Should Twitch Streamers Pay Their Moderators | Asmongold Reacts
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Video by Ludwig Mogul Mail • Should Twitch Streamer...
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Never do unpaid work for successful entertainers.
@@npcknuckles5887 what power XD
@@npcknuckles5887 Sounds like a bunch of losers lmao Can't do anything worthwhile in their real life so they take any little power they can get. For free. Lol
True
@@npcknuckles5887 "I want to enforce rules for the plantation owner so I get more power, authority and privileges but still no pay."
In general never work for free.
"If you pay them, it creates a weird dynamic"
It's called employment.
@@w1mark275 Yeah, that's called employment...
yeh cant wait to hear that flex at the bar next time lol
If a streamer is so big that a being mod requires the same amount of work as a job, they should be paid.
If there are people who wants to be mods for free, just to be one. Why should a steamer have to pay them if they get what they want in the first place
@@bankaihampter2802 because they're exploiting someone naivety
@@thesupreme8062 what if it's not naivety though? What if they just want to help mod the place without any expectation of getting paid in the future.
@@thesupreme8062 how are they exploiting them? What do you expect them to do "shoo go on git you've been here too long go do something productive that actually gets you money" what kind of entertainer says that to their audience?
Reason I learned NOT to pay a mod
1) Only some people can afford to hire and pay their mods
2) Some mods suck at their job
3) You might suck at payroll and accidently pay people who don't even show up to work for a year.
4) Mods are easily replaceable and you can always find interns to work for free
5) Once you start paying people it creates a weird dynamic almost like work with you as a boss and being a boss isn't always fun.
6) People sometimes get in disputes with their boss and they might say mean things about you.
Bonus:: Mods who do it for free are devoted fanatics and it will be hard to find new fanatics once actual job applicants apply
Reasons TO pay a mod
1) It makes me feel good giving money
2)They are actually doing work and should probably get some money
3) I make millions a year and the fair market rate is so small i wouldn't even notice except when i want to for reason 1
Note: top 100 streamers should pay something to the mods... even the top 1000 should give a Arby's gift card at Christmas at least
*NEVER* provide a service or product for free unless it's for charity. Doesn't always have to be money, but you should receive something of equal value in exchange.
I’m really glad to hear about editors cuts on UA-cam. Good to see Asmon providing that, which betters both himself and his otherwise unpaid staff.
Editors are not mods.
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the editors for his youtube channels dont get cuts, they literally get 100% of the revenue that they earn
@@Edigor100 this comment on a video where he says he pays by %. Also, "they literally get 100% of the revenue that they earn" doesn't mean anything and saying "literally" to emphasize a point, especially one that doesn't make sense, is not smart.
@@Edigor100Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
The reasons for big streamers not paying mods are the same for big companies to not pay workers...interesting.
what company doesn't pay it's workers??
@@NeravarSneed86 "the reasons" =/= doing it. There are laws forcing companies pay their workers, else they would pay them in worker slips they can use to buy things at the work "commissary." Oops, that's happened a lot before laws stopped it. Weird. :P
My thoughts exactly! 👏
It's like an unpaid internship
@@NeravarSneed86 Wage theft is one of the most common crimes in America, so the answer is "many, too many".
Dont pay them, but dont expect them to be there when you need them either.
@@jamesroy791 and they're usually not paid 🤣😭😂✊🤣🤣😭
trust me these ppls are to parasocial, they would pay streamers to be mods on their streams
But then they won’t be a mod anymore and someone else with take their place
Its time for asmond to pay Mcconell! He deserves at least a wendys kids menu for everyday he saved asmoms stream over the years! Oh and the moderators get a MacD happy meal with extra chicken nuggets, cause asmon is a merciful god
cringe
He already regarding the payment for dragonflight
@@fatihzirek7440 get a life clown.
Im pretty sure Asmongold have paid Mcool
@@R3M13Nyeah I agree, this has the usual commie feel of this generation
Twitch Streamers: Don't pay mods!
Also Twitch Streamers: Mods, ban that guy!
I would love to see what would happen if these big time streamers didn't have a single mod for a week
Idk, but if all mods went on strike, they'd be replaced quickly by other subs.
All streamers have at least one bot with mod privileges, I would guess that the auto timeout / auto ban word list would just get much more strict and people would get banned left and right.
Nothing, because there are thousands of people who are willing to do mod work for free. If one person stops doing it, someone else would just take their place.
Near impossible since people will do jani work for free
That would never happen because there are hundreds of superfans foaming at the mouth to do janny work for free. That would be like asking, "what if the sun stopped rising tomorrow?" Yes it hypothetically could happen, but no, it almost certainly won't.
Yes if you are going to expect them to fit around your full time schedule. Then pay them like a full time job.
Fuck no lol, it's a volunteer job. Nobody becomes a twitch mod expecting to be paid
No, just get more of them to cover all hours. Mods are a dime a dozen and easily replaceable. Twitch is a beacon for parasocial andys. There will always be more.
Who is expecting that? If you aren't there or on as a mod, you don't get in trouble... Lol there is no expectation...
@@arosbastion7052 That's the problem. It's abusing the labor of people with extraordinarily poor judgment who are simping over an internet B celebrity. Labor laws should protect these andys from themselves. This is exactly why minimum wage is a thing
@@manoqueenz depends. Is it something that they can choose to do on their free time or not depending whether they feel like it. If that's the case they are basically just officers in a WoW guild.
I agree if you're a bigger streamer pay your mods if you don't get paid enough to pay your mods than that's fine to at least give them subscription or something (depending how many mods you have and how well they do), I get paid by subscriptions every month and that's fine I love streamers emotes and the person I mod for isn't big enough for us to get paid, yet! lol
@Ambridge The fact you think this person was serious is cringe. The fact you used AF is cringe. No one expects to be payed when moderating for small streamers when you're only there to support them in the first place. This conversation was only brought up to address "BIG" streamers that expect things from mods while not paying them. This is exploitative... Timeouts and Bans/Unbans aren't the only thing mods do. Please enlighten us as to what you think mods do cause your version is not in reality. Sure there are inconsistent mods and mods that are just fans. It's obvious that they shouldn't be payed. It isn't hard to create some oversight to make sure things are getting done. Monetary incentive creates a valuable/better environment for all parties involved.
theres a streamer i watch who actually does donation nights for his mods, so all donations are passed on to them. he does that every so often, which i think would be a good middle ground for those who dont want to "pay" mods like they are a boss.
Oh that's cool! especially if you're making like millions dollars you can't afford to throw some money their way what the f***? Lol
That's awesome
The second the entertainer/ streamer is monetized mods, editors, any one working behind the scenes should be paid, but like Asmond said it should be a percent base and based on how much work they do. Also it now makes them employees to the entertainer/ streamer meaning they can be fired for lack of productivity, and incompetence… just my opinion tho…
Most streamers? Definitely not. But the streamers who have millions of dollars and have chats with 20k+? Absolutely. Some of the arguments I've heard against it is pretty outlandish. They are like "well someone is always willing to do it for free?" Well so what? A third world worker is willing to do most work for 2 dollars an hour in a sweatshop for Nike but that doesn't make it moral or right. If you have the money and the means, paying those who do labor for you appropriately is ALWAYS a just cause.
@@wolverize9707 LMAO. Because they don't have to that makes it okay? That rational could justify literally anything.
@@wolverize9707 💀 Well NOW I self liked it. Sure man keep coping
@@dereklewis4321 sure I have 9 accounts 💀 its like im in a cod lobby in 2007 again and im being called a hacker but im actually just better than that guy. ratio + L
Handshake + first bump = Turkey
True
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They don‘t have to pay them, but then they also can‘t expect a super pro mod for free, pretty easy math.
Exactly. Its people who work for attention. You get what you pay for, the payment is giving then a sprinkle of direct interaction every now and then
@@an3582 Aka exploitation through recognition. Why would anyone support that precedent. Not every mod is deserving of compensation, but you'd be surprised how much a streamer relies on the ones who provide actual value to their business. It's not hard to throw a few chips their way when they make over 6 figures a year. These deserving mods trade in their time which does make it a job regardless of your opinions.
This shouldnt even be a question and the fact it is and the fact that people really do work for free, for celebrities, (bc lets be honest that's what they are) is insane.
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Yes, I get why small streamers don’t if they can barely pay pay themselfs cuz just starting out or only having income to support 1 person. But I honestly always assumed the large streamers started paying them. Maby not the ones who only make like mid to low two figures a yr. But ones that make high six to 7 figs, I couldn’t blame there mods if they asked em to pay up.
Guys guys, not paying mods is not the same thing as companies who don't pay their workers enough, why do i see so many people thinking like this??
A minimum wage job is a job you do to make money, not usually because you like what youre doing. Being a mod is volunteer work, if someone wants to mod they can, if someone doesnt want to mod unless they are compensated, just don't mod, either do it cause you like to or dont do it.
Obviously i think its good when successful streamers give back to the mods that have helped them but they are not obligated to give back. Sure mods do, i would assume, a resonable amouny of work but its nothing they have to do, again its volunteering for a streamer you like, helping them since their content probably helped you in various ways even if just by entertaining you.
If someone is providing you a service, you should be compensating them for it, bar none. If you can't afford to pay them, moderate your own shit.
@@npcknuckles5887 So because someone might not be intelligent or knowledgeable enough to know they're being taken advantage of, that makes it okay to do simply because they agreed to it?
The only people who would be stupid enough to moderate for free are exactly the type of people you don't want moderating. That's why the issue of "powertripping mods" is so prevalent on Twitch, Reddit, Discord, you name it.
Desirable people for moderating do not have time to spend 8-12 hours in a day sitting there watching a scrolling chatlog for free. They're busy doing things that actually reward their time and put food on their table. If you don't pay your moderators, you're only ever going to get people with nothing better to do: teenagers, people who can't hold down a job and/or mooch off their parents, and the socially challenged.
A substantial amount? Maybe not, but like some money to grab some food during the stream and such for a larger streamer would seem to be a sensible approach
@@mogalixir have people acting like "workers" for you, but not paying them for their work.
sounds nice
Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing that mods who provide value to a streamer should receive livable wages as a twitch mod lol. That would be hilarious though and I do see the possibility of some pushing the idea. 😂
for the top 1% streamers makes sense to pay to their mods, for the other 99% is just not sustainable, but there's another layer to this, some of this mods also manage and help with discord channels, this is not easy work and requires a lot of time commitment
Yeah but paying them would also mean atm they would have to be sitting doing nothing but moderating as that is essentially their job now, at least 20-40 hours a week depending on the pay, oh watching the stream and playing games meanwhile ? Would now get you fired.
yeah for example for someone like quin it makes sense, they do a shitton of work for him, but for someone like 4sen they literally do nothing
Wanting to mod for free is peak parasocial behaviour
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Absolutely. Minimum wage. All these big earning streamers underplay how rich they actually are. Don't be disillusioned by their ability to make what hurts them even a little seem ridiculous. They hate sharing and they're never satisfied.
Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ❤️
It’s amazing how people fail to realize how much less entertaining/good a stream would be with zero mods.
Depends... Old twitch was a good time
@@GiodyneSTG lol
Moderators should get a cut of overall revenue. Then they are incentivized to enable and contribute to the streamer's success.
then they take the stream to shits...
lol
NAWWWWT LULE
no
Yeah, I got banned on Lud's stream for calling Johnny Depp "Johnny Slepp" during the trial... That's mods.
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Professional mods that are expected / hired to work almost every stream and do as asked should be paid. Those who volunteer and show up whenever it suits them and are effectively chatters with mod powers aren't professional. Never go out of your way to work for free for a successful millionaire or public figure. Free labor has been a plague on the internet since the time when people offered to pay others with "exposure" to work on a site or idea that makes them a lot of money (and provides no other type of benefit). I know some streamers that have a lot of subscribers essentially give donations and bits to their mod teams if they are known to put in work despite not being hired or full time. But I can't blame those that take advantage of their fame to get free labor; MMO companies actually charge hundreds of not thousands to test their games nowadays. Business is all about finding someone stupid and selling them something. It's why Blizzard is so monetarily successful with their games lately despite everything.
I think when you break... 1k...5k viewers good mods unfortunately will no longer be able to enjoy/pay attention to most content. In those cases I think it would be worthy to start paying a couple people and I'm in total agreement with it being a percentage during that time. If it's an exceptionally difficult stream maybe bump it for that stream.
1k andys are not among enough money to pay their mods
@@orionfell I follower 2 streamers that are in the 1k and they both pay editors/mods to do things for them on stream and on UA-cam. Don't worry, 1k Andies aren't all poor, some know that to be successful (have money) they can't just be on Twitch, they also have to be on UA-cam and take sponsorships.
If the mods are expected to moderate your stream for a lot of hours, in for example a subathon, they should be paid. If its a situation where the streamer has like 100 mods and they pop in and out whenever, i dont think it really matters.
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Most of the big streamers in my country pay their mods. It's usually done by splitting donation money.
It's really not hard to draw the line on which mods to pay and which ones to not. Write up an employment contract with expected hours. Then employ the ones you need for those hours.
I dont really think they necessarily should be.
Its volunteer work, these people can stop doing the work whenever they feel like it if they dont want to do it anymore.
This whole idea that most streamers cant give their mods like $50 a week to at least pay them SOMETHING is a joke though.
Don't even need to watch the whole video to say YES. Not saying mods should be able to afford a car out of it but a pizza and a shake for the time investment. Big streamers should absolutely fairly compensate their mods for their work that benefists the streamer first and foremost.
Fair compensation is subjective though. Like I think nothing is fair. Should Reddit mods be paid? Modding on the internet has always been a volunteer position and it should stay that way. If a streamer becomes big enough that they require a dedicated mod team, that's different, but that and corporate streams are like the only exception I can think of.
@@TheDarkLasombra it is subjective indeed and most times probably just a gentleman's agreement. However just like with actual volunteer work (in Holland you get some compensation for volunteering, no where near a full salary but something) at a certain point or work load, especially for the benefit of someone else you should benefit as well in my view.
@@TheDarkLasombra If your stupid enough to do work for free, there is a certain amount of "you deserve to have your time waisted", however that dosent also make people just not paying people for their time good either. Your either an idiot for doing it, or a scumbag for exploiting them. Both should be mocked. But this will continue, because people form weird parasocial relationships, where they idolize some person on the internet, and the streamer will exploit it.
I don't see why not especially if you want good mods who are working on your schedule, and especially for well off streamers.
It's interesting how influencers are getting into fighting sports, like what the hell is the crossover?
Technically should be paid. But what the streamers don't realize/don't want to admit is that it adds responsibility. Streamers usually aren't that great with responsibility. You gotta start becoming more like a business owner thats running a business that manages a community. The argument that the 'free' moderators suck is kind of oxymoronic. That should be a constant in our society. The real issue is that they're trying to have their cake and eat it too.
Sure the extra work sucks but the top end streamers are falling into a part of the spectrum where they're getting loads of work for practically no cost, in respects to the size of the income. It comes to a point where the streamers are merely over-leveraging, especially if they can't demonstrably function without capable moderator support of some kind.
Although it is also kind of on the mods who agree to do work for free.
If you respect your mods and the amount of work they do, you pay them. If the mods screw around and don't really add any value, they work for free. It's simple really. Know your worth. If you work for free, you've determined your worth from the get go and the streamer will take advantage of you. It's no different than what an employer would do. I repeat, Know Your Worth.
Streaming is a business basically. If you are generating millions, you should pay your employees.
There will always be simps that can be taken advantage of though. Comes down to the streamer's ethics and greed since there are no rules or unions.
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Not basically, it 100% IS a business. You're completely right though. Simps will be simps. Greed and ethics will be thrown away when big money is to be made for streamers. Shit world we live in.
I think they should be compensated in at least some way, depending on how much they actually do. If they're more like personal assistants, then yes definitely.
One time a guy just started cleaning my windshield. I said "PLEASE STOP" and I backed away. He looked soooo pissed hahaha.
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what a good point to end the clip on lol.
People take things so seriously. like dang.
should streamers pay their moderators is the same question as should twitch pay streamers. eventually everyone has to get paid for their work.
If you're expecting someone to show up every time and be there to do a job you should absolutely pay them.
@@ogaimon3380 because they’d be there anyway
I think the problem is the power dynamic. It's basically the same thing as paying through exposure. Like the example near the end where the guy threatened to kick his mod for even asking about pay. I'm sure there are streamers that are like "I don't care that your mom died get on and moderate or I'll ban you!"
Exactly. It's a greedy ass mentality that these big streamers have. It's exploitive and awful. I wouldn't ever let someone walk all over me like that. I don't care who you are. When a streamer is paid a high 6 figure to a 7 figure salary the least they can do is throw a few chips to a mod that provides value to your business. That would actually incentivize them to be more productive. Why have they created this big deal over paying your inner circle of productive mods. The casual stream watching mod that doesn't really do anything other than timeout/ban or unban someone occasionally is obviously not a part of this conversation. They aren't inner circle mods.
@@purp2883 It's because most mods are kids that they are exploiting.
@@Untolddead I wouldn't say they are all "kids" necessarily, but the majority are young adults that don't know how to advocate for themselves when trading in their time. Sadly there are most likely 100 people in line that would work for free as a mod so they aren't in a position to advocate for pay as it could burn a bridge with their favorite streamer. Also kids typically don't have a work ethic so the chatters might definitively be kids, but the hard working mods prolly not.
I think if you can afford it. You should give your best/dedicated moderators a nice "christmas" bonus. Whatever is comfortable to you afford as a streamer. They do provide a free service to help make your streams better. You should at least do something to let them know you appreciate them and care for what they do for you.
if they appreciated them and cared they would pay, its taken for granted that some1 will want to mod for free. its like an unpaid internship which is ok but after youve gotten the exp or connection you came for you move on so you can start supporting urself. dont work for free ever volounteering is one thing but i dont recommend unpaid internships
Imagine not paying caretakers, house cleaners(maids) or janitors.. that's what mods basically are
I don't use twitch, so I'm not sure about how mods work, but isn't it a volunteer thing? Or are mods endorsed by the creator? Because, if its a volunteer thing then no, I don't think there is an inherent responsibility to pay them unless a creator wants to. If, however, they are endorsed by the creator, then yes, there is an implied value that needs to be reimbursed.
today I learnt that the real reason asmon looks the way he does is to avoid having to pay tips because nobody would expect him to afford it
Imagine being in a culture that harps on people for bring "simps" for donating money to your favorite streamer, and yet the entire job is dependant on fans that become permanent interns that donate their free time to do thankless work and get shit on the moment they drop the ball.
Like who's the real simp, the guy who donates a day's work of wages a week, or the guy who donates 30 hours a week of labour?
perform a function for a millionaire that is essential to their livelihood, they better throw something your way.
I like Asmon’s take, sounds like his inner circle gets compensated.
Yeah I agree it's essential when not all the work being done by mods is just timeouts/bans/unbans. There is a lot more being done behind the scenes. When a streamer expects mods to work with no incentive other than recognition by the streamer I find that exploitative, greedy and a bit egotistical in my opinion. I'm glad to see Asmon's inner circle definitely gets compensated. It's wise not to openly discuss it for legal reasons, but his hints were there.
@@purp2883 even the things you mentioned as exceptions- while easy, it’s still work the steamer would otherwise have to do. I’m not saying they should get a living from it, but I dunno, throw 20$ their way
You know what I want asmon, screw the money I just want another steak review video.
I wouldn't say pay mods a regular salary/wage but you would do well to reward dedicated ones who are making your life easier.
in my opinion: paying mods should be done if you are over a certain line in streaming popularity. get paid hourly based on time spent in a stream, have the twitch dm's be a clock in/out for each mod, track their time weekly, and pay as a normal job would.... i feel like thats the best way for streamers, but i agree with asmon for the "youtube team" : the better the video does, the more they get paid.....
Quin pay his mods, but they are literally carrying his stream alot of the times. He even used to run subathons were 50% of the revenue went to the top moderators doing the most work.
Honestly I have no problem with mods being paid, especially for the top 1% of streamers.
That said, there are also a bunch of issues that come with it. What if your mod goes rogue or uses their power to sexually harass/abuse people? Now rather than just kicking them out, you have to go through the legal arbitration, etc. If it is expected that they need to treat modding like a job, then yeah by all means pay them. However, if mod is just a trusted chatter with the power to ban people and they can come and go as they please then I don't think they should really get paid.
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I feel like I agree and understand Asmon's point of view, but I also get the T1 pov as well. If there was never any expectation of payment, I think it's entitled to think someone owes you this. The fact is you became a mod because you wanted to be a mod, and if they aren't giving you what you feel you deserve in exchange then don't do it
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The excuse people use to not pay their mods is kind of ridiculous and Its weirdly parasocial too. Just because you excitedly signed up for it means you shouldn't get paid? Its stupid. It comes across as "The experience to mod for your favorite streamer is your payment! :)"
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Yeah it's bullshit. I always thought big streamers paid their mods. I was shocked to know they don't....
You could compare this to Realtors paying for transaction coordinators, the ones who can afford it, and believe its worth it to them do it, and those who can't, just do it themselves.
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I am surprised mods have not tried suing creators for unpaid labor yet. It would just take one winning in court to set a precedent and could become a nice cash grab for moderators across all platforms.
Sue with what money? They ain't getting paid 🤣
@Kova most law firms would take it on for a big chunk of the settlement but no cost to the person doing the suing. Since it looks like a clear violation of labor laws (for profit entities can't have volunteers) there would probably be tons of firms specializing in labor willing to pick it up.
@Absol StoryofFiction they are doing work for a for-profit business without compensation. There is absolutely grounds to sue.
@Absol StoryofFiction what does a contract have to do with anything? In the US you cannot have volunteers work for your company unless it's a non-profit. People that have been working without pay for a business have excellent grounds to sue.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615it is possible to have a verbal contract. See Uniform Commercial Code law. The original comment does have some validity towards it if there was consideration on both ends, the the streamer would have to prove that whatever the mods were doing did not expect $$ in return.
The streamers would most likely get away with not paying them
I've done graphic design work for free for a few steamers - but in exchange they promote me on their stream, Links to my services are in custom commands and the timed ones, and my overlay for ko-fi account and a tip alert for it are in their overlay.
They got professional overlays, transitions, and video edits and I drummed up business through promotions. I would still expect commission on edits as well.
Why? Because if you're talented or skilled, you should never do something for free.
Unfortunately, while there are mods of varying quality and attentiveness, modding is a very entry level kind of job, technically easy to replace. I've not come across a mod that is so invaluable that it would effect a streamer if they left.
Depends on what the mod is doing. Gettin paid just to filter out no no words is wild to me. I used to mod for streams that had hundreds or even thousands of viewers granted that was on YT not twitch and I couldn't imagine asking for money. It was something I did because I wanted to not because I expected anything out of it. If you're treatin it like a job that's a you problem.
Part of the issue might also be that paying too little might be worse than not paying at all.
yeah this could likely be more exploitative since any compensation will to a degree establish some obligation on the moderator's part
Theres levels to mods, theres some that are just well known and are personalities amd others who do tasks that keep the stream function, whips, etc
And just how theres levels to mods, theres a correspondence of pay to the mods
YES they absolutely should, time is money and if you're not willing to pay your mods who keep in mind contributes to your stream. Its basically a full time job.
Not really. The problem is that there is an almost infinite amount of people willing to do that job for free. If you pay somebody, you should expect them to be there always when the stream is on.
Streamers who make 1k+ per stream should definetly pay their mods, if streamer barely makes 100 per month, then its up to gentleman agreement.
Agreed. If you make over $1k per stream, definitely pay them as you can afford it.
Say a streamer makes 1k a stream, does 30 streams in a month, makes 30k that month. They have a mod team of 5 and each person is paid a standard $15 minimum wage. If each stream is 8 hours then the mod team ends up with $600 while the streamer themselves walk away with $400.
@@ShaggyDabbyDank Thats only off ad rev and dono's most get 30k-100k advertisment offers, and nobody is saying insitutue a hourly wage, however absolutely no pay and a complete lack of respect of any of their work or time is bonkers
I would disagree with 1k since some actually need it for a living, it allways depends on how often you stream, how well the mods do their job and how much the creator needs the money irl
@@LofiCameron "Most get" No, I don't think most twitch streamers do get advertisment offers to the tune of 30K-100K. The top 5% of streamers might.
There is no mental gymnastics that these guys can do that will convince people that mods shouldn't get paid.
The mods of sucssesful streamers likely have to be active before and after every stream. Dedicating the same amount of time as the streamer.
If the streamer expects the mods to work In a professional way and provide a service then the mods should be compensated for their service.
If you dont require your mods to provide a service then dont pay them. It just depends on the quality of person you want.
You want the guy that treats it like a full time job just like the streamer and takes it seriously? Then you gotta make it worth while for them to take it seriously.
There is a level of moderator that is WORKING and there is a level of moderator that just pops in and does nothing.
If you feel as if the person is putting work in. Then compensate them for their work if you want it to continue indefinitely.
let's say it like that. i value my time too much to work fulltime for someone for free.
I mean couldn't there just be a system for this one way or another on Twitch? Sure let it be optional but I don't see a reason why that it couldn't just be implemented.
Does the Mod do work?
Is the work they do profitable to the streamer?
Is the streamer (actually) profitable on a "black and red" basis?
If yes above, then yes the Mod should get compensation.
I think it comes down to, you signed up for this, essentially volunteering and you cant get upset if they don't want to pay you if they become rich. Just don't dedicate all this time to something for free if you are expecting it to become paid, this isnt an internship, this isnt training for another job.
Don't work for free, and don't expect your volunteering job to become paid, and don't blame the streamer for you signing up to begin with.
Problem is you can't have "volunteers" as a for profit organization. Why do you think the unpaid intern is not a big thing anymore. Look up the primary beneficiary test. While they might not want to pay they are legally required to and in not doing so they are breaking US law. Btw the pay for a 2 hour stream is minimum wage so yeah it's cost is like 14$
@@badger_ninja8681 Exactly. The list of work duties that these mods do for big streamers go way beyond the ban hammer. I guess it's hard for people to understand that. They are trading their time in to help a business which happens to be for a streamer. Regardless, they should be compensated. I'd say they only volunteered in the first place because they received special attention from the streamer. Who wouldn't want that from their favorite streamer. They were then taken advantage of and exploited. This isn't the case for every mod, but the streamer knows which mods provide value for them and which ones are there casually. Just pay them ffs!
Imagine doing free labor for millionaires
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As others here already pointed out: Never do unpaid work for successful entertainers, ever.
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The bigger streamers should pay their mods for sure, but I think they should pay them per stream so that way they get paid for being there during the stream and actually moderating.
So, essentially a commission system? Or, I guess, more like treating a mod like a contractor...
I modded for a partnered streamer named Vondle a few years back. I stepped down because it was too much to handle for no monetary return. Though I don't believe every streamer should pay their mods, but I do believe the 1% of streamers should because it is a lot of traffic to monitor.
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Reason I learned NOT to pay a mod
1) Only some people can afford to hire and pay their mods
2) Some mods suck at their job
3) You might suck at payroll and accidently pay people who don't even show up to work for a year.
4) Mods are easily replaceable and you can always find interns to work for free
5) Once you start paying people it creates a weird dynamic almost like work with you as a boss and being a boss isn't always fun.
6) People sometimes get in disputes with their boss and they might say mean things about you.
Bonus:: Mods who do it for free are devoted fanatics and it will be hard to find new fanatics once actual job applicants apply
Reasons TO pay a mod
1) It makes me feel good giving money
2)They are actually doing work and should probably get some money
3) I make millions a year and the fair market rate is so small i wouldn't even notice except when i want to for reason 1
Note: top 100 streamers should pay something to the mods... even the top 1000 should give a Arby's gift card at Christmas at least
Congrats send a direct message for your prize 🏆🎊🎊🎊🎊
@@digzgwentplayer4159 they were not my reasons.. i was just restating everything ludwig stated as the pros and cons... he actually gave a disgusting amount of excuses NOT to pay mods. He eventually begrudgingly came to the conclusion that streamers who are literal multi millionaires should pay SOMTHING to mods for reasons of "personally feeling good about it"... but this is after worrying about not being able to find fanatics who would do it for free... worrying about the responsibility of being a boss and managing payroll... In the end he stated the only reason he pays mods is that the money is so little to his bottom line the feeling he gets giving the money is worth doing the right thing.... i guess he did the right thing ... but this video is a moral wash for lud
@@-TriP- wait till you hear what an internship is before you judge these people... watch pursuit of happiness to get 10% of the truth of the real world...
If everyone started asking for $ to mod, the outcome probably would be only 1 person gets to mod & is paid to do all the work, or no one at all.
On the first point... So if you have a small company, you shouldn't pay your secretary because it would hurt your bottom line ? Yeah having employees (or assimilated) will always hurt your company, duh. But you don't CHOOSE to go into a business which works on your relationship with your audience and then not the pay the people that manages the main way that same audience interacts with you.
Or let's just have unpaid interns for everything forever.
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I've never understood why people do this job for free, I wouldn't do it even if you paid me for it. I mean I guess if you paid enough then maybe...
You can’t be taken advantage of unless you let someone take you for a ride. Remember this.
That's "water" isn't water, it's piss. 😂😂
No, no one _should_ be paid. If you pay them on your own accord, then fine, whatever. But becoming a mod is not a contract you sign to get employment. If you don’t show up you’re not terminated, you just may be unmodded. Most likely, you became a mod because you hung out around the stream for a bit, were a dope person, and got that privilege. Chances are, you’re going to sign on to watch that CC anyways, so you’re most likely going to be moderating. It’s more of a hobby/choice rather than a contractual agreement with laws, taxes, insurance, skill-building for resumes…etc.
14:55 what kinda argument was lud making, if that's the case the whole job market wouldn't exist for the same reason - he said "mods doing it out of passion", that's like those companies that ask you to know their corporate values and work with passion and pay minimum wage.
Difference is that he is not asking, but people want to do it them self for no pay at all, also the can go and leave when they want.
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Yes & no. they do devote there time to keep the channel legit and clean of the bs. With todays social media society that's alot work.but it should vary from the size of the streamers platform + how good your mods are.
Knowing most of these mods are pieces of shit and do highly subjective shady moderation, I am going with a hard pass
BULLSHIT. I said bring back Gus 2 times within a 10 minute period, i.e. not spamming whatsoever and I got banned. People that are saying crazy shit, racist insults, fat shaming, and generally treating people like shit are banned. I have the same punishment as people that do those things.
@@npcknuckles5887 yes but if you start relying on their services you might aswell give them an incentive to do it, just like the comment said it should vary from the size of the streamer and how good the mods are so if we're talking big streamers then yeah they should definitely pay them
@@npcknuckles5887 yes people love to have power but much like what ludwig said, paying the mods he already had insures that they take it seriously so he doesn't have to replace them every other week so having a stable structure means he doesn't have to worry about any of it but at the end of the day doing work for free is counter intuitive like if you have so much free time to mod for streamers might aswell just work a real job you know?
@@npcknuckles5887 "No officer, you dont understand. This small 3rd world country CHOSE to work my diamond mine for FREE. Because I told them that they would be able to tell people from other villages that they are lesser people. So its fine." Truly, if they chose to do it, then its perfectly fine....So yall ever hear about a little group called heavens gate?
Ive seen mods be loyal and active for more than 2 years, if they are putting in the time then of course.
Streamer: "Dude, I have to fire you because you didn't show up to last stream and don't do enough hours montly"
Mod: "Fire me? Was this is a job, was I supposed to get payed?"
Streamer: "No, wait.. I have to remove your mod privileges because you don't do enough wo.. eh, time. You're not in the stream enough!"
Mod: "Ok, so you don't trust me to be a good mod for the times I do show up?"
Streamer: "Yes, you're great when you show up to wo.. to watch the stream!"
Mod: "So I can have mod status and help you whenver I got time for it?"
Streamer: "Listen, we'll talk later. HEY GUYS, WELCOME BACK TO THE STREAM! Today we gonna expose a horrible company who build their multimillion dollar enterprise around sweat shops and child labor!"
Pretty much
The mods should earn some adsense money for the time they work
Imagine being a multi millionaire and not wanting to pay the people who stop you from being banned
the mod of the jebait mount drop deserves an award of some sort. hmmm the words master come to mind
If you are a mod and work for free you don't deserve to get paid.
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I had no idea, until that video came out, that streamers don't pay their mods. I mean maybe don't pay them a living wage but at least pay them for pizza Fridays or something. Taking people from your fan base to do free work for you sounds like an abuse of power to me.
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The real reason Mods don't get paid is supply and demand. There are way more people willing to be a mod for FREE than there are mod slots available.
If you can do streaming as a full time job, you can give your mods SOMETHING. You don't have to pay them like employees, but come on, even a token amount means something.
I don't think i can even fathom making that kinda money and not wanting to force my mods to accept payment for spending their time to help me be successful
scumbag not paying someone whos doing work adding value for you, even if its a small amount or something to show appreciation, Being a multimillionaire and not paying someone who helps you cause they enjoy it is just greedy. I know they could just get someone else but its the principle is crap
why would a streamers not pay their mods? They do work for you. If you are a good person you'd pay them. Simple as that.
Honestly if I had people helping me on stream I would definitely like to give them at least a little bit, nothing major, but just a bit for helping out.
In my honest opinion it should be paid in the circumstances that the mod actually becomes intrinsic to the stream. So being a good help in a big stream should be paid
if they have a schedule with expectations, it is no longer "helping" it is a "job"
@@LomanLawson of course, I didn't mean it with expectations or having a schedule, I would never expect that. more just if I had some people helping me out at that point in time, I would take notice.
@@Naruir ultimately the only opinion that matters in this is the agreement made between the person doing the work and the person on the other side of the agreement, whether they asked for it or just were the grateful recipients of it. we can all have our preferences on it, but none of that matters really :) mine included.
I think for a big big streamer once they have a mod doing extra shit that sorta puts them into a personal assistant sorta role its more justified to pay them or if they add value to your content like the guy who does mods/plugins or whatever it is for Ludwig but just a basic mod doing normal mod stuff you are basically just doing normal volunteering at that point.
The main difference between a paid work and a volunteer is the amount of time they can dedicate on a consistent basis. Unless you're dealing with a complete idiot time invested should equal results.
the way i see it, somoene getting salary will perform way better than if they were a volunteer
a streamer certainly isnt required to pay anyone, but i think it would really help making a strong moderator base
I think highly motivated volunteers can often outperform paid employees, but there's no consistency guaranteed. If the volunteer loses interest or moves on to something else, they have zero obligation to stay, whereas if you pay someone you can demand consistency in return.
I see it to balance both extrinsic and intrinsic rewards.
13:20 I can host myself on your channel!? That is awesome 😀