I forgot about CSJ and that whole 'buy INFPs a coffee to butter them up' thing 😂 It would surely take a lot more than that. I suppose there is some truth in it, at least when I was younger and accepted all sorts of ENTP gifts, thinking there weren't strings attached 😅
That insight, and a cup of coffee, will buy you an INFP! 😉 CSJ, at least the old version before he started going really weird, had an ability to start with a kernel of truth and then draw a bunch of wrong conclusions. But what do I know, I'm an ISFJ under his system.
@@dulles1969 Yeah it's funny, the old videos still have elements which really ring true and was actually refreshing compared to the other INFP information I could find at the time. But as he himself admitted, he lies all the time, which he explains he does by starting with a grain of truth and going from there. Although yeah, now he's got his own strange issues going on (with the most entertaining comment section I've ever seen)
@@vondelpete That's what drew me to CSJ too, initially. Someone willing to critique not just praise. Which would be great -- if it were at all accurate. And the comments section? Truly. bizarre. I'm glad it's not just me.
I just want to clarify that synesthesia is not always correlated to whether i like or dislike a person. I appreciate Fe users and their sincere acts of love but i don't appreciate when they judge me and force me to do things their way or i am "wrong" and "selfish" for not really knowing how to respond the correct way to social cues. But yes i think that with time i have gotten better at being open minded and compassionate. It isn't always easy for others to see into our world if we are unwilling to put ourselves in their shoes.
Totally agree, your video on synesthesia was the kernel of the idea, but this video was a completely separate leap. It started with my thinking: "well, I don't associate people with colors. But do I associate people with anything. Wait -- feelings?" And considered how tangible those feelings are. It all went from there. And yes, Fe users that try to manipulate through implicit social contracts, yuck... there's the assumption that we're starting from a place of mutual goodwill. Thank you for these thoughts!!
“Smarmy”. I like that word haha I can’t say I can understand the concepts you're putting out there in their entirety because I’m not an Fi user. I like to keep concepts like this “in my back pocket” to watch out for and understand more fully later on. I really like that you are advocating for Fi users to extrovert their feelings or “what’s in their heart”. It really is a gift even if it’s awkward, it’s SO wonderful. Actually, as an Fe user myself, I would say the cringier the better to be honest hahaha.
To mesh it in a bit with Si, especially in regard to the idea of synesthesia (and I feel keeping this less detailed leaves a lot of room for optimism in directions I don't initially see so I'll try to let people make this their own), Fe and Te are like a field on the outside of a person that if they are in the right situation and put forth the right effort can expand inward enough that it seems like Fi or Ti. Fi and Ti are a field inside of a person that if they were to really exert the stress to do it, it can expand outside to seem like Fe or Te. But really Fi and Ti have their own space within a person that they are comfortable with, and thus Fi users may seem to communicate more through Ne or Se, and even through Te as proxies for their Fi, and Ti users may use Ne, Se, or Fe in the same way to bridge the gap. I'm not really advocating for anyone to push their Fi or Ti on the outside, or use Fe or Te to explore their inside. But I believe that the unconscious is truly hard to reach, and the Fe of an INFP for example shows up more through their Ne than any natural exhibition of Fe (just my view). What this ends up showing is that outside of a distorted view of making say a Te user's Ti "come out" (I don't believe in this), I find that the Te user's actual internal compass is Fi based. So they will have a good intention, many of them see logical ways of implementing it ,but lack an understanding of some negative implications that could be looped back, but are often painful because Ti users have Fe, and then act as if the internal feelings of the Te user are wrong. What is more accurate is that I have to care for them, keep and acknowledge the good intentions they have, and help them to form those in such a way that the negative possibilities that I saw are eliminated. I think we all mature beyond any given model, but this view has given me the kindness not to judge another as if they were me, because they all work differently, and just like anyone else that realizes these differences, I would want the same kindness in turn. To be fair going the other way, as I don't want to make it as if Ti or Fi is always correct, I'll point out that in my experience, I have used Ti to be too prohibitive of Te users in a way that stopped them from achieving something important because of concerns that may or may not happen. They were very bothered by "possibilities" preventing necessities at that time, and they were more than a bit right. I don't want the view given that Ti is always right and that it's a one way street, the same is true of Fi and Fe.
This is an excellent observation and (if I'm not misrepresenting your point) so very correct... certain function pairs can look like other functions. So, like Si+Fe can look like Fi, and Si+Te can look like Ti. But it's imperfect. And those internal judging functions can lock down hard (Fi famously, but Ti ain't innocent). Once a person assumes their internal evaluations backed by Si/Ni perceptions are correct and its part of their reality ... good luck changing their mind. It can be done, but only by reaching the person the right way. For your wisdom to work from a place where we're all different and approach those differences with kindness, expecting the same in return -- you deserve to reap the kindness you sow, and more! 😊 And on the topic of judging, there are times I've tried peoples' patience by asking question, and prying and prying about some position they hold. It's just because I'd like to understand and map it out -- it's all input. And then I realize I've really overdone it. When I do that, I now try to remember to end by thanking people for their patience in dealing with my questions...
@@dulles1969 Well, I do find a general flow of thought in people to be that you can emulate a shadow function (or something along those lines). I have seen many interesting views that showed me different things, but this is the most popular one. What I see directly is that for an INFP, their Ni is linked to their Fi as a foundational basis, and so Ni will occur naturally in certain ways in an INFP's Fi, but the Ni won't directly violate Ne or Fi. So then issues that affect an INFP's Fi, when it's kind of acting wonky are probably issues more in the space of Ni. The problem there is that if you consider information elements, Ni operates and is concerned in a different space from Fi, so I see every type doing this, but for an INFP, they'll be trying to move in the spaces and ways Fi can move to resolve an issue that Ni could solve that sometimes Fi cannot solve. I like to take theories like this seriously, but also I think the models are never fully perfect, and I switch back and forth. This theory to me seems the most accurate at the moment, and maybe that simply means that it's the most meaningful and fun to live in for now. Perhaps later on, I'll be a firm believer for a while in the idea that an ISFJ's Si and Fe together can emulate Fi (but then how is Se emulated? What differentiates these functions from being emulated varies from theorist to theorist that subscribes to this. Some theories also link a part of Se emulation to Te that then I wouldn't ever have in my emulation unless I was emulating Te too). Also, in terms of Fi and Ti locking, I feel like both can be reasonable, or overly lock on in unfair ways. My favorite situation is the meta where people realize this, and then they are being unfair, but want to give the aesthetic of being reasonable. It feels like it would be a great Key & Peele sketch. The only big difference to me is that Ti locks onto actions that logically link to things (i.e. if a person is running out of a store, they MUST have stolen something!!!.. it can't be that they're late to something). I think there are times that Fi is correct to approach something, and times that Ti is, and when it's the wrong function for the job, there can be a bit of spill over into other areas because the function tries to be more powerful to reach what it needs to reach. As far as CSJ goes, at least he wants to buy you a coffee. I wonder if he's editted it out but he used to brag about how much punishment ISFJ's can take, and say that to ego hack them, "just don't give them any information". Buy someone a coffee vs leaving them in the dark with important matters...
Since INFP’s usually (not always) try very hard to see the best in you, it is so painful to let them down and see the dissapointment almost in their soul. Luckily an apology from the heart goes a long way in restoring the status quo (it needs to be heartfelt). Seeing the best in people is maybe naive from one point of view, but it also feels so nice to have someone in this world see the best in you! And I really think that it brings out the best in people. And I dont think inspiring others to be their best selves is naive in the least😊 Question: Why do not INFP’s seem to see the best in their own selves, like they do others? To me they seem to judge themselves on a different wavelength than they do other people. But maybe this is not what is really going on. I dont know. Just an impression I have made. Many seem to me to be tortured souls that can give other people wings. Well, I for one, just want to see an INFP fly for once!
I have a take on that question, summed up as: "With awareness comes responsibility." It's an issue to figure out the right thing to do, and then fail to do it. (That said, while I have zero evidence to back it, I'd guess that INFPs on the whole are happier than they might sometimes seem).😊
@@dulles1969Ah. That is good to know that there is happiness in there. And for INFP maybe happiness is not ”the goal” per se. It is however a truly lovely spectacle when it comes out of hiding :)
I forgot about CSJ and that whole 'buy INFPs a coffee to butter them up' thing 😂 It would surely take a lot more than that. I suppose there is some truth in it, at least when I was younger and accepted all sorts of ENTP gifts, thinking there weren't strings attached 😅
That insight, and a cup of coffee, will buy you an INFP! 😉 CSJ, at least the old version before he started going really weird, had an ability to start with a kernel of truth and then draw a bunch of wrong conclusions. But what do I know, I'm an ISFJ under his system.
@@dulles1969 Yeah it's funny, the old videos still have elements which really ring true and was actually refreshing compared to the other INFP information I could find at the time. But as he himself admitted, he lies all the time, which he explains he does by starting with a grain of truth and going from there. Although yeah, now he's got his own strange issues going on (with the most entertaining comment section I've ever seen)
@@vondelpete That's what drew me to CSJ too, initially. Someone willing to critique not just praise. Which would be great -- if it were at all accurate.
And the comments section? Truly. bizarre. I'm glad it's not just me.
I just want to clarify that synesthesia is not always correlated to whether i like or dislike a person.
I appreciate Fe users and their sincere acts of love but i don't appreciate when they judge me and force me to do things their way or i am "wrong" and "selfish" for not really knowing how to respond the correct way to social cues.
But yes i think that with time i have gotten better at being open minded and compassionate. It isn't always easy for others to see into our world if we are unwilling to put ourselves in their shoes.
Totally agree, your video on synesthesia was the kernel of the idea, but this video was a completely separate leap. It started with my thinking: "well, I don't associate people with colors. But do I associate people with anything. Wait -- feelings?" And considered how tangible those feelings are. It all went from there.
And yes, Fe users that try to manipulate through implicit social contracts, yuck... there's the assumption that we're starting from a place of mutual goodwill. Thank you for these thoughts!!
“Smarmy”. I like that word haha
I can’t say I can understand the concepts you're putting out there in their entirety because I’m not an Fi user. I like to keep concepts like this “in my back pocket” to watch out for and understand more fully later on.
I really like that you are advocating for Fi users to extrovert their feelings or “what’s in their heart”. It really is a gift even if it’s awkward, it’s SO wonderful. Actually, as an Fe user myself,
I would say the cringier the better to be honest hahaha.
To mesh it in a bit with Si, especially in regard to the idea of synesthesia (and I feel keeping this less detailed leaves a lot of room for optimism in directions I don't initially see so I'll try to let people make this their own), Fe and Te are like a field on the outside of a person that if they are in the right situation and put forth the right effort can expand inward enough that it seems like Fi or Ti.
Fi and Ti are a field inside of a person that if they were to really exert the stress to do it, it can expand outside to seem like Fe or Te. But really Fi and Ti have their own space within a person that they are comfortable with, and thus Fi users may seem to communicate more through Ne or Se, and even through Te as proxies for their Fi, and Ti users may use Ne, Se, or Fe in the same way to bridge the gap.
I'm not really advocating for anyone to push their Fi or Ti on the outside, or use Fe or Te to explore their inside. But I believe that the unconscious is truly hard to reach, and the Fe of an INFP for example shows up more through their Ne than any natural exhibition of Fe (just my view).
What this ends up showing is that outside of a distorted view of making say a Te user's Ti "come out" (I don't believe in this), I find that the Te user's actual internal compass is Fi based. So they will have a good intention, many of them see logical ways of implementing it ,but lack an understanding of some negative implications that could be looped back, but are often painful because Ti users have Fe, and then act as if the internal feelings of the Te user are wrong. What is more accurate is that I have to care for them, keep and acknowledge the good intentions they have, and help them to form those in such a way that the negative possibilities that I saw are eliminated.
I think we all mature beyond any given model, but this view has given me the kindness not to judge another as if they were me, because they all work differently, and just like anyone else that realizes these differences, I would want the same kindness in turn.
To be fair going the other way, as I don't want to make it as if Ti or Fi is always correct, I'll point out that in my experience, I have used Ti to be too prohibitive of Te users in a way that stopped them from achieving something important because of concerns that may or may not happen. They were very bothered by "possibilities" preventing necessities at that time, and they were more than a bit right. I don't want the view given that Ti is always right and that it's a one way street, the same is true of Fi and Fe.
This is an excellent observation and (if I'm not misrepresenting your point) so very correct... certain function pairs can look like other functions. So, like Si+Fe can look like Fi, and Si+Te can look like Ti. But it's imperfect.
And those internal judging functions can lock down hard (Fi famously, but Ti ain't innocent). Once a person assumes their internal evaluations backed by Si/Ni perceptions are correct and its part of their reality ... good luck changing their mind. It can be done, but only by reaching the person the right way.
For your wisdom to work from a place where we're all different and approach those differences with kindness, expecting the same in return -- you deserve to reap the kindness you sow, and more! 😊
And on the topic of judging, there are times I've tried peoples' patience by asking question, and prying and prying about some position they hold. It's just because I'd like to understand and map it out -- it's all input. And then I realize I've really overdone it. When I do that, I now try to remember to end by thanking people for their patience in dealing with my questions...
@@dulles1969 Well, I do find a general flow of thought in people to be that you can emulate a shadow function (or something along those lines). I have seen many interesting views that showed me different things, but this is the most popular one.
What I see directly is that for an INFP, their Ni is linked to their Fi as a foundational basis, and so Ni will occur naturally in certain ways in an INFP's Fi, but the Ni won't directly violate Ne or Fi. So then issues that affect an INFP's Fi, when it's kind of acting wonky are probably issues more in the space of Ni.
The problem there is that if you consider information elements, Ni operates and is concerned in a different space from Fi, so I see every type doing this, but for an INFP, they'll be trying to move in the spaces and ways Fi can move to resolve an issue that Ni could solve that sometimes Fi cannot solve.
I like to take theories like this seriously, but also I think the models are never fully perfect, and I switch back and forth. This theory to me seems the most accurate at the moment, and maybe that simply means that it's the most meaningful and fun to live in for now. Perhaps later on, I'll be a firm believer for a while in the idea that an ISFJ's Si and Fe together can emulate Fi (but then how is Se emulated? What differentiates these functions from being emulated varies from theorist to theorist that subscribes to this. Some theories also link a part of Se emulation to Te that then I wouldn't ever have in my emulation unless I was emulating Te too).
Also, in terms of Fi and Ti locking, I feel like both can be reasonable, or overly lock on in unfair ways. My favorite situation is the meta where people realize this, and then they are being unfair, but want to give the aesthetic of being reasonable. It feels like it would be a great Key & Peele sketch. The only big difference to me is that Ti locks onto actions that logically link to things (i.e. if a person is running out of a store, they MUST have stolen something!!!.. it can't be that they're late to something).
I think there are times that Fi is correct to approach something, and times that Ti is, and when it's the wrong function for the job, there can be a bit of spill over into other areas because the function tries to be more powerful to reach what it needs to reach.
As far as CSJ goes, at least he wants to buy you a coffee. I wonder if he's editted it out but he used to brag about how much punishment ISFJ's can take, and say that to ego hack them, "just don't give them any information". Buy someone a coffee vs leaving them in the dark with important matters...
Since INFP’s usually (not always) try very hard to see the best in you, it is so painful to let them down and see the dissapointment almost in their soul. Luckily an apology from the heart goes a long way in restoring the status quo (it needs to be heartfelt). Seeing the best in people is maybe naive from one point of view, but it also feels so nice to have someone in this world see the best in you! And I really think that it brings out the best in people. And I dont think inspiring others to be their best selves is naive in the least😊
Question: Why do not INFP’s seem to see the best in their own selves, like they do others? To me they seem to judge themselves on a different wavelength than they do other people. But maybe this is not what is really going on. I dont know. Just an impression I have made. Many seem to me to be tortured souls that can give other people wings. Well, I for one, just want to see an INFP fly for once!
I have a take on that question, summed up as: "With awareness comes responsibility." It's an issue to figure out the right thing to do, and then fail to do it.
(That said, while I have zero evidence to back it, I'd guess that INFPs on the whole are happier than they might sometimes seem).😊
@@dulles1969Ah. That is good to know that there is happiness in there. And for INFP maybe happiness is not ”the goal” per se. It is however a truly lovely spectacle when it comes out of hiding :)