Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than UA-cam by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse 05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’ 11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations 19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children? 36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children? 44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way? 56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children? 1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates 1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy 1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates 1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time. Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.
@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁
There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.
I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.
@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.
Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life. Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone. So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late. Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.
When I was very young, I remember many very good intentioned people (in my family and community) telling me, ‘Don’t get a girl pregnant or it’ll ruin your future’. I was petrified to get a girl pregnant’. Then by the time I was in a position to have a decent job (after all my schooling was done) and my wife and I tried to have a baby it wasn’t working out. We then were told by medical professionals that a woman’s eggs are “old” by about 34 Y.O. ! We spent many years secretly depressed, desperate and looking for help. Every time someone asked me “if” or “why” I didn’t have a child it would almost put me in panic. It was awful. Our friends kids were growing up…we were stuck…..it sucked, A LOT. This went on for about 14 years. Finally, we found the help we needed, payed a lot of money and got very lucky. But there was no way we were going to be able to have another child due to my wife’s issues. We wanted 2 or 3 kids. But, I feel I am the luckiest guy to have my child. I wished we started a lot younger. Sorry it’s a long story despite leaving out 95% of the story
Most people try to ignore stories like yours. My wife and I have been so lucky with our 5 kids. We're young enough to keep up with them, have a good time. They're thriving, my wife gets to be a stay at home mom which she loves. Im happy you guys got your child though!
I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.
That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.
@@kc6810 my mum retrained as a teacher when I was in primary school. I remember her taking us with her to the University library on weekends, we'd be there all day. This was early 2000s though, so much cheaper back then
When you can't afford a home and when 2 parents have to work at least 40 hours a week (often more) and when health care is so expensive why is it a mystery that responsible people think it's not responsible to have children.
exactly... here in my country, houses are so expensive that even with a good, slightly above average job by both partners, a house loan would be 30yrs💀 I'm not gonna pay off a loan until my retirement!!
My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…
Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth . You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .
I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.
I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late
We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.
It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.
@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.
This conversation reminds me of some reflecting I've done on raising kids. People talk about how we used to ride our bikes everywhere or would play outside and how they don't anymore. A large part of this is parents intuitively believe it's not safe. It would be easy to say parents have gotten softer but I would suggest we know on some level, there used to be an unspoken web of understanding and supervision. Parents would reign in kids they didn't even know because they interacted with theirs. And bad actors knew they couldn't just go out and snag a child. This is a sort of slippery slope change. with fewer people having skin in the game there is less support for child rearing and the village fails to raise the child. I wanted my kids to play outside but there was no one to play with.
It’s true, there’s so few kids that you see outside in many neighborhoods. My neighborhood is one of the few that I see kids outdoors playing, it makes me happy to see them enjoying themselves and having the kind of childhood that I had as a kid…rather than being inside rotting away physically and mentally
Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here: 1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values. 3. People are online rather than irl with each other. 4. Fertility in men is dropping fast. 5. Family trauma/disassociation 6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation 7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings. 8. Very insufficient sex ed 9. College Ed valued over starting a family 10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game
I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers
Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.
For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.
It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast. Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.
Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.
I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.
The cost of living is so insane there were times I was losing weight so bad because I was broke. I can’t imagine what I would’ve done with kids. I was young and so worn out from life and I was just taking care of myself. It’s crazy to see friends I had with kids making it. Often said, what am I doing wrong.
At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the UA-camrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.
As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.
Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.
I'm 43 and my partner is 33. We had our first child on December 22. I purposely waited as I wanted to be financially stable and able to be at home more once I had children. Now we've had one I wish I had had a child much earlier. Logically, waiting made sense and I am more stable than in my late 20s or early 30s but I now feel like I've missed out by holding off for so long and perhaps what's worst is that I'll be 53 when my daughter is 10, 63 when she is 20 and so on. I already feel myself slowing down and will only slow down more over the years... In simple terms, if I had had my Daughter 10 years earlier she will have gotten to be a part of my life and me hers for 10 more years than she will now. It's an opportunity cost I didn't consider and didn't appreciate. From an evolutionary perspective, we are biologically designed to have children earlier in our lives than I have. It's not just to do with things like menopause but also our hormones, brain chemistry and a million other things. This is also a social, and cultural issue. Less women have children and those that are, do so later than in the past. Talking about the reasons for that and whether it's a good or bad thing is a minefield but from a Male perspective, the fewer fathers we have the worse off the whole world is. Nothing will teach a young man about responsibility quicker or more effectively than having a child. It provides purpose and meaning to your life something which many men don't seem to have in today's society, leading to higher rates of depression in men, higher suicide rates and many other issues.
In the past, men were not regarded as full adults until they father a child. Look at the sort of people running the world today. Most of them are childless. Having kids often changes people's mindset for the better.
@@taras3702 I have to agree. I was 30 when we had my son. Looking back on my mentality, I was technically an adult, but I was not a man until a few years after my son was born.
@@mrfarenheit9159 me and my "Partner" are not married so the term "Wife" doesn't apply and "Girl Friend" also doesn't really fit the bill, having been with my other half for 6 years and having a child together it doesn't really convay the depth of our relationship. I'm completely open to some other term if you can think of one that fits the bill better?
I accidentally got pregnant at 20 and had my daughter at 21. The biological dad didn’t stick around but I married a 24 year old man who was ready to have a family. We had a son together, he worked and I stayed at home with the kids. Now our kids are in their late teens. I’m 40 and just about to graduate with my bachelors degree. We’re very happy and are glad we made the decisions we made. I can’t tell you how many people used to tell me I did things all wrong and should’ve gone to school first and got a job. I’m glad I did things in the order I did, even if I didn’t plan it that way.
One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.
I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad
The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.
Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.
@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?
I adopted my first at 32, had biological twins at 36, and one more at 44. Praise God! I definitely tell my children to have theirs early! It was an uphill battle for me.
I had - due to health reasons - my first child at 42 and twins with 45. I wouldn't have done so by choice, but I see many advantages as well. I know much more and I need less in this period of my life. I would have been a worse mother earlier.
I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️
I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.
@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app. I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉
I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone. If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.
That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.
@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money. I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.
@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib. The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.
I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!
my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism.... On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars. However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing
So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth. It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.
@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing! Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.
sometimes Not having kids can be a great act of love for unborn children. It’s not enough telling people how having children is usually part of our dreams, or how we might change of mind later in life etc., if you get reality check you realize that having children without money, education, family support etc., it’s the prefect recipe for unhappy children and frustrated adults. At then end, those kids would be our kids, and who wants to see their kids to suffer in this horrible world? As conscious human beings I think many young people have came to the realizations that if you are going to contribute to bring more human to be eaten by the system, you rather don’t have them.
This is a significant issue that governments just refuse to acknowledge and deal with. My late wife and I knew from wider reading that having children young is so sensible, when you are older after child-rearing, you are young enough to travel and enjoy life. We married at 20 and 21, had three children,before we were 30, but wanted five (health stopped this plan) and were then grandparents in our early 50’s. Sadly she died at 51, but now I have nine beautiful grandchildren, the eldest is 15 and I am not yet 65. God is good and we are designed to reproduce young. Modern culture deceives and deludes and is slowly killing itself. This chap describes the saddest people; those who delayed family too long due to the culture of the day.
@@zumurudlilit If the breakeven TFR is 2.1 then the breakeven grandchildren rate is 4.41. Reversing the math, having 1 to 2 grandchildren is equivalent to a TFR of 1 to 1.4, i.e. the levels which are doing it for Japan, S. Korea, Italy etc.
My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.
You’re almost a boomer you don’t understand the issues you’re children will face in this life and especially their children if they are even going to have them.
I am a 38 year old American male with four children. My wife wanted five. We are planning on eventually taking care of her mother who is just turning 60. We will never have a empty home. You sacrifice for those you love.
Tragic. My sons are 20 and 24 and i am looking forward to empty house. Btw my ex-husband's grandma lived alone till her death at 97 and firmly refused to live with her daughter or son. It was her space and she intended on keeping it this way. Even when she broke her leg and died soon - she didn't allowed her daughter to stay overnight. She was allowed to come in in the morning, prepare breakfast, then a nurse in midday and her son in the evening.
As someone who never had a family or really any exposure to even a functional relationship throughout my childhood, I think this really set me up for failure. I wanted to be an engineer since before I even knew such a thing existed. The only thing I wanted more than that was to have a family one that. These were the two dreams I had in life. So, in spite of my extremely disadvantaged childhood, I found my way into college and put in the work. I made the Dean's List most semesters, tutored math up through multivariable calculus, had a technical paper published, tested for Mensa out of curiosity and qualified, and graduated with honors along with receiving a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. I thought I had a job lined up at Honda after graduation, but it fell through, and I went on to apply for hundreds of engineering jobs with no success. Eventually, I had no choice but to accept reality. Once I realized that neither of my goals would ever be accomplished in the slightest, I no longer had any motivation to succeed or do anything at all really. My life continues, but entirely without hope, so I'm really just existing until the end.
I got an engineering degree at age 30 thinking it would always be a guarantee of a good job. Found out it doesn’t work that way. After twelve years I left the field. Self employed now for 24 years. Also, unless you are highly skilled, once you get out you are not likely to get back in. I told my wife twenty years ago I’m just waiting to die. But I paid off the house and live debt free since 2012. It’s better now.
Recommend you exercise to breathlessness regularly - but not daily. It will sharpen your mind. You are not a cook. Become one. Straightforward quality with flavour. It will satisfy you deeply. Get Christopher Hitchens, Gordon Murray, and Nial Ferguson on talking books. Pay attention. Buy straight, presentable new clothes. Practise smiling with your eyes playing their part. Read the news. Be up with the play. Think about the ancient wonder of life.
Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol
This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤
it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup
The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.
According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.
@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.
@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.
@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.
@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.
I'm 60. Never wanted kids. Never had them. It has been the single best decision of my life. Financial advantage. Freedom to follow a career and life choices that have taken me around the world. If you want kids, have them if it's what you want and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. Many of my friends have chosen not to have children for the same reasons. Modern life offers different choices to those previous generations had which means kids are a huge limitation. Lamenting dropping birthrates is pointless. We need to adapt to a future with less people. No bad thing in my mind for both the planet and every other species who also inhabit the world.
There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.
Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.
@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system. So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube. They actually keep said milk in the freezer. Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.
I feel like I’ve completely lucked into having had a wife and three kids. We had our first child at 25/23 through sheer recklessness. Just a feeling of ‘It’d be cool to have a baby’ and , man, did we suffer for that economically! There’s then a 10 year gap as we recovered financially and then another 6 from there. But at 46, I feel like one of the luckiest guys I know. There’s never going to be a ‘right’ time - just do it!!
@@shanepatrick641 You don’t need lots of money to get a girlfriend - that’s a myth promulgated by ‘influencers’ trying to con you. Shave, keep your hair tidy, wear clean, ironed clothes that fit you properly, be friendly and polite. Learn how to pay a compliment without coming across as creepy - don’t say “you’re a total babe”, say “nice earrings”. When you get a GF, just be nice and not too heavy. Don’t be possessive or jealous. Make an effort to get on well with her family and friends. And when you’re a year in, take it up a notch - ask her to live with you, for example. That’s all probably bullshit - but it’s the best I’ve got! Good luck, Shane!!
@@martynmcclure7121 Thank you Martyn! Ha ha 😄 I appreciate the advice 😊 My longest relationship was six months, but we lived too far apart. Broke my heart, best relationship I ever had, I'll struggle for a while but I'll take your advice on board. (Screenshotted your comment if you don't mind)
This was a great talk BUT you guys really dropped the ball in my opinion by not pointing out how social media has destroyed in-person interactions and how social media has diminished the social skills humans rely on to reproduce.
I don't think it's social media per se, but the decimation of third spaces like churches and bars and movie theaters. Now you might ask why those places where ppl hang out and meet new ppl. Today ppl meet online but as great as those places are, they are isolating. A girlfriend won't drop into your couch.
@@morganseppy5180 I can't agree more. I live in Australia and our average birthrate is 1.63 I think. I used to live in a regional city. Everything was so regulated. Activities that welcomed children were unwelcoming to adults. Whilst adult activities didn't allow children. Since moving, things have gone back to what it used to be. Pubs are back to providing toys and playgrounds so both parents and children are welcome. And we have community activities for things like New Year Eve. Face painting and petting zoos for little ones, carnival rides for older kids, and live music and beer and cider for parents and older teens. Something as simple as helping an eighty year old with her grocery bags, might mean an introduction to her twenty year old granddaughter. Who knows? The big thing I've found is that people are still having 2-6 kids. Completely different to cities.
I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.
Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.
Did you just accidentally decide to have sex? I hate when that happens! There wasn’t ANY amount of premeditated intention? Just 100% caught off guard? Hmm
@@Robert.Zimmermann Every effort was made in the way of contraception actually. Both the pill and condoms. My partner was advised it was unlikely she was ever to conceive naturally. So ye, I'd say accidentally.
Most women that i know have regretted having kids so young specially hab they got divorced. They had no resources, their pension could not pay the bills ans they basically invested in poverty by hving children. For women this is simply not qorth it and politicians couldn't care less about what women need.
Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!
As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal
Talking about Germany, the doctors are so dismissive. It is like they need your money but dont want to see you in their office and the world thinks Europe and America have the best medical care.Example, my son had intestinal bleeding and the doctor just wrote for a cream and no further investigations. never took history,no general examination of the child. when we asked questions, they acted as if we were questioning their intelligence and looked agitated and act busy. THAT IS TOTAL NEGLIGENCE RIGHT THERE
That's why I would rather be the old man in a cabin untill I die then think of having a younger generation take care of me. Most can't take care of themselves. Many are still living at there parents home.
A WHO report says: Rates of a6use of older people are high in institutions such as nursing homes and long-term care facilities, with _2 in 3 staff reporting that they have committed abuse in the past year._ Imagine that. You'll get medicated and handled roughly, or even abandoned.
My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.
My main reasons are: 1. The cost of childcare. 2. My husband works insane hours for the nypd (he has no say regarding his schedule and overtime) because of that my life would be one of a married single mother. If I could afford to be a stay at home mom, I might still consider it but that’s not the case. 3. How humans are treating the planet.
I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.
I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.
@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible. The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION. I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation. Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.
If you have friends who are single moms, AND you're poor, the chances are high you'll be the same. Don't do it. Kids need a solid father IN the house. It's a 2 person job.
Amazing. It is a very interesting and difficult topic. I see many "old" women having children at 40+ and suffer the lack of energy and the frustration that comes with It. My sister, for example. I even notice It myself when I play with my niece. This is something some people, men and women, do not take into account, specially if you don't have your parent's help.
I'm 36 and a mother to a beautiful daughter, it's the most fulfilling thing I will ever do. Raising children right is hard but it's the most joyful and rewarding thing you'll ever do. This sounds like a daft inspirational quote but it's true. Your horizons expand considerably when you become a parent.
I would say its because the standard of living is plummeting and has been for a while. We peaked out and plateaud for a couple of decades and then slowly at first and then increasingly things started to get worse and people see that trend and realise theres a long way to fall
I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.
@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 . That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries. Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.
@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…
Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.
I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.
Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way. Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.
40 or 45 years ago a family with just the father working could support a family, buy a house, a nice car, etc... That's a rarity now. Who has the time as well as the money.
5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.
I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.
I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.
I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.
Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant
My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!
I did a traditional 4 year apprenticeship as a heavy equipment mechanic after leaving school just before I was 17 in 1980. I finished that before I was 21. Some of the people I did apprenticeships with stayed in the trade and ended up as branch managers, workshop managers and so on. These guys have had a very good career. I also credit doing an apprenticeship to getting me through my late teenage years. I ended up drifting through my 20's and then did the equivalent of grade 12 at night school when I was 28. I graduated as an engineer, and at the top of the class, just before I was 34. I've been in engineering since then except for a 2 1/2 year period when I was made redundant at the age of 53. I was able to use my trade certificate from 1983 to get work on the tools at mine sites. When other engineers could only get work driving a Uber. For a variety of reasons both personal and professional I'm not in quite the position I would like to be but I'm definitely a better engineer for having a trade background AND having done my degree in my late 20's / early 30's than I would have been had I done it straight after school. Both my grandfather's did 5 year apprenticeships before moving into the drafting office and doing night school to obtain their engineering qualifications. My paternal grandfather was designing steam piping for nuclear power stations when he retired in 1963. My maternal grandfather was assessing patents in the UK patents office. Neither ever got an engineering degree. Obviously everyone's experience will be different but while I did very well in my engineering degree I've hardly used any of the theory that I learned. The skills that I did learn and have been the most useful are: carry out research, find and assess information, touch type, and use a variety of both office and engineering software. These skills would apply to near everyone yet many clearly don't have them. I entered university in 1992 and graduated in 1996. I got my first computer in 1994 and there was very limited internet then. Plagiarising was much more difficult. The sort of people who plagiarise shouldn't be at university, they clearly do not understand why they are there. It's easy to say "graduate and get a job" but they are wasting the opportunity to learn by copying or allowing AI to write for them.
Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).
Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.
Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc … we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊
I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.
I think in the UK renting is not secure enough to start a family. My landlords have sold the property and served me notice on a few occasions. I've basically been on the verge of homelessness at this point. I have a good job but that doesn't guarantee you anything these days. My child has had to move school 4 times because of this.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic. Peace
@Cord Fortina The male to female sex ratios in the UK is 1.05 male to every 1 female. That's in the age category of 15 to 44. Now there are approximately 27 million ppl in that age category. So that means that there are approximately 675,000 EXCESS males in the UK in that age category of 15-44. Not even SINGLE men but EXCESS men. What will its effects be? With figures like this is it any wounder that females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe. From the sad random/stranger murder of sabrina Nessa, aslingh Murphy, Sarah everhard. To drinks spiking, to ME TOO To Rise in London record teenage murders to rise in riots to political extreme movements. The EXPLOSION OF ONLY FANS. Could this be related? The standing British army is approximately 83,000 And we have approximately 675,000 EXCESS MEN. That could mean that 5% of men in this category could possibly never find a long-term monogamous relationship. 🤔
@@kamrudkd you fail to understand London's record teenage murders are mainly because of the rise of single mother household's, most criminals in fact were raised by single mothers. It has nothing to do with there being excess men. "females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe"' - true, but men are still way more likely to be victims of violent crime. Also an excess of 675,000 really isn't much really considering men are more likely to be gay and have disabilities than women are.
@mimimi queweq no your facts are wrong. Men repot being gay less than women. In the younger cohort of millennials and gen z are more women that identify as lgbtq. This means that there are fewer heterosexual women in that cohort. There are now published figures on it, one even from the UK 2021 census. Just look it up
I, like most men years ago, did not think much about fatherhood. When I had 3 son's, I knew it was the best years of my life. Still do. I read Steve Biddulf , Raising Boys'. As the book recommended, i Gave sons lots of my time. We all had a great life.. still we are very close. It was like having your childhood over again. Great fun.
36:1336:34 When I worked in retail, I had many 15-16 year olds talk to me about how much they loved babies. 17-30, not a peep, in fact, hated babies. I call it "the flip", usually last year of high school, or entering University, she becomes completely mesmerised by global options for everything.
I wonder if the "hate" is a subconscious self deluding defensive barrier? It's either that or psychopathy to actually "hate" babies out right. It's worse than to "hate" defenseless pets and animals by an order of magnitude. Babies are the most defenseless of the defenseless. Something has to be really really wrong in the individual's psychology to actually hate such beings. Those who say it as a defensive subconscious line actually are the ones who feel the pain of not having one in a very deep way and would care the most to a baby- tears running down their necks- if they find themselves locked with one, abandoned.
@@danyyboyechildren are a tremendous sacrifice to raise healthy and properly and it certainly isn’t for everyone! I thought I wanted kids - then I babysat for a while and realized this is drudgery and insane
Previous Grad student with a baby here... you can't IMAGINE the shock and awe - and FEAR of undergraduate women looking at my baby in the car seat when I would have him on campus. It was like "Oh God - Not one of those!! Don't look at it! Don't let it get me! Who brought that onto campus??"
In a healthy society womem should be raised to have children right away out of their teens and normalize it. It when they want to the most. If it's normalized there is no guilt wracking about having kids early. Then by time they are 40 their kids are adults THEN women can start careers. It's the right way to do it. Our society inverts everything and makes everything destructive and unhealthy on purpose.
One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.
He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'. One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).
@@forzanerazzurri2339 The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem. I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing. As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.
@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.
@@rodjayoma7085 Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).
This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.
That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)
While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US. At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.
It’s almost like not supporting mothers and families and telling young women it was more important for them to work than have children was a bad idea??? Who would’ve thought!
When I try to bring this topic up to others, that rebuttal of "so you're saying women need to be less educated and more domestic?" makes it incredibly difficult to discuss the ramifications of these societal trends. Then I try to point them to conversations like these, but they see the over 1 hour length and go back to watching TikTok. Regardless, it's good to know that this is being talked about at some level. I'm still quite optimistic for the future of this roller coaster ride.
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.
Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do. Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids
But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.
When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.
Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.
@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living
Yep, when young you have still tolerance and haven't yet defined who you are. When you too old you're already set in your way of living and don't have enough patience to tolerate someone else
Two questions: Why is it primarily MEN that are so concerned about the birth rate dropping and not women? And , why don’t any these MEN acknowledge and discuss the fact that the experiences of parenthood and marriage is VERY DIFFERENT for men and women, with women getting the short end of the stick?? Why don’t they highlight how imbalanced having and raising kids is for most women??
A Japanese widower was being interviewed about the living conditions in their society said that loneliness and isolation were bad because in their society they are not allowed to socialize or speak to those not on the same level of the hierarchy they have achieved. So this man will die alone and someone will eventually find his body due to the stink. How sad is this?
The dissolution of extended family members living and working together has made life lonelier and more difficult. Independence and nuclear families has a cost. @@jmanakajosh9354
34:30 So true. Women are shamed in society for having children in their late teens/early 20s, when that's suppose to be the most fertile time period for them. Also, it's not viable to have children at that age in today's societal structure, where younger ppl are forced to pursue college/uni degrees and get into debt, and not be able to support kids or even think about having them.
Mothers spend their time in the service of others for the greater good. What if we offered them something similar to the GI Bill? Young women looking to start a family would benefit men as well.
@@tomasrocha6139 Not true. Female fertility decreases after age 19. Peak is between 17 and 19. However, how many 17 to 19 year-old are capable of raising childen well in society as it is today? We have the same biology as we did millenia ago but civilization is not the same. Child rearing should not be left to children and that is what most 17-19 year-olds are.
All the concern about population decline is becos corps and govts are losing avenues to make money becos of reduced work horses and consumers. They tried fixing it though immigration put people are turning against this ! If people had decent working conditions and pay, everybody would love to raise children, but that would go against the govt and corporate Agenda!
The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids. There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65. Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools. More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children. There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)). So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES. Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............ If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims? Is ALL this muslim ppl fault. What do you think?
I never had planned or desired to have kids when I was young. After getting married I got my wife pregnant. That boy is now 14 years old and I do not regret it at all. We had another child as well because we wanted our older child to have someone in this life for after we pass. I do not regret that decision ever. I am glad to be able to have passed my knowledge on to the next generation.
I turned 62 this year. Never had children. Never had a moment's regret. Have kids all you want, save society, whatever you're into. But some of us are damn happy childfree. Don't let anyone push you in either direction. It's the most personal and life-changing decision of your life. It needs to be YOUR decision, 100%.
Here in the year of our lord 2023, having children is nothing more than an expensive headache. Be glad you skipped that garbage and live life to its fullest extent.
Similar age never had kids. Great! Looking at my friends just because you have kids doesn't mean they stay around you. Siblings clash, family disputes happen, my husband an only child died before his parents. Even having kids doesn't mean they will always be there.
38, planned on having two kids, and throughout my 20’s did not have the financial ability or right partner (dating largely impacted by lack of money). Was focused on college and building a career, was poor and miserable. Now doing quite well and can’t get a date much less a partner.
Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here. One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted. Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose. We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse. In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right. There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice. It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕
15 to 20 years ago, leftist would spin the conversation of demographic decline in the fall of working age population into a race guard game where they would tell minorities that you were talking about the fact that they would be more minorities in the future than white people and that’s what you are afraid of. They literally wasted 20 years, which is to say a whole generation of workers with their lies and propaganda to shut people up their whole. The world is too populated argument was there to but their arguments for birth control and abortion the whole time they knew this was bullshit from the very beginning. Don’t describe your good motives to other people , they were liars from the beginning and they just wanted to deceive you in order to get what they wanted which was a low population planet which they saw is better for the environment. Most of them were middle class and well off anyway, and it will hurt them a hell of a lot less than it’s going to hurt the poor .
A big part is the people who had that first child but where Not planning for it to happen and once it did, they got married and just kept on making a family. Today, it is more possible than ever to avoid that first "Mistake".
In a world where people live like the second and not like the first we won't exist. Mistakes are to be learnt from to not repeat. Having a child is rarely a mistake. The mistake is having sex thinking a child couldn't be the end result. People don't like to be honest with themselves and lie unfortunately. It's sad. Sometimes you have to hold a mirror to the ape in the zoo just to see what happens. They generally toss excrement to make it go away.
Not to mention that you have a legacy and family to care for you in your old age. My father is 79. Today is his bday. The main thing that matters to him, makes him fulfilled and gives him purpose.... is being with loved ones. I love my father dearly. I'm so grateful for him. I'm almost 39 now... i have no children. My wife is 42 and seems to be infertile, or it's me. I'm sensing more and more... that everything else is secondary to our dear friends and family. As I'm with my dad, I wonder who's going to be there for me when I'm his age? It definitely seems easier to not have kids. Especially when you're young... but don't wait too long. When we are on our death bed... I'm 100% that the only thing we will hold dear, is the family we shared this life with. Unfortunately, the death cult has brainwashed us so badly, that I don't see this ending well for many. If you're a young woman.... don't listen to the poisoned, message. Don't wait too long to have kids. I know MANY older women who are not parents. Its often too late for them. Take a wild guess about thier biggest regret! Young men... better and master yourself. Find a good woman and settle down. First you should understand women and yourself. Check out 'No more Mr Nice guy'.... it's a great, unbiased manual in gender dynamics. This will help you avoid disaster in our biased system against fathers.
I was 23 when I had my eldest and the shame that came smashing down on me from most women in our extended friend circle was unbelievable. The one that still rings in my ears was "But you're still a baby! You're just a baby, how can you be considering having a child!!??" From my husband's boss' girlfriend. Lucky for me. I have always had my own mind and always know I wanted a lot of kids. My husband and I now have 5 beautiful children and it was of course the right decision, but that shocked face and the just point blank infantilization of me, a 23 year old WOMAN was just so weird. I can't imagine most other young women holding up under a deluge like that and deciding to start a family anyway. In fact, out of my 22 cousins and every friend I grew up with only one cousin, which is a kindergarten teacher, and one friend, a conservative Vietnamese immigrant, have children. That's it. And all of us are in our late 20s to early 40s now.
This is so much B.S. We've become selfish, narcecists. My wife and I are both 80 years old now, but we were young once. We got married at 19 while we were still in the military. Our dream was simole, to stay together forever, start a family and have a bunch of beautiful, healthy, childern. We did't dream of millions of dollars or Corvettes. I guess it's ok to do so, but for most of us, our best parenting years are early on and they don't last long . We had six, two boys and 4 girls, all educated and doing well. We somehow managed it. Credit to my wife, wisest person I know. Now we're hoppeing to make a dignified exit when our time arrives, without becoming a burden to them or anyone else.
This is exactly right. I'm 38 and about to have our 3rd child. I know people making 200k a year that say it's too expensive, but can spend 500$ a night drinking. People have become incredibly selfish and society endlessly caters to it. The old Mark Twain adage is the lead here about people being convinced they've been lied to. It's truly heartbreaking. Even worse is the ones that are so miserable and selfish they sabotage relationships of others or chase them into getting abortions.
Agree, I find it hard to sympathize to these hypergamic women, because I've been there, going on dates with ladies and they drop you like a rock when you don't drive a nice enough car, have a nice enough house, when you're not a CEO or movie star. You consider yourself too important to be bothered with anyone, so we'll leave you and your 7 cats to ponder how someday Mr Right will come along.
I’m a veteran myself and I’m expecting my first any day now. My wife and I both want what you seem to have. I’m the youngest of 7 and she’s the 5th of 6 so a large family is not foreign to us. God Bless thanks for your service!
I wish I could have started having kids earlier! I got married at 25 (I'm the female). We started trying for a baby when I was 26. Didn't conceive for 11 months (I blame the IUD). Then of course, pregnancy lasts nearly a year, so when I gave birth I was 28. We've kept the kids pretty close together and have 3 now. I'm turning 33 this year, but we're hoping for another before getting off "baby island" lol
"didn't conceive for 11 months"... In the grand scheme of things, you're really going to complain about this "delay"? Many people struggle for YEARS to conceive... Count yourself lucky.
Chris and Stephen have discussed some excellent points about the dysfunction we find ourselves in with regard to finding a partner, having children, and making sure that women continue to have opportunities other than being a wife/mother. It may seem blunt, but it is time for boys/men to step it up. Defining a new or perhaps more complex role for the male gender in society might help. Different views of who women and men can be, needs an overhaul. We are better as partners in all ways. Let's be mindful of change.
I find it odd that the comments all point to delayed child bearing because of financial insecurity but a living wage that supports a stay at home mother is never really discussed.
As long as women are working it will not be the norm for a man to make enough by himself to support a family. There is a reason these trends started in the 70s and it rhymes with Weminism
40 year old male from the US here. I figure I'll probably be alone for the rest of my life. Not really much can be done about it. I'll never be a good enough partner. The grass is always greener, and whatnot.
And everyone will blame you. People in the new ideological mainstream will loathe you for your “privilege” and for the “violence” of your “entitlement.” The based minority will tell you that you could have singlehandedly created a different world if you had just gone to the gym more often. You’re part of a giant (giant!) cohort of “useless men” (to borrow a phrase from the Great Depression) whom the rest of society will be very eager to wash its hands of.
I’m 39 and have been with my husband for twelve years. We both have good jobs but have chosen not to have children. The main reason I would attribute it to is that we couldn’t buy our first home until we were in our mid thirties, and although I thought I would have a family I didn’t envisage having one in a rented apartment. Now, we’re happy just as we are and are planning financially for the probability that we will never receive a state pension or social care.
Have a little faith act on it you wimp have 2 kids back to back little scarred sky is falling not women enough to have kids , I had 2 nothing to it best decision ever EVER
Given that we are facing the situation that we have in front of us and there is a strong societal pressure, pushing people toward childlessness I find it incredible that you are so hesitant to strongly advocate for people to have children if they are able. It is a moral imperativegiven the perilous future we are facing.
I can remember having this conversation with a relative 25 years ago,we did the maths then, and realised what was going to happen,and we both said then,the best time in history .we had lived through already ,and things were going to get worse not better.
Until recently, I had never heard the term "maths." It's always been a singular term. "Math class," "do the math," et cetera. Is using the plural a British/Commonwealth thing?
@@ajays9936 Stop making sense! Even in my college classes, no one ever said "Do the maths." Math was treated as a singular the entire time. Heck, even typing the word, "maths" comes up with a red squigly line under it on UA-cam.
Society has evolved into a requirement that in order to build a home together and pay bills most people on lower incomes (who historically had the most children) need to both work..Just to survive. Putting off having children through necessity not choice. One wage used to be enough..now it's two wages. Falling birthrate is a direct casualty of this brave new world. It's not going to change because everything is monetised for profit maximisation and incomes are too low for many to contemplate starting a family.
1:19:42 "There is gonna be fewer and fewer people companies to hire" - if that would be the case then the real wages should be going higher. And the throuth is that wage growth is lower than inflation =real wage growth is negative. This is one of the example when the economy is shouting at you that there is abundance of workers / people in the world. I could continue with the housing market, but I think you get my point.
At 46:50 they're making the same mistake too. My great grandparents had a dosen children, then their kids COLLECTIVELY had less than a dozen. My great grandparents had a farm, my grandparents had gas stations. Loosing agriculture changes the economics of having children.
@@susanarojo3906 That doesn't mean the the quality of life is going down. I see that as like an only child who inherit the family tree's wealth... wealth / GDP could stagnate while GDP per capita could go up.
My paternal grandparents had 7 children. My maternal grandparents also produced 7 children. My parents had 5 children. I had 2, my oldest brother had 0, my next brother had 3, my sister had 2 and my youngest had 0. My older daughter has no children and my younger has 2. I think we're typical.
When you constantly talk about the dangers of over population; it’s hard to suddenly switch to the dangerous of under population and have people take it seriously.
Sometime in the early 80s my wife and I read an economics/relationship article. It’s basic message was that most couples wanted three things. 1-financial security 2-a nice home 3-children The kicker was that the article claimed that the majority of American couples could only manage to afford two of the three.
My mother was so excited to become a grandmother. It was something she always had imagined she would one day be. My brother never had children because he was never able to find a girlfriend. I got a later start at it but have successfully had 3 kids. My mom is a wonderful grandmother, and my kids have really given her a new and exciting adventure in her life... she has several friends around her age. All had children of their own (2 or more), but she is the only one with grandkids. Her friends all grieved for the grandchildren they will never have. They all expected to become grandparents, but each one had to come to terms with the reality that would not be part of their experience and all experienced depression around it. I feel so deeply for not only their children who wanted families but never made it work, and for their parents who will never get to have a sleepover baking cookies with their grandchildren.
If the worse life you can think of is "not having the same car your friends on instagram do," and that's why you think people are antinatalists, then you're extremely sheltered, and must have been born into a very lucky life with no major long term problems. When it comes to finances alone, people are struggling just to survive, they're not worried about fancy cars.
Thank you so much Chris for this amazing podcast. You bring up a sensitive topic that is rarely addressed and bring the facts to the table:) Great job!!!
I know this is an old video, and I NEVER comment on anything but I gotta say something here. Maybe someone like me will se this comment and feel better or some "expert" who can do something about it will realize whats going on. I am very disappointed about how finances as the problem are glazed right over. Your expert is telling me that my membership to the tennis club took priority over my want to have kids. I spent my younger years working 10-12 hour days in blue collar jobs and could barely afford to support myself. I am talking about something as simple as a flat tire could leave me homeless. No money to fix flat tire>no car miss work >miss work lose job>lose job cant pay rent, ect. It took 20 years until I was stable enough to even think about being able to support a child. Believe me, I lived poor, cheap cars, cheap rent cheap food cheap clothes. This expert is saying I made bad choices on how I spent my money. I DIDN'T HAVE CHOICES. I also didn't hear anything about the compounding effects of all the reasons you bring up. So there I was, a blue collar worker making pretty good money finally at 35+ years old. that's when the collage bias kicked in ect. The only women that were available were, dare I say; badly damaged single mothers, drug addicts, forever party girls and a whole host of women that would have most likely ended up in disaster having a child with. I am 6'4 and no superstar but I'm certainly not ugly. I was not too picky about a mate but by that age, it seemed that all the "good" ones were taken and all that was left was a group of women who were looking for wealthy move stars or so flawed to the point that having a stable relationship with them was impossible not to mention having kids. I am now 50+ and I have a wonderful woman who is too old to have children. MY HEART BREAKS, when I see a picture of a little boy with a baseball bat resting on his shoulder on my bosses desk or in other places. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE PLIGHT OF YOUNG MEN. YOUNG MEN MATTER. And if I am not mistaken they are 50% of what it takes to make children. You start this talk by exploring women, women this and women that. And once you get to the fact of men being a provider, which is the bottom line what women are looking for, you guys literally just skip right over it like its not even a real issue. Tennis club member. YOU INSULT ME AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF EXPLOITED WORKERS! This message will most likely be like a piss in the ocean, making no difference. Nobody cares about young men anymore. A village that doesn't give its young men a place in it will burn it down just to feel its warmth. I am too old to be burning shit down. But now sit and talk with you experts and try to figure out why this whole society is going to shit. No offense, I love you bro. Keep up the fight.
💔 as a cohort female, I HEAR YOU loud and clear. And I lived this pain also as a woman. I have no children because of financial restrictions. When I listen to elites talk about the declining birth rates, I become irate. It's like they are only worried about cheap domestic labor and future consumers 😢 They have little understanding of the life circumstances we had been GIVEN!! May God bless us both ❤💙
I spent decades at min wage in NC, it's pitiful. What I earned for 40yrs at work is a joke beyond humor. It was 2.85/hr when I began. It's just now at $7.25. Can anyone live on that....
I hear you. But it is possible. We made massive financial sacrifices are raising 4 young men. I understand the plight of younger men and I advocate for them. I hope my boys will also find a good wife's and have children for a hopeful future. The problem is still undoing the lies told to young women about their fertility.
Good comment, OP. It is amusing that a woman has replied here a few days ago saying that it is possible with sacrifices. She must have glossed over the part where the cost of a flat tyre was between you and the risk of total destitution. I hope you are on firmer ground now. Best of luck.
It's good to see more people talking about things like low birth rates and the challenges that come with them, but it really bothers me how so many seem to dismiss the importance of anti-aging science. Honestly, it’s frustrating because I feel like it’s such a crucial area that could massively help civilization, yet it barely gets the credence it deserves.
Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than UA-cam by Subscribing on Spotify - spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:17 Stephen’s Motivations for Studying Population Collapse
05:04 Whatever Happened to the Population ‘Bomb?’
11:06 The Deeply Concerning Birth Rate of Western Nations
19:18 Do Women Want to Have Children?
36:07 Do Men Want to Have Children?
44:08 Are Finances Getting in the Way?
56:06 Is it our Moral Imperative to Have Children?
1:02:02 Why Industrialisation Correlates with Declining Birth Rates
1:09:22 Impact of Declining Birth Rates on the Economy
1:17:00 How Nations Can Improve Birth Rates
1:23:19 Where to Find Stephen
Chris! you need to make babies!
@@michaelmonaghan6599 hahaha
Women also make smarter decisions later age when choosing a partner that knows how to raise a family. Specialy when their educated, with a financial stability. We also now live longer and have more time.
Other variables like dating apps, social media, international dating are kind of solving some of the problem. 80% modern day people found their partner online.
@@michaelmonaghan6599 our Chris needs to settle down and then make babies. I believe that is the best way forward if you have listened to his previous podcasts 😁
There is forced birth in AMERICA. How are the numbers looking on that? It wasn't a coincidence SUPREME COURT, passed a ban on abortion. The US is already working for more Boots on the ground. Unfortunately they will not be with willing or able women or men, who can create lots of single mothers.
I have a friend that I’ve known since middle school. He had his kid at 22. At the time, we all thought he was crazy. We were the same age, and while we were busy partying, he was changing diapers. I certainly thought he was missing out. But fast forward. At 41, his kid is in college. He is healthy and full of energy. I told my friend, “You’re done.” What I meant was that the daily and weekly routines of school drop off, after school activities, were all behind him. That is the freedom that society never taught us, that if you could have kids sooner, you get more years with them, that more of that time is in your youth and better health. Whatever “freedom” you have in your early 20s as a single person pales in comparison to the kind of “freedom” you have when you’re in your mid-40s, when your kids are grown and you still have good health.
Agree. I'm going to be 40 when my first child is 20 💞.
@@kc6810 According to this data, it is ending and quite soon.
@@kc6810 it all depends on your way of thinking. If you believe children are a burden then obviously you would be "saddled" with taking care of your kids and grandkids. If you view children as creations you're proud of, something to mold and raise with your values and make them good people, good brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters, then it's a gift to be able to spend time with your grandchildren doing stuff they like and teaching them things as well as learning from them. I'm not praising or condemning either lifestyle, I'm just trying to explain to you that there might be another side to the equation that could seem almost foolish in your eyes and a few others.
Just knowing someone you love is present really gives a morral boost even in the lowest point of your life.
Sad that a lot of people do not consider this when they decide to not have a family because they feel a spouse and children are burdonsome (especially talking to the ladies here). Okay, some family members can be unsupportive, but if you are good you will at least have someone.
So many old people just kill themselves or are abused because they have no one else to fight for or stand up for them. This is something people only realize when it is too late.
Single old people will be abused by the system, sadly 😥. No matter how much money you saved up for retirement.
You can maintain good health deep into life if you put in the effort.
When I was very young, I remember many very good intentioned people (in my family and community) telling me, ‘Don’t get a girl pregnant or it’ll ruin your future’. I was petrified to get a girl pregnant’. Then by the time I was in a position to have a decent job (after all my schooling was done) and my wife and I tried to have a baby it wasn’t working out. We then were told by medical professionals that a woman’s eggs are “old” by about 34 Y.O. ! We spent many years secretly depressed, desperate and looking for help. Every time someone asked me “if” or “why” I didn’t have a child it would almost put me in panic. It was awful. Our friends kids were growing up…we were stuck…..it sucked, A LOT. This went on for about 14 years. Finally, we found the help we needed, payed a lot of money and got very lucky. But there was no way we were going to be able to have another child due to my wife’s issues. We wanted 2 or 3 kids. But, I feel I am the luckiest guy to have my child. I wished we started a lot younger.
Sorry it’s a long story despite leaving out 95% of the story
Most people try to ignore stories like yours. My wife and I have been so lucky with our 5 kids. We're young enough to keep up with them, have a good time. They're thriving, my wife gets to be a stay at home mom which she loves. Im happy you guys got your child though!
Hate to say, your story is pretty common. Most of my peers are saying the same thing. Waited for the money to be enough... but then it was too late
I first became a mother at 20, postponed education and career to my 30 when I really knew what I wanted to do and my kids were in school. I’ve never regretted it.
That's the ideal way to do it. And as a result of motherhood, you were probably far more mature by the time you reached 30 than a single, childless person would be at that age and, as such, better equiped to pursue your education and career with discipline and the drive of having something bigger than yourself to work for.
May be the next step should be studying families who have had children earlier and then went on to school and a career.
Not trying to attack you, just genuinely wondering, how did you afford to do that? Did your husband cover all of the expenses?
I smell no husband aka spoken like a “single mum”
@@kc6810 my mum retrained as a teacher when I was in primary school. I remember her taking us with her to the University library on weekends, we'd be there all day. This was early 2000s though, so much cheaper back then
When you can't afford a home and when 2 parents have to work at least 40 hours a week (often more) and when health care is so expensive why is it a mystery that responsible people think it's not responsible to have children.
exactly... here in my country, houses are so expensive that even with a good, slightly above average job by both partners, a house loan would be 30yrs💀 I'm not gonna pay off a loan until my retirement!!
@@NoctLightCloud, I think we are all missing the impact AI will have on the Job market. We need to cut population.
@jpvoodoo5522 how is AI going to take care of a Senior Citizen? How is AI going to take care of you when you are a Senior?
@@jpvoodoo5522That has been said every time a new technology comes along.
Richest generation- can't afford kids. Its not money.
My wife had all three of her kids by the time she was 28. My daughter has three children by the time she is 29. You need lots of energy with little kids. Don’t wait for the right time. There is no right time. Life is happening now. Being a fit grandpa in his 50s is a true joy…
Did your wife and daughter go to college? Because that's the biggest delaying factor imo
"her" kids? They're not yours?
@Opium Copium very interesting. Its also where they get marinated in malthusianism. Our educational institutions are corrupted and anti-human.
Going to college for a degree that’s pointless while continuing to live within a single parent home and dating countless others seems to be todays youth .
You cant live at home and stay under your parent’s insurance until 25+ and expect life to be normal .
I had my youngest child at 25. As I see it you have the whole of your life to study, you only have about ten years to have healthy babies. I raised my daughters to understand this. And I agree, it's great to be a young grandparent.
I'll be 35 this year, I'm childless, and going through what I assume will be a break up with a man I was hoping to make babies with. This podcast hit really close to home. Here's hoping I get another opportunity before it's too late
Lower your material standards, and look for compatible values. Good luck
Why do you want kids?
@@Brochacho619 Your mom
Why did the relationship not work out?
You need to get busy.
We talked about this in the 90's. I remember a teacher telling me that companies want to hire new grads not older people. I was laid off from ATCO Electric after 15 years of service. I tried to get my job back when rehiring started and was just past from one person to another until I stopped. All the new hires are in their 20's and new grads. Our society has made getting a good job and school a priority in our younger child bearing years. I think we found a flaw.
Try contracting/consulting
It should be 1) basic education, 2) family and if you can fit in some more education and work while the kids grow for the first ~7 years, 3) career. This idea that you spend your 20's grinding in college and starting the foundations of your career or you'll forever be a career reject is insane.
@@wombatillo It is the reality. I did a degree after I had children. Nobody wants to employ a 40 year old beginner. Employers want experience as well as training.
Try dealing with cocaine, there’s no age limit there
@@arcabuz I would rather be dead than be a drug dealer or a drug user.
This conversation reminds me of some reflecting I've done on raising kids. People talk about how we used to ride our bikes everywhere or would play outside and how they don't anymore. A large part of this is parents intuitively believe it's not safe. It would be easy to say parents have gotten softer but I would suggest we know on some level, there used to be an unspoken web of understanding and supervision. Parents would reign in kids they didn't even know because they interacted with theirs. And bad actors knew they couldn't just go out and snag a child. This is a sort of slippery slope change. with fewer people having skin in the game there is less support for child rearing and the village fails to raise the child.
I wanted my kids to play outside but there was no one to play with.
It’s true, there’s so few kids that you see outside in many neighborhoods. My neighborhood is one of the few that I see kids outdoors playing, it makes me happy to see them enjoying themselves and having the kind of childhood that I had as a kid…rather than being inside rotting away physically and mentally
In China that can't be the reason because it's safe there. So issue may just be people not going outside and being social in general, not about safety
Reasons I can think of which haven't been mentioned here:
1. Men are afraid because of the legal problems associated with being fathers. 2. People want to control their lives instead of having a belief system which involves selflessness and family values.
3. People are online rather than irl with each other.
4. Fertility in men is dropping fast.
5. Family trauma/disassociation
6. Uncertainty about the future/checking out/disassociation
7. Lack of "grown ups" among 20 somethings.
8. Very insufficient sex ed
9. College Ed valued over starting a family
10. Lack of traditional practices/events in communities, like dances, which set people up to want to engage and to be able to interact in a healthy mating game
I used to watch old shows with my mom and they were based in the 60 and back. Thry used to have "socials" and dances where people dressed their best and got together in a wholesome way and now we have nothing but clubs and bars. Now I might have gone to a social with my introverted self but you'll never see me in a bar or club.....and never on a dating app which means I don't meet anyone...except co-workers
Most prominent is rotten values. It used to be number kids that counted as status. Nowadays it is posts social media featuring exotic counties and looking rich.
For the first reason, I suggest people have marriage contracts overpowering no fault divorce, and placing the relationship out of family court and into contract law.
@@Opal5674 Even in the 80s when I was young these were common.
@@coreywilder1564 If our ancestors thought like that, we wouldn't be here.
It’s been a fair amount of time since I’ve spent so much time shouting “exactly” & “I’ve been saying this for years” at an interview/discussion/podcast.
Thank you & brilliant job! Nice one.
Something to contemplate: The next couple generations of kids who it will fall on to support the aging population might feel highly resentful of the responsibility. They'll likely be supportive of their parents and grandparents, but that is it. But because the elderly will make up the majority voting bloc they will likely vote for politicians and policies that heavily favor them at the expense of the new generations. I can see a huge rift in society because of this.
I agree. All of these childless people are going to demand that other people's kids take care of them, in the form of oppressive taxation. The people complaining that it's too expensive to have kids now, haven't seen anything yet.
I have heard this is reason #1 that the Japanese youth don't bother to be part of politics.
The rift is already happening
Great point
This is a reall accurate observation. We've seen this exact process happen in Japan in the last 20 years.
The cost of living is so insane there were times I was losing weight so bad because I was broke. I can’t imagine what I would’ve done with kids. I was young and so worn out from life and I was just taking care of myself. It’s crazy to see friends I had with kids making it. Often said, what am I doing wrong.
It’s understandable ❤
Broke parents have resources available to them typically not eligible for childless parents.
Tax credits for one
Chris, this was one of the most powerful podcasts I've listened to and I regularly listen to some of the greats. Thank you for doing this interview.
At 0:19:45 Chris & Stephen completely undermine the meaning of this data. This idiotic "you live your life they way you want to" libertinism is central to this problem. I have several kids. It's bloody hard. I don't get to write & make videos like I could were I childless. I can't help but notice the UA-camrs I like - Chris, Tim Pool, malace - are childless. Again, this ideology is CENTRAL to the problem. We do need social pressure to step up & stop being narcissistic Peter pans. "this desire is innate" - what nonsense. How can you empirically investigate if a woman who says at 25 she doesn't want kids, wait till she's 50 & compare with the parallel universe where she did have kids?? You're just reinforcing the message that it's OK to avoid the responsibilities of being part of a multigenerational game where we all need to work hard.
As a girl child of the 60’s I made a personal decision to not contribute to the population “problem” (by abstaining). It seemed innocuous enough, just not being one of the parents. I spent my life caring for my elders and serving severely disabled folk. Now at 64, I realize I listened to propaganda. I probably would be a better person if I’d experienced parenting, even though I’m really not psychologically suited to the task. Sorry, everyone.
No need to be sorry in my opinion.
Shes not saying that. Hers was a noble life of service, but because of the negative messaging she received when she was young she didn't want kids. She could have done all of those things and still had children.
Sorry to hear that.
@@kc6810 you're devalueing both motherhood and the helping professions with your thoughtless comment
No one is suited until they have them.
I'm 43 and my partner is 33. We had our first child on December 22. I purposely waited as I wanted to be financially stable and able to be at home more once I had children. Now we've had one I wish I had had a child much earlier. Logically, waiting made sense and I am more stable than in my late 20s or early 30s but I now feel like I've missed out by holding off for so long and perhaps what's worst is that I'll be 53 when my daughter is 10, 63 when she is 20 and so on. I already feel myself slowing down and will only slow down more over the years... In simple terms, if I had had my Daughter 10 years earlier she will have gotten to be a part of my life and me hers for 10 more years than she will now. It's an opportunity cost I didn't consider and didn't appreciate.
From an evolutionary perspective, we are biologically designed to have children earlier in our lives than I have. It's not just to do with things like menopause but also our hormones, brain chemistry and a million other things.
This is also a social, and cultural issue. Less women have children and those that are, do so later than in the past. Talking about the reasons for that and whether it's a good or bad thing is a minefield but from a Male perspective, the fewer fathers we have the worse off the whole world is. Nothing will teach a young man about responsibility quicker or more effectively than having a child. It provides purpose and meaning to your life something which many men don't seem to have in today's society, leading to higher rates of depression in men, higher suicide rates and many other issues.
In the past, men were not regarded as full adults until they father a child. Look at the sort of people running the world today. Most of them are childless. Having kids often changes people's mindset for the better.
@@taras3702 I have to agree. I was 30 when we had my son. Looking back on my mentality, I was technically an adult, but I was not a man until a few years after my son was born.
"Partner"...that kind of vocabulary is half the problem....what are you, oil men in west Texas??
@@mrfarenheit9159 me and my "Partner" are not married so the term "Wife" doesn't apply and "Girl Friend" also doesn't really fit the bill, having been with my other half for 6 years and having a child together it doesn't really convay the depth of our relationship. I'm completely open to some other term if you can think of one that fits the bill better?
Congratulations to you and yours!!!💞👍🌻
I accidentally got pregnant at 20 and had my daughter at 21. The biological dad didn’t stick around but I married a 24 year old man who was ready to have a family. We had a son together, he worked and I stayed at home with the kids. Now our kids are in their late teens. I’m 40 and just about to graduate with my bachelors degree. We’re very happy and are glad we made the decisions we made. I can’t tell you how many people used to tell me I did things all wrong and should’ve gone to school first and got a job. I’m glad I did things in the order I did, even if I didn’t plan it that way.
Tell that man every day you value him. Most guys would never go for the single mom situation. You got lucky.
@ judging from your comments, you have an issue with single moms. Not all men do. We’re lucky to have each other.
@@GUITARTIME2024true
One of the reasons I left teaching at 30 was because the pay was so poor for the south of England that I could see how I could afford a wife and kids. Now have a job earning 5x more and married with 2 kids. Financial security is a massive issue.
what is your job?
I struggled really hard financially for most of my life. I was basically a failure despite enormous. Then later in life I inherited a large Fortune. Life improves so much when you are financially independent and people treat you so much better it both made me happy and sad
The worrying thing, is when we see that collapsing young population means there will be fewer and fewer working age adults able to support the system. This will make it even more difficult to support a family. More women will need to be working long hours just to build a life. If women are concerned with career before family now, that can only become a larger issue as people struggle more and more to make a living. I’m not suggesting women shouldn’t be free to make choices. I simply believe the future will make the choice to become a mother even more inaccessible to women. I’m a mother. I count myself blessed to have a husband and my children. I know many other women who want the same, but the most common thing I hear is that people just can’t afford to bring a child into their life. It’s very sad.
Someone needs to tell Africans, and middle easterners. This is only a problem in the west. But the same problem around the world is getting RICH and comfortable stops people from having kids. When you're poor kids are insurance, and when you're rich they are just a nuisance. People are selfish and it's extremely hard to admit. My lady and I make a combined 95k in the USA and we're about to have our 3rd kid. We just don't live the life of luxury.
@@EveIsJustMyBlogName I think that the opposite will be the case. Population increase makes urban land enormously expensive, so housing will be more expensive. Homes with yards have disappeared. And who wants to live with a baby and a toddler in a little flat 4 storeys up?
I adopted my first at 32, had biological twins at 36, and one more at 44. Praise God! I definitely tell my children to have theirs early! It was an uphill battle for me.
I had - due to health reasons - my first child at 42 and twins with 45. I wouldn't have done so by choice, but I see many advantages as well. I know much more and I need less in this period of my life. I would have been a worse mother earlier.
Wow 🎉
@@heikejohannajahns3257 did your children come out okay with no birth defects? Sorry I don’t know any other way to ask that.
@@kc6810 I don't mind, don't worry. Yes, they are alle healthy and fine. Now 17 and 14.
It should be a crime to have children at that age.
It's great discovering that almost everything 'society has preached to us has been wrong.
Not everything. It's only a matter of perspective
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Enough to where it puts into question everything else.
@@maniswil2 very good point
Especially feminisms lies
I live in Ireland. Global warming does not scare me.
They're unaffordable for most people.
God forbid they fix that .... amazing
I was 38 years old when I had my first child. My husband was 40 years old and we have been talking about this between us wishing we would’ve met earlier and started this family project earlier. We both have professional careers, my husband is still doing his PhD. This podcast really put into words and data what I have been feeling about my own situation. I keep telling ALL young people I meet to start earlier. Looking back , I would’ve done things differently but hey… at least now I know I am not the only one thinking the education, the culture , the dating , the men and women relationship narratives need to shift for the next generation. I loved the podcast, thank you so so much for your work and I will be looking forward to help others avoid the challenges we’ve had to face having children later. 👍🏼👏❤️
Thank you for speaking up!
Hats off for being honest, more people need to hear this.
I always wanted the family thing as a man, but chances are becoming less like now as I'm 43, and the state of modern dating/courting as well as my individual goals. To your point though I remember being late 20's talking with another co-worker who married his wife young and had 3 or four kids by the time he and his wife were 23 or so; good Catholic Mexicans. At the time he was mid 40's and was advocating the same thing. Have em young and be able to enjoy your middle years with freedom. His only regret at the time is that his two boys, mid 20's were both still at home and the Wife wouldn't let him kick the baby-birds from the nest.
Very well said, wow so simple yet poignant.
@@derekhamel2991 hey , tell me about it. The dating scene can be brutal especially the online dating experience. All I can say is use online dating like a tool, put yourself at places with people who probably share one common interest. Take classes, be a bit bolder to approach anyone you feel good energy from. Don’t give up. I started the online dating in my 30s and I was a late bloomer, not the feminine sexy type and I didn’t care much of what people thought of me… but then I wanted family and a marriage based on love and for that I had to « optimize » my strategy. I lost ton lf weight to be more appealing to men (being a fat woman decreases your mating range!) I read Harville Hendrix books , found out how I was « f**up », dated around, recognize my patterns… try to improve them, met some men , all of them were really nice people. Even when things don’t work out, we always wished each other better luck. We are all in this game together trying to reach our goals so why not encourage ourselves and help one another. You should keep going, as a man you can have a kid at 60! Look at Clint Eastwood! Hehe
There is a woman/man/it for everyone. It is never too late for love. I met my husband on Happn. He was the only one I talked to on my 1 week trial of the app.
I’m sure you’re a great guy. Don’t give up. Look up to women in the streets and smile to them, open doors for them. Not all women think that is toxic masculinity . 😉
I dropped out of my masters program at age 23 when my husband and I had our first child. It was important to me that I be the one at home raising my children. 14 years later, I am still a stay at home mom to our 3 children. My husband has moved mountains to make sure he has been able to work and earn enough to support me and our children on his income alone.
If our species wants to survive into the future we will need to put the priority back on the family and less on career success and “lifestyle freedom”.
Kudos to you and your husband. We did the same thing.
I read this as "women need to focus on raising a family and finding a provider and not education and independance."
That starts by telling 20 year old men to grow up and stop extending adolescence until 30 and then postponing family until they can afford it. Women are career focused because they know they have to support themselves and a family while their male counterparts are seeing how many notches they can cut into the bedpost.
@@Jirizo1 Yes Sir. Women are free to do what they choose. But when the mother is focused on her career and freedom, someone else is taking care of and raising her children. Usually the government run public school system and daycare providers. Since the big feminism push in the 60s and 70s, the family unit and especially children in our society have paid a great price for making women believe that taking care of your children and home is not worth their time and a useless job because it doesn’t make money.
I believe family and children should come first for the mother. If we still have time and energy left after these things, then sure, pursue a career or other personal freedoms.
@@kimberlyjean2248 I'm 84 so I've seen this from the start ... The two greatest contributing factors were: 1.) the "Pill" which led to 2.) pie-in-the-sky women's lib.
The answer is ... teen years end at 19 and work begins at becoming a responsible adult.
I laughed (bleakly) at how "this is the best time in history to live on Earth!" turned so swiftly into "of all the nightmares we could live in, this is the most luxurious"!
my life was fabulous up through age 65 years …… i have the best partner i could dream of …….. from year 49 and beyond i have been useless except for party-time ……. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Let’s all go to Sugar rock Candy Mountain
It really feel like the end of the world roof top party right now. Nothing makes sense, economy, government, foreign policy, national debt, feminism, LGBTUKHFBUFVEQ, Wokism....
On the other hand market meltup, hosuing FOMO, packed mall and bars.
However this ends, it wouldn't be pretty, but at least right now the drinks are still flowing
@@sunso1991 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ cheers to you …..lets all go to sugar rock candy mountain
So you prefer living in the 1940s? Or maybe earlier where the mortality rate everywhere around the world was like the Congo or worse? It is still the best time to be alive for 99.7% of people on earth.
It is easy to make the mistake of assuming doom and gloom from these podcasts. They’re important but putting too much weight on them is insane.
@@LogicSpeaks The 1940s were the most catastrophic decade in human history, so not a good comparator. In general, though, anything before the internet would be an improvement; anything before the nuclear bomb has an obvious advantage; anything before 1914, when the intellectual and artistic culture of my civilization was still at its peak, would be excellent, and anything before the despoilation of the land and systematic degradation of the poor by industrialization would probably be best. I know war, disease and poverty were great evils then, as now, and if magically transported back in time I would not cope; but if I were born into it I would have the same chance as anyone. Besides, the Victorians could claim with just as much justice as we can to have mitigated those problems - as could the Georgians and the Stuarts, for that matter. They were making progress almost throughout. The twentieth century, on the other hand, was a devastating backwards step for humanity. Renaissance intellectuals were constantly going on about how the times they lived in were the best ever; if you don't find them wholly convincing, I don't have to find you wholly convincing!
Mortality is an especially bad metric because most of that is infant mortality - sad, but well within the normal range of human experience.
sometimes Not having kids can be a great act of love for unborn children.
It’s not enough telling people how having children is usually part of our dreams, or how we might change of mind later in life etc., if you get reality check you realize that having children without money, education, family support etc., it’s the prefect recipe for unhappy children and frustrated adults. At then end, those kids would be our kids, and who wants to see their kids to suffer in this horrible world?
As conscious human beings I think many young people have came to the realizations that if you are going to contribute to bring more human to be eaten by the system, you rather don’t have them.
This is a significant issue that governments just refuse to acknowledge and deal with. My late wife and I knew from wider reading that having children young is so sensible, when you are older after child-rearing, you are young enough to travel and enjoy life. We married at 20 and 21, had three children,before we were 30, but wanted five (health stopped this plan) and were then grandparents in our early 50’s. Sadly she died at 51, but now I have nine beautiful grandchildren, the eldest is 15 and I am not yet 65. God is good and we are designed to reproduce young. Modern culture deceives and deludes and is slowly killing itself. This chap describes the saddest people; those who delayed family too long due to the culture of the day.
I don't see anything appealing in having nine grandchildren. One or two would be enough.
@@zumurudlilit If the breakeven TFR is 2.1 then the breakeven grandchildren rate is 4.41. Reversing the math, having 1 to 2 grandchildren is equivalent to a TFR of 1 to 1.4, i.e. the levels which are doing it for Japan, S. Korea, Italy etc.
@@zumurudlilit Bro, really. Your insecurity is showing.
I agree with you 100%! Having 9 grandchildren is outrageous, ridiculous, and totally extreme.
@@theresabromar5415It’s 3 grandchildren a child, not really groundbreaking
My wife is a nurse, and as part of her education, she became very much aware of the fertility window, and the increasing risks of motherhood at later ages. She was 23 when we married, and from the beginning, was insistent that we have children before she turned 30, which we did. Thank goodness I listened to her. We are now in our 50s, in great health, with much more time and money to travel the world and enjoy life than when we were in our childless early / mid-20s.
Different times
You’re almost a boomer you don’t understand the issues you’re children will face in this life and especially their children if they are even going to have them.
Good for you, love to have a women and child in my life, tons of doomers are out here
@@kni9ghtmodern women are the issue, not worth time spent on dating them. Stay childless.
It’s not that big of a deal my guy, several of our friends are having kids in late 30s a couple in their 40s as women .
I am a 38 year old American male with four children. My wife wanted five.
We are planning on eventually taking care of her mother who is just turning 60. We will never have a empty home. You sacrifice for those you love.
That's very nice of you to take care of your wife's mother
Good for you! But is not a general trend in N.America, Europe or East Asia
Hope you can afford to support all those people.
Good for you! That’s Wonderful!❤
Tragic. My sons are 20 and 24 and i am looking forward to empty house. Btw my ex-husband's grandma lived alone till her death at 97 and firmly refused to live with her daughter or son. It was her space and she intended on keeping it this way. Even when she broke her leg and died soon - she didn't allowed her daughter to stay overnight. She was allowed to come in in the morning, prepare breakfast, then a nurse in midday and her son in the evening.
As someone who never had a family or really any exposure to even a functional relationship throughout my childhood, I think this really set me up for failure.
I wanted to be an engineer since before I even knew such a thing existed. The only thing I wanted more than that was to have a family one that. These were the two dreams I had in life. So, in spite of my extremely disadvantaged childhood, I found my way into college and put in the work. I made the Dean's List most semesters, tutored math up through multivariable calculus, had a technical paper published, tested for Mensa out of curiosity and qualified, and graduated with honors along with receiving a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. I thought I had a job lined up at Honda after graduation, but it fell through, and I went on to apply for hundreds of engineering jobs with no success. Eventually, I had no choice but to accept reality.
Once I realized that neither of my goals would ever be accomplished in the slightest, I no longer had any motivation to succeed or do anything at all really. My life continues, but entirely without hope, so I'm really just existing until the end.
I got an engineering degree at age 30 thinking it would always be a guarantee of a good job.
Found out it doesn’t work that way. After twelve years I left the field. Self employed now for 24 years.
Also, unless you are highly skilled, once you get out you are not likely to get back in.
I told my wife twenty years ago I’m just waiting to die. But I paid off the house and live debt free since 2012. It’s better now.
🫂
Recommend you exercise to breathlessness regularly - but not daily. It will sharpen your mind.
You are not a cook. Become one. Straightforward quality with flavour. It will satisfy you deeply.
Get Christopher Hitchens, Gordon Murray, and Nial Ferguson on talking books. Pay attention.
Buy straight, presentable new clothes.
Practise smiling with your eyes playing their part.
Read the news. Be up with the play.
Think about the ancient wonder of life.
@@JohnMacShane I live in a car.
In Australia, business and government love the drop in the birth rate. It gives them the excuse to bring in cheaper migrant labour.
They’ve violated the social contract! All they care about is profit!!
For any one birth they bring in five immigrants
Lol, that’s called shooting yourself in the foot. Look at some of the heavily migrated European countries. Lots of them have been taken over by Islamics and the laws have changed to meet their needs. Eventually it’s no longer the original country, but the migrants. Lol
Australia: the continent built upon the backbone of convicts being sent there. Makes perfect sense.
@@princesspikachu3915 Australia wasn't built by convicts.
This episode put a tear in my eyes, next year my wife and I are planning to have our first child and you just remove all hesitation from me. Thank you ❤
@@Chris-es3wf We’re waiting 3 months actually, gynecologist appointment. So what anyway, are you a father already?
God bless
All the best❤
it si the best thing on the world, it is incredibly hard, but it is worth it. when i was younger i was saying i don't want children because i was traveling the world, having fun, now i have 2 kids and i want two more. my wife is 30 and i hope we can get at least one more. it just makes you a real men, and a grownup
@@nonnoyobisnis8705 I meant the life to work balance, and so on. as hard, not the kids, the kids are easy
The only reason the UK’s birth rate isn’t as low as the rest of Europe is probably due to the masses of foreigners that entered the country over the last few years, who then went on to give birth here. The most popular baby names give a clue as to the demographic change.
According to the Office of National Statistics "Muhammad was the most popular boys' name in four out of nine English regions". Muslim women produce a lot of babies.
@@BiblicalBasics no, almost every first son is given this name. So it is misleading. The group that have the most children are Polish women, from what i heard.
@@BiblicalBasics Indeed, men know their rights as fathers, providers, protectors and women knows her position. Hence why you find peace and harmony in majority Muslim families.
@@thebeast09876 65% of muslims marry their first cousins. In England this equates to 1/3 pakistanis bearing children with genetic disabilities. The religion has some benefits but massive drawbacks.
@@maniswil2 65% impossible, but I do agree there are a % who marry their first cousins and have these problems mainly in boys. Ultimately Islam keeps families and communities together in peace and harmony, you will see the spirit of brotherhood when breaking fast together.
I'm 60. Never wanted kids. Never had them. It has been the single best decision of my life. Financial advantage. Freedom to follow a career and life choices that have taken me around the world. If you want kids, have them if it's what you want and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices. Many of my friends have chosen not to have children for the same reasons. Modern life offers different choices to those previous generations had which means kids are a huge limitation. Lamenting dropping birthrates is pointless. We need to adapt to a future with less people. No bad thing in my mind for both the planet and every other species who also inhabit the world.
There is an important point here regarding how much we need to be sensitive to the hurts and difficulties experienced by others. Life is a challenge, there are many challenges. It isn't what the challenges are, it is how we negotiate them. As a young exhausted widow, with 2 children, working in mental health, I listen to family concerns, marriage concerns, and happy family stories all day. I think it is really important that we come to appreciate others joy, rather than expecting others to be sensitive to our hurts. I am happy to be sensitive to the needs of others, however I have noticed that I feel I am not allowed to be outwardly proud or joyful about, for example, having had children without medical interventions. Apparently this is hurtful to those mothers who are obliged to take pain meds, or other procedures. Having had beautiful, natural births is a huge point of pride and joy for me. I want to be happy for people's joys, including my own. I don't want to oblige others to tend to my broken heart, that is my responsibility. We need a balance here.
Just talk to men, instead of trying to communicate with judgemental progressive females. Everything in life is easier and better if you isolate yourselves from those types.
@@kc6810being breast fed actually does matter for the immune system.
So much so that here if babies are in the hospital they will ask the mother if she is able to bring in her own milk that they will then feed that through the feeding tube.
They actually keep said milk in the freezer.
Of course if it's impossible it is sad and fortunately we do have alternatives for those people.
@@dodopson3211 I agree. It’s very very important for the baby if at all possible.
Well said. The last thing we need more in the west is being more "sensitive".
You’re allowed to be happy; but bragging isn’t polite. It never has been.
I feel like I’ve completely lucked into having had a wife and three kids. We had our first child at 25/23 through sheer recklessness. Just a feeling of ‘It’d be cool to have a baby’ and , man, did we suffer for that economically! There’s then a 10 year gap as we recovered financially and then another 6 from there. But at 46, I feel like one of the luckiest guys I know. There’s never going to be a ‘right’ time - just do it!!
Really? But what if one struggles to get a girlfriend and does not have a lot of money?
@@shanepatrick641 You don’t need lots of money to get a girlfriend - that’s a myth promulgated by ‘influencers’ trying to con you. Shave, keep your hair tidy, wear clean, ironed clothes that fit you properly, be friendly and polite. Learn how to pay a compliment without coming across as creepy - don’t say “you’re a total babe”, say “nice earrings”.
When you get a GF, just be nice and not too heavy. Don’t be possessive or jealous. Make an effort to get on well with her family and friends. And when you’re a year in, take it up a notch - ask her to live with you, for example.
That’s all probably bullshit - but it’s the best I’ve got! Good luck, Shane!!
Accidental kids are a blessing. Not a curse. Whoops! Oh, hey, you're awesome!
@@martynmcclure7121 Thank you Martyn! Ha ha 😄 I appreciate the advice 😊
My longest relationship was six months, but we lived too far apart. Broke my heart, best relationship I ever had, I'll struggle for a while but I'll take your advice on board.
(Screenshotted your comment if you don't mind)
@@martynmcclure7121 and DO NOT SIMP😊
Thanks
This was a great talk BUT you guys really dropped the ball in my opinion by not pointing out how social media has destroyed in-person interactions and how social media has diminished the social skills humans rely on to reproduce.
Population decline began in 1973, long before social media.
I don't think it's social media per se, but the decimation of third spaces like churches and bars and movie theaters. Now you might ask why those places where ppl hang out and meet new ppl. Today ppl meet online but as great as those places are, they are isolating. A girlfriend won't drop into your couch.
@@morganseppy5180 I can't agree more. I live in Australia and our average birthrate is 1.63 I think. I used to live in a regional city. Everything was so regulated. Activities that welcomed children were unwelcoming to adults. Whilst adult activities didn't allow children.
Since moving, things have gone back to what it used to be. Pubs are back to providing toys and playgrounds so both parents and children are welcome. And we have community activities for things like New Year Eve. Face painting and petting zoos for little ones, carnival rides for older kids, and live music and beer and cider for parents and older teens.
Something as simple as helping an eighty year old with her grocery bags, might mean an introduction to her twenty year old granddaughter. Who knows? The big thing I've found is that people are still having 2-6 kids. Completely different to cities.
@@grannyannie2948I don't recall the exact countries but I think in many western countries growth rates started declining as early as 1960
Red pill content! Why would a woman want to date a man that watches Andrew Tate?
I was a dad at 29, purely by accident. Now I'm 42 and not dating, a lot of this resonated with me. So glad I've got my daughter as I'm unlikely to have managed to do so otherwise.
Most eldest children that I know of were accidental. Their parents always thought that they would have children "sometime" but only because everybody else does.
Did you just accidentally decide to have sex? I hate when that happens! There wasn’t ANY amount of premeditated intention? Just 100% caught off guard? Hmm
@@Robert.Zimmermann Every effort was made in the way of contraception actually. Both the pill and condoms.
My partner was advised it was unlikely she was ever to conceive naturally.
So ye, I'd say accidentally.
This kind of content is what the Internet should be used for! 👌
Spot on statement
@@oneschance Yes
Yes
Most women that i know have regretted having kids so young specially hab they got divorced. They had no resources, their pension could not pay the bills ans they basically invested in poverty by hving children.
For women this is simply not qorth it and politicians couldn't care less about what women need.
Great stuff as always, Chris! Your channel is very underrated, but I am confident it will continue to grow in popularity because your subject matter is both interesting and important. Keep up the good work, brother! Glad to have you in Texas!
As someone living in Germany and working in the medical field I can only confirm that the whole "old peoples' homes" branch is a rising financial milk cow, while the care truly provided is suboptimal
All those young muslims will take great care of you. Lol
Talking about Germany, the doctors are so dismissive. It is like they need your money but dont want to see you in their office and the world thinks Europe and America have the best medical care.Example, my son had intestinal bleeding and the doctor just wrote for a cream and no further investigations. never took history,no general examination of the child. when we asked questions, they acted as if we were questioning their intelligence and looked agitated and act busy. THAT IS TOTAL NEGLIGENCE RIGHT THERE
That's why I would rather be the old man in a cabin untill I die then think of having a younger generation take care of me. Most can't take care of themselves. Many are still living at there parents home.
Same here in the states
A WHO report says: Rates of a6use of older people are high in institutions such as nursing homes and long-term care facilities, with _2 in 3 staff reporting that they have committed abuse in the past year._
Imagine that. You'll get medicated and handled roughly, or even abandoned.
As a parent of four, the sad thing is I have no grandchildren and may never have any grandchildren at all. I, too, have felt this grief...
My friend is one of three sisters, none of whom have children and are all almost 40, their parents so wanted grandkids. It's worst for my friend because ever since she was little she's wanted to be a mother more than anything, but cancer put a stop to that. Such a shame.
Don't be greedy. You had 4 kids.
My main reasons are:
1. The cost of childcare.
2. My husband works insane hours for the nypd (he has no say regarding his schedule and overtime) because of that my life would be one of a married single mother. If I could afford to be a stay at home mom, I might still consider it but that’s not the case.
3. How humans are treating the planet.
I left a 8 year relationship in 2020 with a person who never wanted to get married or have kids but we got a large house together. I remember feeling like it was a tomb. I didn't want to grow old and die alone with him. I was raised to believe having children young or getting married young would ruin my life. But now I kinda want a family. But it feels so weird to say. Most of the women I know who are my age (late 20's early 30's) with babies are raising them alone. I don't want that. I want my kid to have a father and grandparents and stuff! I personally don't have a family and it's dangerous and lonely. Any emergency I'm in I have to network my friends together to help me. That's not acceptable for raising a child. It's barely reasonable for an adult! Plus, I'm ridiculously poor.
I have a female friend who just had a child, alone, at 32, so she fits in with what you have noticed. As for me, I'm a guy in my 50's who was never particularly in a hurry to have kids, but figured I'd eventually 'meet the right girl' and nature would take its course, and that simply didn't happen. Now it feels ridiculous to still hold out hope that I might find someone to have kids with... does not seem likely at all.
@@impactfoto your 32 yo friend is the worst thing possible.
The problem isn't declining numbers of children being born the problem is the disintegration of FAMILY FORMATION.
I'll bet your friend will be the first to demand special treatment and taxpayer support because ... "I'm a single mom". Draining the life out of working MEN (& women) to support her choice. She's EXACTLY one of the primary causes of how we got into this situation.
Single women shouldn't be allowed sperm donations or taxpayer support nor should "rainbow" people be allowed to adopt.
I am rich. I will marry you and we will make baby.
@@impactfoto50s is too old to be a new Dad. Woodworking.
If you have friends who are single moms, AND you're poor, the chances are high you'll be the same. Don't do it. Kids need a solid father IN the house. It's a 2 person job.
Amazing. It is a very interesting and difficult topic. I see many "old" women having children at 40+ and suffer the lack of energy and the frustration that comes with It. My sister, for example. I even notice It myself when I play with my niece. This is something some people, men and women, do not take into account, specially if you don't have your parent's help.
⬆ ʜɪᴛ ᴍᴇ ᴜᴘ......💬❤❤.
@@Telekeellol
I'm 36 and a mother to a beautiful daughter, it's the most fulfilling thing I will ever do. Raising children right is hard but it's the most joyful and rewarding thing you'll ever do. This sounds like a daft inspirational quote but it's true. Your horizons expand considerably when you become a parent.
Wise words
But what if you want to be a 3x dog mom
I would say its because the standard of living is plummeting and has been for a while. We peaked out and plateaud for a couple of decades and then slowly at first and then increasingly things started to get worse and people see that trend and realise theres a long way to fall
Stephen does a great job explaining problems in a polite way. It's difficult to be blunt and explain how people sabotage their own reproduction.
I am so glad to hear this is one of your pet obsessions, I’ve been learning about this for about 6 months now and I feel like we are already passed the point of no return, we just don’t realise it because the true impact hasn’t landed yet.
Blame secularism and atheism, as per La Mettrie and historical atheists: without God ppl devolve into endless short term hedonism
But who is ‘we’. Some entire continents growing exponentially.
@@nonfictionone there’s no “some” continents growing exponentially. A few countries are around a fertility rate of 5 .
That’s high, but not as high as you might think, especially considering infant mortality rates in these countries are much higher than western countries.
Even if a few stay above replacement of 2.1, considering we live in a global economy, these countries at 5 will still suffer.
@@nonfictionone the world works on a balance of trade network’s between countries, when certain countries can’t keep up their end of the bargain the whole system falls behind…
@@nonfictiononename 5
Interesting how even in the absence or high mortality, natural selection finds a way. There's a massive evolutionary chokepoint happening right now because a lot of people aren't reproducing which means the people who ARE reproducing within their own populations will have a huge impact on the future of human traits.
Brilliant comment.👍
Yeah, Amish and Mormons will end up ruling North America.
I don't feel the human race is in danger. But throughout, I was thinking how the large number of young adults taking vows of celibacy and failing to have children, contributed to the fall of Rome.
Also on the future of culture. The values of large family parents will be the values of tomorrow's society. Unless the public schools have their way.
Edit: For better or worse, the future will be VERY religious.
@@dontcallthemliberals3316 the pendulum swing?
40 or 45 years ago a family with just the father working could support a family, buy a house, a nice car, etc... That's a rarity now. Who has the time as well as the money.
Most people do have the money. Its the priorities. Designer baby clothes. Expensive baby carriers and strollers. Etc etc.
@@mynameisnobody3931 That's still much cheaper than another baby.
5 years elementary, 3 years middle, 4 years high school could be done in half that time. I still remember sitting in classrooms looking out the window wondering when my life was going to start. I'm 45 and never married and or had children.
Yes I agree u think we should finish school at 16 and go to college early.
Why did you not have kids?
I think something went wrong inside me during those high school years....
I'm in the exact same situation. Mid 40's, never married, no children. I have a high paying job, a lot of stuff, lots of investments, I want for nothing. But I question what am I doing. What's my purpose? To have all this to have a great retirement at 60? A family to share everything with is what I need.
I have 7 kids. Some tough stretches financially. No fancy house, vehicles or holidays. But every day facebook reminds me (thru pictures) i have a lot of fond memories. I just have 15 year old twin boys left and the caboose. My 10 year old girl. Went by so fast it seemed. I have no regrets.
this interview is so good. Chris, the people you bring in and the way you put themes forward is just on top of everything else theres's in here
I'll give my mom this: she told me that if I hadn't had kids by thirty to forget it. It's a do or die thing. Know what you want and know what you end up getting. Of course, it's also important to realize that having a child is not (or should not be!) a single person venture. It's not like going to the local car dealership and buying a mini van. There is someone else involved.
Yep and men are not stepping up to the plate so here we go again it’s all women’s fault damn if you do damn if you don’t. Everyone bags on Single moms especially if you have more than one child so yeah I’d like Christian’s and men to tell me again how it’s all women’s fault we get pregnant
My mom had me at 37 and had my brother at 40. My sister had her first child at 31 and second at 33. Many of my female cousins had their children after 35. One of my family friends just had her child at 39, and her mother had her at 40. It’s the same story with many women I know in my life, and all of their children are perfectly healthy. They waited until they were married. It’s not over at 30. Yes, chances to have children or have healthy children are not as favorable later on, but I know too many women having kids past 30 to believe chances are so abysmal. They ALL say that they don’t regret waiting, but most of the women I know that had kids in their 20s say they wished they’d waited. All that to say, I don’t believe it’s due or die at 30. Don’t give up just yet!
Sorry but you're perpetuating bs. I'm 31. All of my peers are having kids now. Early 30s. I'm around the corner. There is absolutely a point after 30.
I had mine at 30 and 32, after being married for ten years. We weren't ready before then.
@@pinchebruha405 Whose fault is it if women get pregnant?
I did a traditional 4 year apprenticeship as a heavy equipment mechanic after leaving school just before I was 17 in 1980. I finished that before I was 21. Some of the people I did apprenticeships with stayed in the trade and ended up as branch managers, workshop managers and so on. These guys have had a very good career. I also credit doing an apprenticeship to getting me through my late teenage years.
I ended up drifting through my 20's and then did the equivalent of grade 12 at night school when I was 28. I graduated as an engineer, and at the top of the class, just before I was 34. I've been in engineering since then except for a 2 1/2 year period when I was made redundant at the age of 53. I was able to use my trade certificate from 1983 to get work on the tools at mine sites. When other engineers could only get work driving a Uber.
For a variety of reasons both personal and professional I'm not in quite the position I would like to be but I'm definitely a better engineer for having a trade background AND having done my degree in my late 20's / early 30's than I would have been had I done it straight after school.
Both my grandfather's did 5 year apprenticeships before moving into the drafting office and doing night school to obtain their engineering qualifications. My paternal grandfather was designing steam piping for nuclear power stations when he retired in 1963. My maternal grandfather was assessing patents in the UK patents office. Neither ever got an engineering degree.
Obviously everyone's experience will be different but while I did very well in my engineering degree I've hardly used any of the theory that I learned. The skills that I did learn and have been the most useful are: carry out research, find and assess information, touch type, and use a variety of both office and engineering software. These skills would apply to near everyone yet many clearly don't have them. I entered university in 1992 and graduated in 1996. I got my first computer in 1994 and there was very limited internet then. Plagiarising was much more difficult. The sort of people who plagiarise shouldn't be at university, they clearly do not understand why they are there. It's easy to say "graduate and get a job" but they are wasting the opportunity to learn by copying or allowing AI to write for them.
Became a dad at 17, 2nd kid at 21. Would not recommend, but I took my responsibility seriously working hard jobs to provide for them. I’m in my 40s and just now starting the career I wanted while my kids were young. I was hardly ever home with a 70 hr week during most of their childhood. I’m not an antinatalist, just remember that no one asked to be here. (Before you attack me, I love my kids with the very depths of my being and glad they are here).
Sounds like it wasn't the best way to go about it, but you did your best with the way things went. And you should be commended for taking responsibility.
Man you are still quite young and have two adult kids by your side.. Does that feel like having super powers?
Had 4 children early hard work and yes some times felt I wasn’t “there” all the time so so busy working odd hrs etc
… we are now married 45 years ( still happy ) and have eight grand children … all close…. you ve done a great job enjoy the rest of your journey with your family 🕊
Salute
I hear you I think its pretty common, me the wife married at W,21 me,22 first kid about year later. I worked a shit for job for 31 years. I had plans of starting my own business and then surprise kid #1 show's up ,so I stayed were I was, I carried the benefits ,and than you start to build longevity, pay raises, PTO , it made it harder drop everything and start something new in the middle of raising a family, and wasn't just me and wife I had to think about more. The only thing was my kids seen me coming home from work night after night dragging my ass through the door, never really complained in front of them ,but they knew. I think that reflected on them.- That said we had some good fun with kids over the years and me and the wife wouldn't change that for anything.
I think in the UK renting is not secure enough to start a family. My landlords have sold the property and served me notice on a few occasions. I've basically been on the verge of homelessness at this point. I have a good job but that doesn't guarantee you anything these days. My child has had to move school 4 times because of this.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, anomie and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be dehumanising and toxic.
Peace
@@kamrudkd well said.
@Cord Fortina The male to female sex ratios in the UK is 1.05 male to every 1 female.
That's in the age category of 15 to 44.
Now there are approximately 27 million ppl in that age category.
So that means that there are approximately 675,000 EXCESS males in the UK in that age category of 15-44.
Not even SINGLE men but EXCESS men.
What will its effects be?
With figures like this is it any wounder that females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe.
From the sad random/stranger murder of sabrina Nessa, aslingh Murphy, Sarah everhard.
To drinks spiking, to ME TOO
To
Rise in London record teenage murders to rise in riots to political extreme movements.
The EXPLOSION OF ONLY FANS.
Could this be related?
The standing British army is approximately 83,000
And we have approximately 675,000 EXCESS MEN.
That could mean that 5% of men in this category could possibly never find a long-term monogamous relationship.
🤔
@@kamrudkd you fail to understand London's record teenage murders are mainly because of the rise of single mother household's, most criminals in fact were raised by single mothers. It has nothing to do with there being excess men. "females report feeling harassed in society and feeling unsafe"' - true, but men are still way more likely to be victims of violent crime. Also an excess of 675,000 really isn't much really considering men are more likely to be gay and have disabilities than women are.
@mimimi queweq no your facts are wrong.
Men repot being gay less than women.
In the younger cohort of millennials and gen z are more women that identify as lgbtq.
This means that there are fewer heterosexual women in that cohort.
There are now published figures on it, one even from the UK 2021 census.
Just look it up
it's too expensive to exist, I'd never do that to someone else.....
Imagine being born to a world invented by humans for humans but you can’t even afford to exist there. Welcome to humanity.
@@FragmentedMindZ you just a drone this world is not build for you but for "them"
If the majority of our ancestors took that approach then there wouldn’t be humans at all.
True
@@robertwhiteley-yv1sy And?
I, like most men years ago, did not think much about fatherhood. When I had 3 son's, I knew it was the best years of my life. Still do.
I read Steve Biddulf , Raising Boys'. As the book recommended, i Gave sons lots of my time. We all had a great life.. still we are very close. It was like having your childhood over again. Great fun.
36:13 36:34 When I worked in retail, I had many 15-16 year olds talk to me about how much they loved babies. 17-30, not a peep, in fact, hated babies. I call it "the flip", usually last year of high school, or entering University, she becomes completely mesmerised by global options for everything.
I wonder if the "hate" is a subconscious self deluding defensive barrier?
It's either that or psychopathy to actually "hate" babies out right. It's worse than to "hate" defenseless pets and animals by an order of magnitude. Babies are the most defenseless of the defenseless. Something has to be really really wrong in the individual's psychology to actually hate such beings.
Those who say it as a defensive subconscious line actually are the ones who feel the pain of not having one in a very deep way and would care the most to a baby- tears running down their necks- if they find themselves locked with one, abandoned.
@@danyyboyechildren are a tremendous sacrifice to raise healthy and properly and it certainly isn’t for everyone! I thought I wanted kids - then I babysat for a while and realized this is drudgery and insane
Previous Grad student with a baby here... you can't IMAGINE the shock and awe - and FEAR of undergraduate women looking at my baby in the car seat when I would have him on campus. It was like "Oh God - Not one of those!! Don't look at it! Don't let it get me! Who brought that onto campus??"
In a healthy society womem should be raised to have children right away out of their teens and normalize it. It when they want to the most. If it's normalized there is no guilt wracking about having kids early. Then by time they are 40 their kids are adults THEN women can start careers. It's the right way to do it. Our society inverts everything and makes everything destructive and unhealthy on purpose.
One of the things to consider is that a lot of people are priced out of owning their own home where they can start a family. There has to be a psychological challenge of starting a family without having a roof over your head that is yours.
He basically mentions something like this in his documentary "Birthgap". The decline in births in most of these countries coincided with big economic or social shocks. Essentially, more and more people said 'what's the point in bringing a child into a world/society like this?'.
One of the most peculiar and interesting things about the post war era, in my opinion, is that we got told often that we'd never had it so good ('society is safer, more prosperous etc etc') and yet much of that period coincided with an increase in childlessness (an indication people are pessimistic about the future).
Yeah but everyone also has a new car and a new iPhone every year and eats out several times a week.
@@forzanerazzurri2339
The childlessness trend started in many countries before these over-consumption trends really took hold. The "stop spending on cars, iPhone, take aways" is a canned, overused response to this problem.
I'd wager even that the increase in over-consumption might be at the effect rather than the cause of increasing childlessness. In that people whose societies go through those economic and social upheavals choose over-consumption because they've decided to forego childrearing.
As in, 'if I'm not going to have the particular and deeper fulfillment that comes from childrearing -because who in their right mind wants to bring children into this society - then I might as well have hedonic fulfillment'.
@@argh2945 that's a really good point, over-consumption may indeed just be a symptom. Even the Philippines, a relatively poor country with a strong conservative family orientation, anti-abortion laws and 90% Catholic already has a fertility rate of 1.9 in 2022 well below the fertility rate from 2.7 in 2017. No matter how conservatives, the right or the likes of Jordan Peterson try to downplay it, the economic incentives to have smaller families is just too strong in this globalised industrial capitalist economy.
@@rodjayoma7085
Yes, the same reasons keep being used over and again (such as loss of traditional values/religion or over-consumption or lack of state support for families etc) but this childlessness trend has taken hold in both liberal and socially conservative countries, in developed and developing countries, in ones with high levels of state support for child care (Scandinavian ones for example) and ones with low levels of state support for child care (Japan for example).
This topic is really interesting to me because my mom had me, her 1st child, at 40. Thankfully no congenital issues from me being that late haha. My parents wanted a 2nd child and tried for one, but it just didn't happen, so they adopted my sister from India. That adoption was an expensive, long process that a lot of would-be parents aren't able (or willing) to complete. There's another world where that fell through too and I remained an only child. I imagine if my parents had waited just a bit longer, my mother might've been forced join the growing amount of women who'll never have kids. Heavy stuff.
That's really profound. What a beautiful thing they did by adoption, that's not an easy process. My 3rd is adopted, we're hoping to adopt another next year :)
@@sitcomchristian6886 Hope it goes smoothly!
While she was single in the 1970s my wife went to Bolivia to visit a friend. She was offered babies by their mothers if she would simply take them to the US.
At the time the Bolivian government would issue a birth certificate stating that the child was yours and born in Bolivia all for under $100. Infants weren't required to have a passport to enter the US and flew for free. But today things are simpler. Just go to the border and you can purchase a baby for less than roundtrip airfare to Bolivia.
It’s almost like not supporting mothers and families and telling young women it was more important for them to work than have children was a bad idea??? Who would’ve thought!
When I try to bring this topic up to others, that rebuttal of "so you're saying women need to be less educated and more domestic?" makes it incredibly difficult to discuss the ramifications of these societal trends. Then I try to point them to conversations like these, but they see the over 1 hour length and go back to watching TikTok.
Regardless, it's good to know that this is being talked about at some level. I'm still quite optimistic for the future of this roller coaster ride.
I’m surprised there wasn’t more discussion about the state of the economy, cost of living crisis, housing market bubble etc affecting this topic. Having children is very expensive, most young people can barely even imagine affording a house, nevermind affording a house plus children. It surely is a major driver of this.
Yet somehow people during and after hellish war times in way worse conditions with completely uncertain future were able to have more children than we do.
Really sounds like we are searching for reasons not to have kids
A total collapse of the economy in the first countries to face this problem? New solutions or a totally new economic model?
Very good point.
But I swear poorer nations have a lot more kids and their position financially, relative to western nations is much worse. I think the financial crisis is just a convenient excuse.
If we really had hard conversations with our old people we could go back to multigenerational living. It sucks, but no babies ever is way, way worse.
When I was a teenager in the late 60s my father made an observation to me (more than once) that made more and more sense as I got older. He said, if a man stays single into his 30s he will likely not get married (long term) because he will be so set in his ways that only the perfect woman will do - and there ain't so such thing as the perfect woman. I would guess that, perhaps in a slightly different way that similarly applies to women. You need to be young enough grow together and develop similar interests together.
Wow. Yes, I’ve seen this with my friends who are single.
Nah. I would be ok to marry a woman in her 20s because she hasn't been set in her ways, and if she doesn't have mileage and baggage. I wouldn't marry a woman my age.
We need to stop keeping young people in college then, 4 years is too long. U really can do it in just two.
@@edheldude Yeah same, relationships tend to get stressful and require constant work on both sides. It would be worth it if it was the right woman. I would prefer a woman not raised in western society and does not obsess over social media and is more family oriented. I am 33 but people think I'm in my early 20's. I avoid hook up culture. Not interested in STD's and sleeping with random women I don't care for that have been with who knows how many men. I chase health, self improvement, and living a life worth living
Yep, when young you have still tolerance and haven't yet defined who you are. When you too old you're already set in your way of living and don't have enough patience to tolerate someone else
Two questions: Why is it primarily MEN that are so concerned about the birth rate dropping and not women? And , why don’t any these MEN acknowledge and discuss the fact that the experiences of parenthood and marriage is VERY DIFFERENT for men and women, with women getting the short end of the stick?? Why don’t they highlight how imbalanced having and raising kids is for most women??
Exactly.
This guy provided some great new info that I had not heard before: That there is a growing segment of “no children” adults
A Japanese widower was being interviewed about the living conditions in their society said that loneliness and isolation were bad because in their society they are not allowed to socialize or speak to those not on the same level of the hierarchy they have achieved. So this man will die alone and someone will eventually find his body due to the stink. How sad is this?
It seems to be how society has aligned incentives everywhere.
The dissolution of extended family members living and working together has made life lonelier and more difficult. Independence and nuclear families has a cost. @@jmanakajosh9354
stupid comment. Loneliness is now prevelant even among 30 year olds. Especially man.
34:30 So true. Women are shamed in society for having children in their late teens/early 20s, when that's suppose to be the most fertile time period for them. Also, it's not viable to have children at that age in today's societal structure, where younger ppl are forced to pursue college/uni degrees and get into debt, and not be able to support kids or even think about having them.
Mothers spend their time in the service of others for the greater good. What if we offered them something similar to the GI Bill? Young women looking to start a family would benefit men as well.
It's not more fertile than the mid or late twenties or even the early thirties.
@@tomasrocha6139 No, it is. Younger the women, the better. The older they get = birth defects!
@@tomasrocha6139
It is safer on her body at least, compared to other years.
@@tomasrocha6139 Not true. Female fertility decreases after age 19. Peak is between 17 and 19. However, how many 17 to 19 year-old are capable of raising childen well in society as it is today? We have the same biology as we did millenia ago but civilization is not the same. Child rearing should not be left to children and that is what most 17-19 year-olds are.
All the concern about population decline is becos corps and govts are losing avenues to make money becos of reduced work horses and consumers. They tried fixing it though immigration put people are turning against this ! If people had decent working conditions and pay, everybody would love to raise children, but that would go against the govt and corporate Agenda!
One of the best episodes so far. Thanks Chris for doing this!
The west has below replacement level fertility for 4 decades now. Ppl aren't having kids.
There are more old white ppl than children. More white ppl die then are born in most countries. About a third of the population is over 65.
Marriage and family formation is at all time lows. Children out of wedlock all time highs. Now more black kids go to university then whites as a proportion. White boys from poor backgrounds do the WORST in schools.
More young white ppl identifies as LGBTQ+/trans now. (It's legal in the west, so I'm comfortable with that). But they statistically have fewer children.
There is huge national debts/gdp. They have been fighting wars in muslim countries iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and quiet wars in African muslim countries. (What did they achieve? Why did they truly go to all these wars? Who will truly benefit?.....ohh you, your children and grandchildren (if you had any) will pay for these wars from YOUR tax money)).
So with all this going on, in 20 short years time who will look after the old in the west? Where will the young ppl be, to work and pay taxes to support the NHS, adult social care, pensions etc....there will be MORE old white pensioners then young white ppl that work and pay TAXES.
Where will the new consumers, borrowers and economy stimulatetors come from............
If not from the immigrants and the children of the ethnic ppl and Muslims?
Is ALL this muslim ppl fault.
What do you think?
Amazing episode.
I never had planned or desired to have kids when I was young. After getting married I got my wife pregnant. That boy is now 14 years old and I do not regret it at all. We had another child as well because we wanted our older child to have someone in this life for after we pass. I do not regret that decision ever. I am glad to be able to have passed my knowledge on to the next generation.
My wife and I both turn 65 this year. Never had children. Our greatest life regret. 😢
I turned 62 this year. Never had children. Never had a moment's regret. Have kids all you want, save society, whatever you're into. But some of us are damn happy childfree. Don't let anyone push you in either direction. It's the most personal and life-changing decision of your life. It needs to be YOUR decision, 100%.
Here in the year of our lord 2023, having children is nothing more than an expensive headache. Be glad you skipped that garbage and live life to its fullest extent.
@@abrajean9634 im glad you didn't have kids
@@TheXantaur me too 🥰
Similar age never had kids. Great! Looking at my friends just because you have kids doesn't mean they stay around you. Siblings clash, family disputes happen, my husband an only child died before his parents. Even having kids doesn't mean they will always be there.
38, planned on having two kids, and throughout my 20’s did not have the financial ability or right partner (dating largely impacted by lack of money). Was focused on college and building a career, was poor and miserable. Now doing quite well and can’t get a date much less a partner.
Fascinating conversation. Demographers have been speaking to the dangers of global population decline for years, but got no press whatsoever, so I'm glad to see this here.
One point I take issue with is the equating of "poor" people having large families many years ago to the idea that they still can now. The idea that families aren't willing to do without creature comforts in order to have children may be valid in some respects, but strikes me as short-sighted.
Many years ago, when families were largely self-sustaining, many children were encouraged because they became much needed free labor on family farms. During industrialization, children were sent to work in factories at early ages in orderto help support the family financially. It served a purpose.
We live in a time now where children are in school full-time until the age 18...and then many go on to additional schooling to gain opportunities at better paying careers, while still depending predominantly on their parents for financial support. For roughly two decades, parents support their children completely in a world where wages have been mostly stagnant since the late '70's while the cost of living has risen exponentially. Today's poor families struggle to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, period. There are few creature comforts to give up, even if they want to. Every child brought into that equation stresses the family unit even more. And we now know there is a direct relation between financial stress in a family and the occurrence of different types of abuse.
In the US, a father of two or more can work full-time at a skilled job and still qualify for food assistance because his income is under the poverty threshhold. Something about that just isn't right.
There are plenty of married couples who don't mind living a simple life, driving beaters for cars, rarely eating out, buying new clothes or taking vacations. But even these couples struggle to justify bringing children into the world, knowing that they won't be able to provide for them in a way that can give them a hand up in the world. They aren't wrong for that choice.
It's a complex issue with no easy answers. 😕
15 to 20 years ago, leftist would spin the conversation of demographic decline in the fall of working age population into a race guard game where they would tell minorities that you were talking about the fact that they would be more minorities in the future than white people and that’s what you are afraid of. They literally wasted 20 years, which is to say a whole generation of workers with their lies and propaganda to shut people up their whole. The world is too populated argument was there to but their arguments for birth control and abortion the whole time they knew this was bullshit from the very beginning. Don’t describe your good motives to other people , they were liars from the beginning and they just wanted to deceive you in order to get what they wanted which was a low population planet which they saw is better for the environment. Most of them were middle class and well off anyway, and it will hurt them a hell of a lot less than it’s going to hurt the poor .
I have heard nothing but panic since this started. However population is still rising in most countries.
I love how Stephen loves all people and shows great empathy. I also love how he believes he “lost his accent”, but sounds very Irish.
A big part is the people who had that first child but where Not planning for it to happen and once it did, they got married and just kept on making a family. Today, it is more possible than ever to avoid that first "Mistake".
In a world where people live like the second and not like the first we won't exist. Mistakes are to be learnt from to not repeat. Having a child is rarely a mistake. The mistake is having sex thinking a child couldn't be the end result. People don't like to be honest with themselves and lie unfortunately. It's sad. Sometimes you have to hold a mirror to the ape in the zoo just to see what happens. They generally toss excrement to make it go away.
Not to mention that you have a legacy and family to care for you in your old age. My father is 79. Today is his bday. The main thing that matters to him, makes him fulfilled and gives him purpose.... is being with loved ones. I love my father dearly. I'm so grateful for him.
I'm almost 39 now... i have no children. My wife is 42 and seems to be infertile, or it's me. I'm sensing more and more... that everything else is secondary to our dear friends and family. As I'm with my dad, I wonder who's going to be there for me when I'm his age?
It definitely seems easier to not have kids. Especially when you're young... but don't wait too long. When we are on our death bed... I'm 100% that the only thing we will hold dear, is the family we shared this life with.
Unfortunately, the death cult has brainwashed us so badly, that I don't see this ending well for many.
If you're a young woman.... don't listen to the poisoned, message. Don't wait too long to have kids. I know MANY older women who are not parents. Its often too late for them. Take a wild guess about thier biggest regret!
Young men... better and master yourself. Find a good woman and settle down. First you should understand women and yourself. Check out 'No more Mr Nice guy'.... it's a great, unbiased manual in gender dynamics. This will help you avoid disaster in our biased system against fathers.
I was 23 when I had my eldest and the shame that came smashing down on me from most women in our extended friend circle was unbelievable. The one that still rings in my ears was "But you're still a baby! You're just a baby, how can you be considering having a child!!??" From my husband's boss' girlfriend.
Lucky for me. I have always had my own mind and always know I wanted a lot of kids. My husband and I now have 5 beautiful children and it was of course the right decision, but that shocked face and the just point blank infantilization of me, a 23 year old WOMAN was just so weird.
I can't imagine most other young women holding up under a deluge like that and deciding to start a family anyway. In fact, out of my 22 cousins and every friend I grew up with only one cousin, which is a kindergarten teacher, and one friend, a conservative Vietnamese immigrant, have children. That's it. And all of us are in our late 20s to early 40s now.
Even today, 23 isn't a crazy age to have a child. A bit early but nothing crazy.
This is so much B.S. We've become selfish, narcecists. My wife and I are both 80 years old now, but we were young once. We got married at 19 while we were still in the military. Our dream was simole, to stay together forever, start a family and have a bunch of beautiful, healthy, childern. We did't dream of millions of dollars or Corvettes. I guess it's ok to do so, but for most of us, our best parenting years are early on and they don't last long . We had six, two boys and 4 girls, all educated and doing well. We somehow managed it. Credit to my wife, wisest person I know. Now we're hoppeing to make a dignified exit when our time arrives, without becoming a burden to them or anyone else.
This is exactly right. I'm 38 and about to have our 3rd child. I know people making 200k a year that say it's too expensive, but can spend 500$ a night drinking. People have become incredibly selfish and society endlessly caters to it. The old Mark Twain adage is the lead here about people being convinced they've been lied to. It's truly heartbreaking. Even worse is the ones that are so miserable and selfish they sabotage relationships of others or chase them into getting abortions.
🙏🤗
Agree, I find it hard to sympathize to these hypergamic women, because I've been there, going on dates with ladies and they drop you like a rock when you don't drive a nice enough car, have a nice enough house, when you're not a CEO or movie star. You consider yourself too important to be bothered with anyone, so we'll leave you and your 7 cats to ponder how someday Mr Right will come along.
@@castirondude 80%of women are chasing top1% of men. Unfortunately those men only want to F around or settle with a hot 21 year old.
I’m a veteran myself and I’m expecting my first any day now. My wife and I both want what you seem to have. I’m the youngest of 7 and she’s the 5th of 6 so a large family is not foreign to us. God Bless thanks for your service!
I wish I could have started having kids earlier! I got married at 25 (I'm the female). We started trying for a baby when I was 26. Didn't conceive for 11 months (I blame the IUD). Then of course, pregnancy lasts nearly a year, so when I gave birth I was 28. We've kept the kids pretty close together and have 3 now. I'm turning 33 this year, but we're hoping for another before getting off "baby island" lol
Very well done😊
Kinda hard to have kids when most of the population find each other far too ooglee to date. 90% of women want the top 10% of men
❤
Not everyone want to do same
"didn't conceive for 11 months"... In the grand scheme of things, you're really going to complain about this "delay"? Many people struggle for YEARS to conceive... Count yourself lucky.
Chris and Stephen have discussed some excellent points about the dysfunction we find ourselves in with regard to finding a partner, having children, and making sure that women continue to have opportunities other than being a wife/mother. It may seem blunt, but it is time for boys/men to step it up. Defining a new or perhaps more complex role for the male gender in society might help. Different views of who women and men can be, needs an overhaul. We are better as partners in all ways. Let's be mindful of change.
I find it odd that the comments all point to delayed child bearing because of financial insecurity but a living wage that supports a stay at home mother is never really discussed.
As long as women are working it will not be the norm for a man to make enough by himself to support a family. There is a reason these trends started in the 70s and it rhymes with Weminism
40 year old male from the US here. I figure I'll probably be alone for the rest of my life. Not really much can be done about it. I'll never be a good enough partner. The grass is always greener, and whatnot.
And everyone will blame you. People in the new ideological mainstream will loathe you for your “privilege” and for the “violence” of your “entitlement.” The based minority will tell you that you could have singlehandedly created a different world if you had just gone to the gym more often. You’re part of a giant (giant!) cohort of “useless men” (to borrow a phrase from the Great Depression) whom the rest of society will be very eager to wash its hands of.
You never know when you might cross paths with the right woman.Get a dog, they're "chick magnets". It's how I met my last one,out walking my dog.
@@Dreckmal01 we don't have to let despair win brother.
I’m 39 and have been with my husband for twelve years. We both have good jobs but have chosen not to have children. The main reason I would attribute it to is that we couldn’t buy our first home until we were in our mid thirties, and although I thought I would have a family I didn’t envisage having one in a rented apartment. Now, we’re happy just as we are and are planning financially for the probability that we will never receive a state pension or social care.
" Now, we’re happy"
That will change
@@alwaysright3943 all things change and no one can walk all paths.
Have a little faith act on it you wimp have 2 kids back to back little scarred sky is falling not women enough to have kids , I had 2 nothing to it best decision ever EVER
Given that we are facing the situation that we have in front of us and there is a strong societal pressure, pushing people toward childlessness I find it incredible that you are so hesitant to strongly advocate for people to have children if they are able. It is a moral imperativegiven the perilous future we are facing.
I can remember having this conversation with a relative 25 years ago,we did the maths then, and realised what was going to happen,and we both said then,the best time in history .we had lived through already ,and things were going to get worse not better.
Until recently, I had never heard the term "maths." It's always been a singular term. "Math class," "do the math," et cetera. Is using the plural a British/Commonwealth thing?
@@Deridus math is a singular but we study the plural. Do you study physic or physics?
@@ajays9936 Stop making sense!
Even in my college classes, no one ever said "Do the maths." Math was treated as a singular the entire time. Heck, even typing the word, "maths" comes up with a red squigly line under it on UA-cam.
Society has evolved into a requirement that in order to build a home together and pay bills most people on lower incomes (who historically had the most children) need to both work..Just to survive. Putting off having children through necessity not choice. One wage used to be enough..now it's two wages. Falling birthrate is a direct casualty of this brave new world. It's not going to change because everything is monetised for profit maximisation and incomes are too low for many to contemplate starting a family.
1:19:42 "There is gonna be fewer and fewer people companies to hire" - if that would be the case then the real wages should be going higher. And the throuth is that wage growth is lower than inflation =real wage growth is negative. This is one of the example when the economy is shouting at you that there is abundance of workers / people in the world. I could continue with the housing market, but I think you get my point.
At 46:50 they're making the same mistake too. My great grandparents had a dosen children, then their kids COLLECTIVELY had less than a dozen. My great grandparents had a farm, my grandparents had gas stations. Loosing agriculture changes the economics of having children.
But companies won’t be able to grow as much because there will be less people to sell to.
@@susanarojo3906 That doesn't mean the the quality of life is going down. I see that as like an only child who inherit the family tree's wealth... wealth / GDP could stagnate while GDP per capita could go up.
My paternal grandparents had 7 children. My maternal grandparents also produced 7 children. My parents had 5 children. I had 2, my oldest brother had 0, my next brother had 3, my sister had 2 and my youngest had 0. My older daughter has no children and my younger has 2. I think we're typical.
When you constantly talk about the dangers of over population; it’s hard to suddenly switch to the dangerous of under population and have people take it seriously.
Malthusian beliefs in overpopulation have been around for centuries. They get disproven every generation.
So true. We've had it shoved down our throats for ages.
This talk was filled with contradictions and assumptions likened to "eat your cake and keep it too"
Sometime in the early 80s my wife and I read an economics/relationship article. It’s basic message was that most couples wanted three things.
1-financial security
2-a nice home
3-children
The kicker was that the article claimed that the majority of American couples could only manage to afford two of the three.
And now you can only manage one hahahaha
My mother was so excited to become a grandmother. It was something she always had imagined she would one day be. My brother never had children because he was never able to find a girlfriend. I got a later start at it but have successfully had 3 kids. My mom is a wonderful grandmother, and my kids have really given her a new and exciting adventure in her life... she has several friends around her age. All had children of their own (2 or more), but she is the only one with grandkids. Her friends all grieved for the grandchildren they will never have. They all expected to become grandparents, but each one had to come to terms with the reality that would not be part of their experience and all experienced depression around it. I feel so deeply for not only their children who wanted families but never made it work, and for their parents who will never get to have a sleepover baking cookies with their grandchildren.
Exhibit A in why we do not put expectations on ourselves and our loved ones like that and instead appreciate life for what we do have 🙏
If the worse life you can think of is "not having the same car your friends on instagram do," and that's why you think people are antinatalists, then you're extremely sheltered, and must have been born into a very lucky life with no major long term problems. When it comes to finances alone, people are struggling just to survive, they're not worried about fancy cars.
Chris this is a fantastic episode. Thank you for bringing Mr. Shaw on, and asking great questions.
Thank you so much Chris for this amazing podcast. You bring up a sensitive topic that is rarely addressed and bring the facts to the table:) Great job!!!
I know this is an old video, and I NEVER comment on anything but I gotta say something here. Maybe someone like me will se this comment and feel better or some "expert" who can do something about it will realize whats going on.
I am very disappointed about how finances as the problem are glazed right over. Your expert is telling me that my membership to the tennis club took priority over my want to have kids. I spent my younger years working 10-12 hour days in blue collar jobs and could barely afford to support myself. I am talking about something as simple as a flat tire could leave me homeless. No money to fix flat tire>no car miss work >miss work lose job>lose job cant pay rent, ect.
It took 20 years until I was stable enough to even think about being able to support a child. Believe me, I lived poor, cheap cars, cheap rent cheap food cheap clothes. This expert is saying I made bad choices on how I spent my money. I DIDN'T HAVE CHOICES.
I also didn't hear anything about the compounding effects of all the reasons you bring up. So there I was, a blue collar worker making pretty good money finally at 35+ years old. that's when the collage bias kicked in ect.
The only women that were available were, dare I say; badly damaged single mothers, drug addicts, forever party girls and a whole host of women that would have most likely ended up in disaster having a child with.
I am 6'4 and no superstar but I'm certainly not ugly. I was not too picky about a mate but by that age, it seemed that all the "good" ones were taken and all that was left was a group of women who were looking for wealthy move stars or so flawed to the point that having a stable relationship with them was impossible not to mention having kids.
I am now 50+ and I have a wonderful woman who is too old to have children. MY HEART BREAKS, when I see a picture of a little boy with a baseball bat resting on his shoulder on my bosses desk or in other places.
DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE PLIGHT OF YOUNG MEN. YOUNG MEN MATTER. And if I am not mistaken they are 50% of what it takes to make children. You start this talk by exploring women, women this and women that. And once you get to the fact of men being a provider, which is the bottom line what women are looking for, you guys literally just skip right over it like its not even a real issue. Tennis club member. YOU INSULT ME AND AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF EXPLOITED WORKERS!
This message will most likely be like a piss in the ocean, making no difference. Nobody cares about young men anymore.
A village that doesn't give its young men a place in it will burn it down just to feel its warmth.
I am too old to be burning shit down.
But now sit and talk with you experts and try to figure out why this whole society is going to shit.
No offense, I love you bro. Keep up the fight.
Bottom line for a mirad of reasons is that this world is not a good place to be born into. Humans have made it uninhabitable.
💔 as a cohort female, I HEAR YOU loud and clear. And I lived this pain also as a woman. I have no children because of financial restrictions.
When I listen to elites talk about the declining birth rates, I become irate. It's like they are only worried about cheap domestic labor and future consumers 😢
They have little understanding of the life circumstances we had been GIVEN!!
May God bless us both ❤💙
I spent decades at min wage in NC, it's pitiful. What I earned for 40yrs at work is a joke beyond humor. It was 2.85/hr when I began. It's just now at $7.25. Can anyone live on that....
I hear you. But it is possible. We made massive financial sacrifices are raising 4 young men. I understand the plight of younger men and I advocate for them. I hope my boys will also find a good wife's and have children for a hopeful future. The problem is still undoing the lies told to young women about their fertility.
Good comment, OP. It is amusing that a woman has replied here a few days ago saying that it is possible with sacrifices. She must have glossed over the part where the cost of a flat tyre was between you and the risk of total destitution. I hope you are on firmer ground now. Best of luck.
It's good to see more people talking about things like low birth rates and the challenges that come with them, but it really bothers me how so many seem to dismiss the importance of anti-aging science.
Honestly, it’s frustrating because I feel like it’s such a crucial area that could massively help civilization, yet it barely gets the credence it deserves.