I can't read or hear about Adventist movements without thinking of that old Hitchens quote: "One imagines they suffer from a profound sense of anticlimax."
i am a dis-associated witness. That means I left the society voluntarily. I need to declare my colors from the start. While I believe I was right to leave I bear no animosity to the society. Prof. Ryrie's analysis of the society is spot-on. His inclusion of more recent changes was especially informative. I found one shortcoming. He said that separation from the world is the main trait of the society. I would disagree. The individual Witnesses fear of stepping one toe out of line is driving force in their lives. Other than that they are more typical of normative Christianity than they or other denominations will ever admit.
Thanks so much much Professor Ryrie. Few lecturers could weave religious zealotry, the wider secular historical background and Kellogg's Cornflakes into a narrative which is funny, immensely touching and so educational. It incidentally illustrates aspects of both political movements (e. g. Marxism) and respectable religions who have adapted in the face of rapidly changing modernity.
The part about not selling the church's soul for breakfast cereal is very ironic to me because here in Australia the seventh-day adventist church is heavily affiliated with Sanitarium, the company that makes weet-bix.
Very Informative. There was a noteworthy case in which Adventists and Witnesses were placed side by side in the same situation, the Rwandan Genocide. Rwanda had a surprising large population of Adventists, and the Witneseses had a small presence there when the genocide occurred, both groups were composed on both Hutu and Tutsi. While Adventists participated in the Genocide along with members of protestant and Catholic churches, dividing along ethnic lines, Witnesses didn't. Hutu witnesses hid and protected their Tutsi brothers and sisters. Clearly, the Witnesses are doing something right. The witnesses published an article on the topic "Remembering the Rwandan genocide 25 years on."
In the 19th century, a meager education in New England was not all that meager. W B Dubois, in the 1870's, commented that a New England high school education was often times better than any college education in the South. And at the time, illiteracy in many parts of the south exceeded 90%.
Judging from the South’s and the Midwest’s present day “beliefs” their illiteracy has not improved much. Without cash registers that tell you what the change is, my father used to be astonished that the supermarket check out cashier couldn’t make change.
regardless of your theist or atheist views, this man defines how history should be taught. I'd possibly have enjoyed history far more that the stale, dried sponge cake that was dished up to me in the 70s.
There’s a sense in which you do have to trudge through the ages and the major figures to get those imbedded. But agreed - teachers should have more free reign to talk in thematic sweeps. Curriculums in school are often as dry as they were in your time I suspect, not familiar with the 70s curriculum but we’ve had a lot of regress in history especially thanks to the Tory’s. It’s all about building national identity
Sounds like you should listen to the lecture again! Or just study the popular sensibilities of the time a bit more deeply. Connecting to people outside your own experience ( historical and/or cultural) is hard, but worth it, I think. Or at least it's worth attempting.
At 09:00 typical survivor's reaction to surviving a massacre. It must have been God's work. Ignoring, of course, the opinions of the far larger number of dead, who might disagree about such 'benevolence'.
I feel like this is a bit of an uncharitable lense to put on someone who has gone through something traumatic and who is looking for meaning and to make sense of the world. Perceiving a higher meaning in your own survival, even if it's the simple value of your own personal human life, is no more wrong headed than attributing it to random chance and deeming it arbitrary and meaningless, in my view at least.
@benoplustee I nearly died in a medical operation many years ago. As the mask went onto my face, I doubted I would ever be conscious again, ie it was my end. I was very surprised when I woke up. I realised I was lucky. I had another chance at lfe. I did not assume there was some higher purpose or meaning to it, no divine plan, I was not special in any way. I did not need to believe such a thing, which would have been a delusion. It was enough that I was still alive.
This was a superb lecture. Who would have thought trying to predict the end of the world from a anthology of cobbled together, censored, mistranslated, hagiographic, committee determined ( Council of Rome 382) would end in a Great Disappointment when in 1843 the world didn’t end?
Excellent, thank you. One small mistake but I'm sure it was a word slip. It wasn't Russell but rather Rutherford, the second president of the Bible Students, who was imprisoned in 1918 along with 7 others as a result of clergy inspired persecution due to their neutrality. As you accurately mention, the witnesses are among the most persecuted modern religious group and they are currently being beaten and imprisoned in Russia, as well as other countries, for their political neutrality.
It's fascinating because the SDA is still roundly criticized by its fellow Protestant denominations. Believe what you may about the SDA, they are one of the most impressive and organized movements I've ever seen.
They are fraught with internal arguments and constantly having new groups splinter off of them. The more they distance themselves from Ellen White's writings the more they will be closer to sanity.
I recalled recoiling when Goldwater said that, but I supported him beyond his own adherence to it. Late in life he married a liberal Jewish woman, and he never renounced Judaism completely, and I adhered to Judaism and opposed the drift to secular humanism. There was an article in WaPo in 2015 that dealt with the question of whether High Holidays services should refrain from touting Dem party themes because Republicans might be offended. The response was that there were no Republicans.
We have a somewhat similar but more deliberate dynamic going on in the States. " I believe God protected me to save America", paraphrasing Drumpf-- I mean Trump.
Apologies for the tangent, but as I've watched and enjoyed several of Prof. Ryrie's videos, I'm going to take a small bit of latitude! Mormomism is mentioned in passing here, and in a couple of other places by him. But his thesis -- and to be fair, theirs too! -- is that they're distinct from Protestantism, albeit arising from it. But as that's Ryrie's speciality, does that mean there's no hope of a lecture on the LDS movement (broadly or narrowly construed) from him? I hope otherwise!
Did I miss something? I was thinking that he would start off with American European Christian experience as he started off, South Africa’s And maybe show the similarities and the way the religion of Europe moved into both continents.
33:12 Back then, drinking lots of pure, *clean water* was most assuredly *very* good for the health of people who otherwise drank nasty polluted water.
The Professor is about 95% correct ( very high score)about Jehovah's witnesses. For example, Brother Russell didn't " try to save passers by from the torments of hell" because like first century Christians he did not believe that he'll or the pagan doctrine of the trinity was a Bible teaching Deut 6:4 .We will without fail give our life for Jehovah and his only begotten son Jesus Christ and our Brothers and Sisters regardless of Race or Cultural background and are strictly neutral regarding politics( we do not vote ).John 15:13. We love our neighbors and want them to enjoy peace with God and others, that's why we talk to any who will listen.Matt 24:14 Mark 12:31 1Cor 1:23 2Cor 5:19 A special thanks to the Professor for recognition of our uncompromising love for our neighbors and each other John 13:35
FOR EUROPEAN/ POLISH SOCIAL BALLROOM DANCES: POLONAISE AND MAZURKA ESSAYS, VIDEOS AND INSTRUCTIONS: GO TO THE INTERNET AND SEARCH FOR: ACADEMIA.EDU………..RAYMOND CWIEKA TO VIEW THE VIDEOS PASTE THE VIDEO - WORD - ESSAY TO A WORD DOCUMENT AND THEN CLICK & PRESS THE CTRL KEY ON THE VIDEO. ORIGINALLY THERE WERE SOME 49 BOOKS AND ESSAYS OF MINE.
'Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice' - actually it is. Extremism is bad. Going too extreme means going 'too far'. You aren't free to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre for example. You're also not free to marry your sister or sell your children.
This professor is a masterful lecturer. My interest is riveted to every topic he lectures on. Many thanks!
i do not know how i got here, but i am somewhat enjoing it.
guess i need to change what i want to study.
I can't read or hear about Adventist movements without thinking of that old Hitchens quote: "One imagines they suffer from a profound sense of anticlimax."
Tremendous stuff from Ryrie. This is how history should be told.
Yes, he is amazing.
I cannot stop watching his lectures.
His content and delivery are captivating.
Did I miss something? I was hoping to hear the beginning of this as I heard the beginning of south Africa’s European religious experience.
Really love to listen to Prof Alec Ryrie's insightful and superbly presented lectures. Thank you so much.
I wish all lectures were given by Alex Ryrie
i am a dis-associated witness. That means I left the society voluntarily. I need to declare my colors from the start. While I believe I was right to leave I bear no animosity to the society. Prof. Ryrie's analysis of the society is spot-on. His inclusion of more recent changes was especially informative. I found one shortcoming. He said that separation from the world is the main trait of the society. I would disagree. The individual Witnesses fear of stepping one toe out of line is driving force in their lives. Other than that they are more typical of normative Christianity than they or other denominations will ever admit.
Thanks so much much Professor Ryrie. Few lecturers could weave religious zealotry, the wider secular historical background and Kellogg's Cornflakes into a narrative which is funny, immensely touching and so educational. It incidentally illustrates aspects of both political movements (e. g. Marxism) and respectable religions who have adapted in the face of rapidly changing modernity.
Very well researched
The part about not selling the church's soul for breakfast cereal is very ironic to me because here in Australia the seventh-day adventist church is heavily affiliated with Sanitarium, the company that makes weet-bix.
Very Informative. There was a noteworthy case in which Adventists and Witnesses were placed side by side in the same situation, the Rwandan Genocide. Rwanda had a surprising large population of Adventists, and the Witneseses had a small presence there when the genocide occurred, both groups were composed on both Hutu and Tutsi. While Adventists participated in the Genocide along with members of protestant and Catholic churches, dividing along ethnic lines, Witnesses didn't. Hutu witnesses hid and protected their Tutsi brothers and sisters. Clearly, the Witnesses are doing something right. The witnesses published an article on the topic "Remembering the Rwandan genocide 25 years on."
Really interesting. Hope to find more sources on this
In the 19th century, a meager education in New England was not all that meager. W B Dubois, in the 1870's, commented that a New England high school education was often times better than any college education in the South. And at the time, illiteracy in many parts of the south exceeded 90%.
Judging from the South’s and the Midwest’s present day “beliefs” their illiteracy has not improved much. Without cash registers that tell you what the change is, my father used to be astonished that the supermarket check out cashier couldn’t make change.
regardless of your theist or atheist views, this man defines how history should be taught. I'd possibly have enjoyed history far more that the stale, dried sponge cake that was dished up to me in the 70s.
There’s a sense in which you do have to trudge through the ages and the major figures to get those imbedded. But agreed - teachers should have more free reign to talk in thematic sweeps. Curriculums in school are often as dry as they were in your time I suspect, not familiar with the 70s curriculum but we’ve had a lot of regress in history especially thanks to the Tory’s. It’s all about building national identity
I can't wrap my head around the success of these movements. Humans boggle my mind.
Sounds like you should listen to the lecture again! Or just study the popular sensibilities of the time a bit more deeply. Connecting to people outside your own experience ( historical and/or cultural) is hard, but worth it, I think. Or at least it's worth attempting.
At 09:00 typical survivor's reaction to surviving a massacre. It must have been God's work. Ignoring, of course, the opinions of the far larger number of dead, who might disagree about such 'benevolence'.
I feel like this is a bit of an uncharitable lense to put on someone who has gone through something traumatic and who is looking for meaning and to make sense of the world. Perceiving a higher meaning in your own survival, even if it's the simple value of your own personal human life, is no more wrong headed than attributing it to random chance and deeming it arbitrary and meaningless, in my view at least.
@benoplustee I nearly died in a medical operation many years ago. As the mask went onto my face, I doubted I would ever be conscious again, ie it was my end. I was very surprised when I woke up. I realised I was lucky. I had another chance at lfe. I did not assume there was some higher purpose or meaning to it, no divine plan, I was not special in any way. I did not need to believe such a thing, which would have been a delusion. It was enough that I was still alive.
This was a superb lecture. Who would have thought trying to predict the end of the world from a anthology of cobbled together, censored, mistranslated, hagiographic, committee determined ( Council of Rome 382) would end in a Great Disappointment when in 1843 the world didn’t end?
Excellent, thank you.
One small mistake but I'm sure it was a word slip. It wasn't Russell but rather Rutherford, the second president of the Bible Students, who was imprisoned in 1918 along with 7 others as a result of clergy inspired persecution due to their neutrality.
As you accurately mention, the witnesses are among the most persecuted modern religious group and they are currently being beaten and imprisoned in Russia, as well as other countries, for their political neutrality.
The Goldwater quote is from Thomas Paine
@Gareth Smith Can you link to a site confirming that Goldwater lifted his acceptance speech nugget from Thomas Paine? I cannot find anything.
Does anyone now believe that the USA is a Christian country? A great lecture, as usual.
nope, never was.
the opposite, in fact.
It's fascinating because the SDA is still roundly criticized by its fellow Protestant denominations. Believe what you may about the SDA, they are one of the most impressive and organized movements I've ever seen.
They are fraught with internal arguments and constantly having new groups splinter off of them.
The more they distance themselves from Ellen White's writings the more they will be closer to sanity.
@@thenowchurch6419 I agree. The smart ones distance themselves more from Ellen White's writings than the others. 😆
There is no arguing with their dietary practices.
Those who are strict adherents are some of the healthiest and longest lived people in the world...
@@joecaner I respect their focus on diet and healthy living. We could use a lot more attention to that in the American churches especially...
@@joecaner It is foolish to live healthy and long on earth and miss out on eternal life because of heresy.
I recalled recoiling when Goldwater said that, but I supported him beyond his own adherence to it. Late in life he married a liberal Jewish woman, and he never renounced Judaism completely, and I adhered to Judaism and opposed the drift to secular humanism. There was an article in WaPo in 2015 that dealt with the question of whether High Holidays services should refrain from touting Dem party themes because Republicans might be offended. The response was that there were no Republicans.
We have a somewhat similar but more deliberate dynamic going on in the States. " I believe God protected me to save America", paraphrasing Drumpf-- I mean Trump.
Apologies for the tangent, but as I've watched and enjoyed several of Prof. Ryrie's videos, I'm going to take a small bit of latitude! Mormomism is mentioned in passing here, and in a couple of other places by him. But his thesis -- and to be fair, theirs too! -- is that they're distinct from Protestantism, albeit arising from it. But as that's Ryrie's speciality, does that mean there's no hope of a lecture on the LDS movement (broadly or narrowly construed) from him? I hope otherwise!
46:00 the JWs under Russel pre Bertrand - the Watchtower
There must be some kind of way outta here
Said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
- Bob Dylan
Except Jerusalem fell in 586//587 BCE
Nero and Hadrian would like a word..
Did I miss something? I was thinking that he would start off with American European Christian experience as he started off, South Africa’s And maybe show the similarities and the way the religion of Europe moved into both continents.
Andrew Johnson the future vice president? Or Andrew Jackson the president in 1828?
Andrew Johnson was v.p. to Lincoln, so became the 17th president when Lincoln was assassinated in 1865.
33:12 Back then, drinking lots of pure, *clean water* was most assuredly *very* good for the health of people who otherwise drank nasty polluted water.
RonJohn63
RonJohn63
RonJohn63 l
fey
The Professor is about 95% correct ( very high score)about Jehovah's witnesses. For example, Brother Russell didn't " try to save passers by from the torments of hell" because like first century Christians he did not believe that he'll or the pagan doctrine of the trinity was a Bible teaching Deut 6:4 .We will without fail give our life for Jehovah and his only begotten son Jesus Christ and our Brothers and Sisters regardless of Race or Cultural background and are strictly neutral regarding politics( we do not vote ).John 15:13. We love our neighbors and want them to enjoy peace with God and others, that's why we talk to any who will listen.Matt 24:14 Mark 12:31 1Cor 1:23 2Cor 5:19 A special thanks to the Professor for recognition of our uncompromising love for our neighbors and each other John 13:35
but what about Poland?,,,
FOR EUROPEAN/ POLISH SOCIAL BALLROOM DANCES: POLONAISE AND MAZURKA ESSAYS, VIDEOS AND INSTRUCTIONS: GO TO THE INTERNET AND SEARCH FOR: ACADEMIA.EDU………..RAYMOND CWIEKA
TO VIEW THE VIDEOS PASTE THE VIDEO - WORD - ESSAY TO A WORD
DOCUMENT AND THEN CLICK & PRESS THE CTRL KEY ON THE VIDEO.
ORIGINALLY THERE WERE SOME 49 BOOKS AND ESSAYS OF MINE.
"Now, like most sect founders, the last thing Russell wanted to do was found a sect" 😂
Harold Camping
'Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice' - actually it is. Extremism is bad. Going too extreme means going 'too far'. You aren't free to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre for example. You're also not free to marry your sister or sell your children.
23:00 lol
veri
Goldwater is a moderate by current G.O.P standards.