Howdy folks! It's finally here! The BUFFER episode! We've compiled all of your questions via IG, FB, and email and put them together in a Q&A format where I give in-depth responses to every contingency that was asked about. See table of contents in the description if you want to skip around to specific parts! Be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a comment! XOXO ~Rig Dr.
Great info, thank you! I have a 3" cable from my last pedal to my Quilter InterBlock45 amplifier. Is an output buffer gonna make an appreciable difference?
Gabriel Souza if you’re going XLR (balanced) out there is typically some sort of low impedance conversion occurring on the output. However having an output buffer can still be helpful for those times you do use an amplifier and won’t hurt anything in regard to the balanced out following it. There is also a Mesa Boogie output buffer that had an unbalanced and balanced output called the Clear Link, which is sort of a SGI type replacement tool. In any case, back to your question, pickup loading on the input and having a quality input buffer is still important so your guitar pickups react properly. You could try something like that Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr Buffer as a single input buffer for your guitar to hit first.
Jon Newquist Jon - no it will not, you would definitely want an input buffer though and having a dual buffer won’t hurt. If you wanted a high quality single input buffer see the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the the Suhr Buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, thank you. I noticed the Stowaway while researching on Reverb. I like that you and Mesa are local to me, so that's how I'm gonna go.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK ... I just put the MESA High Wire Buffer on my pedal board (with 16 pedals on it) and all that goodness that was "once there" returned, and my fingers and my ears are smiling once again. I play a Strat through a Black Face 64' Vibroverb , use the highest quality connectors,cables,power supply connectors, pedals, etc. ,but I was no longer digging my amp sound with all those pedals. I knew I needed a buffer in & out but I didn't know what it did and where to find one a few years back when I built my board. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when I watched this video, and the rest is a VERY satisfied customer. I can't thank you enough for this information - my amp has been resurrected. cheers
Did I miss a mention of wireless rigs? A wireless transmitter will add a buffer to the input of your chain that a lot of people aren't aware of. The buffers are usually very high quality overall, but they do present a uniform impedance to the guitar and have a low impedance out of the receiver. This is great much of the time, but . . . If you're used to having a hideous impedance mangler first in your signal chain like a Fuzz Face or a Range Master, a buffer in front of those WILL change the tone, sometimes drastically. Brian May of Queen always uses a Dallas Range Master equivalent as the very first thing in his signal chain. As primitive and untamed as the input of the Range Master is, it, in conjunction with his iconic Burns Trisonic pickups, is an essential part of his sound. When he first went wireless, the tone was very noticeably different and the wireless manufacturer swore that the signal out of the receiver was an EXACT replica of the guitar signal into the transmitter, which it was except for the input and output impedance. He got around it by including a miniaturized Range Master circuit on his wireless strap BEFORE the transmitter so that the guitar still sees the horribly deformed input impedance of a Range Master before anything else. Just remember: If you're wireless, you're buffered.
Kirk Smith This is addressed in several of the comments below regarding wireless packs and receivers, in the majority of the situations we’re dealing with, impedance sensitive pedals like a Fuzz Face, are not super common in most rigs. Understandably, when making videos we have to make some assumptions about the end-user, but I do mention fuzzes in the video itself and went to avoid using a buffer when dealing with transistor based effects.
Dude! Huge thanks! After a couple of your videos, I found some sources of noise in my board, made a few easy wiring changes, and cut the noise by like 85% without having to buy anything new! You're the man!
I am also torn between these 2. ( Mesa vs. Empress ) I have decided to "take the buffer plunge" - I love my strat straight-into my Fender amp, and I just can't achieve that Pristine Clean Tone with my 10 pedal pedalboard - using all Mogami cables???
Just shouted you out in the gear talk page for this information,I tried the empress Effects input,output buffer on my board,and even though I use a guitar wireless system 100% of the time Live,it cleaned up my sound dramatically! You are the man! Thx! 🏆👍🏽
BIG THANK YOU for this guy!!!!!!!! Finally someone with a straight forward, honest talk, dense information, no time wasting busslhitting, and blabla, (very hard to find these days on youtube)!!!!! He knows what he is talking, no "ahmm.. and oooo... and kinda..." but saying the facts. You should be cloned man! :)
Oakland native (I work at Urban Ore!) just got my first Vertex pedal and you have my immediate attention sir. I am extremely impressed and am now even more curious about some of your pedals I've been GAS'ing for years to try. These Rig Doctor's are great as well, kudos to actually putting quality, purposeful content on the Superweb.
I have one of those Peavey Vypyr Tube 60s from back in the day. I love how the volume pedal is attached to the footswitch and plugs via a special MIDI connector so I don't lose tone. Never needed a volume pedal because of it.
Thank you for the nitty gritty, Mason. This is the real deal and likely a definitive and conclusive reference for anyone looking for this info. Also, Analog Mike has discussed this issue and pointed out frequency stacking that occurs when running boss/similar buffers in series which results in harsh high-end that helped to inspire true-bypass design.
Thanks for watching! That was the goal - even some of the most respected names don't really understand the facts regarding buffers so it's often hard to debunk mythology when dogmas and allegiances are more powerful than the actuality. He and Wampler have some good information, but I think also leave out a lot of things, and Mike seems to prefer the TS-808 buffers, which aren't linear, but it's maybe because he likes the sound, and isn't going for transparency.
Skrydstrup R&D makes a great dual buffer/linedriver (BF2M). It's 400€, but the guy builds rigs for David Gilmour, The edge and many others. Great video definitely thinking of putting a Empress buffer under my small board as a buffer/interface.
I haven't use this one, seems like they're pretty limited production. The specs on it look pretty good, but I think you could do just as well with those I've recommended!
The timing of this video was helpful as I am actually building patch cables today for my new pedalboard and figuring out my setup for buffers and noise reduction is the last step in this. Great stuff!
Snap! So am I. I'm rebuilding a DI board, using a bunch of Lava Cable SIS kits I never got around to using for my main, wet/dry amp board. Good luck! Clean, isolated power solved most of my noise issues, but imo it ain't Rock 'n Roll if there isn't a little 60 cycle hum in there somewhere ;) NB: what are you using for your patches?
Matt Gilbert Nice! I’m using Lava Cable Tightope Kits. Using a Boss ES-8 for a Two Amp rig with Boss DD500/MD500 and dual mono Reverbs running majority of effects - so its switchable Wet Dry/Stereo based on the MIDI patch with everything in preamp loops analog
Based on this episode, I did end up buying a Mesa Highwire this week. My experience: I’d been running buffered pedals at the beginning and end of my chain already. This new arrangement enabled one less pedal overall, plus enabled the tuner to be removed from the audio signal. Overall my tone was slightly brighter (easy to eq back to neutral), maaaaybe more “solid” somehow, and also slightly quieter in terms of noise floor. One of the key benefits has been that the volume pot on the guitar (335 historic 58) became less prone to tone change when backed off. Finally, the boost on the Mesa itself is good - very clean and utterly silent switching. Overall, this was a good suggestion. The Highwire is expensive but I’ve found it a good device.
I would bet that your tone is not actually brighter, I bet that what you’re hearing is what it sounds like when there isn’t any capacitance in the line. If you want to alter the tone I suggest trying different guitar cables on the input since those will be the most susceptible to a sonic changed since there before the buffer. If you want a little darker I recommend the Belden 9778.
Vertex Effects it’s a mish mash of Klotz, Canare, Lava and a D’Addario (upper/more premium one). I’m not unhappy with the brighter/less dark tone. It speaks well and then a small EQ tweak compensates. I’ll do an AB with direct in, but in the end the tone via the board is the one I use so is the one that counts.
Duncan Wylie I understand, as much as you can stay away from solderless I think you would be wise to do so. If you can streamline the cable on the board itself I also think it could be good. Mogami 2319 is super reasonable and super effective for this purpose and application. You can then mess around with different cables from your guitar into the input of the buffer is the first thing on the Pedalboard and see what you like the best.
I wish I could have gotten these questions in before the video haha 1) how would an output buffer interact with something like a Radial SGI? 2a) does having a DI before your pedalboard during recording have the same negative effects as the parallel out of a volume pedal? 2b) would something like the Suhr Buffer with the ISO our be a good solution or is a parallel out always going to cause problems? 3) thoughts on the quality of the Suhr buffer? Love the videos, man. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Moonman Music 1) won’t hurt anything, especially when you don’t convert to balanced and need the low impedance output. 2a) depends on the DI, some are active some aren’t. If you’re DI ing off the input there can be some loss, but very little when using the thru before hitting pedals, like adding a few feet of cable, the Balanced out should be unaffected. 2b). If you need a splitter that’s a good one, the Boogie one is also good and you can use the tuner out as the split out however the Suhr one is transformer isolated which is a benefit if you’re going to different amps potentially. 3) it’s a good buffer but only a single buffer, if you wanted to use this, you’d need two, one of each side of the pedalboard.
The Mesa buffers are the best I have tested. I believe the Klon buffer uses an opamp while the Mesa stowaway uses a BC549. I think the Highwire uses a BC549 for the input and a 072 opamp on the output.
Great video. I’ve been playing guitar for a long time and am only just now learning about the importance of buffers. I’m going to check out the Mesa livewire. Thanks!
(the short story) I bought a couple of products from Vertex (Boost and Ultra Phonix - Love them both). In the process I spoke to Mason a few times about his pedals. During the discussion, buffers came up. Mason recommended the Mesa High Wire to me. I did a bunch of research and wound up buying it (only for the buffer, not the boost). I have a Sebego Sound amp (a Dumble clone). I've been totally happy with the sound of it from the day I got it (6 years ago). Once I connected the High Wire to my pedal board and played through it, my mind was completely blown! Again, I thought I loved the sound I had before the buffer, but once I put it in the clarity out of my amp was astounding. It was great before, but it's incredible now. Watch the video, listen to what he says, but a GOOD buffer. Make it easy on yourself: just buy the High Wire and be done with it.
@@VertexEffectsInc I should have closed with "thank you so very much, Mason, for your pedals (again, I love them both), your sage advice which has made every note I pluck THAT much more pleasurable (really!), and also the TLC you gave me with the "extra help" you provided for me. Class act all the way!
I use buffers inside my guitars. My main guitar has a Graphtech Ghost system which has an onboard buffer. My second guitar has a Creation Audio Labs in-line buffer circuit, and my third guitar has Fishman Fluence pickups, which has a buffer built in.
What do you do once you turn a pedal on or hit a buffered pedal and undoes your on-board buffer? I’d still say you’d need an output buffer to drive the linen back to your amp without any loss.
@@VertexEffectsInc My rig is mostly digital. I use an Atomic Amplifire as my main 'amp', so I don't have the need for one, since there are probably buffers built in to the Atomic anyway. And as for buffered pedals after my guitar, I've bypassed the buffer circuit on my Mission volume, and there's an EP booster on at all times, which stays on even when I set all my tones on the Atomic.
@@VertexEffectsInc Guitar - Radial Bigshot instrument selector - Mission Volume - Joe Gagan Wah - Emerson EM Drive - EP booster (always on) - Atomic Amplifire. Got a Timeline and H9 in the loop of the Atomic.
What buffer would you recommend in this chain? Guitar -> buffer, with a tuner out preferably -> compressor, boost -> overdrive -> distortion -> fuzz -> modulation -> envelope -> iridium stereo out -> buffer stereo return and stereo out?
Mason, awesome video. thank you for answering all of those questions. I am using a TC Polytune 3 right at the input of my Pedal board and a TC Bonafide buffer right at the output going to the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. I may need to use a splitter to split my guitar signal in front of the amp to the amp's input and to a noise gate (In the amp's loop) that requires a "key input" to monitor the guitar signal. Are there any splitters you recommend? also, is it ok to use a Buffer splitter for this purpose even after the Bonafide splitter at the end of my pedal board or is it preferred to use an Isolated splitter? Thanks
thanks a million !!!!!!! i care about my tone and want to get it right im a purest but maybe that now includes buffers if 90% of pros use them live its good enough for me and ultimatley live sound means the most
Thank you for this very helpful vid. I had my Bogner Lyndhurst compressor first in my chain (as per the instructions in the manual) and then my Fender Level Set Buffer. The Lyndhurst is set as an always on pedal and sounded good until I started stacking different gain pedals and would notice so much noise. I saw this video and decided to switch the order and viola! Much less noise when gain pedal stacking. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching! I'd still put the buffer first. It has a 1M input impedance which is more what your guitar will want to see if you're normally using a tube amplifier. Besides any buffering from either pedal is undone after it drives the first patch cable to the subsequent "on" or "buffered" pedal. What you're missing is an output buffer - at the end of your chain to drive the longest cables back to your amplifier. You could use something like what I recommended above (and get rid of your Fender Buffer), or a single output buffer like the Suhr Buffer or Mesa Boogie Stowaway - that will get you closest to neutral as if you plugged your guitar into your amp with nothing in between.
@@VertexEffectsInc I appreciate you taking the time to respond. One thing I found cool about the Fender buffer is that I can reintroduce (to my taste) some of that high end that is lost in my large pedalboard but yes, that Empress buffer looks awesome and is now on my wish list for next year (hopefully). Cheers!
@@eanroad if you're loosing high end, with all pedal being true bypass in between the buffer and the amp, then the buffer is not of good quality. I can tell you already that the Fender output impedance of 1K is way to high to drive even a 10 ft. cable without any EQ change or degradation.
I sandwich. MI Audio Boost 'n Buff early in the chain, input buffer in the ES-8 off (the MI is a great clean boost and high-quality buffer). ES-8 output buffer on. The germanium position-sensitive pedals, my Treble Booster and ge Fuzz, are in an Analogman 2-channel true bypass looper before anything gets to the MI > ES-8 so they don't interfere with each other or anything else. TRS out from the ES-8 to the Analogman. Handy device, that AM true bypass loper. It comes with a remote, but I just use one of the ES-8 TRS-outs. Various buffered and true bypass pedals in the loops of the ES-8.
Matt Gilbert MI is going to unload your guitar pickups, it has a 5M input impedance, so 5x higher than almost any amplifier out there from Fender, to Vox, to Marshall. When the MI Boost is on, output impedance is 10K ohms, not a great line driver, when it’s off, 100 ohms (which is good). However you pickups are going to react differently with that input impedance so I don’t know if you’re gonna get a neutral sound no matter what you do anything that pedal. The buffers in the ES-8 are borderline and could certainly improve that end of things.
Mark Dodds They are cool, but they are only an input buffer, you would still need an output buffer presumably, also it’s not particularly neutral, in fact tube in general is not very neutral or linear.
I use a Morley Pro Series II Distorion Wah Volume first and a Planet Waves Strobe Tuner last. Both buffered. I use a Bullet Cables coil cable too (clear tonality actually). Most of my pedals are controlled with my Vitoos VLP8 switcher and I don't find much tone loss or coloring.
pastorkev777 Is the Morley before you go into the switcher? Is the tuner after you go out of the switcher? I wouldn’t count on those being completely neutral or particularly good at being a buffer.
I was looking at the Mesa high-wire dual buffer, so that would be the first and last pedal in my signal chain? Thanks for helping guitar players like me out. Keep up the great work!
Hi Mason , new sub here. I saw you on a Sweetwater ‘All Board/Ampless Rig’ video. THX for getting at these less than simple microelectronics issues, I’m going to binge your channel. 👏🦡.
Depends what want! They can be bright amps and some folks wanna tame them down by adding more capacitance - ie Hendrix and his coil cables. If you like the tone of the amps as is - I’d recommend the same as above!
I run the following: germanium fuzz face clone > germanium treble booster clone> Trex tuner with buffer> king of tone > boss dd3> tc electronic delay> digitech reverb > ocd> tube amp. Could you recommend a buffer? Thank you!
Sam Packer why the OCD at the end? What’s the amp? I’d say short to going to all true bypass between your tuner buffer and the output would be ideal, however something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer on the output would be a good output buffer to drive the line back to the amp. You could also use a high quality boost like our Vertex Boost to do it!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for your reply! I occasionally like distortion after my time based effects for volume swells in solos or for ambient textures. This also makes for a good shoegaze sound. It creates a less predictable tone that I can still tame with my volume knob. I'm currently using the low wattage fender Bassbreaker 007. I use the dynamics in my right hand to clean up my playing, so I prefer low wattage amps. Do you think the buffer in the t-rex tuner is worth keeping? I'll look into your other helpful buffer suggestions. Thanks!
thanks vertex this is the pro content ive been interested in exploring. the whole pedal on thing throwing me for a loop would an always on pedal negate the need for a buffer
Josh Fowler yea, it’s a utility piece that many ignore. If people cared as much about buffers as they do overdrive we’d probably have better buffers available and more manufacturers making them.
After the wireless - technically the wireless output from the receiver is low Z, but it's better to go with a buffer you know will do the job well. The Shure one is pretty good, but definitely adds high end compared to the direct signal of guitar into amp alone.
Hi Mason, quick question for you. Does the placement suggestion still apply if you are running direct? So for example, if I was running this setup: guitar->comp->drive->delay->verb->amp or speaker sim->full range pa, would the buffer go before or after the amp or speaker sim? I'm wondering how it would sound into a full range system or if this even matters? Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work, Rig Doctor!
Actually this is a subject I've never really thought about in over 30 years of playing & my method has always been too mix & match true bypass & buffered pedals & then EQ my rig to taste & somehow it's always works out!!! I have a better understanding now since watching this video,but I've always had the same policy of only putting the bare minimum on my pedalboard so only what I'm going to use for the situation I'm playing in!! I actually always have a couple of Boss Line Selectors on the go & when I need 2 delays I never run them together so I can a/b with this device & it works!!I know their are better products out there but it works & the late Gary Moore used too do this & their was nothing wrong with his tone!!! My method based more on trial & error & I've always thought that having all true bypass is not a great thing & the same as having all buffered,it's always been best too mix & match & this has always given me best results!!! In really bad situations when no matter what you do the single sounds rubbish,I always carry a spare,spare,spare guitar that has EMG pickups which obviously don't sound as nice as my usual Dimarzio setup but because the EMG's are active they fix problems when nothing else can in those once a year situations when nothing you do can make it work!!! All of what I've said is based on my many years of experience & everything I've said works!!!
The goals here are to explain the right way to do it and then you can deviate however you’d like. My goal is to tell people how to get the sound of guitar into amp even when running through a bunch of pedals.
@@VertexEffectsInc Honestly it's no dig at anybody. I just felt that I needed to add my experiences from my long gigging life in the real world where their are no road crew,technical specialists or any form of nice backstage area!! On the road like this it's all about running repairs & keeping things too pretty much the minimum you can get away with,& this has lead me to the kind of rig I've been using now for around 35 years which is either a old Marshall plexi 100watt or 50 watt head & 4X12" loaded with celestion greenback's (again old not reissue!!) Or in tighter situations old Vox AC30's with Celestion Heritage speakers (I have a few with Celestion Blueback's but these are what I call museum pieces!!) because they're the perfect compromise & the amplifiers work perfectly!!!! I also have to say that another amplifier which I love more than just about anything else is the Rivera R30.These are the best pedal platform amplifiers ever built because channel 1 is pure Vox & channel 2 is pure Fender & this in my opinion is the 2 ultimate clean(ish) pedal platforms you can get,& it's criminal how Paul Rivera discontinued this tonemonster around 25 years ago (please bring it back!!As you're in this business & top of the tree at that could you please put a word in too get this amplifier reintroduce!!!?) & let's just say I own a couple of Matchless DC30's which are pure boutique Vox & I have a couple of Mesa Boogie's which definitely have their feet in Fender waters,but no other amplifier mixes Vox & Fender in one product & Paul Rivera had it & it's as good as it gets!!! Mind though Rivera products are impossible to find now over here in Great Britain & when I got mine years ago they were rare at best & I'm the only person that I know of who actually owns any Rivera products (I have a few!!) & I definitely consider them too be the other Dumble!!
WoW! amazing video .... so well explained !!!! .... it teached me so much .... THANK YOUUUU ... so so much .... greetings from Portugal ... ps: could you do a video explaining how to choose the cables (guitart or patch) ... once again THANK YOUUUU for such amazing explanation ...
I use 6 effects - 4 are true bypass, and 2 are not; Boss DD3 and TR2. I tend to run the delay last but I don't have the tremolo first. I almost bought the J Rockett SOS because it was cheap and I have a Blue Note which is great and it's likely I'll add a few more pedals into the mix.
Great video and info But .. most pedal build videos I’ve seen you do , none have a buffer in front or at the end but I understand that you build what the client wants .
Vertex Effects That’s right . I completely overlooked that part . I actually inquired about having one of those built for me and You said that unfortunately you don’t sell them . But yes you are correct
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq I don't sell them, but I make them for clients that are building rigs when needed. However, I would just as well use the Mesa Boogie High Wire, or Empress if they had them and didn't require any custom functions.
Hey TIO two questions: 1) do I need a buffer? 2) where do I put it in my chain? BWAAAHAAA hey it’s just a joke man put the gun down....GREAT VID man lots of good stuff said couple diff ways 🤣!! KEEP ON ROCKIN IN A FREE WORLD!!
For once, I have a question that might have a happy ending. I have my guitar plugged into a Fuzz Face Mini, Dimebag Wah Wah, Whammy 5, Waza TU-3W Tuner w/buffer on and then JHS Black Buffer. Then 8 more pedals on isolated power (many buffered BOSS). Then the TC Bonafide Buffer into my Vypyr Tube 60. Good setup?
Great video Mason. I always thought that once the signal was converted to low impedance it would be redundant to do so again. Going to have to do some experimenting with this.
“Low impedance” is a range they most don’t categorize properly in terms of what’s actually stable at driving a line without any coloration, distortion, or EQ change. Typically 80-150 ohms is what I consider a stable range for and output buffer impedance. Many of these buffers out there are 1K ohms (ie 1000 ohms) and they’re being called “low impedance” - but are actually unstable at driving long lines. When you have multiple pedals, buffered or not, any pedal that’s “on” is buffering and is preventing any buffer before it to be effective beyond that point, as that “on” pedal is now the buffer until another pedal after it is turned on or buffered. Most people that only use input buffers are typically only buffering a patch cable or two until a pedal is “on” and overtakes the input buffer.
Thank you man so informative. Sometimes pictures are the best information , IE this works this doesn't, wish this existed. I may work on one for the those, like me, are not technically minded. I use a both a boss tuner on one board have another with the bona fide stand alone, and the TC bonafide tuner. But I dont have one at the start of the board. I need to check all my amps have buffers in the loops.
Frank Quinn you need a buffer first and last, ideally a high quality one - like I’ve mentioned - a buffer in your effects loop won’t help you with any pedals in front of your amp, only pedals wired into your loop.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yep I got that part ok. I have an another rig which I use the voodo lap midi switcher, with an old axess router/switcher, that combination is and always has been really like plugging straight into the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc I know , I dealt with directly when he had axess, great guy and amazingly easily to deal with , my ears perked up at that. I am looking at the boogie ones now
I hav the empress buffer + , and i think u reccomended it on another vid as well ,, so . Thanks , best i can tell it does a great job . Also got "ultra phonix" a week ago and diggin it. Thanks for the videos .
Hey Dr. Uncle Master Mason, what are your thoughts on wireless units and buffers? I have two wireless units that they use which essentially claim that they can essentially eliminate the need for an input buffer because they emulate having an extremely short cable. I'm running through like 15 pedals and use a RJM PBC 6x, so I have a lot of high quality buffering options, but not really sure where to start with making those decisions (I also have a really weird signal routing haha). Thanks for the video brodie!
Colton - not necessarily, you still want your pickups to think they are seeing an amplifier and wireless units do this to some degree eliminating capacitance, but not all control for pickup loading on the input to make your guitar react as though it's seeing an amplifier. Even in the best case, having a quality dual buffer won't hurt anything your wireless is doing, and if you have to go cabled for some reason, you're not risking any impedance issues by plugging directly into the pedalboard. If you're hitting the PBC6X right after your wireless, then you should be OK, the only issue would be the output since the PBC6X I think only has a single routable buffer and presumably you have more pedals that loops and will need a high quality output buffer. You might look at something like the Suhr Buffer (just a single output buffer with an ISO'd out) to drive the long cable lines back to your amplifier.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ahh gotcha. My configuration is a bit weird because I have my last loop go through 7 of my pedals and my compressor is before the RJM, so I actually don't have anything outside of the loop. The output is weird though as well because I go through the insert of the PBC into the FX Loop of my HX Stomp (basically so I can send keys from my computer, through the stomp, to all of my wet pedals if I want). The last thing that is hit by my board before my amp (if I'm using my real amp) is the RJM Out to the HX Stomp FX Return, then out to the amp (from a TA Link box). I'm thinking it'd be best to just have the buffer on for the input and the output of the RJM?
@@VertexEffectsInc Hmmm. I'm confident that if you turn off the wireless receiver (ie input buffer of choice is no longer connected), the guitar pickups "see" no difference in resistance. But I agree that you need an input buffer ready for when (not if) your wireless batteries die, or the receiver gets pounded by interference. And having it doesn't hurt anything.
@@coltonwirgau7723 if you use one of the quality input/output buffers I mentioned you don't risk anything - is the TA an SGI type thing? From the looks of it they seem to have a pedalboard adapted version of it.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah it's the same type thing as an SGI. I have it mounted under some stuff on my board and soldered in an XLR Out on a patch bay that sends out to my amp.
Zvex fuzz factory before buffer correct > highwire? Def going to go with the Mesa through sweetwater when I get some $ to make this happen. I was using 1/2 buffered pedals and 1/2 true bypass thinking 50/50 had me solid. Now I’m really interested to hear the high wire. Carl Martin makes good buffers in there pedals from what pros say. You have any specs on the rate of Carl Martin buffers. It’s really the only brand during the “true bypass” craze I heard people saying hey Carl Martin buffers will change your mind they are such high quality.
Luke Weiler I don’t remember what the composition of that Fuzz, typically when you use a pedal like a Fuzz Face, you would want the buffer come after the fuzz, but again that’s for impedance sensitive varieties - and I don’t know about that Fuzz Factory comparatively. If it is sensitive to low impedance, the solution would be to insert the input buffer following it, and then using the output buffer in the normal position, last in the chain. There should be a pretty easy comparison test to do to see if there’s any sonic difference with the buffer before or after the Fuzz Factory.
Excellent video! Very instuctional, straight on the topic. This video made me a subscriber :) A couple of quick questions: 1) I am using a small pedalboard with an acoustic guitar (Yamaha Silent nylon, to be precise). I am playing at home only, so no long cable runs to the front of house or anything of that sort. My first question is whether anyting you said about buffers correctly loading the guitar pickup applies to piezo pickups in acoustic instruments (whether passive or active piezo)? 2) The first thing my guitar signal hits is Xotic Super Sweet booster. This pedal has a switchable buffer (via a small dip switch inside the enclosure, so not the easiest set up to A/B listening on the fly LOL). Taking into consideration the answer to 1), would you recommend turning it on or off? Thanks in advance, and keep those excellent instructional videos coming!
Thanks for watching and for the sub! 1) typically if you have some sort of active preamp on your acoustic, most do - you won't need an input buffer since you already have some sort of active circuitry in the guitar. If it's all passive, you may consider one, and you can experiment with the input impedance to match what you like. An ordinary DI might be around 150-200K ohm range to give you an idea, where a typical tube amp might be around 1M (1,000,000 ohms). 2) I don't think it's going to hurt, but that also not a "neutral" buffer. The adjective to describe a buffer as "Sweet" or "Salty" or " Savory" or "Clean" they all translate to a color - buffers should have no essence - they should be 1:1. What comes in, comes out. You might want to check the specs on the that buffer as I think it's no in the 1M input and 100 ohm output range. As I recall the output is around 1K, or 10x worse than the recommended 100 ohms.
Great video! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom. I definitely learned a lot, but I'm still scratching my head on my situation... and not for lack of independent research - it led me here! I really hope you are able to provide some insight. I'm paraphrasing for the sake of the comments section, but will gladly provide more detail if needed. I have 2 amp rig with a direct pedal chain that ends with an aby amp switcher that has a built in buffer (Radial Twin-City). 1 amp is always on, 2nd amp is used like an overdrive pedal. Using a Friedman board and wanting the convenience of the Buffer Bay 6 for cable management - I have 2 questions. 1. How do you correctly patch an ABY pedal into a pedal board patchbay correctly (buffered or not)? 2. Is running a Radial Twin-City pedal directly into the Friedman Buffer Bay overkill? Hurt my tone? I hope to hear from you!! If not, thanks again for the great info in the video. You friggin rule!
My understanding of the Friedman buffer was that it was only a single, and I think on the input of the system. If that is true, then you want to have two output buffers one for side “a” and another for side “b”. As I recall, there were still pass-throughs on the interface made by Friedman that would allow you to do this.
Unless the Friedman has a stereo output buffer, I don’t think it does, then there won’t be any redundancy, however I’m very suspicious of the buffer in the Radial unit, typically when there is no public specification on the manufacture’s website, that’s not very good sign of the effectiveness of the line driver or its ability to be able to eliminate capacitance on the output.
Some pedals want to see a true coil despite the capacitance of the connecting lead, and it's a know problem that a buffer interferes, therefore buffers should follow those circuits that need true bypass.
John Cougar This is addressed in the video, and applications where a germanium transistor is used for example. However, using broad generalizations, this is typically not a frequent application, and the majority of rigs will benefit from the input buffer. Furthermore, if you do have an impedance sensitive device, like a Fuzz Face, some of them don’t like driving low output impedance following them, so it definitely is in need of testing but most certainly you will need an output buffer at the end of your chain to drive the long lines back to your amplifier without any loss, if your goal is in fact, to have the most neutral of a sound possible.
My current signal path is guitar - TU-2 - Keeley 2 knob compressor - Wah - fuzz - Mf Drive - Red Dirt - Smartgate - amp & a couple delays, Phase 90 in the FX loop. Power supply is a Mondo. Noise gate is rarely used & I may take it off the board & throw it in the PA box for those gigs w/ dirty house power. Primary amp is a slightly modded DSL40. What can I do to improve the signal path as it is?
I’d check out the Empress buffer on Reverb - they’re around $80 used and this will do wonders for you system and you can perhaps use the tuner in the tuner out of the buffer so you don’t have to involve a low quality buffer in the Boss, plus you get the quality line driver in the output buffer of the Empress at the end of the chain. Or you could get a stand alone output buffer and keep your Boss on the input. Something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer could work nicely.
Hey Mason, I'm looking at buying the Mesa double buffer, and just have a quick question. I have a Union Tube & Transistor MORE as the last pedal on my board, on their site Union says "our suggestion however is to put it just before your tube amp or if you are running a series of pedals to put it last in the signal chain." Would you still run this pedal into the out buffer?
Hey mate. Thanx for the video.. Unfortunatelly there were there some not so technical cuestions that had to be answered too. TU-3W has a very sweet tone sweetener buffer... I wish I could put it b4 my MC 404wah and Fuzz face
I've built some nice buffers for piezo equipped fiddles and guitars. And electric guitars as well. I use a JFET and a PNP transistor in a classic self biasing cascade circuit for a high input z (1 to10M) and a low output z (less than 10k). The fiddle would not cooperate with the wah wah. Well it does now. For electric, it drives a long cable nicely. It sounds great to my ears and the design came right off a Fairchild datasheet.
@@VertexEffectsInc , it can drive a decent made cable 20 or so feet. For the fiddle player, it did not drive a cable- it was put inside (before) the wah as an always on circuit. It matched the z between piezo and the wah pedal. The wah wants to see about a 10k pickup from a guitar but was seeing a high z device that wanted a 10M input z. Buffers are kinda specific, this one needed the output to look like a guitar pickup not a piezo.. 1M is pretty standard for electric guitar stuff but many pedals are made with a 500k. Sometimes 500k is ok in a pedal chain, but after a cable of 15 feet? Yup, high end loss.
I use a Polytune 3 at the start and I use 2 Boss pedals . Boss CE2 Chorus and Boss DM2W delay Unfortunately I have a Holy Grail Reverb at the end of the chain but I like the reverb
Luis Hernandez you’d be served by having an output buffer there! That’s the longest line your entire pedalboard drives in all likelihood - your input buffer is only valuable until you turn a pedal on after it, then it’s benefit is negated from that point forward.
Vertex Effects I see. I wish I could send you a pic of my board There is no room for anymore pedals and my Strymon Zuma is already used up and I’m actually sharing two outputs as it is
Hi Mason! Thanks for the very informative and comprehensive buffered video, great job! Yet I have a question for you: I have Vertex BOOST on my board (last in a signal chain) is this the best place for it or maybe I should use it different way (first in a signal chain) ? I use Mogami 2524 10ft cable from guitar to pedalboard - then 11 all true bypass pedals (except for TC Poly3Tuner with buffer - first pedal) and last is BOOST - then 20ft Mogami 2524 cable to amp. Should I think about Mesa High-Wire ? But then where to place it - first ?Last ? Or put all pedalboard into it's loop ?
I think this is OK as is. The Vertex Boost has a great output buffers, same one I’d build custom for any buffers I’d make. The input buffer in the Bona Fide isn’t bad, you could upgrade to the single input buffer from Boogie, the Stowaway, but it may not be that different. Assuming you’re using all good soldered connections and good power, this rig should sound great!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thx Mason, I appreciate you always reply to questions. True, my rig sounds really decent, but you always want make sure you're getting the most of it;) That's why I asked you. I think I'll give MesaBoogie Stowaway a try as a input buffer as you suggested (High-Wire is too much?) Never ending pursuit of great tone.
What about buffer placement when using pedals in your effects loop. Where should the output buffer go? After the last effect pedal in the effects loop and right before the return cable that goes back to the amp?
DTM 1864 we’ve talked about this in a few of the other comments below, however I will reiterate. The same idea holds true as it would with an amplifier without in effects loop. You still need an input buffer first, and in output buffer last. For an effects loop, most of them have a buffered send, so the only place a buffer would really make sense is on the return after the last pedal going back to the amplifier. Something like the Mesa Boogie Clear Link or Suhr Buffer would work there.
I’m moving away from a multi-effects pedal and I’m building a whole new board. These are the pedals I’m going to be running from first in the chain to last, should I consider getting buffers? These are going to run through an EVH 5153 50w Stealth Peterson Strobostomp HD Xotic wah BOSS SY-1 Ibanez TS-9 EVH Flanger MXR Phase 95 Strymon TimeLine Strymon BigSky
Hi. I’m using a gig rig grumpy bot input buffer for my lead tone amp with killer results!! If I wanted to add a separate output buffer I would try the Mesa clear link send/receive options!!
I'd just get the Dual Buffer, Mesa High Wire and replace what you have now, the incremental cost to upgrade isn't much more, and it will be a better line driver and isolate the pickups better that 99.9% of the commercial buffers out there.
Thanks a lot for the video! Very useful. Was wondering is a buffer in Peterson Strobostomp HD Tuner is a high quality buffer? Considering this tuner and would like it to be as a buffer at the beginning of my chain. Thanks in advance for the answer!
Do the majority of bass amps (solid state, class D) look for the same input impedance as tube guitar amps? or would a bassist be better off utilizing a buffer designed for an impedance that is closer to what bass amps look for? Killer Video!!
The Class D amps can be anything the engineer designed it to be from super low like 10K to 5M or more. The input impedance has nothing to do with it being Class D, analog, or whatever. It is more what it was designed for - if pro audio, the amp (any topology) will most likely be 10K. But since it is line level input, a guitar would not drive it directly, it would need a preamp and that is where the input impedance of the preamp matters whether it is for guitar or bass.
Mason what if you are using a wireless at the front like an Xvive or NUX? You hear all the time that “wireless is active” so one doesn’t need a front end buffer? 1) is this true and 2) what are the specs is it typically 1 mega ohm as you suggest? Thx so much!
Hi Mason, every time I try to put my stand-alone buffer (JHS) in front of everything, the first thing the guitar sees, it makes my signal seem sterile. Sound wise, and feel wise. Mostly I notice this going into my overdrive pedal. However, if I put it at around 2nd or 3rd in the chain it seems to work great and the overdrive pedal reacts to the pickups more naturally, or amp-like. Right now it's guitar --> overdrive --> TC 3rd Dimension chorus --> buffer --> Polytune mini --> then onto 6 more pedals. Ha! I know. A lot of pedals for a jazz guy...
I would suggest trying a higher quality dual buffer system like those I’ve recommended, a low quality buffer will change the tone as you’ve described. You can find the Empress Buffers used in Reverb very reasonably if you wanna try with low risk.
Vertex Effects Thanks Mason. If I was worried about tone loss I might do that. I’ve found that is a really good compromise. I only use an 8’ cable, then two pedals before the buffer and am happy how the pickups intact directly with the OD pedal.
Vertex Effects The first pedal I hit is my Dumkudo overdrive -> chorus -> tuner -> Strymon compressor -> POG 2 -> Strymon Lex -> EHX Freeze -> El Capistan -> Blue Sky -> 10’ cable -> amp.
Richard Tyler Osborne I have not dried it yet - but I will talk to Dana their AR guy about it, but you’d still need two presumably because it’s only a single buffer and you’d want one at the start and finish of the pedalboard.
Vertex Effects Thanks for the speedy reply! I actually run a VS XO at the top of the chain and then their clean boost at the very end currently. I like the sound, but I’m curious how they stack up against others 🤓
I guess the best test is an A/B comparison to your guitar directly into an amp using an a/b box. That way you can see the impact presuming all pedals in between these buffers are all true bypass and in bypass mode.
Don't do what I did and think too hard about this, if you like a pedal, use the pedal. My favourite delay is a boss DD3 and I was concerned that it wasn't true bypass but I like it so fuck it
gogajira2 I think that’s totally fair, I would just say that if your goal is to get the most neutral found you would want to have a higher quality buffer driving the line back to your amplifier than what the DD3 provides on its own.
Luke Weiler that’s cool, just don’t use them as you line drivers back to the amp or on the input of the rig - they don’t do that part well in terms of buffers.
gogajira2 That means nothing, the impedance on the output is the thing that is important, again the ability for pedals to be able to effectively buffer the line without introducing loss or degradation varies greatly from unit to unit.
uncle mason, i hve a wireless in the first spot on the pedal board. do i still need an input buffer, or is the guitar isolated enough from the board? i am still using an output buffer, but wondering about the need for an input buffer.
louis cyfer what’s the output buffer? Adding an input buffer after your wireless isn’t a bad thing - especially if it a high quality one like those I’ve mentioned above. This become more important when you have to go corded into the rig and not use your wireless for some reason.
uncle mason, i never go corded. i have had too many bad experiences with bad wiring at places where the ground and hot were wired wrong and had the 110 was in the ground through the chassis of the amp. not a fun experience. the wireless solves that.
the 110 is in the guitar strings through the ground. with the wireless it can't get there. with the wireless at the beginning of the chain of the board, the input buffer doesn't make a big difference though, am i correct?
What would you do if you had a complete pedalboard with input and output buffer but occasionally you’d like to add a true bypass reverb pedal? Before or after pedalboard? Or neither?
The end of my signal chain is a joyo cab box. It outputs at 470ohms. I use two outputs. One for my powered frfr cab, and one to send to FOH. Should I buffer either of those, or just hit it at the begining of the signal chain?
So I run my passive bass (with an active bass boost preamp that usually sits at 20%) into a Line 6 relay G30 system, which then outputs to my board: Behringer graphic EQ -> TC SpectraComp -> MXR VBO mini -> Ernie Ball VP jr 25K -> Digidelay -> Aguilar Tone Hammer -> XLR out. I also have a Boss TU-3S out of the tuner output of the VP jr. What would you change here or where would you add buffers? Should I put a buffer in my bass since I'm wireless?
I don’t think the input buffer will help much, if anything you could put it after your wireless but I doubt you’ll hear much of a difference. On the output, if it’s balanced - you’ll probably not gain much by adding a buffer but you will have some pickup loading from the parallel load with the Tuner Out. Consider using a true bypass tuner in line or using a buffered out of something to isolate the tuner loading.
technical question ... Does a compressor or an overdrive change impedance, when they're on? So, do they work like a buffer when they're on? (I know that "buffer" is not the right term in this context) ... I hardly never play straight to the amp without using any pedal and I think most of us do neither ...
Liam O’ Callaghan There is certainly better buffers out there, typically I’m not using their output buffers since they’re pretty high output impedance ~1K. The input buffer is 1M and and with the switcher having a pedal on at all times it hasn’t been as problematic as a series pedalboard would be with the same buffer.
The output buffer plus the boost is good enough for me. I'm not too fussy, my rig sounds fine with a good input buffer (I don't use that on the ES-8) that does indeed colour my tone - ever so slightly. In a way that pleases my ear. Ain't broke, don't fix. None of that negates what Vertex has said here. It's just me.
@@VertexEffectsInc Have you noticed any variance with regards to output levels from 1&2 on the ES-8? I haven't - yet. I'm somewhat worried, as it seems to be a common issue. Roland won't hear about it, they deny the issue altogether.
Great video, Mason! I am a bassist and have a board with 6 pedals (Peterson Strobostomp HD -> Source Audio C4 -> 3Leaf Proton -> MXR Bass Octave Deluxe -> Darkglass X7 -> Darkglass VMT) going into a Noble DI. Even with the tuner in buffered mode, I notice a tonal shift going through the board vs going straight into the Noble. Through the board, the tone is slightly brittle in the upper mids and the lows don't bloom as well. I am going to buy the Mesa High Wire to alleviate the problem. Do you recommend running the output of the High Wire into the Noble or vice versa? IE should the High Wire be last in the chain or the Noble DI? (fyi I am not running long cables anywhere... this is for recording). Thank you!!!
What if you’re using a w/d/w rig? You use a HQ buffer on the input. How do you address the stereo outs? Buffer after each output of the last stereo f/x before it heads off to the wet amps? Very informative video...thank you, Mason!
Input buffer, dry output buffer. Typically guys won’t buffer the line level input to the wet effects or the output of the wet effects to the power amp if it’s all racked since it’s so close and often low impedance or balanced on some cases on the output.
I finally watched this after you suggested doing so in another q&a. I am looking for your recommendation of the public available buffer circuit designs that I could DIY on some strip board. I already diy'd a popular simple JFET buffer but as you pointed out in this video, it's one of the ones that's not neutral. This is going to be a pedalboard input buffer and installed inside a self modded true bypass tuner to be my buffer. I assume some kind of IC buffer but I'm not sure which one...
You mentioned the Highwire buffer, but what about Mesa's Stowaway buffer? Also, will a pair of Stowaway buffers be good for the output buffers in a stereo rig?
John Kelley Brown Basically it’s just one side of the High Wire. If you want to go stereo, I’d recommend getting the high wire and then another output buffer that has an isolation transformer, something like the Suhr buffer.
Thanks, a good discussion. I'm using a origin Effects compressor as my first pedal. that talks of "conditioning" the signal (certainly no sound passes when there's no power), and then I have Cusack More Louder as my last pedal. That has a buffer on/off toggle. What I found interesting is your comment re a tuner o=in the tuner out of a EB volume pedal. I've never used that out having heard for ever it "sucks" etc. However recently I tried it with my TC tuner (i.e. audio signal goes through the volume pedal AND I have a tuner in the tuner out) and I detected no impact whether i plug it in/unplug it. Is this maybe because the OE compressor (or the buffer in it) is doing its job??
Duncan Wylie hard to say on how effective the compressor is as a line driver - they don’t publish the output impedance on their website nor input impedance. Seems like it’s true bypass, but maybe the relay needs power for the true bypass if it doesn’t pass signal. Ideally you’d want to have the buffer inside the volume pedal and split it out to the tuner out from there. If the tuner is true bypass it’ll do less impact than in the tuner out.
@@VertexEffectsInc A second thought on this... I've always heard/thought a buffered pedal will be muted with no power plugged in, and that this was a way to check. Hence my comment that the OE compressor was/might be buffered. But (1) you might be right that this is just because it has a soft switch type system/activation and (2) I have pedals like the Durham Sex Drive that says it's buffered but passes signal just fine with the power cable removed. So I'm very confused.
Andrew Murguia that statement would be inaccurate. Quality of buffers on the market, build in or stand alone, is overwhelmingly low - very few actually reproduce the input signal identically on the output of the buffer. There is certainly an industrywide misunderstanding around what buffers actually do, some of it has to do with not understanding the physics or some of it has to do with not designing for pedalboard and rack systems specifically and not understanding the nuances of those contexts. Many designers, unfortunately design in a vacuum, and are looking at the practical side based on tens of thousands of hours building pedalboards.
I’m not seeing anything about Swiss Things being designed by Empress. Btw, what a bummer to see that the Empress stereo buffer was discontinued. The Swiss Things doesn’t handle stereo effects :/
Great vid! super informative. Do you have an opinion on the Boss Waza buffer vs the normal jfet Boss buffer? I know neither are ideal for driving long lengths, but have you found Waza's impact to be lesser in affecting tone than the standard (assuming I have a really good input and output buffer)? Thanks!
They're really not that different - they raised the input impedance on some to 1M which is good, but the output impedance is still 1K on them which is too high. I suspect they must have improved the parts used, maybe to models with a lower noise floor and tighter tolerances, but on paper, they look very similar to how they often do. And remember, most of these Boss pedals can have multiple buffers inside them, so using one Boss pedals is like having 2-3 buffers in series in many cases.
Curious about buffers and fuzz pedals. Fuzzes generally like to be very first in line when it comes to guitar signal chains, right? Would you put a fuzz before or after a highwire/EUNA? What about a setup with both fuzz and wah? Thanks for all the insight!
Howdy folks! It's finally here! The BUFFER episode! We've compiled all of your questions via IG, FB, and email and put them together in a Q&A format where I give in-depth responses to every contingency that was asked about. See table of contents in the description if you want to skip around to specific parts! Be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a comment!
XOXO ~Rig Dr.
Hey Mason! Great vid. Only one thing missing, I think. I’m runing an ampless rig with the hx stomp, do I still need a buffer?
Great info, thank you! I have a 3" cable from my last pedal to my Quilter InterBlock45 amplifier. Is an output buffer gonna make an appreciable difference?
Gabriel Souza if you’re going XLR (balanced) out there is typically some sort of low impedance conversion occurring on the output. However having an output buffer can still be helpful for those times you do use an amplifier and won’t hurt anything in regard to the balanced out following it. There is also a Mesa Boogie output buffer that had an unbalanced and balanced output called the Clear Link, which is sort of a SGI type replacement tool. In any case, back to your question, pickup loading on the input and having a quality input buffer is still important so your guitar pickups react properly. You could try something like that Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr Buffer as a single input buffer for your guitar to hit first.
Jon Newquist Jon - no it will not, you would definitely want an input buffer though and having a dual buffer won’t hurt. If you wanted a high quality single input buffer see the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the the Suhr Buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, thank you. I noticed the Stowaway while researching on Reverb. I like that you and Mesa are local to me, so that's how I'm gonna go.
Why am I watching this video when I have literally 3 pedals
You probably have at least 20 ft. of cable - there you go, worth it ;)
Because now you know, you might want to look into an input and output, buffer! 🔥😝🤘🏻🎸🇺🇸
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK ... I just put the MESA High Wire Buffer on my pedal board (with 16 pedals on it) and all that goodness that was "once there" returned, and my fingers and my ears are smiling once again. I play a Strat through a Black Face 64' Vibroverb , use the highest quality connectors,cables,power supply connectors, pedals, etc. ,but I was no longer digging my amp sound with all those pedals. I knew I needed a buffer in & out but I didn't know what it did and where to find one a few years back when I built my board. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when I watched this video, and the rest is a VERY satisfied customer. I can't thank you enough for this information - my amp has been resurrected. cheers
I'm so glad!!!
Fun drinking game: Drink every time Mason says "buffer"
Randy Sosa hahah, you’d make it 2 mins max!!!! 😵
Okay. You’re on.
That was a bad idea. I’m skipping dinner tonight. #imnot23anymore
You will not see the Content when you drink by Buffer 😁🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻
I fuckin' luv yooooooo... Hic! 💖
Did I miss a mention of wireless rigs? A wireless transmitter will add a buffer to the input of your chain that a lot of people aren't aware of. The buffers are usually very high quality overall, but they do present a uniform impedance to the guitar and have a low impedance out of the receiver. This is great much of the time, but . . .
If you're used to having a hideous impedance mangler first in your signal chain like a Fuzz Face or a Range Master, a buffer in front of those WILL change the tone, sometimes drastically. Brian May of Queen always uses a Dallas Range Master equivalent as the very first thing in his signal chain. As primitive and untamed as the input of the Range Master is, it, in conjunction with his iconic Burns Trisonic pickups, is an essential part of his sound. When he first went wireless, the tone was very noticeably different and the wireless manufacturer swore that the signal out of the receiver was an EXACT replica of the guitar signal into the transmitter, which it was except for the input and output impedance. He got around it by including a miniaturized Range Master circuit on his wireless strap BEFORE the transmitter so that the guitar still sees the horribly deformed input impedance of a Range Master before anything else.
Just remember: If you're wireless, you're buffered.
Kirk Smith This is addressed in several of the comments below regarding wireless packs and receivers, in the majority of the situations we’re dealing with, impedance sensitive pedals like a Fuzz Face, are not super common in most rigs. Understandably, when making videos we have to make some assumptions about the end-user, but I do mention fuzzes in the video itself and went to avoid using a buffer when dealing with transistor based effects.
Dude! Huge thanks! After a couple of your videos, I found some sources of noise in my board, made a few easy wiring changes, and cut the noise by like 85% without having to buy anything new! You're the man!
Glad I could help!
Rig Dr.!!!! Love it!!!
Enjoy! Thank you! Hope we earned your subscription!
Couldn't be more thorough and more valuable. You're a goldmine of info, Mason, thank you for this!
Thanks Linda! Honor to have you commenting here! Thank you so much for watching!
Rig Doctor if you had to pick between the Mesa Boogie High Wire or Empress Buffer what would you pick?
Boogie
I am also torn between these 2. ( Mesa vs. Empress ) I have decided to "take the buffer plunge" - I love my strat straight-into my Fender amp, and I just can't achieve that Pristine Clean Tone with my 10 pedal pedalboard - using all Mogami cables???
Just shouted you out in the gear talk page for this information,I tried the empress Effects input,output buffer on my board,and even though I use a guitar wireless system 100% of the time Live,it cleaned up my sound dramatically! You are the man! Thx! 🏆👍🏽
I won’t hurt to have a buffer post wireless, and the output buffer is a must even with a wireless. So glad it helped! Good seeing ya here Kasper!
BIG THANK YOU for this guy!!!!!!!!
Finally someone with a straight forward, honest talk, dense information, no time wasting busslhitting, and blabla, (very hard to find these days on youtube)!!!!! He knows what he is talking, no "ahmm.. and oooo... and kinda..." but saying the facts. You should be cloned man! :)
🙏🙏🙏 thanks for watching Greg!
Oakland native (I work at Urban Ore!) just got my first Vertex pedal and you have my immediate attention sir. I am extremely impressed and am now even more curious about some of your pedals I've been GAS'ing for years to try. These Rig Doctor's are great as well, kudos to actually putting quality, purposeful content on the Superweb.
Howdy neighbor! Let us know if we can help, I’m glad you’re finding the content helpful!
Oakland rocks. Viva Vertex!
Thanks SD!
I have one of those Peavey Vypyr Tube 60s from back in the day. I love how the volume pedal is attached to the footswitch and plugs via a special MIDI connector so I don't lose tone. Never needed a volume pedal because of it.
Thank you for the nitty gritty, Mason. This is the real deal and likely a definitive and conclusive reference for anyone looking for this info.
Also, Analog Mike has discussed this issue and pointed out frequency stacking that occurs when running boss/similar buffers in series which results in harsh high-end that helped to inspire true-bypass design.
Thanks for watching! That was the goal - even some of the most respected names don't really understand the facts regarding buffers so it's often hard to debunk mythology when dogmas and allegiances are more powerful than the actuality. He and Wampler have some good information, but I think also leave out a lot of things, and Mike seems to prefer the TS-808 buffers, which aren't linear, but it's maybe because he likes the sound, and isn't going for transparency.
I just picked up a High-Wire on Reverb. Thanks Uncle Mason!
Good call!
Skrydstrup R&D makes a great dual buffer/linedriver (BF2M). It's 400€, but the guy builds rigs for David Gilmour, The edge and many others. Great video definitely thinking of putting a Empress buffer under my small board as a buffer/interface.
I haven't use this one, seems like they're pretty limited production. The specs on it look pretty good, but I think you could do just as well with those I've recommended!
The timing of this video was helpful as I am actually building patch cables today for my new pedalboard and figuring out my setup for buffers and noise reduction is the last step in this. Great stuff!
Good luck! Be sure to check out our cable videos too!
Snap! So am I. I'm rebuilding a DI board, using a bunch of Lava Cable SIS kits I never got around to using for my main, wet/dry amp board. Good luck! Clean, isolated power solved most of my noise issues, but imo it ain't Rock 'n Roll if there isn't a little 60 cycle hum in there somewhere ;)
NB: what are you using for your patches?
Matt Gilbert Nice! I’m using Lava Cable Tightope Kits. Using a Boss ES-8 for a Two Amp rig with Boss DD500/MD500 and dual mono Reverbs running majority of effects - so its switchable Wet Dry/Stereo based on the MIDI patch with everything in preamp loops analog
Try to stay away from solderless if you can - not advisable for longevity.
@@VertexEffectsInc I can't solder. Never will be able to, either.
Based on this episode, I did end up buying a Mesa Highwire this week. My experience: I’d been running buffered pedals at the beginning and end of my chain already. This new arrangement enabled one less pedal overall, plus enabled the tuner to be removed from the audio signal. Overall my tone was slightly brighter (easy to eq back to neutral), maaaaybe more “solid” somehow, and also slightly quieter in terms of noise floor. One of the key benefits has been that the volume pot on the guitar (335 historic 58) became less prone to tone change when backed off. Finally, the boost on the Mesa itself is good - very clean and utterly silent switching. Overall, this was a good suggestion. The Highwire is expensive but I’ve found it a good device.
I would bet that your tone is not actually brighter, I bet that what you’re hearing is what it sounds like when there isn’t any capacitance in the line. If you want to alter the tone I suggest trying different guitar cables on the input since those will be the most susceptible to a sonic changed since there before the buffer. If you want a little darker I recommend the Belden 9778.
I expect that’s right. It’s perceived brighter but it’s more a case of removal of the imposed darkening.
Mess around with your input cable, what brand cables are you using?
Vertex Effects it’s a mish mash of Klotz, Canare, Lava and a D’Addario (upper/more premium one). I’m not unhappy with the brighter/less dark tone. It speaks well and then a small EQ tweak compensates. I’ll do an AB with direct in, but in the end the tone via the board is the one I use so is the one that counts.
Duncan Wylie I understand, as much as you can stay away from solderless I think you would be wise to do so. If you can streamline the cable on the board itself I also think it could be good. Mogami 2319 is super reasonable and super effective for this purpose and application. You can then mess around with different cables from your guitar into the input of the buffer is the first thing on the Pedalboard and see what you like the best.
I wish I could have gotten these questions in before the video haha
1) how would an output buffer interact with something like a Radial SGI?
2a) does having a DI before your pedalboard during recording have the same negative effects as the parallel out of a volume pedal?
2b) would something like the Suhr Buffer with the ISO our be a good solution or is a parallel out always going to cause problems?
3) thoughts on the quality of the Suhr buffer?
Love the videos, man. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Moonman Music 1) won’t hurt anything, especially when you don’t convert to balanced and need the low impedance output. 2a) depends on the DI, some are active some aren’t. If you’re DI ing off the input there can be some loss, but very little when using the thru before hitting pedals, like adding a few feet of cable, the Balanced out should be unaffected. 2b). If you need a splitter that’s a good one, the Boogie one is also good and you can use the tuner out as the split out however the Suhr one is transformer isolated which is a benefit if you’re going to different amps potentially. 3) it’s a good buffer but only a single buffer, if you wanted to use this, you’d need two, one of each side of the pedalboard.
Thank you Mason for answering my question about the design of an input and output buffer! You are the man! 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks for watching!
I've been learning tons from you these past few days as I dig into pedals more and more! Building a board myself and this has all been a major help.
Great to hear!
I see our Instagram conversation inspired something! Thank for the awesome video and all the help.
Lots of good feedback from IG - thanks for your input!
The Mesa buffers are the best I have tested. I believe the Klon buffer uses an opamp while the Mesa stowaway uses a BC549. I think the Highwire uses a BC549 for the input and a 072 opamp on the output.
Great video. I’ve been playing guitar for a long time and am only just now learning about the importance of buffers. I’m going to check out the Mesa livewire. Thanks!
Yes indeed! Glad to help!
(the short story) I bought a couple of products from Vertex (Boost and Ultra Phonix - Love them both). In the process I spoke to Mason a few times about his pedals. During the discussion, buffers came up. Mason recommended the Mesa High Wire to me. I did a bunch of research and wound up buying it (only for the buffer, not the boost). I have a Sebego Sound amp (a Dumble clone). I've been totally happy with the sound of it from the day I got it (6 years ago). Once I connected the High Wire to my pedal board and played through it, my mind was completely blown! Again, I thought I loved the sound I had before the buffer, but once I put it in the clarity out of my amp was astounding. It was great before, but it's incredible now. Watch the video, listen to what he says, but a GOOD buffer. Make it easy on yourself: just buy the High Wire and be done with it.
True story! So glad this helped Greg, I think once you play a real quality buffer it's impossible not to see the light, as they say!
@@VertexEffectsInc I should have closed with "thank you so very much, Mason, for your pedals (again, I love them both), your sage advice which has made every note I pluck THAT much more pleasurable (really!), and also the TLC you gave me with the "extra help" you provided for me. Class act all the way!
Greg Gavalakis thank you so much Greg! Glad we could help!
I use buffers inside my guitars. My main guitar has a Graphtech Ghost system which has an onboard buffer. My second guitar has a Creation Audio Labs in-line buffer circuit, and my third guitar has Fishman Fluence pickups, which has a buffer built in.
What do you do once you turn a pedal on or hit a buffered pedal and undoes your on-board buffer? I’d still say you’d need an output buffer to drive the linen back to your amp without any loss.
@@VertexEffectsInc My rig is mostly digital. I use an Atomic Amplifire as my main 'amp', so I don't have the need for one, since there are probably buffers built in to the Atomic anyway. And as for buffered pedals after my guitar, I've bypassed the buffer circuit on my Mission volume, and there's an EP booster on at all times, which stays on even when I set all my tones on the Atomic.
Vikram Vivekanand is the EP the first thing your guitar hits?
@@VertexEffectsInc Guitar - Radial Bigshot instrument selector - Mission Volume - Joe Gagan Wah - Emerson EM Drive - EP booster (always on) - Atomic Amplifire.
Got a Timeline and H9 in the loop of the Atomic.
You should definitely build a Vertex buffer & thank you for all the knowledge!!
My pleasure, that my be a possibility!
Fantastic in depth buffer explanation! Thanks dude...YOU ROCK! 😎🎸
Glad you found it helpful! Hope we earned your subscription!
What buffer would you recommend in this chain?
Guitar -> buffer, with a tuner out preferably -> compressor, boost -> overdrive -> distortion -> fuzz -> modulation -> envelope -> iridium stereo out -> buffer stereo return and stereo out?
Mason, awesome video. thank you for answering all of those questions.
I am using a TC Polytune 3 right at the input of my Pedal board and a TC Bonafide buffer right at the output going to the amp.
Perfect!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. I may need to use a splitter to split my guitar signal in front of the amp to the amp's input and to a noise gate (In the amp's loop) that requires a "key input" to monitor the guitar signal. Are there any splitters you recommend? also, is it ok to use a Buffer splitter for this purpose even after the Bonafide splitter at the end of my pedal board or is it preferred to use an Isolated splitter?
Thanks
@@Bash_Man If the Bonafide has a buffered output you can make a Y cable off it for the Key input.
@@VertexEffectsInc thank you very much.
Hi mate, can you share your signal chain? Thanks
thanks a million !!!!!!! i care about my tone and want to get it right im a purest but maybe that now includes buffers if 90% of pros use them live its good enough for me and ultimatley live sound means the most
Josh Fowler 👍👍👍
I have the empress buffer plus (with the built in boost) and I loveee it!
Kyle Coleman yes!!!
Thank you for this very helpful vid. I had my Bogner Lyndhurst compressor first in my chain (as per the instructions in the manual) and then my Fender Level Set Buffer. The Lyndhurst is set as an always on pedal and sounded good until I started stacking different gain pedals and would notice so much noise. I saw this video and decided to switch the order and viola! Much less noise when gain pedal stacking. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching! I'd still put the buffer first. It has a 1M input impedance which is more what your guitar will want to see if you're normally using a tube amplifier. Besides any buffering from either pedal is undone after it drives the first patch cable to the subsequent "on" or "buffered" pedal. What you're missing is an output buffer - at the end of your chain to drive the longest cables back to your amplifier. You could use something like what I recommended above (and get rid of your Fender Buffer), or a single output buffer like the Suhr Buffer or Mesa Boogie Stowaway - that will get you closest to neutral as if you plugged your guitar into your amp with nothing in between.
@@VertexEffectsInc I appreciate you taking the time to respond. One thing I found cool about the Fender buffer is that I can reintroduce (to my taste) some of that high end that is lost in my large pedalboard but yes, that Empress buffer looks awesome and is now on my wish list for next year (hopefully). Cheers!
@@eanroad if you're loosing high end, with all pedal being true bypass in between the buffer and the amp, then the buffer is not of good quality. I can tell you already that the Fender output impedance of 1K is way to high to drive even a 10 ft. cable without any EQ change or degradation.
@@VertexEffectsInc Word. Thanks man!
@@eanroad my pleasure!
I sandwich. MI Audio Boost 'n Buff early in the chain, input buffer in the ES-8 off (the MI is a great clean boost and high-quality buffer). ES-8 output buffer on. The germanium position-sensitive pedals, my Treble Booster and ge Fuzz, are in an Analogman 2-channel true bypass looper before anything gets to the MI > ES-8 so they don't interfere with each other or anything else. TRS out from the ES-8 to the Analogman. Handy device, that AM true bypass loper. It comes with a remote, but I just use one of the ES-8 TRS-outs.
Various buffered and true bypass pedals in the loops of the ES-8.
Matt Gilbert MI is going to unload your guitar pickups, it has a 5M input impedance, so 5x higher than almost any amplifier out there from Fender, to Vox, to Marshall. When the MI Boost is on, output impedance is 10K ohms, not a great line driver, when it’s off, 100 ohms (which is good). However you pickups are going to react differently with that input impedance so I don’t know if you’re gonna get a neutral sound no matter what you do anything that pedal. The buffers in the ES-8 are borderline and could certainly improve that end of things.
I have been using a VHT Valvulator 1 tube buffer for years. Love it.
Mark Dodds They are cool, but they are only an input buffer, you would still need an output buffer presumably, also it’s not particularly neutral, in fact tube in general is not very neutral or linear.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes thanks for the reply. I have learned a lot from your videos on the subject. I am eyeballing the Suhr as an output buffer.
I use a Morley Pro Series II Distorion Wah Volume first and a Planet Waves Strobe Tuner last. Both buffered. I use a Bullet Cables coil cable too (clear tonality actually). Most of my pedals are controlled with my Vitoos VLP8 switcher and I don't find much tone loss or coloring.
pastorkev777 Is the Morley before you go into the switcher? Is the tuner after you go out of the switcher? I wouldn’t count on those being completely neutral or particularly good at being a buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc the morley is before the switcher and the tuner after. They seem to be sufficient for now. I too doubt that they are very neutral.
The backing music in this video is great. Tim Marco is pretty slick!
Check Timmy out on Instagram!
Super Awesome ‘tutorial’! Please consider writing a little booklet on this topic.
Larry Sann good idea!
I was looking at the Mesa high-wire dual buffer, so that would be the first and last pedal in my signal chain? Thanks for helping guitar players like me out. Keep up the great work!
Michael Mike precisely! So glad it works for you!
Hi Mason , new sub here.
I saw you on a Sweetwater ‘All Board/Ampless Rig’ video.
THX for getting at these less than simple microelectronics issues, I’m going to binge your channel.
👏🦡.
Welcome aboard! Thanks for the support!
Woooowwwww!!!!!! What a great video mason. What kind of buffer do you recommand for marshall jtm45 with kt66. So instructive. BRAVO
Depends what want! They can be bright amps and some folks wanna tame them down by adding more capacitance - ie Hendrix and his coil cables. If you like the tone of the amps as is - I’d recommend the same as above!
I run the following:
germanium fuzz face clone > germanium treble booster clone> Trex tuner with buffer> king of tone > boss dd3> tc electronic delay> digitech reverb > ocd> tube amp. Could you recommend a buffer? Thank you!
Sam Packer why the OCD at the end? What’s the amp? I’d say short to going to all true bypass between your tuner buffer and the output would be ideal, however something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer on the output would be a good output buffer to drive the line back to the amp. You could also use a high quality boost like our Vertex Boost to do it!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for your reply! I occasionally like distortion after my time based effects for volume swells in solos or for ambient textures. This also makes for a good shoegaze sound. It creates a less predictable tone that I can still tame with my volume knob. I'm currently using the low wattage fender Bassbreaker 007. I use the dynamics in my right hand to clean up my playing, so I prefer low wattage amps. Do you think the buffer in the t-rex tuner is worth keeping? I'll look into your other helpful buffer suggestions. Thanks!
thanks vertex this is the pro content ive been interested in exploring. the whole pedal on thing throwing me for a loop would an always on pedal negate the need for a buffer
Josh Fowler yea, it’s a utility piece that many ignore. If people cared as much about buffers as they do overdrive we’d probably have better buffers available and more manufacturers making them.
If you are using a wireless where do you put the buffer. Dont think that was covered ( sorry )
After the wireless - technically the wireless output from the receiver is low Z, but it's better to go with a buffer you know will do the job well. The Shure one is pretty good, but definitely adds high end compared to the direct signal of guitar into amp alone.
Hi Mason, quick question for you. Does the placement suggestion still apply if you are running direct? So for example, if I was running this setup: guitar->comp->drive->delay->verb->amp or speaker sim->full range pa, would the buffer go before or after the amp or speaker sim? I'm wondering how it would sound into a full range system or if this even matters? Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work, Rig Doctor!
Sound of Seventy Three The cable capacitance is still seen in either scenario. Rules still apply
@@VertexEffectsInc, awesome, thank you, Mason!
Actually this is a subject I've never really thought about in over 30 years of playing & my method has always been too mix & match true bypass & buffered pedals & then EQ my rig to taste & somehow it's always works out!!!
I have a better understanding now since watching this video,but I've always had the same policy of only putting the bare minimum on my pedalboard so only what I'm going to use for the situation I'm playing in!!
I actually always have a couple of Boss Line Selectors on the go & when I need 2 delays I never run them together so I can a/b with this device & it works!!I know their are better products out there but it works & the late Gary Moore used too do this & their was nothing wrong with his tone!!!
My method based more on trial & error & I've always thought that having all true bypass is not a great thing & the same as having all buffered,it's always been best too mix & match & this has always given me best results!!!
In really bad situations when no matter what you do the single sounds rubbish,I always carry a spare,spare,spare guitar that has EMG pickups which obviously don't sound as nice as my usual Dimarzio setup but because the EMG's are active they fix problems when nothing else can in those once a year situations when nothing you do can make it work!!!
All of what I've said is based on my many years of experience & everything I've said works!!!
The goals here are to explain the right way to do it and then you can deviate however you’d like. My goal is to tell people how to get the sound of guitar into amp even when running through a bunch of pedals.
@@VertexEffectsInc Honestly it's no dig at anybody.
I just felt that I needed to add my experiences from my long gigging life in the real world where their are no road crew,technical specialists or any form of nice backstage area!!
On the road like this it's all about running repairs & keeping things too pretty much the minimum you can get away with,& this has lead me to the kind of rig I've been using now for around 35 years which is either a old Marshall plexi 100watt or 50 watt head & 4X12" loaded with celestion greenback's (again old not reissue!!) Or in tighter situations old Vox AC30's with Celestion Heritage speakers (I have a few with Celestion Blueback's but these are what I call museum pieces!!) because they're the perfect compromise & the amplifiers work perfectly!!!!
I also have to say that another amplifier which I love more than just about anything else is the Rivera R30.These are the best pedal platform amplifiers ever built because channel 1 is pure Vox & channel 2 is pure Fender & this in my opinion is the 2 ultimate clean(ish) pedal platforms you can get,& it's criminal how Paul Rivera discontinued this tonemonster around 25 years ago (please bring it back!!As you're in this business & top of the tree at that could you please put a word in too get this amplifier reintroduce!!!?) & let's just say I own a couple of Matchless DC30's which are pure boutique Vox & I have a couple of Mesa Boogie's which definitely have their feet in Fender waters,but no other amplifier mixes Vox & Fender in one product & Paul Rivera had it & it's as good as it gets!!!
Mind though Rivera products are impossible to find now over here in Great Britain & when I got mine years ago they were rare at best & I'm the only person that I know of who actually owns any Rivera products (I have a few!!) & I definitely consider them too be the other Dumble!!
WoW! amazing video .... so well explained !!!! .... it teached me so much .... THANK YOUUUU ... so so much .... greetings from Portugal ... ps: could you do a video explaining how to choose the cables (guitart or patch) ... once again THANK YOUUUU for such amazing explanation ...
acrobata thank you for watching! I will add that to our list of videos!
Straight up bought an empress buffer after watching this.
So glad it helped
And I bought the Mesa highway, used, for $175. Definitely works.
I use 6 effects - 4 are true bypass, and 2 are not; Boss DD3 and TR2. I tend to run the delay last but I don't have the tremolo first. I almost bought the J Rockett SOS because it was cheap and I have a Blue Note which is great and it's likely I'll add a few more pedals into the mix.
I would still recommend a high quality input and output buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc Oh thanks for your reply, very helpful.
@@idontwanttousemynameyoutub7538 I'm so glad!
Great video and info
But .. most pedal build videos I’ve seen you do , none have a buffer in front or at the end but I understand that you build what the client wants .
Luis Hernandez not true, many do, most in fact - I’m typically building them in, or using them in the switcher provided.
Vertex Effects That’s right . I completely overlooked that part . I actually inquired about having one of those built for me and You said that unfortunately you don’t sell them . But yes you are correct
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq I don't sell them, but I make them for clients that are building rigs when needed. However, I would just as well use the Mesa Boogie High Wire, or Empress if they had them and didn't require any custom functions.
Hi Mason. Can I go: Wah > Fuzz > TC Poly 3 with Buffer > 7 more pedals > Mesa Stowaway > Amp ? Appreciate any Input.
You can...sometimes the Wah first can be problematic in terms of sweep however.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. Appreciate your input. I use a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe 2009 non-buffer = love it.
@@michael_caz_nyc Those are great! I'd experiment with the Wah after the fuzz as well.
Hey TIO two questions: 1) do I need a buffer? 2) where do I put it in my chain? BWAAAHAAA hey it’s just a joke man put the gun down....GREAT VID man lots of good stuff said couple diff ways 🤣!! KEEP ON ROCKIN IN A FREE WORLD!!
Thanks 🙏 for watching as always!!!!!
Epic info, you should go in the rock n roll buffer hall of fame
hahahaha! New category for 2021!
For once, I have a question that might have a happy ending. I have my guitar plugged into a Fuzz Face Mini, Dimebag Wah Wah, Whammy 5, Waza TU-3W Tuner w/buffer on and then JHS Black Buffer. Then 8 more pedals on isolated power (many buffered BOSS). Then the TC Bonafide Buffer into my Vypyr Tube 60. Good setup?
Great video Mason. I always thought that once the signal was converted to low impedance it would be redundant to do so again. Going to have to do some experimenting with this.
“Low impedance” is a range they most don’t categorize properly in terms of what’s actually stable at driving a line without any coloration, distortion, or EQ change. Typically 80-150 ohms is what I consider a stable range for and output buffer impedance. Many of these buffers out there are 1K ohms (ie 1000 ohms) and they’re being called “low impedance” - but are actually unstable at driving long lines. When you have multiple pedals, buffered or not, any pedal that’s “on” is buffering and is preventing any buffer before it to be effective beyond that point, as that “on” pedal is now the buffer until another pedal after it is turned on or buffered. Most people that only use input buffers are typically only buffering a patch cable or two until a pedal is “on” and overtakes the input buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc As always great info! Thanks very much for taking the time to do them.
John Lucus my pleasure! I hope we earned your subscription!
@@VertexEffectsIncLOL! Ive been in since the "Modding a Volume Pedal" Episode.
John Lucus early days!
Thank you man so informative. Sometimes pictures are the best information , IE this works this doesn't, wish this existed. I may work on one for the those, like me, are not technically minded. I use a both a boss tuner on one board have another with the bona fide stand alone, and the TC bonafide tuner. But I dont have one at the start of the board. I need to check all my amps have buffers in the loops.
Frank Quinn you need a buffer first and last, ideally a high quality one - like I’ve mentioned - a buffer in your effects loop won’t help you with any pedals in front of your amp, only pedals wired into your loop.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yep I got that part ok. I have an another rig which I use the voodo lap midi switcher, with an old axess router/switcher, that combination is and always has been really like plugging straight into the amp.
Frank Quinn coincidentally Mario Mario, the former owner of Axess, designed the Mesa Boogie High Wire I recommended in the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc I know , I dealt with directly when he had axess, great guy and amazingly easily to deal with , my ears perked up at that. I am looking at the boogie ones now
Frank Quinn well worth it!
I hav the empress buffer + , and i think u reccomended it on another vid as well ,, so . Thanks , best i can tell it does a great job . Also got "ultra phonix" a week ago and diggin it. Thanks for the videos .
Glenn Winburn thanks a million Glenn! You got a good buffer and a good OD too!
Hey Dr. Uncle Master Mason, what are your thoughts on wireless units and buffers? I have two wireless units that they use which essentially claim that they can essentially eliminate the need for an input buffer because they emulate having an extremely short cable. I'm running through like 15 pedals and use a RJM PBC 6x, so I have a lot of high quality buffering options, but not really sure where to start with making those decisions (I also have a really weird signal routing haha). Thanks for the video brodie!
Colton - not necessarily, you still want your pickups to think they are seeing an amplifier and wireless units do this to some degree eliminating capacitance, but not all control for pickup loading on the input to make your guitar react as though it's seeing an amplifier. Even in the best case, having a quality dual buffer won't hurt anything your wireless is doing, and if you have to go cabled for some reason, you're not risking any impedance issues by plugging directly into the pedalboard. If you're hitting the PBC6X right after your wireless, then you should be OK, the only issue would be the output since the PBC6X I think only has a single routable buffer and presumably you have more pedals that loops and will need a high quality output buffer. You might look at something like the Suhr Buffer (just a single output buffer with an ISO'd out) to drive the long cable lines back to your amplifier.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ahh gotcha. My configuration is a bit weird because I have my last loop go through 7 of my pedals and my compressor is before the RJM, so I actually don't have anything outside of the loop. The output is weird though as well because I go through the insert of the PBC into the FX Loop of my HX Stomp (basically so I can send keys from my computer, through the stomp, to all of my wet pedals if I want). The last thing that is hit by my board before my amp (if I'm using my real amp) is the RJM Out to the HX Stomp FX Return, then out to the amp (from a TA Link box). I'm thinking it'd be best to just have the buffer on for the input and the output of the RJM?
@@VertexEffectsInc Hmmm. I'm confident that if you turn off the wireless receiver (ie input buffer of choice is no longer connected), the guitar pickups "see" no difference in resistance. But I agree that you need an input buffer ready for when (not if) your wireless batteries die, or the receiver gets pounded by interference. And having it doesn't hurt anything.
@@coltonwirgau7723 if you use one of the quality input/output buffers I mentioned you don't risk anything - is the TA an SGI type thing? From the looks of it they seem to have a pedalboard adapted version of it.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah it's the same type thing as an SGI. I have it mounted under some stuff on my board and soldered in an XLR Out on a patch bay that sends out to my amp.
Thank you Mason your knowledge is golden! ... Appreciate u!
My pleasure!
Zvex fuzz factory before buffer correct > highwire? Def going to go with the Mesa through sweetwater when I get some $ to make this happen. I was using 1/2 buffered pedals and 1/2 true bypass thinking 50/50 had me solid. Now I’m really interested to hear the high wire. Carl Martin makes good buffers in there pedals from what pros say. You have any specs on the rate of Carl Martin buffers. It’s really the only brand during the “true bypass” craze I heard people saying hey Carl Martin buffers will change your mind they are such high quality.
Luke Weiler I don’t remember what the composition of that Fuzz, typically when you use a pedal like a Fuzz Face, you would want the buffer come after the fuzz, but again that’s for impedance sensitive varieties - and I don’t know about that Fuzz Factory comparatively. If it is sensitive to low impedance, the solution would be to insert the input buffer following it, and then using the output buffer in the normal position, last in the chain. There should be a pretty easy comparison test to do to see if there’s any sonic difference with the buffer before or after the Fuzz Factory.
Excellent video! Very instuctional, straight on the topic. This video made me a subscriber :) A couple of quick questions:
1) I am using a small pedalboard with an acoustic guitar (Yamaha Silent nylon, to be precise). I am playing at home only, so no long cable runs to the front of house or anything of that sort. My first question is whether anyting you said about buffers correctly loading the guitar pickup applies to piezo pickups in acoustic instruments (whether passive or active piezo)?
2) The first thing my guitar signal hits is Xotic Super Sweet booster. This pedal has a switchable buffer (via a small dip switch inside the enclosure, so not the easiest set up to A/B listening on the fly LOL). Taking into consideration the answer to 1), would you recommend turning it on or off?
Thanks in advance, and keep those excellent instructional videos coming!
Thanks for watching and for the sub! 1) typically if you have some sort of active preamp on your acoustic, most do - you won't need an input buffer since you already have some sort of active circuitry in the guitar. If it's all passive, you may consider one, and you can experiment with the input impedance to match what you like. An ordinary DI might be around 150-200K ohm range to give you an idea, where a typical tube amp might be around 1M (1,000,000 ohms). 2) I don't think it's going to hurt, but that also not a "neutral" buffer. The adjective to describe a buffer as "Sweet" or "Salty" or " Savory" or "Clean" they all translate to a color - buffers should have no essence - they should be 1:1. What comes in, comes out. You might want to check the specs on the that buffer as I think it's no in the 1M input and 100 ohm output range. As I recall the output is around 1K, or 10x worse than the recommended 100 ohms.
Great video! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom. I definitely learned a lot, but I'm still scratching my head on my situation... and not for lack of independent research - it led me here! I really hope you are able to provide some insight. I'm paraphrasing for the sake of the comments section, but will gladly provide more detail if needed.
I have 2 amp rig with a direct pedal chain that ends with an aby amp switcher that has a built in buffer (Radial Twin-City). 1 amp is always on, 2nd amp is used like an overdrive pedal. Using a Friedman board and wanting the convenience of the Buffer Bay 6 for cable management - I have 2 questions.
1. How do you correctly patch an ABY pedal into a pedal board patchbay correctly (buffered or not)?
2. Is running a Radial Twin-City pedal directly into the Friedman Buffer Bay overkill? Hurt my tone?
I hope to hear from you!! If not, thanks again for the great info in the video. You friggin rule!
My understanding of the Friedman buffer was that it was only a single, and I think on the input of the system. If that is true, then you want to have two output buffers one for side “a” and another for side “b”. As I recall, there were still pass-throughs on the interface made by Friedman that would allow you to do this.
Unless the Friedman has a stereo output buffer, I don’t think it does, then there won’t be any redundancy, however I’m very suspicious of the buffer in the Radial unit, typically when there is no public specification on the manufacture’s website, that’s not very good sign of the effectiveness of the line driver or its ability to be able to eliminate capacitance on the output.
Some pedals want to see a true coil despite the capacitance of the connecting lead, and it's a know problem that a buffer interferes, therefore buffers should follow those circuits that need true bypass.
John Cougar This is addressed in the video, and applications where a germanium transistor is used for example. However, using broad generalizations, this is typically not a frequent application, and the majority of rigs will benefit from the input buffer. Furthermore, if you do have an impedance sensitive device, like a Fuzz Face, some of them don’t like driving low output impedance following them, so it definitely is in need of testing but most certainly you will need an output buffer at the end of your chain to drive the long lines back to your amplifier without any loss, if your goal is in fact, to have the most neutral of a sound possible.
Hi mate. I’m using A petty John Lift.
Rather sweet.
Cool...have no idea on the specs.
My current signal path is guitar - TU-2 - Keeley 2 knob compressor - Wah - fuzz - Mf Drive - Red Dirt - Smartgate - amp & a couple delays, Phase 90 in the FX loop. Power supply is a Mondo. Noise gate is rarely used & I may take it off the board & throw it in the PA box for those gigs w/ dirty house power. Primary amp is a slightly modded DSL40. What can I do to improve the signal path as it is?
I’d check out the Empress buffer on Reverb - they’re around $80 used and this will do wonders for you system and you can perhaps use the tuner in the tuner out of the buffer so you don’t have to involve a low quality buffer in the Boss, plus you get the quality line driver in the output buffer of the Empress at the end of the chain. Or you could get a stand alone output buffer and keep your Boss on the input. Something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer could work nicely.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'll look into the Empress, kinda like the TU as a tuner.
@@jbalmer9310 if you use the tuner out to hold your TU-2 it should be an issue.
@@VertexEffectsInc Should or shouldn't?
@@jbalmer9310 if you put the TU-2 in your tuner out on the Empress it will be OK.
NB: I highly recommend the Wampler "Totally Buffed"
;)
Hahahah!
Hey Mason, I'm looking at buying the Mesa double buffer, and just have a quick question. I have a Union Tube & Transistor MORE as the last pedal on my board, on their site Union says "our suggestion however is to put it just before your tube amp or if you are running a series of pedals to put it last in the signal chain." Would you still run this pedal into the out buffer?
Hey mate. Thanx for the video.. Unfortunatelly there were there some not so technical cuestions that had to be answered too. TU-3W has a very sweet tone sweetener buffer... I wish I could put it b4 my MC 404wah and Fuzz face
I've built some nice buffers for piezo equipped fiddles and guitars. And electric guitars as well. I use a JFET and a PNP transistor in a classic self biasing cascade circuit for a high input z (1 to10M) and a low output z (less than 10k). The fiddle would not cooperate with the wah wah. Well it does now. For electric, it drives a long cable nicely. It sounds great to my ears and the design came right off a Fairchild datasheet.
10K output? That’s pretty high for electric guitar. What kind of cable are you driving?
@@VertexEffectsInc , it can drive a decent made cable 20 or so feet. For the fiddle player, it did not drive a cable- it was put inside (before) the wah as an always on circuit. It matched the z between piezo and the wah pedal. The wah wants to see about a 10k pickup from a guitar but was seeing a high z device that wanted a 10M input z. Buffers are kinda specific, this one needed the output to look like a guitar pickup not a piezo.. 1M is pretty standard for electric guitar stuff but many pedals are made with a 500k. Sometimes 500k is ok in a pedal chain, but after a cable of 15 feet? Yup, high end loss.
I use a Polytune 3 at the start and I use 2 Boss pedals . Boss CE2 Chorus and Boss DM2W delay
Unfortunately I have a Holy Grail Reverb at the end of the chain but I like the reverb
Luis Hernandez you’d be served by having an output buffer there! That’s the longest line your entire pedalboard drives in all likelihood - your input buffer is only valuable until you turn a pedal on after it, then it’s benefit is negated from that point forward.
Vertex Effects well
I could change the Holy Grail pedal with a Boss RV 5 . I need a Reverb since my amp doesn’t have it
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq the buffer is unstable as a quality output buffer on the Boss stuff, I wouldn't recommend it.
Vertex Effects I see.
I wish I could send you a pic of my board
There is no room for anymore pedals and my Strymon Zuma is already used up and I’m actually sharing two outputs as it is
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq you can send a link - I'm sure you can double up other pedals.
Hi Mason! Thanks for the very informative and comprehensive buffered video, great job! Yet I have a question for you:
I have Vertex BOOST on my board (last in a signal chain) is this the best place for it or maybe I should use it different way (first in a signal chain) ? I use Mogami 2524 10ft cable from guitar to pedalboard - then 11 all true bypass pedals (except for TC Poly3Tuner with buffer - first pedal) and last is BOOST - then 20ft Mogami 2524 cable to amp.
Should I think about Mesa High-Wire ? But then where to place it - first ?Last ? Or put all pedalboard into it's loop ?
I think this is OK as is. The Vertex Boost has a great output buffers, same one I’d build custom for any buffers I’d make. The input buffer in the Bona Fide isn’t bad, you could upgrade to the single input buffer from Boogie, the Stowaway, but it may not be that different. Assuming you’re using all good soldered connections and good power, this rig should sound great!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thx Mason, I appreciate you always reply to questions. True, my rig sounds really decent, but you always want make sure you're getting the most of it;) That's why I asked you. I think I'll give MesaBoogie Stowaway a try as a input buffer as you suggested (High-Wire is too much?)
Never ending pursuit of great tone.
Skylark Music you won’t need the high wire if you have our boost at the end and the stow away first
@@VertexEffectsInc Thx one more time!
@@KonradSkowronski Yes, anytime!
What about buffer placement when using pedals in your effects loop. Where should the output buffer go? After the last effect pedal in the effects loop and right before the return cable that goes back to the amp?
DTM 1864 we’ve talked about this in a few of the other comments below, however I will reiterate. The same idea holds true as it would with an amplifier without in effects loop. You still need an input buffer first, and in output buffer last. For an effects loop, most of them have a buffered send, so the only place a buffer would really make sense is on the return after the last pedal going back to the amplifier. Something like the Mesa Boogie Clear Link or Suhr Buffer would work there.
Immensely helpful video! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I’m moving away from a multi-effects pedal and I’m building a whole new board. These are the pedals I’m going to be running from first in the chain to last, should I consider getting buffers? These are going to run through an EVH 5153 50w Stealth
Peterson Strobostomp HD
Xotic wah
BOSS SY-1
Ibanez TS-9
EVH Flanger
MXR Phase 95
Strymon TimeLine
Strymon BigSky
Depends what their input and output impedance is. If it's 1M and 100 ohms then you're fine, otherwise you may have to supplement.
Hi. I’m using a gig rig grumpy bot input buffer for my lead tone amp with killer results!! If I wanted to add a separate output buffer I would try the Mesa clear link send/receive options!!
I'd just get the Dual Buffer, Mesa High Wire and replace what you have now, the incremental cost to upgrade isn't much more, and it will be a better line driver and isolate the pickups better that 99.9% of the commercial buffers out there.
Thanks a lot for the video!
Very useful.
Was wondering is a buffer in Peterson Strobostomp HD Tuner is a high quality buffer?
Considering this tuner and would like it to be as a buffer at the beginning of my chain.
Thanks in advance for the answer!
Do the majority of bass amps (solid state, class D) look for the same input impedance as tube guitar amps? or would a bassist be better off utilizing a buffer designed for an impedance that is closer to what bass amps look for? Killer Video!!
The Class D amps can be anything the engineer designed it to be from super low like 10K to 5M or more. The input impedance has nothing to do with it being Class D, analog, or whatever. It is more what it was designed for - if pro audio, the amp (any topology) will most likely be 10K. But since it is line level input, a guitar would not drive it directly, it would need a preamp and that is where the input impedance of the preamp matters whether it is for guitar or bass.
Mason what if you are using a wireless at the front like an Xvive or NUX? You hear all the time that “wireless is active” so one doesn’t need a front end buffer? 1) is this true and 2) what are the specs is it typically 1 mega ohm as you suggest? Thx so much!
The wireless can be your input buffer. You'd have to look up the specs, there are no standards.
Hi Mason, every time I try to put my stand-alone buffer (JHS) in front of everything, the first thing the guitar sees, it makes my signal seem sterile. Sound wise, and feel wise. Mostly I notice this going into my overdrive pedal. However, if I put it at around 2nd or 3rd in the chain it seems to work great and the overdrive pedal reacts to the pickups more naturally, or amp-like. Right now it's guitar --> overdrive --> TC 3rd Dimension chorus --> buffer --> Polytune mini --> then onto 6 more pedals. Ha! I know. A lot of pedals for a jazz guy...
I would suggest trying a higher quality dual buffer system like those I’ve recommended, a low quality buffer will change the tone as you’ve described. You can find the Empress Buffers used in Reverb very reasonably if you wanna try with low risk.
Vertex Effects Thanks Mason. If I was worried about tone loss I might do that. I’ve found that is a really good compromise. I only use an 8’ cable, then two pedals before the buffer and am happy how the pickups intact directly with the OD pedal.
Adam Smale why not just put the buffer at the end then? What’s the first pedal you hit?
Vertex Effects The first pedal I hit is my Dumkudo overdrive -> chorus -> tuner -> Strymon compressor -> POG 2 -> Strymon Lex -> EHX Freeze -> El Capistan -> Blue Sky -> 10’ cable -> amp.
Vertex Effects Oooops, I forgot to mention my Boss FV30L is between the El Capistan and the Blue Sky
Hey Mason, great vid! Have you tried the Visual Sound/Truetone buffers at all? Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
Richard Tyler Osborne I have not dried it yet - but I will talk to Dana their AR guy about it, but you’d still need two presumably because it’s only a single buffer and you’d want one at the start and finish of the pedalboard.
Vertex Effects Thanks for the speedy reply! I actually run a VS XO at the top of the chain and then their clean boost at the very end currently. I like the sound, but I’m curious how they stack up against others 🤓
I guess the best test is an A/B comparison to your guitar directly into an amp using an a/b box. That way you can see the impact presuming all pedals in between these buffers are all true bypass and in bypass mode.
You're a very good teacher Mason.
Glad you think so!
Don't do what I did and think too hard about this, if you like a pedal, use the pedal. My favourite delay is a boss DD3 and I was concerned that it wasn't true bypass but I like it so fuck it
gogajira2 I think that’s totally fair, I would just say that if your goal is to get the most neutral found you would want to have a higher quality buffer driving the line back to your amplifier than what the DD3 provides on its own.
DD3 and Tera Echo are 2 of my main delay pedals. Love my boss digital delays
Luke Weiler that’s cool, just don’t use them as you line drivers back to the amp or on the input of the rig - they don’t do that part well in terms of buffers.
@@VertexEffectsInc how about an always on clean boost right at the end as line driver?
gogajira2 That means nothing, the impedance on the output is the thing that is important, again the ability for pedals to be able to effectively buffer the line without introducing loss or degradation varies greatly from unit to unit.
Great video as always!!
Jack Curtis thanks Jack, I hope we earned your subscription!
@@VertexEffectsInc Of course!
uncle mason, i hve a wireless in the first spot on the pedal board. do i still need an input buffer, or is the guitar isolated enough from the board? i am still using an output buffer, but wondering about the need for an input buffer.
louis cyfer what’s the output buffer? Adding an input buffer after your wireless isn’t a bad thing - especially if it a high quality one like those I’ve mentioned above. This become more important when you have to go corded into the rig and not use your wireless for some reason.
uncle mason, i never go corded. i have had too many bad experiences with bad wiring at places where the ground and hot were wired wrong and had the 110 was in the ground through the chassis of the amp. not a fun experience. the wireless solves that.
@@louiscyfer6944 if you're still going into a pedalboard and amp, how was the wireless solving it?
the 110 is in the guitar strings through the ground. with the wireless it can't get there. with the wireless at the beginning of the chain of the board, the input buffer doesn't make a big difference though, am i correct?
What would you do if you had a complete pedalboard with input and output buffer but occasionally you’d like to add a true bypass reverb pedal? Before or after pedalboard? Or neither?
If you put it before or after the rig, it'll depend on the impedances of the pedal when on and that will determine how much it impacts the tone.
The end of my signal chain is a joyo cab box. It outputs at 470ohms. I use two outputs. One for my powered frfr cab, and one to send to FOH. Should I buffer either of those, or just hit it at the begining of the signal chain?
If you're going balanced out you won't need one.
So I run my passive bass (with an active bass boost preamp that usually sits at 20%) into a Line 6 relay G30 system, which then outputs to my board:
Behringer graphic EQ -> TC SpectraComp -> MXR VBO mini -> Ernie Ball VP jr 25K -> Digidelay -> Aguilar Tone Hammer -> XLR out. I also have a Boss TU-3S out of the tuner output of the VP jr.
What would you change here or where would you add buffers? Should I put a buffer in my bass since I'm wireless?
I don’t think the input buffer will help much, if anything you could put it after your wireless but I doubt you’ll hear much of a difference. On the output, if it’s balanced - you’ll probably not gain much by adding a buffer but you will have some pickup loading from the parallel load with the Tuner Out. Consider using a true bypass tuner in line or using a buffered out of something to isolate the tuner loading.
Vertex Effects thanks! I had no idea that using the tuner out on the volume pedal was a problem until watching this video.
My pleasure! Hope it helps!
technical question ... Does a compressor or an overdrive change impedance, when they're on? So, do they work like a buffer when they're on? (I know that "buffer" is not the right term in this context) ... I hardly never play straight to the amp without using any pedal and I think most of us do neither ...
Do you know of any high quality buffer schematics, or DIY kit, for those of use who like to “roll our own”?
Jack Orman makes one that’s good, you’d need to build two of them. He sells kits in his website, it’s called Muzique as I recall.
What about the on board buffers in the boss es8....?
Liam O’ Callaghan There is certainly better buffers out there, typically I’m not using their output buffers since they’re pretty high output impedance ~1K. The input buffer is 1M and and with the switcher having a pedal on at all times it hasn’t been as problematic as a series pedalboard would be with the same buffer.
The output buffer plus the boost is good enough for me. I'm not too fussy, my rig sounds fine with a good input buffer (I don't use that on the ES-8) that does indeed colour my tone - ever so slightly. In a way that pleases my ear.
Ain't broke, don't fix.
None of that negates what Vertex has said here. It's just me.
@@VertexEffectsInc Have you noticed any variance with regards to output levels from 1&2 on the ES-8? I haven't - yet. I'm somewhat worried, as it seems to be a common issue. Roland won't hear about it, they deny the issue altogether.
There is a level compensation or boost internally that you can adjust if you’re finding this.
Great video, Mason! I am a bassist and have a board with 6 pedals (Peterson Strobostomp HD -> Source Audio C4 -> 3Leaf Proton -> MXR Bass Octave Deluxe -> Darkglass X7 -> Darkglass VMT) going into a Noble DI. Even with the tuner in buffered mode, I notice a tonal shift going through the board vs going straight into the Noble. Through the board, the tone is slightly brittle in the upper mids and the lows don't bloom as well. I am going to buy the Mesa High Wire to alleviate the problem. Do you recommend running the output of the High Wire into the Noble or vice versa? IE should the High Wire be last in the chain or the Noble DI? (fyi I am not running long cables anywhere... this is for recording).
Thank you!!!
What if you’re using a w/d/w rig? You use a HQ buffer on the input. How do you address the stereo outs? Buffer after each output of the last stereo f/x before it heads off to the wet amps? Very informative video...thank you, Mason!
Input buffer, dry output buffer. Typically guys won’t buffer the line level input to the wet effects or the output of the wet effects to the power amp if it’s all racked since it’s so close and often low impedance or balanced on some cases on the output.
I finally watched this after you suggested doing so in another q&a. I am looking for your recommendation of the public available buffer circuit designs that I could DIY on some strip board. I already diy'd a popular simple JFET buffer but as you pointed out in this video, it's one of the ones that's not neutral. This is going to be a pedalboard input buffer and installed inside a self modded true bypass tuner to be my buffer. I assume some kind of IC buffer but I'm not sure which one...
You mentioned the Highwire buffer, but what about Mesa's Stowaway buffer? Also, will a pair of Stowaway buffers be good for the output buffers in a stereo rig?
John Kelley Brown Basically it’s just one side of the High Wire. If you want to go stereo, I’d recommend getting the high wire and then another output buffer that has an isolation transformer, something like the Suhr buffer.
Thanks, a good discussion. I'm using a origin Effects compressor as my first pedal. that talks of "conditioning" the signal (certainly no sound passes when there's no power), and then I have Cusack More Louder as my last pedal. That has a buffer on/off toggle. What I found interesting is your comment re a tuner o=in the tuner out of a EB volume pedal. I've never used that out having heard for ever it "sucks" etc. However recently I tried it with my TC tuner (i.e. audio signal goes through the volume pedal AND I have a tuner in the tuner out) and I detected no impact whether i plug it in/unplug it. Is this maybe because the OE compressor (or the buffer in it) is doing its job??
Duncan Wylie hard to say on how effective the compressor is as a line driver - they don’t publish the output impedance on their website nor input impedance. Seems like it’s true bypass, but maybe the relay needs power for the true bypass if it doesn’t pass signal. Ideally you’d want to have the buffer inside the volume pedal and split it out to the tuner out from there. If the tuner is true bypass it’ll do less impact than in the tuner out.
@@VertexEffectsInc A second thought on this... I've always heard/thought a buffered pedal will be muted with no power plugged in, and that this was a way to check. Hence my comment that the OE compressor was/might be buffered. But (1) you might be right that this is just because it has a soft switch type system/activation and (2) I have pedals like the Durham Sex Drive that says it's buffered but passes signal just fine with the power cable removed. So I'm very confused.
Duncan Wylie it’s a good rule of thumb but not an absolute, re: true bypass
JHS says there is no “good” or “better sounding” buffer. A buffer is a buffer. Thoughts?
Andrew Murguia that statement would be inaccurate. Quality of buffers on the market, build in or stand alone, is overwhelmingly low - very few actually reproduce the input signal identically on the output of the buffer. There is certainly an industrywide misunderstanding around what buffers actually do, some of it has to do with not understanding the physics or some of it has to do with not designing for pedalboard and rack systems specifically and not understanding the nuances of those contexts. Many designers, unfortunately design in a vacuum, and are looking at the practical side based on tens of thousands of hours building pedalboards.
Would you recommend the Trutone pure tone buffer as an input and output buffer? I’m planning on buying 2, but want to consult the doctor first!
Yes, I think that they’re a great budget by for a high-quality Buffer
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks doc!
Have you tried the Earthquaker devices swiss things? It has an input/output buffer and i thinks its actually designed by empress.
I’m not seeing anything about Swiss Things being designed by Empress. Btw, what a bummer to see that the Empress stereo buffer was discontinued. The Swiss Things doesn’t handle stereo effects :/
I'm aware of it. It's got a 1K output impedance, about 10x higher than ideal from a buffer standpoint.
Great vid! super informative. Do you have an opinion on the Boss Waza buffer vs the normal jfet Boss buffer? I know neither are ideal for driving long lengths, but have you found Waza's impact to be lesser in affecting tone than the standard (assuming I have a really good input and output buffer)? Thanks!
They're really not that different - they raised the input impedance on some to 1M which is good, but the output impedance is still 1K on them which is too high. I suspect they must have improved the parts used, maybe to models with a lower noise floor and tighter tolerances, but on paper, they look very similar to how they often do. And remember, most of these Boss pedals can have multiple buffers inside them, so using one Boss pedals is like having 2-3 buffers in series in many cases.
Curious about buffers and fuzz pedals. Fuzzes generally like to be very first in line when it comes to guitar signal chains, right? Would you put a fuzz before or after a highwire/EUNA? What about a setup with both fuzz and wah? Thanks for all the insight!
Thanks for watching Scott. I think the Euna has a loop that is meant for fuzzes so it doesnt affect the tone .