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klint is "great character" for the raw ass line of "to my extortioner, mael stronghart-- may you feel the jaws of the beast at your throat every time you swallow" alone
I can never get Van Zieks bigotry being a knock against his *character*, especially since that’s his character arc to unlearn it, and he has probably the best character arc in the game. I guess you can knock him out of annoyance, but if bigotry being annoying knocks a character then bigotry being annoying would knock the whole writing of the game (where most British characters like to sling around microaggressions casually). It was never like that for me, and, especially since this is (initially) a game by Japanese people for Japanese people, and me being Asian, it was always a “We’re really calling out these old British people today” vibe. When Van Zieks breaks from that mold, I celebrate it along with the writers.
I don’t think it’s a big issue either. But it seems a little silly to justify Van Zieks racism because he had a bad experience with one person of a particular race. Especially because Van Zieks met multiple Japanese people at the time and only one of them was “bad”. I don’t think there’s any real life scenario where you could empathise with someone becoming racist against your entire race because they had a bad experience with one person of your particular race. That being said I think that sort of thing *does* happen in real life. I just wouldn’t call it that great of a character arc for that person to realise “oh, maybe every single person with that skin colour isn’t the same”. Naruhodo had to pull off a thousand miracles in the courtroom to finally be accepted by the cool hot racist vampire guy. It just seems silly to worship that. Idk I feel like if someone respects their heritage they wouldn’t think like that.
@@HelveticaWoes …because no one (at least, not most of the VZ fans I’ve seen) is justifying Van Zieks’ racism. No one is saying he’s *right* or even logical to be racist. He himself admits in the game he is being wildly illogical. That’s precisely what makes him a fascinating character, to see an otherwise levelheaded guy allow himself to be dragged down by very obviously wrong beliefs because of his trauma. That’s drama! I like Van Zieks he’s *interesting*, not because he’s a *good guy* (although he does change). Because I like seeing his inner conflict and how he eventually overcomes it. His problem isn’t just racism, it’s his character problems making him think that the pain he’s been through is a justifiable excuse for his racism, when it clearly isn’t. The whole Professor incident gave him a truckload of trust issues in general, and the racism is just an easy excuse for him to paint over it. Ryuunosuke’s real miracle wasn’t ‘curing’ a guy of his racism, it was showing Van Zieks that he SHOULD trust people other than himself, and that a previous betrayal shouldn’t stop him from doing the right thing. Also, I know it isn’t your intention to be insulting, but it feels just a tad presumptuous to be like “if someone respects their heritage they wouldn’t think like this/like this racist character” considering how much the Japanese fanbase of GAAC adores Van Zieks. And to be clear again, I’m not saying this to justify his racism being okay ‘just because the JP fanbase is okay with it.’ Because…I’m pretty sure his racism is not why the JP fans love him, but how his character plays out.
@@poissony I just want to say I really like this reply. I’m happy to discuss this with you. Firstly, I am only referencing the writing of his character. I’m not trying to paint his fans as being racist. I’m saying that I believe “To see an otherwise level headed guy be dragged down by very obviously wrong beliefs because of his trauma” isn’t interesting at all. “Van Ziek’s long plight against obviously dumb racism” isn’t a good character arc or one I can rally behind in a video game or real life. He was shown to trust and care about multiple characters before he got “changed” by Naruhodo and Susato. Harebrayne, Roly and multiple others. His trust issues are specifically with the Japanese. Naruhodo didn’t show Van Zieks he should trust and care about other people as he was already doing that. All that got changed was for him to finally not hate the Japanese. The glorification and fascination with such a character truly mystifies me, and I do genuinely believe if he wasn’t the cool looking mysterious vampire dude who’s design was pre-built for tumblr, nobody in their right mind would think this character is an S tier character. Also I do see how it could come across as insulting, but speaking as someone who is of a certain heritage, I truly believe that if you respect yourself then you won’t be fascinated about why a guy hates your race specifically. And as someone who might be Japanese, I’ve seen far more love for Van Zieks from westerners online than I have here.
@@HelveticaWoesThank you for being extremely respectful with my reply, despite my maybe controversial stance. I’ll admit I perhaps was a little annoyed when I wrote my comment and responded rather impulsively, so I hope it didn’t come off as insulting you. I’ll give you the point that Van Zieks was indeed show to have trusted others who weren’t Japanese, like Albert. And he also gives a constant pass to characters who shouldn’t have been given the benefit of the doubt, like Roly just because he’s a cop or even Shamspeare initially. And you know what, if you found this frustrating, I totally understand, because it is. It also sadly does undermine the character arc of Van Zieks becoming a broody distrustful person in general. However, I do still think he’s an interesting character, and I don’t think it has anything to do with self-respect. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but I don’t think acknowledging someone being evil, even racist, means that they cannot be empathized with. We are all human, and we are all susceptible to buying into propaganda and entertaining illogical ideas just because they appeal to our emotions. Just because we know racism is illogical, and we ourselves reject that wrong belief, does not mean we also do not accept a whole lot of other wrong and illogical beliefs. Van Zieks’ racism is still wrong. I do not condone his beliefs, but I understand why he chose to believe them despite knowing it was wrong. And really, if we are talking self-respect, notice how Ryuunosuke treated him. You can argue he’s overly polite outwardly and doesn’t call out Van Zieks enough, and I would agree with you. But not once does Ryuu agree with him, nor allow himself to be put down. He knows VZ is wrong, he rightly snarks how he is wrong and avoids VZ at first, and it is only once he tries to extend a branch and understands VZ does he become kinder. And not entirely either, considering he does yell at VZ in the prison for that ‘what do you Nipponese want’ comment. Ryuunosuke might show grace and understanding towards VZ, but not once does he lose his self-respect, nor does he accept VZ’s prejudiced remarks and takes them lying down. Perhaps this is too conservative a response, but I really admire that the story shows you CAN be both kind to but stand up for yourself against someone who unfairly discriminated against you. But I guess to put things in perspective, I am an Asian myself. I grew up in Singapore my whole life interacting with people mostly the same race as me, and not feeling strange about it. So yes, I lack the experience of being awfully and unfairly discriminated against just because of who I am. Whenever I see racist remarks online against who I am by white people, I just roll my eyes. And that perhaps is to my disadvantage, that I’ve never experienced really persistent discrimination before. Perhaps therefore I don’t easily understand how frustrating a character like Van Zieks can be to someone who’s had to go through discrimination every day. I don’t want to take this away from people or say they are wrong to be upset, because they very much aren’t. I never condone discrimination even if I’ve never experienced it as much myself. I just feel like people online tend to be either too quick to judge or to be self-righteous, especially white Westerners. “Look POC, look how not racist and tolerant I am of your existence, I would NEVER be an evil racist person like this fictional character.” While it is sometimes encouraging, it’s also frustrating and even a bit condescending to see people just flaunt it sometimes. As I said I don’t think anyone is immune to this kind of illogical rhetoric, and to deny otherwise, or act like racist people are uniquely evil or illogical is dangerous to me. ANYONE can think like them, and if we aren’t careful we will accept whatever wrong ideas happens to suit us.
Gregson's morals are the main reason why i love the guy. This game had a lot of morally neutral characters and gregson really takes the cake for my personal favourite one
Ok, but as the biggest Gregson simp, I have to point out how he's not a flat character like most Ace Attorney characters (other exceptions include Kazuma, Jigoku, etc), when they're almost either completely evil or unwaveringly good. Yes, Gregson is a good and competent cop, but he's also deeply related to London's foggy corruption. He was too far into Stronghart's bidding to back out, so he told himself that what he was doing "was for the good of the country" and he knows he's not a good man (based on what he tells Gina before going on his last mission). He wronged Gina in order to protect the government secrets and tries to make it up to her by adopting her and giving her a chance in life to be a better cop than he was. I love my Gregsy so much 🥹
Exactly, and the times it's based on, his mentality makes sense to be a patriot for his country and being misled by Stronghart. Heck, he even confronted Stronghart about it. I do wish there were more cases though in the games, since it happened really fast, just as we saw him in the present. Same goes with Maria and Courtney. Needed more cases. Overall though, I think Gregson is a character well done. Caught up in corruption, trying to do the right thing, even showing more emotion to us in the 2nd game, like a rare sprite, where he looks to the side, like he feels guilty and showing his true side.
@@DreadedGhoul575 I think a tiny change they could've made to Sithe that would make her character so much more impactful would be to have every autopsy report before case 8 signed by her name. It creates the impression that she's someone who you can trust and rely on (and really have no other option but to), but also that's she's sort of a far-off important presence who works in the background - it makes finally bringing her into sight for the first time far more shocking because it casts you into the same sort of dilemma that you see Barok face, where you no longer know who you can trust within the justice system. If you can't trust the person who's been the source of your information since the very beginning, who else can you trust?
I was actually surprised by how not-inherently-racist van Zieks is, in some sense, in that it's clear all of his racist malice derives from bad experience rather than "innate" racism. Contrast him with many of the jurors and the difference is clear - he never writes you off as some black magician or whatever like they do, for instance. And even at his worst, he doesn't have the same racial superiority notion as Jezaille Brett, for instance. in the end, still racist, to be sure - reason doesn't matter much. But the fact that is prejudice is derived from personal experience (rather than casual assumptions like the rest of Britain) says something about his character in spite of that, I think.
You guys putting Hosonaga so low physically hurt me. Sure, he didn’t get as much screen time as he should’ve but he was phenomenal for all of it. Going above and beyond to save the crime scene during Ryan’s trial, getting beat up by the captain to allow us to investigate Kazuma’s death, sneaking into Jigoku’s office, MR TURTLE, he had great moment after great moment. That combined with a good design I think puts him deserving a much higher spot. And he’s not sexist, which is hard to come by in Meiji Japan. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I've been reading "I am a cat" by Soseki Natsume (the real one), and got two details y'all might enjoy. - The japanese name of the novel is "Wagahai wa neko de aru"... wagahai appearently being a highly "self-elevating" pronoun that doesn't exist in english. - The cat in the novel is actually nameless, but one other cat calls them... "Professor" :) Y''all called it.
16:24 Deserved placement, but you completely forgot (I also kinda did) that Kazuma Tripping over the cat wasn’t actually what made him “die”. I think there was a plot point that she afterwards visited Kazumas Cabin, and when she knocked at the door, Kazuma asked if it was Inspector Hosonaga. Then she was afraid that Kazuma was gonna ring the alarm (he was gonna ask Ryan something), so she pushed him and he fell “dead”. Then the crew helped her cover it up. Or maybe I’m just going crazy, who knows.
It was a combo of the 2 that "killed him", it happened cause when she tried to push him the cat was in the way and he tripped while he was trying to balance himself
23:02 my favorite part is the end is when van zieks says "allow me to apologize for countless discourteses on my part" paying off his catchphrase in a really good way
I'm only seven minutes in, but I'm going to say before I forget: some of the ratings here surprised me until I remembered that what made the character interesting was all ad-libs by you guys. If I played the game now, I'd probably end up thinking "When is Auchi going to say the vampire stuff?".
Lol I had the same thought with Meekins... They created such a great bit for him, and then I watched other lets plays and in their series Meekins was a practically irrelevant character that only existed as a minor annoyance in 1-5
"The final case really hurts Kazuma he comes back and now he sucks" That's the point. That's literally the point. We saw Kazuma through Ryuunosuke's eyes and then when he comes back he shows a side of himself that was always there but Ryuunosuke was too in love to see. He does act irrationally and he does accuse van Zieks for far longer than he should but that's the point and we DO pull him out of it, you guys just kept making jokes even past the point that he turns around. Also have some respect for his boobs how can you be annoyed at him when he looks like that. Side note but the Sithe ranking is baffling to me, how does "I wish we saw more of her" translate to "THE LITERAL WORST CHARACTER"
The ranking includes how well we think the character was utilized and Sithe was just… kinda there 🤷♂️ very cool design, and a corrupt coroner is exciting, but she came so late and felt tacked onto a case.
Jigoku was a tough one for me. He was so cool, we were all rooting for him until he was revealed to be an opportunistic backstabber. I think putting him in the middle was a good compromise.
Yeah he is so cool, and his breakdown is amazing, but the revelation that he killed his best friend because a guy was like “I’ll help your career” is a bummer especially when this happens while he’s off screen and he never gets to show his feelings on the incident. But him hiding is the box is still top tier 😅
Can't be mad at the Sithe placement even though I like her. I wish Dr Sithe was introduced much earlier, around the same time as Gregson. Not only would this give us more time with her character (+Maria popping in) it would make her confession much more impactful. Plus her name being on the coroner's report much less noteworthy if it was always there on each case in Britain. Her design is one of my all time favourites and I feel like they did have more planned for her but didn't work out for whatever reason. Like what was with the oddness around her daughter's last name? It's different from Sithe's married and maiden name. Strange to include such a detail that was never expanded on. When playing my mind went to illegitimate child of one of the cast (perhaps Strongheart 👀) but could also be due to a previous marriage (that ended in death/affair? so many possibilities..) Alas! The power of hindsight. At least her theme is a banger.
Yeah Sithe being introduced earlier before her betrayal would have been a really good way to make it more impactful! I think that would have been really cool even if it was just including her names on the autopsy reports from 1-3 until you met her in 2-3!
@@SaveDataTeam I was watching another playthrough today and they do have her on 1-5 as Stevens, which I hadn't noticed except that person remarked something like "well, I'm not going to call the coroner corrupt" and really drew my attention to it IDK if they do it on any other autopsy reports though
The funny thing about the Dr. / Old Man Juror is that he not only is wondering if he left his scalpel in somebody, it's later revealed that he left his scalpel in not just anybody, but HERLOCK SHOLMES!
Gina will always be my favorite. She's rough around the edges, yet sympathetic and has a great arc over the course of the duology. And Wes' accent for her made her even better.
I’m glad you guys like Ryunosuke, putting him in A proves that Runo has some kind of character LOL. Personally, I’d put him bottom S or higher because I’m biased and, considering how the writers screwed over our beloved protags’ developments in the later games, Runo’s character feels even more completed. His confidence being built up over time, finally breaking free from “doing it for Kazuma”, not to mention he’s *extremely smart*. It’s hard to argue that he’s not the best protag of the franchise (except Edgeworth)
Largely accurate tier list until we get to Van Zieks who of course should be S-Tier, but you've redeemed yourself by putting all the animals in there 😄
I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I actually prefer Stronghart as "weird serious clock guy" than as a villain. Maybe if they amped up his cartoonish-ness but he played it 100% serious while everyone else was just baffled it would've resonated more with people, but I still liked him in the first game.
Thinking about Daley again, I think he's a character doing something they've done in AA before (tragic witness forced to live a false life), but he does it a bit better, a bit more interesting than Yani Yogi's kooky old man bit.
I'd argue Gregson is closer to Damon Gant than Stronghart was. Both were willing to fake evidence to get their desired conviction. Both were willing to let young girls go to jail for crimes they didn't do and were willing to kill in order to uphold the justice they believed in. Stronghart on the other hand only believes in himself and uses the excuse of law and order *dun dun* to justify his actions that benefit himself.
3:03 I dunno, technically he was still the one who performed Klint’s autopsy, even if mikotoba was the one who wrote the whole thing. I’d say that’s slightly more than “did nothing”.
Him ultimately being paid off by Stronghart to fake evidence and wielding his power over Mikotoba to do that was honestly such a a great twist. Like, we still had that lingering trust of Watson from him being a Sherlock Holmes character but the game masterfully uses that familiarity against us.
laughing at myself because in the last week I forgot about a very important doctor's appointment 3 times, had to reschedule TWICE and finally showed up to the appointment 20 mins late, but I can remember the names of Grimsby Roylot and Bruce Fairplay off the top of my head
Prij being a Hosonaga defender has really made my day. That man deserved better, I wish they brought him to England in the second game when Mikotoba and Jigoku arrived. He could've been there to protect them, maybe disguised as one of the hotels workers. I definitely think he was under utilised but the times he was on screen made me so happy. I do think the main issue is that his personality doesn't compare to other detectives we've met in the other games, the man is definitely not as good as Gumshoe or Fulbright. I think that him being simple works though, and the fact that hes undercover all the time makes him funny.
I LOVE the Mikotobas; both of them are my special blorbos I would punt Harebrayne and shove him in a locker bc he's an annoying dingus and a bad scientist, if not for the fear of getting my ass kicked by Barok.
Mikotoba’s are the real ones! And like Logan01 pointed out, there is definitely part of the game where you think Yujin might be a villain. For a character to keep you guessing the whole time and then for the reveal that he’s the real Watson at the end is a great bit of writing
26:40 Late but I do have to point out that it was Ryunosuke that says Fairplay and Lay D. Furst were lying in order to prove McGuilded innocent. Since McGuilded was actually guilty, their testimonies were the truth, thus Fairplay wasn’t actually lying just to get out of the debt
No S-Tier for Genshin Impact? Whomst had the biggest Impact on the whole game?! I'm surprised on how much Wes was strict on the characters since I was sure that Prij was gonna be him but Prij was pretty fair and generous to his credit. Is Zak hinting at GAAC3 where they'll be going to America like the Kingsman Sequel?
26:54 It's weird, since Fairplay and the Blonde Juror in 1-4 and switch personalities oddly in 2-2. The blonde guy is nice in 1-4, but 2-2 he's not as nice and Fairplay, he's quite aggressive in 1-4, but 2-2 he's a bit more logical and reasonable.
This perfectly illustrates the biggest issue with these games. The juror system was a mistake. It added dozens of throw-away characters and a lot of bloat to the gameplay.
I'm actually curious to find this tier list, but unfortunately, others that I find are incomplete with some characters missing. I'd love a link to this tier list.
The lack of Gina’s and Gregson’s relationship can be largely chopped up to the series being a duology instead of a trilogy the 1st game sold poorly so they crammed it into a rushed and shortened experience. Still great games but the rushed relationship between Gregson and Gina is evident because of this.
i'll be real, i've seen very little evidence for that rumor; i think it really was just meant to be a duology. any "rushed nature" is just due to the way the game itself is laid out and how much they try to do.
@@mysalsabrosv.2584 kazuma’s sudden resurrection is also evidence of how there was meant to be three games with a game in between kazuma might not be so fresh in the mind. I get ya though the evidence can also just be chalked up to crappy writing.
@@scratchedaviators1254I’m pretty sure the dudes who made the game always stated that this was supposed to be a duology. This was to dispel rumors that this was supposed to be one big game, but also serves to disprove any third game.
Hot take: TGAA (especially 2) is great, don't get me wrong. But, i prefer classic AA rather than TGAA because Naruhodo Ryuunosuke < Naruhodo Ryuuichi. . Why? Because i think PW gets more backstory, more explained reason than Ryuunosuke to why he choose the path of becoming a lawyer. On the conflict of AA, PW is located on the central of the conflict, while on the conflict of TGAA, i think Ryuunosuke is kinda a side character
Van Zieks is S tier (as to how well-written he is as a character -obviously racism is awful, nothing to debate about that, but that doesn't make him a bad character in story terms), how DARE you! 😡 Same goes for Ashley Graydon, who's at least as much of a great villain as Enoch Drebber! Both Graydon and Drebber are S tier for me too, all three are such well-written, flawed, complex characters, they deserve to be in S tier, especially Barok Van Zieks, and I'll die on this hill! I mostly agree with/begrudgingly accept your assessments of all the other characters. That said, I'd put Gina in S tier, the judge, the Beates, knife juror, the Skulkin brothers, Manimemo in good instead of great, Olive Green and Daley Vigil are in great for me, maybe even Asa Shin and Sithe in great instead of good (though I agree there's a lot of squandered potential with her and Maria, but if Tusspells gets to be in great, so do they, and yes, I'm totally simping for all four of them 😍🥰❤), Nina, Venus and the Garridebs in good, since they were memorable to me, most of the jurors in they exist, and Gossip, Peppino, the Stroganovs and incel Dracula in hate them (bc they're annoying AF and most of them are nothing but dumb/harmful stereotypes just like Bohemian boy). Now, Sholmes for me is just great, not S tier for me, because of how they executed his playing dumb vs his actual intelligence (and i annoying me the whole game) and his stupid, lore/immersion-breaking inventions. Also, hot take: I kinda hate Iris. Not because of her character (or Prij's portrayal) but because she's a child prodigy Mary Sue to a ridiculous level and completely unbelievable as a character, even before having tea with the Queen. She needed to be either way older or way less talented/smart to be even remotely believable. It's a shame, really, because the Wilson plot twist is awesome and really took me by surprise (I guessed most twists tbf - I hated the Kazuma is alive twist btw, almost as much as the final deus ex machina).
ik i'm late to the party, but i gotta say Kazuma is rly overrated. on the first case he kinda fills the same role as Mia was to Phoenix, but even so we wasn't all that great, iirc to a point where even Ryunosuke went beyond what Kazuma would manage to pull off. the only rly good moment he had was him cutting off the prosecutor's hair. after that he gets taken down by a cat and every single mention of him is followed by a flashback of "Karuma is the soul of the Asogi clan" yada yada yada, or Ryan claiming how "amazing" he is. then he shows up again in Resolve and he legit sucks arse, he feels like a complete buffon that's blinded by revenge. I even dare say that Resolve's Auchi was a better prosecutor than him, which is baffling, that was the first time i saw a Payne clone being somewhat competent, and Kazuma did worse than him as a prosecutor. i genuinely think the main reason most people like Kazuma is because of his graphic design and because Ryan spent the most part of 2 games hammering down abt how great he is, but the moment we get into the trial from 2-4 he's such a massive disappointment if it was me doing the tier list, i'd separate Kazuma into 2, game 1 Kazuma would go on pretty good (only for the sake of not being thrown down at 'he exists') and game 2 Kazuma would go on hate it
I'd actually put Ryonosuke and Kazuma in Pretty Good tier. If it were only 1-1 and his brief moments in 1-2, Kazuma would be S-tier. But after his reappearance, we're supposed to act like it's this amazing thing, but there isn't a single scene afterwards of the two having a conversation together as friends. And then, almost immediately after the end of the game, they part ways again. In the first game, I completely got that they had been close friends for a long time; in the second game, it's hard to believe that they're friends at all. As for Ryan... he's a bitch. I can't stand how passive he is; his whining in 1-4 - IN FRONT OF HIS CLIENT - about not knowing if he wants to be a lawyer, really ticked me off. He starts to be more determined and assertive in 1-5, only to be largely unchanged in the second game. The time skip where he didn't get to practice law, but did get to study a lot, never seemed to make much of an impact on him. It never feels like he matured and came into his own. For comparison, there's a reason the fanbase has consistently loved Phoenix as a main character. While he is pretty intelligent, he wasn't portrayed as a genius in the original trilogy. But he was consistently shown to be very determined. The rare moments he does start to give up are very big, dramatic moments. Ryonosuke isn't outright bad, but he's so annoying. Gina is a mixed bag; she's the opposite of Kazuma, where I hated her in the first game, but really like her in the second. I'd say she should be in the same tier as him, Pretty Good. She is the most obnoxious defendant in the mini-series, and stands next to some of the worst ones in the franchise. I don't particularly like her in 1-3 either. But... she improves big time in the second game, where she clearly appreciates and respects Ryan, is trying to be a capable cop/detective, and her relationship with Gregson is fantastic. I consider Gregson to be S-tier. Part of it is the ambiguity about him; we get to interact with him a bunch in the 2 games, and he's generally likable, clearly valuing justice above his ego. Then, his actions in 1-5 cause a lot of problems, but still show him prioritizing his country over an individual incident; not getting to confront him directly about it after the trial is a shame though. In the end, we don't get a real conversation with him about his goals/motivations, and the full extent of his role as the Reaper. But that's not a bad thing; letting the player fill in the gaps and imagine some of the background is a good thing, and the parts we do see first-hand are excellent. Soseki is annoying. I never liked him, and it felt like he kept popping up over and over. He has funny moments, and I wouldn't put him in the Hate 'Em tier, but he's not going above the middle tier. I don't think he's even Pretty Good, but he's better than They Exist. Eggbert is a Great Character. Best villain in the first game, one of the best out of both games. He's not an S-tier villain, but I like the details of his backstory, I like how effectively he managed to stay beyond suspicion. He's a dirtbag, but, you know, he's a villain. The defendant in 2-1 (Susato's friend) is a bit too high. She's alright, but not much else. Harebrayn should be in Hate 'Em. His interactions with Van Zieks are a point in his favor, but he's so ****ing annoying the rest of the case. Another contender for one of the worst defendants in the franchise. It amazes me that a bunch of software engineers would make such an unscientific "scientist". I don't really disagree with any other character on the list. The only character I thought they were way off on was the 2-3 defendant; everyone else is pretty close to what I think. Enjoyed watching.
Which characters do you think we did dirty, and which ones did we overrate? Let us know in the comments down below! 😁
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klint is "great character" for the raw ass line of "to my extortioner, mael stronghart-- may you feel the jaws of the beast at your throat every time you swallow" alone
I can never get Van Zieks bigotry being a knock against his *character*, especially since that’s his character arc to unlearn it, and he has probably the best character arc in the game. I guess you can knock him out of annoyance, but if bigotry being annoying knocks a character then bigotry being annoying would knock the whole writing of the game (where most British characters like to sling around microaggressions casually). It was never like that for me, and, especially since this is (initially) a game by Japanese people for Japanese people, and me being Asian, it was always a “We’re really calling out these old British people today” vibe. When Van Zieks breaks from that mold, I celebrate it along with the writers.
Skulkin brothers are easily the best “prosecution fucking despises the witness” dynamic, and he has the most reasonable gimmicks out of any prosecutor
I don’t think it’s a big issue either. But it seems a little silly to justify Van Zieks racism because he had a bad experience with one person of a particular race. Especially because Van Zieks met multiple Japanese people at the time and only one of them was “bad”. I don’t think there’s any real life scenario where you could empathise with someone becoming racist against your entire race because they had a bad experience with one person of your particular race.
That being said I think that sort of thing *does* happen in real life. I just wouldn’t call it that great of a character arc for that person to realise “oh, maybe every single person with that skin colour isn’t the same”. Naruhodo had to pull off a thousand miracles in the courtroom to finally be accepted by the cool hot racist vampire guy. It just seems silly to worship that. Idk I feel like if someone respects their heritage they wouldn’t think like that.
@@HelveticaWoes …because no one (at least, not most of the VZ fans I’ve seen) is justifying Van Zieks’ racism. No one is saying he’s *right* or even logical to be racist. He himself admits in the game he is being wildly illogical. That’s precisely what makes him a fascinating character, to see an otherwise levelheaded guy allow himself to be dragged down by very obviously wrong beliefs because of his trauma. That’s drama! I like Van Zieks he’s *interesting*, not because he’s a *good guy* (although he does change). Because I like seeing his inner conflict and how he eventually overcomes it. His problem isn’t just racism, it’s his character problems making him think that the pain he’s been through is a justifiable excuse for his racism, when it clearly isn’t. The whole Professor incident gave him a truckload of trust issues in general, and the racism is just an easy excuse for him to paint over it. Ryuunosuke’s real miracle wasn’t ‘curing’ a guy of his racism, it was showing Van Zieks that he SHOULD trust people other than himself, and that a previous betrayal shouldn’t stop him from doing the right thing.
Also, I know it isn’t your intention to be insulting, but it feels just a tad presumptuous to be like “if someone respects their heritage they wouldn’t think like this/like this racist character” considering how much the Japanese fanbase of GAAC adores Van Zieks. And to be clear again, I’m not saying this to justify his racism being okay ‘just because the JP fanbase is okay with it.’ Because…I’m pretty sure his racism is not why the JP fans love him, but how his character plays out.
@@poissony I just want to say I really like this reply. I’m happy to discuss this with you. Firstly, I am only referencing the writing of his character. I’m not trying to paint his fans as being racist. I’m saying that I believe “To see an otherwise level headed guy be dragged down by very obviously wrong beliefs because of his trauma” isn’t interesting at all. “Van Ziek’s long plight against obviously dumb racism” isn’t a good character arc or one I can rally behind in a video game or real life.
He was shown to trust and care about multiple characters before he got “changed” by Naruhodo and Susato. Harebrayne, Roly and multiple others. His trust issues are specifically with the Japanese. Naruhodo didn’t show Van Zieks he should trust and care about other people as he was already doing that. All that got changed was for him to finally not hate the Japanese. The glorification and fascination with such a character truly mystifies me, and I do genuinely believe if he wasn’t the cool looking mysterious vampire dude who’s design was pre-built for tumblr, nobody in their right mind would think this character is an S tier character.
Also I do see how it could come across as insulting, but speaking as someone who is of a certain heritage, I truly believe that if you respect yourself then you won’t be fascinated about why a guy hates your race specifically. And as someone who might be Japanese, I’ve seen far more love for Van Zieks from westerners online than I have here.
@@HelveticaWoesThank you for being extremely respectful with my reply, despite my maybe controversial stance. I’ll admit I perhaps was a little annoyed when I wrote my comment and responded rather impulsively, so I hope it didn’t come off as insulting you.
I’ll give you the point that Van Zieks was indeed show to have trusted others who weren’t Japanese, like Albert. And he also gives a constant pass to characters who shouldn’t have been given the benefit of the doubt, like Roly just because he’s a cop or even Shamspeare initially. And you know what, if you found this frustrating, I totally understand, because it is. It also sadly does undermine the character arc of Van Zieks becoming a broody distrustful person in general.
However, I do still think he’s an interesting character, and I don’t think it has anything to do with self-respect. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but I don’t think acknowledging someone being evil, even racist, means that they cannot be empathized with. We are all human, and we are all susceptible to buying into propaganda and entertaining illogical ideas just because they appeal to our emotions. Just because we know racism is illogical, and we ourselves reject that wrong belief, does not mean we also do not accept a whole lot of other wrong and illogical beliefs. Van Zieks’ racism is still wrong. I do not condone his beliefs, but I understand why he chose to believe them despite knowing it was wrong.
And really, if we are talking self-respect, notice how Ryuunosuke treated him. You can argue he’s overly polite outwardly and doesn’t call out Van Zieks enough, and I would agree with you. But not once does Ryuu agree with him, nor allow himself to be put down. He knows VZ is wrong, he rightly snarks how he is wrong and avoids VZ at first, and it is only once he tries to extend a branch and understands VZ does he become kinder. And not entirely either, considering he does yell at VZ in the prison for that ‘what do you Nipponese want’ comment. Ryuunosuke might show grace and understanding towards VZ, but not once does he lose his self-respect, nor does he accept VZ’s prejudiced remarks and takes them lying down. Perhaps this is too conservative a response, but I really admire that the story shows you CAN be both kind to but stand up for yourself against someone who unfairly discriminated against you.
But I guess to put things in perspective, I am an Asian myself. I grew up in Singapore my whole life interacting with people mostly the same race as me, and not feeling strange about it. So yes, I lack the experience of being awfully and unfairly discriminated against just because of who I am. Whenever I see racist remarks online against who I am by white people, I just roll my eyes. And that perhaps is to my disadvantage, that I’ve never experienced really persistent discrimination before. Perhaps therefore I don’t easily understand how frustrating a character like Van Zieks can be to someone who’s had to go through discrimination every day. I don’t want to take this away from people or say they are wrong to be upset, because they very much aren’t. I never condone discrimination even if I’ve never experienced it as much myself.
I just feel like people online tend to be either too quick to judge or to be self-righteous, especially white Westerners. “Look POC, look how not racist and tolerant I am of your existence, I would NEVER be an evil racist person like this fictional character.” While it is sometimes encouraging, it’s also frustrating and even a bit condescending to see people just flaunt it sometimes. As I said I don’t think anyone is immune to this kind of illogical rhetoric, and to deny otherwise, or act like racist people are uniquely evil or illogical is dangerous to me. ANYONE can think like them, and if we aren’t careful we will accept whatever wrong ideas happens to suit us.
3:34 Prij: But he's still sexist though.
Zak: Oh... yeah *moves him up a tier*
😂 goddamnit
Gregson's morals are the main reason why i love the guy. This game had a lot of morally neutral characters and gregson really takes the cake for my personal favourite one
Ok, but as the biggest Gregson simp, I have to point out how he's not a flat character like most Ace Attorney characters (other exceptions include Kazuma, Jigoku, etc), when they're almost either completely evil or unwaveringly good. Yes, Gregson is a good and competent cop, but he's also deeply related to London's foggy corruption. He was too far into Stronghart's bidding to back out, so he told himself that what he was doing "was for the good of the country" and he knows he's not a good man (based on what he tells Gina before going on his last mission). He wronged Gina in order to protect the government secrets and tries to make it up to her by adopting her and giving her a chance in life to be a better cop than he was. I love my Gregsy so much 🥹
GREGSON IS MY FAVORITE ACE ATTORNEY CHARACTER BRO I LOVE THIS GUY SO MUCH
And his theme slaps so hard too. Same tier as Partners ~ The Game is Afoot
@@tomokojoestar3189I wouldn't say the same tier for the pure hype the song offered but yeah a top 10 for me
Exactly, and the times it's based on, his mentality makes sense to be a patriot for his country and being misled by Stronghart.
Heck, he even confronted Stronghart about it.
I do wish there were more cases though in the games, since it happened really fast, just as we saw him in the present.
Same goes with Maria and Courtney.
Needed more cases.
Overall though, I think Gregson is a character well done.
Caught up in corruption, trying to do the right thing, even showing more emotion to us in the 2nd game, like a rare sprite, where he looks to the side, like he feels guilty and showing his true side.
@@DreadedGhoul575 I think a tiny change they could've made to Sithe that would make her character so much more impactful would be to have every autopsy report before case 8 signed by her name. It creates the impression that she's someone who you can trust and rely on (and really have no other option but to), but also that's she's sort of a far-off important presence who works in the background - it makes finally bringing her into sight for the first time far more shocking because it casts you into the same sort of dilemma that you see Barok face, where you no longer know who you can trust within the justice system.
If you can't trust the person who's been the source of your information since the very beginning, who else can you trust?
I love how "Ruined my Marriage" went from bottom tier of cases to top tier of characters lol
You win 100 points for being the first comment to point this out!
"Nihilism is a founding principle of Menimemoism" an actual line from Menimemo what was he on.
I was actually surprised by how not-inherently-racist van Zieks is, in some sense, in that it's clear all of his racist malice derives from bad experience rather than "innate" racism.
Contrast him with many of the jurors and the difference is clear - he never writes you off as some black magician or whatever like they do, for instance. And even at his worst, he doesn't have the same racial superiority notion as Jezaille Brett, for instance.
in the end, still racist, to be sure - reason doesn't matter much. But the fact that is prejudice is derived from personal experience (rather than casual assumptions like the rest of Britain) says something about his character in spite of that, I think.
He does have a line saying “What is this sorcery, you Nipponese conjurer?” soooooo he does do the black magician part :)
You guys putting Hosonaga so low physically hurt me. Sure, he didn’t get as much screen time as he should’ve but he was phenomenal for all of it. Going above and beyond to save the crime scene during Ryan’s trial, getting beat up by the captain to allow us to investigate Kazuma’s death, sneaking into Jigoku’s office, MR TURTLE, he had great moment after great moment. That combined with a good design I think puts him deserving a much higher spot. And he’s not sexist, which is hard to come by in Meiji Japan. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I am a hosonaga SIMP, I was simping for him the whole ass game I love this dorky man who is trying his damn best
he's a based king who tries his best. i hope that if we get TGAA3 he gets more screentime and character development
I've been reading "I am a cat" by Soseki Natsume (the real one), and got two details y'all might enjoy.
- The japanese name of the novel is "Wagahai wa neko de aru"... wagahai appearently being a highly "self-elevating" pronoun that doesn't exist in english.
- The cat in the novel is actually nameless, but one other cat calls them... "Professor" :) Y''all called it.
I knew the wagahai fact, but not the professor one! Very cool/funny!
16:24 Deserved placement, but you completely forgot (I also kinda did) that Kazuma Tripping over the cat wasn’t actually what made him “die”. I think there was a plot point that she afterwards visited Kazumas Cabin, and when she knocked at the door, Kazuma asked if it was Inspector Hosonaga. Then she was afraid that Kazuma was gonna ring the alarm (he was gonna ask Ryan something), so she pushed him and he fell “dead”. Then the crew helped her cover it up.
Or maybe I’m just going crazy, who knows.
It was a combo of the 2 that "killed him", it happened cause when she tried to push him the cat was in the way and he tripped while he was trying to balance himself
23:02 my favorite part is the end is when van zieks says "allow me to apologize for countless discourteses on my part" paying off his catchphrase in a really good way
I'm only seven minutes in, but I'm going to say before I forget: some of the ratings here surprised me until I remembered that what made the character interesting was all ad-libs by you guys. If I played the game now, I'd probably end up thinking "When is Auchi going to say the vampire stuff?".
Lol I had the same thought with Meekins... They created such a great bit for him, and then I watched other lets plays and in their series Meekins was a practically irrelevant character that only existed as a minor annoyance in 1-5
@@Smitology Exactly! Meekins is one of the biggest victims of the ad-lib effect.
"The final case really hurts Kazuma he comes back and now he sucks" That's the point. That's literally the point. We saw Kazuma through Ryuunosuke's eyes and then when he comes back he shows a side of himself that was always there but Ryuunosuke was too in love to see. He does act irrationally and he does accuse van Zieks for far longer than he should but that's the point and we DO pull him out of it, you guys just kept making jokes even past the point that he turns around. Also have some respect for his boobs how can you be annoyed at him when he looks like that.
Side note but the Sithe ranking is baffling to me, how does "I wish we saw more of her" translate to "THE LITERAL WORST CHARACTER"
The ranking includes how well we think the character was utilized and Sithe was just… kinda there 🤷♂️ very cool design, and a corrupt coroner is exciting, but she came so late and felt tacked onto a case.
Yeah Kazuma being stupid is the point there. He's literally blinded by his hate for van Zieks thinking he got his dad that was "innocent" killed
"but Ryuunosuke was too in love to see"
Are we implying those two are married ?
@@ZE.brigitteFar more than just an implication, you see they are canonically married.
Sad that the chat spamming ‘Testify’ when Sophie was begging to enter the VC didn’t make it into the video.
Jigoku was a tough one for me. He was so cool, we were all rooting for him until he was revealed to be an opportunistic backstabber. I think putting him in the middle was a good compromise.
Yeah he is so cool, and his breakdown is amazing, but the revelation that he killed his best friend because a guy was like “I’ll help your career” is a bummer especially when this happens while he’s off screen and he never gets to show his feelings on the incident. But him hiding is the box is still top tier 😅
Can't be mad at the Sithe placement even though I like her. I wish Dr Sithe was introduced much earlier, around the same time as Gregson. Not only would this give us more time with her character (+Maria popping in) it would make her confession much more impactful. Plus her name being on the coroner's report much less noteworthy if it was always there on each case in Britain. Her design is one of my all time favourites and I feel like they did have more planned for her but didn't work out for whatever reason. Like what was with the oddness around her daughter's last name? It's different from Sithe's married and maiden name. Strange to include such a detail that was never expanded on. When playing my mind went to illegitimate child of one of the cast (perhaps Strongheart 👀) but could also be due to a previous marriage (that ended in death/affair? so many possibilities..)
Alas! The power of hindsight. At least her theme is a banger.
Yeah Sithe being introduced earlier before her betrayal would have been a really good way to make it more impactful! I think that would have been really cool even if it was just including her names on the autopsy reports from 1-3 until you met her in 2-3!
@@SaveDataTeam I was watching another playthrough today and they do have her on 1-5 as Stevens, which I hadn't noticed except that person remarked something like "well, I'm not going to call the coroner corrupt" and really drew my attention to it
IDK if they do it on any other autopsy reports though
The funny thing about the Dr. / Old Man Juror is that he not only is wondering if he left his scalpel in somebody, it's later revealed that he left his scalpel in not just anybody, but HERLOCK SHOLMES!
Gina will always be my favorite. She's rough around the edges, yet sympathetic and has a great arc over the course of the duology. And Wes' accent for her made her even better.
I’m glad you guys like Ryunosuke, putting him in A proves that Runo has some kind of character LOL. Personally, I’d put him bottom S or higher because I’m biased and, considering how the writers screwed over our beloved protags’ developments in the later games, Runo’s character feels even more completed. His confidence being built up over time, finally breaking free from “doing it for Kazuma”, not to mention he’s *extremely smart*. It’s hard to argue that he’s not the best protag of the franchise (except Edgeworth)
I love the immediate agreement on knife juror, I burst out laughing and scared the cat lol
you scared your cat? did you trip over it, perhaps?
Can’t wait for Apollo Justice! Y’all are in for a fun time
Largely accurate tier list until we get to Van Zieks who of course should be S-Tier, but you've redeemed yourself by putting all the animals in there 😄
I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I actually prefer Stronghart as "weird serious clock guy" than as a villain. Maybe if they amped up his cartoonish-ness but he played it 100% serious while everyone else was just baffled it would've resonated more with people, but I still liked him in the first game.
Thinking about Daley again, I think he's a character doing something they've done in AA before (tragic witness forced to live a false life), but he does it a bit better, a bit more interesting than Yani Yogi's kooky old man bit.
to me ryunosuke’s stupidity is his adhd swag 🙏
Ngl, Van Zieks courtroom antics charmed me a lot with how dramatic they are. The first leg slam really got me lol (but yah the racism is inexcusable)
Natsume should be in S tier Idc what anyone says. He was sooooooo funny in 2-2 I was howling
I'd argue Gregson is closer to Damon Gant than Stronghart was. Both were willing to fake evidence to get their desired conviction. Both were willing to let young girls go to jail for crimes they didn't do and were willing to kill in order to uphold the justice they believed in. Stronghart on the other hand only believes in himself and uses the excuse of law and order *dun dun* to justify his actions that benefit himself.
3:03 I dunno, technically he was still the one who performed Klint’s autopsy, even if mikotoba was the one who wrote the whole thing. I’d say that’s slightly more than “did nothing”.
Him ultimately being paid off by Stronghart to fake evidence and wielding his power over Mikotoba to do that was honestly such a a great twist. Like, we still had that lingering trust of Watson from him being a Sherlock Holmes character but the game masterfully uses that familiarity against us.
Actually I really like Stronghart just because he has a great ost and he is always late while checking the watch is so funny.
The only character on par with Susato is Susato Crossdressing.
laughing at myself because in the last week I forgot about a very important doctor's appointment 3 times, had to reschedule TWICE and finally showed up to the appointment 20 mins late, but I can remember the names of Grimsby Roylot and Bruce Fairplay off the top of my head
34:36 like Manfred Von Karma
edit: you immediately made that joke now I just sound like a joke copier
Send them to the Moon, yes I think of regular show.
But her husband had the moon face. That was clever there.
Prij being a Hosonaga defender has really made my day. That man deserved better, I wish they brought him to England in the second game when Mikotoba and Jigoku arrived. He could've been there to protect them, maybe disguised as one of the hotels workers. I definitely think he was under utilised but the times he was on screen made me so happy. I do think the main issue is that his personality doesn't compare to other detectives we've met in the other games, the man is definitely not as good as Gumshoe or Fulbright. I think that him being simple works though, and the fact that hes undercover all the time makes him funny.
I LOVE the Mikotobas; both of them are my special blorbos
I would punt Harebrayne and shove him in a locker bc he's an annoying dingus and a bad scientist, if not for the fear of getting my ass kicked by Barok.
Mikotoba’s are the real ones! And like Logan01 pointed out, there is definitely part of the game where you think Yujin might be a villain. For a character to keep you guessing the whole time and then for the reveal that he’s the real Watson at the end is a great bit of writing
24:44 Wait, wasn’t the maid the one who was basically saying “exterminate the poors” in 1-5?
They forgot Swan Hat and the little chicks.
26:40 Late but I do have to point out that it was Ryunosuke that says Fairplay and Lay D. Furst were lying in order to prove McGuilded innocent. Since McGuilded was actually guilty, their testimonies were the truth, thus Fairplay wasn’t actually lying just to get out of the debt
Now that its over my pet peeve of Wes saying sprite for 3d models is over
Until the next game with 3d models...
It's funny how most Ace Attorney With A Real Lawyer videos usually play the straight man while the one in this series embraced the madness.
No S-Tier for Genshin Impact? Whomst had the biggest Impact on the whole game?!
I'm surprised on how much Wes was strict on the characters since I was sure that Prij was gonna be him but Prij was pretty fair and generous to his credit.
Is Zak hinting at GAAC3 where they'll be going to America like the Kingsman Sequel?
Hey Daily Vigil getting angry at warden was fun :D
Mikotoba supremacy. We love to see it. ❤
I was so mad when you didn't put Gina in S tier for one second and then you pointed out she's a class traitor and I thought y'know what you're right
I would put Brett in "they exist" if not for the breakdown and her SHUT UP objection bark. Those two elements are just iconic enough to carry her.
The last time I was this early I was [R E D A C T E D].
Wes doesn't like sad boys confirmed. XD
I can relate do Vigil. For I am a sad boy in real life.
Ryunosuke should learn towrds S tier tbh
Runo, Kazuma, Van Zieks and Gregson not being S is wild enough, but y‘all really put Stronghart and Greydon in mid tier💀
26:54 It's weird, since Fairplay and the Blonde Juror in 1-4 and switch personalities oddly in 2-2.
The blonde guy is nice in 1-4, but 2-2 he's not as nice and Fairplay, he's quite aggressive in 1-4, but 2-2 he's a bit more logical and reasonable.
This perfectly illustrates the biggest issue with these games. The juror system was a mistake. It added dozens of throw-away characters and a lot of bloat to the gameplay.
I'm actually curious to find this tier list, but unfortunately, others that I find are incomplete with some characters missing.
I'd love a link to this tier list.
I used this tier list, but added the 10 or so characters it was missing
tiermaker.com/create/the-great-ace-attorney-characters-170433
@@SaveDataTeam Ah ok. Sucks it misses a few.
Maybe there will be a full version eventually.
👍
Hey guys!
What happened to your first episode of Apollo Justice???
It’s not on you Live videos of UA-cam or on your normal ones??
I made it unlisted so the raw, unedited version is not taking up space in our videos. It still exists tho!
ua-cam.com/users/liveilOL-kKe9iM?feature=share
@@SaveDataTeam thanks! I remember watching a part of it live, but when I wanted to continue the rest I couldn’t find it!
14:17
*cough cough* Investigations 2 *cough cough*
The lack of Gina’s and Gregson’s relationship can be largely chopped up to the series being a duology instead of a trilogy the 1st game sold poorly so they crammed it into a rushed and shortened experience. Still great games but the rushed relationship between Gregson and Gina is evident because of this.
i'll be real, i've seen very little evidence for that rumor; i think it really was just meant to be a duology. any "rushed nature" is just due to the way the game itself is laid out and how much they try to do.
@@mysalsabrosv.2584 kazuma’s sudden resurrection is also evidence of how there was meant to be three games with a game in between kazuma might not be so fresh in the mind. I get ya though the evidence can also just be chalked up to crappy writing.
@@scratchedaviators1254I’m pretty sure the dudes who made the game always stated that this was supposed to be a duology. This was to dispel rumors that this was supposed to be one big game, but also serves to disprove any third game.
Me and my misinformed ass lol
14:34 up to here
old man yaoi and their babies at the top let's goooooooooo!!!! so excited to see my boy Apollo ♡
Maybe Zak just doesn’t like kids ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(Kidding)
To be fair, who does?
@@TheGodIvyI mean. I don’t like kids lol
Hot take: TGAA (especially 2) is great, don't get me wrong. But, i prefer classic AA rather than TGAA because Naruhodo Ryuunosuke < Naruhodo Ryuuichi.
.
Why? Because i think PW gets more backstory, more explained reason than Ryuunosuke to why he choose the path of becoming a lawyer. On the conflict of AA, PW is located on the central of the conflict, while on the conflict of TGAA, i think Ryuunosuke is kinda a side character
Van Zieks is S tier (as to how well-written he is as a character -obviously racism is awful, nothing to debate about that, but that doesn't make him a bad character in story terms), how DARE you! 😡 Same goes for Ashley Graydon, who's at least as much of a great villain as Enoch Drebber! Both Graydon and Drebber are S tier for me too, all three are such well-written, flawed, complex characters, they deserve to be in S tier, especially Barok Van Zieks, and I'll die on this hill!
I mostly agree with/begrudgingly accept your assessments of all the other characters.
That said, I'd put Gina in S tier, the judge, the Beates, knife juror, the Skulkin brothers, Manimemo in good instead of great, Olive Green and Daley Vigil are in great for me, maybe even Asa Shin and Sithe in great instead of good (though I agree there's a lot of squandered potential with her and Maria, but if Tusspells gets to be in great, so do they, and yes, I'm totally simping for all four of them 😍🥰❤), Nina, Venus and the Garridebs in good, since they were memorable to me, most of the jurors in they exist, and Gossip, Peppino, the Stroganovs and incel Dracula in hate them (bc they're annoying AF and most of them are nothing but dumb/harmful stereotypes just like Bohemian boy).
Now, Sholmes for me is just great, not S tier for me, because of how they executed his playing dumb vs his actual intelligence (and i annoying me the whole game) and his stupid, lore/immersion-breaking inventions. Also, hot take: I kinda hate Iris. Not because of her character (or Prij's portrayal) but because she's a child prodigy Mary Sue to a ridiculous level and completely unbelievable as a character, even before having tea with the Queen. She needed to be either way older or way less talented/smart to be even remotely believable. It's a shame, really, because the Wilson plot twist is awesome and really took me by surprise (I guessed most twists tbf - I hated the Kazuma is alive twist btw, almost as much as the final deus ex machina).
ik i'm late to the party, but i gotta say
Kazuma is rly overrated. on the first case he kinda fills the same role as Mia was to Phoenix, but even so we wasn't all that great, iirc to a point where even Ryunosuke went beyond what Kazuma would manage to pull off. the only rly good moment he had was him cutting off the prosecutor's hair.
after that he gets taken down by a cat and every single mention of him is followed by a flashback of "Karuma is the soul of the Asogi clan" yada yada yada, or Ryan claiming how "amazing" he is.
then he shows up again in Resolve and he legit sucks arse, he feels like a complete buffon that's blinded by revenge. I even dare say that Resolve's Auchi was a better prosecutor than him, which is baffling, that was the first time i saw a Payne clone being somewhat competent, and Kazuma did worse than him as a prosecutor.
i genuinely think the main reason most people like Kazuma is because of his graphic design and because Ryan spent the most part of 2 games hammering down abt how great he is, but the moment we get into the trial from 2-4 he's such a massive disappointment
if it was me doing the tier list, i'd separate Kazuma into 2, game 1 Kazuma would go on pretty good (only for the sake of not being thrown down at 'he exists') and game 2 Kazuma would go on hate it
Holy fuck im not alone, you're so right
Blorbo status
I'd actually put Ryonosuke and Kazuma in Pretty Good tier. If it were only 1-1 and his brief moments in 1-2, Kazuma would be S-tier. But after his reappearance, we're supposed to act like it's this amazing thing, but there isn't a single scene afterwards of the two having a conversation together as friends. And then, almost immediately after the end of the game, they part ways again. In the first game, I completely got that they had been close friends for a long time; in the second game, it's hard to believe that they're friends at all.
As for Ryan... he's a bitch. I can't stand how passive he is; his whining in 1-4 - IN FRONT OF HIS CLIENT - about not knowing if he wants to be a lawyer, really ticked me off. He starts to be more determined and assertive in 1-5, only to be largely unchanged in the second game. The time skip where he didn't get to practice law, but did get to study a lot, never seemed to make much of an impact on him. It never feels like he matured and came into his own.
For comparison, there's a reason the fanbase has consistently loved Phoenix as a main character. While he is pretty intelligent, he wasn't portrayed as a genius in the original trilogy. But he was consistently shown to be very determined. The rare moments he does start to give up are very big, dramatic moments. Ryonosuke isn't outright bad, but he's so annoying.
Gina is a mixed bag; she's the opposite of Kazuma, where I hated her in the first game, but really like her in the second. I'd say she should be in the same tier as him, Pretty Good. She is the most obnoxious defendant in the mini-series, and stands next to some of the worst ones in the franchise. I don't particularly like her in 1-3 either. But... she improves big time in the second game, where she clearly appreciates and respects Ryan, is trying to be a capable cop/detective, and her relationship with Gregson is fantastic.
I consider Gregson to be S-tier. Part of it is the ambiguity about him; we get to interact with him a bunch in the 2 games, and he's generally likable, clearly valuing justice above his ego. Then, his actions in 1-5 cause a lot of problems, but still show him prioritizing his country over an individual incident; not getting to confront him directly about it after the trial is a shame though. In the end, we don't get a real conversation with him about his goals/motivations, and the full extent of his role as the Reaper. But that's not a bad thing; letting the player fill in the gaps and imagine some of the background is a good thing, and the parts we do see first-hand are excellent.
Soseki is annoying. I never liked him, and it felt like he kept popping up over and over. He has funny moments, and I wouldn't put him in the Hate 'Em tier, but he's not going above the middle tier. I don't think he's even Pretty Good, but he's better than They Exist.
Eggbert is a Great Character. Best villain in the first game, one of the best out of both games. He's not an S-tier villain, but I like the details of his backstory, I like how effectively he managed to stay beyond suspicion. He's a dirtbag, but, you know, he's a villain.
The defendant in 2-1 (Susato's friend) is a bit too high. She's alright, but not much else.
Harebrayn should be in Hate 'Em. His interactions with Van Zieks are a point in his favor, but he's so ****ing annoying the rest of the case. Another contender for one of the worst defendants in the franchise. It amazes me that a bunch of software engineers would make such an unscientific "scientist".
I don't really disagree with any other character on the list. The only character I thought they were way off on was the 2-3 defendant; everyone else is pretty close to what I think. Enjoyed watching.