The Fall of the Rock & Roll Hall |
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- Опубліковано 11 кві 2022
- The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is a shadow of what it once was and has resorted to inducting other genres of music because true rock artists are now in short supply. This trend to expand inductees outside of Rock is watering down the whole concept and is a one-way ticket to the cemetery. Matt Williamson discusses the Hall's state of affairs through several contemporary writers.
SUPPORT Pop Goes the 60s on PATREON: www.patreon.com/user?u=81879771
The Great Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Swindle by Nick Gillespie:
www.thedailybeast.com/the-gre...
Why the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame should be put out of its misery by Steve Bry
www.theguardian.com/music/201...
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Has a Representation Problem by Delany Davis:
www.afterglowatx.com/blog/202...
"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member".
-Groucho Marx
"Someone should throw a brick through it's fancypants window." - Iggy Pop
"It's just the Hard Rock Cafe without the burgers." - Pete Townshend
Great quotes! Thanks, Chrome.
Iggy pop is my hero...a real Humanbeing with SOUL! Live on Iggy.
Todd Rundgren really hit the nail on the head. It's not just a witty quip, but goes to the heart of the matter. Rock and Roll was a time with a certain sound. The music has fragmented so much over the years that, as you pointed out, there seems to be a lack of groups/artists to induct.
I have never had a too much of an interest in the Hall and would argue that the real tribute to those artists are programs like this that pay a much more meaningful homage by exploring their music in a thoughtful, respectful, and deliberative manner. This exploration is what younger generations will find valuable in discovering the who/what/why of rock music---not some ceremony attended by the rich who feel obligated to laugh at each other's jokes and often crigeworthy speechs.
Thank you for that. I hope this channel leaves behind an honest reporting of an era of music that is worthy of repeated listening and research. The Hall doesn't really do that. Thanks Neal!
@Neal Schier - Well said Neal.
I agree with you 100%.
@@poetsdreamsatc Thank you!
Does the Hall have any sort of by-laws or criteria by which they use to measure what is a R&R hall of famer?.. if not, lots of people dropped the ball, which could have prevented a lot of this wenner-mania.. live & learn.
I believe Mr Rundgren was right. Steve Miller had a few words to say about the RRHOF charging $10k to bring family or guests to the ceremony. It's as if they think being in the HOF somehow enhances your musical career, it doesn't, your talent does. The diversity thing is silly. America used to be the best and the brightest, the cream rises to the top no matter the color of the cow. And that's the way it should be.
Agree 1000%. I NEVER liked Wenner. (But Matt's review led me to order the Hagan book!) I knew the RRHOF selection process was bogus when it took forever for the Moody Blues and ELO to get in. There should not be any disco, country or rap stuff in there -- it's Rock, and rock is largely OVER.
In the United States, it is has never, ever been the case that the cream rose to the top regardless of color. That is ahistorical and frankly bs.
Mark Knoplfer quietly demonstrated how much value he placed on the induction of Dire Straits in the not-too-distant past. I think he is on to something.
This subject makes my blood boil. Whenever I think of Mike Smith, paralyzed from the waste down the last 5 years of his life, having to wait 23 phucking years to see his band, The Dave Clark 5, finally get inducted into R&RHOF. Twenty GD years of getting passed over by bands and artists who were no where near DC 5's caliber. And when the time finally came, when what should've been he and his bandmates just recognition, their moment in the Sun if you will, he dies the week of the ceremony. Never getting to bask in the well earned applause and appreciation from his peers. I hate Jann Wenner and am ashamed to live in the San Francisco Bay Area because of this PIECE OF $HIT!! Thanks for letting me rant Matt, I feel better now. Take care Bud, RNB (I am truly sorry for my salty language)
Salty language is allowed. The people that run this show only care about how these inductions go down in the bubbled they live in. They'll never get it.
Knowing what I know now not going into details that's even worse than you think it is and I'm pissed!
@@thephoenixhasflown Please elaborate phoenix. RNB
@@ricknbacker5626 warning gets dark quickly. The rabbit hole goes very very deep on this one there are many tandem societies working together that basically created each thing that got big and there is a huge number system and number pattern running through each piece of it for this one it's birthday death day age know the world is not what you think it is.
@@ricknbacker5626 give me the details and I can give you an accurate number pattern sequence or number.
As an R&R fan, and a classically trained musician, I am SO GLAD that no one has thought of making an HoF for classical musicians and composers. The very thought is paralyzing.
Mozart has won 37 Classies 🏆
There's still time for that, Anna 😵
Actually, I'm surprised that Mozart or Liszt haven't been inducted into the R&R hall of shame.....but I suppose there's still time for that too when they've run out of proper rock & roll bands 😆
Great stuff as always...as I approach my 66th year I am thrilled to think I may actually see the end of these "narcissist conventions" for every kind of "award" show. They all have always been completely arbitrary and meaningless. We are evolving...we are evolving!
Right you are, William . Awards shows and type of tripe the HOF rolls out these days was described very well by Russell Brand, who following the Oscars described them as a “glitter-covered turd of empty magnificence”.
The R&RHOF is the most un-rock n roll organization. Mr. Wenner has become the very thing he claims to have been rebelling against in the early days. Also, he always favored Lennon over McCartney in that now irrelevant magazine, especially in the 70’s.
His treatment of Paul McCartney was nothing short of despicable. Absolutely shameful, vile and even cruel.
@@michaelferreri1256 That treatment is well deserved; if not as a person, as a musician, as Paul McCartney lacks all the self-respect in the world, when he's selling out arenas and he can't even sing anymore. And he's never suffered that rejection with dignity, because he resents it...
McCartney was totally snubbed. Your argument that his voice is weak and he is still selling out stadiums blows away your crazy argument! He has more energy than most of the crap acts that pollute our culture. Oh and he plays three hour shows!!
@@GStraitKISS1 I'm not even gonna acknowledge your reply, man. You're talking just for the sake of talking. Who cares what you have to say...
There are a ton of 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s bands and artists that deserve to be in the hall. It’s come down to petty politics by the elitiests that don’t permit these artists to be given the recognition. It’s to the point where the own RNRHOF descredits itself by omitting them. Really, what real rock fan still watches the Hall of Fame induction ceremony?
Amen! 👏👏👏🙂
When Donna Summers was inducted , we were done! When N.W.A. was inducted we laughed!! Why the pandering?! Are they that woke or just scared?! Screw them, don't need them. My hubby and I have our own RR of Fame!! Lol!! It's on our back deck with a diverse group of our favorite music!!
@@susanfigueroa872 I hear you. Such people shouldn’t be in charge of something like the RNRHOF. It’s like letting a bunch of 12 year olds choose the radio stations when your driving them to school…lol
I agree with Todd Rundgren. I visited the Hall of Fame back in 2001. I looked at it as more of a museum of the relicts of the rock and roll era and thought little of who was on the listings of members. That's really all it was worth to me. I got to see the reel-to-reel the Basement tapes were recorded on by Dylan and the Band and to me was a highlight. "Crazy" aren't I for thinking this way. Oh well.
I totally agree. I've been to the Rock Hall twice & really enjoyed it both times. But I totally saw it as a museum as well. I also visited the Hard Rock Cafe Vault in Orlando which houses some amazing R&R artifacts. Those are what I enjoy. I couldn't give 2 shits who is "in" and who's not. That makes a farce of what rock music meant to those of us who grew up with it. Screw your tuxedoed induction ceremony. I just want to see Jim Morrison's brown leather pants! (which the Hard Rock Vault had.)
Until the Replacements are in and Joan Jett is out, the Hall is shameful.
Terry: I saw one of the Studer 4-Track recorders that The Beatles used to record Sgt. Pepper's.
That was a highlight for me.
I wouldn't go all the way to Cleveland to look at some head scarf worn once by Keith Richards, but hey - to each his own.
@@mrmusic248 Wow!
When the RRHOF induct Grand Funk Railroad, Bread (yes Bread), America (Absolutely America), Boston, Styx to name a VERY FEW of deserving bands, then maybe they can redeem themselves. Hell will have to freeze over several times over for this to happen. And I just don’t see that ever happening.
All the bands you mentioned should be in the hall. Also Johnny Maestroand Bobby Vee, not untalented non musical rappers.
@@JOHNWLOUCKS I agree with you John! Especially your last line. Well said.
I watched a BBC concert of Bread, and guess what to my surprise? I already loved the band, but they showed they could ROCK!
Many deserving rock groups have never been considered or chosen for induction, including Kansas, Jethro Tull, Supertramp, Thin Lizzy, and Blue Oyster Cult.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a F-ing joke! How could you not induct BÖC, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Supertramp, Thin Lizzy, King Crimson, and so many other fan favorites? 🤔
@@chrispeterson73 Absolutely, Chris!! Many of those bands , and others snubbed by the fascists at the HOF, had a handful or more of great albums!! One you mentioned, King Crimson , had virtuosos. Phenomenal musicians like Greg Lake. He later joined with other phenoms like keyboard genius Keith Emerson and drummer extraordinaire Carl Palmer. Their legacy of never kissing Wenner’s derrière to be included in the rabble is to be applauded.
Nazareth
@@seerstone8982 Hey, why not?! “Hair of the Dog” is an all-time classic!!
CANNED HEAT, AND MOTORHEAD!
Wait a minute, Nat King Cole is in the Rock and Roll HOF?? As someone who grew up in the 60's I love rock and roll. I also love Nat King Cole. I also know that Cole hated rock. The man recorded a song titled "Mr. Cole Won't Rock and Roll", for Christ's sake! I live 30 miles from the R&R HOF. I ain't interested.
nat king cole??? i am very old and remember him from childhood/ ballads, acting in the samuel fuller pic. rock/?? but whatever. no rush. play working man live in cleveland.blah blah blah. still no judas priest. yeah. if i were mccartney would not complain because who cares. i get the impression rush came because the fans cared because they nhad said earlier they didn't care. with dolly parton they should close down let wenner find some other ego trip.
I don't recall his induction, either.
Warren Zevon, Jethro Tull, Free, Bad Co, Harry Nilsson, John Mayall, Thin Lizzy, Rory Gallagher, UFO, The Guess Who, Badfinger, The Damned, J. Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult, Delaney & Bonnie, Nick Lowe, Steppenwolf, Savoy Brown, Procol Harum, Mott the Hoople, Los Lobos, The Blasters, Canned Heat, Bad Co.,etc... Not in the Hall I believe. The haven't have run out of Rock acts. The RNRHOF has become like the Grammys.
I've always thought the whole idea of a "Hall of Fame" to be antithetical to what Rock N Roll is all about. May I refer everyone to the Stones "Respectable?"
I think Gillespie was spot on, and really, so was Rungren.
This was a nice addition to your channel.
Thanks, Dr. Joey!
Where are the freaks, the crazy and dangerous groups that continued to make rock music edgy? Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band, Pere Ubu, Sonic Youth, Hawkwind, the Pink Fairies, the MC5, Motorhead, the Television Personalities, Plasticland, could go on and on here but you get the point. The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is a pointless waste of time but with some of these artists it could at least be fun. Did I mention Half-Japanese? The Fall?
The Modern Lovers
They're wanting to get more female artists in now but I seriously doubt they'd have the guts to induct Wendy O Williams/ The Plasmatics.
And prog rock too! Sure Yes and Rush are both in there, but how about King Crimson, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Supertramp, etc.?🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Hawkwind. Wow. You should go on Jeopardy! if you can come up with stuff like that;-)
Shonen Knife
Great video Matt! Love your candid discussion on the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame and how it’s faltered over the years. I had always felt it was just a glorified Hard Rock Cafe. I love the Doggett quote from You Never Give Me Your Money. Thanks for sharing this.
Hard Rock Cafe - that's a good one; fits perfectly.
I would have thought that anyone aware of what a piece of work Wenner is would regard not being inducted as an honour. And I can imagine early Rolling Stone writers like Ralph Gleason, Hunter S Thompson and Greil Marcus would have been scornful of the very idea, and the Lennon/McCartney fiasco taints the whole thing, imho.
Good points setting the record straight. The people protesting and bringing up race are ignorant to the facts, especially demographic facts!.
Sadly, I think the R&R HOF is perhaps just chasing ratings for their HBO Induction specials with strange, but seemingly diverse inductees. All at the expense of more deserving artists who represent the Rock and Roll genre.
Edward Van Halen :
“Hey Jann , Howz bout you come over to my house and I give you a personalized guitar lesson” ?
Jann Wenner :
“I’m sorry Eddie but I’m picking out clothes in the hopes of being invited to Madonna’s Halloween party”
Well stated, Mark!
I heard Micky Dolenz say at a convention that the Monkees were never inducted because the industry was still angry that they were forced to play Monkees records in the 60s. Usually, they themselve decided who would have hits, but the Monkees was this multimedia onslaught and radio stations had no choice but to dance to their (Columbia/Screen Gems) tune.
the funny thing is Monkeys are great compared to the shit today,,,,,
I doubt that story, I grew up with The Monkees and the music was played because it was GOOD and it was VERY popular, no one was "forced" to play the songs, the songs were played because there was demand for it.....just look at the number of records they sold.
@@harrysmusicroom It's also true there was resentment about them being a "manufactured" band, but that didn't matter once they took control. Despite that, the resentment still held. away from the execs who made them in the first place.
@@harrysmusicroom The public played the music because they liked it. The critics and much of the music industry didn't. Partly it was snobbery (especially from critics), partly business politicking and jealousy.
If Joan Jett is in, Monkees should be in.
Thank you, Matt. As a life-long museum professional who has visited the Hall of Fame several times, I agree with the views expressed in this video. Admittedly, I've enjoyed a lot of the memorabilia and instruments on display but I can’t stand the nomination and induction process. And, as pointed out in the video, the inclusion of other genres is simply a desperate attempt by the Hall to remain relevant.
Congrats for saying what so many of us have been thinking and complaining about for decades. It's yet another good idea that overstayed its welcome. I stopped paying attention to the hall when they inducted Madonna. It has long since gone the way of all the "let's put on an award ceremony" clown shows like the Grammys, Oscars, etc. They serve no purpose and only display emperors who don't know they're naked. Keep up the great work, bro.
"Emperors who don't know they're naked." Well said.
The RRHOF ceremony has become a MTV VMA show.
Tommy James & The Shondells not being inducted is just criminal...I mean start with 'Hanky Panky'...garage band rock that is right up there with 'Louie Louie'...then Mirage, I Think Were Alone Now, Mony Mony, Crimson & Clover, Crystal Blue Persuasion, Sweet Cherry Wine, and several others. These tunes are the very essence of AM Radio rock .staples...
A great point - Tommy James is certainly worthy.
Is having hits the main criteria for the R&R HOF? If so, then lets induct the Monkees, Paul Revere & the Raiders, Gary Lewis & the Playboys, Johnny Rivers, The Grass Roots, Three Dog Night, The Guess Who, Huey Lewis & News, America, Kansas, Foreigner, B-52s, Barbra Streisand, and Cher. And many others!
Excellent episode! I found it so interesting to learn about the thing between Paul and Wenner! (I like to call him "Yon Weiner"!! He he he!)
'Irrelevant' is what this HOF has become, you are right. I visited once, about 2-3 years after it opened, and even then I wasn't impressed, although I really, really wanted to be. It has become a sham since then. Todd Rundgren was spot on. Your comment of it's time frame of 'validity' as being about 10 years is pretty close too, in my opinion. Thanks for the post, and I'll add that the Musician's HOF and Museum is far more relevant, and has retained it's values since it opened, understanding that its concept is somewhat different (i.e. not all 'headliners').
Thanks, Roger!
Great quote from Todd Rundgren. And so right on.
matt, this was the best episode on your channel yet.
[ha, and i'm not a huge Kiss fan, but agree 100-percent with your comment]
I've always hated Kiss, but they should have probably been a first ballot inductee. Thanks Queen!
@@popgoesthe60s52 Kiss weren't the Dolls! as one writer said "The Dolls opened and held doors then watched every other group run through them!
I can’t explain how therapeutic it is to hear someone else share my frustration with the rock and roll hall of fame and I didn’t even know about the snubbing incidents! The Paul snub particularly pissed me off considering what happened to poor Linda in the next few years and also just who wouldn’t be clamoring to get PAUL MCCARTNEY in the moment he’s eligible?! Anyone other than rockers shouldn’t be inducted period but especially not before all the big rockers have been inducted.
Hi, Juno - thank you for the comment!
Where are Paul Revere & The Raiders? Greg Kihn?
I whole heartedly agree with Todd Rundgren. The minute they started inducting anyone outside of the rock & roll geandra (i.e. Whitney Houston, rappers, etc.) they lost any respect I might have had. There is a hall of fame for just about any style of music. Why would you want to to mix all of these together? Why would you call it the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?? There are so many more ROCK bands and artists out there that are more deserving of being inducted, but the music industry does what it's done all along, uses it as a tool to promote artists and music that have no place in the RRHOF and to make more money for themselves. In the beginning when it was started I thought it was really cool and wanted to go visit it, now I'd just like to see it burnt to the ground!
Truly, Rock (& Roll Hall of Fame) IS DEAD.😥
Jethro Tull!
Great episode just think of all the great bands not in the hall. Like Bad Company, Badfinger, Pat Benatar, REO Speedwagon, Boston, Peter Frampton , Styx, Jethro Tull, Foreigner, ELP, BTO, Grand Funk Railroad, Kansas, Procol Harum, Judas Priest, Bryan Adams, Boston, Little Feat and Joe Cocker. Looks like they hate prog rock, heavy metal and so called corporate rock.
There are so many you could have the non-Hall of Famers!
Add Suzi Quatro also to the snubbed list
Well done. I cannot decide who/what I despise the more - the R&R Hall o' Fame or Jann Wenner. Had no idea there was this much linkage between the two excrement piles. You are a good man. Mr Williamson. I enjoy your audio essays and now I will appreciate them all the more.
Hold on just a damn minute! There's a Polka Hall of Fame? Don't tease me now! All I've got to say is... ROAD TRIP!!!
Amazing video Matt. Really appreciate your honesty and condor on any subject. I totally agree with your take on this one. (it's a total popularity and political contest, and many worthy performers/influencers are left out) It's safe to say now, this channel won't be going into their hall anytime soon. 😃
Any band I cover may now be excluded from the nominations! I badge of honor I would wear gladly.
Cliff Richard and The Shadows aren't in there. That's all you need to know about how stupid the Hall is. Without Cliff and the Shadows, no Beatles? No British Invasion? No anything? Cliff's still out there belting it out and just had his eighth decade in a row of a Top Ten album in the UK. And as for Hank Marvin, he was THE FIRST important electric guitarist in Britain. Influenced EVERYONE!
I don’t even watch the RRHOF when it airs because it IS such a joke. Inducting hip hop artists shows the true colors of this joke hall of fame. We all know it’s the artists that “pay off” the hall get inducted now and not legendary ROCK-N-ROLL bands and singers who rightfully belong there.
Well put Todd Rundgren.
And very true. 🙌
Its become an MTV VMA show.
@@erniericardo8140 Exactly!
I think you should do a video on the "Polka Hall of Fame".
Landslide, rocks are falling, falling down upon our very heads
We tried but you were yawning, look again
Rock is dead
Rock is dead
Rock is dead
Long Live ROCK (be it dead or alive)!!!
No one sounds like The Who! No one!
@@vayabroder729That's for sure! However, that is one of the things that made all the amazing music, especially of the late 60s and into the 70s, so special; All the fantastic artists were so unique, and usually were easily identifiable, because they all "had their own sound", despite whatever their influences were!
It will never happen again in our lifetimes!
When I was in eighth grade I went to the rock hall. It was amazing to walk around the museum and learn about all my favorite players. I’ll never forget it. Truly inspiring! Recently I’ve been seeing the true politics of the rock hall and it’s just sad. It’s no more than a bunch of rich guys handing out awards telling the public this is what you should like and admire. Now even the Artist are caving into the scam. Even Paul is crying when they won’t let him in the club. Like why should Paul even care? True artists are individuals doing it for the art and are there to inspire others. I say blow up the rock hall and tell the kids to judge their hero’s for themselves regardless of what genre they identify as. Stop being so fixated trying to fit in. All the artists in the rock hall only got to where they are because they tried something new are were brave enough to challenge the status quo.
Thanks for the great video love your channel Matt!
Thank you, Matt - plenty more to come!
There are some glaring omissions from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Canned Heat, Guess Who, and Three Dog Night are just a few off of the top of my head.
Your research and conclusions are excellent and spot on. Quite objective.
Thank you, Gail.
I’d be interested in a mamas and the papas band history, along with Sergio Mendes and the Brazil 66
Just remember to stay away from ham sammichs.
Both are on my very long list. Probably the Mamas and Papas first.
@@johnnystarspangle2876 not a true story. she did NOT choke. don't spread lies
@@lamper2 It's meant to be a bit of humor. Lighten up Francis.
@@johnnystarspangle2876 Her death is nothing to joke about. And please get your grammar in check.
Well said Matt! Thank you for your research and thoughts on this!
Thanks, Jackilyn!
I couldn't agree with you more. I thought they all went to Cleveland. I feel stupid but it makes sense. I love your attitude about their fakeness
These Hall inductees are based on popularity and Top 40 success. True pioneers like Poco should be in there. They changed the course of "rock" and roll.
Poco did some really beautiful stuff.
@@TheRealDrJoey Some members of Poco are already in the Hall from their days with other great bands.
Speaking of band histories...there was this band called the Kinks, pretty good band by all accounts, that many believe never really got the attention they deserved. I'd love to learn more about them. I know they're in the hall of fame, I'm not saying they've been slighted, I just think in this country, they're very under-appreciated.
I will be doing a band history on them in the future, so stay tuned!
@@popgoesthe60s52 How about the Box Tops?
The Kinks were banned from performing in the USA around 1965. They had a habit of fighting each other on stage, but I think there was also a problem with the US Musicians' Union. It meant - so some argue, and I agree - that they were less under the influence of American music and wrote more "English"-sounding songs. They certainly wrote a series of classics in the mid-to-late "sixties - Waterloo Sunset, Autumn Almanac, Days, Sunny Afternoon...the list goes on. And - so the argument goes on - when they were eventually allowed to play in the States their music became more "American" and less interesting. In any case, Ray Davies is a genius!
@@samanello3382 Yes, they are on my very long list!
The Kinks are in my top 3 bands of all time along with The Beatles and The Who... and I'm American.
I had an opportunity to visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame back in 2009 and had a great time! The exhibits are very well-done and it was cool to see many of my heros inducted. However, I do not agree with some of the inductees who are not known to be musicians who play "rock and roll." I agree with what Todd Rundgren said, "If the Hall was going to induct people who played rock and roll music, there wouldn't be anyone else to induct in the future."
Growing up in the late 50s to early 70s..the music was awesome!! But it wasn't all rock and roll...the hall of fame is not about real rock band...too bad..matt and the viewers of this show could really make an accurate and definitive list...imagine all the people living for today...
I have always been a supporters of getting Rhythm and Blues acts from the early days thru Motown's golden era in. The early pioneers were a huge influence and Motown created a hybrid of musical styles that appealed across the board. The one omission in this regard that bothers me greatly is The Marvrlettes. They were first eligible in 1987 and have bern nominated only twice and never got in 2013 and 2015. They gave Motown their first #1 with Please Mr. Postman, which the Beatles covered, they had other successful hits with 2 lead singers, Gladys Horton and Wanda Young, and helped usher in the girl group era of the 1960s. These credentials alone should get them in and they are still waiting. Horton and Young have both passed on so the Hall blew yet another chance to honor a deserving group.
You make a great argument. Their influence was huge for all those 60s groups that followed including the Beatles!
Thats a total travesty!!! -But RRHOF decides to put in NWA -WTF?!?!
The marvs were marvelous!
I really enjoy your channel. I thought this was one of your best yet, probably because I agreed with 99.9% of what you said. When the hall was first opened I had an almost visceral negative reaction for the same reasons as several of the people you quoted. Nat Cole and Dolly, two of my favorites BTW, are iconic musicians, but do not belong in the ROCK AND ROLL HOF! Quoting Nick Gillespie was just icing on the cake. Thanks.
Thanks Joe!
This “Baby Boomer” thought the Hall was a great idea at the time of its inception but I couldn’t agree more with those of today that say it has outgrown its usefulness. It has become a three ring circus of politics, clown acts and so-called “music” that is an embarrassment to the very genre that it’s supposed to honor. I’m just glad I was able to visit it at a time when it truly was a shrine to all the great rock performers of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s……etc.
Thank you, David!
You’re correct because when it comes to iterations, the Red Hot Chili Peppers had every single member of their band inducted including members that were not even on albums. I always thought the minimum criteria should be that you’re on an album.
If I understand the HOF criteria for past band members,...If the band is still active, they have sole discretion on which past members are inducted. I think The Cure did the same thing...they included all past members for HOF.
Fleetwood Mac did a bit of the opposite...they refused to include Bob Welch...mainly due to the fact that he was disputing song writing royalties w the band at that time, and FMac decided not to include him. 🤷♂️
The rock n roll hall of fame reminds me of the SNL skit about who was on SNL as a Host the most.
Nobody ever mentions the actual museum or the museum's archives located just off site when talking about the Rock Hall. It's like the only thing anyone can ever comment on is who is in and who is out of the club. The collections in the museum itself are INCREDIBLE and unduplicated anywhere in the world and the archives for the museum which is part of the Cuyahoga Community College library system has hundreds of thousands of unpublished old photographs and films and memorabilia and so much more available for researchers. Nobody ever mentions that stuff when they give their half-baked criticisms of the Rock Hall. Also many of the induction ceremonies have in fact taken place in Cleveland. I was at the 2015 induction held at Cleveland's Public Hall where Paul McCartney inducted Ringo Starr into the Rock Hall and it was one of the best events I have ever been to in my life. Oh and John Mayer inducted Stevie Ray Vaughn that night and Patti Smith inducted Lou Reed that night and Stevie Wonder inducted Bill Withers that night...and there have been many other induction ceremonies held in Cleveland over the years -- but whateva. Haters gonna hate and leave out crucial information.
I didn't know about the ceremonies in Cleveland, but I still say they ALL should be there. If Furthermore, rock artifacts are a completely different topic. You, Filmcode, left out some crucial information in that argument because many artifacts in those coveted museums are from people not inducted to the Hall. I have more respect for those items than a subjective induction process that is supposed to represent 'fame." Go Guardians!
Thank you Matt Williamson for shinning a light on the plethora of disparities that exist within the realm of "Rock" music. Obviously we first have to explore the perimeters of definition before delving into the self congratulation of the business pariah that have enriched and sustained their ego driven mediocrity on the originators and sustainers (sorry Todd) that are a medium for contemporary expression. I would suggest a contrary relevance to history i.e. why a hall of fame. Maybe because were getting older we think it means something.
I covered the Hall of Fame show for 2004 in New York for the Houston Chronicle when little ol' Houston band ZZ Top was inducted, by Keith Richards. (Got to meet Keith, among others, on the red carpet.) Later Mick Jagger gave a humorous speech while gallingly inducting Wenner, a man for whom I have no respect. Though his written speech was fawning, Jagger concluded by saying of the occasion "I will cherish the memory of it all the way to the airport." That about sums it up for me, too. And that goes for any awards show--Oscars on down. The true honor is the truth of someone's achievements, not whether those achievements got them a shiny award or a place in an in-crowd that snubs deserving people.
Even before your last great quote from Todd Rundgren , I was going to say no one after 1979 . I doubt if John Lennon would have given a shit about being in the rock and roll hall of fame, why would Paul McCartney??? Both great rockers by the way !
That was a great video Matt! I can't stand the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. It's just one big POS!
Like Russell Brand so brilliantly quoted about award shows, the Hall has become a “ glitter-covered turd of empty magnificence”.
Oh man...Matt you nailed this one! Great perspective and I agree with you wholeheartedly!! Nice job! Cheers Matt Street
Mr. Street! Good to see you. Thanks for the comment. Us old timers have to keep the torch burning and get our music in the ears of young people. Take care.
@@popgoesthe60s52 absolutely Matt! Hey I am really pumped about your 2 part Byrds series!! One of my fave bands! As soon as I can, I'm there! Take care, Matt
Skip Spence's fringe jacket, John Lennon's Black 12 string Rickenbacker, I can't remember what else. Oh,the local Cleveland Rock exhibit had it's own floor,pretty cool for that but largely inconsequential as a whole. I don't care who gets in or not. That's some superfluous shit in the face of actual music making.
Good points all. Great job on your end.
I think the "hall" shouldn't have snuck in all those influence acts in the 1980s and 1990s. This just served to confuse people. and alienate others. I'm a musician and a huge follower of music trends. I was born in 1964. BUT I wouldn't know exactly "who" artists like Bob Willis, Charlie Christian, Ma Rainey, Rosetta Tharpe and Jimmy Yancey were, unless I #1. studied and read, a lot (liner notes mostly) as a music fan, or, #2. felt like a dumbass because, well...the sainted RRHOF is paying tribute to them, and I'd better get up to speed.
But you know, even though I don't downplay those types of discoveries, it sort of takes away a lot of what makes being a music fan an "organic" experience. I didn't have a rock and roll hall of fame growing up. I read biographies of musical acts that I loved explaining who they themselves listened to along their way. I also had parents that shared their pop music loves with me, and I had my brother, his friends and my own friends that would tip me off to cool music.
In truth, nobody "needs" a rock and roll hall of fame. Especially not one dictated by corporate big wigs and people who worry about cultural "representation." If that ever becomes a commonplace idea, how long will it take before people start demanding that some hall of fame'rs be removed???
You are right about some may wanting to remove some. Case in point, the 50th anniv of Lennon's Sometime in NY City is coming out soon. Do they include the n-word song? Do they omit it? Does Lennon get canceled if its released. What a mess.
@@popgoesthe60s52 ...Whoa!...Can't "Imagine" them Sanitizing John Lennon!!!...
@@popgoesthe60s52 Frankly if I were in charge of the Lennon legacy I would be hoping that the whole thing remained largely forgotten, regardless of unfashionable language. Even most of the biggest fans of Lennon must rarely play it and it certainly isn't going to attract any new fans.
ok man, but when i go back to the hall of fame museum in Cleveland, and I'm from Cleveland, I got to see LEDBELLY'S Stella 12-String and One of Lowell George's Strats, and one of Duanne Allman's early discarded Gibson SG's. Plus a chunk of Otis Redding's shredded airplane, so...I think they're doing a great service to the preservation of Rock History. Who they induct will only get more and more complicated.
Rock n' Roll in a museum? Okay.
Great interview with a great Beatleologist.
Matt- your content is so informative and thought provoking. Pure Gold!
Much thanks Tuna - More to come!
Exellent view as always!
Thanks Mika!
I always check out your albums on your shelf/rack in the background and am impressed by your collection. I have many of the albums you have and spotted, for example, Grace Slick and the Great Society album circa 1965-66 and Donovan - A Gift From a Flower to a Garden. Both great contributions to the psyche scene of the 60s. Good input over the Rock hall as well. Don't know why any other musical genre is even considered in the first place. If it's not truly rock and roll, it doesn't belong there, plain and simple. Give the separate genres their own halls...and screw the politics therewith as well.
Thanks Sean, I appreciate the comment.
I also often notice Bebe le Strange by Heart on the rack. I always kind of liked that cover. I wonder how the album is?
Really well said
Bravo, Matt!
Rock N Roll Pioneer, The Big Bopper still isn't even in the RRHOF, so it's always been a fat joke to me.
Todd also said that when Billy Idol gets in, artist's will start mailing their awards back.
A lot of great British rock bands have been ignored simply because they never made it in the states. Which is why I found it humorous that one of my faves Roy Wood managed to sneak in because he helped Jeff Lynne form ELO, even though he left during the recording of the second ELO album. Slade wrote songs that people who are now in the r&rhof covered.
Also I think The Monkees should have been acknowledged.
I've long thought the RnRHoF is a joke. It took years for a group like The Zombies to finally get in, and no matter what you think of Billy Preston, he's a guy who could have gotten in in any of five categories (Performer, Producer, Songwriter, Sideman, Early Influence), and he just got in last year. War, one of the most influential and important acts of the '70s, still isn't in.
Cat freaking Stevens is in this HoF!! On the basis of what? "Moonshadow"? If he's there, what case do you make against Karen Carpenter, John Denver and Gordon Lightfoot? Guns and Roses are a Hall of Fame act, but Living Colour isn't? If the great Wilson Pickett is there, how can there be a question about the great Johnnie Taylor?
I can understand the thought of other genres of music being considered offshoots of rock, which was an offshoot of blues (and country) and therefore legitimate to consider, so I'm not necessarily bothered if a Hall that honors deservedly Hank Williams honors The Allman Brothers, Lynard Skynyrd, or even Dolly Parton, should she choose to accept it (and much respect and kudos to her for her stand), but how we get the great Miles Davis or Jay Z in there is just rank bullshit and the cynical work of corporate backslapping. If they were honest (really being honest means there would be no such thing as a RnRHoF in the first place), they'd just admit it's a "Hall of Fame of Pop Music", but I think that's already taken. One of the cruelest fates was Joe Strummer not being able to stand up during his induction speech with The Clash to give his opinion. I'd like to think he would have spoken truth to power yet again.
The B52s aren't there. Neither is George Michael. Or Randy Bachman. Or Kool and The Gang.
The place is a frigging joke.
Edited to add: I just found out Willie Nelson isn't in this joint either.
Yeah, a separate Hall could exist of all that are not in! Thanks T R.
Definitely agree. If it's just popular music then why not Manilow and Streisand while they're at it?
Never paid much attention to the Hall of Fame...Very interesting Topic, Matt!...I saw the Hard Rock Cafe in Mexico many years back & THAT was Grand!... Yup...It's "Outlived It's Usefulness"...👍😃🌹!...
Great video!
No Jethro Tull. No Big Star. No MC5. Why even bother?
I visited the Hall In June, 2022. It was a fun experience seeing the gear, posters, clothing, etc. I was very surprised at how many artists were inducted. It felt like anyone that ever had a hit was in, except the Monkees and Paul Revere & the Raiders. There is a room where the inductees are listed by year. The room is of no particular distinction; has no feel for being a special place.
On the same road trip, I visited the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. There is a large hall, like a church, where each inductee has a plaque which makes the case for why that person deserves it. The Rock & Roll HOF makes no attempt to explain the contribution of each inductee. For example, I wonder how Frankie Lyman & the Teenagers, Johnny Cash, LaVern Baker, Dolly Parton, Gladys Knight, and Bobby Darin influenced rock-and-roll. I have nothing against any of these artists, but why are they in a rock-and-roll hall of fame?
The Baseball HOF, founded in 1936, had 340 inductees. The Rock & Roll HOF, founded FIFTY YEARS later in 1986, has 351 inductees. Why is the Rock & Roll HOF in such a hurry?
I think the comparison between the RRHofFame and Baseball's is a good one. There is really no marketing component to inducting an old player as opposed to a recording artist, whose back catalog can always be capitalized upon.
Thanks a bunch Matt. Visiting the Hall of Fame 5 years ago and I felt it was not a celebration of a living thing. I was mortified to see parts of Otis Redding's plane on display for instance. The psychedelic concert posters section was enjoyable and I was stoked to see the drum head from the Seeds. Other than that, forget the institution and just listen to the albums and enjoy 4 to the floor. Cheers.
I didn't know about Otis Redding's plane. That's right up there with the death car of James Dean!
@@popgoesthe60s52 I made same connection in my mind.
Seriously surprised Mike Love didn't get at least a tiny mention.
Matt thanks for a video that I always hoped you make! The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is trying to be “cool” with contemporary artists no matter if they fit in or not. There are plenty of deserving artists that have been snubbed (Johnny Rivers, The Monkees, Grand Funk) and probably won’t be inducted in our lifetime. The Hall is generally a good concept, but it derailed years ago when it made some truly poor choices. From this point on, the Hall is going to do whatever it wants to do, rock fans be damned. You have to ask yourself why they didn’t build a performing center at the Hall itself. Cleveland is a deserving city that gets snubbed every year…do you see a trend here?
Thanks Scott! Good points.
I too agree with you Mike (and Todd R.)!
I visited the "Hall of Fame" in 2000 and it was disappointing. Tacky, old. Perhaps a "Music Hall of Fame" umbrella and all these orgs merge?
The Beatles also wouldn't play to a segregated audience. That woman has rocks in her head, not rock. She probably doesn't even know who those first black artists are.
Woke journalism written to impress their colleagues that live in the same bubble. Thanks Barb!
3:31-- Thank You!
I used to say to my friends, I think Bill Russell is a legend, but he shouldn't be in the BASEBALL Hall of Fame...
I was at a conference a few years ago and you could see the Hall from our hotel room. I had no desire to go. I disagree with several of your points in the video, but agree with your overall point. Part of the issue is the control the industry took of the genre in the 1970s - taking control away from artists and allowing the genre to be defined and regulated solely by the industry (epitomized in the film "One Trick Pony"). This is why by the mid-80s, yes, Cyndi Lauper was (and Jay-Z today "is") a "Rock Star," if only by industry standards. Additionally, the industry conflated "Rock" with "Pop" sometime in the late-70s/early-80s to further the confusion. And Rundgren is only half right. If no one was still making Rock & Roll, he'd be right - but that would mean the genre was dead. There are still bands out there, pounding away at it, with real guitars, drums, a bass, maybe a keyboard here or there, making it happen. I'm not talking about metal, blues, country, pop... no, man, there's still plenty of us out there doing the holy work of true and pure Rock & Roll. I'm not saying I deserve a slot there, nor do I want one, because I view it as the young-generation-gets-old-and-co-opted-into-the-establishment-for-self-preservation drag that happened to so many of the cool people I watched growing up. Anyway, carry on, Matt!
I appreciate the comment, MARVK!
Reminded me of sometime in the mid 70's, I was perusing the Sunday paper and saw the ad for the latest Halloween costumes...and there it was "Rockstar"
It had become a generic term 🤮
One Trick Pony - Good Movie, Great Album 👍
The Sex Pistol had the right idea with not showing up.
Great job! thanks Matt for expressing so thoroughly your opinions (and mine) and bringing to light facts I wasn’t aware of about the R&RHOF, such as the funding and influence Jann Wenner has on it. In the service during Vietnam Rolling Stone was the only periodical available covering R&R, but I stopped reading it in the early 70’s when it lost its credibility like the R&RHOF has when it decided to induct none R&R performers. I did visit it a few years ago and was very disappointed, headquarters for Hard Rock Café might be more accurate.
Thanks for challenging the use of the “Race Card” when the facts don’t support it with the number of blacks inducted during the first ballot and also who was included in the “Early Influencers” and “Non- Performers” group, nice response. Hope one day with low ratings the networks will finally stop broadcasting meaningless award shows - for millionaires to celebrate their own success - nice line. Cheers!
Thanks for the comment Trek!
We must remember the hall is a tourist destination, more members equates to more visitors.
Whitney Houston and LL Cool J are in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. While Judas Priest and Iron Maiden still haven't been inducted! Travesty!!
Thanks Todd.
Peter Frampton, Johnny Winter, Ozzy Osbourne, Boz Scaggs, and Phil Collins are still being ignored among others with expansive careers.
Great comments Matt. Personally I don't give a fig about the hall of fame.
What is of much more interest to me is the revolving display of albums you have behind you ! : )
Each session I try to make them out and compare how many I am familiar with and how many are in my own collection, it's a nice little game, today I also have the Sergio Mendes Brasil 66 and the Donovan A Gift From a Flower to a Garden. p.s. I'm still waiting for After Bathing at Baxters to make some kind of appearance : )
Hey Tony - Thanks for the comments on my collection in the background. I am planning a lengthy Jefferson Airplane video series in the future so stay tuned!
@@popgoesthe60s52 No problem Matt, as far as music is concerned your channel is one of the most enlightening out there .
Just out of interest Matt, how many albums do you have in your collection ? AND if you could only have ten , what would they be ?
@@BrixtonTone I haven't counted in years or since I last moved which was about 8 years ago. I have about 3,000 spanning from the 50s through 80s. I have several 78s from the 30s-50s too. As for only ten, I'd have to think about that!
I'm waiting for Cliff RIchard and the Shadows to be inducted. Cliff has had more hits around the world than anyone this side of Elvis and many of his early rockers are classics of the period. As for the Shadows, with Cliff, they're great. Without him, they're the most successful rock instrumental band of all time. There were certainly any number of guitar pioneers, but the Shadow's lead guitarist, Hank B Marvin was the first to be actually recognizable as such. His playing influenced most of the British rock guitar gods of the 60's. Much as I love the Ventures, at the height of their fame, they could walk down any main street USA and not be recognized. But Hank Marvin and his iconic specs were known throughout the length and breadth of the UK and beyond. After all, it is called the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame not the American Rock and Roll Hall of Fame plus those foreign acts that Jan Wenner likes.
no doubt they deserve enshrinement. however, im of the opinion that they are long off the radar of wenner & co..
Sometimes I find it hard to believe that something called "The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" even exists. Rock and Roll is just not about that.
I did a bit of research on this and by god, all inductees have the same shoe size!!
Agree with you 100% ~ My letter to the Editor as was printed in Rolling Stone Magazine " Just a bunch of record executives telling each other how great they are " ~ You went for Kiss but I can think of hundreds of others that are more qualified than them ~ Every year the list come out I'am sicken by what I see ~ BTW have you picked up a copy of Rolling Stone Magazine lately ~ I signed up to be a lifetime subscriber back in the 90s ~ There are so few article I want to read that each issue sits in my bath room just collecting dust ~ I keep on forgetting which day is recycling day in my neighborhood ~
I had a subscription in the late 80s but I lost interest in the 90s.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I was offered a $50 lifetime subscription back in the 90s and they are still mailing them to me ~ Go figure ~ I was also invited to some close door’s events with there star photographers that was really great ~ Now they have used up their welcome ~
I'm still thunderstruck that the Shangri-Las aren't in there.
You forgot Yes and J Geils Band being snubbed by the R&RHoF.
Yes had to be nominated 3 times before being inducted. And like Kiss, there are several ex-members not included in the induction, such as original guitarist Pete Banks and one-time keyboardist Patrick Moraz. Steve Howe thanked current members Jon Davison and Geoff Downes, what a classy guy! He didn't even greet Jon Anderson who was on the stage with him.
J Geils Band were nominated 5 or 6 times. One of the years, founding member J Geils passed away. You'd think the R&RHoF would've shown the band some respect and inducted them that year, right? Wrong! They haven't been nominated since. I guess they hoped we'd forget.
There are so many quality artists that are deserving but we have a sham that denigrates these past artists. Thanks for the comment, William!
There has been a history of the RRHOF Not inducting all members of a band such is the case of Fleetwood Mac in Not recognizing Jeremy Spencer and Bob Welch, How the other members of Fleetwood Mac who got to be inducted allowed this to happen (in my opinion) is WRONG!!! as a member like Mick Fleetwood, I would have protested against this and Said to the RRHOF- Thanks,but No Thanks.
The J. Geils Band, sadly, is among some of the many artists who have been too overlooked in general - rock history hasn’t been kind to them.
March of Dimes syndrome. Thanks for the video.