The Schiavona Sabre is one of history's more successful hybrid weapons. After trade with northern Italy after the height of the renaissance, foreign countries came to liking the Schiavona's style, but some would remake the hilt on a curved blade, becoming a favored cavalry weapon.
It's been 3 years to date, time to ask some questions! How does the schiavona feels on the hand compared with the baskethilt sabre? Is it more cumbersome or does one has more agility over the other.
4:14 seems a paradox, the curvature of such sabre, is not only meant to be effective with cuts, but also can go around the opponent's blade in thrusting, which would not be possible with a straight blade. So saying that a curved sword are not appropriate for thrusting must be wrong, yes it might be more effective to thrust with a straight blade but also as balanced is generally more effective to cut with a curved one.
i think that in reality a curved blade is just a bit more confusing to parry, it doesn't always just get around the opponent by virtue of this then ultimately it's harder to get the force behind the curved blade when the only way of damaging a semi armoured (they'd likely have leather or something at least).... is literally to shove it right in them (there's barely any weight with an epee or fencing sword, you couldn't bash someone with) so these sabres (whatever they are lol), they're curved to slash people
Great video, guys! I have a curiosity: what style are you using? Is it based on sources from the time period your weapons simulate (17th-18th centuries), or on more modern 19th century sabre sources, or a hybrid of both? P.S. A word of appreciation for the person holding the camera: these videos are so much better with a mobile camera than a fixed one! It also helps that you two keep the fight on a single broad line, instead of circling each other (which is pretty bad for the viewer, especially with a fixed camera).
Thanks. We didn't aim for a style here, we just fought. We study a number of styles, but here is really were fighting from our sabre experience, as taught from Roworth's 1798 manual. It is for sabre, and broadsword (basket hilt), so is well suited, and also realistic for the weapons in the 18th century.
Would it be possible for you to tell me the specs of that Schiavona sabre? I am looking to have one made, and I am very much interested in one much like Mike's. Thanks. Great video as always.
It's just a particular style/shape of basket hilt that became popular initially in Italy and then other parts of Europe. A typical example of the hilt is shown below. Usually they have a relatively substantial double edged straight blade of around 34", but some examples can be found with sabre, backsword or rapier blades too. Besides it's characteristic shape, and cats head pommel, they usually have a thumb ring, as is commonly found on a lot of 17th century swords like Polish sabres, Walloon swords and Tessacks. media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/15911/15827426_2.jpg?v=8CFF30071048340
Very very similar. This training Schiavona, like most reproductions, allow the index finger to wrap the quillion like a sidesword or rapier, where most original Schiavona do not have space for this. Also he had a thumb ring, so that allows two different grip types that the more enclosed English/Scottish type basket does not. Also the Schiavona sabre is a good bit lighter in the tip than the other. So overall in this fight, the Schiavona had a little more flexibility and agility, but the other (Turcael the Scots would call it), had the cutting power.
The handling is beautiful. The hilt is small and accurately proportioned, the thumb ring is well placed, and the blade is excellent. The only issue we had is that it took a set in some thrusts, but then many blades do, and it is very cheap for the overall handling and quality. Mike had one that cost well over double the price just before it and it handled and was proportioned horribly.
The sword I am using (Nick) can go by many names. It roughly resembles a dussack, but Mike's Schiavona does not. A training weapon can represent a number of different weapons providing it handles in the correct way. Just as the Storta can and will be used as a cutlass.
Schiavona is its own type of basket hilt, stylistically, though in practice it is no different to what would be on a dussack/tessak in use. Schiavona are usually straight, but the tessak is usually curved, and those are defining characteristics of the two. Also schiavona tend to have longer blades, as here, it is almost 2" longer.
It is from the Polish sabre I got from Damian Tylko, who sells very cheap off the shelf sabres. They are far from perfect and can be seen in a few other videos that I have done. Main issue is that their is too much mass in the tip for what we want to represent for our sabre practice. Also the grip is very small for fitting gloves in, and the thin brass guard is destroyed quickly.
They are almost always straight yes, and double edged, of typical sidesword type. But the Schiavona was such a popular hilt type that it can be found on other blades too, such as backswords, sabres, and even rapiers. These are far less common, but there are surviving examples of all. Mike is a huge fan of the Schiavona, so he has sparring versions of a typical sidesword example, a rapier type, and this sabre model (as well as one original). Below is an example of an original sabre schiavona. Today we so often try to fit sword types into specific classes, but the reality is that historical variety was vast. s1337.photobucket.com/user/AlaeSwords/media/AlaeSwords108/schiavona3_zps1c6241e0.jpg.html
Thanks for the reply. I was genuinely curious and the example you gave was gorgeous. I actually found this video looking for more information on schiavonas. Great channel btw, earned yourself a new sub.
No problem, and yes it most certainly is a beautiful example. One thing to bear in mind that makes the Schiavona different to typical sideswords is the grip type. Very few have the space to wrap the finger over the quillion like a sidesword or rapier, and almost all have a thumb ring, like is found on many cavalry swords of the 17th century, and early 18th.
If I were to study a system with the intent of using this type of sword would you suggest a saber system? I've never seen any Schiavona specific manuals. I've been suggested to look at backsword and broadsword manuals, but I wonder what fits it's properties best.
There is likely no documented system because it is predominately a military type of sword, and most manuals written before the late 18th century revolved around swords worn in civilian wear. Though it does well fit into the basket hilt category. It's heavy blade, and grip type means it is quite a close match to a Scottish or English backsword/broadsword. The Scots also had basket hilts with sabre blades, these are well documented with surviving examples, and the one I use in this fight is representative of that, they called them Turcaels. There are also plenty of examples of English basket hilt sabres in the mid 18th century. Throughout the 18th century, the basket hilt broadsword and sabre were taught according to the same methods, as we do in the club. I'd check out manuals like Donald McBane, and Angelo's Highland Broadsword, as well as Roworth's manual on broadsword and sabre as we use.
We certainly do! In fact we train longsword regularly. Do some searches for longsword on our channel and you will find some. And also on my older personal channel, HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas. The two of us in this video are the instructors in the club. We both train all weapons used in the club, however we do specialise. Personally I (Nick) don't enjoy two handed swords nearly as much as one handed, and all of the combinations that one handed swords bring. I also far prefer renaissance swords to medieval, when many longswords had moved to more complex/compound guards that I find more interesting. Though few good smiths make them. Certainly with a greater array of renaissance two handers I could be tempted to spar with them more. I'll try to get some more longsword videos upon soon, as well as Kreigsmesser and zweihander/montante.
Schiavona is just a hilt type, they can be fitted with a range of blades. A broad double edged sidesword type of blade is the most common, but originals can be found with backsword, rapier and sabre blades. An original example with curved blade shown below. Fitting things into such strict and neat categories is a very modern perspective on things. As Mike is very much a fan of the Schiavona, he has three training versions, a typical double edges broad blade, a rapier, and a sabre as shown in this video. s1337.photobucket.com/user/AlaeSwords/media/AlaeSwords108/schiavona3_zps1c6241e0.jpg.html
The Schiavona Sabre is one of history's more successful hybrid weapons. After trade with northern Italy after the height of the renaissance, foreign countries came to liking the Schiavona's style, but some would remake the hilt on a curved blade, becoming a favored cavalry weapon.
They are still very rare though. The vast majority of Schiavonas are straight.
0:17 He feinted to end him rightly.
I love that schiavona sabre so much
Beautiful Defense on both sides.
Can you guys do one on the German dussack
I wonder what the people are thinking who are driving by in their cars. :)
It's been 3 years to date, time to ask some questions!
How does the schiavona feels on the hand compared with the baskethilt sabre? Is it more cumbersome or does one has more agility over the other.
Is this wet grass as slippery as it looks ?
Sure is. It's generally slippery there compared to the wooden floors we normally train on, but if it has rained recently you sure do notice it.
4:14 seems a paradox, the curvature of such sabre, is not only meant to be effective with cuts, but also can go around the opponent's blade in thrusting, which would not be possible with a straight blade. So saying that a curved sword are not appropriate for thrusting must be wrong, yes it might be more effective to thrust with a straight blade but also as balanced is generally more effective to cut with a curved one.
i think that in reality a curved blade is just a bit more confusing to parry, it doesn't always just get around the opponent by virtue of this
then ultimately it's harder to get the force behind the curved blade when the only way of damaging a semi armoured (they'd likely have leather or something at least).... is literally to shove it right in them (there's barely any weight with an epee or fencing sword, you couldn't bash someone with)
so these sabres (whatever they are lol), they're curved to slash people
Great video, guys!
I have a curiosity: what style are you using?
Is it based on sources from the time period your weapons simulate (17th-18th centuries), or on more modern 19th century sabre sources, or a hybrid of both?
P.S. A word of appreciation for the person holding the camera: these videos are so much better with a mobile camera than a fixed one!
It also helps that you two keep the fight on a single broad line, instead of circling each other (which is pretty bad for the viewer, especially with a fixed camera).
Thanks. We didn't aim for a style here, we just fought. We study a number of styles, but here is really were fighting from our sabre experience, as taught from Roworth's 1798 manual. It is for sabre, and broadsword (basket hilt), so is well suited, and also realistic for the weapons in the 18th century.
Academy of Historical Fencing
Great, thanks!
Would it be possible for you to tell me the specs of that Schiavona sabre? I am looking to have one made, and I am very much interested in one much like Mike's. Thanks. Great video as always.
1260g, with 84cm blade. POB 12cm
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thanks!
What exactly is a schiavona? The only difference I noticed between the two weapons is that Mike has one quillon.
It's just a particular style/shape of basket hilt that became popular initially in Italy and then other parts of Europe. A typical example of the hilt is shown below. Usually they have a relatively substantial double edged straight blade of around 34", but some examples can be found with sabre, backsword or rapier blades too. Besides it's characteristic shape, and cats head pommel, they usually have a thumb ring, as is commonly found on a lot of 17th century swords like Polish sabres, Walloon swords and Tessacks.
media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/15911/15827426_2.jpg?v=8CFF30071048340
Academy of Historical Fencing So are the two weapons in this video functionally equal? I guess Mike could extend his wrist a bit more.
Very very similar. This training Schiavona, like most reproductions, allow the index finger to wrap the quillion like a sidesword or rapier, where most original Schiavona do not have space for this. Also he had a thumb ring, so that allows two different grip types that the more enclosed English/Scottish type basket does not. Also the Schiavona sabre is a good bit lighter in the tip than the other. So overall in this fight, the Schiavona had a little more flexibility and agility, but the other (Turcael the Scots would call it), had the cutting power.
I am thinking of getting a schiavona saber, have you had any issues with it handling wise? How does it perform?
The handling is beautiful. The hilt is small and accurately proportioned, the thumb ring is well placed, and the blade is excellent. The only issue we had is that it took a set in some thrusts, but then many blades do, and it is very cheap for the overall handling and quality. Mike had one that cost well over double the price just before it and it handled and was proportioned horribly.
Interesting fight. Where did you get that schiavona from, and how much is it, if I may ask?
Swordsmithy (CZ), see his FB page. It was about 360 euros I think.
I already noticed his work, thank you!:)
why don't call it dussack?
The sword I am using (Nick) can go by many names. It roughly resembles a dussack, but Mike's Schiavona does not. A training weapon can represent a number of different weapons providing it handles in the correct way. Just as the Storta can and will be used as a cutlass.
What's the difference between the two weapons?
Schiavona is its own type of basket hilt, stylistically, though in practice it is no different to what would be on a dussack/tessak in use. Schiavona are usually straight, but the tessak is usually curved, and those are defining characteristics of the two. Also schiavona tend to have longer blades, as here, it is almost 2" longer.
Academy of Historical Fencing Ok, I was confused because the schiavona seemed to be curved as well. So in practice it's purely a matter of length?
What's the blade component from the thrown together dussack?
It is from the Polish sabre I got from Damian Tylko, who sells very cheap off the shelf sabres. They are far from perfect and can be seen in a few other videos that I have done. Main issue is that their is too much mass in the tip for what we want to represent for our sabre practice. Also the grip is very small for fitting gloves in, and the thin brass guard is destroyed quickly.
Academy of Historical Fencing Thanks
Every schiavona I've seen has been straight, more like a side sword. Is there a particular reason this one is curved?
They are almost always straight yes, and double edged, of typical sidesword type. But the Schiavona was such a popular hilt type that it can be found on other blades too, such as backswords, sabres, and even rapiers. These are far less common, but there are surviving examples of all. Mike is a huge fan of the Schiavona, so he has sparring versions of a typical sidesword example, a rapier type, and this sabre model (as well as one original).
Below is an example of an original sabre schiavona. Today we so often try to fit sword types into specific classes, but the reality is that historical variety was vast.
s1337.photobucket.com/user/AlaeSwords/media/AlaeSwords108/schiavona3_zps1c6241e0.jpg.html
Thanks for the reply. I was genuinely curious and the example you gave was gorgeous. I actually found this video looking for more information on schiavonas. Great channel btw, earned yourself a new sub.
No problem, and yes it most certainly is a beautiful example. One thing to bear in mind that makes the Schiavona different to typical sideswords is the grip type. Very few have the space to wrap the finger over the quillion like a sidesword or rapier, and almost all have a thumb ring, like is found on many cavalry swords of the 17th century, and early 18th.
If I were to study a system with the intent of using this type of sword would you suggest a saber system? I've never seen any Schiavona specific manuals. I've been suggested to look at backsword and broadsword manuals, but I wonder what fits it's properties best.
There is likely no documented system because it is predominately a military type of sword, and most manuals written before the late 18th century revolved around swords worn in civilian wear. Though it does well fit into the basket hilt category. It's heavy blade, and grip type means it is quite a close match to a Scottish or English backsword/broadsword. The Scots also had basket hilts with sabre blades, these are well documented with surviving examples, and the one I use in this fight is representative of that, they called them Turcaels. There are also plenty of examples of English basket hilt sabres in the mid 18th century. Throughout the 18th century, the basket hilt broadsword and sabre were taught according to the same methods, as we do in the club. I'd check out manuals like Donald McBane, and Angelo's Highland Broadsword, as well as Roworth's manual on broadsword and sabre as we use.
It seems like you guys fight a lot with one handed swords.. ever train with two-handed swords?
We certainly do! In fact we train longsword regularly. Do some searches for longsword on our channel and you will find some. And also on my older personal channel, HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas. The two of us in this video are the instructors in the club. We both train all weapons used in the club, however we do specialise. Personally I (Nick) don't enjoy two handed swords nearly as much as one handed, and all of the combinations that one handed swords bring.
I also far prefer renaissance swords to medieval, when many longswords had moved to more complex/compound guards that I find more interesting. Though few good smiths make them. Certainly with a greater array of renaissance two handers I could be tempted to spar with them more. I'll try to get some more longsword videos upon soon, as well as Kreigsmesser and zweihander/montante.
Who's Nick and who's Mike?
Nick is the one on the right.
Διακριτός Ναυσικίδης
Thanks
No prob :)
They're clones.
I wish I didn't have asthma so I could at least spar with someone
I take it you have tried inhalers?
Katana vs dandao
Neither one of those is a schiavona, way too curved. A schiavona is supposed to be completely straight. Nice saber skills, though.
Schiavona is just a hilt type, they can be fitted with a range of blades. A broad double edged sidesword type of blade is the most common, but originals can be found with backsword, rapier and sabre blades. An original example with curved blade shown below. Fitting things into such strict and neat categories is a very modern perspective on things. As Mike is very much a fan of the Schiavona, he has three training versions, a typical double edges broad blade, a rapier, and a sabre as shown in this video.
s1337.photobucket.com/user/AlaeSwords/media/AlaeSwords108/schiavona3_zps1c6241e0.jpg.html
Booooo I thought it was basket hilted broadswords!!!
No pleasing some people!
It's in the title :)
well curved single blades are starting to grow on me cuz u guys kinda look like bad ass pirates XD