In the next episode if you’re doing the western Greeks, be sure to mention Massilia, Rhodon, and Emporium! Especially Massalia’s weirdly friendly relationship with early Rome
"Western Greeks"? Well, there is no such thing as "Eastern Greeks" either, as this guy writes, cause first of all The Hellenes that went to Minor Asia and colonized were FROM Hellas, and it was mainly Northern Hellenes that settled in the western shores of Minor Asia. The so-called Minor Asians/Pontians are not 100% pure Hellenes but mixed out with Turks and Armenians (specifically "Pontians"). Unfortunately many of them mixed with the tribes in the stepps of Minor Asia like Turks and Armenians. PS: Same goes for settlement in Marseille etc. It was mainly Northern Greeks that went colonizing elsewhere.
You should also cover the Hellenistic settlement of Asia Minor in areas like Cappadocia, Lydia, Paphlagonia, Phrygia, Pisidia, Pamphylia, Lycia, Lycaonia, Cilicia and Galatia etc. Bc this would serve as the foundation of the Roman and later Byzantine East and explain why this region stayed so long under Greek Christian rule.
@@TheKing-qz9wd fun fact: when the celtic Galatians were defeated by the Seleucids, they mixed with them, creating the Helleno-Galatians Έλληνο-Γαλάται.
“ Quintus Publilius Philo” that’s a Roman that I for one had never heard of. A one of a kind trailblazer who would make a good addition to your Roman of renown series.
Why did so much art and learning come from such a small area? Were the Ionians brighter than their neighbors, or do they appear that way because the literature of their neighbors was wiped out and forgotten?
Also probably translation plays a big part. Things were translated from Greek to Latin then to whatever modern European language. If something was written in Phoenician or Persian, or some other language, it wouldn't have followed that path. Might have even been discarded. Also stone use, versus wood or mud-brick.
Asia minor was in the east and it was less influenced by the bronze age collapse 1200 bc). The western mycenean and minoan civilization dissapeared. No writing, no science, after 1200 nothing was happing in the west. This is when the greek dark ages start till 800 BC. During this time people from the west went to the east for a better life. In the east you already had great empires like the hittite and the assyrians and the phoenician city states like Byblos, Sidon, Ugarite. So eastern greeks could learn alot from their phoenician/assyrian neighboors wereas western greeks had no one to learn from. It were the eastern greeks who took over phoenician script, also eastern mythology inspired Greek mythology.
I thought it was established that the illiad was based on factual locations and a real war. Just mythologized the characters. There are hittite records that establish an invasion from mycenae to a city on the coast, where troy was described to be. They appear to have investigated the war but were late and troy had been destroyed. In the case of the hittite description of the events, they were destroyed in the bronze age collapse and wiped from history very soon after, only rediscovered in the past century. Thusly we have the trojan war followed almost immediately by a collapse and mass migration south to Egypt, where the migrations are also recorded. Seems rather clear that it's not strictly speaking "myth"
I feel like we are in a strange age of mega cynicism where all historians assume that anything cool that we can’t 100% prove without a single doubt like troy or king Agamemnon are just myths that people made up for fun. It’s like whenever historians find a strange piece of armor they go “hmm yes it was probably ornamental and for parades and not used in battle”, they say that without fail every single time even though they Have no evidence for it and it’s just silly considering all the crazy shit we have seen cultures wear I to battle
A myth can have some elements of truth to it, but the evidence points out that the illiad is mainly a myth based on siege of Troy, like the Mahabharata is probably a real tribal war that is exaggerated and made a myth.
Miletus should be read as Me-let-os as opposed to My-leet-os. Greek and Hittite written names for Miletus makes it clear. Unfortunately in English it is pronounced as /maɪˈliːtəs/
@@md.shihabsharar8753 Unfortunately yes. Well, not intellectual Turks of course. But there has been a radicalisation in Turkish nationalism that goes back as far to deny anything non-Turkish as part of their history, especially the history of the land. There were some efforts to abandon this narrative of conquest and the acceptance of their true past as people of Anatolia, but there's no real audience in Turkey. Check what happens with Turkish authorities covering or destroying such multicultural elements from Anatolia.
That is more of a mainstream UA-cam channel thing, or in a History Facebook group. I thought saying Troy and the Hittites were Armenian on here once was gonna bring out a few Turks, didn't happen.
you call acres and acres and acres of olive trees unproductive. I was recently in Greece and olive trees and vineyards are everywhere that they can be grown.....
Unproductive wasn't the right word, but certainly olive trees cannot keep a large population fed, which was why the Athenians and other mainland Greeks frequently found themselves in need of grain imports.
The sack of Constantinople by the Franks is what destroyed the Byzantine Empire, not the poor nomads called turks from the Far East. Read and learn. The turks were simply waiting for a wounded animal to die in order to attack it. Read.
Hitties , luvians, lycan people and Kaşka and Palaic people weren't greek. They were indo-european speaking caucasus hunter gatherers, Anatolian native farmers. Greeks never dominated population of anatolia. The helenization of native peoples of anatolia caused a greek speaking Cristians of asia minor. Then Central asian soldiers and their families came. Most of the surviving population mixed with conquers
We are all descendants of luwian and Hittites, myceans of anatolia of Macedonian ( trachians Turks troy and Greeks all same people )...truth be revealed.
I thought it was established that the illiad was based on factual locations and a real war. Just mythologized the characters. There are hittite records that establish an invasion from mycenae to a city on the coast, where troy was described to be. They appear to have investigated the war but were late and troy had been destroyed. In the case of the hittite description of the events, they were destroyed and wiped from history very soon after. Thusly we have the trojan war followed almost immediately by a collapse and mass migration south to Egypt, where the migrations are also recorded. Seems rather clear that it's not strictly speaking "myth"
In the next episode if you’re doing the western Greeks, be sure to mention Massilia, Rhodon, and Emporium! Especially Massalia’s weirdly friendly relationship with early Rome
"Western Greeks"? Well, there is no such thing as "Eastern Greeks" either, as this guy writes, cause first of all The Hellenes that went to Minor Asia and colonized were FROM Hellas, and it was mainly Northern Hellenes that settled in the western shores of Minor Asia. The so-called Minor Asians/Pontians are not 100% pure Hellenes but mixed out with Turks and Armenians (specifically "Pontians"). Unfortunately many of them mixed with the tribes in the stepps of Minor Asia like Turks and Armenians.
PS: Same goes for settlement in Marseille etc. It was mainly Northern Greeks that went colonizing elsewhere.
@@aetherion7Why is it unfortunate they mixed with other locals?
After the Italian greeks are you gonna take a look on Pontos Greeks and Ionian colonies in Spain and Southern France
Not in the immediate future, but I would like to cover them eventually.
You should also cover the Hellenistic settlement of Asia Minor in areas like Cappadocia, Lydia, Paphlagonia, Phrygia, Pisidia, Pamphylia, Lycia, Lycaonia, Cilicia and Galatia etc. Bc this would serve as the foundation of the Roman and later Byzantine East and explain why this region stayed so long under Greek Christian rule.
Yes. So many interesting Greek settlements or hellenised settlements in Asia. They're all wonderful to read up on.
Galatia you say? Well that makes sense.
@@TheKing-qz9wd fun fact: when the celtic Galatians were defeated by the Seleucids, they mixed with them, creating the Helleno-Galatians Έλληνο-Γαλάται.
For when the region became Christian it had been already under Roman rule for a couple of centuries.
@@Michael_the_Drunkard heyy buddy i own a greco turkish friendship discord server if you want to join send me your account
I'm a Greek of Asia Minor. Both my parents were born in Asia minor and moved to Greece in 1923
What about the island Rhodes. they were also Dorian Greeks and they rose to great prominence during the hellenistic period.
Always so insightful!
Thank you for your hard work and a great video! This channel is one of the best on YT
Thanks Dr. Thersites. Perhaps Heraclea Pontica, Bithynia and pre-Roman pontus?
Having watched all your videos (outside of Livestreams) this video gave me a massive case of deja vu XD
I believe the Ephesos front facade was rebuilt from ruins.
The rebuild was done by Austrian archaeologists.
Thank you
“ Quintus Publilius Philo” that’s a Roman that I for one had never heard of. A one of a kind trailblazer who would make a good addition to your Roman of renown series.
I'll have to look into him.
me and the boys getting up to some mycenaean activities
IIRC Miletos was the first place to mint silver coins in the world
For the Doric Hexapolis move to 22:45
Have you covered the Lemnos stele?
A great part of the mausoleum was made building materials for the construction of the castle of rhodes for the order of saint john .
Why did so much art and learning come from such a small area? Were the Ionians brighter than their neighbors, or do they appear that way because the literature of their neighbors was wiped out and forgotten?
Also probably translation plays a big part. Things were translated from Greek to Latin then to whatever modern European language. If something was written in Phoenician or Persian, or some other language, it wouldn't have followed that path. Might have even been discarded. Also stone use, versus wood or mud-brick.
Asia minor was in the east and it was less influenced by the bronze age collapse 1200 bc). The western mycenean and minoan civilization dissapeared. No writing, no science, after 1200 nothing was happing in the west. This is when the greek dark ages start till 800 BC. During this time people from the west went to the east for a better life. In the east you already had great empires like the hittite and the assyrians and the phoenician city states like Byblos, Sidon, Ugarite. So eastern greeks could learn alot from their phoenician/assyrian neighboors wereas western greeks had no one to learn from. It were the eastern greeks who took over phoenician script, also eastern mythology inspired Greek mythology.
I have to hand it to the residents of Smyrna, that parking lot was built to last!
I thought it was established that the illiad was based on factual locations and a real war. Just mythologized the characters. There are hittite records that establish an invasion from mycenae to a city on the coast, where troy was described to be. They appear to have investigated the war but were late and troy had been destroyed. In the case of the hittite description of the events, they were destroyed in the bronze age collapse and wiped from history very soon after, only rediscovered in the past century.
Thusly we have the trojan war followed almost immediately by a collapse and mass migration south to Egypt, where the migrations are also recorded. Seems rather clear that it's not strictly speaking "myth"
Will your Western Greeks video include Messalia?
No.
Why so much interest for Massilia?
Based!!!
I feel like we are in a strange age of mega cynicism where all historians assume that anything cool that we can’t 100% prove without a single doubt like troy or king Agamemnon are just myths that people made up for fun. It’s like whenever historians find a strange piece of armor they go “hmm yes it was probably ornamental and for parades and not used in battle”, they say that without fail every single time even though they Have no evidence for it and it’s just silly considering all the crazy shit we have seen cultures wear I to battle
A myth can have some elements of truth to it, but the evidence points out that the illiad is mainly a myth based on siege of Troy, like the Mahabharata is probably a real tribal war that is exaggerated and made a myth.
Do we know anything about the island Karpathos?
Epic
Miletus should be read as Me-let-os as opposed to My-leet-os. Greek and Hittite written names for Miletus makes it clear. Unfortunately in English it is pronounced as /maɪˈliːtəs/
I hope this comment section won't be overrun by truth-denying Turks. Interesting report, I may say.
Is that a thing? They deny the Hellenes were in Asia Minor?
@@md.shihabsharar8753 Unfortunately yes. Well, not intellectual Turks of course. But there has been a radicalisation in Turkish nationalism that goes back as far to deny anything non-Turkish as part of their history, especially the history of the land. There were some efforts to abandon this narrative of conquest and the acceptance of their true past as people of Anatolia, but there's no real audience in Turkey. Check what happens with Turkish authorities covering or destroying such multicultural elements from Anatolia.
@Κωνσταντίνος Τσιούμας afaik, you're the only one raising the issue. I hope it doesn't get overrun by Greeks living in the past as well.
Lol turks are a Siberian nomadic people who settled in Anatolia.
That is more of a mainstream UA-cam channel thing, or in a History Facebook group. I thought saying Troy and the Hittites were Armenian on here once was gonna bring out a few Turks, didn't happen.
The Ionian Awakening....
You've got a nice civ here. It'd be a shame if something bad were to happen to it.
you call acres and acres and acres of olive trees unproductive. I was recently in Greece and olive trees and vineyards are everywhere that they can be grown.....
Unproductive wasn't the right word, but certainly olive trees cannot keep a large population fed, which was why the Athenians and other mainland Greeks frequently found themselves in need of grain imports.
For the Algorithm!
Your documentaries make others with million views look juvenile. Hope you will be able to sketch how Asia Minor came to its current status...
First!
The trojans!
Megali ellada( feminine adjectives don’t end with -s!!
The Byzantines really effed up losing Anatolia to the Seljuk Turks.
The sack of Constantinople by the Franks is what destroyed the Byzantine Empire, not the poor nomads called turks from the Far East. Read and learn. The turks were simply waiting for a wounded animal to die in order to attack it. Read.
@ mehmet, the Sack of Constantinople in 1204 and the partitioning that followed is what literally prepared its end.
ALEXANDER!!!!!!!!
Turks call Greeks Yunans=Ioanians
To many assumptions and opinions inserted to trust anything.
My polis is a sh!thole, an hour west of Chicago
Hitties , luvians, lycan people and Kaşka and Palaic people weren't greek.
They were indo-european speaking caucasus hunter gatherers, Anatolian native farmers.
Greeks never dominated population of anatolia. The helenization of native peoples of anatolia caused a greek speaking Cristians of asia minor.
Then Central asian soldiers and their families came. Most of the surviving population mixed with conquers
We are all descendants of luwian and Hittites, myceans of anatolia of Macedonian ( trachians Turks troy and Greeks all same people )...truth be revealed.
Geçmis olsun
@@vassilopoula history is us we what we are ....not some Helen and or Paris . But the cause is .
I thought it was established that the illiad was based on factual locations and a real war. Just mythologized the characters. There are hittite records that establish an invasion from mycenae to a city on the coast, where troy was described to be. They appear to have investigated the war but were late and troy had been destroyed. In the case of the hittite description of the events, they were destroyed and wiped from history very soon after.
Thusly we have the trojan war followed almost immediately by a collapse and mass migration south to Egypt, where the migrations are also recorded. Seems rather clear that it's not strictly speaking "myth"