It broke my heart when Charlie confesses to Tori that he feels like he deserves Ben's abuse, and that everyone would be better off if he didn't exist. Sadly, many bullying victims do feel that way, and internalise the abuse.
@notville_ Why don't you consider this: WHY in the name of everything that's dear would anyone CHOOSE to subject themselves to the homophobia, abuse, bullying and threats that LGBTQ+ people still have to endure to this day? That's right, I bet you anything NO ONE WOULD IF IT WAS A CHOICE. IT. IS. NOT. A. CHOICE.
i love love love that nick doesn't tell charlie to stop - he says "do you still do that now?" and then "can you promise to tell me if it ever gets that bad again". He knows he can't get charlie to promise to never self harm again, that it's not entirely under charlie's control. he knows that pressure wouldnt help, and he's not setting charlie up to feel guilty if he does relapse, he just truly wants to be there for him and to support him when charlie needs it and i think it was genuinely the perfect response
There's a speech Nick's mum gives in volume 4 of the books about how to help people that I REALLY hope they give to Olivia Coleman in season 3. She'll nail it.
A minor correction to your great exposition of this beautiful scene. Nick says, "Do you still do that now?" and Charlie shakes his head, no. As an actor myself, I am floored at the skill of these two wonderful young actors. As you know Kit has a fair amount of acting credits but this is Joe's first large scale gig. And they both knock it out of the park. I cannot help tearing up at this scene no matter how many times I have seen it.
Season 3 of Heartstopper (based on where the comics go) will focus a lot of Charlie’s bumpy path to healing. And how Nick can help, but also the limits of what he can do
I was regularly called gay, bullied, and generally made to feel miserable **_solely_** because I was interested in reading books inside in the A/C instead dying of heat stroke every day in Houston. After about 6-7 years of being told how terrible I was, while I told myself that I had brushed that hate off at the time and that it didn't affect me, it _very much_ lingered out of sight behind my defensive emotional perimeter. It wasn't until my early 30's that I was able to even _begin_ to rub that stain off my soul after finding a healthy community that I was able to matriculate into, with the cruelest irony being that my bullies were in a sense actually correct on one thing, I _was_ gay, but by that point their damage had been done and I was left with extricating self-worth and personal-value from a thing that I now knew myself to be which was...._not fun_.
It's worth noting that it may be hard to hear, but Nick doesn't say "please don't do it now." if you see the captions it says "do you still do it now?" I think it's an important distinction. I also think they need to give Joe and Kit every award for this scene alone. Incredible, incredible and important show.
I agree that it’s an important difference. “Please don’t do that now” would put pressure on Charlie and force him to promise things that he doesn’t entirely have control over. Nick does the exact opposite by listening and taking in all important information, and then simply asking him to tell Nick if he ever feels like that again. It’s such a perfect reaction and it’s so heartwarming to see.
I've watched the scene in German and I can't tell you how much I cringed at the fact that they went for _exactly that_ in that dub... "Bitte mach das nicht mehr" "Please don't do it anymore" like NO the original word choice was very carefully made, _why_ do you have to twist it?? Would have been very simple to go for "Machst du das noch?" "Do you still do it?" but no 🙄 Yeah yeah it's a request, not a command, and there's "please" and all that but NO YOU'RE DOING NICK DIRTY, NO JUST- NO
I love this scene it is done so accurately! for me I view what Charlie says about SH is not just about a way to deal with the extent of the homophobia to transfer and direct the pain somewhere and how it created self-loathing, but also, as another form of control. He was getting so much directed homophobic assault and pain and he needed to have some control over the amount of pain he was given so he controlled where to direct it. Just like his ED is connected to the homophobia and relationship with ben and was a way to have some form of control so can SH be a form of control
I wish you all the best and hope you find a way through this. And I'm really sorry you had to go through this, you did NOT deserve even a single second of this!
@darthmemewalker2807 As a fellow bullying and abuse survivor, they're right, fam. 🤗 You're really so much stronger, so much _more_ than you know, even though you don't feel it right now. I still feel the effects of what happened to me as a child and I'm only a few weeks from being 40, but it does get better with the right support. Something that helped me was learning about the Japanese art of kintsugi. It's a beautiful practice and I really recommend checking it out.
The "can you promise to tell me?" is the part that broke me. There is so much shame already, and being told to promise not to do that anymore just adds to the pain when you "mess up" again. The thing I needed the most was someone who would be there without shaming me more than I already was myself. This was so beautiful.
Bless you for this video. As a lesbian, I am LOVING your heartstopper videos, but also as someone who has suffered immensely in the past from depression and self-harm, this video is so important. Thank you for trying to reduce the stigma and for teaching people how to navigate pain with others, how to help. We need more people like you out there.❤️
I'm so sorry for all the bullying you've gone through. One of the major hurts of bullying is to hold it in and pretend it doesn't hurt. Real men don't cry. Being bullied is perceived as being a failed human being. In a class once in junior high, a couple of schoolmates were tormenting me. I laid my head and sobbed. I kept berating myself, "Stop crying! Stop crying!" I felt like a total failure for crying. I wonder how many bullied kids are bullied at home as well. Who do you go with your pain, especially when you are the failure? I remember my 11th grade history teacher who was fabulous asking who had someone they could confide in. I was the only one who didn't raise his hand. Of course, I felt humiliated by that, too. Many times, it's a vicious circle of needing love and protection and being alone in all of it. Could you do more on this?
Self-harm is so real. It's been six years since that sexual abuse and when I had suicidal ideation. I just wanted the pain to stop. Every day, I was constantly living on the edge. And until now, I'm still in the process of healing. As a gay man, I love that Heartstopper brings bullying and its effects to the LGBTQIA+ community on screen. Bullying can cause mental illness, so this should be stopped.
I was bullied from basically 1. grade to 10. Both in school and in general society nothing physical all mental. Still affected today. Bullying destroying life. And "its just a joke", "its humour" etc could you kindly stop with that.
id also like to note self harm isn't always physical but can be mental as well. doing thing you know will hurt you because you think you deserve it or as a since of control. it also doesn't have to be direct like cutting, but could be scratching till you bleed, isolating yourself for long periods, overworking yourself, surrounding yourself with toxic people. anything that hurts you in any way, doing it because it hurts and you feel you deserve it or it puts you in control of something, anything.
6:29 Oke, I really wanted to talk about this specific aspect of this scene (because I think this is one of the most powerful scenes of both show and comic). First of all, Nick didn't say "Please don't do that now" as I think you understood during the video (it is pretty hard to hear because they really try to show a real conversation and not make it more understandable "because it is a show"). In reality he asked "Do you still do that now?" and in the show Charlie answers with a simple "No". That is a great scene... ...BUT I think the comic does something even more real and sad here: Nick asks the same question but Charlie while first also answering with "No" after thinking about it (he wants to be completely honest with Nick) adds "I mean - hardly ever". I think this accomplishes two things that make this even more real and emotional than the show: 1. It really shows how special Nick is to Charlie, that he could have said "No" and left it there but he corrected himself to tell the whole truth 2. It is really hard to stop with something once you started it and I do believe (I have no personal experience or know somebody nor am I a trained in this) that this includes cutting or other coping-mechanisms. And even if the bullying has stopped Charlie still has a lot to deal with in his life (normal teenage-stuff like school-stress, his Eating-Disorder, still being a bit traumatised because of bullying, ...) and I do believe that it can get too much for him at times which could prompt him to go back to his old habits of dealing with stress at some point If anyone wants to see the exact scene from the comics to compare it (or just as extra information), here are the panels on Tapas: tapas.io/episode/1283094 Just as a heads up, this scene plays out in a different context WAY earlier in the story so some things might be a bit different (for example how the scene actually starts)
When I was in grad school I reached a low point where I was considering unaliving myself. I reached out to a trusted teacher and he immediately offered to drive me to a hospital. That’s the last thing I wanted to hear in that moment. I disengaged completely and left the conversation feeling even more alone. I think he felt out of his depth and just panicked, but in that moment it felt to me like “I don’t want to deal with this so let me dump you at a hospital and you can be someone else’s problem.” Looking back on it, I think what I wanted to hear most was “I care, you matter, I’m here for you, what does support look like for you right now.” Literally just being present and listening with compassion is what most people want.
The best part of the way Nick reacted was that he didn't try to make Charlie promise to never hurt himself again, he asked him to promise to tell him if he felt that bad again. It's unrealistic and kind of manipulative to try to make someone who is in enough pain that they're hurting themself on purpose to promise to stop entirely, relapses happen, and it's a coping mechanism for a reason, you need to address whatever is causing that person to feel that badly. Nick knows he can't "fix" Charlie, and he knows Charlie doesn't want him to, either, but he needs his support and love, and that's exactly what Nick does for him. That's the best kind of support someone can give, just be there to listen, and if we ask for help, give it as best you can.
Completely agree! That sentence made my heart melt in a way that I can’t describe. It’s such a perfect reaction and I wish that everyone could get this response when they tell someone about their SH.
I actually think you misheard a significant line. When nick hugs Charlie and responds to his confession of self harm. He doesn’t say: “please don’t do that now” Nick asks: “DO you still do that now?” (And Charlie says “no”) And the distinction is significant. Because asking him to stop adds a lot of pressure and judgement and feeling of shame if you do it again. Instead he asks Charlie to promise to tell him when he’s feeling like that. Showing that the love and care he has for Charlie isn’t conditional on him stopping this behavior. He’s expressing that he cares. That he’s there for him. That he doesn’t want him to go through it alone. And I love that. Ultimately it is a better approach to reducing shame which will help him stop the self destructive behavior
One thing I really hope you could answer in one of your videos is WHY self-harm is so looked down upon by therapists and doctors. Using matches not only dulls the pain, but it also helps in re-gaining control when the suicide thoughts become too much to handle. I'd probably be dead now if it wasn't for that. Still health care views it as a contra-indicator (is that what you call it? I just translated the both halfs of the word), so that we get denied therapy until we can stop with that. I just don't understand why I should be punished for that. To me it's like blaming someone for taking pain killers instead of eliminating the disease that causes the pain in the first place.
As someone who was bullied horrifically from grade school until halfway through high school, this resonated with me so much. While one can heal from it with the right support, it’s an experience one doesn’t get over it 100%. Growing up, people would always say “ignore the bullying” or something similar. Personal experience demonstrates it doesn’t work-if anything, it gives MORE incentive for the bullying to continue (possibly get worse). Anyway, this really spoke to me. Thank you.
My brother took his life when I was 10 and he was 12, so I often talk with my kids about what suicidal thoughts are and how we respond to them. I've always taught them that they are dark thoughts, no bad, dark because it tells them that they need to talk to someone about their feelings so that they can have support and help. I've told them many times that even if they feel they can't talk to me, they should always find a trusted adult or friend who will listen. We've been really lucky so far in the fact that none of my kids (ages 7-15) have experienced suicidal thoughts, despite the fact that it runs on both sides of the family. My therapist told me it's because I have open communication with my kids and listen to them, very much in the way Nick just listens to Charlie. He doesn't judge him. He doesn't tell him that what he did was wrong. He just gives him love and encouragement, which is what Charlie needs in that moment. You actually reminded me of my therapist Jon, so thank you. It's one of the reasons I follow you on both channels.
Between the ages of 10 to 15 I suffer a lot of bullying at school, to the point I started to believe I didn't deserve to be alive. Like Charlie I understand what is like to be told you're worthless so many times you start to belive. I'm 28 now and that pain still lingers
I was bullied in middle school for my skin disease, people told me I'm ugly, that I need to isolate myself so no one catches my disease and that I'm disgusting. 6 years later, I still can't forget or forgive that.
You don't need to forgive it. Some people will say that you need to do it to "let it go" or whatever, but choosing to move beyond those horrible people and live a good life regardless of their existence isn't forgiveness. That's a separate thing that only you can and should be able to decide. Also, the vast majority of humans are insufferably shallow morons. Yes, yes, we're visual creatures and all that jazz, but we're a little past the Unga Bunga stage by now, aren't we?
WaaoO !!! Jono ... This channel is SOOO IMPORTANT !!! Thank you !!! Something else; I would Love if you and Alicia made a series on the different types of sexuality. - Like I'd never heard my sexuality mentioned before I heard you call it *Demisexuality*. Of course I've described it for others before. But I didn't know it actually had a name. I thought it was 'just me' or a general difference between women and men - a quite frustrating one !!! Thank You Beforehand from Anja (Anya) in Copenhagen, Denmark, Scandinavia - Europe 💙🌍💙🌏💙🌎💙
I was watching some others react to Heartstopper Season 2. Do you feel, as a therapist, that these characters are unnaturally mature for their age? That it would take a typical person years of therapy or training to be able to say the things they say? Because it's fiction, it's OK for them to be super perfect in this way, because it gives a model for how one COULD behave, but is it realistic to expect your real life teenage friends to be this insightful and compassionate, let alone mature adults.
A lot of people have the misguided, old-fashioned notion that suffering builds character. One thing I love about this show is, it disproves the idea and presents an alternative. We get a taste of how much the bullying has messed up Charlie, and we see how it’s actually the healing process and his incredible support system that helps him build character.
I wish I had seen this video a couple of years back. When I was vistiting my parents Home, I saw my little sister while washing hands in the bathroom and she was wearing a t-shirt so I saw her arms. I saw scars on her wrist upwards. She had tried *writing*: „13 reasons why“ into her skin. I was completely overwhealmed and even tried to joke about it, since the show had spoken to me too… Later I told my parents and dont even remember how they reacted. They had no real idea what to do either … I wish I had known how to help her back then and had had the emotional resources to check in on her more regularly. She‘s doing better now but I still wonder what could have been different if I would have known better how to support her…
I never learned how to handle my bullying and my parents didn’t seem to know how to support me as a child. I’m terrified of my children being bullied and me not knowing how to handle it. I appreciate this video as I don’t want my kids to experience the intense heartache and self consciousness that happened to me, right now they’re nearly 3 and 5 and they are little sunflowers in my life. My daughter is shy and I worry that she will deal with bullying as a result just like I did and I don’t want to see her spirit get crushed the way I felt so underwater in those years.
I've been tormented by bullies during most of my school years and have self-harmed too. But for me these two have not been directly related. The self harm came with depression, and eating disorders. At universitiy I had a very close friend (for the first time in my life). I am ace, so it's hard to define. He felt like a soulmate almost... anyway, we were emotionally very close and about each others struggles and "dark secrets".(he had some mental health struggles too, so he just understood) He was the first person who did not judge me for my eating disorder. He knew abot my self harming too (damn, makes me tear up to remember him, and having such a good friend...) He would just hold me sometimes, or I him, or we both just each other when we were hurting. That one time, it was around midnight, I had cut myself quite deeply in a very bad moment. No suicidal intent, just fierce despair while putting on the knife. I could not stop the bleeding, and, starting to panick, I called him. I apologized immediately, because of course at that time I had woken him up. He told me it was good to call him, he was not angry, stayed calm, and guided me on the phone to do some first aid on the wound, get dressed and take the bus to the emergency room. He stayed on the phone until I entered the bus. The next day he came to check on me, and kept an eye on the healing of the wound too. I miss him.... I feel like I never deserved him and his kindness and at the same time I know that I was lucky to know him at all. I still just can't understand how and why he could be so accepting and good to me. FOr what happened, my health and financial and family situation just kept going worse and I had to stop my studies, which meant to return home. We stayed in contact via e-mail for quite some time and saw each other a few times too, but our lives went on and some day we lost contact. I am not mad at him (he was the not answering a last mail), not in the least. As I said, I never deserved him AND he had his own struggles too. He had to look after himself and I would never want to be yet another sourde of worries for him. Becuase I know he would have liked to help me, which was impossible and not his duty.
I love this scene because I have a friend who I provide quite a lot of emotional support to for mental health, bullying and such (they do the same for me) and it shows me what I can do to help the most.
Schools need more in place to support those being bullied, and education towards those bullying, its a big issue that is not being faced. Also when adults are bullying other adults, something newds to be in place much better. Im glad Heartstopper wants to tackle the realities of life, so none of us feel alone ❤
In my experience and observations, bullying is fundamentally about finding boundaries. The person, or persons, is attempting to find out the limits of their power. Bullying behavior tends to end, or at least decrease, once the bully is shown the limits of their power.
I will always do what I can to help people who have experienced loss, abuse, or are going through something and need someone to look out for them. I will always be there, I will always look out for you
The story about needing support after someone close died and few people knew how to deal with the person left behind, reminded me of an anecdote. We had a gathering from colleagues, not sure of the occasion, and we would see a colleague that had been absent for a while and we knew that his health had taken a turn for the worst. We were never given any details but knew that his time left was measured in weeks, months at best but certainly not years. One of my younger colleagues, who often turned to me for guidance, told me in confidence that he didn't know what to say. It forced me to think about it and told him to just say the usual hello, how are you. If he wanted to talk about it, fine, lend him an ear and if he didn't, just chitchat. The odd thing is, the younger colleague asking, made me think about it and helped me as well... that has been my attitude since then: signaling I'm available to listen and further, just try to interact as normal as possible. The latter came also from personal experience. Sometimes, after my mum died, I just wanted a normal conversation. Not about dead or loss but normal everyday things.
It's hard for me to reach out for help. The bullying i've experienced makes me lean into people pleasing and then shame and fear when I need help with something.
I think he relates to a lot of what Charlie's gone through. I've seen many reactions this scene, and most of them involve some level of tears. 😢 Same, tbh. It's a rough one, especially if you've been through something similar. I've not SHed myself, but I have been through bullying and my youngest sister used to cut like Charlie, so I get it in a way.
@@narliehs1648 I am so sorry that you, your sister, Jono and so many others have been through that, all of you truly deserve better, and I'm proud of you for living to fight for better days. And I swear to always stand up for and protect people like you and show them that they are loved dearly by someone, even if it is just one person. I swear to stand by people people like you who need it most
@@narliehs1648 And thank you so much for being brave and sharing that. I have a song recommendation for you it's: STILL BREATHING by Citizen Soldier it's a song for people like you who kept fighting with hope and persistence, who found the strength to live for better days May the Lord be with you all🥰💕🥹
I think this video will get more views if you put a screenshot from the scene where Charlie talks to nick about his experience with bullying + a shot of Jono. The thumbnail right now isn’t going to attract many views because it doesn’t show the scene you’re reacting to
Someone told me once that he was self harming. I did panic. He was my friend and I could for the life of me find anything to say. So I started crying. It was harrowing. Truly terrifying.
What a beautiful analysis. Thank you for this! I can tell you must be a really exceptional therapist. This scene is so gorgeously written, and so gorgeously ACTED! I've watched it multiple times now, and it just blows me away.
I'm blessed with lots of awesome 🏳️🌈🟤⚫ friends and often have "strays" around the holidays, and my mom always welcomed them for holiday dinners when she lived up here. No one left without having laughed and smiled so much their face hurt (and a few dog hairs 🐶). It was what we could do, and I could brag about mom's cooking with more and more witnesses to back me up 🥰
It broke my heart when Charlie confesses to Tori that he feels like he deserves Ben's abuse, and that everyone would be better off if he didn't exist. Sadly, many bullying victims do feel that way, and internalise the abuse.
I understand how he felt perfectly
That's one felt close to home. I said that to myself so many times when I was a teenager.
@notville_ what does that have to do with anything
@notville_ Why don't you consider this: WHY in the name of everything that's dear would anyone CHOOSE to subject themselves to the homophobia, abuse, bullying and threats that LGBTQ+ people still have to endure to this day? That's right, I bet you anything NO ONE WOULD IF IT WAS A CHOICE. IT. IS. NOT. A. CHOICE.
@NotVille_You again? Get over yourself, douche canoe. 🙄
i love love love that nick doesn't tell charlie to stop - he says "do you still do that now?" and then "can you promise to tell me if it ever gets that bad again". He knows he can't get charlie to promise to never self harm again, that it's not entirely under charlie's control. he knows that pressure wouldnt help, and he's not setting charlie up to feel guilty if he does relapse, he just truly wants to be there for him and to support him when charlie needs it and i think it was genuinely the perfect response
There's a speech Nick's mum gives in volume 4 of the books about how to help people that I REALLY hope they give to Olivia Coleman in season 3. She'll nail it.
i know exactly what you’re talking about and that scene will break me
I can't imagine a world where they don't give Coleman that speech
@@fluffisacoolword me too
That speech will be a shining moment for season 3 and we will get to see just how much Sarah not only cares for Nick but also Charlie
Even if it's gonna utterly wreck me they just CAN'T NOT give it to her!
A minor correction to your great exposition of this beautiful scene. Nick says, "Do you still do that now?" and Charlie shakes his head, no. As an actor myself, I am floored at the skill of these two wonderful young actors. As you know Kit has a fair amount of acting credits but this is Joe's first large scale gig. And they both knock it out of the park. I cannot help tearing up at this scene no matter how many times I have seen it.
I can’t begin to tell you how much this show would have helped me if it existed 40 years ago when I was in school.
Same!
Season 3 of Heartstopper (based on where the comics go) will focus a lot of Charlie’s bumpy path to healing. And how Nick can help, but also the limits of what he can do
I was regularly called gay, bullied, and generally made to feel miserable **_solely_** because I was interested in reading books inside in the A/C instead dying of heat stroke every day in Houston. After about 6-7 years of being told how terrible I was, while I told myself that I had brushed that hate off at the time and that it didn't affect me, it _very much_ lingered out of sight behind my defensive emotional perimeter. It wasn't until my early 30's that I was able to even _begin_ to rub that stain off my soul after finding a healthy community that I was able to matriculate into, with the cruelest irony being that my bullies were in a sense actually correct on one thing, I _was_ gay, but by that point their damage had been done and I was left with extricating self-worth and personal-value from a thing that I now knew myself to be which was...._not fun_.
It's worth noting that it may be hard to hear, but Nick doesn't say "please don't do it now." if you see the captions it says "do you still do it now?" I think it's an important distinction. I also think they need to give Joe and Kit every award for this scene alone. Incredible, incredible and important show.
I agree that it’s an important difference.
“Please don’t do that now” would put pressure on Charlie and force him to promise things that he doesn’t entirely have control over. Nick does the exact opposite by listening and taking in all important information, and then simply asking him to tell Nick if he ever feels like that again. It’s such a perfect reaction and it’s so heartwarming to see.
I've watched the scene in German and I can't tell you how much I cringed at the fact that they went for _exactly that_ in that dub... "Bitte mach das nicht mehr" "Please don't do it anymore" like NO the original word choice was very carefully made, _why_ do you have to twist it?? Would have been very simple to go for "Machst du das noch?" "Do you still do it?" but no 🙄 Yeah yeah it's a request, not a command, and there's "please" and all that but NO YOU'RE DOING NICK DIRTY, NO JUST- NO
I love this scene it is done so accurately! for me I view what Charlie says about SH is not just about a way to deal with the extent of the homophobia to transfer and direct the pain somewhere and how it created self-loathing, but also, as another form of control. He was getting so much directed homophobic assault and pain and he needed to have some control over the amount of pain he was given so he controlled where to direct it. Just like his ED is connected to the homophobia and relationship with ben and was a way to have some form of control so can SH be a form of control
In middle school, I got bullied horrendously, 8 years later, I still have not gotten over it
aww, i'm so sorry :( that's horrible
@@funfings842thank you
I wish you all the best and hope you find a way through this.
And I'm really sorry you had to go through this, you did NOT deserve even a single second of this!
@michanone agree to disagree but thank you
@darthmemewalker2807 As a fellow bullying and abuse survivor, they're right, fam. 🤗 You're really so much stronger, so much _more_ than you know, even though you don't feel it right now. I still feel the effects of what happened to me as a child and I'm only a few weeks from being 40, but it does get better with the right support. Something that helped me was learning about the Japanese art of kintsugi. It's a beautiful practice and I really recommend checking it out.
The "can you promise to tell me?" is the part that broke me. There is so much shame already, and being told to promise not to do that anymore just adds to the pain when you "mess up" again. The thing I needed the most was someone who would be there without shaming me more than I already was myself. This was so beautiful.
Bless you for this video. As a lesbian, I am LOVING your heartstopper videos, but also as someone who has suffered immensely in the past from depression and self-harm, this video is so important. Thank you for trying to reduce the stigma and for teaching people how to navigate pain with others, how to help. We need more people like you out there.❤️
I love heartstopper, it's so adorable and fluffy and yet hits so hard. These young actors are astounding ❤
I'm so sorry for all the bullying you've gone through.
One of the major hurts of bullying is to hold it in and pretend it doesn't hurt. Real men don't cry. Being bullied is perceived as being a failed human being. In a class once in junior high, a couple of schoolmates were tormenting me. I laid my head and sobbed. I kept berating myself, "Stop crying! Stop crying!" I felt like a total failure for crying.
I wonder how many bullied kids are bullied at home as well. Who do you go with your pain, especially when you are the failure? I remember my 11th grade history teacher who was fabulous asking who had someone they could confide in. I was the only one who didn't raise his hand. Of course, I felt humiliated by that, too. Many times, it's a vicious circle of needing love and protection and being alone in all of it.
Could you do more on this?
For the TW: the self-harm talk starts at 4:40 and ends around 7:58
Self-harm is so real. It's been six years since that sexual abuse and when I had suicidal ideation. I just wanted the pain to stop. Every day, I was constantly living on the edge. And until now, I'm still in the process of healing.
As a gay man, I love that Heartstopper brings bullying and its effects to the LGBTQIA+ community on screen. Bullying can cause mental illness, so this should be stopped.
I was bullied from basically 1. grade to 10. Both in school and in general society nothing physical all mental. Still affected today. Bullying destroying life. And "its just a joke", "its humour" etc could you kindly stop with that.
id also like to note self harm isn't always physical but can be mental as well. doing thing you know will hurt you because you think you deserve it or as a since of control. it also doesn't have to be direct like cutting, but could be scratching till you bleed, isolating yourself for long periods, overworking yourself, surrounding yourself with toxic people. anything that hurts you in any way, doing it because it hurts and you feel you deserve it or it puts you in control of something, anything.
6:29 Oke, I really wanted to talk about this specific aspect of this scene (because I think this is one of the most powerful scenes of both show and comic).
First of all, Nick didn't say "Please don't do that now" as I think you understood during the video (it is pretty hard to hear because they really try to show a real conversation and not make it more understandable "because it is a show"). In reality he asked "Do you still do that now?" and in the show Charlie answers with a simple "No". That is a great scene...
...BUT I think the comic does something even more real and sad here: Nick asks the same question but Charlie while first also answering with "No" after thinking about it (he wants to be completely honest with Nick) adds "I mean - hardly ever".
I think this accomplishes two things that make this even more real and emotional than the show:
1. It really shows how special Nick is to Charlie, that he could have said "No" and left it there but he corrected himself to tell the whole truth
2. It is really hard to stop with something once you started it and I do believe (I have no personal experience or know somebody nor am I a trained in this) that this includes cutting or other coping-mechanisms. And even if the bullying has stopped Charlie still has a lot to deal with in his life (normal teenage-stuff like school-stress, his Eating-Disorder, still being a bit traumatised because of bullying, ...) and I do believe that it can get too much for him at times which could prompt him to go back to his old habits of dealing with stress at some point
If anyone wants to see the exact scene from the comics to compare it (or just as extra information), here are the panels on Tapas: tapas.io/episode/1283094
Just as a heads up, this scene plays out in a different context WAY earlier in the story so some things might be a bit different (for example how the scene actually starts)
When I was in grad school I reached a low point where I was considering unaliving myself. I reached out to a trusted teacher and he immediately offered to drive me to a hospital. That’s the last thing I wanted to hear in that moment. I disengaged completely and left the conversation feeling even more alone. I think he felt out of his depth and just panicked, but in that moment it felt to me like “I don’t want to deal with this so let me dump you at a hospital and you can be someone else’s problem.”
Looking back on it, I think what I wanted to hear most was “I care, you matter, I’m here for you, what does support look like for you right now.” Literally just being present and listening with compassion is what most people want.
The best part of the way Nick reacted was that he didn't try to make Charlie promise to never hurt himself again, he asked him to promise to tell him if he felt that bad again. It's unrealistic and kind of manipulative to try to make someone who is in enough pain that they're hurting themself on purpose to promise to stop entirely, relapses happen, and it's a coping mechanism for a reason, you need to address whatever is causing that person to feel that badly. Nick knows he can't "fix" Charlie, and he knows Charlie doesn't want him to, either, but he needs his support and love, and that's exactly what Nick does for him. That's the best kind of support someone can give, just be there to listen, and if we ask for help, give it as best you can.
Completely agree! That sentence made my heart melt in a way that I can’t describe. It’s such a perfect reaction and I wish that everyone could get this response when they tell someone about their SH.
I actually think you misheard a significant line.
When nick hugs Charlie and responds to his confession of self harm.
He doesn’t say: “please don’t do that now”
Nick asks: “DO you still do that now?”
(And Charlie says “no”)
And the distinction is significant. Because asking him to stop adds a lot of pressure and judgement and feeling of shame if you do it again. Instead he asks Charlie to promise to tell him when he’s feeling like that. Showing that the love and care he has for Charlie isn’t conditional on him stopping this behavior. He’s expressing that he cares. That he’s there for him. That he doesn’t want him to go through it alone.
And I love that. Ultimately it is a better approach to reducing shame which will help him stop the self destructive behavior
One thing I really hope you could answer in one of your videos is WHY self-harm is so looked down upon by therapists and doctors. Using matches not only dulls the pain, but it also helps in re-gaining control when the suicide thoughts become too much to handle. I'd probably be dead now if it wasn't for that. Still health care views it as a contra-indicator (is that what you call it? I just translated the both halfs of the word), so that we get denied therapy until we can stop with that. I just don't understand why I should be punished for that. To me it's like blaming someone for taking pain killers instead of eliminating the disease that causes the pain in the first place.
As someone who was bullied horrifically from grade school until halfway through high school, this resonated with me so much. While one can heal from it with the right support, it’s an experience one doesn’t get over it 100%.
Growing up, people would always say “ignore the bullying” or something similar. Personal experience demonstrates it doesn’t work-if anything, it gives MORE incentive for the bullying to continue (possibly get worse).
Anyway, this really spoke to me. Thank you.
This show means just so gosh darn much to me.
My brother took his life when I was 10 and he was 12, so I often talk with my kids about what suicidal thoughts are and how we respond to them. I've always taught them that they are dark thoughts, no bad, dark because it tells them that they need to talk to someone about their feelings so that they can have support and help. I've told them many times that even if they feel they can't talk to me, they should always find a trusted adult or friend who will listen. We've been really lucky so far in the fact that none of my kids (ages 7-15) have experienced suicidal thoughts, despite the fact that it runs on both sides of the family. My therapist told me it's because I have open communication with my kids and listen to them, very much in the way Nick just listens to Charlie. He doesn't judge him. He doesn't tell him that what he did was wrong. He just gives him love and encouragement, which is what Charlie needs in that moment. You actually reminded me of my therapist Jon, so thank you. It's one of the reasons I follow you on both channels.
What a blessing that you've turned the pain of loss into thoughtful, compassionate parenting! Your kids are so lucky to have you!
❤🙏
Between the ages of 10 to 15 I suffer a lot of bullying at school, to the point I started to believe I didn't deserve to be alive. Like Charlie I understand what is like to be told you're worthless so many times you start to belive.
I'm 28 now and that pain still lingers
I was bullied in middle school for my skin disease, people told me I'm ugly, that I need to isolate myself so no one catches my disease and that I'm disgusting. 6 years later, I still can't forget or forgive that.
❤🙏
I'm sorry for your pain. You don't deserve it.
You don't need to forgive it. Some people will say that you need to do it to "let it go" or whatever, but choosing to move beyond those horrible people and live a good life regardless of their existence isn't forgiveness. That's a separate thing that only you can and should be able to decide.
Also, the vast majority of humans are insufferably shallow morons. Yes, yes, we're visual creatures and all that jazz, but we're a little past the Unga Bunga stage by now, aren't we?
WaaoO !!! Jono ... This channel is SOOO IMPORTANT !!! Thank you !!!
Something else; I would Love if you and Alicia made a series on the different types of sexuality.
- Like I'd never heard my sexuality mentioned before I heard you call it *Demisexuality*.
Of course I've described it for others before. But I didn't know it actually had a name. I thought it was 'just me' or a general difference between women and men - a quite frustrating one !!!
Thank You Beforehand from Anja (Anya) in Copenhagen, Denmark, Scandinavia - Europe
💙🌍💙🌏💙🌎💙
Thank you! We'll look into that :)
This scene breaks my heart soo much every time😭😭😭😭
I was watching some others react to Heartstopper Season 2. Do you feel, as a therapist, that these characters are unnaturally mature for their age? That it would take a typical person years of therapy or training to be able to say the things they say? Because it's fiction, it's OK for them to be super perfect in this way, because it gives a model for how one COULD behave, but is it realistic to expect your real life teenage friends to be this insightful and compassionate, let alone mature adults.
A lot of people have the misguided, old-fashioned notion that suffering builds character. One thing I love about this show is, it disproves the idea and presents an alternative. We get a taste of how much the bullying has messed up Charlie, and we see how it’s actually the healing process and his incredible support system that helps him build character.
I wish I had seen this video a couple of years back. When I was vistiting my parents Home, I saw my little sister while washing hands in the bathroom and she was wearing a t-shirt so I saw her arms. I saw scars on her wrist upwards. She had tried *writing*: „13 reasons why“ into her skin. I was completely overwhealmed and even tried to joke about it, since the show had spoken to me too… Later I told my parents and dont even remember how they reacted. They had no real idea what to do either …
I wish I had known how to help her back then and had had the emotional resources to check in on her more regularly. She‘s doing better now but I still wonder what could have been different if I would have known better how to support her…
These ‘Heartstopper’ scenes are very powerful.
I did a research paper on this in grad school
I never learned how to handle my bullying and my parents didn’t seem to know how to support me as a child. I’m terrified of my children being bullied and me not knowing how to handle it. I appreciate this video as I don’t want my kids to experience the intense heartache and self consciousness that happened to me, right now they’re nearly 3 and 5 and they are little sunflowers in my life. My daughter is shy and I worry that she will deal with bullying as a result just like I did and I don’t want to see her spirit get crushed the way I felt so underwater in those years.
Episodes 7&8 of Season 2 of Heartstopper literally broke my heart and then mended it again. It's one of my favorite shows.
I've been tormented by bullies during most of my school years and have self-harmed too. But for me these two have not been directly related. The self harm came with depression, and eating disorders.
At universitiy I had a very close friend (for the first time in my life). I am ace, so it's hard to define. He felt like a soulmate almost... anyway, we were emotionally very close and about each others struggles and "dark secrets".(he had some mental health struggles too, so he just understood) He was the first person who did not judge me for my eating disorder. He knew abot my self harming too (damn, makes me tear up to remember him, and having such a good friend...) He would just hold me sometimes, or I him, or we both just each other when we were hurting.
That one time, it was around midnight, I had cut myself quite deeply in a very bad moment. No suicidal intent, just fierce despair while putting on the knife. I could not stop the bleeding, and, starting to panick, I called him. I apologized immediately, because of course at that time I had woken him up. He told me it was good to call him, he was not angry, stayed calm, and guided me on the phone to do some first aid on the wound, get dressed and take the bus to the emergency room. He stayed on the phone until I entered the bus. The next day he came to check on me, and kept an eye on the healing of the wound too. I miss him.... I feel like I never deserved him and his kindness and at the same time I know that I was lucky to know him at all. I still just can't understand how and why he could be so accepting and good to me.
FOr what happened, my health and financial and family situation just kept going worse and I had to stop my studies, which meant to return home. We stayed in contact via e-mail for quite some time and saw each other a few times too, but our lives went on and some day we lost contact. I am not mad at him (he was the not answering a last mail), not in the least. As I said, I never deserved him AND he had his own struggles too. He had to look after himself and I would never want to be yet another sourde of worries for him. Becuase I know he would have liked to help me, which was impossible and not his duty.
I'm not the first person to comment this I know, but I wish I had Heartstopper when I was growing up.
Could you please make another Bluey video? ❤️
Is Jonno okay atm???
I love this scene because I have a friend who I provide quite a lot of emotional support to for mental health, bullying and such (they do the same for me) and it shows me what I can do to help the most.
Schools need more in place to support those being bullied, and education towards those bullying, its a big issue that is not being faced. Also when adults are bullying other adults, something newds to be in place much better. Im glad Heartstopper wants to tackle the realities of life, so none of us feel alone ❤
Thank you for the explanation of some of the reasons for self harm. I would not do someone down for it but I've never understood why they do it.
In my experience and observations, bullying is fundamentally about finding boundaries. The person, or persons, is attempting to find out the limits of their power. Bullying behavior tends to end, or at least decrease, once the bully is shown the limits of their power.
I will always do what I can to help people who have experienced loss, abuse, or are going through something and need someone to look out for them.
I will always be there, I will always look out for you
True. The mind has a way to keep up with the score...😢 Sometimes not in the greatest of ways.
Please make a video about the TV show Fringe.
♥️🫶🏻♥️
Please make a video about the anime Mushoku Tensei.
Ew
The story about needing support after someone close died and few people knew how to deal with the person left behind, reminded me of an anecdote. We had a gathering from colleagues, not sure of the occasion, and we would see a colleague that had been absent for a while and we knew that his health had taken a turn for the worst. We were never given any details but knew that his time left was measured in weeks, months at best but certainly not years. One of my younger colleagues, who often turned to me for guidance, told me in confidence that he didn't know what to say. It forced me to think about it and told him to just say the usual hello, how are you. If he wanted to talk about it, fine, lend him an ear and if he didn't, just chitchat. The odd thing is, the younger colleague asking, made me think about it and helped me as well... that has been my attitude since then: signaling I'm available to listen and further, just try to interact as normal as possible. The latter came also from personal experience. Sometimes, after my mum died, I just wanted a normal conversation. Not about dead or loss but normal everyday things.
Would you consider talking about how being bullied affects the protagonist of Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation?
It's hard for me to reach out for help. The bullying i've experienced makes me lean into people pleasing and then shame and fear when I need help with something.
Bless your beautiful soul, Jonathan 🤍
Are you okay, Jono?
I think he relates to a lot of what Charlie's gone through. I've seen many reactions this scene, and most of them involve some level of tears. 😢 Same, tbh. It's a rough one, especially if you've been through something similar. I've not SHed myself, but I have been through bullying and my youngest sister used to cut like Charlie, so I get it in a way.
@@narliehs1648 I am so sorry that you, your sister, Jono and so many others have been through that, all of you truly deserve better, and I'm proud of you for living to fight for better days.
And I swear to always stand up for and protect people like you and show them that they are loved dearly by someone, even if it is just one person. I swear to stand by people people like you who need it most
@@narliehs1648 And thank you so much for being brave and sharing that.
I have a song recommendation for you it's: STILL BREATHING by Citizen Soldier it's a song for people like you who kept fighting with hope and persistence, who found the strength to live for better days
May the Lord be with you all🥰💕🥹
@@Aashbard01 Thank you. I really appreciate that. 🫂Hearing things like that helps more than you know, it really does.
@@narliehs1648 Always and may the Lord be with you, dear friend🥹💕
I love this clip!
I think this video will get more views if you put a screenshot from the scene where Charlie talks to nick about his experience with bullying + a shot of Jono.
The thumbnail right now isn’t going to attract many views because it doesn’t show the scene you’re reacting to
Someone told me once that he was self harming. I did panic. He was my friend and I could for the life of me find anything to say. So I started crying. It was harrowing. Truly terrifying.
What a beautiful analysis. Thank you for this! I can tell you must be a really exceptional therapist. This scene is so gorgeously written, and so gorgeously ACTED! I've watched it multiple times now, and it just blows me away.
I am so glad you are reacting to this wonderful show. 💖❤️🩹🍂🌈
I'm blessed with lots of awesome 🏳️🌈🟤⚫ friends and often have "strays" around the holidays, and my mom always welcomed them for holiday dinners when she lived up here. No one left without having laughed and smiled so much their face hurt (and a few dog hairs 🐶). It was what we could do, and I could brag about mom's cooking with more and more witnesses to back me up 🥰