This Puzzle Brings A New Meaning to INFINITY! - Patrick's Parabox
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- Опубліковано 29 бер 2022
- Patrick's Parabox Part 2 - Reference and Swap sections. The puzzles are getting harder, but somehow still teachable. You better believe that this game's about to pull some BS.
Edited by: / benbenranger
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First recorded video since I got back from vacation! Glad I got back just in time to enjoy this incredible game.
Hope you had a good break, glad you're back 🙏
Deez
Did everyone redeem all the steam codes from the previous video, or is there still one or two more?
@@IcePho 5 steam codes, 60 thousand people saw the video. I doubt any still worked after the first 500 views.
I got high and this is so fucking cool
I just realized, the yellow blocks that you push around are probably levels themselves, they're just completely filled in so they look like solid blocks, maybe that'll become a mechanic at some point if you can hollow part of them out or something like that
They are actually, but they are filled with wall so to all effects they are solid
I thoughet the same.
Me three
They’re not represented as levels in the text mode though, right?
@@TheYeetedMeat (spoilers)
Yea, but Patrick also doesn't until the text level needs him to, and the void also doesn't appear until you do an action to access it
This game proves that a set of all sets can infact contain itself.
The set of all sets containing itself was known
Russell's paradox is "Does the set of all sets that DO NOT CONTAIN THEMSELVES contain itself?"
this game is zermelo-frankly incredible
This game would take me an hour for every level you do in ten seconds lol
yeah no joke, I have no idea what's happening lol. Just kinda listening to him talk haha
It is probably easier to follow when you play it for yourself so you can experiment and experience the tutorialization for yourself.
I'm super impressed with how they coded this. I'd love to see a deep dive of how the developers stopped infinite calculations.
I think its just camra tricks and such
My best guess. Each level is its own data structure (green level, blue level, etc). Each level knows its contents and the level it is contained within. When traversing in and out of levels, all thats happening is updating the contents of the levels you're moving through. The only truly infinite calculation would be rendering the levels to the screen, since a level in a level would need to render an infinite number of times. But I believe they are just using some arbitrary cutoff to stop rendering once the levels are hard enough to see.
Since at levels become smaller than a pixel fairly quickly, they probably just set a cap of 5 or so. I have a hard time seeing even 3 levels down on a pretty big monitor. The same is true for the space outside of the level; they probably only need 1 level up (or maybe 2) since the stuff outside of the monitor doesn't matter.
Go back to the first video and find the "Nethack" level, the one that's just text. The lack of graphics aside, that level is a much better representation of what is really going on.
@@MrUnjer Yep, this is also something Portal dealt with. Of course, they also did more like letting light spill through (iirc) so there's more calculations but Portal also has an arbitrary cutoff point. I assume for this game you don't need to render more than 1 or 2 layers inwards in recursive blocks because things scale to infinitesimal really fast
So fun fact, the nested recursion at 12:20 is identical to the reason why the number of positive integers is the same as the number of non-negative integers!
As Tyler said, it's unique to infinitely nested recursion, as any two countable sets have the same cardinality.
Infinity is so whack :) if I understand the terminology here, what you're saying is that we have the set [N] which is all positive integers, and is infinite. We also have [0, [N]] which is all non-negative integers, which we "know" is supposed to be +1 the size of N because like, look at it. However because [N] is infinite that's nonsense, and they're both infinite sets and contain the same count of digits. Is that right?
Pair each positive integer with the corresponding nonnegative integer that is twice its value ( 1 with 2, 2 with 4, 3 with 6, etc.)
Bam! No odd nonnegative integer (nor zero) will ever be paired. Therefore there are more than twice as many nonnegative integers as there are positive integers.
@@emdivine Exactly, yes!
@@Scuuurbs that's...not
If you has AT LEAST ONE WAY to pair each of two infinity sets, we could say that the two sets has equal amount? density? of elements.
@@sangchoo1201
Yeah… kinda? Infinite sets are weird. Depending on how you order them, they can appear to have different relative sizes. You know those visual illusions where they make something look bigger or smaller than another object, yet it’s actually the same size? This is like that.
The ‘swap’ section is explaining ‘swap’ of the recursive level from blue to green :)
The thing that’s going on here isn’t duplication, it’s a change in the recurrence. When you have level 1 in level 2 which is in level 1 again, every other layer has level 1 in it. Levels can be inside themselves; so when you push level 1 out of level 2, it is inside itself, so there is a level 1 on every layer of the recurrence. You haven’t “generated” a block, you’ve simply made the infinite number of recurring blocks more densely packed in a way that allows more blocks to be on the screen at the same time.
Seemed like he was trapping himself inside of a deeper infinity
i think he understands that as he said "this is not quite duplication"
but thanks for the explanation now i can understand it better :D
Tbh I'm glad I got this game and played ahead myself. Really cool seeing just how quick you are to solve many of these puzzles.
don't worry, they trim 3/4 of his pondering
9:30 if the editor did a recursive zoom on tyler's camera as well, that would have made my day
His facecam would have to be visible through the facecam, like putting the camera output on a screen and holding it up
its probably not too confusing if you think about the recursive parts like teleportation instead of repeating
I'm getting quite far in the game and oooohhhh is it quite challenging for me. I've never been quite the specialist with puzzles but this game is making much more sense to me than many other puzzles I've attempted.
also you make me feel so silly when you get those puzzles done so fast 😭
Being that you always post so late, I've been lightly using ur vids as my last video before bed. Thanks for helping me fix my sleep schedule, and can't wait to see more Frostpunk and games like this!!
Yeah its on purpose at night but I don't think for that reason
@@milkman4407 I know, but it works pretty well, plus it keeps my sleep schedule in check 😌
@@williamkeenan-harte2664 Yeah Aliensrock is here to say here is a video go to bed now.
This can have unintended consequences. I used to watch Kibler's videos before going to bed, and now his voice makes me sleepy. God damn Pavlov
what the game is explaining in the later half of the vid is what i would term "meta" levels, and how to change that meta level.. just like you can have a blue block with in a blue you can haver a green block within green it's just that you cant push blue out into blue, and green out into green as thats a paradox.
There's a game called Recursed that does have something to do with paradox (or more like wild pointer) though. That game has a mechanics where if you somehow destroy the entry you just entered, and exit the room, you would enter what's called a paradox level.
You can push green out into green, see 19:22. Unless you mean if you’re in green that is also in green you can’t push green outside of itself? Lol using words to explain these concepts is difficult asf
@@benbilbro516 that's exactly what I mean. If green is the meta level you can't push it out into itself
I was really worried when I played the zooming levels, because they gave me some terrible motion sickness. Thankfully there's not much more of that in the game.
Aliensrock: Yeah so the solution is obvious, like so-
Me: yeah uhhh totally, I totally saw that too.
18:28 I think of it as increasing and decreasing the recursion (period).
1. blue is inside blue = period of 1
2. pushing blue into green interleaves an infinite number of green blocks into the recursion chain increasing the period to 2
3. now you can decide how you want to reduce the recursion, for example by removing blue from the chain leaving green inside green with a period of 1
Disclaimer: I have not actually played the game.
Perfect explanation. (The “void” is level “omega”)
In the great words of Gregor, "Trust the natural recursion".
I’ve been really excited to see how convoluted the levels can get.
15:30 I find it quite neat that in this level you start with the blue box containing itself and being your "source of recursion" but you end up with the green box being the one that contains itself at the end.
At that start of the vudeo I was theorizing about the "recursion swap" mechanic and it was so satisfying seeing that it was possible
i’m not a puzzle game enjoyer, but you certainly made it really enjoyable for me, nice video, and the last one was nice too, keep bringing us those! thanks!
From what I can understand, the levels with light-blueish outlines like the ones at 8:38 (and the text-based level in the previous episode) are just one-off gimmick levels, kinda like the question mark levels in Understand.
The "main" level is the one inside of itself, and the way to change it is by linking levels together, then get a new main level by pushing it out of a level into itself making it the new main level.
The level at the very beginning of the game with 4 times recursion is actually a 4 times linked main level state then.
How did we get from bloons tower defense to this? your definitely good at roping us in. ive been loving almost every series since keep it up
I watched him for his early BTD6 because I watched ISAB, and now I don't even watch ISAB anymore....
Entertaining as always!
These ones took me way longer than I wanted them to though lol
It’s cool to see that some levels have multiple solutions (not fully unique, but different patterns and ordering). Sometimes I’m like why tf is he doing it like that, but then it works anyways lol. Great game that encourages unique a type of thinking
When I played, I had to take a step back and appreciate the sheer mind fuckery once I got to Swap
I love the visual stuff this game's doing, like the text based level and the zooming level. So entertaining.
Love the content keep it up!
Im really enjoying you play this
This is a very interesting game and so well designed
I'm enjoying watching this so far. Have you ever played FEZ? That seems like another puzzle game you would like.
this game gives me the good type of headache
edit: it is all clear to me now. thank you for enlightening me, patrick.
Every time I hear “we are going to get through this together” always reminds me of your frost punk play through, and my mind infers from “we are going” to “we are going to die together” in a puzzle game. Quite the dark truth
10:00 The auto-zoom gimmick is easily thwarted by the pause key.
DON’T LET THE DEV SEE THIS!
More Patrick’s Parabox! What a joy!
the zooming puzzles remind me of the part in the witness with the scrolling broken panels
I’ve withstood plenty of confusing ass games but the first 5 minutes had me beat in the brain
Yeah the constant zooming stages really threw me for a loop, what a mindfuck
I just realized that the hub world itself is a level like baba is you. That is definitely going to be a puzzle later in the game
This is like trying to understand a mumbo jumbo Redstone video, yet I've already seen and understand this game
Flashbacks to Futurama's Universe A/1 intensifies. At least nobody's trying to throw any of these levels into the sun.
Tyler, 15 minutes in: "This is the first one that made me think!"
Me, already lost since minute 2:
I, for one, welcome the return of our puzzle game overlords
This hurts my brain but I love it
wonderful video
You can tell Aliensrock's brain just completely busted when he said:
"Congratulations, this game has officially f***ed with me."
i need more! this game is awesome!
I'd say the most generous part of this game is that you don't need to beat every single level. Most are semi optional
You really have to think outside the box with these ☺️
This puzzle made all my brain cells explode.
Aaagh... man... i can feel my brain entangle itself... you are very well trained in this abstract logic concept... I guess the Baba Game helped you... lots of respect 🙏 for you
This game make so much more sense when you stop thinking about space and think of things more in terms of programming.
Each color is a space, and each space within a space is a reference.
Like normal boxes, references never increase or decrease, and the infinity error is when you reference a reference.
I was waiting for this
To this day, i still do not know the concept that Reference tries to introduce.
8:44 OH MY GOD, IT’S CONSTANTLY ZOOMING IN
This game is gonna give me a headache when I play it and I gotta say I'm excited
When green becomes the recursive level:
When last we met, I was but the learner. Now I am the master.
For that level near the end you could say green is "self-containing" or "self-recursive"
For levels that contain each other maybe something like "green and blue are paired" or "a green, blue, and yellow loop"
This game breaks my brain lol
The world is called “Swap” because you’re swapping blue (level) recursion to green block recursion
Wooo even more!!
that nice feeling of baba is you vibes
I'm laughing so much just by imagining answering the "what piece of media/entertainement would you show a caveman" kind of a question with THIS game.
I love how it's possible to change the recursive/global box by simply:
1. Pushing your current global box into the box you want to be global (or otherwise making your global box within your wanted box)
1 - FYI. You now have two linked global/shared global boxes, each is only one level of recursion from itself
2. Exiting your former global box (the box you don't want to be global)
2 - FYI. You now are within the box you want to be global which contains the box that used to be global
3. Pushing your former global box outside of the box you want to become global
3 - FYI. Your global box has now completely changed
Everything is purely logical but it's just not the kind of logic that you normally have to deal with and it is wonderful.
When I’m playing this, I refer to the levels that are inside themselves as “hubs.” I think it works kinda well
Oh god this game is really trippy.
This game is a mindfuck
I love it
Very good
This game is so trippy to watch
I have played this game *the entire thing.* and this game goes from parabox to paraaaaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHH
12 AM pog. this is why i dont sleep
The last world is basically passing tye paradox into another block.
*one of the most important ideas in mathematics is the idea of center* - me who’s brain got corrupted by Patrick
So, I'm gonna hit this with some math and make a prediction:
If we ignore the Sokoban stuff and the infinity void, then all we're left with is a digraph where the vertices are the rooms/blocks and the edge (u,v) denotes that u is contained in v. Seen this way, pushing a block b in room r out into room s is the same as swapping the edge (b,r) for an edge (b,s): it's just changing which room b is contained in. Rooms that contain themselves are then loops, and n-cycles are just longer loops like the puzzle at 3:53.
An interesting thing as that if a block is contained in at most one room, then you can have at most one accessible cycle. That's because if you had at least two distinct cycles then whatever containment connects one cycle to the other represents another edge in addition to the one which loops the cycle. So, unless multiple blocks wind up containing the same room, there's a limit to how loopy the containment structure of any level can get.
Hence my prediction is that we're gonna see multiple blocks containing the same room at some point because I don't think they'll limit how fucked these rooms can get.
In light of the most recent episode (A Clone Inside a Clone Inside a Clone Inside...), it's time to revisit this prediction. What I was thinking was that when rooms got copied, we would need to think of this as a multidigraph where each edge corresponds to a connection from one room to another. Upon reflection, this wouldn't have been possible because they didn't make a way to disambiguate which copy you leave from when you exit a level. Stepping off the edge just doesn't afford that kind of detail. Thus while the clones aren't quite what I expected I think they at least make sense as a way of exploring this concept, and allow for some stuff that my idea wouldn't have permitted like detaching loops.
I am thoroughly fucked with, but I can’t look away.
It's causing a paradox by inverting your "Home Box" with the "Objective Box(s)" via duplication. It's an odd one I'll give it that.
I wonder if there's a level with 2 or more self- reference, a level with two of itself within itself. You'd be able to push a level outside of itself, and it would still have a place to go (assuming your not pushing both out at the same time and one isn't blocked where the other would be) and it would also befall shenanigans like duplication, block or self duplication.
Having two self references within is already a paradox. It's probably hinted already that the game would only allow one parent location per block, with the way it renders "what's outside the current level". Otherwise there's really no point for the game to stop you from pushing a level outside itself really.
By the way, there's another similarly themed game called Recursed, which IIRC allows referenced level duplication, as giving that it's a metaphor of programming rather than pure math, you always exit where you entered. That's said, the game does something funky when you try to exit after you somehow destroyed your entry.
I watched the first minutes and the game confused me so much 😂😂
But by now I can kinda follow your thoughts :O
This honestly made my brain hurt, like a fiscal headache thanks to my migraine. Just wasn't able to keep watching after the loop
VERY cool game
Appreciate for the explanation but my brain cannot process anything atm 😂
I cannot wait for the hell this game will unveil upon me
God this game is both awesome and a headache
I just realised theres probably some world map bs like with baba
When programming becomes a puzzle. Like Baba is you, but instead of editing the code itself, you deal with references, which people might not know about unless you actually get into programming. Genius Game idea
19:06 blue is inside green
Holy shit he knows color mixing
it definitely is difficult to explain to me I understand it as "recursive" is when an enterable block is found within itself and a "layer/level" is any enterable block that is non recursive
only two episodes in and its ramping up. would be really interested to see how this was developed
This is insane
And if you think it's a weird puzzle game *now* wait until you see Clone!
If this was a movie it would be a way more interesting inception than funnily, inception
The last levels of the world's reminds me of Understand and its end of world levels
you spoke about wanting better terms to discuss this. How about Macro-level for the highest level possible before the infini-void and micro-level for all the blocks contained therein
This game is cool af
The way I understood this is that you have to put the level with the goal inside of itself
My brain frying by the speed of you doing the game, I have to put it at 0.25 speed and I don’t even know which player to look at
if you do the first level of the world at the end of the episode it could work as a cliffhanger
Man, my head hurts now, like it actually does tho
What happens if you create infinity, but don't leave the block, can you create a second infinity pushing out the other Block?
Seems to be possible in this level 11:30.