason back in Three Houses Edelgard was willing to crush thousands of innocent people under her heal just for the sake of her own goals and ambitions and no one seemed to have any issue with that. Am I missing something?
@@emberhermin52 Lol the classic Edel bad, Claude/dimitri good stance. i am just sick of that argument. they are all good people with their own set of issues
@@muchluck7981 nah, edelgard is corrupt, her goal and ways contradicts themselves, and she dosnt learn a bit, all chsracters in their route end up learning about their mistakes and develops as person, even rhea in golden deer end up having this clash of feeling and retrieving for good since she realized what she was doing, edelgsrd NEVER try to question her action/decisions, she thinks her way is the only way, and you must follow it or die (pretty much what rhea was doing) even if she had good reasons, worst part is that all routes ends up doing what she wanted for fodlan, but the sole difference she disnt allow it because either kept rhea alive or that she wasnt the one ruling over fodlan (pretty villanic to think everyone can change the world but im the only one who can be over everyone else if you ask me) but facts are facts, edelgard is just a liberal rhea, rhea a conservative edelgard- Claude CEO of racism And dimitri a psycho but actually good king Which is why BA route isnt that good, no development at all, just we knowing edel backstory and therefore saying yes to whatever she commands
@@angelarce9747 Edelgard may seem like she doesn't reflect on her actions but she had already made every single decision beforehand in the Academy itself. She had determined that War was the only way she could achieve her goal due to what TWSITD did to her by giving her two crests. She doesn't change that much because she is determined to bring change, resolute in her decisions. In all of the routes, this leads her to do several things that are just wrong in general. Also her beef with Rhea. It's pretty simple really, Rhea is a god who has spent centuries protecting Humanity but in Edelgard's eyes, Rhea is also responsible for what Humanity has become due to the way she chose to handle everything about the 10 elites and TWSITD. Rhea herself had her own reasons for doing so but in Edelgard's eyes, Rhea basically tried to make Humanity Subserviant, to try and create a false sense of peace in her mind. As long as the Immaculate one was allowed to live, she could have spent several more years manipulating Humanity in a manner similar to TWSITD but using Fodlan's religion to do so. Edelgard always knew that she would end up being one of History's villains with her actions. She is the one who starts the war, the one who made the people suffer. Winner or loser, she will be remembered as such in Fodlan's history books. But that doesn't matter to her. All she wants to do is just bring Fodlan to a better tommorow and one that is not ruled by some people who have lived on for centuries at this point. whether it's by her hand or by others, she does not care. If Fodlan doesn't want to change it's ways, she will make it change.
I know this is considered the bad end but it seems a better show of character growth that if you don't recruit byleth and judith dies, he then blames himself later and changes his views, being there instead to save edlegard just in time even though it would be better for him if she dies (of course not for free but its a start) if your recruit them after this its like Claude's being rewarded for his callous backstabbing
@@TheHICDealer It's a terrible move. It tanks his standing with the empire and causes problems later because the empire "does not like being betrayed" It also gives people like Shez valid reason to wonder just how much Claude would do to protect *them*, which we see in this very cutscene. If he's unconcerned with people who aren't from the alliance then who's to say he won't sacrifice them, too? Considering that Shez is one of the strongest pieces on the board, making her question her loyalties is probably the worst move you can make.
@@TheHICDealergood move but not for your troops morale, they were supposed to help them but claude decide to not give any support at all and to make it worse claude lock randolph army escape path forcing him to face the knight of seiros whole army alone....well the good thing is both imperial and seiros are wiped out so no one can know what exactly happen...well except myson was there hidden and fortunately only tell the story to fleche instead of edelgard
Three Hopes redeems Edelgard but at the cost of Claude being AH in the game. Honesty He needs the academy phase because he doesn't think in this game at all. Like he told my Edelgard ( who he definitely has a crush on) and Dimitri told don't kill Rhea..... last mission kills Rhea. I will admit is the black eagles and crimson flowers are my favorite but I love the house in general. Claude deserved to die in this game, his route sucks, and his character does as well. Sorry, they butchered Claude in this game literally is just a backstabber to everyone.
he signed a pact with the Empire to "team up" against the Kingdom then was like "lol...read the fine print" except he only wrote the addendum in his head and didn't even communicate with his allies so literally everyone was like "wtf claude" In short, he had Randolph cornered by Kingdom forces and instead of coming to his aid, he captured the surrounding strongholds and left him for dead
Not really. Yeah, fewer casualty on their side. But at the cost of allies and pontienal partners. If you want to look at it objectly, then yeah he did. But from a more professional standpoint that is a Army to a King, this have severe consequences. Not only did Claud straight up prove he willing to throw away life's for his win, but he also admit that he can't replace Shez, not lose. He still see Shez as a piece in their twisted friendship. And this will lead to distrust to the soldiers. Cause if their leader is willing to throw away allies lives for the win, what else is he willing to do? And once the idea form, doubt and fear will naturally lead it course. So, objectly, maybe he did. From a standpoint of an army, he screw up big time.
@@doctorwho3708 Also, it will definitely cast a shadow over future alliances with both the Empire and Kingdom because he could easily repeat this behavior again, and that would be a setback to his goals. Moreover, it's hard to claim you're fighting for freedom when you're willing to sacrifice allies like that in the name of victory.
@@MrGksarathy I agree. Of anything, Shez and Judith weren't harsh enough to get him to understand the gravity of the situation he shoving himself in. The ending he want isn't going to happen like this. He already screw it up.
@@doctorwho3708 he sees everyone as a win, he gave everyone the order to focus on other things. had he order to everyone helped. a lot of his allies would've died for the sake of a few imperials. there was no "right" path here. Even if shez says that he had other choices, she fails to consider everyone else. Marianne vs Catherine would've ended badly for the federation, as well as Hilda vs Catherine, in fact almost everyone vs Catherine would've ended in a horrible situation, the potential ones to survive would be Lysethia, Lorenz and Leonie and even then, Catherine's battle experience out matches those 3. Claude had to weight his options, try to save the empire's troops by risking a lot of their own allies against Catherine, or letting Catherine deal with the imperial troops, and thus with a wearied down Catherine, proceed to finish her as a group As a king, he should put his allies first before anyone else. However that isn't to say that he was doing the right thing, had he come and planned an attack with the empire troops, everyone would've most likely survived the outcome. However that required that the empire and the federation to trust each other mutually for it to even happen. and since THIS Claude is very distrustful towards the enemy and has a much more "callous" approach to the fights, that possibility was just not possible for him at least. Judith has a fair reason to judge Claude's decision in this situation, for the federation and the empire made a pact to deal with the Central Church and thus regardless of what the Empire did first, she considers them as temporary allies and will treat them equally, which is not what Claude did in the slightest. Shez however, has absolutely no reason to judge Claude's decision in this situation. Her line as a merc would've taught her that there would be people that betray one another and that you must always keep your guard up and weigh your choices. She of all people, should've understand Claude's decision to sacrificing allies for the greater good. Is what a merc constantly lives for and what she told us she was ready for. Her complaints, while understandable from anyone's perspective, make no sense due to the line of work and mentality Shez has been showing us. If it was Lorenz and Judith complaining about Claude about what he did, it would've made more sense (to me at least). Judith wants Claude to remember his pact and to fully think about his choices while Lorenz wants to know if sacrificing people is what a king should strive for and if it was morally the right decision to do in front of his entire army. I know that Shez values her allies more than anyone, but her mentality in the supports, main quest dialogues and her line of duty just contradicts her outrage against Claude. I have to repeat this again, Shez of all people should know that there are times where you have to weigh your options and becareful with the people you team up with and went to bail the heck out (her support conversation with Bernie and her missions with Shamir in which they both talk about how they had to betray/leave their groups because it wasn't beneficial and/or was endangering them. Clearly show this). tldr; I think it should've been Judith and Lorenz that should've complained, not shez with Judith
@@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee I get your point but Shez has shown to really like their friends and in certain supports, it's shown Shez would happily put themselves on the line to save others. Shez not being happy at "needless death" makes some sense.
"Y NO FITE" "I rather conserve your lives if possible." "NO I WAN DIE WITH TEMPORARY ALLEGIANCE HONOR BETTER THAN LIFE." "Oh shit im sorry i guess your right"
Claude went from funny meme lord to war criminal lol
Finally Joining the other lords and Rhea
Welcome to the club, no more nice guy don't do wrong.
and im loving it
I want my funny meme lord back 🥺
He was always a war criminal where have you been.
Well now, Three Houses Claude is validated by the academy phase now. He’s rash and not trustful of his army in Three Hopes, VERY different from Three Houses, where he’s defined by his trust and his quick call to action. Claude actually gets his character development here, and adds more to Three Houses, whether that was intentional or unintentional. Very clever Koei.
Considering the fact that this games timeskip is 2 years rather than 5 and the war still goes on even after the story, it actually makes sense that we are seeing this version of Claude. We are now getting a natural progression to the person he’ll hopefully become in the next few years.
Claude clearly needed the Academy even more than the others did because Three Houses Claude would never stoop this low, nor would he have this little faith in his comrades' abilities to see things through. The latter is especially jarring, given that in Verdant Wind, Claude is defined by his unshakeable faith in his professor first, and his comrades second, even if it takes some time for him to get there.
I agree. His "power of friendship" speech, while cheesy, is a great summation of his growth throughout 3Houses. And now 3Hopes Claude serves as a contrast for how he was going to turn out without Byleth and his time at the academy. I think that this contrast will allow others to more recognize that Claude did, in fact, develop during 3Houses.
@@sparkybolt2085 Thank you. I feel the same. Honestly, it's why I have such complex feelings about this Claude. On one hand, he is a pretty good what-if scenario for Claude if he never grew to understand the power of trust, but on the other hand, he does things that just pain me as a VW fan. He acts so much like Crimson Flower Edelgard.
@@MrGksarathy I felt so bad in 3Hopes at times. I can tolerate Claude's schemes to an extent, but what happened in this video and his Kingdom invasion felt a bit much though it was understandable with his development in this game (less curiosity about the Heroes relics and what the church is hiding leads to his more aggressive stance towards the church). Still, it only makes me like him more as a character because it adds more layers to him.
It also probably has to do with the fact that Three Houses Claude has a major bargaining chip (for the church) and mentor in Byleth but just a friend in Shez. Makes a major political and emotional difference
@@huntersmith1413 Definitely. He also got to know members of the Church and became more interested in learning their secrets than taking them down. I suppose Three Houses Claude would probably have mixed feelings about Three Hopes Claude.
Well damn, and here I thought Edelgard and Dimitri were the troubled ones. Claude REALLY needed the academy....and Byleth too I guess.
Facts.
Finally, the Claude we were informed existed but never got to see.
Agreed
Three Houses Claude was a schemer, but all his schemes revolved around trusting in his classmates to pull through.
@@MrGksarathy Except he's shown to consider giving his foes stomach issues with poison or something to win the battle. Pretty sure you can find an item relating to that. You're giving Claude too much credit, he's not some saint like you think he is. He just didn't have to get his hands dirty as everything fell into his lap in 3Hs.
@@nuibaba280 You can, but joking about doing it and not following through with it is a far cry from actually implementing a plan or hatching a scheme, which you clearly understand.
Claude does have his flaws in Three Houses, but even when actively plotting, he doesn't actually cross the moral event horizon and hinges most of his plans on the good nature of other people, trusting in their capabilities, and eventually their better angels.
@@nuibaba280 Poisoning your enemies is different to willingly sacrificing your team mates because you don't think the rest of the team is capable enough to save people *and* win the fight.
It’s nice to see him on more even footing in terms of morals with the other two lords, in three houses he seemed to be the objectively happy route and now everything is a bit more
balanced.
He was boring and 1 dimensional
Nah, they ruined him; he’s more annoying now.
@@pn2294 Not at all. It was obnoxious how the game put Claude as this shady guy and to watch out for him only to do nothing with it. Claude never fucks up in Three Houses and it was shitty. About time Hopes gave him flaws.
@@nuibaba280 eww
I liked how his perspective as an outsider prevented him from making stupid decisions
@@pn2294 Except it had nothing to do with Claude not making stupid decisions, he made "stupid decisions" in other Thee Houses routes too. He got stuck with a Church route copy so Claude couldn't make many decisions to begin with.
Claude doing this doesn't surprise me.
Mainly because I remember him saying how we was going to use Byleth as a tool but changed his mind after getting to know them
Also in FEH in his FB he has conversations with the twisted schemers and Tacticians and not somebody like Robin or Soren. Meaning if he was pushed to a corner he'd throw away his morals to ensure his ambitions flourish.
But he never was in TH because he had Byleth and grew.
Just a minor correction, that wasn't why he was talking with Iago, Gangrel, and Narcian. He tells Gangrel (who was the only one to catch onto him) that he needs to know the most dirty, under-handed and despicable tactics possible so he can COUNTER them, not use them. He didn't want to be the one stooping to their level.
From the power of friendship to chronic backstabber. In all seriousness though, I’m glad Shez and Judith call Claude out for being callous. Also glad that Claude at least tried to take their words into consideration.
Claude showing vulnerabilities? I thought I'd never see the day.
Claude needed Byleth the most
Part 1 GW is just Claude showing vulnerabilities lol
@@richardshiflett5181 byleth couldn't even talk lol, nice to see a protagonist that can call then out on their shit. makes for a more interesting dynamic then chosen one favoritism
@@richardshiflett5181in Three Houses Dimitri needed professor the most. In Three Hopes, Claude def needed professor the most
Now I understand why the Edelgard and Claude support conversation starts a bit tense. She’s probably pissed at him.
Wasn’t the big idea of this moment that nobody knew what happened but the allied army until those who slither in the dark get involved and send randolfs sister on a revenge quest back upped with the jerlt mercenaries
Dawn M. Bennet really shined in this scene. You can hear Shez’s anger, and feel her anger too.
How Shez is absolutely incredulous and disgusted when she asks "Am I gonna be next?!" is really good because of all the undertones it has.
@@SpanishFly120 You can *hear* the disgust, betrayal, and anger in her tone. This scene solidified Dawn M. Bennet as my fave VAs.
Man its great to have these routes have characters "argue" makes them feel more alive and realistic and more than one-trait yes-men.
I hated how most black eagle house disagree with edelgard but they all went
"As noble its my duty to obey!"
I like how some persons are ignoring the conversation between Edelgard and Claude in 3H in favor of saying he became another Edelgard or Worse. In their unique dialogue in Verdant Wind, it becomes a case where they both had similar end goals and ideals but one had to die because In The End, It Has To Be This Way for Fòdlan's Future
Oh I know this, and that's why I'm not saying that Claude was OOC or anything, just painful to watch. Claude playing the role of the conqueror and backstabber just hurts.
They did not have similar end goals. At all.
@@emberhermin52 That's a lie. Claude admitted it himself that he and Edelgard shared similar goals, just very different methods and perspectives on that goal.
@@MrGksarathy not really, Claude wants globalism & open borders, while Edel wants to conquer all Fodlan, they are not similar at all. Claude is a flipflopper who at least in 3 Hopes can join Edel or Dimitri (he can betray Edel but never betrays Dimitri). Both Edel & Claude might agree about the false notion the "church bad/church racist" but in canon both in 3 Houses/Hopes there is little to no evidence that church is controlling or racist, so both Edel & Claude were wrong about their accusations.
If there's dlc I hope we get church path since it being missing in 3 Hopes was a huge let down for many fans, not to mention the big drama surrounding Claude/GW path in general.
@@MrGksarathy hey he's not a conqueror, he never conquers anything.
He's definitely a backstabber tho lmao.
Oh Claude, have you not heard the story of the Ghost? Jin Saki would have your head.
Without Byleth, Claude's schemes spread like wildfire.
It pretty much without Byleth influence, Claude ends up using Violence to win a battle which is why Shez being there helps Dimitri and Edelgard more with their mental states.
Byleth tends to be more the calmer one compared to Shez
It makes sense why Claude is more.. Dangerous in this timeline
He was shown to be tempted to doing these before in three houses but decided not to go for it
And it's also why he gambled on the fact he won't be killed even if Byleth sided with the empire
@@thewerewolflounge3109 nah he straight up said a world without rhea would be better for him and wanted her dead, this is more obvious in the japanese. he was never opposed to killing if fact that part of him was something people always overlooked because he seemed "friendly" shez just got purposely snubbed because koei didn't want their precious mascot chosen one being possibly less important to the lords then shez.
Let's give it up for Dawn M. Bennett and Rachel Robinson for their performances!
Seeing Claude dip into Edelgard territory of "i've already wet my hands with blood thus far" was honestly sorta sick, like, damn
I'm rolling my eyes at this. Not the same. Edelgard is an "ends justify the means" person. She sees the violence as necessary in order enact radical changes in territories loyal to a Church she wants to dismantle. Claude just doesn't care and used people here. He only ever acts out of what's most convenient to him. He has always been this way and isn't like Edelgard for that. The only people Edelgard uses are TWSitD, and that's Three Houses only.
defeated in the market place of ideas,
@@hypotheticaltapeworm Edel is an imperialist, a conquerer & the instigator so by default she is the villain. Claude isn't any of that, there's no comparison between the 2 apart from accusing the church of being bad, but in GW Claude leans heavy on his pragmatism, backstabbing & cowardly nature he always had, so he takes advantage of the situation Edel made up, not cause it.
@@shadowsquid1351 Think. She renounces the Church, the most popular institution in the land. That paints a target on her back from both Rhea and her sycophants. They were going to fight back, there's no way that wouldn't be so. So she needs to fight everyone. Having total control isn't so much her goal as not being interrupted. She's willing to collaborate with Claude and respecting the Alliance's sovereignty. Only place she wants conquered is Garreg Mach, since it has religious and political advantages in being so.
@@hypotheticaltapeworm please pay attention to the actual game canon, she announces in both games that her goal is the conquest of all Fodlan AND the abolishment of the central church/Rhea. So she is in canon a conquerer & the devs themselves say so. Her reforms were done in her empire for 2 years & Rhea hasn't said a word against her yet she waged the war anyway.
The only reason she joins Claude in GW is because she lost to Claude & can't go on against the kingdom & alliance on 2 fronts without the help of TWSITD/Byleth, so she made that deal with Claude to take out Rhea. The war continues at the end of GW & Claude refuses to take over the kingdom & is against Edel when she said she wants the kingdom because then she would have much more power & would take over his alliance with her combined power. Edel still wants to conquer the kingdom even after Rhea is killed which is Claude against in GW.
I do admit, I like this scene, in the sense that it gave Claude a moment. Houses Claude just felt so dull that you’d almost think he might as well be a happy-go-lucky character. But to see in Hopes, that not even 2 and a half years, he still can’t trust his allies, some even his closest that he’s willing to violate an officiated pack he recently, and mutually agreed to. It’s quite an incredible scene. Even as he betrayed Edelgard is the non-Byleth Scarlet Blaze route. It’s nuts that Claude would think making a deal with the Empire, yet plan to use them as fodder so that The Alliance/ Federation remain standing, with almost none of them dead. Sometimes I feel Claude needed more after this scene, sometimes I don’t. But hey, we finally see a major flaw in Claude’s character… even if we CLEARLY could’ve made it to Randolph in time
This is a big reason why I stick with Dimitri, but I'm also thankful for this portrayal of Claude. I've repeatedly heard over and over that Claude's methodology and tactics were supposed to be similar to Edelgard's, but didn't really see much of it in the 3Houses story.
But it just makes me appreciate Dimitri's mercy and integrity even more.
Here's a wake up call to people that were blinded by how Claude acted in 3H. 3Hopes is not character assassination of Claude. This is the kind of person Claude always has been. The reason Claude was never able to be this kind of character in 3H is because VW is a copy of SS. Because of that, Claude HAD to go through the same story beats as SS had. No personalized route where Claude could freely play the role for himself. He had to go liberate and defend Garreg Mach. Then get reinforcements in Aillel. Then capture the Great Bridge. Then Gronder. Everything just goes by the same beats.
3Hopes gives Claude the chance to show himself because his route isn't some copy.
Absolutely correct. Judging on his backstory and how he grew up, Claude was likely meant to be more ruthless and calculating than is portrayed in 3 Houses. Having grown up as an outsider his whole life, no matter where he went would likely cause a person to develop trust issues, which would've likely been expanded on if they had time to actually write his story.
In essence, Claude would've been much more like Yuri, except less honorable until he learned to trust his friends. A reveal of his past as Almyrran royalty and his classmates/teacher sticking with him despite finding out would've likely been a pivotal moment and he'd start becoming more honest.
Shez in particular really should have known that when Claude was willing to kill his own brother which he very much did not want to do, not to mention all of the mess the Alliance gets into, Claude was absolutely going to spiral into this darkness.
Yeah Claude killing his brother was extremely dark imo, especially since his bro at that point was literally unarmed! He should've taken him as a prisoner or something, not to mention how will his dad react to knowing that one of his sons killed another? At least Shez seems very detached from Claude in GW.
@@shadowsquid1351 Shahid stuck by wanting to kill Claude and raid Fodlan until the end. Claude wasn't obligated to keep his half brother alive at that point.
@@nuibaba280 maybe but killing him while he's unarmed & being your family is vicious no matter how you look at it. I wish they showed how Claude's dad reacted to the news, there's no way he'd be fine with it & this whole thing will probably sour his relationship with Claude if not worse.
@@shadowsquid1351 Not really vicious. He tried to get Shahid to stop and stand down. Shahid even makes clear that he'd rather die. Ultimately he wasn't worth saving. It's not vicious at all, Claude does it reluctantly and somberly. Shahid wasn't "unarmed" either, he literally brought out a blade and threw it at Claude with clear killing intent in that cutscene. Stop making Shahid out to be some victim.
It won't sour anything. The king let this raid happen knowing full well Shahid could've died. Khalid is the king's favorite regardless and the half siblings were never close.
@@shadowsquid1351 Shez honestly feels detached from the three main lords in general, contrasting how Byleth can become that lord's closest confidant. With Shez, they're just a part of the inner circle like everyone else, but with Byleth they can become anyone's deepest friend. The differences in how Shez can see one's character and how they bond is such a huge difference compared to Byleth.
I think the devs heard the complaints from fans about Claude not getting enough attention/development
I get what Claude did was horrendous, but in his defense. He's been pressured as Alliance leader for two years with a sudden war, a lot of crushing responsibilities on him and he needed to make sure he and those who were with him survived which drove him to do a bunch of irrational things to get him and his useful followers on top.
At least you're able to understand Khalid's perspective.
Omg I LOVE Shez!! That is a great writing for an MC, speaking her mind & being correct too!
Claude has always been a pragmatic, opportunist, amoral & wishywashy kinda character but he got better in 3 Houses because of different circumanstances. In 3 Houses he runs away at the 1st inconevience & in CF specifically continues to fight until the end only to beg for his life when he's personally is in danger like a coward, regardless of how many people died to defend the alliance from the empire.
I like his writing here even if I don't agree with him & think he was a total idiot who commited many crimes & allied with the villain who waged the war but I still think he's interesting.
I to this day thought claud sacrificed randol intentionally not in the prioritizing greater victory over some losses but in the he wanted to weaken both armies for his comparing and to try and force edelgaurd into terms easier… now they didn’t go this route and I do kind of hate that they didn’t but what we got was good too.
Honestly? This scene has a lot of nuance. It makes sense for Claude to not have blind faith in his army, because that blind faith caused numerous beloved friends to be killed in certain timelines of Three Houses. He believed they could handle everything only for plenty of soldiers and Golden Deer to be slaughtered by Dimitri, Edelgard, or by someone else in Gronder. But at the same time, I understand Shez and Judith's frustrations. Especially when they don't know that Claude also wanted Edelgard and her army defeated.
No one was asking for Claude to have blind faith in his army, just any faith or any trust at all in his commanders to get the job done. Also, are you referring to Azure Moon and Silver Snow? That's the only time those complaints make any sense, and even then, that's a reach to tie it to Claude having too much faith in his army, unless you could say that's the same thing as him miscalculating his odds in that battle. Heck, in Azure Moon, he mostly charges ahead due to lack of trust in the Kingdom forces.
Moreover, the power of trust usually worked in his favor in Three Houses, whether it be his own route or not.
Finally, what he did here was kinda counterproductive even from a strategic standpoint because it hampered his ability to keep playing both sides or working with the Empire to defeat the Church. Edelgard is definitely more pissed at him and far more wary to cooperate in their shared goals directly because of this.
@@MrGksarathy That's just how Claude is. This is war, not accounting for the worst case scenario and how immediately things could fall apart is insane. It's fairly smart to not risk his greatest generals for someone he doesn't want to stay with for the long term. He never aligned with Edelgard much at all.
And I don't believe Claude doesn't have faith in them. It only appears that way after betraying someone that was considered an ally by the Golden Deer associates. Him "not having faith" would contradict the blatant collaborating in Three Hopes. Claude's just good at making himself seem untrustworthy.
@@nuibaba280 Seem untrustworthy? He was untrustworthy in this game, which directly hampers his stated goals of freeing the people of Fódlan from the grip of the Church, the Crestocracy, and other hierarchies, unless he actually wants to freedominate the people of Fódlan, which he does slide into doing. To actually free people and get them to join you, you need to establish trust.
@@MrGksarathy Except Claude doesn't need them to be pure allies on his side. That's not what he's asking for, if he was trying to conquer Fodlan: maybe. But Claude was attempting to just stop the fighting, not justify them fully trusting him. He's never down for Edelgard and never will be.
Betraying Imperial soldiers that was likely going to end up disagreeing heavily with Claude doesn't correlate to "failing to free the masses" that's not how that works. He can do that without being some saint.
@@nuibaba280 Even if he was trying to stop the fighting, no one trusts him to mediate anything now, given how much he has backstabbed people for his own gain. He's kinda shot himself in the foot there. At least, that's the impression I get from the Golden Wildfire Golden Ending.
Besides, you just told me that you appreciate this version of Claude having more flaws and fuckups, and this was a pretty big fuckup strategically. Break an agreement, and people are reluctant to trust you.
This is what i wanted in OG 3 Houses. Claude is supposed to be the guy who'd achieve his goals by any means necessary, even if it means using or backstabbing his own allies to get what he wants... But instead, they just have him be Edelgard without the parts that made her work, Claude is just a generic good guy there, so there's no reason for us NOT to trust him there.
But HERE?! Three Hopes does an amazing job showing how dangerous Claude actually is & showing his Machiavellian side...
Unfortunately, this is a one time thing & if you recruit Byleth, these actions don't have any consequences... Man, IS *does not* want Claude to have anything, do they?
I can’t believe people dislike how they made Claude more flawed as a character, I think it’s was necessary for him to have a character progression like the rest of the lords, and by tackling his independent course of action thinking only he can make things right was the right aspect of his personality to board.
Also we should not forget that he was declared Duke of the Alliance at 19 years old, not yet a fully matured adult
Poor Randolph keeps getting killed in these games lmao
He's the Kenny of Three Houses/Hopes.
Yeah I swear he’s always just
“The imperial general who exists to die”
When your friend starts calling you out on your sh*t only for your mom to join in.
I’m not sure I understand. Everyone in the fanbase is getting on Claude’s case for doing this one thing in an effort to protect his army and get them out alive, and yet for some reason back in Three Houses Edelgard was willing to crush thousands of innocent people under her heal just for the sake of her own goals and ambitions and no one seemed to have any issue with that. Am I missing something?
Claude's supposed to be the good guy
@@emberhermin52 Lol the classic Edel bad, Claude/dimitri good stance.
i am just sick of that argument. they are all good people with their own set of issues
@@muchluck7981 nah, edelgard is corrupt, her goal and ways contradicts themselves, and she dosnt learn a bit, all chsracters in their route end up learning about their mistakes and develops as person, even rhea in golden deer end up having this clash of feeling and retrieving for good since she realized what she was doing, edelgsrd NEVER try to question her action/decisions, she thinks her way is the only way, and you must follow it or die (pretty much what rhea was doing) even if she had good reasons, worst part is that all routes ends up doing what she wanted for fodlan, but the sole difference she disnt allow it because either kept rhea alive or that she wasnt the one ruling over fodlan (pretty villanic to think everyone can change the world but im the only one who can be over everyone else if you ask me) but facts are facts, edelgard is just a liberal rhea, rhea a conservative edelgard-
Claude CEO of racism
And dimitri a psycho but actually good king
Which is why BA route isnt that good, no development at all, just we knowing edel backstory and therefore saying yes to whatever she commands
@@angelarce9747 Edelgard may seem like she doesn't reflect on her actions but she had already made every single decision beforehand in the Academy itself. She had determined that War was the only way she could achieve her goal due to what TWSITD did to her by giving her two crests. She doesn't change that much because she is determined to bring change, resolute in her decisions. In all of the routes, this leads her to do several things that are just wrong in general.
Also her beef with Rhea. It's pretty simple really, Rhea is a god who has spent centuries protecting Humanity but in Edelgard's eyes, Rhea is also responsible for what Humanity has become due to the way she chose to handle everything about the 10 elites and TWSITD. Rhea herself had her own reasons for doing so but in Edelgard's eyes, Rhea basically tried to make Humanity Subserviant, to try and create a false sense of peace in her mind. As long as the Immaculate one was allowed to live, she could have spent several more years manipulating Humanity in a manner similar to TWSITD but using Fodlan's religion to do so.
Edelgard always knew that she would end up being one of History's villains with her actions. She is the one who starts the war, the one who made the people suffer. Winner or loser, she will be remembered as such in Fodlan's history books. But that doesn't matter to her. All she wants to do is just bring Fodlan to a better tommorow and one that is not ruled by some people who have lived on for centuries at this point. whether it's by her hand or by others, she does not care. If Fodlan doesn't want to change it's ways, she will make it change.
Claude is supposed to be a good guy. Oh no bros...we lost...it's over....
1:21 Suddenly, Ghost of Tsushima.
I know this is considered the bad end but it seems a better show of character growth that if you don't recruit byleth and judith dies, he then blames himself later and changes his views, being there instead to save edlegard just in time even though it would be better for him if she dies (of course not for free but its a start)
if your recruit them after this its like Claude's being rewarded for his callous backstabbing
Lets see without byleth being s teacher
Edelgard is less radical and violent
Dimitri is less psycho
Claude is less faithful
I’m confused , he sacrificed an allied yes, but still foreign general to allow his troops to get out unscathed, why are we against this ?
because 3Houses Claude would never
@@joyhappiness yeah but it’s still a good move , I would honestly be quite pleased with Claude , wether or not it’s in line with 3h Claude
@@TheHICDealer It's a terrible move. It tanks his standing with the empire and causes problems later because the empire "does not like being betrayed"
It also gives people like Shez valid reason to wonder just how much Claude would do to protect *them*, which we see in this very cutscene. If he's unconcerned with people who aren't from the alliance then who's to say he won't sacrifice them, too? Considering that Shez is one of the strongest pieces on the board, making her question her loyalties is probably the worst move you can make.
@@TheHICDealergood move but not for your troops morale, they were supposed to help them but claude decide to not give any support at all and to make it worse claude lock randolph army escape path forcing him to face the knight of seiros whole army alone....well the good thing is both imperial and seiros are wiped out so no one can know what exactly happen...well except myson was there hidden and fortunately only tell the story to fleche instead of edelgard
@@TheHICDealer petra said in her country what claude did would make him be praised as a hero so yeah i guess it depends on perspective/cultures
Claude crazy
Three Hopes redeems Edelgard but at the cost of Claude being AH in the game. Honesty He needs the academy phase because he doesn't think in this game at all. Like he told my Edelgard ( who he definitely has a crush on) and Dimitri told don't kill Rhea..... last mission kills Rhea. I will admit is the black eagles and crimson flowers are my favorite but I love the house in general. Claude deserved to die in this game, his route sucks, and his character does as well. Sorry, they butchered Claude in this game literally is just a backstabber to everyone.
What kind of war crime did claude von riegan just did?
he signed a pact with the Empire to "team up" against the Kingdom then was like "lol...read the fine print" except he only wrote the addendum in his head and didn't even communicate with his allies so literally everyone was like "wtf claude"
In short, he had Randolph cornered by Kingdom forces and instead of coming to his aid, he captured the surrounding strongholds and left him for dead
@@joyhappiness 😨…………. WTF Claude not cool!!😡
What’s the ost called in this scene?
Soliloquy I think.
he objectively made the best decision !
Not really.
Yeah, fewer casualty on their side. But at the cost of allies and pontienal partners.
If you want to look at it objectly, then yeah he did.
But from a more professional standpoint that is a Army to a King, this have severe consequences.
Not only did Claud straight up prove he willing to throw away life's for his win, but he also admit that he can't replace Shez, not lose.
He still see Shez as a piece in their twisted friendship.
And this will lead to distrust to the soldiers. Cause if their leader is willing to throw away allies lives for the win, what else is he willing to do? And once the idea form, doubt and fear will naturally lead it course.
So, objectly, maybe he did.
From a standpoint of an army, he screw up big time.
@@doctorwho3708 Also, it will definitely cast a shadow over future alliances with both the Empire and Kingdom because he could easily repeat this behavior again, and that would be a setback to his goals. Moreover, it's hard to claim you're fighting for freedom when you're willing to sacrifice allies like that in the name of victory.
@@MrGksarathy I agree.
Of anything, Shez and Judith weren't harsh enough to get him to understand the gravity of the situation he shoving himself in.
The ending he want isn't going to happen like this.
He already screw it up.
@@doctorwho3708 he sees everyone as a win, he gave everyone the order to focus on other things. had he order to everyone helped. a lot of his allies would've died for the sake of a few imperials. there was no "right" path here. Even if shez says that he had other choices, she fails to consider everyone else. Marianne vs Catherine would've ended badly for the federation, as well as Hilda vs Catherine, in fact almost everyone vs Catherine would've ended in a horrible situation, the potential ones to survive would be Lysethia, Lorenz and Leonie and even then, Catherine's battle experience out matches those 3.
Claude had to weight his options, try to save the empire's troops by risking a lot of their own allies against Catherine, or letting Catherine deal with the imperial troops, and thus with a wearied down Catherine, proceed to finish her as a group
As a king, he should put his allies first before anyone else. However that isn't to say that he was doing the right thing, had he come and planned an attack with the empire troops, everyone would've most likely survived the outcome. However that required that the empire and the federation to trust each other mutually for it to even happen. and since THIS Claude is very distrustful towards the enemy and has a much more "callous" approach to the fights, that possibility was just not possible for him at least.
Judith has a fair reason to judge Claude's decision in this situation, for the federation and the empire made a pact to deal with the Central Church and thus regardless of what the Empire did first, she considers them as temporary allies and will treat them equally, which is not what Claude did in the slightest.
Shez however, has absolutely no reason to judge Claude's decision in this situation. Her line as a merc would've taught her that there would be people that betray one another and that you must always keep your guard up and weigh your choices. She of all people, should've understand Claude's decision to sacrificing allies for the greater good. Is what a merc constantly lives for and what she told us she was ready for. Her complaints, while understandable from anyone's perspective, make no sense due to the line of work and mentality Shez has been showing us. If it was Lorenz and Judith complaining about Claude about what he did, it would've made more sense (to me at least). Judith wants Claude to remember his pact and to fully think about his choices while Lorenz wants to know if sacrificing people is what a king should strive for and if it was morally the right decision to do in front of his entire army.
I know that Shez values her allies more than anyone, but her mentality in the supports, main quest dialogues and her line of duty just contradicts her outrage against Claude. I have to repeat this again, Shez of all people should know that there are times where you have to weigh your options and becareful with the people you team up with and went to bail the heck out (her support conversation with Bernie and her missions with Shamir in which they both talk about how they had to betray/leave their groups because it wasn't beneficial and/or was endangering them. Clearly show this).
tldr; I think it should've been Judith and Lorenz that should've complained, not shez with Judith
@@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee I get your point but Shez has shown to really like their friends and in certain supports, it's shown Shez would happily put themselves on the line to save others. Shez not being happy at "needless death" makes some sense.
"Y NO FITE"
"I rather conserve your lives if possible."
"NO I WAN DIE WITH TEMPORARY ALLEGIANCE HONOR BETTER THAN LIFE."
"Oh shit im sorry i guess your right"