Such jerk thing for cloud to say in this scene for that he deserves the girls mad at him. However, later on...Memory be like: "hate to break it to you Cloud, here is your real memory, Enjoy!"
@@rosieposie1586 Sigh, I dont know Japanese, but my guess is that even in Japanese, loser and that guy are two different words that cannot be mixed up. So unless translator's ability is worse than google translate, how can error like this being made? I can believe what you said is true, then I will have to also guess translator did this on purpose/or being directed to not by error. After all, the animation is the same, after what Cloud said, the girls appear to be mad at him. In that context, loser actually fits the animation reaction. I am guessing the Japanese "that guy" is not a neutral meaning "that guy" either.
@@MaxMaster-jl3ik True he did recall Zack later in the game, and wondered why he forgot. But putting together Zack and Aerith...is a different story. Well, like I said, Cloud will have fun on lots of this in the 3rd regame, and worse, because the plot is changed from OG, he is now having one more important thing he is forgetting and avoiding...
I remember zack crying at the church cause he can't handle such reality anymore but then aerith comfort her hugging him with warmth as if she saved him again from death and depression.... Aerith is truly a heroine of the franchise....
When you think of it, many story protagonist fight for freedom, pay dearly on their life Like Hongo in your profile, who is like Zack but is insecured lost his parther Ruriko, luckily both of them got Ichimonji and Cloud as their successors Henshin, to fight for humanity happiness
To be fair cloud was the biggest loser. Zac only died because he had to protect weak cloud. It Zac would have just left cloud to die he could have lived though depending on which time line he gets to live.
I saw a fan video with a lot of stuff from Advent Children and Crisis Core with "Anthem of the Angels" which was mostly a Zack Fair video, and I can't even watch it anymore after playing Crisis Core. That was kind of like watching the prequels for Star Wars. We know how it ends, but was still curious about what took place to set the stage.
In Nibelheim it was Cloud who defeated Sephiroth (who was WAY stronger than anyone else in the scene) to save Zack and everyone. Therefore Cloud and Zack saved each other.
@@liyh9717 yes. Except Sephiroth was distracted and Cloud took a silent shot. Stabbed him in the back which weakened Seph. Cloud's victory was still earned, but it was Zack who broke them out of the lab 4 years later. Cloud was mako sick and couldn't move on his own.
To be fair, it is not the real Cloud speaking, but the fake persona he created: Cloud's backstory + Zack's past and experiences as a SOLDIER + the personality Cloud thinks a 1rst Class SOLDIER would have (something like his former idole Sephiroth: cold, arrogant and callous). No doubt once Cloud becomes himself again, he will think of Zack as anything but a loser.
Mako poisoning... In 1997 when I originally played the game, I knew something serious was going to be amiss when he started having cut-in memories of things. My room mate said "I think Cloud is lying. He's not a SOLDIER, and this is stolen valor, which was almost right, he blended Zack and himself together to create a single personality and started living as if he was Zack. Cloud is, as far as Zack was concerned, his living legacy. He knew when Zack died on the fields above Midgar what happened, but was still suffering from Mako poisoning. When Tifa found him in Midgar, he was barely conscious. It really came to a head when Cloud was telling the story of Nibelheim in Kalm. Tifa gave some hints that something was wrong with his story telling. As we're going to see early in the next game, Zack is going to be revealed to Cloud and he's going to disbelieve it. Tifa KNEW it wasn't Cloud there. I'm interested in seeing who that interaction occurs and what changes are going to be made to it.
@@mr.e1026 this is a joke lol I played CC, but I’m not going to read the rest of ur comment since I haven’t played the og and dont want any spoliers :)
(spoilers for OG and Rebirth) I think the most important thing to note is that in the original scene, Tifa, Aerith and Cloud were all available to talk to the parents. Both girls storm out, upset and unable to truly explain the whole story because of their conflicted emotions. They end up talking to Cloud about it, somewhat, but it still alludes to the mysterious Zack who is an unexplained presence at the time of the game. It plays into the idea that all three of them were "unreliable narrators," connected to cloudy memories and unsure feelings about the happenings of the world around them. That's why I can admire the remake series in a different light. It's not a retelling of the same story, but rather another version all together. In this one, the events change, effectively testing the audience's memories as well. Do you remember this from the OG that has changed from that? Is this new, is this old? Is this a supplement to the old? Is this an alternate universe? All of those feelings in the original game (the ambiguity, the "cloudiness") are actually manifested in this new game play as another look into FF7. In this version, Aerith doesn't actively look upset nor abruptly leave because she cannot handle the conversation. She leaves politely, but then stews outside quietly, thinking about the past and relating it to the present. She has something more vague in mind, trying to keep herself in check while berating herself for being "mean" because she couldn't tell Zack's parents the truth. In this version, you as Cloud are not given a choice in dialogue, so his automatic response is to ask Aerith if she still likes Zack. This is commented as "wow, you really went for it," which I love as a response LOL. To which we're given a new line to chew on that wasn't in the OG "maybe. he's never given me a reason not to." In this version, Tifa is not there to be upset about Zack either, which is because she was already upfront about Cloud not really being there for her 5 years ago, and (vice versa) him vaguely (weakly) convinced that she must have died 5 years ago. I think the changes are fun. Because you know that this game is intentionally writing things to scramble your memories. You're /supposed/ to go "oh that's changed. that's different. that's not how i remembered it." It's not the original universe, but a alternate universe-network where everyone is trying so hard to hold onto this new control over their fate. They're shaky, they're unreliable at points, but that's what makes it fun.
So do you interpret this as the same pushing Cloud and Aerith romance or more of pushing the idea that Cloud likes Aerith because of the influence from Zack? I'm trying to think about the relationships in the game and how they've changed from the OG game. I always interpreted the relationships in FF7 as being Cloud loved both Aerith and Tifa but that in the end of Advent Children Cloud ends up with Tifa and Aerith ends up with Zack in the life stream. I'm wondering if the game is pushing more Aerith and Cloud, especially due to Zack's conversation with Marlene, I'm not sure how to interpret everything.
@@luismijares1461 I interpret this as Cloud loving both Tifa and Aerith, but there's more hints at Zack from the get go. Meaning while Cloud may develop feelings for Aerith, there's a cut scene a little later in the game where Cloud specifically remembers Zack telling him about Aerith and how wonderful he thought she was. It's essentially done to call to question if his feelings for Aerith were even real, because he starts piecing together that he almost forgot Zack altogether until these memories came back. I think what's also important here is that Zack now has limited autonomy himself, because Aerith personally wanted this for him. I think the most important event in the OG was the fact that Tifa helps Cloud remember who he was to begin with. It builds up to him becoming softer spoken and becoming true to himself. And this is while Aerith's lasting wishes were to save the planet she loved so much, and find some closure to her traumatic life and loves. In this game, how I interpret this is: Aerith IS trying to move on. She does have feelings for Cloud. But she still has feelings for Zack too. (note. this is important because she literally says in this scene that "Zack has never given me a reason not to". it's also important that JUST as aerith dies, and you are not able to follow up on IF aerith would have been happy with Cloud, ZACK dies in the OG in a way where you're not able to follow up if Zack would have been happy with Aerith.) the ambiguity that comes with a fate ending too soon is what's important. in this game, Tifa is the one being accused of potentially not being real/potentially should have died at the reactor. (which hurts her deeply, and it's almost like an inverted PROJECTION that Cloud is doing, because the one who is "less real" is Cloud.) it's a new perspective on the old story, where Tifa experiences something that mirrors her feelings towards Cloud, except towards herself. The most important thing here is that this is just Disc 2, which is more Aerith oriented until her death, but Tifa got to swim in the lifestream to see parts of her life again. I don't think this game leans more into one girl over the other. If anything, it's more like the characters are experiencing this tweaked world and trying to work around it. Aerith is still dead, Zack is still dead, Biggs is still dead. But they have access to the lifestream in a way that messes with reality, and as such, becomes an alternate reality. Their autonomy is Aerith's biggest invisible fight. She's actively struggling against OG Sephiroth who is trying to find a reality where he can finally achieve his goal of destroying the universe. And she knows she needs to alter as many fates as she can to do so. I think the most important part is waiting until Disc 3. Tifa's full story isn't complete until she helps Cloud finally piece together who he is. And it isn't complete until Cloud accepts himself in full. That he's been acting all along, and that he's been living as someone else. Tifa's story is important here because she's been trying to lock part of her own memories away, trying to keep Cloud from falling apart. And a lot of her own people-pleasing eventually makes her realize she can't refrain from telling everyone the truth anymore. Her main flaw is she is JUST as confused about the series of events as Cloud is, but she has real memories while he has faked ones. And because of that, much of who she really is is locked behind her gentle personality, and rocky fighting skills. The reveal that she went from popular town girl to lonely city girl with no home and debts to pay after her own stomach was sliced is all in disc 3 anyway. Its shown in Disc 2 this time around, but I suspect that if Disc 3 doesn't have the reformation of Cloud's personality + tifa's real story, THEN that's when you can confirm that the devs leaned more AxC. If it plays out like Disc 3, then you can essentially say it'll end with TxC and AxZ in the lifestream.) You have to also note that Marlene's conversation is interpretted as such. "Aerith likes Cloud" "but that's because you weren't there." Both are true statements. in the same way Aerith's new lines "there's a difference between like and liking" and "Zack never gave me a reason not to." Both are true. The reality is, Zack is only as alive as Aerith is. And suddenly, he's THERE for her. (if you look at the cutscene where zack houses both cloud and aerith's bodies, he gave up his blanket so Aerith could have two. one as a blanket and one as a pillow.) So you can't argue that he's "not there" because he's actively trying to live life to his fullest. In many ways, Marlene statement is a Schrödinger's cat. She likes Cloud, because Zack is dead. If Zack is not dead, because SHE willed it, what are the feelings then? I think Zack acknowledging that he kind of hates Cloud a little is also interesting btw. He's conscious enough in his alternative realities, ALIVE enough to feel this way. It doesn't confirm AxC endship, nor does it confirm AxZ endship. It just confirms that he's alive, and because he's alive he has the right to feel this way. (And he's only alive because Aerith did something for this to happen.) Like I don't think singleshippers can lean one way or another midgame because I feel like the whole point is that Cloud has feelings for both. The point of Disc 2 OG is that you'll never know what the fate of Aerith would be because she will never laugh or cry again. The point of Disk 2 remake is that you know that she is still fighting to have a fate, and to give others (Zack, Biggs) a fate too.
@@RandomBore4Ever I really like your interpretation ! I’m still new to the remake of this game and i interested in new ways they portrayed each character in each scene, to confirm which ship is canon in this remake is too blunt. they are delicate and I love that
Eh not really. Zack being a ladies man is very much part of his character. We see that multiple times in CC. Kunsel teases Zack for texting with girls, we see him hitting on a desk woman at Shinra before Tseng pulls him out of it, we see Zack asking Cissnei out on a date before she declines and when he first met Aerith his first impulse to "reward her" for helping him is to ask her on a date. He was very much a womanizer. A lot of guys at his age were immature like that. He grew out if it when he officially started dating Aerith but it was definitely a part of him.
@@Grace-cs5skI mean the guy was a soldier and literally got smoked by his own employer which is why he stopped writing and couldn’t show up to meet Aerith sooooo…
@@bartome7o i'm not talking about I meant that he seemed to think that job was way more important than Aerith and I don't care if he says he loved her but usually a "Good boyfriend" calls to check in on the girl who they love and let that person know that they're all right which Zack should've done but didn't do before he died so I don't blame Aerith one bit for want to move on from in clouds word "that loser"
@@Grace-cs5sk i get that but allow me to retort, in CC Zack has a phone conversation with Aerith promising to see her, this is while in Nibelheim just prior to the incident. Then tried racing back to Midgar with an unconscious cloud after waking up from his coma, and ended getting killed because instead of going on the run he wanted to keep his promise to see Aerith.
or aerith said about there being multiple meanings to the word "like" but yes lets counts on a 9 year old to solidify your ship. you can like someone even if you dont love them, aerith doesnt dislike cloud, does she?
@madelinemcmillan4020 A 9 year old that was shown the future by aerith and we can assume her feelings in the moment as well because marlene goes into depth. Like she says She was happy that cloud came for her in the forgotten Capital, and how would she know that?
fun fact in the japanese scene there's no "cause you weren't there" line at all. upon hearing that aerith has feelings for cloud all zack says is "that's so hyu hyu right?" and marlene cutely replies "hyu hyu!" ... in japanese hyu hyu is like an onomatoppeia, an expression that can represent excitement amongst other things (native japanese speakers correct me if i am wrong). the main point is, that line is completely different in english... i wonder if they added that to make the scene more ambiguous? since in japanese the main takeaway from that scene is just that zack asks marlene if aerith likes cloud and marlene says yes. in the scene in nibelheim where cloud remembers zack in english zack refers to aerith as his girlfriend whereas in japanese zack refers to aerith as "the girl i like the most right now"... those are not major differences but i've noticed certain scenes are purposefully made either more vague or less vague in the english localization
I like how the game uses the word “like” when Cloud and Zack both asks about Aerith’s feelings for the other we know the like they’re referring to is romantic but when Aerith gives the answer the type of “like” is not specified and it’s left to interpretation. It really ends with both Cloud and Zack feeling like they’re not being reciprocated and with the player wondering who does she really like.
i think it's because of the affection system. they have to keep it somewhat ambiguous in order to make it make sense in the overall narrative regardless of which girl you choose to have a high affection with. either that or it could also relate to aerith's character and how she tries to hold herself back despite having feelings for cloud bc she knows her fate and doesn't want to hurt cloud (remember her saying "you can't fall in love with me" in remake? despite her saying that the devs confirmed she was also kind of telling that to herself in the remake ultimania)... so yeah it could be one or the other or maybe a mix of both. it's clear that there are romantic implications behind them saying "like" however for example in aerith's final date with cloud if you had chosen aerith's "route" you can interpret her saying she "likes" cloud as something more romantic (cloud's dialogue also changes if he has high enough affinity with aerith as he says he wants to go on another date with her) and if you choose tifa's route (or if you don't care for the romance aspect) her being vague leaves room for interpretation for it being more "platonic" even though in my opinion it's pretty clear that church scene has romantic implications with the way it's framed and with aerith's body language, but at least it's a bit less jarring if you didn't want aerith's romantic route and you choose to interpret it in a more ambiguous way. personally i'm not the biggest fan of such mechanics and it's part of the reason why there's so many crazy ship wars in ff7 but the devs are clearly aware of the ship wars since they feed into it and these types of mechanics makes them profit so...
@user-ky8nd2rz4f lol. FF7 ultimanias say otherwise. And Zack didn't accept anything. He was clearly heartbroken but Cloud is still his friend. Aerith and Zack will get back together in part 3. Mark my words.
4:34 it‘s so strange to me how Aerith says maybe in the english version, but in the german and japanese versions she seems more affirmative of her feelings to Zack
Wow this is so sad i'm like screaming at the screen that cloud you watched him die but even when he mentioned the possibility of him being dead he sill has something in his mind that is trying to remember but the mako poisoning is blocking every memory related to zack and i am wondering if its by clouds choice to protect himself from the grief of losing his best friend who was like his brother or if its for another more sinister reason
They did a script really similar to the parody of Team4Star MachinaAbridged. Probably make sense. Zack is a problem for Cloud mental stability, and so he Is always in defense.
@@MarcosPaulo-yg7mtBecause he's trying to think the guy never exists, due to the trauma he faced in the OG timeline, which is now the reunion, or refreshed timeline. Therefore when he mentions about his death, his mind is unable to cope with the trauma, and shuts that part down. Why does he think Zack never existed? Because he is literally taking his own phrase, being his living legacy. He acts as if he's both Zack and Cloud. Zack's more cheerful and more talkative. Cloud never seems to talk that much which is strange to me, for all that they've been through I thought cloud would've seem to take on or act like Zack in a better sense, with his social attributes. It seems that, his inner self seems to take over this persona that he's created, the Zack persona.
I say this one was less painful than the Machinabridged because not only he hurt Aerith but the parents too. Here, Cloud mostly said what he said as he partly believes Zack ditched her and didn’t want her to waste her time with just a person despite that’s being far from the truth. Problem is, like always, Cloud is bad at social ques
Cloud isn't intentionally being an a-hole to Zack (as his friend), he can't remember the guy yet. You can tell he's just stirred up by jealousy. Why else would he ask Aerith so intently if she likes Zach as it zooms into each of their faces? 4:19 - 4:30 🤭 edit: I agree translators should've used another word to emphasize his jealousy, 'loser' was a bit too harsh. The girls reacted that way because they didn't expect him to get fired up over the situation. He can't remember Zach because of mako poisoning etc. but I doubt he was mean from Jenova's manipulation/mako poisoning, or else why be interrupted by the *headaches* he gets whenever he comes close to the truth about Zach?
aerith doesn’t still have feelings for zack, she can’t hate him bc he was genuinely a nice guy but she also never got closure. it makes sense to still be fond of an ex, but just like anyone else she’s allowed to move on, which she clearly has.
she's looking for her dead boyfriend in some amnesiac dude, I dont think she's over anything lol. keep up the pure copism. zack and her will be together in the lifestream while cloud and tifa will solidify their feelings for each other in part 3 and create a nice family life later.
I hate to disagree, but to me it seems like Aerith still has feelings for him. She knows that something happened to him, she felt it, but she didn't got a clear answer or closure. Cloud asks her is she still likes him and she doesn't say no, she says she has no reasons to dislike him. She misses him and I firmly believe that if they found each other again and he explained why he was absent, she would forgive him and be with him because, after all, he is her first love and Zack loves her too. They share a background, just like Cloud does with Tifa, those are the canon couples.
She literally still does, the mere fact that she has trouble answering a question like that means she does. She never had closure on what actually happened to him. Clearly she’s trying to move on which makes sense given the years but no.. she legitimately still does. If Zack popped up, she’d literally cry and run to him. ESPECIALLY if she learned what actually happened and the sheer irony that she is developing feelings for the very guy Zack saved and dragged across the country as fugitives.. and literally only died protecting him.
5:00 Zack would have taken it in stride. "That's OK, you don't remember me because of Hojo's experiments, I forgive you". That's why many (and me included) prefer Zack to Cloud.
@@mrpringle9479 well he doesn't remember him plus he's a very blunt person. Also given the people that Cloud had worked with in the past, it makes sense he'd think that
@@mastertjt56 not really an excuse considering how cloud, Zack, angeal and sephrioth were all pretty good dudes when they were with shinra. They only went bad when they found out how they were created. I think the girls should have gave him more shit for that especially when they were pissed when he looked in tifas closet
“Forget about that loser.” Bro has dementia from mako poisoning and he even calls his closest SOLDIER buddy a loser who is also the loser who saved him…😢
People saying the motif when Zack’s parents are talking is the Price of Freedom. Its not. Its shared by “Duty and Friendship” and “Sky Blue Eyes” both songs play in relation to cloud and zack’s… well, friendship. And when he talks about his parents during a later part of crisis core.
"Sky Blue Eyes" is played in Zack & Aerith's first date in the park. "Duty and Friendship" is played in Zack & Cloud's first meeting in Modeoheim. But yeah, both are "Price of Freedom" rendition. So the BGM in his house is about the three, Zack & Cloud's friendship, and Zack & Aerith's romantic relationship.
@@ZerithSource i guess i just cant hear it. Both are effectively the same song and in my head match up closer to a slower rendition of “Why” than Price of Freedom. That being said i did forget about the park. Theres also Angeal’s mom loredumping about the buster sword.
That's out of character for Aerith to say Zack would run off with other women but...what if Aerith said this is because to not make Zack's parents know that Zack is already dead. You know, make them feel better
Maybe. In Crisis Core, Aerith definitely knew he died because of the whispers. In Remake(1st part) it was explained that she can sense these deaths, like how she sensed the death of Elmyra's husband. This is my gripe with this scene. I thought they would correct this in Rebirth.
It's so hard how Cloud's memories ar blended in fact that he cannot remember Zack, but it's a nice touch how some keywords take cloud in a headache, his subconscious trying to show the memories that Mako Poisoning and Jenova Cells blocks to him. Of course acting in that way it's trash, but it's understandable that he acts like that because of this issue. It's not the cloud we know from Crisis Core, it's another persona formed by a lot of things, and it's sad. If Cloud didn't get that poisoning he could act more polite and could remember everything. BUT WELL, IT'S PART OF THE PLOT, it's desperate how things we know doesn't shows in the way we want, but if they do that obvious things could not be that fair, and that could ended the plot in a different way, but yeah, we expected a change in the plot in order to see Another kind of story. Maybe one day we'll see a "What if".
I love how jealous Cloud gets. How defensive of her. Barely says anything all game and bam! "Screw that loser, leaving you out in the cold like that" 😂
Cloud is still using Zack’s memories as his past. He remembers Zack’s death wrong because Jenova wants Cloud to still believe he is SOLDIER first class. Zack didn’t die in the river. So yes Cloud does still have alot of Zack’s memories. After this Cloud remembers that Zack was head over heels for Aerith. Which then leads to Cloud wanting to apologize for what he said here but both Tifa and Aerith pretend like it’s not important because they don’t want to break Cloud’s fragile mind. At the very end of the game Aerith takes Cloud on a dream date that is a recreation of her first date with Zack. Instead of her picking out the gift though, she asks Cloud to pick something.
90% of the comments here I bet didn't even bother to know the whole story or played the game. just dumb accusations that cloud is being an asshole when he literally does not remember zack.
I hope they merge the two worlds together!! I want everyone to be together again and have a happy ending. It seems like it would make sense given the whole premise of the game is to create a “better” ending than the OG timeline where the end credits was when humans were wiped out by the planet and red 13 and his kids were roaming around.
I think what’s gonna happen is Cloud’s world is what stops the events of the occurring events of the another’s. Now that Aerith is dead in this one, they’ll leave it at Cloud knowing Zack and Aerith finally reunited and got to find the happiness that was stolen from them.. and he’ll have Tifa here.
Zack is the elephant in the room for Cloud and Aerith's relationship, romantic or not their bond is tied to Zack and he needs to be addressed before they can move on. If they really plan to bring Aerith back to life, then I can see her character appearing throughout the game reuniting people to stop the meteor, just brief cutscenes like Zack's from Rebirth, and then we can have Aerith and Zack reunite. I firmly believe we could have two love triangles, one with Cloud and other with Aerith. She would choose Cloud, but Cloud will choose whoever the player decides. But all of this only matters if they really bring Aerith back 😂
People do realize that Cloud's memories are fucked right now and he doesn't "know" who zack is right? He isn't dismissing zack cause he is in love with Aerith. He thinks he is what Zack was. Hell the only reason why Cloud even "has feelings" or "memories" of meeting Aerith is because of the memories he inherited when he was in the tank with zack.
I don't get why he'd take in Zack's memories and proceed to act as if Zack never existed. I haven't seen this in anybody, nor heard of a PTSD like this so bad...
He's not acting. The Jenova cells in him are blocking it out. He really doesn't remember Zack. He thinks at this point that he's some random Solider who ghosted Aerith for 5 years.
Well it’s a mix of Cloud’s trauma, Jenova’s cells and Mako poisoning affecting his psyche. Him warping his memories is the only way to keep in line and not breakdown.
Maybe Cloud had wanted to be a hero ever since he was a kid, hence his dream of becoming a SOLDIER. And Zack was his model hero, who he wanted to become someday. All that suppressed desires and Hojo's experiment, Jenova cell, traumas just came together to create the current Cloud.
Well nobody irl that has PTSD has been submerged in liquid magic known as Mako and has alien cells coursing through their veins. So Cloud's case is on a fictional degree in a sense. Repressed memories however and trauma induced amnesia is a thing tho, and the closest to this case.
I'm starting to get the feeling all three girls are only crushing on Cloud because of him having a resemblance to Zack but maybe it's just me think that
It bugs me that Aerith says "wow, you went there" when earlier when Cloud was telling Aerith about Jessie dying and being his friend even though he didn't deserve one she was like "a friend or a gIRlFRieNd?"
Cloud is cocky and overconfident, not jealous. He has not shown jealousy. Lots of misinformation being spread. I loved this scene because we finally got some more info about Aerith and Zack and what her feelings are about him now, and she clearly is hung up on him. Cloud couldn’t care less, him saying anything is so Aerith has a reason to tell us, the player, how she feels.
In the OG, you had a dialogue option here to either say nothing or choose the "(jealous)" option. Not exactly farfetched to assume they canonised one of those two options.
This scene really broke my heart, but I understand at this time Cloud has no idea who Zack is and I wait for Cloud to lose his ever loving mind at fully remembering he lost Zack, his Zack.. Spoiler for end game stuff!! but...man idk...the ending felt so unsatisfying to Zack, a man who is doing his best to defy fate and death all for the ones he loves, Cloud and Aerith, and when he gets word that Aerith likes Cloud and Cloud is some protector role for Aerith, Zack pieces it together and it just feels heartbreaking. It feels like he is lost, but won't stop his heart from loving these two. And despite that he still will continue to find Aerith and help Cloud.
A is so disrespectful to Zack and his parents. Wrote nearly 100 letters to Zack with no response, knowing that his parents hadn't heard from their son for a long time -> the first thought is not "Is Zack in danger?" but "Zack sometimes runs off with girls" aka FAKE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ZACK'S PARENTS. While in the other world, Z takes care of 4 people at the same time, both C and A, A's adopt mother and Marlene (even knowing A like C 😀) I feel so sorry for Zack n A is so disgusting 😀
In a way, she's not lying by giving them hope he is still alive. She might know that Zach is alive in another world. The world where Zach is alive will merge with this one in FF7r part 3 😎
Tifa would have known who zack was from nibelheim when she accompanied him and sephiroth. This is all very weird. I can understand cloud not remembering due to his own messed up mind from mako poisoning and suppressed memories, but tifa? C'mon now...
Zack to Cloud: >Befriends Cloud despite him being an underachieving sad sack with an inferiority complex >Always encouraged him to be better in a supportive way, to believe in himself like he did in him >Fed, clothed, defended him while he was helpless and comatose >Talked to him like he was a normal person while he was unconscious, constantly reaffirming they were friends >Fought off an entire battalion to the point of half-death, still limped to Midgar while carrying him >Passes his prized possession onto him when he died. >Finds out Aerith, who he's fought so hard to back to might have fallen out of love with him and may like Cloud now, still marches into Shinra HQ where he's wanted man to hopefully find a cure of him. Cloud to Zack: >Uses and abuses said prized possesion until it's rusted over and switches to newer, flashier blades because that sword just doesn't mean all that much to him apparently >Says he won't forget him, immediately forgets >Steals his persona and life experiences >Uses said persona to make a profit, not to mention try to get with Zack's gf >Calls him a loser to said gf while she's still visibly grieving, right after talking to his worried and confused parents no less
@@anon_9221Oh aerith shouldve known.. (in the original ff7 and crisis core) since aerith can communicate with the lifestream, and on zack death bed aerith can sense it immediately
@@masokis3141 I think that she was in negation, like the Stages of Grief, because she felt the death of even her adopted mother husband and his feelings for her. She prefers Zack alive leaving and not loving her that he dead because he wanted to see her again. It hurts thinking about that
@@MarcosPaulo-yg7mtyes…. i really hope this game zack and aerith can be together, no hate to cloud but i think zack is more MC material than cloud…. (sorry for my opinion)
@@masokis3141Zack is more generic, so he's like your generic shounen MC: always happy, positive, kind of a dummy, for an anime or manga it works For a game like FF I feel it becomes boring... but still, Zack is a REALLY good character and his heart is gigantic, he's amazing. But I would never replace my current MC
Yeah I’m confused. I don’t remember the details but when Zack and Cloud were on the run, weren’t they considered high value targets.. that’s why they were being searched across the country So.. like.. what where their statuses during the 5 year of imprisonment?.. were they considered MIA or KIA? Or did shinra just know that they both came from back water small towns and didn’t even bother to make an explanation for their disappearance?
People don't pay enough attention to grammar. "He was my first love" implies both that she no longer loves him and that she has felt love after Zack. Context is important as she doesn't know Zack is dead for sure at this point so the only correct use of the past tense would be to say that it is no longer an accurate statement.
Despite the run-around here, I think as far back as the original game it was always Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith in the eyes of the devs. Reading between the lines in the narrative as far back as then, it's pretty apparent Aerith is attracted to Cloud only because he reminds her of Zack because of his subconscious acting like Zack due to his fudged up memories. That's not to say it's the only reason she cares about him wholesale, but the romantic end is Zack. Whereas Tifa loves the real Cloud. In this case I think this trilogy is working toward an end where Zack and Aerith will be more than just the tragic couple, in the sense that alternate versions of them will survive and be together.
poor Zack not only he is dead in this timeline, but let tell him in the second timeline that Aerith love Cloud... also let's make tifa so depressed for cloud attention 😮💨 for all the hate Jill from FF16 got from FF fans, she way better than this Tifa or even Aerith 😛😛😛
you know the sad thing is? He choose the path to save cloud after remmebering being told that Aerith likes Cloud, so he try to save Cloud so they can be together.... what a chad
True but well I think Aeriths just getting him to open up cause he’s so closed off, it’s good for him. She’s also maybe trying to move on, does she know what happened to Zack? Anyway Zack has a soft spot in my heart from the old days of crisis core (with his original VA), whereas Cloud has just been reserved and just about da moneyy 😂
@@ladansemakabre how is she "forcing herself" on him? you do realize aerith is canonically a love interest for cloud right? hence why you have the affinity mechanic and player choices for both aerith and tifa, the game lets you have romantic choices for both girls depending on your personal preference. don't project how you personally feel towards her character onto cloud.
@@ugh5281 i couldn't care less about ships i'm just saying she is super pushy and weird with him. if she was a man everyone would hate her and call her a creep.
If Zack will come back, there is no standing for Cloud 🤣🤣 There is a reason why Zack's first love of Aerith, just let's be real and we're not talking about a toxic boy BUT a true legend.
Did you know that it's possible to be in love with two different people at the same time? Emotions and feelings are complex. Aerith possibly having some leftover feelings for Zack does not negate her having present feelings for Cloud.
The translation is bad. Japanese version it not saying that way. So big difference. Aerith did not explain the relationship or mention zack are her first love in the game. How can they distort the meaning of it.
Unless something happened to Cloud in between the time he took the Buster Sword and watch Zack die, how can he not know Zack? Cissnei is another that made the Gongaga scenes look plain odd. Does not link well with Crisis Core. If she was in the helicopter she would have seen Zack die. Knowing Aerith as Zack’s girlfriend surely you’d let her know Zack died. If she didn’t know Zack had died and you see the Buster Sword with Cloud whom was the last person she saw Zack with, would she ask ‘did Zack die?’. If she cared about Zack and hasn’t heard news in years???
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
glad to see tifa is defensive of zack too. nice to see she doesn't blame him for what Sephiroth did.
Such jerk thing for cloud to say in this scene for that he deserves the girls mad at him. However, later on...Memory be like: "hate to break it to you Cloud, here is your real memory, Enjoy!"
@@UltramarineSeair its the jenova cells messin with his mind or his own psyche goin haywire
The loser thing is a translate error, the japanese ver is just "that guy"@@UltramarineSeair
@@rosieposie1586 Sigh, I dont know Japanese, but my guess is that even in Japanese, loser and that guy are two different words that cannot be mixed up. So unless translator's ability is worse than google translate, how can error like this being made? I can believe what you said is true, then I will have to also guess translator did this on purpose/or being directed to not by error. After all, the animation is the same, after what Cloud said, the girls appear to be mad at him. In that context, loser actually fits the animation reaction. I am guessing the Japanese "that guy" is not a neutral meaning "that guy" either.
@@MaxMaster-jl3ik True he did recall Zack later in the game, and wondered why he forgot. But putting together Zack and Aerith...is a different story. Well, like I said, Cloud will have fun on lots of this in the 3rd regame, and worse, because the plot is changed from OG, he is now having one more important thing he is forgetting and avoiding...
I remember zack crying at the church cause he can't handle such reality anymore but then aerith comfort her hugging him with warmth as if she saved him again from death and depression.... Aerith is truly a heroine of the franchise....
Hey dude, listen, I'm a bit scared for you. I'm afraid if you say something like what you said, those Clerith shippers will come hound you
@@Samuel_Loeganlol true
@@Samuel_Loeganlol I like Aerith but she is mine not them (cloud and Zack) 🤣
@@nubbylittlecat1753 yee. Be careful. You just said a simple "I hope Zack can reunite with Aerith" and the toxic shippers came in like "Lol no"
Her and sephiroth, narrator and illustrator 😅
Okay the slight hint of Price of Freedom hurt. Crisis Core still hurts, its soundtrack still haunts my gaming dreams.
u mean price of freedom right :')
When you think of it, many story protagonist fight for freedom, pay dearly on their life
Like Hongo in your profile, who is like Zack but is insecured lost his parther Ruriko, luckily both of them got Ichimonji and Cloud as their successors
Henshin, to fight for humanity happiness
you ain't lyin'
5:08
“Forget about that loser.”
Cut to Cloud’s blood curdling scream moments after Zack’s death…
At least Cloud took his own advice and forgot that "loser" 😔
@@friedfriedchicken Well he is a loser, sephiroth don't give a shit about Zack either.
Zack: sephiroth!!!! Sephiroth: no, not you....loser!!!
To be fair cloud was the biggest loser. Zac only died because he had to protect weak cloud. It Zac would have just left cloud to die he could have lived though depending on which time line he gets to live.
@@Prominence237 not like it was clouds fault he had Mako poisoning ok so he couldn't really do much to help until it was too late
@Prominence237 Lol Zack is a loser and sucks. He could've prevented all of this if he only beat Sephiroth in the reactor.
Cloud: Forget about that loser.
Zack: (sputters) I could have left you in that lab and saved myself!!!
I saw a fan video with a lot of stuff from Advent Children and Crisis Core with "Anthem of the Angels" which was mostly a Zack Fair video, and I can't even watch it anymore after playing Crisis Core. That was kind of like watching the prequels for Star Wars. We know how it ends, but was still curious about what took place to set the stage.
In Nibelheim it was Cloud who defeated Sephiroth (who was WAY stronger than anyone else in the scene) to save Zack and everyone. Therefore Cloud and Zack saved each other.
@@liyh9717 yes. Except Sephiroth was distracted and Cloud took a silent shot. Stabbed him in the back which weakened Seph. Cloud's victory was still earned, but it was Zack who broke them out of the lab 4 years later. Cloud was mako sick and couldn't move on his own.
To be fair, it is not the real Cloud speaking, but the fake persona he created: Cloud's backstory + Zack's past and experiences as a SOLDIER + the personality Cloud thinks a 1rst Class SOLDIER would have (something like his former idole Sephiroth: cold, arrogant and callous). No doubt once Cloud becomes himself again, he will think of Zack as anything but a loser.
@@johan9428it’s actually funnier when you realize Zack is part of the persona. So Zack calling himself a loser.
Cloud at the end of cc: I promise I won’t forget
Cloud now: Zack? Who???????
Lmao😭
Mako poisoning... In 1997 when I originally played the game, I knew something serious was going to be amiss when he started having cut-in memories of things. My room mate said "I think Cloud is lying. He's not a SOLDIER, and this is stolen valor, which was almost right, he blended Zack and himself together to create a single personality and started living as if he was Zack. Cloud is, as far as Zack was concerned, his living legacy. He knew when Zack died on the fields above Midgar what happened, but was still suffering from Mako poisoning. When Tifa found him in Midgar, he was barely conscious.
It really came to a head when Cloud was telling the story of Nibelheim in Kalm. Tifa gave some hints that something was wrong with his story telling. As we're going to see early in the next game, Zack is going to be revealed to Cloud and he's going to disbelieve it. Tifa KNEW it wasn't Cloud there. I'm interested in seeing who that interaction occurs and what changes are going to be made to it.
@@mr.e1026 this is a joke lol I played CC, but I’m not going to read the rest of ur comment since I haven’t played the og and dont want any spoliers :)
Damn Zack’s parents still waiting for him to come home, good lord, I’ve forgotten this from the original…pain
Zack? Cloud only knows Gongaga
yeah that soldier guy he's friends with really seemed enthusiastic about being named after gongaga
Well, you’re right, Cloud. That loser died protecting you.😢
(spoilers for OG and Rebirth) I think the most important thing to note is that in the original scene, Tifa, Aerith and Cloud were all available to talk to the parents. Both girls storm out, upset and unable to truly explain the whole story because of their conflicted emotions. They end up talking to Cloud about it, somewhat, but it still alludes to the mysterious Zack who is an unexplained presence at the time of the game. It plays into the idea that all three of them were "unreliable narrators," connected to cloudy memories and unsure feelings about the happenings of the world around them. That's why I can admire the remake series in a different light. It's not a retelling of the same story, but rather another version all together. In this one, the events change, effectively testing the audience's memories as well. Do you remember this from the OG that has changed from that? Is this new, is this old? Is this a supplement to the old? Is this an alternate universe? All of those feelings in the original game (the ambiguity, the "cloudiness") are actually manifested in this new game play as another look into FF7.
In this version, Aerith doesn't actively look upset nor abruptly leave because she cannot handle the conversation. She leaves politely, but then stews outside quietly, thinking about the past and relating it to the present. She has something more vague in mind, trying to keep herself in check while berating herself for being "mean" because she couldn't tell Zack's parents the truth. In this version, you as Cloud are not given a choice in dialogue, so his automatic response is to ask Aerith if she still likes Zack. This is commented as "wow, you really went for it," which I love as a response LOL. To which we're given a new line to chew on that wasn't in the OG "maybe. he's never given me a reason not to." In this version, Tifa is not there to be upset about Zack either, which is because she was already upfront about Cloud not really being there for her 5 years ago, and (vice versa) him vaguely (weakly) convinced that she must have died 5 years ago.
I think the changes are fun. Because you know that this game is intentionally writing things to scramble your memories. You're /supposed/ to go "oh that's changed. that's different. that's not how i remembered it." It's not the original universe, but a alternate universe-network where everyone is trying so hard to hold onto this new control over their fate. They're shaky, they're unreliable at points, but that's what makes it fun.
So do you interpret this as the same pushing Cloud and Aerith romance or more of pushing the idea that Cloud likes Aerith because of the influence from Zack? I'm trying to think about the relationships in the game and how they've changed from the OG game. I always interpreted the relationships in FF7 as being Cloud loved both Aerith and Tifa but that in the end of Advent Children Cloud ends up with Tifa and Aerith ends up with Zack in the life stream. I'm wondering if the game is pushing more Aerith and Cloud, especially due to Zack's conversation with Marlene, I'm not sure how to interpret everything.
@@luismijares1461 I interpret this as Cloud loving both Tifa and Aerith, but there's more hints at Zack from the get go. Meaning while Cloud may develop feelings for Aerith, there's a cut scene a little later in the game where Cloud specifically remembers Zack telling him about Aerith and how wonderful he thought she was. It's essentially done to call to question if his feelings for Aerith were even real, because he starts piecing together that he almost forgot Zack altogether until these memories came back. I think what's also important here is that Zack now has limited autonomy himself, because Aerith personally wanted this for him. I think the most important event in the OG was the fact that Tifa helps Cloud remember who he was to begin with. It builds up to him becoming softer spoken and becoming true to himself. And this is while Aerith's lasting wishes were to save the planet she loved so much, and find some closure to her traumatic life and loves.
In this game, how I interpret this is: Aerith IS trying to move on. She does have feelings for Cloud. But she still has feelings for Zack too. (note. this is important because she literally says in this scene that "Zack has never given me a reason not to". it's also important that JUST as aerith dies, and you are not able to follow up on IF aerith would have been happy with Cloud, ZACK dies in the OG in a way where you're not able to follow up if Zack would have been happy with Aerith.) the ambiguity that comes with a fate ending too soon is what's important.
in this game, Tifa is the one being accused of potentially not being real/potentially should have died at the reactor. (which hurts her deeply, and it's almost like an inverted PROJECTION that Cloud is doing, because the one who is "less real" is Cloud.) it's a new perspective on the old story, where Tifa experiences something that mirrors her feelings towards Cloud, except towards herself. The most important thing here is that this is just Disc 2, which is more Aerith oriented until her death, but Tifa got to swim in the lifestream to see parts of her life again.
I don't think this game leans more into one girl over the other. If anything, it's more like the characters are experiencing this tweaked world and trying to work around it. Aerith is still dead, Zack is still dead, Biggs is still dead. But they have access to the lifestream in a way that messes with reality, and as such, becomes an alternate reality. Their autonomy is Aerith's biggest invisible fight. She's actively struggling against OG Sephiroth who is trying to find a reality where he can finally achieve his goal of destroying the universe. And she knows she needs to alter as many fates as she can to do so.
I think the most important part is waiting until Disc 3. Tifa's full story isn't complete until she helps Cloud finally piece together who he is. And it isn't complete until Cloud accepts himself in full. That he's been acting all along, and that he's been living as someone else. Tifa's story is important here because she's been trying to lock part of her own memories away, trying to keep Cloud from falling apart. And a lot of her own people-pleasing eventually makes her realize she can't refrain from telling everyone the truth anymore. Her main flaw is she is JUST as confused about the series of events as Cloud is, but she has real memories while he has faked ones. And because of that, much of who she really is is locked behind her gentle personality, and rocky fighting skills. The reveal that she went from popular town girl to lonely city girl with no home and debts to pay after her own stomach was sliced is all in disc 3 anyway. Its shown in Disc 2 this time around, but I suspect that if Disc 3 doesn't have the reformation of Cloud's personality + tifa's real story, THEN that's when you can confirm that the devs leaned more AxC. If it plays out like Disc 3, then you can essentially say it'll end with TxC and AxZ in the lifestream.)
You have to also note that Marlene's conversation is interpretted as such. "Aerith likes Cloud" "but that's because you weren't there." Both are true statements. in the same way Aerith's new lines "there's a difference between like and liking" and "Zack never gave me a reason not to." Both are true. The reality is, Zack is only as alive as Aerith is. And suddenly, he's THERE for her. (if you look at the cutscene where zack houses both cloud and aerith's bodies, he gave up his blanket so Aerith could have two. one as a blanket and one as a pillow.) So you can't argue that he's "not there" because he's actively trying to live life to his fullest. In many ways, Marlene statement is a Schrödinger's cat. She likes Cloud, because Zack is dead. If Zack is not dead, because SHE willed it, what are the feelings then?
I think Zack acknowledging that he kind of hates Cloud a little is also interesting btw. He's conscious enough in his alternative realities, ALIVE enough to feel this way. It doesn't confirm AxC endship, nor does it confirm AxZ endship. It just confirms that he's alive, and because he's alive he has the right to feel this way. (And he's only alive because Aerith did something for this to happen.) Like I don't think singleshippers can lean one way or another midgame because I feel like the whole point is that Cloud has feelings for both. The point of Disc 2 OG is that you'll never know what the fate of Aerith would be because she will never laugh or cry again. The point of Disk 2 remake is that you know that she is still fighting to have a fate, and to give others (Zack, Biggs) a fate too.
@@RandomBore4Ever I really like your interpretation ! I’m still new to the remake of this game and i interested in new ways they portrayed each character in each scene, to confirm which ship is canon in this remake is too blunt. they are delicate and I love that
damnn
Aerith…. Zack had no other girls he liked, he was only crazy about YOU
Eh not really. Zack being a ladies man is very much part of his character. We see that multiple times in CC. Kunsel teases Zack for texting with girls, we see him hitting on a desk woman at Shinra before Tseng pulls him out of it, we see Zack asking Cissnei out on a date before she declines and when he first met Aerith his first impulse to "reward her" for helping him is to ask her on a date. He was very much a womanizer. A lot of guys at his age were immature like that. He grew out if it when he officially started dating Aerith but it was definitely a part of him.
I love that look shared between Tifa and Aerith 😂 when Cloud called Zack a loser
Well cloud wasn't lying about Zack not being boyfriend of the year 😂
@@Grace-cs5skI mean the guy was a soldier and literally got smoked by his own employer which is why he stopped writing and couldn’t show up to meet Aerith sooooo…
@@bartome7o i'm not talking about I meant that he seemed to think that job was way more important than Aerith and I don't care if he says he loved her but usually a "Good boyfriend" calls to check in on the girl who they love and let that person know that they're all right which Zack should've done but didn't do before he died so I don't blame Aerith one bit for want to move on from in clouds word "that loser"
@@Grace-cs5sk i get that but allow me to retort, in CC Zack has a phone conversation with Aerith promising to see her, this is while in Nibelheim just prior to the incident. Then tried racing back to Midgar with an unconscious cloud after waking up from his coma, and ended getting killed because instead of going on the run he wanted to keep his promise to see Aerith.
@@bartome7oNot to mention he would talk on the phone with her WHILE FIGHTING on multiple occasions
Poor Clud he does not remember that Zack gave his life so he could live.
Blame hojo for that
I still can't forget what Marlene said to Zack.
"She likes Cloud" and "cause you weren't there"
or aerith said about there being multiple meanings to the word "like" but yes lets counts on a 9 year old to solidify your ship. you can like someone even if you dont love them, aerith doesnt dislike cloud, does she?
@madelinemcmillan4020 A 9 year old that was shown the future by aerith and we can assume her feelings in the moment as well because marlene goes into depth. Like she says She was happy that cloud came for her in the forgotten Capital, and how would she know that?
I thought that was cute but also ain't Marlene like 4 years old at least that's what Barrett said to Dyne in the game
fun fact in the japanese scene there's no "cause you weren't there" line at all. upon hearing that aerith has feelings for cloud all zack says is "that's so hyu hyu right?" and marlene cutely replies "hyu hyu!" ... in japanese hyu hyu is like an onomatoppeia, an expression that can represent excitement amongst other things (native japanese speakers correct me if i am wrong).
the main point is, that line is completely different in english... i wonder if they added that to make the scene more ambiguous? since in japanese the main takeaway from that scene is just that zack asks marlene if aerith likes cloud and marlene says yes. in the scene in nibelheim where cloud remembers zack in english zack refers to aerith as his girlfriend whereas in japanese zack refers to aerith as "the girl i like the most right now"... those are not major differences but i've noticed certain scenes are purposefully made either more vague or less vague in the english localization
Zack is too legendary.
forget about that loser
I like how the game uses the word “like” when Cloud and Zack both asks about Aerith’s feelings for the other we know the like they’re referring to is romantic but when Aerith gives the answer the type of “like” is not specified and it’s left to interpretation.
It really ends with both Cloud and Zack feeling like they’re not being reciprocated and with the player wondering who does she really like.
Sounds like the devs are the real assholes here.
Japanese developers are always such jerks about love interests things @@realdomdom
i think it's because of the affection system. they have to keep it somewhat ambiguous in order to make it make sense in the overall narrative regardless of which girl you choose to have a high affection with. either that or it could also relate to aerith's character and how she tries to hold herself back despite having feelings for cloud bc she knows her fate and doesn't want to hurt cloud (remember her saying "you can't fall in love with me" in remake? despite her saying that the devs confirmed she was also kind of telling that to herself in the remake ultimania)... so yeah it could be one or the other or maybe a mix of both.
it's clear that there are romantic implications behind them saying "like" however for example in aerith's final date with cloud if you had chosen aerith's "route" you can interpret her saying she "likes" cloud as something more romantic (cloud's dialogue also changes if he has high enough affinity with aerith as he says he wants to go on another date with her) and if you choose tifa's route (or if you don't care for the romance aspect) her being vague leaves room for interpretation for it being more "platonic" even though in my opinion it's pretty clear that church scene has romantic implications with the way it's framed and with aerith's body language, but at least it's a bit less jarring if you didn't want aerith's romantic route and you choose to interpret it in a more ambiguous way. personally i'm not the biggest fan of such mechanics and it's part of the reason why there's so many crazy ship wars in ff7 but the devs are clearly aware of the ship wars since they feed into it and these types of mechanics makes them profit so...
"because you werent there" -Marlene @user-ky8nd2rz4f
@user-ky8nd2rz4f lol. FF7 ultimanias say otherwise.
And Zack didn't accept anything. He was clearly heartbroken but Cloud is still his friend. Aerith and Zack will get back together in part 3. Mark my words.
It's alright zack, If aerith doesn't love you anymore, you are still angeal's living legacy
But he's dead in this world idk how that makes him a living legacy 😂😂😣😣
Dont worry cissnei is still an option
where did she say she don't love him anymore?
@@zerofabio6916 Aerith never said that
He's alive at diff tl and he acknowledges Cloud x Aerith, ZACK IS MEANT TO BE WITH SOMEONE ELSE. (His fan girls) 😏😊
4:34 it‘s so strange to me how Aerith says maybe in the english version, but in the german and japanese versions she seems more affirmative of her feelings to Zack
Wow this is so sad i'm like screaming at the screen that cloud you watched him die but even when he mentioned the possibility of him being dead he sill has something in his mind that is trying to remember but the mako poisoning is blocking every memory related to zack and i am wondering if its by clouds choice to protect himself from the grief of losing his best friend who was like his brother or if its for another more sinister reason
The former. Zach’s death broke poor Cloud is a large reason why he is the way he is.
Mako and Jenova influence screwed Cloud and made a mess of his memories which is why he doesn’t remember Zack.
You think 😅
Punctuation my guy
😅😅😅😅😅😅
They did a script really similar to the parody of Team4Star MachinaAbridged.
Probably make sense.
Zack is a problem for Cloud mental stability, and so he Is always in defense.
It's so painful to him that even say that he is dead hurt's Cloud
@@MarcosPaulo-yg7mtBecause he's trying to think the guy never exists, due to the trauma he faced in the OG timeline, which is now the reunion, or refreshed timeline. Therefore when he mentions about his death, his mind is unable to cope with the trauma, and shuts that part down. Why does he think Zack never existed? Because he is literally taking his own phrase, being his living legacy. He acts as if he's both Zack and Cloud. Zack's more cheerful and more talkative. Cloud never seems to talk that much which is strange to me, for all that they've been through I thought cloud would've seem to take on or act like Zack in a better sense, with his social attributes. It seems that, his inner self seems to take over this persona that he's created, the Zack persona.
I say this one was less painful than the Machinabridged because not only he hurt Aerith but the parents too. Here, Cloud mostly said what he said as he partly believes Zack ditched her and didn’t want her to waste her time with just a person despite that’s being far from the truth. Problem is, like always, Cloud is bad at social ques
That was funny, I thought this was gonna be the TFS dubbing over this scene, but nah.. it’s just him lol.
Come on cloud, how could you say that to your best friend?
He doesn't remember zack at all
@@sanzianagoglinache8696ik but still broke my heart because just like aerith zack was all of are heros before there was a cloud 😢
Me too and blame hojo for that
Cloud isn't intentionally being an a-hole to Zack (as his friend), he can't remember the guy yet. You can tell he's just stirred up by jealousy. Why else would he ask Aerith so intently if she likes Zach as it zooms into each of their faces? 4:19 - 4:30 🤭
edit:
I agree translators should've used another word to emphasize his jealousy, 'loser' was a bit too harsh. The girls reacted that way because they didn't expect him to get fired up over the situation. He can't remember Zach because of mako poisoning etc. but I doubt he was mean from Jenova's manipulation/mako poisoning, or else why be interrupted by the *headaches* he gets whenever he comes close to the truth about Zach?
Hmm, his head is messed up though
@@Samuel_Loegan what is your point here?
@@elizadoolittle9657 Mako poisoning is messing his head up. That's why he can't really remember who Zack is
@@Samuel_Loegan Yeah I know. That's why I said he isn't intentionally being careless about Zach.
@@elizadoolittle9657 yee. Those two are good friends if we see from Crisis Core
So emotional watching this.
aerith doesn’t still have feelings for zack, she can’t hate him bc he was genuinely a nice guy but she also never got closure. it makes sense to still be fond of an ex, but just like anyone else she’s allowed to move on, which she clearly has.
she's looking for her dead boyfriend in some amnesiac dude, I dont think she's over anything lol. keep up the pure copism. zack and her will be together in the lifestream while cloud and tifa will solidify their feelings for each other in part 3 and create a nice family life later.
I hate to disagree, but to me it seems like Aerith still has feelings for him. She knows that something happened to him, she felt it, but she didn't got a clear answer or closure. Cloud asks her is she still likes him and she doesn't say no, she says she has no reasons to dislike him. She misses him and I firmly believe that if they found each other again and he explained why he was absent, she would forgive him and be with him because, after all, he is her first love and Zack loves her too. They share a background, just like Cloud does with Tifa, those are the canon couples.
@@silverendlessness4052 Cissnei begs to differ
@@huaiguzhu Zack never liked Cissnei that way. Pretty sure the creators clarify that.
She literally still does, the mere fact that she has trouble answering a question like that means she does. She never had closure on what actually happened to him. Clearly she’s trying to move on which makes sense given the years but no.. she legitimately still does. If Zack popped up, she’d literally cry and run to him.
ESPECIALLY if she learned what actually happened and the sheer irony that she is developing feelings for the very guy Zack saved and dragged across the country as fugitives.. and literally only died protecting him.
just want to point out how the Character models looks flawless in this game like wtf
5:00 Zack would have taken it in stride. "That's OK, you don't remember me because of Hojo's experiments, I forgive you". That's why many (and me included) prefer Zack to Cloud.
Using the Crisis core music holy😢😢😢😢
In the next game, get ready for not love triangle but love square where all four Cloud, Zack, Tifa and Aerith will fight for their partner
There was already a love square with Jessie before she died
isnt aerith quite literally dead
yea but i have a feeling that Aerith from different timeline will join up with Cloud in the next game @@ethanwoo4001
That won't be a love square, more like two different love triangles, Cloud love triangle and Aerith love triangle
Zack already accept that Aerith love Cloud. Cissnei better for him anyway 😂
Cloud after getting his memories back: I should have never hurt you... said those things.
1:00 Price of Freedom
I think you can rename the title to "Cloud acting like an asshole for 6 minutes straight."
Jk thank you for the upload.
Well try and get a Mako poising yourself then. YOu probably would be a asshole yourself then X'D
Lol, leave the traumatic dude alone.
@@mastertjt56He called him a loser for being dead hell no
@@mrpringle9479 well he doesn't remember him plus he's a very blunt person. Also given the people that Cloud had worked with in the past, it makes sense he'd think that
@@mastertjt56 not really an excuse considering how cloud, Zack, angeal and sephrioth were all pretty good dudes when they were with shinra. They only went bad when they found out how they were created. I think the girls should have gave him more shit for that especially when they were pissed when he looked in tifas closet
what if cloud is imagining earith this whole time, and she is infact GENOVA manuplating those who have her stigma
I liked how all the girls on the team all liked zach alot, i also like how all the girls on the team keep lying about everything 😂😂😂
“Forget about that loser.”
Bro has dementia from mako poisoning and he even calls his closest SOLDIER buddy a loser who is also the loser who saved him…😢
Normal PTSD symptoms: Forgetting the traumatic event.
Cloud's mind forcefully forget Zack because he witnessed how Zack died.
Thank you for posting the scenes bro. I like watching these again.
People saying the motif when Zack’s parents are talking is the Price of Freedom. Its not.
Its shared by “Duty and Friendship” and “Sky Blue Eyes” both songs play in relation to cloud and zack’s… well, friendship. And when he talks about his parents during a later part of crisis core.
"Sky Blue Eyes" is played in Zack & Aerith's first date in the park. "Duty and Friendship" is played in Zack & Cloud's first meeting in Modeoheim. But yeah, both are "Price of Freedom" rendition. So the BGM in his house is about the three, Zack & Cloud's friendship, and Zack & Aerith's romantic relationship.
@@ZerithSource i guess i just cant hear it. Both are effectively the same song and in my head match up closer to a slower rendition of “Why” than Price of Freedom.
That being said i did forget about the park. Theres also Angeal’s mom loredumping about the buster sword.
In this anime world everyone was either 50 when they first had children or this is what kids think they'll look and sound like at 40.
That's out of character for Aerith to say Zack would run off with other women but...what if Aerith said this is because to not make Zack's parents know that Zack is already dead. You know, make them feel better
Maybe. In Crisis Core, Aerith definitely knew he died because of the whispers. In Remake(1st part) it was explained that she can sense these deaths, like how she sensed the death of Elmyra's husband. This is my gripe with this scene. I thought they would correct this in Rebirth.
@@aileene-ez9gx oooooh *nods*
@@aileene-ez9gx I wanna think that because the whispers took "memories" away from Aerith that it makes some sort of sense now.
She sorta said it in the original though
It’s because of CC. Zack was suppose to be a ladies man and a womanizer. CC rewrote him to be a shounen happy go lucky likeable guy.
Zach's mom sounds so tired from all those years piloting the Guren Mark 2
It's so hard how Cloud's memories ar blended in fact that he cannot remember Zack, but it's a nice touch how some keywords take cloud in a headache, his subconscious trying to show the memories that Mako Poisoning and Jenova Cells blocks to him.
Of course acting in that way it's trash, but it's understandable that he acts like that because of this issue. It's not the cloud we know from Crisis Core, it's another persona formed by a lot of things, and it's sad. If Cloud didn't get that poisoning he could act more polite and could remember everything.
BUT WELL, IT'S PART OF THE PLOT, it's desperate how things we know doesn't shows in the way we want, but if they do that obvious things could not be that fair, and that could ended the plot in a different way, but yeah, we expected a change in the plot in order to see Another kind of story. Maybe one day we'll see a "What if".
I love how jealous Cloud gets. How defensive of her. Barely says anything all game and bam! "Screw that loser, leaving you out in the cold like that" 😂
That's not jealousy.
@@kirara2516 what is it then?
@@DarthPingu07 Literally what every friend says to another friend when someones dumps them.
you have been powering through the game Faz and keep coming up on my algorithm, so i think i should follow... bravo.
Blame Hojo
When hojo caught you...... Aah wait never mind. Wrong reply.
Blame President Shinra for putting this whole mess into motion in the first place.
To be honest I was overjoyed to see that sephiroth kills aerith later in the story
Cloud is so jealous just like om OG. He shouldn't worry "gotta look forward not back"
But how can cloud be jealous when he is not really himself and he is believing he is zack
@@johnshepard8556he doesn’t believe he’s zack, he just ACTS like him sometimes. there’s a lot of moments (mostly with aerith) where he’s himself.
@@fulltimehater6250thanks freddy fazbear for clearing that up to them
@@fulltimehater6250ar ar ar ar arrr
Cloud is still using Zack’s memories as his past. He remembers Zack’s death wrong because Jenova wants Cloud to still believe he is SOLDIER first class. Zack didn’t die in the river. So yes Cloud does still have alot of Zack’s memories. After this Cloud remembers that Zack was head over heels for Aerith. Which then leads to Cloud wanting to apologize for what he said here but both Tifa and Aerith pretend like it’s not important because they don’t want to break Cloud’s fragile mind. At the very end of the game Aerith takes Cloud on a dream date that is a recreation of her first date with Zack. Instead of her picking out the gift though, she asks Cloud to pick something.
90% of the comments here I bet didn't even bother to know the whole story or played the game. just dumb accusations that cloud is being an asshole when he literally does not remember zack.
They gonna merge the worlds together in part 3, so Zach will reunite with his parents 😊 maybe that’s why Aerith gives them hope by not saying anything
I really hope so too. The ending of the OG game is very ambiguous about what happened to the whole gang afterwards.
I hope they merge the two worlds together!! I want everyone to be together again and have a happy ending. It seems like it would make sense given the whole premise of the game is to create a “better” ending than the OG timeline where the end credits was when humans were wiped out by the planet and red 13 and his kids were roaming around.
I think what’s gonna happen is Cloud’s world is what stops the events of the occurring events of the another’s. Now that Aerith is dead in this one, they’ll leave it at Cloud knowing Zack and Aerith finally reunited and got to find the happiness that was stolen from them.. and he’ll have Tifa here.
6:01 i was half expecting him to say women
Cloud with Las Plagas🤣
@@Gigachad03124 🤣🤣🤣
@@MaxMaster-jl3ik 🤣
Zack is the elephant in the room for Cloud and Aerith's relationship, romantic or not their bond is tied to Zack and he needs to be addressed before they can move on.
If they really plan to bring Aerith back to life, then I can see her character appearing throughout the game reuniting people to stop the meteor, just brief cutscenes like Zack's from Rebirth, and then we can have Aerith and Zack reunite.
I firmly believe we could have two love triangles, one with Cloud and other with Aerith. She would choose Cloud, but Cloud will choose whoever the player decides. But all of this only matters if they really bring Aerith back 😂
It’s bad enough he said that in front of Aerith, but can you imagine Cissnei hearing that too?
People do realize that Cloud's memories are fucked right now and he doesn't "know" who zack is right? He isn't dismissing zack cause he is in love with Aerith. He thinks he is what Zack was. Hell the only reason why Cloud even "has feelings" or "memories" of meeting Aerith is because of the memories he inherited when he was in the tank with zack.
5:11
Baret: OH! YOU &@#$ED UP!!!
You cant tell me Cloud doesn't love Aeirth BUT JUST COOKED ZACK LOL
I don't get why he'd take in Zack's memories and proceed to act as if Zack never existed. I haven't seen this in anybody, nor heard of a PTSD like this so bad...
He's not acting. The Jenova cells in him are blocking it out. He really doesn't remember Zack. He thinks at this point that he's some random Solider who ghosted Aerith for 5 years.
Well it’s a mix of Cloud’s trauma, Jenova’s cells and Mako poisoning affecting his psyche. Him warping his memories is the only way to keep in line and not breakdown.
Maybe Cloud had wanted to be a hero ever since he was a kid, hence his dream of becoming a SOLDIER. And Zack was his model hero, who he wanted to become someday. All that suppressed desires and Hojo's experiment, Jenova cell, traumas just came together to create the current Cloud.
Well nobody irl that has PTSD has been submerged in liquid magic known as Mako and has alien cells coursing through their veins. So Cloud's case is on a fictional degree in a sense. Repressed memories however and trauma induced amnesia is a thing tho, and the closest to this case.
Imitation is the most characteristic trait of Jenova cells, which Cloud is infused with.
Well yeah Cloud that "Loser" is the reason ur still breathing.
Zack is legend
GONGAGA!
I'm starting to get the feeling all three girls are only crushing on Cloud because of him having a resemblance to Zack but maybe it's just me think that
Nah me too and it makes sense
Barret: OOOHHHH YOU F(beep beep)D UUUUUUUPPPPP!!!
Barret: DID YOU F*** UP?!!!
It bugs me that Aerith says "wow, you went there" when earlier when Cloud was telling Aerith about Jessie dying and being his friend even though he didn't deserve one she was like "a friend or a gIRlFRieNd?"
I love them revisiting Crisis Core's music. I makes me so happy to see it canonized in the Remake continuity.
Zack? He's gongaga
The way aerith waves looks so realistic and cute
Would be funny in part 3 if the first thing Cloud remembers completely about Zack is their first interaction
Actually, Cloud is the real (memory) loser here.
The hilarious bit tho Tifa and Aerith turn on Cloud at the slightest negative talk on my boy Zack, they know 😎
Cloud is a jerk for denying his acquaintance with Zack sad to see Zack thought of him as a friend
he didnt remember Zack
He didn’t remember Zack at this point, Cloud is living Zack’s life.
@@M0M0117 he should have claimed himself as Zack then if he live as Zack but yea I know what ur saying
@@maichavang92he doesn’t know he’s living Zacks life either so he would have no reason to do that
u clearly didn’t play ff7 remake or crisis core LOl
Cloud is cocky and overconfident, not jealous. He has not shown jealousy. Lots of misinformation being spread. I loved this scene because we finally got some more info about Aerith and Zack and what her feelings are about him now, and she clearly is hung up on him. Cloud couldn’t care less, him saying anything is so Aerith has a reason to tell us, the player, how she feels.
He already shown jealousy In remake
In park date he became jealous of aerith
In the OG, you had a dialogue option here to either say nothing or choose the "(jealous)" option. Not exactly farfetched to assume they canonised one of those two options.
Clouds reaction is one of jealousy, and had zero to do with him not remembering who Zack was, or is. He loves Aerith.
This scene really broke my heart, but I understand at this time Cloud has no idea who Zack is and I wait for Cloud to lose his ever loving mind at fully remembering he lost Zack, his Zack.. Spoiler for end game stuff!! but...man idk...the ending felt so unsatisfying to Zack, a man who is doing his best to defy fate and death all for the ones he loves, Cloud and Aerith, and when he gets word that Aerith likes Cloud and Cloud is some protector role for Aerith, Zack pieces it together and it just feels heartbreaking. It feels like he is lost, but won't stop his heart from loving these two. And despite that he still will continue to find Aerith and help Cloud.
Cloud is wild for calling Zack a loser HAHAHAHA Even for someone who lost his memories.
A is so disrespectful to Zack and his parents. Wrote nearly 100 letters to Zack with no response, knowing that his parents hadn't heard from their son for a long time -> the first thought is not "Is Zack in danger?" but "Zack sometimes runs off with girls" aka FAKE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ZACK'S PARENTS. While in the other world, Z takes care of 4 people at the same time, both C and A, A's adopt mother and Marlene (even knowing A like C 😀) I feel so sorry for Zack n A is so disgusting 😀
this
In a way, she's not lying by giving them hope he is still alive. She might know that Zach is alive in another world. The world where Zach is alive will merge with this one in FF7r part 3 😎
Damn bro he calls him a loser 🔥
They are fucking with things they shouldn't be fucking with.....
What I love most about Cloud is that unlike Zack, he's an ass...which is ironically unsurprising, considering he's initially way more insecure.
I hope they end up together and have their well-deserved happy ending. Zack and Aerith❤
owh no , , my boi zack got NTR- ed by cloud 😂 😂
Tifa would have known who zack was from nibelheim when she accompanied him and sephiroth. This is all very weird. I can understand cloud not remembering due to his own messed up mind from mako poisoning and suppressed memories, but tifa? C'mon now...
Zack to Cloud:
>Befriends Cloud despite him being an underachieving sad sack with an inferiority complex
>Always encouraged him to be better in a supportive way, to believe in himself like he did in him
>Fed, clothed, defended him while he was helpless and comatose
>Talked to him like he was a normal person while he was unconscious, constantly reaffirming they were friends
>Fought off an entire battalion to the point of half-death, still limped to Midgar while carrying him
>Passes his prized possession onto him when he died.
>Finds out Aerith, who he's fought so hard to back to might have fallen out of love with him and may like Cloud now, still marches into Shinra HQ where he's wanted man to hopefully find a cure of him.
Cloud to Zack:
>Uses and abuses said prized possesion until it's rusted over and switches to newer, flashier blades because that sword just doesn't mean all that much to him apparently
>Says he won't forget him, immediately forgets
>Steals his persona and life experiences
>Uses said persona to make a profit, not to mention try to get with Zack's gf
>Calls him a loser to said gf while she's still visibly grieving, right after talking to his worried and confused parents no less
Cloud stole zack achievement and mannerism but he didn't stole his personality. He tries to act like him sometime.
What's the name of the theme when cloud is talking to aerith?
I know its a slower version of aeriths theme but not able to find it
im always Pref Aerith :3
Cissnei playing the long game.🎉
Very long game. Over five years. And most of the time thinking Zack is dead.
Zack is the hero
Bro was so jealous it gave him a headache
No. He wasn't jealous.
Soo does this mean aerith and tifa still doesn't know that zack has died 🤔🤔🤔
How would they? Zack was shot in the uninhabited outskirts of Midgar.
@@anon_9221Oh aerith shouldve known.. (in the original ff7 and crisis core) since aerith can communicate with the lifestream, and on zack death bed aerith can sense it immediately
@@masokis3141 I think that she was in negation, like the Stages of Grief, because she felt the death of even her adopted mother husband and his feelings for her. She prefers Zack alive leaving and not loving her that he dead because he wanted to see her again. It hurts thinking about that
@@MarcosPaulo-yg7mtyes…. i really hope this game zack and aerith can be together, no hate to cloud but i think zack is more MC material than cloud…. (sorry for my opinion)
@@masokis3141Zack is more generic, so he's like your generic shounen MC: always happy, positive, kind of a dummy, for an anime or manga it works
For a game like FF I feel it becomes boring... but still, Zack is a REALLY good character and his heart is gigantic, he's amazing. But I would never replace my current MC
Such gratitude to the guy that died turning you into a soldier unofficially. Copium is one hell of a drug.
shouldn't Cissnei know Zack is dead? everyone at Shinra should know
Yeah I’m confused. I don’t remember the details but when Zack and Cloud were on the run, weren’t they considered high value targets.. that’s why they were being searched across the country
So.. like.. what where their statuses during the 5 year of imprisonment?.. were they considered MIA or KIA?
Or did shinra just know that they both came from back water small towns and didn’t even bother to make an explanation for their disappearance?
Did Tifa told Aerith that Cloud ever in a mission together with Zack?
In remake it is strongly hinted in bedroom scene in Kalm. In OG no.
People don't pay enough attention to grammar. "He was my first love" implies both that she no longer loves him and that she has felt love after Zack. Context is important as she doesn't know Zack is dead for sure at this point so the only correct use of the past tense would be to say that it is no longer an accurate statement.
5:13
Despite the run-around here, I think as far back as the original game it was always Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith in the eyes of the devs. Reading between the lines in the narrative as far back as then, it's pretty apparent Aerith is attracted to Cloud only because he reminds her of Zack because of his subconscious acting like Zack due to his fudged up memories. That's not to say it's the only reason she cares about him wholesale, but the romantic end is Zack. Whereas Tifa loves the real Cloud.
In this case I think this trilogy is working toward an end where Zack and Aerith will be more than just the tragic couple, in the sense that alternate versions of them will survive and be together.
poor Zack not only he is dead in this timeline, but let tell him in the second timeline that Aerith love Cloud...
also let's make tifa so depressed for cloud attention 😮💨
for all the hate Jill from FF16 got from FF fans, she way better than this Tifa or even Aerith 😛😛😛
you know the sad thing is? He choose the path to save cloud after remmebering being told that Aerith likes Cloud, so he try to save Cloud so they can be together.... what a chad
😢😢😢 damn i wanted zack have happy ending his life so sad
I can't with Cloud, this is not why Zack saved him. Leave his girl alone.
Not Cloud's fault, he has mental amnesia. Aerith is the crazy one with low EQ for acting stupid like that
to be fair she is the one forcing herself on him. but this scene is shitty yeah
True but well I think Aeriths just getting him to open up cause he’s so closed off, it’s good for him. She’s also maybe trying to move on, does she know what happened to Zack? Anyway Zack has a soft spot in my heart from the old days of crisis core (with his original VA), whereas Cloud has just been reserved and just about da moneyy 😂
@@ladansemakabre how is she "forcing herself" on him? you do realize aerith is canonically a love interest for cloud right? hence why you have the affinity mechanic and player choices for both aerith and tifa, the game lets you have romantic choices for both girls depending on your personal preference. don't project how you personally feel towards her character onto cloud.
@@ugh5281 i couldn't care less about ships i'm just saying she is super pushy and weird with him. if she was a man everyone would hate her and call her a creep.
If Zack will come back, there is no standing for Cloud 🤣🤣 There is a reason why Zack's first love of Aerith, just let's be real and we're not talking about a toxic boy BUT a true legend.
God I need a PS5 so badly...
You can tell Aerith still loves Zack from her answers. If she loved Cloud she would have said no here.
I don't know how far into the game this is, but I haven't encountered this scene yet so I'm probably missing context to refute that.
Or maybe not everyone is a liar :D
@@Valefolkenexactly, like she said: he's never given me a reason not to
There's no reason for Aerith to dislike him
The thing is Aerith was also very emotional since she just meet her parents.
Did you know that it's possible to be in love with two different people at the same time? Emotions and feelings are complex. Aerith possibly having some leftover feelings for Zack does not negate her having present feelings for Cloud.
i kind of want to see the japanse version and compare
The translation is bad. Japanese version it not saying that way. So big difference. Aerith did not explain the relationship or mention zack are her first love in the game. How can they distort the meaning of it.
What she said in Japanese?
Unless something happened to Cloud in between the time he took the Buster Sword and watch Zack die, how can he not know Zack?
Cissnei is another that made the Gongaga scenes look plain odd. Does not link well with Crisis Core. If she was in the helicopter she would have seen Zack die. Knowing Aerith as Zack’s girlfriend surely you’d let her know Zack died. If she didn’t know Zack had died and you see the Buster Sword with Cloud whom was the last person she saw Zack with, would she ask ‘did Zack die?’. If she cared about Zack and hasn’t heard news in years???
Wow cloud was such a douche that even sephieoth gave him a headache
And spoilers...