Much as the natural Japanese stones only appear in the unique strata that appears only in Japan, or Belgium stones appear only in the unique strata peculiar to Belgium, the Arkansas stone only appears in the unique strata of America in Arkansas. It seems worth a mention that these amazing stones are, global speaking, incredibly rare. I started using a "Surgical Black Hard Arkansas" from A.G. Russel over thirty years ago in 78 or 79, sold to me by the late great A.G Russel. My only guide to sharpening at the time was the included instructions that came with the stone. It was capable of producing a true mirror polished edge that sliced through paper virtually soundlessly and would shave hair so effortlessly that there was no perception of cutting at all. Every stone, absolutely every single stone I've ever used since then has been a compromise to that stone. Feedback is a variable controlled by the cutting fluid you use. When I got my first stone all I had was 3in1 oil. I've used many fluids since then. I've recently learned that the best fluid I've ever used can be made by combining a couple drops of orange oil with pure water. A "good" honing oil makes a translucent or black Arkansas simply slippery to the edge. Dish soap and water is better, much better; but the best feedback comes with using orange oil and water. Orange oil is completely soluble and makes a milky honing "oil" that will show you the difference between "hard black" and "translucent" stones. By the way: There's a significant difference between merely "black" stones, such as the one you're using in this video and the ultra rare "true black" Arkansas stone which is at least equal to or superior to the "translucent" Arkansas. Also, by the way; you might consider saying a word about the recent passing of the great A.G. Russel. Although you are surely too young to know anything about him; my most treasured possession is my new "black" Arkansas stone given to me by A.G. Russel because I mentioned in a thank you note at least thirty years late, how the stone he'd sold me decades before had been broken. I hadn't mentioned even the slightest dissatisfaction with his product, yet he replaced it simply on my word it had broken in a flaw in the stone.
Arkansas stones are not unique to Arkansas. The generic name is novacullite, which is found in many places over the world. Arkansas' Ouachita mountains are the biggest known source with much of the highest purity stone. The country of Turkey has high quality novaculite, as well. The novaculite is made from the dead carcasses of diatoms, compressed on the bottom of the ocean from a long time ago.
@@mildyproductive9726 Thank you. I'm sure that's all true; but, where do you buy Turkish novaculite stones? No dispute. I'm sure they're out there somewhere. But, if the ONLY stones you can actually get come from Arkansas; then that's all you can get. So far, any information I've ever seen for getting stone like this somewhere else is nothing more than words. I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm just saying information isn't the same as being able to actually put your hands on some of it.
@@JoeSevy I doubt you can buy it unless you live close to Turkey, today. Before the Ouachita stones were discovered, novaculite stones were exported from Turkey around the world, including to early America. They were well regarded... until the motherlode was discovered in Arkansas.
@@mildyproductive9726 I actually have a contact that could probably get me something from Turkey if I asked. But I've not been able to find any evidence of the existence of "Turkey Stones" whatsoever beyond a reference to a source that I can't find. I've seen two references from people who claimed to have "Turkey Stones", but without any reason why they believed they were Turkey Stones. Anyone might claim to have anything. I make toast with a popup toaster made in 1926. The difference is that I can demonstrate what I'm saying is true, regardless of how improbable it sounds. A rock is a rock unless there's some test a geologist could perform to demonstrate it's origin. In essence. There's no such thing as a "Turkey Stone" despite the probable fact that there are whole mountains of Novaculite in Turkey. I repeat. "In essence." If you can't lay your hands on one, point to one in a museum, point to historical references to them, then they're just a mythical object. Same thing with the "Turkey Stone" quarries. They have to actually exist somewhere on a map. Even if the stones were just produced by nameless artisans; the area they came from would likely have gained fame for that reason. We should be able to find the old, or modern quarries. I can't find anything but empty claims. Can you reference any primary sources for your claims?
@@JoeSevy No, you're right. It is just something I remember reading on the internet. Wikipedia says novaculite occurs in the Middle East and Japan. More specifically, it states Lebanan, Syria, Israel. I don't know if Wikipedia is right, even. But if this was true, some of those stones conceivably got traded out of Turkey to the other continents.
Great stones. I learned how to free hand on Arkansas stones, and got my first hair whittling edge from Arkansas stones. I would definitely like to see you test them out on higher hardness steels, just because I hear people all the time saying they dont work on hard steels
Hey great video and honing oil is normally used but ask most sharpeners with lots of experience in these stones and soapy water is the way to go mainly because the stone will soak up the oil and become blackened over time also slows cutting time. That's the main reason for using soapy water over oil. Also anyone wanting the black stone Amazon has them in stock usually from best sharpening stone for about $65. I usually only go to black stone and then strop with compound for final polish. Cheap polish is mothers magnesium polish available Walmart or anywhere put some on a strop or piece of real leather and works great.
Deja vu time. I bought those exact four from Sharpening Supplies about five years ago. I put them away for a treat when I retired. That happened in August and they are due to come out any day soon... So this video is just at the right time....
Thanks for the Arkansas video. I'm a new hobby knife sharpener. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of using a Arkansas with water vs oil. The grit feel comparison to ceramics was useful in this video. Keep up the good work.
I am with you about the meditative aspect of sharpening a knife and I am reading everything I can about this Arkansas stones so could you make a video comparing this Arkansas stones with other American stones or Japanese stones? Looking forward!
The video is concise and fair, the latter quality being unknown in American journalism now. The 4 stones with their different grits and qualities are well covered, as are the differences--both pro and con--between the natural Arkansas stones and the synthetic Japanese stones. Too often we compare and contrast, as though it is a competition. I see the goal of these tools as being the same, to sharpen a knife. Hence, I use diamond stone plates, steel and ceramic honing rods, and both Japanese and Arkansas whetstones. But I am just an old Arkansas Hillbilly, so I keep it simple. Good job again on the information presented in the video.
Yeah, the black ark offers a modest polish but has the kind of crisp, snappy tactile feedback one would expect from a 600 grit synthetic stone. Love it.
I'm about to upgrade my sharpening kit and really appreciate this video. Although I've been sharpening since I was a child I've only recently began using anything other than a pocket stone. My current setup is a huge Norton 120/320 combo and a 4in soft arkansas to finish before stropping. I can spend $60. I'm torn between the Chosera 800 and the King kds 1000/6000. The thing is I really like oil. I would love to try one of those Arkansas hard blacks! It's a relaxing hobby for me and therefore 100% all about the feedback. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
From Dan's (DansWhetstone), their recommendation is to use oil as it suspends any particulate and preserves the stone. I have used water, but I only use oil now after learning the benefit to using it. I have their medium and fine stones. I use them for sharpening plane blades, chisels, and my kitchen knives. Three years later, they still are as flat as when they were new. Hopefully that helps!
Water and soap works just fine on the soft and hard. I think the water and soap feels much more aggressive as well. I have a water set and oil set. I don't know if the speed improvement is meaningful, but they do feel different depending on the lubricating agent. The black seems to like oil better.
Hi Ryky, I wanna thank you because what you have teaching me in the sharpening world until now, I'm Portuguese and planning now make my own channel, one more time, god bless you man!! Keep with the excellent content :)
I don't know if this is gonna come off as strange or not, but I have to say, I love the asian appreciation of the process. I really enjoy the process of making things and improving things, the journey is the enjoyment and the end result is a nice little reward. It is REALLY nice to see various people cultures in Asia who feel the same way, its great. we need more of that in America.
Oh btw I don’t mean to bash another company but “ DansWhetstone.com “ has the best quality of black stone. Personally I have found that the black stones from the providers you gave needed to be lapped before the surface was like glass. I had bought a black stone from one of those providers you mentioned and I had to lap it several times on progressively higher grit sandpaper before the surface became glassy. But the black stones from Dan’s Whetstone Co., came in already smooth as glass and the price was not that far off, plus I only live about an hour and a half away from the in Arkansas, so no shipping : )
Great oil stones. I have a 4” translucent my dad gave me a long time ago. It was so loaded up it was black. Got it flattened and it puts a nice mirror polish and a really nice edge. Been looking for a good surgical black but can never find any in stock. 👍 awesome video!
There's a few things to keep in mind with Arkansas stones. All grades have essentially the same "grit". Grit is the size of the abrasive particle (which is monocrystalline silica for novaculite) and is in a range of 3 to 5 microns for Arkansas stone. That's roughly equivalent to a 3000 to 5000 grit range in a Chosera or Shapton. So in terms of abrasiveness Arkansas stones are at the high end of what you might regard as a nakato or medium stone or at the low end for a finishing stone and in terms of cutting aggressiveness they tend to be quite slow due to their hardness. Personally, because they cut so slowly and aren't very abrasive I only use Arkies as a finishing stone or to touch up edges that are already pretty sharp.
I can't imagine you remember, but a while back I predicted your going down an Arkansas stone rabbit hole. Just when you think you're done, you'll be pulled back.
These work great for sharpening lawn mower blades, i have the pocket stones from dan's. You can use them with water but they clog up fast. Try both, you can get the oil out with acid if you don't like it
After a VERY tiresome time this deer season finding out just how dull my knives are, I ordered 3 of the Arkansas stones shown :P your review is so reassuring 👍now I have to check your other vids!
My black is my favorite Arkansas as well. The way it looks when slicked with oil is crazy...swirly and smooth. The only stones I can compare it to in that realm are my high grit shapton glass stones which have this crazy beading effect on water and a smooth, almost grippy feel to them. Arkansas stones are way overlooked, imo. They’re my favorite type of natural stone.
I grew up in Hot Springs, AR in and around the area where most of this Novaculite is quarried. I learned to sharpen on a set of these from my grandfather and I've never found anything that I liked better but they are definitely 'slower' than the super speedy Japanese synthetics and most people won't be thrilled with them if they're trying to put an edge on newer harder steel. They'll give you an edge but it can take quite awhile.
These are priced nicely. One would think, being a finite resource, they would be more expensive. I love the character of the soft stone. Might have to get one of these.
Hey Ryky, hope you’re doing well. Are there any major differences from your experience between Arkansas and Japanese natural stones? I have the choseras as splashes then the cerax/rika as my soaking and looking into getting a couple of naturals but ideally would want similar performance. Any recs would be appreciated. Thanks!
On my surgical black 10x3x1 , it's lapped and I get see the marks from the teeth of the blade rake the light oil . Once that disappears , the blade is razor sharp and mine gives a bright mirror polish . My translucent cuts a lot faster but the black gives the finer edges . I'm from Arkansas , lived here all my life .trust me , no two Arkansas stones are alike . Dans whetstones sells the highest quality stones . ( just my opinion but shared by others ) Dan Kirschman the owner , is a geologist and mining engineer . Very nice man . He will tell you they are graded by density . I usually lap one side rough at about 80 grit after I've lapped it up to at least 600 grit . The other side is lapped to about 2500 grit with silicon carbide . I plan on using a true cast iron lap with diamond paste to lapped even flatter . The flatness helps me to hold my angle . Still have my soft from my teenage years , I'm 58 . Many in the shaving crowd use lapped surgical true hard black Arkansas for a reason . There's one other you didn't mention but it's little known , the rarest of them all . A blue-black translucent. That's the one that I learn to sharpen on . It takes the edge to the next level as rough rooster can testify. I had bought it for my dad back in the late 1970s . My experience is that the slower the stone , the finer the edge . My edges look convex , don't know if it's just me but I've looked with microscope . No micro bevels , but a true apple seed grind . My dad taught me how on that black translucent. To this day , I've never felt a smoother stone . AG Russell once lapped true blacks together with .25 micron diamond slurry for eye surgeons looking for the finest , sharpest edge for their scalpels . Some lap and use optical flats with helium laps to check flatness . Machinists have known about our oil stones for decades . Some don't use oil but soap and water or shaving soap . I've used both but prefer light oil . Anyway , I've watched your videos for years . Your skills are amazing ! Just subscribed
Just a tip for the oil, They market it as a honing oil, which is just mineral oil. If you want a food safe mineral oil, you can buy paraffin oil by the gallon in any drug store, and it would be a good "honing mineral oil", and since it is not marketed as "honing oil" you will of course pay a lot lot lot less. honing oil is basically a rip off of the uninformed
Straight mineral oil is a bit thick. I'm experimenting with cutting the mineral oil with some odorless mineral spirits. The thinner oil makes sharpening go faster.
Arkansas stones are great. I sharpen my knives on them and even a my straight razor. The have great feedback and give a toothy edges. Great utility and combine with a good strop I get very sharp and comfortable straight razors.
Awesome video! A suggestion for your next one, maybe take a look at spyderco ceramic stones, they are less forgiving while sharpening but don't wear at all. Best wishes
I've heard from people who have owned and used a lot of these over the years that even with the same type of stone let's say a translucent or a black there is variation and grades. So even if you get another black you might get a higher level of polish more comparable to an 8k. Also I've heard burnishing can help with getting a better finish.
Hey Ryky. I have been watching your knife sharpening videos, and I am learning a lot - great videos. A request: please consider doing a video on sharpening an EDC folding blade pocket knife. I know the principles are the same, but it would be good to see you do a tutorial on sharpening one. Many thanks.
Good video, been waiting awhile for it! I would love to see you do more videos stacking them against other stones but before you do talking to some pros with these stones so you can get there best performance vs your best performance waterstones. Couple of guys on youtube really know there stuff on these stones check them out like roughroostersharpening.
Hey Ricky, just subscribed. Thank you very much on the useful information you have provided so far - your videos are great! One question though, and this is just subjective, what would you say is the best range of knives that covers all uses for the home? I cook a lot of western style foods, but I am of asian ethnicity, so an asian cleaver is a must.
I have a King 1000/6000 whetstone and want your recommendation for a low grit and a high grit whetstone? I am still a beginner, less than one year, and cost is always an issue. Thank you so much for your excellent videos. Keep sharp!!
Hi Rick...I think Burrfection must have misread your post...so I will try to answer your question. I own and use nearly every kind of high grit finishing natural whetstones worldwide. Including: German Eachers, Thuringians and Schwedensteins, Japanese Asagi and Suita, French Coticules, English Charnley Forest stones and Dalmore Blues, American Washita and Arkansas soft, hard, black, and translucent black stones. In my opinion the Arkansas translucent black stones give the finest possible edge from a natural stone. And I always finish with a few strokes on the trans Ark regardless of which other stones Ive used in the progression. But they do need some preparation before you get the best results. When I get a new Ark...I flatten both faces...then I polish one face with ever finer sandpaper up to 2k grit. The idea is to leave one side a bit courser so it cuts faster...but have the other side be very fine...to leave a finished edge. I use them to finish Sashimi knives and straight razors...which require the finest edges possible. Sadly...the best lower grit Washita stones are all mined out. You can still find them used on Ebay...but they are a little spendy. So...for a lower grit stone I would go with a soft Ark...or an inexpensive Japanese waterstone. I have no affiliation with this company...other than buying my Arkansas stones from them. But they have the best prices and their stones are great. www.naturalwhetstone.com/productssharpening3.htm :Again...I would go with the translucent black...or the regular black. I own them both and they both work great. The trans is a little finer...but for knife sharpening the difference in performance is negligible...but sadly the difference in price is not. Hope this helps...cheers.
It all depends on the individual stones. Japanese Awasedo (finishing stones), Belgian Coticule, German Thuringian...are all great Waterstones. And of course black and translucent Arkansas...as well as Charnley Forest stones...are great oilstones. However...I use water on all of them. But they will all produce an edge finer than you would ever need for knives...which is why they're mostly used for straight razors/kamisoris...which require the finest and smoothest edges possible.
For arks You should should go on the bay and spring for a labelled lily white or rosy red washita. It's a different thing entirely. True one stone solution. Keep one side rough and let the other side wear in fine.
Nice video Rick, woodworkers and carvers really like Arkansas stones, is the corse stone called a washita? I am planing on buying a belgian coticule stone just to test how it performs, i used green slate whetstones and they gave good feed back but natural stones do cut slow. I really like this videos u make on natural stones hope to se you test out some different natural stones, as i observed all regions have there own natural stones.
Hi Ryky, great video.. i was really waiting for your take on Arkansas stone. Still eyeing on a good Black Arkansas. btw. Would like to get your opinion on a Lily White. thank you..
2 cents regarding push vs push/pull: neither. My favorite way to sharpen a knife on an arkansas stone is to draw it over the edge of the stone like a steel or ceramic rod using just a very very slight angle to favor the near edge of the stone (the edge by the hilt). Then to sharpen the tip of the knife, draw the knife from belly to tip over the far edge of the stone. It helps to knock down the corners of the stone (and the edges, too) so that the edge of the stone doesn't get dished. With a soft slurry stone, this would be useless. The slurry would not get used, effectively, and the edge of the stone would just disintegrate for no reason. On a hard stone, this sharpens faster with less bur formation, and it allows you to feel exactly where there are any defects in the edge and to focus on those spots. Circles work great for faster/coarser work (still slightly favoring the edge of the stone), then finishing with the draw strokes. It would be improbable that anyone would try this on a large super flat expensive stone that is a work of art. Don't try it on your good stone, because it will wear the edges. Best to try this on a smaller, cheaper stone, first. If you like it you may convert all your hard stones to this method, convexing these stones and rounding over the edges and knocking down the corners. The stone would look a little like the top of a loaf of bread after many years of sharpening (or via intentional shaping), with just a slight curve on the surface. All of the razor factories in Solingen used grossly convexed hard stones for sharpening their razors for over a century. The stone also won't load or glaze, which can happen if sharpening a straight, flat blade against a flat ark stone using push strokes. By using a small area of the stone, the stone actually wears fast enough to refresh rather than glaze. Different stones do work better with different techniques. Just throwing another one out there. You'll find that people who put the blade flat against a flat arkansas stone and who do a lot of sharpening, these guys will occasionally "refresh" the surface of the stone with a diamond plate when it starts to glaze. Different strokes for different folks.
black Arkansas is finer than translucent, speaking from what i once thought too, it's the other way around from what you'd expect, so you listed those out of order
Hi, i have a preyda series of arkansas stones and i have seroius problems with what you call tactile sensation. i totally dislike eit and i fear this is due to the surface conditioning i used. i like to feel stone gripping in the steel, some interaction between them. this is what i joyfully obtained finishing the translucent wit SiC 400 grit, and maybe this will work also on the black surgical. on the blacke hard and the white hard the problem semms more complicated, looks like i need to keep them a degree more rough than the others need. i don't like that greasy feeling i have. Can you tell me how do you condition the surface of your stones? i make and sharpen razors nad tried also the "dressed surface" with Alox 4000: the beginning is really frustrating. With any other stone i pop a hair 4 in from the anging point, here the stuff looks more comlicated. How do you condition their surface? thanks. Emidio, italy.
would be useful to clear the situation and improve the information of the video that i can hear the sound made by the stone. it helps a lot to understand the kind of job made by the tone. thanks again,
I found a black rectangle stone that’s light and feels similar to charcoal and I’m not sure if it’s a sharpening stone or not. Could anyone clarify for me?
The single characteristic every 'sharpening stone' I've ever seen shared was density. That said, the only characteristic that matters is if it produces an acceptable edge for you. If it sharpens your knife, it's a sharpening stone. If not, then it's not a sharpening stone.
I have those very stones and I use the black last and get a very high mirror polish on my knives. Y might try hitting the translucent before you go to the black.
A useless comment from me. I have the superfine white and the ultra black. When I use either, the stones are so slick and it takes a lot of work to get the edge to glisten. Maybe I am doing something wrong, albeit, I love the stones.
I got a small white stone in some kind of smith knife multi tool kit and have had it for years it was just little freebie that came with it but remember it saying it was an arkansas i dont think its anywhere close to 30,000 grit like japan but i run a little more course stone first then hit it with the smith and it makes a noticable diff when making fine intricate cuts
The most significant issue with Arkansas is that oil is mandatory. I've cut myself when my fingers on the blade got oily and slipped ahead of the blade. Waterstones get my vote simply because water is so much better than oil. What say you, Ricky? Is the oil worth it?
In order to legally sell any food you prepare in your kitchen, you MUST #1) Have a business license, #2) Get a health license (which requires passing a health inspection... in YOUR home), and #3) Get set up to pay the state the sales tax you collect (or dont collect, but you still will pay it). There are a number of states that have a "cottage industry" health license, which is a bit less strict than a full blown license, but you still MUST have these licenses or you will get shut down. Welcome to the USA and our bureaucratic red tape... that keeps us safe from the crazy people out there.
After watching this video I was inspired to dig out my stones I got when my dad died 10 years ago and pulled my generic cutco to a razor edge so ya, I'd say they last. He probably had them 25+ years and they still seem flat to me. A little beat up on the edges, but they got used for everything.
I use them on punches, dies, endmills, and the inserts. They are soft enough to not cut into the tool and they don't dig in like synthetic abrasives. I have some that will cut M2 steel but they only cut very slow. I have a coworker he works on tooling with a brown Norton rock. Its not any good after that.
The video implies the highest grit Arkansas is the translucent grade. From what I have read, surgical black Arkansas has finer grit than translucent Arkansas (of any color). Translucent is pricier than surgical black because of supply and demand and because of the relative rarity of the translucent grade.
The trouble with this video, IMHO, is that it is full of subjective opinion. By their very nature, natural stones vary across locations and even in dressing and surface preparation, making them all pretty much unique. One person's experience, therefore, is just that. I like and use Arkansas stones, and because I have a fairly big collection, over the years I've gravitated to ones that work the best for me. To my knowledge, there is no widely accepted standard for specifying the characteristics and performance of natural stones, or their use. Thx.
I really wish you’d do more videos with Arkansas stones and natural stones. Would love to see an Arkansas vs Synthetic whetstone showdown.
I would like to see more too!
I am all about the Arkan stones.
Much as the natural Japanese stones only appear in the unique strata that appears only in Japan, or Belgium stones appear only in the unique strata peculiar to Belgium, the Arkansas stone only appears in the unique strata of America in Arkansas. It seems worth a mention that these amazing stones are, global speaking, incredibly rare.
I started using a "Surgical Black Hard Arkansas" from A.G. Russel over thirty years ago in 78 or 79, sold to me by the late great A.G Russel. My only guide to sharpening at the time was the included instructions that came with the stone. It was capable of producing a true mirror polished edge that sliced through paper virtually soundlessly and would shave hair so effortlessly that there was no perception of cutting at all. Every stone, absolutely every single stone I've ever used since then has been a compromise to that stone.
Feedback is a variable controlled by the cutting fluid you use. When I got my first stone all I had was 3in1 oil. I've used many fluids since then. I've recently learned that the best fluid I've ever used can be made by combining a couple drops of orange oil with pure water.
A "good" honing oil makes a translucent or black Arkansas simply slippery to the edge. Dish soap and water is better, much better; but the best feedback comes with using orange oil and water. Orange oil is completely soluble and makes a milky honing "oil" that will show you the difference between "hard black" and "translucent" stones.
By the way: There's a significant difference between merely "black" stones, such as the one you're using in this video and the ultra rare "true black" Arkansas stone which is at least equal to or superior to the "translucent" Arkansas.
Also, by the way; you might consider saying a word about the recent passing of the great A.G. Russel. Although you are surely too young to know anything about him; my most treasured possession is my new "black" Arkansas stone given to me by A.G. Russel because I mentioned in a thank you note at least thirty years late, how the stone he'd sold me decades before had been broken. I hadn't mentioned even the slightest dissatisfaction with his product, yet he replaced it simply on my word it had broken in a flaw in the stone.
Arkansas stones are not unique to Arkansas. The generic name is novacullite, which is found in many places over the world. Arkansas' Ouachita mountains are the biggest known source with much of the highest purity stone. The country of Turkey has high quality novaculite, as well. The novaculite is made from the dead carcasses of diatoms, compressed on the bottom of the ocean from a long time ago.
@@mildyproductive9726
Thank you. I'm sure that's all true; but, where do you buy Turkish novaculite stones? No dispute. I'm sure they're out there somewhere. But, if the ONLY stones you can actually get come from Arkansas; then that's all you can get.
So far, any information I've ever seen for getting stone like this somewhere else is nothing more than words. I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm just saying information isn't the same as being able to actually put your hands on some of it.
@@JoeSevy I doubt you can buy it unless you live close to Turkey, today. Before the Ouachita stones were discovered, novaculite stones were exported from Turkey around the world, including to early America. They were well regarded... until the motherlode was discovered in Arkansas.
@@mildyproductive9726
I actually have a contact that could probably get me something from Turkey if I asked. But I've not been able to find any evidence of the existence of "Turkey Stones" whatsoever beyond a reference to a source that I can't find. I've seen two references from people who claimed to have "Turkey Stones", but without any reason why they believed they were Turkey Stones.
Anyone might claim to have anything. I make toast with a popup toaster made in 1926. The difference is that I can demonstrate what I'm saying is true, regardless of how improbable it sounds. A rock is a rock unless there's some test a geologist could perform to demonstrate it's origin.
In essence. There's no such thing as a "Turkey Stone" despite the probable fact that there are whole mountains of Novaculite in Turkey. I repeat. "In essence." If you can't lay your hands on one, point to one in a museum, point to historical references to them, then they're just a mythical object. Same thing with the "Turkey Stone" quarries. They have to actually exist somewhere on a map. Even if the stones were just produced by nameless artisans; the area they came from would likely have gained fame for that reason. We should be able to find the old, or modern quarries.
I can't find anything but empty claims.
Can you reference any primary sources for your claims?
@@JoeSevy No, you're right. It is just something I remember reading on the internet.
Wikipedia says novaculite occurs in the Middle East and Japan. More specifically, it states Lebanan, Syria, Israel. I don't know if Wikipedia is right, even. But if this was true, some of those stones conceivably got traded out of Turkey to the other continents.
Dans whetstone company has by far the best selection of Arkansas stones. Nice video never the less. Keep them coming.
Great stones. I learned how to free hand on Arkansas stones, and got my first hair whittling edge from Arkansas stones. I would definitely like to see you test them out on higher hardness steels, just because I hear people all the time saying they dont work on hard steels
they're used extensively in the straight razor community. lots or high carbon, definitely harder than the average kitchen knife.
Hey great video and honing oil is normally used but ask most sharpeners with lots of experience in these stones and soapy water is the way to go mainly because the stone will soak up the oil and become blackened over time also slows cutting time. That's the main reason for using soapy water over oil. Also anyone wanting the black stone Amazon has them in stock usually from best sharpening stone for about $65. I usually only go to black stone and then strop with compound for final polish. Cheap polish is mothers magnesium polish available Walmart or anywhere put some on a strop or piece of real leather and works great.
Deja vu time. I bought those exact four from Sharpening Supplies about five years ago. I put them away for a treat when I retired. That happened in August and they are due to come out any day soon...
So this video is just at the right time....
Thanks for the Arkansas video. I'm a new hobby knife sharpener. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of using a Arkansas with water vs oil. The grit feel comparison to ceramics was useful in this video. Keep up the good work.
I am with you about the meditative aspect of sharpening a knife and I am reading everything I can about this Arkansas stones so could you make a video comparing this Arkansas stones with other American stones or Japanese stones? Looking forward!
Man I would love to see a session on those stones.
The video is concise and fair, the latter quality being unknown in American journalism now. The 4 stones with their different grits and qualities are well covered, as are the differences--both pro and con--between the natural Arkansas stones and the synthetic Japanese stones. Too often we compare and contrast, as though it is a competition. I see the goal of these tools as being the same, to sharpen a knife. Hence, I use diamond stone plates, steel and ceramic honing rods, and both Japanese and Arkansas whetstones. But I am just an old Arkansas Hillbilly, so I keep it simple. Good job again on the information presented in the video.
Yeah, the black ark offers a modest polish but has the kind of crisp, snappy tactile feedback one would expect from a 600 grit synthetic stone. Love it.
i was a master barber when we sharpened our straight razors we used shaving cream instead of oil. worked great
I'm about to upgrade my sharpening kit and really appreciate this video. Although I've been sharpening since I was a child I've only recently began using anything other than a pocket stone. My current setup is a huge Norton 120/320 combo and a 4in soft arkansas to finish before stropping. I can spend $60. I'm torn between the Chosera 800 and the King kds 1000/6000. The thing is I really like oil. I would love to try one of those Arkansas hard blacks! It's a relaxing hobby for me and therefore 100% all about the feedback. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
From Dan's (DansWhetstone), their recommendation is to use oil as it suspends any particulate and preserves the stone. I have used water, but I only use oil now after learning the benefit to using it. I have their medium and fine stones. I use them for sharpening plane blades, chisels, and my kitchen knives. Three years later, they still are as flat as when they were new. Hopefully that helps!
Water and soap works just fine on the soft and hard. I think the water and soap feels much more aggressive as well. I have a water set and oil set. I don't know if the speed improvement is meaningful, but they do feel different depending on the lubricating agent. The black seems to like oil better.
Hi Ryky, I wanna thank you because what you have teaching me in the sharpening world until now, I'm Portuguese and planning now make my own channel, one more time, god bless you man!! Keep with the excellent content :)
I don't know if this is gonna come off as strange or not, but I have to say, I love the asian appreciation of the process. I really enjoy the process of making things and improving things, the journey is the enjoyment and the end result is a nice little reward. It is REALLY nice to see various people cultures in Asia who feel the same way, its great. we need more of that in America.
Oh btw I don’t mean to bash another company but “ DansWhetstone.com “ has the best quality of black stone. Personally I have found that the black stones from the providers you gave needed to be lapped before the surface was like glass. I had bought a black stone from one of those providers you mentioned and I had to lap it several times on progressively higher grit sandpaper before the surface became glassy. But the black stones from Dan’s Whetstone Co., came in already smooth as glass and the price was not that far off, plus I only live about an hour and a half away from the in Arkansas, so no shipping : )
Great oil stones. I have a 4” translucent my dad gave me a long time ago. It was so loaded up it was black. Got it flattened and it puts a nice mirror polish and a really nice edge. Been looking for a good surgical black but can never find any in stock. 👍 awesome video!
There's a few things to keep in mind with Arkansas stones. All grades have essentially the same "grit". Grit is the size of the abrasive particle (which is monocrystalline silica for novaculite) and is in a range of 3 to 5 microns for Arkansas stone. That's roughly equivalent to a 3000 to 5000 grit range in a Chosera or Shapton. So in terms of abrasiveness Arkansas stones are at the high end of what you might regard as a nakato or medium stone or at the low end for a finishing stone and in terms of cutting aggressiveness they tend to be quite slow due to their hardness. Personally, because they cut so slowly and aren't very abrasive I only use Arkies as a finishing stone or to touch up edges that are already pretty sharp.
I can't imagine you remember, but a while back I predicted your going down an Arkansas stone rabbit hole. Just when you think you're done, you'll be pulled back.
These work great for sharpening lawn mower blades, i have the pocket stones from dan's. You can use them with water but they clog up fast. Try both, you can get the oil out with acid if you don't like it
After a VERY tiresome time this deer season finding out just how dull my knives are, I ordered 3 of the Arkansas stones shown :P your review is so reassuring 👍now I have to check your other vids!
My black is my favorite Arkansas as well. The way it looks when slicked with oil is crazy...swirly and smooth. The only stones I can compare it to in that realm are my high grit shapton glass stones which have this crazy beading effect on water and a smooth, almost grippy feel to them. Arkansas stones are way overlooked, imo. They’re my favorite type of natural stone.
I grew up in Hot Springs, AR in and around the area where most of this Novaculite is quarried. I learned to sharpen on a set of these from my grandfather and I've never found anything that I liked better but they are definitely 'slower' than the super speedy Japanese synthetics and most people won't be thrilled with them if they're trying to put an edge on newer harder steel. They'll give you an edge but it can take quite awhile.
These are priced nicely. One would think, being a finite resource, they would be more expensive. I love the character of the soft stone. Might have to get one of these.
Hey Ryky, hope you’re doing well. Are there any major differences from your experience between Arkansas and Japanese natural stones? I have the choseras as splashes then the cerax/rika as my soaking and looking into getting a couple of naturals but ideally would want similar performance. Any recs would be appreciated. Thanks!
The Surgical Black gives great results. All my 6 straight razors will pass the single hair trend test.
On my surgical black 10x3x1 , it's lapped and I get see the marks from the teeth of the blade rake the light oil . Once that disappears , the blade is razor sharp and mine gives a bright mirror polish . My translucent cuts a lot faster but the black gives the finer edges . I'm from Arkansas , lived here all my life .trust me , no two Arkansas stones are alike . Dans whetstones sells the highest quality stones . ( just my opinion but shared by others ) Dan Kirschman the owner , is a geologist and mining engineer . Very nice man . He will tell you they are graded by density . I usually lap one side rough at about 80 grit after I've lapped it up to at least 600 grit . The other side is lapped to about 2500 grit with silicon carbide . I plan on using a true cast iron lap with diamond paste to lapped even flatter . The flatness helps me to hold my angle . Still have my soft from my teenage years , I'm 58 . Many in the shaving crowd use lapped surgical true hard black Arkansas for a reason . There's one other you didn't mention but it's little known , the rarest of them all . A blue-black translucent. That's the one that I learn to sharpen on . It takes the edge to the next level as rough rooster can testify. I had bought it for my dad back in the late 1970s . My experience is that the slower the stone , the finer the edge . My edges look convex , don't know if it's just me but I've looked with microscope . No micro bevels , but a true apple seed grind . My dad taught me how on that black translucent. To this day , I've never felt a smoother stone . AG Russell once lapped true blacks together with .25 micron diamond slurry for eye surgeons looking for the finest , sharpest edge for their scalpels . Some lap and use optical flats with helium laps to check flatness . Machinists have known about our oil stones for decades . Some don't use oil but soap and water or shaving soap . I've used both but prefer light oil . Anyway , I've watched your videos for years . Your skills are amazing ! Just subscribed
the black Arkansas stone is a magic stone, words from a master sharpener friend of mine.
I have the smith tri stone ! I definitely love the Arkansas stone !
So out of the box I won't have to flatten these stones. About how many hones would you say before flattening?
Just a tip for the oil,
They market it as a honing oil, which is just mineral oil.
If you want a food safe mineral oil, you can buy paraffin oil by the gallon in any drug store, and it would be a good "honing mineral oil", and since it is not marketed as "honing oil" you will of course pay a lot lot lot less.
honing oil is basically a rip off of the uninformed
really helpful!
Straight mineral oil is a bit thick. I'm experimenting with cutting the mineral oil with some odorless mineral spirits. The thinner oil makes sharpening go faster.
Arkansas stones are great. I sharpen my knives on them and even a my straight razor. The have great feedback and give a toothy edges. Great utility and combine with a good strop I get very sharp and comfortable straight razors.
Awesome video! A suggestion for your next one, maybe take a look at spyderco ceramic stones, they are less forgiving while sharpening but don't wear at all.
Best wishes
Hi there, what oil are you using on them? Thanks, Haitham, Rome
I've heard from people who have owned and used a lot of these over the years that even with the same type of stone let's say a translucent or a black there is variation and grades. So even if you get another black you might get a higher level of polish more comparable to an 8k. Also I've heard burnishing can help with getting a better finish.
Hey Ryky. I have been watching your knife sharpening videos, and I am learning a lot - great videos. A request: please consider doing a video on sharpening an EDC folding blade pocket knife. I know the principles are the same, but it would be good to see you do a tutorial on sharpening one. Many thanks.
R G you should check rough rooster sharpening out on UA-cam. He has a lot of EDC knives sharpening video. Very informative and very responsive
I was just thinking this morning about the differences in oil sharpening vs water. Have you tried any the Norton 3 stone oil systems?
good job brother, your channel has grown so much
Good video, been waiting awhile for it! I would love to see you do more videos stacking them against other stones but before you do talking to some pros with these stones so you can get there best performance vs your best performance waterstones. Couple of guys on youtube really know there stuff on these stones check them out like roughroostersharpening.
Have learned so much from you. May I ask what you wear on your right wrist. It is just amazing.
Oh my gosh...I've been waiting for so long. Great video
Hey Ricky, just subscribed. Thank you very much on the useful information you have provided so far - your videos are great! One question though, and this is just subjective, what would you say is the best range of knives that covers all uses for the home? I cook a lot of western style foods, but I am of asian ethnicity, so an asian cleaver is a must.
I have a King 1000/6000 whetstone and want your recommendation for a low grit and a high grit whetstone? I am still a beginner, less than one year, and cost is always an issue. Thank you so much for your excellent videos. Keep sharp!!
Absolutely!
Hi Rick...I think Burrfection must have misread your post...so I will try to answer your question. I own and use nearly every kind of high grit finishing natural whetstones worldwide. Including: German Eachers, Thuringians and Schwedensteins, Japanese Asagi and Suita, French Coticules, English Charnley Forest stones and Dalmore Blues, American Washita and Arkansas soft, hard, black, and translucent black stones. In my opinion the Arkansas translucent black stones give the finest possible edge from a natural stone. And I always finish with a few strokes on the trans Ark regardless of which other stones Ive used in the progression. But they do need some preparation before you get the best results. When I get a new Ark...I flatten both faces...then I polish one face with ever finer sandpaper up to 2k grit. The idea is to leave one side a bit courser so it cuts faster...but have the other side be very fine...to leave a finished edge. I use them to finish Sashimi knives and straight razors...which require the finest edges possible. Sadly...the best lower grit Washita stones are all mined out. You can still find them used on Ebay...but they are a little spendy. So...for a lower grit stone I would go with a soft Ark...or an inexpensive Japanese waterstone.
I have no affiliation with this company...other than buying my Arkansas stones from them. But they have the best prices and their stones are great. www.naturalwhetstone.com/productssharpening3.htm :Again...I would go with the translucent black...or the regular black. I own them both and they both work great. The trans is a little finer...but for knife sharpening the difference in performance is negligible...but sadly the difference in price is not. Hope this helps...cheers.
I really enjoy your tips and videos.. was wondering if you have a video on servicing serrated knives
Oil on the Soft Ark to help clear the swarf and not embed metal into the stone. Water and a drop of dish soap for the Hard, Translucent and black Ark.
Thank you!
My friend can you please tell me what kind of stone gives the sharpest knife edge, waterstone or oilstone?
It all depends on the individual stones. Japanese Awasedo (finishing stones), Belgian Coticule, German Thuringian...are all great Waterstones. And of course black and translucent Arkansas...as well as Charnley Forest stones...are great oilstones. However...I use water on all of them. But they will all produce an edge finer than you would ever need for knives...which is why they're mostly used for straight razors/kamisoris...which require the finest and smoothest edges possible.
I found this thing that looks like a black sharpening stone except it is completely smooth so I dont know what it is. Do you know what it is?
Belgian coticule next?
yup love to see that as well
What are your opinions on the hard black stone vs the chosera 800 or 3k stone.
Can I use beard oil?
For arks You should should go on the bay and spring for a labelled lily white or rosy red washita. It's a different thing entirely. True one stone solution. Keep one side rough and let the other side wear in fine.
Water with a few drops of glycerine works superbly and is not as messy as mineral oil.
Ben waiting for this and the Debados...hehehehe. Great video! Greg B.
Nice video Rick, woodworkers and carvers really like Arkansas stones, is the corse stone called a washita? I am planing on buying a belgian coticule stone just to test how it performs, i used green slate whetstones and they gave good feed back but natural stones do cut slow. I really like this videos u make on natural stones hope to se you test out some different natural stones, as i observed all regions have there own natural stones.
Hi Ryky,
great video.. i was really waiting for your take on Arkansas stone.
Still eyeing on a good Black Arkansas.
btw. Would like to get your opinion on a Lily White.
thank you..
2 cents regarding push vs push/pull: neither.
My favorite way to sharpen a knife on an arkansas stone is to draw it over the edge of the stone like a steel or ceramic rod using just a very very slight angle to favor the near edge of the stone (the edge by the hilt). Then to sharpen the tip of the knife, draw the knife from belly to tip over the far edge of the stone. It helps to knock down the corners of the stone (and the edges, too) so that the edge of the stone doesn't get dished. With a soft slurry stone, this would be useless. The slurry would not get used, effectively, and the edge of the stone would just disintegrate for no reason. On a hard stone, this sharpens faster with less bur formation, and it allows you to feel exactly where there are any defects in the edge and to focus on those spots. Circles work great for faster/coarser work (still slightly favoring the edge of the stone), then finishing with the draw strokes.
It would be improbable that anyone would try this on a large super flat expensive stone that is a work of art. Don't try it on your good stone, because it will wear the edges. Best to try this on a smaller, cheaper stone, first. If you like it you may convert all your hard stones to this method, convexing these stones and rounding over the edges and knocking down the corners. The stone would look a little like the top of a loaf of bread after many years of sharpening (or via intentional shaping), with just a slight curve on the surface. All of the razor factories in Solingen used grossly convexed hard stones for sharpening their razors for over a century.
The stone also won't load or glaze, which can happen if sharpening a straight, flat blade against a flat ark stone using push strokes. By using a small area of the stone, the stone actually wears fast enough to refresh rather than glaze. Different stones do work better with different techniques. Just throwing another one out there. You'll find that people who put the blade flat against a flat arkansas stone and who do a lot of sharpening, these guys will occasionally "refresh" the surface of the stone with a diamond plate when it starts to glaze. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm curious as to why you wouldn't normally do push and pulls with an Ark. stone? Thanks.
Dab with toilet paper when cleaning the stones. Best method I've found. It does a great job picking up the swarf with the oil
ETA:typo
black Arkansas is finer than translucent, speaking from what i once thought too, it's the other way around from what you'd expect, so you listed those out of order
Burrfection, What mat are you using under your stones on your table?
amzn.to/2DHvY08
Ive put a mirror polish on vanadium steel with a hard arkansas stone. Just takes a lot of time.
Is there a link to the actual stones in the video?
DANS has the best Arkansas Stone
Hi, i have a preyda series of arkansas stones and i have seroius problems with what you call tactile sensation. i totally dislike eit and i fear this is due to the surface conditioning i used. i like to feel stone gripping in the steel, some interaction between them. this is what i joyfully obtained finishing the translucent wit SiC 400 grit, and maybe this will work also on the black surgical. on the blacke hard and the white hard the problem semms more complicated, looks like i need to keep them a degree more rough than the others need. i don't like that greasy feeling i have. Can you tell me how do you condition the surface of your stones? i make and sharpen razors nad tried also the "dressed surface" with Alox 4000: the beginning is really frustrating. With any other stone i pop a hair 4 in from the anging point, here the stuff looks more comlicated. How do you condition their surface? thanks. Emidio, italy.
would be useful to clear the situation and improve the information of the video that i can hear the sound made by the stone. it helps a lot to understand the kind of job made by the tone. thanks again,
Ryky, were you using water or oil on the Ark. stone?
I jumped the gun.... Thx
Did you use oil or water on these stones
I use liquid dish soap and water for best results.
I found a black rectangle stone that’s light and feels similar to charcoal and I’m not sure if it’s a sharpening stone or not. Could anyone clarify for me?
The single characteristic every 'sharpening stone' I've ever seen shared was density.
That said, the only characteristic that matters is if it produces an acceptable edge for you. If it sharpens your knife, it's a sharpening stone. If not, then it's not a sharpening stone.
Blue black Arkansas Stone is what you're looking for in a polishing stone😊
The perfect mix of stones is a norton India stone with coarse/medium then some Arkansas stones.
Hell yeah they are!! Great video!!!
I have those very stones and I use the black last and get a very high mirror polish on my knives. Y might try hitting the translucent before you go to the black.
hi that is water or oil stone?
all water but the arkansas is oil, though you CAN use water.
A useless comment from me. I have the superfine white and the ultra black. When I use either, the stones are so slick and it takes a lot of work to get the edge to glisten. Maybe I am doing something wrong, albeit, I love the stones.
I got a small white stone in some kind of smith knife multi tool kit and have had it for years it was just little freebie that came with it but remember it saying it was an arkansas i dont think its anywhere close to 30,000 grit like japan but i run a little more course stone first then hit it with the smith and it makes a noticable diff when making fine intricate cuts
30,000 grit Japanese natural...I call BS!!!
The most significant issue with Arkansas is that oil is mandatory. I've cut myself when my fingers on the blade got oily and slipped ahead of the blade. Waterstones get my vote simply because water is so much better than oil. What say you, Ricky? Is the oil worth it?
You don't have to use oil. I use Dawn and water.
In order to legally sell any food you prepare in your kitchen, you MUST #1) Have a business license, #2) Get a health license (which requires passing a health inspection... in YOUR home), and #3) Get set up to pay the state the sales tax you collect (or dont collect, but you still will pay it). There are a number of states that have a "cottage industry" health license, which is a bit less strict than a full blown license, but you still MUST have these licenses or you will get shut down. Welcome to the USA and our bureaucratic red tape... that keeps us safe from the crazy people out there.
Can u sharpen a pocket knife? I would love to see if ur method works for it
the translucent is actually more aggressive than the black
Do these stones last a lifetime?
Many lifetimes!!!
After watching this video I was inspired to dig out my stones I got when my dad died 10 years ago and pulled my generic cutco to a razor edge so ya, I'd say they last. He probably had them 25+ years and they still seem flat to me. A little beat up on the edges, but they got used for everything.
I use them on punches, dies, endmills, and the inserts. They are soft enough to not cut into the tool and they don't dig in like synthetic abrasives. I have some that will cut M2 steel but they only cut very slow. I have a coworker he works on tooling with a brown Norton rock. Its not any good after that.
I would love to see head to heads between these and synthetics.
The video implies the highest grit Arkansas is the translucent grade. From what I have read, surgical black Arkansas has finer grit than translucent Arkansas (of any color). Translucent is pricier than surgical black because of supply and demand and because of the relative rarity of the translucent grade.
How can I sharpen steel s110v?
Love this
glad to hear it
Many folks are confusing whet with wet and vise versa.
They get smoother and burnished with use.
You're awesome
Have you ever tried sharpening on the cheap chinese emerald stones?
i m Chinese,if riky need anyone i can brought all kinds to him,but in our sharpening community think chinese natural stone is not so good
You can get a 3 set of these for 65 bucks on amazon now
Cool!
The slurry from Japanese synthetics can get messy for sure a lot else than Arkansas
I just found out I have one that was from my deceased grandfather
Arks all day......
i love them. there is something very special about them
The trouble with this video, IMHO, is that it is full of subjective opinion. By their very nature, natural stones vary across locations and even in dressing and surface preparation, making them all pretty much unique. One person's experience, therefore, is just that. I like and use Arkansas stones, and because I have a fairly big collection, over the years I've gravitated to ones that work the best for me. To my knowledge, there is no widely accepted standard for specifying the characteristics and performance of natural stones, or their use. Thx.
This app is interesting
Thanks for removing my comments 👍
Pride Abrasive Inc makes a far better stone, although they are not true stones from the earth like those.
Go on ebay and buy a charnley forest if you want western natural knife sharpening's greatest monster.