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I do have to make a serious correction to make, Jesus would not be a hippie today. people of today are in general much more left-wing than people would have been in Christ's day. considering that jesus, god, does not change, Jesus would not be a hippie, instead he would be considered right wing. take a look at the sermon on the mount, Jesus doesn't make things easier for his followers, he makes things harder. while the Pharisees said that you should not commit adultery, Jesus says that you shouldn't even watch p***.
Since you see China as a major influence, have heard matt christman from chapo in assessment that the Chinese people will be in stage to create a system that will bring the rise to true communism?
A Chinese person once told me, he and many Chinese people view European history from medieval to early modern times like a European version of a warring states period that never ended with the Napoleon, Habsburgs, Charlemagne, Papacies and the like all being periodic European versions of Qin Shi Huang, that ultimately fail unlike in the east.
@Maximal My thoughts are that it falls apart under scrutiny (of course) but it makes for an interesting look at an eastern pop-history perceptions for how some spitballing Chinese layman might frame the west after hearing a half hour summary of events in Europe from prehistory to now.
The Bhois of Orissa maintained minor maritime trade links with China. This is noted from the Manchu language memorials and edicts depicting contacts under the reign of Qing dynasty in China, when the Qianlong Emperor received a gift from the Brahmin (Ch. Polomen 婆羅門, Ma. Bolomen) envoy of a ruler whose Manchu name was Birakišora han of Utg’ali (Ch. Wutegali bilaqishila han 烏特噶里畢拉奇碩拉汗), who is described as a ruler in Eastern India. Hence referring to Birakisore Deva I of Khurda (1736-1793) who styled himself as Gajapati, the ruler of Utkala. Many of the gosains entering Tibet from China passed through his territory when visiting the Jagannath temple at Puri.[43] The reign of Tipu Sultan in Mysore saw Chinese technology used for sugar production,[44] and sandalwood was exported to China.[45]
the qing, led by manchus, was very isolationist. the ming, led by han people, was somewhat isolationist but not really since many ports were still open- contact with the portuguese were frequent. people over-exaggerate when saying ming was completely isolationist. qing just look ming's policy to the extreme. the conquest of ming was a mistake
Hey, been to India? I've covered all the four most important sites in Buddha's life; Lumbini, Bodhgaya, Sarnath, Kushinagar. Consider this as a warm invitation, you must visit them all.
India was once a Buddhist majority country but in order to fight against rising violent Islam, Hinduism is needed because of military angle in it Now Buddhist value in this era reviewing again
@MR map did it not though? i feel like it’s easy to overlook southeast asia especially since it’s squished between arguably the two most prosperous civilizations in history.
(Pt. 1) I'm Chinese, and while this video is to a certain extent correct, there are a few errors that I have to point out (I am writing this as I watch the vid): 1. No mention of the Xia Dynasty, which in my opinion certainly existed. 2. The Shang did not create the modern Chinese theological system, the Zhou did. They changed it from a monotheistic religion worshipping 上帝 alone headed by the Shang King, to a system headed by the King of the Zhou as 天子 (Son of Heaven) worshipping 上帝 as well, but introducing the abstract concept of 天, or heaven, with 上帝 in charge of 天. Notably, when the power of the Zhou Dynasty waned, this made Chinese religion less structured, leading to China becoming a less dogmatic society than many of its contemporaries, leading to great religious diversity, the development of a large number of religious sects, the large scale acceptance of foreign religions, the deification of many "great men" (placing them in 天), and a history of religious tolerance and syncretism. I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝. 3. The Zhou WERE NOT TURKIC. The Zhou were a Chinese tribe living in the Guanzhong area, west of the Shang heartland in the Central Plains, and were certainly influenced to a certain extent by western nomadic tribes, but then they were almost certainly Chinese. The Zhou Dynasty, through the Rites of Zhou, created much of what is considered Chinese culture and philosophy as we know it today, and Shang culture, by comparison, is mostly unrecognisable. In addition, China already had chariots, likely through prior contact with the Tocharians, before the Zhou took over. 4. The Zhou did not create the classic Chinese feudal system, or 封建, they simply built upon the previous Shang administrative system. In addition, the Zhou split apart into a large number of warring fiefdoms because of a degrading and increasingly weakened central administration in the royal demesne of 鎬京, culminating in the sacking of the city by Western barbarians and the fracturing of the state into its local fiefdoms. 5. Confucianism never was a religion. Confucius himself repeatedly denied being a divine being (or prophet) and said to his followers that they should ask someone else for the mysteries of the afterlife. However, as stated earlier, the Chinese developed a tradition of deifying various "great men", and Confucius was himself deified to a certain extent. 6. There were two people who led the rebellion against the Qin Empire, 陳勝 and 吳廣, not one. 7. The Qin did not create Legalism, they adopted it from various Legalist scholars and philosophers that were sojourning around China at the time. The State of Han also adopted Legalism, for example. 8. Being "down to earth" and "reasonable" declined slightly after the late Southern Song Dynasty and the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream, after which the imperial exams during the Ming and Qing became a quagmire of abstract philosophical thought instead of focusing on government policy or even simply regarding practical solutions for actual problems. 9. China did create a broad metaphysical view of the world during the Song Dynasty in form of Neoconfucianism, which attempted to fuse Taoist and Buddhist metaphysical concepts with Confucian ethics in order to create a full philosophy. However, this was done very late, only 1000 years ago, and there never was one fully agreed upon school of Neoconfucianism (the Cheng-Shu School became the Orthodox school, however, this was never fully accepted and various opposing schools emerged throughout the Song, Ming and Qing Dynasties), hence why the Chinese are very superstitious. 10. Buddhism did not sell itself only amongst the peasants. Buddhism became popular in Chinese society during the Northern and Southern Dynasties period, which was one of the closest things to a Chinese dark age. This was a time when China was divided into two, a south ruled by a series of weak and short-lived empires controlled by the native Han Chinese and dominated by powerful aristocratic clans, and a north ruled by a mix of Han Chinese and nomadic barbarian warlord states, through which a powerful unified empire would sometimes emerge. Buddhism was adopted by the aristocrats and common people alike during this difficult time, in fact, one of China's longest-ruling emperors, Emperor Wu of the Southern Liang, repeatedly tried to abandon his duties as Emperor to become a Buddhist monk.
I kind of tried to google on zhou nomads and found nothing. It's interesting why he called them turkic or nomads. I hope, Whatifalthist will answer your comment
Thanks for the clarification. I suspect Whatifalthist neglected the Xia due to his seemingly more limited knowledge of earlier dynasties, so he didn't feel confident enough to dispute the conflicting experts. Although not natively Chinese nor fluent, I have spent a great deal of time at my university on the search for decent translations, summaries, and reviews of records from the earlier periods of Chinese history and they are much harder to get ahold of. It's already more limited due to the time gap between now and then, but it gets exacerbated in translated texts. Not to excuse his errors, but that may be the reason why there are all those mixups during the Shang and Zhou, I could be wrong though. Thanks for the information, it's greatly appreciated! Also to what extent do you think Confucius's ideas were accurately followed? Did the Song and Ming actually use his ideas, or just appropriate them? My impression was that the Han dynasty actually followed many of the doctrines but I could be wrong so I was curious.
(Pt. 2) 11. It is true that there have been relatively few wars of religion or campaigns of religious persecution in China, but when they did occur, they were extremely bloody and horrendous. Examples include the Yellow Turban Rebellion (Taoist), Tang Wuzong's great persecution (anti-Buddhist), the White Lotus Rebellion (Manichaean), the Taiping Rebellion ("Christian"), etc. However, the large death toll from these various wars and persecutions may have had more to do with the enormity of China's population and Confucianism's social cohesion, creating massive cohesion within both the followers and opponents of these religious sects. 12. The Han did not expand China to its largest extent, the Tang did. The Tang Dynasty, which was the last major unified dynasty to truly value the military and treat the military as a respectable and prestigious institution, conquered west all the way to the Aral Sea and Persia, east to all of Korea (for two years until Silla rebelled), and north, making Lake Baikal a lake completely surrounded by Chinese territory (at least, on paper). The Tang destroyed the Turkic Khaganates, and there were even plans to conquer Persia from the Ummayads and restore the Sasanian Dynasty (which fled to the Tang after the Muslim conquest) there as a protectorate, although this was later scrapped. 13. One reason why Tang China was so unique, successful, and dynamic was that it was perhaps the only dynasty that had a mixed ruling class, instead of having a purely bureaucratic government. Between the Three Kingdoms Period and the Tang Dynasty, the constant war and chaos meant that the aristocracy, and later the military, had supremacy, but then the creation of the imperial examination system during the Sui allowed the creation of a bureaucratic class that shared power with the military during the Tang. However, it was always unstable, as the power of the military, in addition to the chaotic Ottoman-esque succession crises every time a Tang Emperor died, meant that there were constant coups by the military, and this system started to break down after the An Lushan rebellion, after which regional militaries started to gain increasing amounts of regional power over the central government, which in turn caused warlordism, the collapse of the Tang, and the destruction of the bureaucracy. Thus, after the formation of the Song Dynasty, the imperial examination system was reintroduced with renewed vigour, while the military aristocracy faded into nonexistence, after which the military was suppressed, which created a monolithic bureaucratic ruling class. Subsequent attempts to reestablish a military ruling class in China, like the Song Dynasty during the wars against the Jurchens, the rule of the Yongle Emperor during the Ming, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, and the warlordism of the 1920s, also failed to achieve long-term stability and fell apart, or were crushed by the bureaucrats. 14. The Chinese bureaucracy only became conservative and unimaginative from the Ming Dynasty onwards. The Song Dynasty, which was the peak of Chinese intellectual thought, had imperial examinations which included mathematics and poetry and produced geniuses like Ouyang Xiu, Shen Kuo, Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, Su Shi, etc, who would often have a bureaucratic day job and a side job, and as a result, polymaths like Shen Kuo emerged, and a technological golden age also occurred during the Song partially for this reason. However, as mentioned earlier, after the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream and Zhu Xi's interpretation of Confucianism becoming the material for imperial exams, in addition to the creation of the Eight-Legged exam by Wang Anshi, which became the exam's structure starting from the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese bureaucracy became conservative and unimaginative. 15. Other social groups were not constantly oppressed. The reason for the Song Dynasty's dynamism was because it was the least domineering of the dynasties, which meant it was the only dynasty to not oppress the towns and merchants in any meaningful way, allowing for the development of a massive and very strong urban commercial sector. This, in addition to the introduction of rice from Champa and the development of new ploughs starting an agricultural revolution, allowed the population to explode, starting an economic revolution in turn, making the Song dynasty the richest country on Earth by GDP per capita at the time, and the richest Chinese dynasty ever. As for the military, I already explained the success of the Tang earlier in that regard. Then again, the bureaucrats were still the dominant social class throughout these eras. 16. The military was only starved starting from the Song Dynasty onwards. Previous conquests of parts of China by nomads (as China was never fully conquered by nomads before the Mongols) were caused by horrific civil wars in China, which severely weakened the state and allowed for an easy invasion by the barbarians. The oppression of the military by the Song was an overreaction to the fracturing and warlordism of China post-Tang, but even so, the Khitans never conquered south of Tianjin, the Jurchens were stopped at the Huai River, and the Mongols only conquered China after 45 years of constant bloody war. As for the Manchu conquest of China, that was the result of a series of massive peasant rebellions during the Little Ice Age of the late Ming, which ended up overthrowing the Ming Dynasty (in northern China, at least) and severely weakening China as a whole. 17. China was only fully conquered by nomads/barbarians 2.5 times. The 0.5th time was by the Sui, which was an ethnic Chinese polity, but the Sui Dynasty was a successor state of the Northern Wei, which was ruled by the Xianbei Barbarians. The 1.5th time was by the Mongol Yuan, and the 2.5th time was by the Manchu Qing. 18. (15:36) Putting a picture of the Tang Dynasty while mentioning alliances with other nomadic peoples is not entirely accurate. The Tang, as mentioned earlier, destroyed the Turkic Khaganates and conquered the steppe, however, it lost control of present-day Mongolia when Wu Zetian took power, during which a descendent of the Ashina Dynasty, which ruled the Turkic Khaganates, created a second Turkic Khaganate. After this, the Tang indeed had to use alliances with other nomads to control the northern nomads. The Han also had to use alliances and concessions with the Xiongnu before that proved untenable and Han Wudi started his destruction of the Xiongnu. 19. The Dark Age of Barbarian Invasions, which included the aforementioned Northern and Southern Dynasties period, was from between the early-4th to late 6th centuries, not 350-700 AD, and they never fully conquered China. In addition, as mentioned earlier, I also do not consider the Zhou to be nomadic barbarians. The Khitan Liao and Jurchen Jin also never fully conquered China. 20. The barbarian descendants did establish themselves as nobles in China, but most nobles in China around the time of the Tang and Sui were still Chinese. Although a disproportionate amount of nobles from northern China were barbarian descendants, and northern Han Chinese nobles did frequently intermarry with the barbarian descended nobles, Northern Chinese nobles as a whole were still mostly Han Chinese, while Southern Chinese nobles were fully Han Chinese (I am writing this as a descendant of Southern Chinese nobles who lived in Northern China during this era). However, the nobles of barbarian descent Sinicised by the time of the Sui and based their identity on being Chinese and being part of the Chinese nobility, alongside their fellow nobles of Han Chinese descent.
Wow you do know Chinese history. I don’t know even as much as the video creator but it does seem like most of Chinese traditions has been lost (for better or worse) after CCP took over from living there over ten years recently.
>I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝. I find this fascinating as a Christian from Europe, I would love to read more into how Christianity is adapted in non-European cultures. It's alike a whole different theological/philosophical world waiting to be discovered. I desperately dream to move to China for some time and properly dive into the culture. Thank you for your comment :)
8:27 The Qin didn't form Legalism, they adopted it. During the Spring and Autumn Period, Legalism was just one of the Hundred Schools of Thought that were spread all around China, competiting for supremacy. Confucianism and Mohism are the other two more well known ideologies created during that era. 27:50 the Taiping Rebellion wasn't a Christian Rebellion nor supported/influenced by the Americans since they were also having their civil war, the Taiping Rebellion was a Hakka/Han Rebellion that misinterpreted the Bible and didn't have any support of the West so much that the West helped the Qing defeat them.
the west supported qing because they rather have a weak state (qing dynasty) than a potentially strong state (heavenly dynasty). not entirely incorrect to call taiping a "christian rebellion"
Strongly agree with the second part. That is revolt against their Qing conqueror (foreign occupation) by mixing Jesus with local belief. The local belief is the major factor why a huge army can be raised. Jesus alone cannot appeal to many average men except the inner core of Taiping.
Very happy about the explosion in Chinese content. Its the most alien civilization on our planet from a western perspective. Id like to highlight as others have, the 1:42 glitch
Which is honestly a testament to China's poor Softpower influence compared to say their East Asian neighbors Japan and SK - as culturally in a social visiting/business context, I found Chinese folks were much more culturally easier to understand and get along with than in Japan/SK in terms of manners, body language, personality, humor, schedules etc (from a social perspective). We think we know more about Japan because of media but the average Chinese persons personality/outlook is much closer aligned with someone from the US . In fact, Japanese media has done *more* for Chinese history and media than China itself (Through Anime/Video Games).
@@KingR3aper like Dynasty Warriors? I'm sure there are also great Chinese media for instance I think their music is better, the games are on par and the animation is catching up
King Reap3r I completely agree with you. This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot for a long time. Just the fact that people know about quintessential Chinese culture elements, such as, for example, Kanji, Go or Koto, through the Japanese versions and the Japanese names of three elements goes on to show how much Chinese culture has been exported more through Japan than through China itself. And for the topic in question, I disagree with OP. If anything, I think East Asian culture is relatively familiar to Western culture, in comparison to, say, Indian culture. It might be a bias because I've been immersed in East Asia culture all my life but there'd have to be a very good argument to convince me of that.
@@GL-iv4rw There may be great Chinese Media, but Japan and South Korea have a much easier time accessing the world. While it might be economically Capitalist, China is still very much Communist in the sense that it has a government that tries to take the lead on culture and meddle. Countries like that tend to have pretty low amounts of soft power - think of the Soviet Union. Heck you could make a strong argument that tiny Hong Kong historically had more of an impact on current world culture than all of mainland China.
@@Hoopsnake They mostly use pop culture and modern mass consumerism as "soft power". China don't do that and they usually portray authentic traditional culture (ofc that does not mean being outdated, low-tech or out of touch with modern reality). It's why Chinese key tourist spots are historical sites/Beijing opera/scenic spots etc while Japanese/Korean ones are shopping areas/bars/restaurants etc. Now it's understandable if you like the latter and not the former
Calling Zhou “Turks” is the most cursed thing I’ve ever heard. No. The Zhou dynasty wasn’t Turkic. I know you are a Turkophile but this is just a new level.
Whatifalhist might be a literal Turk secret agent or something at this point. That or he has some sexual fetish for this culture. In a previous video of his he predicted that in the near future there will be a new Turk empire spanning from Central Europe to Africa and Central Asia conquering not one not two but 35 nations. This guy has lost me with the Turk propaganda.
As a "slow oldie" I must say this was one of your best videos - not too fast, mostly clear diction and a healthy dose of respectful and, dare I say humble, commentary. Keep up the good work!
I took an East Asian cultures class in college and it surprised me that Confucianism was not really a religion, but more of a moral framework that could probably be plopped down and used in any society. What we usually refer to Confucianism today seems to just be the Ancient Chinese religion (ancestor worship) preserved to the modern day.
The religion you referring to is called Taoism. I remember high school history book called Confucianism a religion probably because people who wrote it thinks kids are dumb and they couldn’t understand Confucian philosophy or what it really is.
“The earth is black in front of the cliff, and no orchids grow. Creepers crawl in the brown mud by the path. Where did the birds of yesterday fly? To what other mountain did the animals go? Leopards and pythons dislike this ruined spot; Cranes and snakes avoid the desolation. My criminal thoughts of those days past Brought on the disaster of today.” ― Wu Cheng'en,
The fact that Chinese civil wars tend to be the most deadly events in history actually speaks for the strength of Chinese states in the past. The nation can rise up from ashes of the previous dynasty so quickly that the land reaches maximum population capacity in a century or two. The nation gets overpopulated so often that natural disasters tend to lead to massive famines followed by very deadly civil wars. By comparison Europe has often failed to reach the full potential of population capacity due to constant warring and plague. So it's not that European monarchs are less tyrannical or people less brutal, they just rarely each the level of overpopulation that can cause massive scale deaths. In other words, Chinese empires have a history of very rapid development following collapse of the previous government, hence their ability to 'fight on the Moon'. Their 21st Century economic miracle is not alien concept to them. But in the end their upper limit is dictated by geography. In the past it's farm yields and in the case of CCP China this limit is oil production and oceanic control. The Belt and Road and SCS military bases are exactly addressing these problems, but haven't worked well yet.
That's why China has the most potential to be the most powerful empire the world has ever known. It's just foreign intervention & enemies abroad so far that have prevented china from rising to it's full peak potential. Though in 2022 China is rapidly taking Americas place , probably by 2030 they'll be #1
It's actually catastrophic. The only thing uniting China is the size of the country. It's demographics are collapsing, and Western and other East Asian businesses are leaving China in droves, sucking away production, investment and employment. Tens of millions of Chinese are now dying from unchecked Covid infection. The soils of China are overpolluted with similar problems with the streams, lakes and ground water. China may now have the most polluted agricultural lands on Earth. This is a double punch if I ever saw one historically. Furthermore, the CCP have largely brought this state of affairs upon the Chinese and themselves. I doubt that the CCP can survive much longer under these horrendous circumstances,
How exactly did it endure those events? Each event represents a pretty major continuity break for governance and philosophy? Endure in that basically the same people and peasantry persisted throughout all that awfulness? If that's the argument all polities "endure" everything and it's not amazing. Like India, its current MACRO unification of what was once many states, is a totally new concept.
or we can say, Mongols Manchurians and Japaneses fail to build an universal empirr which last, once they lost their empire,it is impossible to rebuildq again, but China did it,
Just because they have so many people. If they had a smaller population they would most likely end up like their counterparts in Siberia, pushed out and replaced by external powers.
During Mao’s era, from 1949 to 1976, China gained 300 millions inhabitants, put an end to endemic famines, built an industrial base, improved literacy. Compare this to what China was when Mao was born in 1893.
10:03 Spring festival Season Taboos "No killing (including animals): it brings misfortune" But you can kill your neighbor right after spring festival, no misfortune at all!
Governments will *always* seek to expand their control - it's inherent, as well expect an apex predator to stop killing things! The best we can do is keep down, as much as possible, their _ability_ to expand their control. A free-enterprise system is the best we've yet discovered ... a society in which there is constant technological change tends to make real dominating control *extremely* difficult! This is why the CCP tries to make sure any new tech is *first* used for _it's_ purposes!
Small quibble other commentators seem to have missed: Buddhism arrived in China by the Han dynasty, not the Tang. However, under the Tang dynasty Buddhism underwent radical changes in Chinese culture that make it the form Chinese Buddhism is today.
8:20 "The Qin were the Prussians of Ancient world" This is accurate since the Qin Army has the same color as the Prussians..their Soldier's are same in Black color and their Banner were in color Black mostly
As a Christian myself I take great issue with the claim that "Jesus would be a hippie" today. That is not true at all. Jesus defended property rights, did not condemn military but rather commanded them to be men of integrity, encouraged his own disciples to sell their pouches to purchase swords, stood up for the right to defend yourself and did not preach poverty gospel nor prosperity gospel. He even forcibly removed merchants and sellers from the Temple with a handmade whip in sheer anger for their disrespect of God's house. To say He was a hippie in disposition is way off.
One of the main drivers of the individualism in the West was the Catholic Church, that discouraged close (cousin) marriages and gradually broke big familial clans. Exceptions were made for some of the noble houses. This, combined with the much more difficult geography in Europe, caused the historical evolution between the two ends of the Eurasian landmass to develop very different social and political cultures.
The Fall of Civilizations Podcast did a great job explaining how well-mobilized the Han could be, getting the society to match the Huns in horses under a single Emperor.
This is the first time I've ever heard someone call the Zhou Turkic. The Zhou people were distinct from those of the Shang, but they were a highly-related Sinitic group, certainly not a Turkic one.
I know western China is turkic but there seems to be research saying those people came from the east? However this also seems to indicate the transition happened hundreds of years before the Zhou period. Perhaps thats his confusion. "The origins of the Turkic peoples has been a topic of much discussion.[35] Recent linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest Turkic peoples descended from agricultural communities in Northeastern China and wider Northeast Asia, who moved westwards into Mongolia in the late 3rd millennium BC, where they adopted a pastoral lifestyle."
there's been a shift the past few years saying the Shang/Zhou were not "Chinese" but Turkic/Xianbei whatever, and they claim that "the Chinese" never existed but were all "northern peoples", it's all revisionist history based on Turkic people being from NE China / Mongolia area, which was never part of Chinese civilization (Yellow River valley)
Most important thing throughout Chinese history is unity,maintain stable. Every time when the central government collapse then civil war happens,it will last for hundred years and lost 50%-80% of its population. Unity is the supreme priority in China,understanding it is the basis to understand China.
The Ming are loved for their great selection of emperors. You have woodworkers, polo players, actors, shamans and sometimes even general and good leaders!
About Daoism: I think its focus switched from spirituality to rituals as it become more popular. A change that many people (including me) consider being negative.
Well, I am from Balkans and Daoist energy exercises allowed me to rake charge of my emotions and psychological well being, also to last as long as I want during sex. So I am basically on spiritual mode of it as it seems.
Just a comment on the screen where you showed "Ying" and Yang": First, it is "Yin" and not "Ying". Also, Yin is the female / darker side, while Yang is the male / brighter side. Most of the rest of your analysis seems pretty interesting and factual, but you did mix those two concepts up (around 7:50 in)
The translations for Chinese are extremely imprecise, between Peking, Peiping, Beijing all describing the same city or Zhao, Chao, Cao, Cho all being the same
@@WhatifAltHist if it helps, there are I beehive two main ways to write Chinese with English, you either use official pinyin (I use this) or you use a different way (I have no idea how it works, apparently there’s a whole other system) that many historians use. That’s how you get differences in translation. Beijing is the pinyin way, while Peking is the other way. Peiping was the previous name for Beijing used in the first half of the 20th century. With thousands of years of history, these cities switch names a lot of times
@@henrytsang5200 Honestly it sounds like "Peking" was actually a variant of "Peiping" because we've a historical event called I think "15 days at Peking" around the turn of the century which then further adds to the confusion.
@@henrytsang5200 Historians tend to use the other transliteration because that's what all the histories use. Hanyu pinyin is specifically a CCP project of the 50s; the most common older system was the Wade-Giles system created a century earlier. Worth pointing out that pinyin isn't used because it's 'better,' it's used because the CCP says it's used, and because the CCP has weight to throw around, it was adopted by ISO and the UN. The RoC has toyed with making it official, too, but large parts of the country were recalcitrant, seeing it as CCP cultural imperialism.
I have to say, my dude, your understanding of Buddhism is profoundly inaccurate - or should I say your understanding of what the Buddha’s damma was. It was not nihilistic, was not atheistic, believed in demons, and the Buddha himself set up the Buddhist “church”. Sorry dude, but what you said is just plain utterly incorrect.
@@evolvedape2161 The Buddha was not atheist in the sense that he didn't believe in god, but rather than god's existence was irrelevant to the cycle of life and rebirth.
This UA-cam is basically a closed loop of errors and nonsense. I found it funny when he said that Chinese culture is conservative. Not to mention the Qing Dynasty, even today in the 21st century, men and women in the Middle East cannot sit in the same car, and Malaysia and Indonesia will still beat to death adulterers and homosexuals. The fact is that the more powerful a country is, the more likely it is to accept foreign cultures. When a government is weak internationally, its culture will naturally become conservative. This is what happens to any country. He said that China is totalitarian, which I find even funnier. No matter how you spread out the world map, as long as it is not those more than 30 developed countries, which other countries have people with a much higher living standard than the Chinese? Don't listen to the Communist Party's propaganda, China is not a paradise. But don’t listen to what the Western media says about China being a hell. How good China is only depends on who you compare it with. If I had the opportunity to be born in Europe and the United States, I would never be Chinese. But if I had been born in India, I would have started to believe in the Communist Party.
The point you made about Chinese Buddhism being basically the opposite of what Buddha taught, while also noting that historically most forms of Christianity are basically the opposite of what Jesus taught is pretty fascinating. I think it's interesting that in recent decades, a lot of Westerners express interest in Buddhism, members of my own family and friend group included, while shunning Christianity for all it's problematic manifestations in history, society and culture. This always confused me, because when I think of Christianity, I focus primarily on Jesus and his teachings, but to most Westerners, it is difficult for them to divorce Christianity from its cultural and historical contexts, and so they don't just think about Jesus when they hear "Christianity," but also about the Crusades, colonialism, residential schools, abuse scandals, etc. When they hear "Buddhism" on the other hand, because they are not immersed in the cultural and historical contexts of how Buddhism manifests in Chinese or other societies, they have an idealized image of what Buddhism is based solely on what the Buddha taught, and not how Buddhism has been expressed in cultures and societies throughout history. It's kind of ironic, but also fascinating and makes a lot of sense, that oftentimes the people who are most "puritanical" about following the original teachings of Buddha without cultural and religious syncretism with folk religions and superstition, are Western converts to Buddhism. Likewise, I would argue that the Christian community which does the best job at emulating Christ's example in the modern world is the Chinese church, perhaps for similar reasons--because they don't carry the weight of historical and cultural baggage as "historically Christian" cultures in other parts of the world. The underground Chinese church is known for being a very grass-roots, egalitarian movement, with more female leaders in the movement than men, and are strictly opposed to mixing their faith with politics. There is a quote from a Punjabi Christian missionary named Sadhu Sundar Singh which I think perfectly captures this: "While sitting on the bank of a river one day, I picked up a solid round stone from the water and broke it open. It was perfectly dry in spite of the fact that it had been immersed in water for centuries. The same is true of many people in the Western world. For centuries they have been surrounded by Christianity; they live immersed in the waters of its benefits. And yet it has not penetrated their hearts; they do not love it. The fault is not with Christianity, but in men's hearts, which have been hardened by materialism and intellectualism."
I'm going to disagree with you heavily on the Christianity thing, especially in the United States. There are two types of incorrect christianity, if you will, in the west. The first one is the prosperity wealth preachers. Those are obviously not going by the teachings of Christ. The other side is on the opposite side, the progressive christians, who refuse to denounce any form of sin and stray from actual biblical theology as far as possible. Both of these groups disregard the Bible and Jesus's teachings as well as the teachings of Christ through the apostles. However, both of these forms of Christianity are laughed at and shamed by the majority of Christendom. The idea of the Southern Baptist is much closer to the teaching of Jesus than the Joel osteen crowd, and they follow the teachings of Christ much more than Kenneth Copeland. These forms of Christianity are not regarded as really Christian, even while protestants Catholics and orthodox can all get along with one another, the prosperity gospel and progressives are both in their own camp and regarded as oddities. Perhaps you're speaking on the people who are only considered culturally Christian, "easter Christians", but for any active Christian, we view Christianity as it is, not through modern contexts
@@SeanWinters I actually think you’ve proven OP point that lots of so called ‘christians’ today lack belief in the core tenets of the faith ie the teachings of Jesus. They instead choose to superimpose their own ideologies onto “their” Christianity as opposed to the other way round of their religion affecting their views on other matters. The examples you mentioned of Christian’s that push capitalistic materialism or progressive social values are in fact people who have been so ensconced in the veil of a Christian culture that they do not actually understand it or appreciate it and thus choose to arbitrarily appoint their faith onto whatever other beliefs they have regarding politics, economics, society etc. Whereas a ‘foreign’ religion such as Buddhism has never had a cultural grip on westerners and defined how they see the world like it has in many parts of Asia so the vast majority of westerners can only be outsiders looking in on Buddhism looking to its authority figures (namely Gautama aka the ‘Buddha’ himself) to understand something they’ve never encountered properly. Likewise the reverse exists for any easterner looking at Christianity and looking to its spiritual guider Jesus to understand it whereas their own experience of Buddhism is more ephemeral and human in the same way Christianity is to westerners. People in Asia also impose their own ideology onto Buddhism in the same way people in Europe or NA do with Christianity
Yes I mean cultural Christians. I would argue that most people (at least in Western countries) who call themselves Christian are not actually Christians. For example, around 60-70% of people in Western Europe identify as Christians, and yet according to Pew Research only 14% of Swedes, 27% of French, 28% of Germans, and 29% of Brits actually believe in the Christian God. Yet those countries are still see themselves as Christian countries and are thought of as Christian countries by the rest of the world, even if more people in somewhere like China believe in the Christian God and actually go to church on a regular basis.
Also, even if the majority of Christendom rejects concepts such as progressive theology or prosperity gospel, I would still argue that historically the majority of Christendom has also acted in an un-Christlike manner. For instance the church tying itself to the state--Catholicism and Orthodoxy, Anglicanism and Lutheranism, for example. This was rejected to an extent in America, but even then many American Christians (whether right or left) put their politics above their faith. I would argue that the schisms (whether between the Roman and Persian, Catholic and Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches) were primarily political in nature, with theological aspects as a secondary factor, and that this is the same case with many churches today (for example schisms between the church in Moscow and Constantinople over Ukraine, or the Methodist Church over homosexuality).
@@tianming4964 As a protestant, I must agree there are things wrong with catholicism, but I'm unsure what you mean by "tying itself to the state". Do you mean they fail because they allow the government to tell them how to act, or is it the mere connection of these things? I will also say that, no Christian can truly act Christlike. Being Christian means to be a hypocrite. We are like long jumpers, who can never reach the bar. Just because some people's bars are on the floor(no morals this no moral failings) doesn't mean they jump higher than us. I'm more versed in the reformation, which absolutely started on a theological level(with the most notable exception of the Anglican church), and the separation was later turned "political" with the 30 years war. Although after that war, most of Europe agreed fighting over religion was not such a Christ like thing to do.
like all of his pronouncements of the abolition of slavery this is mostly hyperbole. Slavery still existed in China, just like it still existed in Europe after Christianity , just like it still existed in the Iranian Plateau after the Achaemendids, just like it still existed after the British abolished slavery in the 19th century
Most areas with huge populations abolished slavery on their own. Slavery only makes sense with low populations, like in the Americas, where labour is so expensive you have to artificially force the price down via slavery. Either that, or you’re a Muslim empire.
As Westerners, we look for analogues in other civilizations for the things in our own civilization. The problem is many of those analogues don't exist in China. This becomes even more pronounced with other civilizations. So the tendency is to project our ideas on to things in other civilizations that don't fit or don't exist. It's the comparative historian's dilemma.
My crazy thought about the origins of the divergence between China and the other civilizations is that China didn't have the equivalent of the hard reset of the Bronze age collapse of the ancient near east (including Mycenae) which is the progenitor of both Western and Islamic civilizations. Near eastern rulers lost much of their divine status in the collapse and had never recovered it. Their legitimacy was hence on based on the suppport of the priesthood or pure military force. China looks like a what if ancient Egypt could continue as it was before the collapse for another 2000 years including surviving into the axial age and then unify the western eurasia civilization zones. Something like the concervative mandarin bureaucracy looks like a possible logical contiuation of Egyptian scribal class. After the collapse new simplified writing systems allowed many to bypass the scribes with much higher overall literacy. Religion had three components during the bronze age: Folk belief, Pantheon and Divine kingship (think of the Pharaos). In the west divine kingship was weakened and the priesthood gained power to make the pantheon supreme and the philosophies became pure rationalism or theism with religion evolving into current missionary monotheism. In China there was no collapse and this allowed the pantheon to atrophy with it's priesthhod leaving kind of emperor worship mixed with folk religion and philosophy taking a different route.
Only issue is that Islamic was fundamentally derived from Roman civilization and the influences of the others by the bronze age collapse can barely be felt
@@buddermonger2000 Regarding other, Rome is derived from earlier iron age civilizations, especially ancient Greece with additional Phoenician influence, both those were transformed by the collapse. India had similar event with the collapse of Indus valley civilization. The Incas on the other side had many collectivist "Chinese" features including true emperor worship and centrally planned economy. They resembled the ancient Bronze age civilizations in many respects
The divergence between China and the other civilizations is other major ancient civilization is destroyed by "barbarian" while in China "barbarian" Sinicized. If Rome have more population than Germanic tribes they probally still around.
China never collapsed because the culture was always there, even when it was controlled by the Mongols/Manchu, they assimilated into Chinese society because that was the only way, this never happened in the West, China has always absorbed other peoples, not the other way around, I think that's the reason why it succeeded but many didn't
Overall it's quite an accurate depiction of Chinese history and political philosophies, kudos to the hard work of whatifalthist channel! Being someone who has studied both Chinese and Western history intensively out of personal curiosity, I'd like to elaborate on a few key understandings. 1. Why the Southern Song dynasty composed poetry instead of waging war to recover Northern China. I see a parallel in the Byzantine empire which did not make major efforts to recover lost territory in its later years. It instead focused on theological orthodoxy. Even though eventually the Byzantines lost their empire, their orthodox theology caused a large swath of countries to stubbornly adhere to that creed to this day and form a major counterweight to Western ideology. Same applies here - without adequate resources and logistical advantages the Southern Song knew they would not have the upper hand in recovering lost territory. However their focus on orthodox Confucian ideology and culture largely resulted in Chinese identity being maintained during the Mongol Empire's rule, and assimilation of the Manchus into the Chinese sphere. With the military prowess of the Manchus China has been able to hold onto Xinjiang, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia to this day. 2. Chinese government's cleverness was the reason for massive economic growth and gain of state power on the world stage in recent decades. Cleverness cannot be the main reason to explain a massive development like this. The main reason is strategic interplay of world powers - a perfect analogy is Russia: in the 19th century France needed Russia to counter UK so it gave massive loans and technological help to the Russian Empire. By the end of the century UK and America also needed Russia to counter Germany so they also massively helped Russia and the Soviet Union to develop into a major world power. Back in the 18th century nobody thought Russia was going to become one of two superpowers of the world in the 20th century. Along a similar reasoning, America and the West needed China to counter the Soviet Union in the 20th century, therefore helped foster the rapid growth of China. In a globalized world, China's size and its ability to unite itself efficiently makes it a useful counter weight to any major world power. Obviously there are probably minor inaccuracies (for example what ethnic group ruled China in the Zhou dynasty etc.) but there is currently debate about the ethnic origins of ancient China due to new DNA research. The orthodox Chinese view of ethnic or racial purity is artificial and not worth discussing.
Just to make it clear, the Song elite didn't just write poems lamenting the loss of Northern China, they also tried to retake it by force, three separate times. The first time was Yue Fei's counteroffensive during the first Jurchen invasion of the Song. Meanwhile, the poets who wrote those poems, like Lu You and Xin Qiji, were some of China's most hawkish politicians, and had a major effect on Song policy towards northern reconquest. They nearly succeeded after a second Jurchen invasion, which went disastrously, and the naval Battles of Tangdao and Caishi, which paved the way for a reconquest of the North, but the invasion lost momentum and the Song and Jin made peace in 1164 in the Peace of Longxing, reducing their annual tributary payments, but not gaining any land. There was a second attempt to retake the North by the Song, who invaded the Jurchen Jin in 1206 after a hawkish faction, led by Chancellor Han Tuozhou, who incidentally was helped to power by Lu You and Xin Qiji, gained power in court and hoped that the Jin had succumbed to decadence like the Liao. The invasion was a complete disaster, and in the aftermath, the Song was forced to increase their annual tribute to the Jin in the Peace of Jiading. The point is, that the Song did actively attempt to retake the North.
@@Thecognoscenti_1 yes they tried to fight but they also negotiated peace several times. It's prudent to do so when you don't have the winning hand. Also the Song court was fearful of generals getting too powerful, much like the late Manchu court would rather make peace with western powers than to let ethnic Han generals get too powerful. Therefore it's not wrong to say the southern Song focused on culture more than recovering territory. And I argue that building cultural strength is the right thing to do when you aren't in a position to win militarily.
@@xxxyyy9361 credit of China's fast development in the last 30 years should be given to both external and internal reasons. External geopolitical opportunity is the biggest reason as I stated with America needing China to counter the Soviet Union, and Western capitalism needing lots of cheap labor to produce bigger profits for capital. The internal reasons should also be given credit: chiefly the tradition of national unity and emphasis on education in Chinese culture, and the ability of the communist government to maintain social cohesion while softening raw capitalism's negative impacts at a low financial cost (contrasting with the experience of Russia and Latin America where domination of oligarchy occurred and vitality of capitalism is lost). Another set of external/internal contributors worth mentioning are the massive help by overseas Chinese who have continued and revived Song and Yuan China's merchantilist traditions despite coastal trading bans by the Ming and Qing dynasties; and the Soviet help with foundation of heavy industry in the 1950s.
True. They had advanced industries and controlled china’s ginger and cloth dye supply. A significant amount of china’s silver imported from spain were in turn exported to the manchus.
they weren't nomadic, yes. but, they weren't entirely civilized either since they were at least somewhat nomadic in practice based on their horde system. they had very similar traditions to the mongols, such as focus on cavalry, hunting as a military practice, importing slaves after war, and having a khan (until they "switched"). the manchu soldiers didn't really have much a place to be other than living next to military posts. i doubt manchuria was urban back then
Accurate,I can say as a Chinese. Very impressively accurate actually. This can be,and pretty much is the textbook. Keep up the good work, I have high expectations for you.
I think there is a reasonable chance to seeing an East and West Russia form along the Urals. East Russia as a Chinese puppet state/nuclear enabled paria state similar to North Korea, and West Russia as the majority of the population in a democratic form supported by uprising, Ukrainian/NATO support, and EU patronage. If you start seeing unrest in the West, it isn't a hard sell to imagine Russian leaders fleeing east (they're already in the Urals) and the Chinese stepping in in the east to protect economic assets (oil and gas wells), prevent unrest on the boarder, and of course avoid a western aligned country to thier North. You might also see a few fallout states, Tartarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan form, and Kazakhstan may change its boarders a little bit by short term stabilization operations on its boarder and support to cities like Orenburg, which lead to long term gains to keep a balance between the two Russias.
Here in russia we are certain of our victoty. After the war we will rebuild ukraine and bring cheap gas there. Then we will controll over a ⅓ of all global food supply and a big% of fertilizer production. In the past month inflation in russia has stopped and for a week we have even expirienced deflation. I think recently whatifalthist in part fell victim to western media shitting out ukrainian propaganda constantly.
Very informative and excellent video. I minored in East Asian Buddhist art history in college and you explained very well the differences between Indian Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism (which of course had long been separated from its original birthplace). There's actually a very interesting book we read in one class called "The Scientific Buddha." It talks about how Westerners discovered Buddhism via Indian relics. They didn't see the mysticism or rituals of those practicing Buddhism in East Asia (or anywhere else) - they encountered texts in a country that hadn't actively practiced the religion in centuries. This led to a Western understanding of Buddhism as a "scientific" or "philosophical" worldview, a misunderstanding still maintained in our culture today. This disconnect was born out of European distaste for non-Christian religious practices. And like you said, East Asian Buddhism (primarily Mahayana) was an amalgamation of local folk religion, Buddhist deities, and everything picked up along the way. It's also worth mentioning that high level monks were the ones reading sutras, not the average person in medieval China. Like you said, the superstitious and mystical inclinations of that society were added, and the sutras didn't matter as much and that was OK. Hopefully that makes sense LOL Anyway, great video, if anyone is interested in the introduction of Buddhism to the West you should check out that book! There's so much to learn and I by no means am an expert, just wanted to share my thoughts on one little tidbit :-)
To further what you're saying, Buddhism is an extremely versatile religion that allows prior religious practices to continue, at least amongst the non-monks. I know a devout Buddhist who will also make offerings at Hindu temples, for eg. (He says there are also Buddhist temples to these Hindu deities but whether the temple of operated by Buddhists or Hindus hardly matters to him). Perhaps the original Buddha conceived of non-monks in an ideal Buddhist society continuing along as Hindus without much change
Great and intellectual comment but I must add some things to it that buddhism is wrongly translated by europians from Original Indian sources which provides a different view of it.
You gotta do What if the Taiping Rebellion succeeded. I know your not that much into alternate history now, but this is the TL that begs you to make it.
Not introducing foreign elements were the best course of action for them. Foreign ideas, technology and trade empower local powers to destroy centralised power. That's why they don't want foreigner to come in and disrupt the social structure they have established. Their fear of foreigners meddling became reality with Taiping Rebellion and Boshin War in Japan. Conflict and evolution sounds good, but it also meant tons of bloodshed, the Chinese rulers chose peace.
Dude this is amazing, first time I’ve seen a non Chinese UA-camr understand Chinese history, geopolitics, society and their overall mindset so well. 10/10
Amazing analysis, as always. I think that a new important factor is emerging in China - the litoral urban centers. Through it’s centuries, China has been a land-based power, with it’s heartland between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers. But just has the mountains, jungles, steppes and deserts have been natural barriers often controlled by foreign powers, the Sea has become one as well. As you explained, the State crushed the emergence of certain social groups, like the merchants, which in a way halted China from using the Sea for trade despite having that great opportunity. In a time, that position was occupied as well by foreigners, namely the Europeans. The trade posts that they established progressively in China’s coast were initially insignificant in the context of the Middle Empire, but with the triumph of the Western economic model in the Industrial Age, they become axis attracting Chinese economy’s center of gravity. The economic development and opportunities in the East attracted millions from the countryside and the population exploded. The trade posts in a couple of centuries developed into the great Chinese metropolises. The relative openness of these urban centers due to their trade relations with the World make them both economically and socially more liberal than the traditional heartland in the Great Plain. Hong Kong is the biggest example of this. Of course it has very unique characteristics, but it is an image of what Shangai, Guangzhou, Hangzhou or Nanking could become. Even if the Communist regime survives this decade, I believe it won’t reach the 2040s. But by then, everything seems to indicate we will be living in a completely different world. Amazing times to be be alive, late spring of 2022.
the 'communist' regime in china is only a label, they're very similiar in many ways to the current japanese government in that its a conservative, nationalist, quasi-fascist oligarchy where the elites inherit their power and pay lip service to marxist dogma. the only thing that might change is that they get rid of the communist label and just adopt a more purely nationalist one. but nothing else would be fundamentally different.
Look man, I've been following you for years and love your content, specially your more recent, geopolitical analysis. But you've got to improve your editing and maybe the format of your videos. It could help you grow as a channel in every way and it would make my experience much better. I mean, with the mic quality changes every 3 minutes and the walls of text it's already pretty messy, and we've had some minor glitches before too, but the one at min 1:43 is just too much. I know you can do better, and you know you can do better. If you have trouble doing something about all of this, you can always hire someone to edit. But your videos are really asking for that consistency and better looks and care after years of pictures on a black background. In any case, I hope you're doing great. Love your work, man.
I'd love to see a video exploring the influence neurodivergent people (Autism, ADHD, High intelligence etc.) Had. At least as far as we could expect within a reasonable doubt.
As a Chinese historian, I am amazed by the factual generality and accuracy shown in your video. You are gifted at grasping the essential points of a subject you are researching on. I want to offer my 2 cents that are not mentioned in your video. Hope they would be helpful and complementary. * In regard to secular ethics, Confucianism is perhaps the closest ideology to Max Weber's Protestant Ethics you can find on earth. ** Both ethics adore the idea of making local people rich by hard work. ** Confucians want to make local family/clan rich and the State not that rich, while legalists want to make the State rich and local people very very poor. This conflict of visions is throughout the Chinese history in the recent 2000 years. Mao said that he is a Marxist + legalist. That's an accurate self-assessment. ** The congruence between Confucianism and Protestant Ethics is the reason why CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) regimes can be as rich as protestant nations as long as the CJK regimes adopt western democracy. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are the empirical proofs. Their economical performance is better than Catholic nations and any other type of nations (Orthodox, Hindu, Islam and whatever). * 22:23 Actually it is controversial to say that Confucians destroy the techno aspects of China. It was Mongols (Tartars) and Manchu (Eastern Tartars. 17th century European called Manchu just as Tartars) who destroyed the techno aspects of China, because by their common sense they knew that hot weapons would be the worst enemy of their barbarian cavalries. Here is an empirical proof: Han Chinese in Ming Dynasty were crazy about western hot weapons, which were extensively used to fight against Nurhaci's Manchu army. After Manchu conquered Han China, they got rid of all hot weapons and focused on their conventional equestrian skills (弓马娴熟). Until the later 19th century, hot weapons were picked up again by Han Chinese, not Manchu's cavalries. ** 25:57 Again this is due to Manchu's conquer of China. If British people had met a Han Chinese regime in 1790, things would have been totally different. Han Chinese's reaction to western contact is very similar to Japanese's, not Mongol's and Manchu's. ** Even today, the Chinese people who are friendly to western world are mostly from south, and those who are hostile to western world are mostly from north. * 23:33 Song dynasty got rid of serfdom (I actually mean people-bound-to-land because medieval China was not a feudal system). People in Song dynasty had the freedom of migration just like modern day Americans (and Taiwanese, but not mainland Chinese). Serfdom was restored by Mongols, then Ming dynasty inherited Mongol's serfdom policy. Russia suffered a similar fate because Golden Horde mongols/tartars bounded near 100% of their population to the land, therefore implemented an extreme form of serfdom (a totalitarian serfdom, which is different from England's partial serfdom with the presence of significant amount of freemen). In other words, Soviet Union and communist China share the same totalitarian serfdom policy from the same source -- Mongols.
As a Chinese person, what I want to say is, although some parts are not accurate, your description of ancient China is still relatively true. However, your understanding of modern China is quite superficial. The modern China you describe differs significantly from the China I live in. I hope you have the opportunity to come to China in person and take a look, to get to know the real modern China with your own eyes.🧐
There are many good points in this video but I found that your ideology influences your analysis so much that it's even contradicting the points you made in the same video. For example, you mentioned that the Chinese are inward focus, down-to-earth practical, but somehow you concluded that China is the greatest threat to the current world order. And you predict the collapse of it without any good reason. If you could throw away ideology, there is this clear pattern in Chinese history: a chaotic waring period, a short unified regime and a long-lasting dynasty (Han, Tang, Jin, Song, Ming, Qing), then back to the chaotic waring period. No matter how you feel about the Red Dynasty, it fits into this pattern as one of the long-lasting ones. Will there be hiccups like Wang Mang, Wu Zetian etc? Probably. Will it collapse very soon? Unlikely based on the pattern. Ray Dailo's changing world order is a great video to learn about historical patterns: ua-cam.com/video/xguam0TKMw8/v-deo.html
What the people are like and how the government acts are two very different things. Also, he’s covered the reasons China is going to collapse in other videos.
Problem is, throughout all the centuries China has largely been isolated and only subject to serious outside influence via their north. Now, the world is global and any instability in any country will surely be exploited by many others. Back then even Japan couldn't exert any serious pressure on China. Now, the US can easily do it from an entire ocean away.
Great video. Summarizing 5 millennia in 30 minutes can't be easy. From the comments a day later, any mistakes made don't seem huge (can't make a determination on who's right since I haven't studied enough Chinese history for 30 years, so what I did learn is dusty & in shadows). I very much appreciate the fact that you are aware you have biases, flagging that at a couple points. Also a big thank you for including a bibliography.
Glad I'm not the only one that thought the same way with that statement. Utterly insane. Totally detached from reality, and that only fuels China to be the was as it is and double down. I'm not Chinese, but I will speak my mind here. I know Chinese history well and they would rather nuke themselves than go through another century of humiliation. Doesn't matter if it's the CCP or another government. The same foreign policy would happen. If the KMT won and ruled China we'd call it not communist China, but fascist China. The west on the other hands hates when someone beats them at their own game and believes they must submit or be destroyed. This is why, in my humble opinion, instead of coexisting in peace with China and learning from them we instead we will be dragged into a war with nukes and millions of deaths. The same happened with Japan during the pacific war. Only this time it will be worse. God help us all!
How to anger a chinese: 1-Say something like "The Mandate of Heaven is BS". 2-Ask about what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989. 3-Call him a japanese.
4. Inform them that Taiwan is a free and independent country 5. Call them Wumao 6. Explain how Wing Chun is a joke martial art 7. Say Justice for Uyghurs 8. Mention the wuhan virus
Tell me you get everything you "know" about China from incorrect western sources without saying it. Imagine seriously thinking that any Chinese people care about the mandate of heaven in 2022. Fair points on the other ones though, although that last one applies to a ton of different groups. Call a Korean Chinese or Japanese. Call a Japanese person Korean or Chinese. Call an Iranian Arab. Call an Indian a Pakistani. Call a Mongolian a Turk. None of them will like it.
Idk if Chinese civilization developed “from a single society”. As Chinese expanded they modified their customs with those of the newly sinicised population, and in the tang dynasty the ruling elite had heavy turkic influence. Only after the tang did china suddenly become obsessed with the concept of Han purity
I mean the idea of ethnic han at the time was just “Chinese” to them. Also the tang dynasty’s ruling dynasty really weren't that influenced by there Turkic side. While taizong did once use his connections to ally with the xianbei and was partially Turkic. If you were paternally han Chinese he was basically considered han Chinese.
@@jmhsieh7103 I don’t really disagree that the Tang firmly considered themselves as Han, just that Chinese civilization borrowed a great deal from foreign influences as it constructed itself
The Yellow River civilization is the start of the Chinese Civilization with out a shadow of a doubt It has generally been accepted that the Chinese 'Cradle of Civilization' is the Yellow River Valley which gave rise to villages sometime around 5000 BCE. While this has been disputed, and arguments have been made for the more widespread development of communities, there is no doubt that the Henan province, in the Yellow River Valley, was the site of many early villages and farming communities.
You have finally used your sharp-mind and analytical style to praise a non-Western/ proto-civilisation! And apart from some reasonable oversimplications that you yourself reference, I think you've really promoted a solid snd accurate insight into Chinese civilisation, and one of the best insights that a westerner has contributed. I am both Chinese and Western and I think it's hard for European / Western people to understand the sheer power of the idea of 'collective / filial unity' that trumps individual freedom. You really nailed that from a cultural and historic perspective. Chinese people favour collective and familial unity because historically these ideas dominated the society and was reinforced by the pressures of maintaining a massive population which in turn was reinforced by the concepts of Sino-culture. Sino-culture then reflexively reinforced the the society to drive to conserve this due to the benefits it brought. It would be like if the Romans never left Rome... no Western Christendom... but a constant ethnic and cultural renewal. Yes you can say that Medieval Christendom, in particular Byzantine culture and lster Italian Renaissance culture attempted renewal but alas there were far too many cultural differences and its more of an evolution or homage. True Chinese society was reinforced by barbarian or Chinese rulers not evolved upon, it's an introspective concept... something that would not be clear to Westerners. Also it is clear that Rome splintered... leading to divergent cultures... China never truly splintered and was always united... due in part to historical but mainly social/cultural precious. The Sino-basin geographically and culturally wanted to assimilate due to resource pressures and this created homogeneity. Something Europe's geography and culture could never reinforce due to the North/South or East / West divided. China has a very strong cultural and historical North / south divide but no east and west divide as well as the most ruthless and unitary continuous system of states in history.... That's China in a nutshell
0:11 "firm as a rock" One could argue that the often catastrophic dynastic changes are comparable to the empire collapses of other civilizations, however. I also wouldn't call China firm as a rock with all the civil wars, rebellions and conquests.
This is something often discussed in historian circles and opinions on it has swayed multiple times, but today it is mostly agreed that while dynastic changes were absolutely catastrophic, and devastating, they werent civilization *ending* comparable to others in the same context. They would inevitably happen every few hundred years on a massive scale, but in these times of turmoil, warfare and chaos revolved around the idea of *who* is to rule a re-unified China, under the same dynastic rules and traditions etc. In between these moments would be long stretches of centuries of a peaceful and flourishing dynasty (before inevitably collapsing). So while it seems like it happens *a lot* it's because they've just simply been around for a long time, while others stopped existing entirely. In this sense, contrast to many other civilizations it is indeed "firm as a rock". In a historical context, it is as stable as one can get. As the Dynastic system was never replaced until 1900s, which would mean it stretched back to the Qin. Even during the brief Mongol rule, it was still under the Dynastic system, under a Chinese style of governing, and later the Qing (Manchu) would do the same. Contrast this to Rome, where Byzantium is a a term specifically there to differentiate Classical Roman Empire and Medieval Roman Empires, as there was just such a stark difference between them.
I am glad you are posting a lot of Chinese and Western videos in the last few months because, If one knows his enemy, and knows himself, he shall not fear the result of a hundred battles
If u wanna talk about Cantonese history & culture lmk. I’ll reach out more formally too. But Cantonese culture has had an outsized impact on China & the world. We take huge pride in it & the govt is actually currently trying to phase out the language.
@@GL-iv4rw Yeah, it's more due to Northern China having been raided so many times by "barbarians". Cultural assimilation doesn't just go one way, even for China.
Various Chinese dynasties, eras, millenias, periods, decades, centuries, circas, times, lines, timelines, were highly into studying within there environments, atmospheres, surroundings, terrains, spottings, and markings
As a Chinese person, I’d say this video is pretty accurate. I would add that the modern day China has lost its roots due to communist takeover. China has always been a society weak on its culture part. The traditional value system based on Confucianism was modified a few times throughout history to serve dictatorial needs for emperors. I think you can vaguely divide China into two classes: the ruling class and the rest. The ruling class is in a forever power struggle among its cliques, and the rest for the most part of the history had to choose between becoming part of the ruling class or struggle to survive. This is why I would argue that the treatise which represents Chinese thinking the most is the art of war. Many Chinese people, including myself, literally see life as something to be conquered, by whatever means necessary. This survival instinct that comes with deep insecurity of becoming inferior to my environment is what keeps me going on a daily basis.
"The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Chinese saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Chinese; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?" - Mark Twain
The unbroken history of china (regardless of any other issues) is truly stunning. As an American its hard to comprehend 500 years of history let alone 5000 years.
I saw somewhere on an r/askhistorians thread on why Europe surpassed Asia and the answerer said something along the likes of "China continued to develop at a constant or rising pace while Europe developed at a skyrocket pace at the same time".
@@xiaogangdasha Thanks for the reference to Kraut's video. I would like to learn more about China but I have a hard time finding detailed and credible sources as most of what I find seems very simplistic
@@AB-et6nj yeah, im afraid so, chinese history is too long and it had a fair influence over its neighbors and the world too, the records are there but a theory put them all together is lack and ourselves dont have it too :(. i guess its up to us or future historians to interpret it more. And the interpretation of history overall probably depends on how are we view ourselves presently too. edit intercept - interpret :)
China was influenced heavily by Indian/Indic philosophers like Siddhatha Gautama (The Buddha). Whereas, I find the influence of Chinese philosophers like Confucius have no influence on India. Meanwhile, even Greek philosophy made inroads into India.
Interesting comment. Three major reasons- I think- (1) the Indo-European ethnic connection, and (2) the highest concentrations of civilisation in antiquity were in between Greece and India, and (3) the Himalayas…. The Sinic and Indic civilisations do meet and blend extensively in South East Asia, however.
@@vibratoryuniverse308 I agree with your observation. Correct (3), that's why the region is often referred to as Indo-China, even though all of South East Asia (other than North Vietnam, [and even South Vietnam now as Cham people are no longer the majority, replaced after Da Viet conquests], and other pockets, falls under the Indosphere, not the Sinosphere. I also think the Indo-European connection is the reason why majority of the Zoroastrians alive today have survived in India, instead of Iran (Persia).
@@mint8648 The Bhois of Orissa maintained minor maritime trade links with China. This is noted from the Manchu language memorials and edicts depicting contacts under the reign of Qing dynasty in China, when the Qianlong Emperor received a gift from the Brahmin (Ch. Polomen 婆羅門, Ma. Bolomen) envoy of a ruler whose Manchu name was Birakišora han of Utg’ali (Ch. Wutegali bilaqishila han 烏特噶里畢拉奇碩拉汗), who is described as a ruler in Eastern India. Hence referring to Birakisore Deva I of Khurda (1736-1793) who styled himself as Gajapati, the ruler of Utkala. Many of the gosains entering Tibet from China passed through his territory when visiting the Jagannath temple at Puri.[43] The reign of Tipu Sultan in Mysore saw Chinese technology used for sugar production,[44] and sandalwood was exported to China.[45]
3:45 - its amazing how this chart mimics European geography. I am curious as to where “Italians” would have fallen on the chart based on the two components.
Thanks for the video! Now that you've touched on China proper, could you do a video on how China's trends shaped the civilizations of the smaller states around and how/why they deviated from China's trends?
Thank you for talking about the Zhaou Turks! Most people today try to make them seem like they were Chinese but many sources show that they indeed were Turks! Thank You!
kraut video on comparing india to china was great and he came with the conclusion at the china has a strong state system with is dew to it long, complex and ancient history with makes this whole topic that more interesting to me learning about how china got to this point we need to look at it's well to be fair most places share this because history as a subject is very complex
You have an editing error! Your video skips at 1:43 cutting off the introduction to the spread of people. I did just want to let you know, if you haven't noticed already.
It might be wrong to blame Confucianism for preventing social progress in China. The real reason might be that the interpretation of Confucianism is controlled and manipulated by the state since Han Dynasty, becoming more authoritarian, focusing more on loyalty and obedience.
Thank you for watching! Writing up scripts and drafting emails take a longer time to go through than you’d expect sometimes. Make sure you’re prepared with an all-in-one writing tool like Grammarly! It’s FREE, why not? Sign up for a FREE account and get 20% off Grammarly Premium: grammarly.com/whatifalthist
Video on the Islamic World, the Inca Empire and Indian Civilisation, when???
What if napoleons was never born?
@whatifalthist at around 1:43 you have part of the video cut out due to the wrong connection with AD segment
I do have to make a serious correction to make, Jesus would not be a hippie today. people of today are in general much more left-wing than people would have been in Christ's day. considering that jesus, god, does not change, Jesus would not be a hippie, instead he would be considered right wing.
take a look at the sermon on the mount, Jesus doesn't make things easier for his followers, he makes things harder. while the Pharisees said that you should not commit adultery, Jesus says that you shouldn't even watch p***.
Since you see China as a major influence, have heard matt christman from chapo in assessment that the Chinese people will be in stage to create a system that will bring the rise to true communism?
A Chinese person once told me, he and many Chinese people view European history from medieval to early modern times like a European version of a warring states period that never ended with the Napoleon, Habsburgs, Charlemagne, Papacies and the like all being periodic European versions of Qin Shi Huang, that ultimately fail unlike in the east.
Yeah pretty much jsjs
@Maximal My thoughts are that it falls apart under scrutiny (of course) but it makes for an interesting look at an eastern pop-history perceptions for how some spitballing Chinese layman might frame the west after hearing a half hour summary of events in Europe from prehistory to now.
That's actually not a bad way of viewing it
But europe was never united, not even under rome. And the Geography of europe lends itself to fragmentation.
@@georgethompson1460 True. Europe is filled with mountains, rivers and especially peninsulas which cause division.
> Advertises grammarly
> Spells link wrong
A true gigachad
The Chinese were so closed off, that when those British visited China in the 1790s, they had to use Latin to communicate with the Qianlong Emperor.
The Bhois of Orissa maintained minor maritime trade links with China. This is noted from the Manchu language memorials and edicts depicting contacts under the reign of Qing dynasty in China, when the Qianlong Emperor received a gift from the Brahmin (Ch. Polomen 婆羅門, Ma. Bolomen) envoy of a ruler whose Manchu name was Birakišora han of Utg’ali (Ch. Wutegali bilaqishila han 烏特噶里畢拉奇碩拉汗), who is described as a ruler in Eastern India. Hence referring to Birakisore Deva I of Khurda (1736-1793) who styled himself as Gajapati, the ruler of Utkala. Many of the gosains entering Tibet from China passed through his territory when visiting the Jagannath temple at Puri.[43]
The reign of Tipu Sultan in Mysore saw Chinese technology used for sugar production,[44] and sandalwood was exported to China.[45]
the qing, led by manchus, was very isolationist. the ming, led by han people, was somewhat isolationist but not really since many ports were still open- contact with the portuguese were frequent. people over-exaggerate when saying ming was completely isolationist. qing just look ming's policy to the extreme. the conquest of ming was a mistake
@@mint8648 But they still blatantly ignored British innovations.
Fluent Latin nerds: "Finally! It's my time to shine!"
@@miketacos9034 Latin in general was a very important language to learn in academia.
As a buddhist who once was a monk I say ur interpretation of traditional Buddhism was very accurate
Hey, been to India? I've covered all the four most important sites in Buddha's life; Lumbini, Bodhgaya, Sarnath, Kushinagar. Consider this as a warm invitation, you must visit them all.
He gets that a lot when talking about stuff a 22 year old white nerd should know nothing about.
not Mahayana though
India was once a Buddhist majority country but in order to fight against rising violent Islam, Hinduism is needed because of military angle in it
Now Buddhist value in this era reviewing again
@@aakashsingh5288 Buddhism can be very militaristic
I would love a similar episode on Southeast Asia
@MR map did it not though? i feel like it’s easy to overlook southeast asia especially since it’s squished between arguably the two most prosperous civilizations in history.
@MR map That may be true, but it would be an interesting watch nevertheless, just because SE Asia is so rarely a topic you hear discussed.
@MR map It also just isn't a single civilization. At the very least it's 2. Indochina and the "Malay World" to use old terms.
@@charlesmadre5568 that's why it is so interesting but also rarely discussed outside of colonization or the Cold War. I think he could do a great job.
Working on it
(Pt. 1)
I'm Chinese, and while this video is to a certain extent correct, there are a few errors that I have to point out (I am writing this as I watch the vid):
1. No mention of the Xia Dynasty, which in my opinion certainly existed.
2. The Shang did not create the modern Chinese theological system, the Zhou did. They changed it from a monotheistic religion worshipping 上帝 alone headed by the Shang King, to a system headed by the King of the Zhou as 天子 (Son of Heaven) worshipping 上帝 as well, but introducing the abstract concept of 天, or heaven, with 上帝 in charge of 天. Notably, when the power of the Zhou Dynasty waned, this made Chinese religion less structured, leading to China becoming a less dogmatic society than many of its contemporaries, leading to great religious diversity, the development of a large number of religious sects, the large scale acceptance of foreign religions, the deification of many "great men" (placing them in 天), and a history of religious tolerance and syncretism. I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝.
3. The Zhou WERE NOT TURKIC. The Zhou were a Chinese tribe living in the Guanzhong area, west of the Shang heartland in the Central Plains, and were certainly influenced to a certain extent by western nomadic tribes, but then they were almost certainly Chinese. The Zhou Dynasty, through the Rites of Zhou, created much of what is considered Chinese culture and philosophy as we know it today, and Shang culture, by comparison, is mostly unrecognisable. In addition, China already had chariots, likely through prior contact with the Tocharians, before the Zhou took over.
4. The Zhou did not create the classic Chinese feudal system, or 封建, they simply built upon the previous Shang administrative system. In addition, the Zhou split apart into a large number of warring fiefdoms because of a degrading and increasingly weakened central administration in the royal demesne of 鎬京, culminating in the sacking of the city by Western barbarians and the fracturing of the state into its local fiefdoms.
5. Confucianism never was a religion. Confucius himself repeatedly denied being a divine being (or prophet) and said to his followers that they should ask someone else for the mysteries of the afterlife. However, as stated earlier, the Chinese developed a tradition of deifying various "great men", and Confucius was himself deified to a certain extent.
6. There were two people who led the rebellion against the Qin Empire, 陳勝 and 吳廣, not one.
7. The Qin did not create Legalism, they adopted it from various Legalist scholars and philosophers that were sojourning around China at the time. The State of Han also adopted Legalism, for example.
8. Being "down to earth" and "reasonable" declined slightly after the late Southern Song Dynasty and the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream, after which the imperial exams during the Ming and Qing became a quagmire of abstract philosophical thought instead of focusing on government policy or even simply regarding practical solutions for actual problems.
9. China did create a broad metaphysical view of the world during the Song Dynasty in form of Neoconfucianism, which attempted to fuse Taoist and Buddhist metaphysical concepts with Confucian ethics in order to create a full philosophy. However, this was done very late, only 1000 years ago, and there never was one fully agreed upon school of Neoconfucianism (the Cheng-Shu School became the Orthodox school, however, this was never fully accepted and various opposing schools emerged throughout the Song, Ming and Qing Dynasties), hence why the Chinese are very superstitious.
10. Buddhism did not sell itself only amongst the peasants. Buddhism became popular in Chinese society during the Northern and Southern Dynasties period, which was one of the closest things to a Chinese dark age. This was a time when China was divided into two, a south ruled by a series of weak and short-lived empires controlled by the native Han Chinese and dominated by powerful aristocratic clans, and a north ruled by a mix of Han Chinese and nomadic barbarian warlord states, through which a powerful unified empire would sometimes emerge. Buddhism was adopted by the aristocrats and common people alike during this difficult time, in fact, one of China's longest-ruling emperors, Emperor Wu of the Southern Liang, repeatedly tried to abandon his duties as Emperor to become a Buddhist monk.
I kind of tried to google on zhou nomads and found nothing. It's interesting why he called them turkic or nomads. I hope, Whatifalthist will answer your comment
Thanks for the clarification. I suspect Whatifalthist neglected the Xia due to his seemingly more limited knowledge of earlier dynasties, so he didn't feel confident enough to dispute the conflicting experts. Although not natively Chinese nor fluent, I have spent a great deal of time at my university on the search for decent translations, summaries, and reviews of records from the earlier periods of Chinese history and they are much harder to get ahold of. It's already more limited due to the time gap between now and then, but it gets exacerbated in translated texts. Not to excuse his errors, but that may be the reason why there are all those mixups during the Shang and Zhou, I could be wrong though. Thanks for the information, it's greatly appreciated!
Also to what extent do you think Confucius's ideas were accurately followed? Did the Song and Ming actually use his ideas, or just appropriate them? My impression was that the Han dynasty actually followed many of the doctrines but I could be wrong so I was curious.
(Pt. 2)
11. It is true that there have been relatively few wars of religion or campaigns of religious persecution in China, but when they did occur, they were extremely bloody and horrendous. Examples include the Yellow Turban Rebellion (Taoist), Tang Wuzong's great persecution (anti-Buddhist), the White Lotus Rebellion (Manichaean), the Taiping Rebellion ("Christian"), etc. However, the large death toll from these various wars and persecutions may have had more to do with the enormity of China's population and Confucianism's social cohesion, creating massive cohesion within both the followers and opponents of these religious sects.
12. The Han did not expand China to its largest extent, the Tang did. The Tang Dynasty, which was the last major unified dynasty to truly value the military and treat the military as a respectable and prestigious institution, conquered west all the way to the Aral Sea and Persia, east to all of Korea (for two years until Silla rebelled), and north, making Lake Baikal a lake completely surrounded by Chinese territory (at least, on paper). The Tang destroyed the Turkic Khaganates, and there were even plans to conquer Persia from the Ummayads and restore the Sasanian Dynasty (which fled to the Tang after the Muslim conquest) there as a protectorate, although this was later scrapped.
13. One reason why Tang China was so unique, successful, and dynamic was that it was perhaps the only dynasty that had a mixed ruling class, instead of having a purely bureaucratic government. Between the Three Kingdoms Period and the Tang Dynasty, the constant war and chaos meant that the aristocracy, and later the military, had supremacy, but then the creation of the imperial examination system during the Sui allowed the creation of a bureaucratic class that shared power with the military during the Tang. However, it was always unstable, as the power of the military, in addition to the chaotic Ottoman-esque succession crises every time a Tang Emperor died, meant that there were constant coups by the military, and this system started to break down after the An Lushan rebellion, after which regional militaries started to gain increasing amounts of regional power over the central government, which in turn caused warlordism, the collapse of the Tang, and the destruction of the bureaucracy. Thus, after the formation of the Song Dynasty, the imperial examination system was reintroduced with renewed vigour, while the military aristocracy faded into nonexistence, after which the military was suppressed, which created a monolithic bureaucratic ruling class. Subsequent attempts to reestablish a military ruling class in China, like the Song Dynasty during the wars against the Jurchens, the rule of the Yongle Emperor during the Ming, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, and the warlordism of the 1920s, also failed to achieve long-term stability and fell apart, or were crushed by the bureaucrats.
14. The Chinese bureaucracy only became conservative and unimaginative from the Ming Dynasty onwards. The Song Dynasty, which was the peak of Chinese intellectual thought, had imperial examinations which included mathematics and poetry and produced geniuses like Ouyang Xiu, Shen Kuo, Sima Guang, Wang Anshi, Su Shi, etc, who would often have a bureaucratic day job and a side job, and as a result, polymaths like Shen Kuo emerged, and a technological golden age also occurred during the Song partially for this reason. However, as mentioned earlier, after the advent of Cheng-Zhu Neoconfucianism to the mainstream and Zhu Xi's interpretation of Confucianism becoming the material for imperial exams, in addition to the creation of the Eight-Legged exam by Wang Anshi, which became the exam's structure starting from the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese bureaucracy became conservative and unimaginative.
15. Other social groups were not constantly oppressed. The reason for the Song Dynasty's dynamism was because it was the least domineering of the dynasties, which meant it was the only dynasty to not oppress the towns and merchants in any meaningful way, allowing for the development of a massive and very strong urban commercial sector. This, in addition to the introduction of rice from Champa and the development of new ploughs starting an agricultural revolution, allowed the population to explode, starting an economic revolution in turn, making the Song dynasty the richest country on Earth by GDP per capita at the time, and the richest Chinese dynasty ever. As for the military, I already explained the success of the Tang earlier in that regard. Then again, the bureaucrats were still the dominant social class throughout these eras.
16. The military was only starved starting from the Song Dynasty onwards. Previous conquests of parts of China by nomads (as China was never fully conquered by nomads before the Mongols) were caused by horrific civil wars in China, which severely weakened the state and allowed for an easy invasion by the barbarians. The oppression of the military by the Song was an overreaction to the fracturing and warlordism of China post-Tang, but even so, the Khitans never conquered south of Tianjin, the Jurchens were stopped at the Huai River, and the Mongols only conquered China after 45 years of constant bloody war. As for the Manchu conquest of China, that was the result of a series of massive peasant rebellions during the Little Ice Age of the late Ming, which ended up overthrowing the Ming Dynasty (in northern China, at least) and severely weakening China as a whole.
17. China was only fully conquered by nomads/barbarians 2.5 times. The 0.5th time was by the Sui, which was an ethnic Chinese polity, but the Sui Dynasty was a successor state of the Northern Wei, which was ruled by the Xianbei Barbarians. The 1.5th time was by the Mongol Yuan, and the 2.5th time was by the Manchu Qing.
18. (15:36) Putting a picture of the Tang Dynasty while mentioning alliances with other nomadic peoples is not entirely accurate. The Tang, as mentioned earlier, destroyed the Turkic Khaganates and conquered the steppe, however, it lost control of present-day Mongolia when Wu Zetian took power, during which a descendent of the Ashina Dynasty, which ruled the Turkic Khaganates, created a second Turkic Khaganate. After this, the Tang indeed had to use alliances with other nomads to control the northern nomads. The Han also had to use alliances and concessions with the Xiongnu before that proved untenable and Han Wudi started his destruction of the Xiongnu.
19. The Dark Age of Barbarian Invasions, which included the aforementioned Northern and Southern Dynasties period, was from between the early-4th to late 6th centuries, not 350-700 AD, and they never fully conquered China. In addition, as mentioned earlier, I also do not consider the Zhou to be nomadic barbarians. The Khitan Liao and Jurchen Jin also never fully conquered China.
20. The barbarian descendants did establish themselves as nobles in China, but most nobles in China around the time of the Tang and Sui were still Chinese. Although a disproportionate amount of nobles from northern China were barbarian descendants, and northern Han Chinese nobles did frequently intermarry with the barbarian descended nobles, Northern Chinese nobles as a whole were still mostly Han Chinese, while Southern Chinese nobles were fully Han Chinese (I am writing this as a descendant of Southern Chinese nobles who lived in Northern China during this era). However, the nobles of barbarian descent Sinicised by the time of the Sui and based their identity on being Chinese and being part of the Chinese nobility, alongside their fellow nobles of Han Chinese descent.
Wow you do know Chinese history. I don’t know even as much as the video creator but it does seem like most of Chinese traditions has been lost (for better or worse) after CCP took over from living there over ten years recently.
>I myself am a Christian with a Confucian philosophical outlook and Taoist ancestors and metaphysical view, who calls God 上帝.
I find this fascinating as a Christian from Europe, I would love to read more into how Christianity is adapted in non-European cultures. It's alike a whole different theological/philosophical world waiting to be discovered.
I desperately dream to move to China for some time and properly dive into the culture. Thank you for your comment :)
8:27 The Qin didn't form Legalism, they adopted it. During the Spring and Autumn Period, Legalism was just one of the Hundred Schools of Thought that were spread all around China, competiting for supremacy. Confucianism and Mohism are the other two more well known ideologies created during that era.
27:50 the Taiping Rebellion wasn't a Christian Rebellion nor supported/influenced by the Americans since they were also having their civil war, the Taiping Rebellion was a Hakka/Han Rebellion that misinterpreted the Bible and didn't have any support of the West so much that the West helped the Qing defeat them.
You could definitely make the argument that the Taiping religion was 'Christian' since they used the Bible and believed in Jesus (kinda)
I think he may have meant Influenced in thought 🤔
the west supported qing because they rather have a weak state (qing dynasty) than a potentially strong state (heavenly dynasty). not entirely incorrect to call taiping a "christian rebellion"
They were supported by independently acting US mercenaries. But no they weren’t largely supported by western countries
Strongly agree with the second part. That is revolt against their Qing conqueror (foreign occupation) by mixing Jesus with local belief. The local belief is the major factor why a huge army can be raised. Jesus alone cannot appeal to many average men except the inner core of Taiping.
Very happy about the explosion in Chinese content. Its the most alien civilization on our planet from a western perspective.
Id like to highlight as others have, the 1:42 glitch
Which is honestly a testament to China's poor Softpower influence compared to say their East Asian neighbors Japan and SK - as culturally in a social visiting/business context, I found Chinese folks were much more culturally easier to understand and get along with than in Japan/SK in terms of manners, body language, personality, humor, schedules etc (from a social perspective).
We think we know more about Japan because of media but the average Chinese persons personality/outlook is much closer aligned with someone from the US . In fact, Japanese media has done *more* for Chinese history and media than China itself (Through Anime/Video Games).
@@KingR3aper like Dynasty Warriors? I'm sure there are also great Chinese media for instance I think their music is better, the games are on par and the animation is catching up
King Reap3r
I completely agree with you. This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot for a long time. Just the fact that people know about quintessential Chinese culture elements, such as, for example, Kanji, Go or Koto, through the Japanese versions and the Japanese names of three elements goes on to show how much Chinese culture has been exported more through Japan than through China itself.
And for the topic in question, I disagree with OP. If anything, I think East Asian culture is relatively familiar to Western culture, in comparison to, say, Indian culture. It might be a bias because I've been immersed in East Asia culture all my life but there'd have to be a very good argument to convince me of that.
@@GL-iv4rw There may be great Chinese Media, but Japan and South Korea have a much easier time accessing the world. While it might be economically Capitalist, China is still very much Communist in the sense that it has a government that tries to take the lead on culture and meddle. Countries like that tend to have pretty low amounts of soft power - think of the Soviet Union.
Heck you could make a strong argument that tiny Hong Kong historically had more of an impact on current world culture than all of mainland China.
@@Hoopsnake They mostly use pop culture and modern mass consumerism as "soft power". China don't do that and they usually portray authentic traditional culture (ofc that does not mean being outdated, low-tech or out of touch with modern reality). It's why Chinese key tourist spots are historical sites/Beijing opera/scenic spots etc while Japanese/Korean ones are shopping areas/bars/restaurants etc. Now it's understandable if you like the latter and not the former
One of the few UA-camrs that actually studies entire world civilizations, now that's impressive.
He's really bad at it lmao
@@reubennelson4086 algorithmic history
He’s above average
@@ugiswrong that is an incredibly low bar
@@reubennelson4086 Sure, and you are... Who?
3:43
>"If you look at genetic maps, you see Europe is a North-South gradient"
> *genetic map clearly shows an East-West gradient *
Calling Zhou “Turks” is the most cursed thing I’ve ever heard. No. The Zhou dynasty wasn’t Turkic. I know you are a Turkophile but this is just a new level.
This guy and his turk loving... Nek minit he will be calling Julius Caesar a turk.
Whatifalhist might be a literal Turk secret agent or something at this point. That or he has some sexual fetish for this culture. In a previous video of his he predicted that in the near future there will be a new Turk empire spanning from Central Europe to Africa and Central Asia conquering not one not two but 35 nations. This guy has lost me with the Turk propaganda.
The Neo-Ottoman Empire will reach all the way to its heartland in northern China!
We are all Africans mannn
@@flowertowerrr I mean all non-black people are just lost African tribes after all
As a "slow oldie" I must say this was one of your best videos - not too fast, mostly clear diction and a healthy dose of respectful and, dare I say humble, commentary. Keep up the good work!
I took an East Asian cultures class in college and it surprised me that Confucianism was not really a religion, but more of a moral framework that could probably be plopped down and used in any society. What we usually refer to Confucianism today seems to just be the Ancient Chinese religion (ancestor worship) preserved to the modern day.
The religion you referring to is called Taoism. I remember high school history book called Confucianism a religion probably because people who wrote it thinks kids are dumb and they couldn’t understand Confucian philosophy or what it really is.
现在还在推崇😂，多数中国人是不信宗教的
Confucianism sits squarely in the category of philosophy. Just as neo-Platonism is a philosophy.
“The earth is black in front of the cliff, and no orchids grow.
Creepers crawl in the brown mud by the path.
Where did the birds of yesterday fly?
To what other mountain did the animals go?
Leopards and pythons dislike this ruined spot;
Cranes and snakes avoid the desolation.
My criminal thoughts of those days past
Brought on the disaster of today.”
― Wu Cheng'en,
Creeper? Aww man…
my bals hrut - Taoyen Heigui
Wise words.
Hence ye endure the sins of your fathers.
@@KingArthur0914 🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵
The fact that Chinese civil wars tend to be the most deadly events in history actually speaks for the strength of Chinese states in the past. The nation can rise up from ashes of the previous dynasty so quickly that the land reaches maximum population capacity in a century or two. The nation gets overpopulated so often that natural disasters tend to lead to massive famines followed by very deadly civil wars. By comparison Europe has often failed to reach the full potential of population capacity due to constant warring and plague. So it's not that European monarchs are less tyrannical or people less brutal, they just rarely each the level of overpopulation that can cause massive scale deaths.
In other words, Chinese empires have a history of very rapid development following collapse of the previous government, hence their ability to 'fight on the Moon'. Their 21st Century economic miracle is not alien concept to them. But in the end their upper limit is dictated by geography. In the past it's farm yields and in the case of CCP China this limit is oil production and oceanic control. The Belt and Road and SCS military bases are exactly addressing these problems, but haven't worked well yet.
That's why China has the most potential to be the most powerful empire the world has ever known. It's just foreign intervention & enemies abroad so far that have prevented china from rising to it's full peak potential. Though in 2022 China is rapidly taking Americas place , probably by 2030 they'll be #1
Human ants
Millions die but they still build a new mound the next day
It's actually catastrophic. The only thing uniting China is the size of the country. It's demographics are collapsing, and Western and other East Asian businesses are leaving China in droves, sucking away production, investment and employment. Tens of millions of Chinese are now dying from unchecked Covid infection. The soils of China are overpolluted with similar problems with the streams, lakes and ground water. China may now have the most polluted agricultural lands on Earth. This is a double punch if I ever saw one historically. Furthermore, the CCP have largely brought this state of affairs upon the Chinese and themselves. I doubt that the CCP can survive much longer under these horrendous circumstances,
Polygamy
That’s pretty scary actually.
Alot of chinese based content lately love it
Based
China is just another paper tiger. All they can do is copy Western tech and their army hasn't fought a major conflict for a human lifetime
it is cool but the details he lay out are not good
like how fools comment 8 minutes into the 30 minute video , like they rly do be knowing what’s going and submit BaSeD without further elaboration
Former Australian ambassador John Lander.
ua-cam.com/video/7khk4OXX2qM/v-deo.html
The fiction of the China ‘threat’
Its insane how China has somehow endured at least 3 WW2 inside its own border: Mongol invasions, Taiping rebellion and Mao.
How exactly did it endure those events? Each event represents a pretty major continuity break for governance and philosophy?
Endure in that basically the same people and peasantry persisted throughout all that awfulness? If that's the argument all polities "endure" everything and it's not amazing.
Like India, its current MACRO unification of what was once many states, is a totally new concept.
or we can say, Mongols Manchurians and Japaneses fail to build an universal empirr which last,
once they lost their empire,it is impossible to rebuildq again,
but China did it,
Just because they have so many people. If they had a smaller population they would most likely end up like their counterparts in Siberia, pushed out and replaced by external powers.
and *actual ww2*
During Mao’s era, from 1949 to 1976, China gained 300 millions inhabitants, put an end to endemic famines, built an industrial base, improved literacy. Compare this to what China was when Mao was born in 1893.
The Prussian weren't Totalitarian, just very militarist.
Yes you are right. I think he knows that
does he *Really* know tho?
They were the first European nation to force mandatory education. They were totalitarian for the time and region.
@@SwornInvictus No.
@@sinoroman no. He's very biased
Confucius was the arch-conservative, more than Plato, seeking to restore the ancient Chinese religion that he thought was coming undone.
10:03 Spring festival Season Taboos
"No killing (including animals): it brings misfortune"
But you can kill your neighbor right after spring festival, no misfortune at all!
As a Chinese,i say yes
It's amazing how governments constantly try to stifle progress for their own good. How have we still never ended this.
Governments even today in Democratic countries try and stay in power by favoring backward policies that helps them politically
Because this "progress" itself leads to a new government.
Only way to rid yourself of government is to rid yourself of society.
@@tanmaykumar4561 i don't think having no government is good either. Just wish we had some competence.
@@Gergentine FUCK GOVERNMENTS!!! GLORY TO ANARCHY!!!
Governments will *always* seek to expand their control - it's inherent, as well expect an apex predator to stop killing things!
The best we can do is keep down, as much as possible, their _ability_ to expand their control. A free-enterprise system is the best we've yet discovered ... a society in which there is constant technological change tends to make real dominating control *extremely* difficult!
This is why the CCP tries to make sure any new tech is *first* used for _it's_ purposes!
Small quibble other commentators seem to have missed: Buddhism arrived in China by the Han dynasty, not the Tang. However, under the Tang dynasty Buddhism underwent radical changes in Chinese culture that make it the form Chinese Buddhism is today.
8:20 "The Qin were the Prussians of Ancient world"
This is accurate since the Qin Army has the same color as the Prussians..their Soldier's are same in Black color and their Banner were in color Black mostly
As a Christian myself I take great issue with the claim that "Jesus would be a hippie" today. That is not true at all. Jesus defended property rights, did not condemn military but rather commanded them to be men of integrity, encouraged his own disciples to sell their pouches to purchase swords, stood up for the right to defend yourself and did not preach poverty gospel nor prosperity gospel. He even forcibly removed merchants and sellers from the Temple with a handmade whip in sheer anger for their disrespect of God's house. To say He was a hippie in disposition is way off.
Amen
Sounds like a militant hippie.
@@AdoringAdmirer Those words are oxymorons my guy.
@@alexanderb5726 WHO ARE YOU CALLING A MORON?!
@@alexanderb5726met many hippies?
One of the main drivers of the individualism in the West was the Catholic Church, that discouraged close (cousin) marriages and gradually broke big familial clans. Exceptions were made for some of the noble houses. This, combined with the much more difficult geography in Europe, caused the historical evolution between the two ends of the Eurasian landmass to develop very different social and political cultures.
The Fall of Civilizations Podcast did a great job explaining how well-mobilized the Han could be, getting the society to match the Huns in horses under a single Emperor.
This is the first time I've ever heard someone call the Zhou Turkic. The Zhou people were distinct from those of the Shang, but they were a highly-related Sinitic group, certainly not a Turkic one.
I know western China is turkic but there seems to be research saying those people came from the east? However this also seems to indicate the transition happened hundreds of years before the Zhou period. Perhaps thats his confusion.
"The origins of the Turkic peoples has been a topic of much discussion.[35] Recent linguistic, genetic and archaeological evidence suggests that the earliest Turkic peoples descended from agricultural communities in Northeastern China and wider Northeast Asia, who moved westwards into Mongolia in the late 3rd millennium BC, where they adopted a pastoral lifestyle."
Fun Fact: Northern Chinese people from cities like Harbin or Peking have more Turkic genetics in them than the Turks of Turkey.
there's been a shift the past few years saying the Shang/Zhou were not "Chinese" but Turkic/Xianbei whatever, and they claim that "the Chinese" never existed but were all "northern peoples", it's all revisionist history based on Turkic people being from NE China / Mongolia area, which was never part of Chinese civilization (Yellow River valley)
@@danielzhang1916 这是什么故事？有引文吗？
@@danielzhang1916 这里说的是周朝，还是北周？周朝应该和鲜卑没关系吧
I really liked that you put the bibliography, I always wondered what are your references so I could read then. Thank You!
Most important thing throughout Chinese history is unity,maintain stable. Every time when the central government collapse then civil war happens,it will last for hundred years and lost 50%-80% of its population. Unity is the supreme priority in China,understanding it is the basis to understand China.
To summarize in Bill wurtz: "Guess who's not gone?? China!" "China is whole again, then it broke again!"
The Ming are loved for their great selection of emperors. You have woodworkers, polo players, actors, shamans and sometimes even general and good leaders!
About Daoism: I think its focus switched from spirituality to rituals as it become more popular. A change that many people (including me) consider being negative.
Well, I am from Balkans and Daoist energy exercises allowed me to rake charge of my emotions and psychological well being, also to last as long as I want during sex.
So I am basically on spiritual mode of it as it seems.
@@dragasinbrankovic awesome
Just a comment on the screen where you showed "Ying" and Yang": First, it is "Yin" and not "Ying". Also, Yin is the female / darker side, while Yang is the male / brighter side. Most of the rest of your analysis seems pretty interesting and factual, but you did mix those two concepts up (around 7:50 in)
The translations for Chinese are extremely imprecise, between Peking, Peiping, Beijing all describing the same city or Zhao, Chao, Cao, Cho all being the same
@@WhatifAltHist Sichuan and Szechuan as well, which annoys me to no end since I lived in Chengdu (Sichuan) for a while.
@@WhatifAltHist if it helps, there are I beehive two main ways to write Chinese with English, you either use official pinyin (I use this) or you use a different way (I have no idea how it works, apparently there’s a whole other system) that many historians use. That’s how you get differences in translation. Beijing is the pinyin way, while Peking is the other way. Peiping was the previous name for Beijing used in the first half of the 20th century. With thousands of years of history, these cities switch names a lot of times
@@henrytsang5200 Honestly it sounds like "Peking" was actually a variant of "Peiping" because we've a historical event called I think "15 days at Peking" around the turn of the century which then further adds to the confusion.
@@henrytsang5200 Historians tend to use the other transliteration because that's what all the histories use. Hanyu pinyin is specifically a CCP project of the 50s; the most common older system was the Wade-Giles system created a century earlier.
Worth pointing out that pinyin isn't used because it's 'better,' it's used because the CCP says it's used, and because the CCP has weight to throw around, it was adopted by ISO and the UN.
The RoC has toyed with making it official, too, but large parts of the country were recalcitrant, seeing it as CCP cultural imperialism.
I have to say, my dude, your understanding of Buddhism is profoundly inaccurate - or should I say your understanding of what the Buddha’s damma was. It was not nihilistic, was not atheistic, believed in demons, and the Buddha himself set up the Buddhist “church”.
Sorry dude, but what you said is just plain utterly incorrect.
well no he had atheistic views .
@@opai1821 If the Buddha had atheistic beliefs, who were Mara and Brahma for example?
@@evolvedape2161 The Buddha was not atheist in the sense that he didn't believe in god, but rather than god's existence was irrelevant to the cycle of life and rebirth.
@@tejasmisra9115 Right, even the gods would succumb to samsara. The Buddha was explicitly not an atheist, however.
He seems to be a staunch materialist. For him to understand something as enigmatic and complex (yet intuitive) is probably not possible.
Life is never easy, and there always will be difficulties in every path. I hope for the best to all my chinese fellows from Russia:)
спасибо my ruski fren
That's a very interesting summary of Chinese history and it's entertaining as well :)
This UA-cam is basically a closed loop of errors and nonsense. I found it funny when he said that Chinese culture is conservative. Not to mention the Qing Dynasty, even today in the 21st century, men and women in the Middle East cannot sit in the same car, and Malaysia and Indonesia will still beat to death adulterers and homosexuals. The fact is that the more powerful a country is, the more likely it is to accept foreign cultures. When a government is weak internationally, its culture will naturally become conservative. This is what happens to any country. He said that China is totalitarian, which I find even funnier. No matter how you spread out the world map, as long as it is not those more than 30 developed countries, which other countries have people with a much higher living standard than the Chinese? Don't listen to the Communist Party's propaganda, China is not a paradise. But don’t listen to what the Western media says about China being a hell. How good China is only depends on who you compare it with. If I had the opportunity to be born in Europe and the United States, I would never be Chinese. But if I had been born in India, I would have started to believe in the Communist Party.
The point you made about Chinese Buddhism being basically the opposite of what Buddha taught, while also noting that historically most forms of Christianity are basically the opposite of what Jesus taught is pretty fascinating.
I think it's interesting that in recent decades, a lot of Westerners express interest in Buddhism, members of my own family and friend group included, while shunning Christianity for all it's problematic manifestations in history, society and culture. This always confused me, because when I think of Christianity, I focus primarily on Jesus and his teachings, but to most Westerners, it is difficult for them to divorce Christianity from its cultural and historical contexts, and so they don't just think about Jesus when they hear "Christianity," but also about the Crusades, colonialism, residential schools, abuse scandals, etc. When they hear "Buddhism" on the other hand, because they are not immersed in the cultural and historical contexts of how Buddhism manifests in Chinese or other societies, they have an idealized image of what Buddhism is based solely on what the Buddha taught, and not how Buddhism has been expressed in cultures and societies throughout history.
It's kind of ironic, but also fascinating and makes a lot of sense, that oftentimes the people who are most "puritanical" about following the original teachings of Buddha without cultural and religious syncretism with folk religions and superstition, are Western converts to Buddhism. Likewise, I would argue that the Christian community which does the best job at emulating Christ's example in the modern world is the Chinese church, perhaps for similar reasons--because they don't carry the weight of historical and cultural baggage as "historically Christian" cultures in other parts of the world. The underground Chinese church is known for being a very grass-roots, egalitarian movement, with more female leaders in the movement than men, and are strictly opposed to mixing their faith with politics.
There is a quote from a Punjabi Christian missionary named Sadhu Sundar Singh which I think perfectly captures this:
"While sitting on the bank of a river one day, I picked up a solid round stone from the water and broke it open. It was perfectly dry in spite of the fact that it had been immersed in water for centuries. The same is true of many people in the Western world. For centuries they have been surrounded by Christianity; they live immersed in the waters of its benefits. And yet it has not penetrated their hearts; they do not love it. The fault is not with Christianity, but in men's hearts, which have been hardened by materialism and intellectualism."
I'm going to disagree with you heavily on the Christianity thing, especially in the United States. There are two types of incorrect christianity, if you will, in the west. The first one is the prosperity wealth preachers. Those are obviously not going by the teachings of Christ. The other side is on the opposite side, the progressive christians, who refuse to denounce any form of sin and stray from actual biblical theology as far as possible. Both of these groups disregard the Bible and Jesus's teachings as well as the teachings of Christ through the apostles.
However, both of these forms of Christianity are laughed at and shamed by the majority of Christendom. The idea of the Southern Baptist is much closer to the teaching of Jesus than the Joel osteen crowd, and they follow the teachings of Christ much more than Kenneth Copeland. These forms of Christianity are not regarded as really Christian, even while protestants Catholics and orthodox can all get along with one another, the prosperity gospel and progressives are both in their own camp and regarded as oddities.
Perhaps you're speaking on the people who are only considered culturally Christian, "easter Christians", but for any active Christian, we view Christianity as it is, not through modern contexts
@@SeanWinters I actually think you’ve proven OP point that lots of so called ‘christians’ today lack belief in the core tenets of the faith ie the teachings of Jesus. They instead choose to superimpose their own ideologies onto “their” Christianity as opposed to the other way round of their religion affecting their views on other matters. The examples you mentioned of Christian’s that push capitalistic materialism or progressive social values are in fact people who have been so ensconced in the veil of a Christian culture that they do not actually understand it or appreciate it and thus choose to arbitrarily appoint their faith onto whatever other beliefs they have regarding politics, economics, society etc. Whereas a ‘foreign’ religion such as Buddhism has never had a cultural grip on westerners and defined how they see the world like it has in many parts of Asia so the vast majority of westerners can only be outsiders looking in on Buddhism looking to its authority figures (namely Gautama aka the ‘Buddha’ himself) to understand something they’ve never encountered properly. Likewise the reverse exists for any easterner looking at Christianity and looking to its spiritual guider Jesus to understand it whereas their own experience of Buddhism is more ephemeral and human in the same way Christianity is to westerners. People in Asia also impose their own ideology onto Buddhism in the same way people in Europe or NA do with Christianity
Yes I mean cultural Christians. I would argue that most people (at least in Western countries) who call themselves Christian are not actually Christians. For example, around 60-70% of people in Western Europe identify as Christians, and yet according to Pew Research only 14% of Swedes, 27% of French, 28% of Germans, and 29% of Brits actually believe in the Christian God. Yet those countries are still see themselves as Christian countries and are thought of as Christian countries by the rest of the world, even if more people in somewhere like China believe in the Christian God and actually go to church on a regular basis.
Also, even if the majority of Christendom rejects concepts such as progressive theology or prosperity gospel, I would still argue that historically the majority of Christendom has also acted in an un-Christlike manner. For instance the church tying itself to the state--Catholicism and Orthodoxy, Anglicanism and Lutheranism, for example. This was rejected to an extent in America, but even then many American Christians (whether right or left) put their politics above their faith. I would argue that the schisms (whether between the Roman and Persian, Catholic and Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches) were primarily political in nature, with theological aspects as a secondary factor, and that this is the same case with many churches today (for example schisms between the church in Moscow and Constantinople over Ukraine, or the Methodist Church over homosexuality).
@@tianming4964 As a protestant, I must agree there are things wrong with catholicism, but I'm unsure what you mean by "tying itself to the state". Do you mean they fail because they allow the government to tell them how to act, or is it the mere connection of these things?
I will also say that, no Christian can truly act Christlike. Being Christian means to be a hypocrite.
We are like long jumpers, who can never reach the bar. Just because some people's bars are on the floor(no morals this no moral failings) doesn't mean they jump higher than us.
I'm more versed in the reformation, which absolutely started on a theological level(with the most notable exception of the Anglican church), and the separation was later turned "political" with the 30 years war. Although after that war, most of Europe agreed fighting over religion was not such a Christ like thing to do.
"The Chinese abolished slavery before the birth of Christ"
Honestly, WOW. Speaks so much of this proud civilization.
like all of his pronouncements of the abolition of slavery this is mostly hyperbole. Slavery still existed in China, just like it still existed in Europe after Christianity , just like it still existed in the Iranian Plateau after the Achaemendids, just like it still existed after the British abolished slavery in the 19th century
Most areas with huge populations abolished slavery on their own.
Slavery only makes sense with low populations, like in the Americas, where labour is so expensive you have to artificially force the price down via slavery.
Either that, or you’re a Muslim empire.
@@innosam123 lmao, that last part caught me off guard
So had Persia (or Iran) under Zoroastrianism, but that was before it was reintroduced under Islam.
imagine China invented nazism how it could look like
As Westerners, we look for analogues in other civilizations for the things in our own civilization. The problem is many of those analogues don't exist in China. This becomes even more pronounced with other civilizations. So the tendency is to project our ideas on to things in other civilizations that don't fit or don't exist. It's the comparative historian's dilemma.
My crazy thought about the origins of the divergence between China and the other civilizations is that China didn't have the equivalent of the hard reset of the Bronze age collapse of the ancient near east (including Mycenae) which is the progenitor of both Western and Islamic civilizations.
Near eastern rulers lost much of their divine status in the collapse and had never recovered it. Their legitimacy was hence on based on the suppport of the priesthood or pure military force. China looks like a what if ancient Egypt could continue as it was before the collapse for another 2000 years including surviving into the axial age and then unify the western eurasia civilization zones.
Something like the concervative mandarin bureaucracy looks like a possible logical contiuation of Egyptian scribal class. After the collapse new simplified writing systems allowed many to bypass the scribes with much higher overall literacy.
Religion had three components during the bronze age: Folk belief, Pantheon and Divine kingship (think of the Pharaos). In the west divine kingship was weakened and the priesthood gained power to make the pantheon supreme and the philosophies became pure rationalism or theism with religion evolving into current missionary monotheism. In China there was no collapse and this allowed the pantheon to atrophy with it's priesthhod leaving kind of emperor worship mixed with folk religion and philosophy taking a different route.
Only issue is that Islamic was fundamentally derived from Roman civilization and the influences of the others by the bronze age collapse can barely be felt
@@buddermonger2000 Regarding other, Rome is derived from earlier iron age civilizations, especially ancient Greece with additional Phoenician influence, both those were transformed by the collapse. India had similar event with the collapse of Indus valley civilization. The Incas on the other side had many collectivist "Chinese" features including true emperor worship and centrally planned economy. They resembled the ancient Bronze age civilizations in many respects
Makes sense tbh
The divergence between China and the other civilizations is other major ancient civilization is destroyed by "barbarian" while in China "barbarian" Sinicized. If Rome have more population than Germanic tribes they probally still around.
China never collapsed because the culture was always there, even when it was controlled by the Mongols/Manchu, they assimilated into Chinese society because that was the only way, this never happened in the West, China has always absorbed other peoples, not the other way around, I think that's the reason why it succeeded but many didn't
Overall it's quite an accurate depiction of Chinese history and political philosophies, kudos to the hard work of whatifalthist channel! Being someone who has studied both Chinese and Western history intensively out of personal curiosity, I'd like to elaborate on a few key understandings.
1. Why the Southern Song dynasty composed poetry instead of waging war to recover Northern China. I see a parallel in the Byzantine empire which did not make major efforts to recover lost territory in its later years. It instead focused on theological orthodoxy. Even though eventually the Byzantines lost their empire, their orthodox theology caused a large swath of countries to stubbornly adhere to that creed to this day and form a major counterweight to Western ideology. Same applies here - without adequate resources and logistical advantages the Southern Song knew they would not have the upper hand in recovering lost territory. However their focus on orthodox Confucian ideology and culture largely resulted in Chinese identity being maintained during the Mongol Empire's rule, and assimilation of the Manchus into the Chinese sphere. With the military prowess of the Manchus China has been able to hold onto Xinjiang, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia to this day.
2. Chinese government's cleverness was the reason for massive economic growth and gain of state power on the world stage in recent decades. Cleverness cannot be the main reason to explain a massive development like this. The main reason is strategic interplay of world powers - a perfect analogy is Russia: in the 19th century France needed Russia to counter UK so it gave massive loans and technological help to the Russian Empire. By the end of the century UK and America also needed Russia to counter Germany so they also massively helped Russia and the Soviet Union to develop into a major world power. Back in the 18th century nobody thought Russia was going to become one of two superpowers of the world in the 20th century. Along a similar reasoning, America and the West needed China to counter the Soviet Union in the 20th century, therefore helped foster the rapid growth of China. In a globalized world, China's size and its ability to unite itself efficiently makes it a useful counter weight to any major world power.
Obviously there are probably minor inaccuracies (for example what ethnic group ruled China in the Zhou dynasty etc.) but there is currently debate about the ethnic origins of ancient China due to new DNA research. The orthodox Chinese view of ethnic or racial purity is artificial and not worth discussing.
Just to make it clear, the Song elite didn't just write poems lamenting the loss of Northern China, they also tried to retake it by force, three separate times. The first time was Yue Fei's counteroffensive during the first Jurchen invasion of the Song. Meanwhile, the poets who wrote those poems, like Lu You and Xin Qiji, were some of China's most hawkish politicians, and had a major effect on Song policy towards northern reconquest. They nearly succeeded after a second Jurchen invasion, which went disastrously, and the naval Battles of Tangdao and Caishi, which paved the way for a reconquest of the North, but the invasion lost momentum and the Song and Jin made peace in 1164 in the Peace of Longxing, reducing their annual tributary payments, but not gaining any land. There was a second attempt to retake the North by the Song, who invaded the Jurchen Jin in 1206 after a hawkish faction, led by Chancellor Han Tuozhou, who incidentally was helped to power by Lu You and Xin Qiji, gained power in court and hoped that the Jin had succumbed to decadence like the Liao. The invasion was a complete disaster, and in the aftermath, the Song was forced to increase their annual tribute to the Jin in the Peace of Jiading. The point is, that the Song did actively attempt to retake the North.
@@Thecognoscenti_1 yes they tried to fight but they also negotiated peace several times. It's prudent to do so when you don't have the winning hand. Also the Song court was fearful of generals getting too powerful, much like the late Manchu court would rather make peace with western powers than to let ethnic Han generals get too powerful. Therefore it's not wrong to say the southern Song focused on culture more than recovering territory. And I argue that building cultural strength is the right thing to do when you aren't in a position to win militarily.
wow in another word so the credits all belong to the west ?
@@xxxyyy9361 credit of China's fast development in the last 30 years should be given to both external and internal reasons. External geopolitical opportunity is the biggest reason as I stated with America needing China to counter the Soviet Union, and Western capitalism needing lots of cheap labor to produce bigger profits for capital. The internal reasons should also be given credit: chiefly the tradition of national unity and emphasis on education in Chinese culture, and the ability of the communist government to maintain social cohesion while softening raw capitalism's negative impacts at a low financial cost (contrasting with the experience of Russia and Latin America where domination of oligarchy occurred and vitality of capitalism is lost). Another set of external/internal contributors worth mentioning are the massive help by overseas Chinese who have continued and revived Song and Yuan China's merchantilist traditions despite coastal trading bans by the Ming and Qing dynasties; and the Soviet help with foundation of heavy industry in the 1950s.
The Manchus were definitely not "nomadic conquerers". At the time where they conquered China, they were a settled, urbanized, state-civilization.
True. They had advanced industries and controlled china’s ginger and cloth dye supply. A significant amount of china’s silver imported from spain were in turn exported to the manchus.
they weren't nomadic, yes. but, they weren't entirely civilized either since they were at least somewhat nomadic in practice based on their horde system. they had very similar traditions to the mongols, such as focus on cavalry, hunting as a military practice, importing slaves after war, and having a khan (until they "switched"). the manchu soldiers didn't really have much a place to be other than living next to military posts. i doubt manchuria was urban back then
@@sinoroman Manchus were hunting and gathering tribes, not entirely nomadic nor urbanized.
correct, the manchu people were very tribal
@@sinoroman Manchu focus on heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, they did not fight like Mongols who focus on light cavalry.
Accurate,I can say as a Chinese. Very impressively accurate actually. This can be,and pretty much is the textbook. Keep up the good work, I have high expectations for you.
*Please make a video on What if Russia collapses or what if Russia wins war in ukraine completely.*
Need this
Honestly both are kinda unlikely scenarios
I think there is a reasonable chance to seeing an East and West Russia form along the Urals. East Russia as a Chinese puppet state/nuclear enabled paria state similar to North Korea, and West Russia as the majority of the population in a democratic form supported by uprising, Ukrainian/NATO support, and EU patronage.
If you start seeing unrest in the West, it isn't a hard sell to imagine Russian leaders fleeing east (they're already in the Urals) and the Chinese stepping in in the east to protect economic assets (oil and gas wells), prevent unrest on the boarder, and of course avoid a western aligned country to thier North.
You might also see a few fallout states, Tartarstan, Chechnya, Dagestan form, and Kazakhstan may change its boarders a little bit by short term stabilization operations on its boarder and support to cities like Orenburg, which lead to long term gains to keep a balance between the two Russias.
You won't have to wait long for the second one, lol.
Here in russia we are certain of our victoty. After the war we will rebuild ukraine and bring cheap gas there. Then we will controll over a ⅓ of all global food supply and a big% of fertilizer production.
In the past month inflation in russia has stopped and for a week we have even expirienced deflation.
I think recently whatifalthist in part fell victim to western media shitting out ukrainian propaganda constantly.
Very informative and excellent video. I minored in East Asian Buddhist art history in college and you explained very well the differences between Indian Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism (which of course had long been separated from its original birthplace).
There's actually a very interesting book we read in one class called "The Scientific Buddha." It talks about how Westerners discovered Buddhism via Indian relics. They didn't see the mysticism or rituals of those practicing Buddhism in East Asia (or anywhere else) - they encountered texts in a country that hadn't actively practiced the religion in centuries. This led to a Western understanding of Buddhism as a "scientific" or "philosophical" worldview, a misunderstanding still maintained in our culture today. This disconnect was born out of European distaste for non-Christian religious practices. And like you said, East Asian Buddhism (primarily Mahayana) was an amalgamation of local folk religion, Buddhist deities, and everything picked up along the way.
It's also worth mentioning that high level monks were the ones reading sutras, not the average person in medieval China. Like you said, the superstitious and mystical inclinations of that society were added, and the sutras didn't matter as much and that was OK. Hopefully that makes sense LOL
Anyway, great video, if anyone is interested in the introduction of Buddhism to the West you should check out that book! There's so much to learn and I by no means am an expert, just wanted to share my thoughts on one little tidbit :-)
To further what you're saying, Buddhism is an extremely versatile religion that allows prior religious practices to continue, at least amongst the non-monks. I know a devout Buddhist who will also make offerings at Hindu temples, for eg. (He says there are also Buddhist temples to these Hindu deities but whether the temple of operated by Buddhists or Hindus hardly matters to him). Perhaps the original Buddha conceived of non-monks in an ideal Buddhist society continuing along as Hindus without much change
Great and intellectual comment but I must add some things to it that buddhism is wrongly translated by europians from Original Indian sources which provides a different view of it.
You gotta do What if the Taiping Rebellion succeeded. I know your not that much into alternate history now, but this is the TL that begs you to make it.
You know this does bring up an interesting what if scenario, where the Chinese actually saw the value of trading for steam tech and fire arms.
A steampunk, industrialized China would've been interesting.
Not introducing foreign elements were the best course of action for them. Foreign ideas, technology and trade empower local powers to destroy centralised power. That's why they don't want foreigner to come in and disrupt the social structure they have established. Their fear of foreigners meddling became reality with Taiping Rebellion and Boshin War in Japan. Conflict and evolution sounds good, but it also meant tons of bloodshed, the Chinese rulers chose peace.
You should make a video where you go in depth about your predictions for Turkey.
Turkey big chungus neo-ottomon world order 2100
@The Philosoraptor like the matrox?/??1!!1
@MR map That would be good too.
"So, don't you think this is the time for a video about Islamic civilization?"
WIAT:"How about a video about china for the 100th time?".
Fr lmao
You mad bro?
@@KerriEverlasting not mad,just disappointted
10 bucks he's going to delay the islamic civilization video until he can find a islamic history youtuber to collab with
@@ihavenojawandimustscream4681 the Al Muqqadimah guy fo sho
Dude this is amazing, first time I’ve seen a non Chinese UA-camr understand Chinese history, geopolitics, society and their overall mindset so well.
10/10
Amazing analysis, as always. I think that a new important factor is emerging in China - the litoral urban centers. Through it’s centuries, China has been a land-based power, with it’s heartland between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers. But just has the mountains, jungles, steppes and deserts have been natural barriers often controlled by foreign powers, the Sea has become one as well. As you explained, the State crushed the emergence of certain social groups, like the merchants, which in a way halted China from using the Sea for trade despite having that great opportunity. In a time, that position was occupied as well by foreigners, namely the Europeans. The trade posts that they established progressively in China’s coast were initially insignificant in the context of the Middle Empire, but with the triumph of the Western economic model in the Industrial Age, they become axis attracting Chinese economy’s center of gravity. The economic development and opportunities in the East attracted millions from the countryside and the population exploded. The trade posts in a couple of centuries developed into the great Chinese metropolises. The relative openness of these urban centers due to their trade relations with the World make them both economically and socially more liberal than the traditional heartland in the Great Plain. Hong Kong is the biggest example of this. Of course it has very unique characteristics, but it is an image of what Shangai, Guangzhou, Hangzhou or Nanking could become.
Even if the Communist regime survives this decade, I believe it won’t reach the 2040s. But by then, everything seems to indicate we will be living in a completely different world. Amazing times to be be alive, late spring of 2022.
the 'communist' regime in china is only a label, they're very similiar in many ways to the current japanese government in that its a conservative, nationalist, quasi-fascist oligarchy where the elites inherit their power and pay lip service to marxist dogma.
the only thing that might change is that they get rid of the communist label and just adopt a more purely nationalist one. but nothing else would be fundamentally different.
你在做梦吗？
I wish you live long enough to see your dream come true. But probably you won't.
Look man, I've been following you for years and love your content, specially your more recent, geopolitical analysis. But you've got to improve your editing and maybe the format of your videos. It could help you grow as a channel in every way and it would make my experience much better.
I mean, with the mic quality changes every 3 minutes and the walls of text it's already pretty messy, and we've had some minor glitches before too, but the one at min 1:43 is just too much.
I know you can do better, and you know you can do better. If you have trouble doing something about all of this, you can always hire someone to edit. But your videos are really asking for that consistency and better looks and care after years of pictures on a black background.
In any case, I hope you're doing great. Love your work, man.
He needs to hire a video editor or something bevause IDK how he misses these things.
I'd love to see a video exploring the influence neurodivergent people (Autism, ADHD, High intelligence etc.) Had.
At least as far as we could expect within a reasonable doubt.
I'd say a lot of technology was invented/improved by autistic people. Computers, microwave oven etc probably possibly wouldn't exist without autism.
As a Chinese historian, I am amazed by the factual generality and accuracy shown in your video. You are gifted at grasping the essential points of a subject you are researching on.
I want to offer my 2 cents that are not mentioned in your video. Hope they would be helpful and complementary.
* In regard to secular ethics, Confucianism is perhaps the closest ideology to Max Weber's Protestant Ethics you can find on earth.
** Both ethics adore the idea of making local people rich by hard work.
** Confucians want to make local family/clan rich and the State not that rich, while legalists want to make the State rich and local people very very poor. This conflict of visions is throughout the Chinese history in the recent 2000 years. Mao said that he is a Marxist + legalist. That's an accurate self-assessment.
** The congruence between Confucianism and Protestant Ethics is the reason why CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) regimes can be as rich as protestant nations as long as the CJK regimes adopt western democracy. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are the empirical proofs. Their economical performance is better than Catholic nations and any other type of nations (Orthodox, Hindu, Islam and whatever).
* 22:23 Actually it is controversial to say that Confucians destroy the techno aspects of China. It was Mongols (Tartars) and Manchu (Eastern Tartars. 17th century European called Manchu just as Tartars) who destroyed the techno aspects of China, because by their common sense they knew that hot weapons would be the worst enemy of their barbarian cavalries. Here is an empirical proof: Han Chinese in Ming Dynasty were crazy about western hot weapons, which were extensively used to fight against Nurhaci's Manchu army. After Manchu conquered Han China, they got rid of all hot weapons and focused on their conventional equestrian skills (弓马娴熟). Until the later 19th century, hot weapons were picked up again by Han Chinese, not Manchu's cavalries.
** 25:57 Again this is due to Manchu's conquer of China. If British people had met a Han Chinese regime in 1790, things would have been totally different. Han Chinese's reaction to western contact is very similar to Japanese's, not Mongol's and Manchu's.
** Even today, the Chinese people who are friendly to western world are mostly from south, and those who are hostile to western world are mostly from north.
* 23:33 Song dynasty got rid of serfdom (I actually mean people-bound-to-land because medieval China was not a feudal system). People in Song dynasty had the freedom of migration just like modern day Americans (and Taiwanese, but not mainland Chinese). Serfdom was restored by Mongols, then Ming dynasty inherited Mongol's serfdom policy. Russia suffered a similar fate because Golden Horde mongols/tartars bounded near 100% of their population to the land, therefore implemented an extreme form of serfdom (a totalitarian serfdom, which is different from England's partial serfdom with the presence of significant amount of freemen). In other words, Soviet Union and communist China share the same totalitarian serfdom policy from the same source -- Mongols.
As a Chinese person, what I want to say is, although some parts are not accurate, your description of ancient China is still relatively true. However, your understanding of modern China is quite superficial. The modern China you describe differs significantly from the China I live in. I hope you have the opportunity to come to China in person and take a look, to get to know the real modern China with your own eyes.🧐
There are many good points in this video but I found that your ideology influences your analysis so much that it's even contradicting the points you made in the same video. For example, you mentioned that the Chinese are inward focus, down-to-earth practical, but somehow you concluded that China is the greatest threat to the current world order. And you predict the collapse of it without any good reason.
If you could throw away ideology, there is this clear pattern in Chinese history: a chaotic waring period, a short unified regime and a long-lasting dynasty (Han, Tang, Jin, Song, Ming, Qing), then back to the chaotic waring period. No matter how you feel about the Red Dynasty, it fits into this pattern as one of the long-lasting ones. Will there be hiccups like Wang Mang, Wu Zetian etc? Probably. Will it collapse very soon? Unlikely based on the pattern.
Ray Dailo's changing world order is a great video to learn about historical patterns: ua-cam.com/video/xguam0TKMw8/v-deo.html
What the people are like and how the government acts are two very different things. Also, he’s covered the reasons China is going to collapse in other videos.
@@kokofan50 That's a binary view of society. I used to think that too but the reality is that the government is just a part of the society.
@@chaomingli6428 in another country, you might have a point. However, the CCP has imposed themselves and their ideology onto China.
Problem is, throughout all the centuries China has largely been isolated and only subject to serious outside influence via their north. Now, the world is global and any instability in any country will surely be exploited by many others. Back then even Japan couldn't exert any serious pressure on China. Now, the US can easily do it from an entire ocean away.
Looking forward to watching this with a snack and a drink. Keep the content coming your videos are always a great watch!
Great video. Summarizing 5 millennia in 30 minutes can't be easy. From the comments a day later, any mistakes made don't seem huge (can't make a determination on who's right since I haven't studied enough Chinese history for 30 years, so what I did learn is dusty & in shadows). I very much appreciate the fact that you are aware you have biases, flagging that at a couple points. Also a big thank you for including a bibliography.
I have been fascinated by China for years, glad you made this video
"It's our role to "help" China as an international community through violent means" --- WTF????
Glad I'm not the only one that thought the same way with that statement. Utterly insane.
Totally detached from reality, and that only fuels China to be the was as it is and double down.
I'm not Chinese, but I will speak my mind here.
I know Chinese history well and they would rather nuke themselves than go through another century of humiliation. Doesn't matter if it's the CCP or another government. The same foreign policy would happen. If the KMT won and ruled China we'd call it not communist China, but fascist China.
The west on the other hands hates when someone beats them at their own game and believes they must submit or be destroyed.
This is why, in my humble opinion, instead of coexisting in peace with China and learning from them we instead we will be dragged into a war with nukes and millions of deaths.
The same happened with Japan during the pacific war. Only this time it will be worse.
God help us all!
Great video, you are really good at summarizing things accuratly
How to anger a chinese:
1-Say something like "The Mandate of Heaven is BS".
2-Ask about what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989.
3-Call him a japanese.
4. Inform them that Taiwan is a free and independent country
5. Call them Wumao
6. Explain how Wing Chun is a joke martial art
7. Say Justice for Uyghurs
8. Mention the wuhan virus
@@bushy9780 9. Tell them Tibet deserves independence
Tell me you get everything you "know" about China from incorrect western sources without saying it. Imagine seriously thinking that any Chinese people care about the mandate of heaven in 2022.
Fair points on the other ones though, although that last one applies to a ton of different groups. Call a Korean Chinese or Japanese. Call a Japanese person Korean or Chinese. Call an Iranian Arab. Call an Indian a Pakistani. Call a Mongolian a Turk. None of them will like it.
Idk if Chinese civilization developed “from a single society”. As Chinese expanded they modified their customs with those of the newly sinicised population, and in the tang dynasty the ruling elite had heavy turkic influence. Only after the tang did china suddenly become obsessed with the concept of Han purity
I mean the idea of ethnic han at the time was just “Chinese” to them. Also the tang dynasty’s ruling dynasty really weren't that influenced by there Turkic side. While taizong did once use his connections to ally with the xianbei and was partially Turkic. If you were paternally han Chinese he was basically considered han Chinese.
@@jmhsieh7103 I don’t really disagree that the Tang firmly considered themselves as Han, just that Chinese civilization borrowed a great deal from foreign influences as it constructed itself
@@gamerdude116 oh alr
As soon as I wonder about China, such a class channel
All the understanding civilizations videos on this channel are great. I always love getting to watch them!
The Yellow River civilization is the start of the Chinese Civilization with out a shadow of a doubt It has generally been accepted that the Chinese 'Cradle of Civilization' is the Yellow River Valley which gave rise to villages sometime around 5000 BCE.
While this has been disputed, and arguments have been made for the more widespread development of communities, there is no doubt that the Henan province, in the Yellow River Valley, was the site of many early villages and farming communities.
You have finally used your sharp-mind and analytical style to praise a non-Western/ proto-civilisation!
And apart from some reasonable oversimplications that you yourself reference, I think you've really promoted a solid snd accurate insight into Chinese civilisation, and one of the best insights that a westerner has contributed.
I am both Chinese and Western and I think it's hard for European / Western people to understand the sheer power of the idea of 'collective / filial unity' that trumps individual freedom.
You really nailed that from a cultural and historic perspective. Chinese people favour collective and familial unity because historically these ideas dominated the society and was reinforced by the pressures of maintaining a massive population which in turn was reinforced by the concepts of Sino-culture.
Sino-culture then reflexively reinforced the the society to drive to conserve this due to the benefits it brought.
It would be like if the Romans never left Rome... no Western Christendom... but a constant ethnic and cultural renewal.
Yes you can say that Medieval Christendom, in particular Byzantine culture and lster Italian Renaissance culture attempted renewal but alas there were far too many cultural differences and its more of an evolution or homage.
True Chinese society was reinforced by barbarian or Chinese rulers not evolved upon, it's an introspective concept... something that would not be clear to Westerners.
Also it is clear that Rome splintered... leading to divergent cultures... China never truly splintered and was always united... due in part to historical but mainly social/cultural precious. The Sino-basin geographically and culturally wanted to assimilate due to resource pressures and this created homogeneity. Something Europe's geography and culture could never reinforce due to the North/South or East / West divided.
China has a very strong cultural and historical North / south divide but no east and west divide as well as the most ruthless and unitary continuous system of states in history....
That's China in a nutshell
0:11 "firm as a rock"
One could argue that the often catastrophic dynastic changes are comparable to the empire collapses of other civilizations, however. I also wouldn't call China firm as a rock with all the civil wars, rebellions and conquests.
This is something often discussed in historian circles and opinions on it has swayed multiple times, but today it is mostly agreed that while dynastic changes were absolutely catastrophic, and devastating, they werent civilization *ending* comparable to others in the same context.
They would inevitably happen every few hundred years on a massive scale, but in these times of turmoil, warfare and chaos revolved around the idea of *who* is to rule a re-unified China, under the same dynastic rules and traditions etc. In between these moments would be long stretches of centuries of a peaceful and flourishing dynasty (before inevitably collapsing). So while it seems like it happens *a lot* it's because they've just simply been around for a long time, while others stopped existing entirely.
In this sense, contrast to many other civilizations it is indeed "firm as a rock". In a historical context, it is as stable as one can get. As the Dynastic system was never replaced until 1900s, which would mean it stretched back to the Qin. Even during the brief Mongol rule, it was still under the Dynastic system, under a Chinese style of governing, and later the Qing (Manchu) would do the same.
Contrast this to Rome, where Byzantium is a a term specifically there to differentiate Classical Roman Empire and Medieval Roman Empires, as there was just such a stark difference between them.
Rockslides *do* happen, after all!
China as a nation, no. China as a civilisation, yes.
I am glad you are posting a lot of Chinese and Western videos in the last few months because,
If one knows his enemy, and knows himself, he shall not fear the result of a hundred battles
If u wanna talk about Cantonese history & culture lmk. I’ll reach out more formally too.
But Cantonese culture has had an outsized impact on China & the world. We take huge pride in it & the govt is actually currently trying to phase out the language.
Cantonese is also more similar to Ancient Chinese than Mandarin is.
Cantonese may be more "culturally pure" but ethnically/genetically they are not and quite the opposite.
@@GL-iv4rw Yeah, it's more due to Northern China having been raided so many times by "barbarians". Cultural assimilation doesn't just go one way, even for China.
@@GL-iv4rw Quite a lot of Vietnamese (Dainam?) heritage there.
Various Chinese dynasties, eras, millenias, periods, decades, centuries, circas, times, lines, timelines, were highly into studying within there environments, atmospheres, surroundings, terrains, spottings, and markings
0:40: I take it this is going to be your first video in a while without a single spelling mistake. 1:30: scratch that.
XD thats fcking hilarious
As a Chinese person, I’d say this video is pretty accurate. I would add that the modern day China has lost its roots due to communist takeover. China has always been a society weak on its culture part. The traditional value system based on Confucianism was modified a few times throughout history to serve dictatorial needs for emperors. I think you can vaguely divide China into two classes: the ruling class and the rest. The ruling class is in a forever power struggle among its cliques, and the rest for the most part of the history had to choose between becoming part of the ruling class or struggle to survive.
This is why I would argue that the treatise which represents Chinese thinking the most is the art of war. Many Chinese people, including myself, literally see life as something to be conquered, by whatever means necessary. This survival instinct that comes with deep insecurity of becoming inferior to my environment is what keeps me going on a daily basis.
"The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Chinese saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Chinese; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"
- Mark Twain
The Zhou dynasty wasn’t Turkic.
I'm really into the videos about Asia that isn't full of woke bs and caked with realism and fact. I feel we all need to hear this so thank you
The unbroken history of china (regardless of any other issues) is truly stunning. As an American its hard to comprehend 500 years of history let alone 5000 years.
周人不是突厥人，周人和古羌人关系很近，古羌人是中国汉人 藏人 羌人以及缅甸缅族人的祖先，语言都属于汉藏语系
I saw somewhere on an r/askhistorians thread on why Europe surpassed Asia and the answerer said something along the likes of "China continued to develop at a constant or rising pace while Europe developed at a skyrocket pace at the same time".
As a Chinese myself i appreciate any opinions that take effort to look into it. So great video !
How accurate did you find his explanation of China?
@@AB-et6nj not as much as kraut's video, mostly a good high school project.
@@xiaogangdasha Thanks for the reference to Kraut's video. I would like to learn more about China but I have a hard time finding detailed and credible sources as most of what I find seems very simplistic
@@AB-et6nj yeah, im afraid so, chinese history is too long and it had a fair influence over its neighbors and the world too, the records are there but a theory put them all together is lack and ourselves dont have it too :(. i guess its up to us or future historians to interpret it more. And the interpretation of history overall probably depends on how are we view ourselves presently too.
edit intercept - interpret :)
@@xiaogangdasha Do you know any good Chinese historians (from China)?
China was influenced heavily by Indian/Indic philosophers like Siddhatha Gautama (The Buddha). Whereas, I find the influence of Chinese philosophers like Confucius have no influence on India.
Meanwhile, even Greek philosophy made inroads into India.
Interesting comment. Three major reasons- I think- (1) the Indo-European ethnic connection, and (2) the highest concentrations of civilisation in antiquity were in between Greece and India, and (3) the Himalayas…. The Sinic and Indic civilisations do meet and blend extensively in South East Asia, however.
@@vibratoryuniverse308 I agree with your observation.
Correct (3), that's why the region is often referred to as Indo-China, even though all of South East Asia (other than North Vietnam, [and even South Vietnam now as Cham people are no longer the majority, replaced after Da Viet conquests], and other pockets, falls under the Indosphere, not the Sinosphere.
I also think the Indo-European connection is the reason why majority of the Zoroastrians alive today have survived in India, instead of Iran (Persia).
not really most Chinese dont believe any religion
if you look hard enough in kerala you should find some chinese influence
@@mint8648
The Bhois of Orissa maintained minor maritime trade links with China. This is noted from the Manchu language memorials and edicts depicting contacts under the reign of Qing dynasty in China, when the Qianlong Emperor received a gift from the Brahmin (Ch. Polomen 婆羅門, Ma. Bolomen) envoy of a ruler whose Manchu name was Birakišora han of Utg’ali (Ch. Wutegali bilaqishila han 烏特噶里畢拉奇碩拉汗), who is described as a ruler in Eastern India. Hence referring to Birakisore Deva I of Khurda (1736-1793) who styled himself as Gajapati, the ruler of Utkala. Many of the gosains entering Tibet from China passed through his territory when visiting the Jagannath temple at Puri.[43]
The reign of Tipu Sultan in Mysore saw Chinese technology used for sugar production,[44] and sandalwood was exported to China.[45]
3:45 - its amazing how this chart mimics European geography. I am curious as to where “Italians” would have fallen on the chart based on the two components.
The audio around 1:42-1:43 sounds like it was unintentionally cut?
For starters, your extra villagers make you housed right at the beginning, so Dark Age is a bit tricky.
I added the bibliography
But none are CCP-approved.
Thanks for the video! Now that you've touched on China proper, could you do a video on how China's trends shaped the civilizations of the smaller states around and how/why they deviated from China's trends?
Alternate title: Man who doesn't understand Chinese civilization explains Chinese civilization
Nope. Idiot.
Original Buddhism: original nihilistic doomer 4chan
Sinic Buddhism: 4chan memes
Zen Buddhism: people tired of the memes
Thank you for talking about the Zhaou Turks! Most people today try to make them seem like they were Chinese but many sources show that they indeed were Turks! Thank You!
？
But we know they're steppe nomads. How do we know they're Turks and not Mongols or Tungusic?
Gets late for a goddamn meeting:
Well boys, it might as well be a rebellion at this point. XD
kraut video on comparing india to china was great and he came with the conclusion at the china has a strong state system with is dew to it long, complex and ancient history with makes this whole topic that more interesting to me learning about how china got to this point we need to look at it's well to be fair most places share this because history as a subject is very complex
@The Philosoraptor you should it is really good
Aren't Paks the war dogs of China against India?
Kraut is brilliant
Kraut is far better than Whatifalthist.
You have an editing error! Your video skips at 1:43 cutting off the introduction to the spread of people. I did just want to let you know, if you haven't noticed already.
The Earth Nation is a hearty people, known for endurance. - Uncle Iroh.
Civilization videos are my favorites @whatifalthist ♥
Your videos are incredible! Thank you!
It might be wrong to blame Confucianism for preventing social progress in China. The real reason might be that the interpretation of Confucianism is controlled and manipulated by the state since Han Dynasty, becoming more authoritarian, focusing more on loyalty and obedience.
WHATIFALTHIST WHERE YOU BEEN
I find it fascinating that most religions were formed at the same time period.
Man I love this channel. Already know I’m gonna enjoy this video