Thanks for that Jay. I think I will be sticking with my 225s for now. Since changing from JPX forged to the 225 two years ago, my game has just got stronger. I think a lot of that was down to the fact that the JPX head was reasonably long and I didn't need to concentrate very hard to hit it reasonably. With the 225 (it would be the same with 245) which has a shorter face, I had to concentrate more and it means I now find the middle much more often and off-centre isn't normally too far away. I believe these clubs made me a better golfer because I had to think more. However as age takes its toll I struggle to get my 7 iron swing speed much above mid 80's on a good day so the extra distance and help these clubs give is much appreciated and helps me a lot. The goal for this year is to break 80 regularly.
Absolutely, personally I wouldn't be in a massive rush to upgrade straight away, how ever if you are coming from an earlier version or earlier irons then the 245 gives a good upgrade model for model, much more than most. 241 vs 221 little difference, 243 vs 223 little difference, 245 vs 225 in evolution terms quite a good shift 👍🏻
Don’t see any design changes in the 223 that would affect forgiveness. Mostly just refinement of lofts and the speed slot in the longer irons to give more control.
Great content as always Jay! I'm a 225 guy and I new this 245 would be more forgiving. Looks like I will have to hit the middle more that's all because essentially it's the same club. Love my 225s and I'm not changing a thing ...... Thanks again for the video!
Thanks for the early review. I’m the guy you’re talking about - too fast for the lofts of these but I’m still a mid handicap. Do you have any suggestion on a forgiving iron with more traditional lofts? 🙏 (I suppose though, Luke Donald has a full bag of 245s weakened 4 degrees - that’s an option).
This is a great test but a little too complicated for a newbie like me. I can buy a 2nd hand set of 225 irons (4 to P and S wedge) and a mizuno golf bag at USD 500. That’s very much a bargain and it’s still suitable enough for a newbie?
I ordered 4-GW, but I wonder if I’m going to have to weaken these and drop the GW. I’m gonna need a fair amount of testing time to get the gapping right as the 7iron was carrying 210 yards. That’s a little silly. That’s 5 past my stock MP-5 6 iron. The forgiveness of these makes me okay with putting in the work on the gapping
Yep, great job, as always. I'm sure you have a lot of other comparisons in the works, but here are a few other 245 vs. videos I'd love to see the 245 compared against: JPX923 Forged, new TM P790, Cobra Forged Tec, Titleist T150. Thanks!
@AskGolfNut Would you recommend the 245s over the apex pros for someone who wants a bit more forgiving iron? They both looked good in the reviews so it’s hard to make a choice. Looking to get a new set soon. Love the reviews! Thanks for the in depth forgiveness tests
Hi Jay. I narrowed my choice of irons for my fitting on Toptracer (and feel) down to t200, 245 and jpx forged. Jpx won hands down on lower launch (I’m a bit steep) and higher spin, as in 2 degrees lower launch and up to 1000 rpm higher spin. Does that make sense? By the way I’m happy with my choice 😊
Really well done as you normally do! I’m a 9 HC and healthy 55 yo. Using the MP-20 HMB from 4+ years ago. Love the feel and like the look too. What advantages would I gain if I moved to the 245. Current club head speed with driver is approx 102
Great video! Seeing them side by side and comparing the numbers shows how consistently Mizuno implement performance into their clubs without making drastic changes. Do you think this extra forgiveness allows for any easier transition from a JPX? The reason I ask is I loved the feel of the 225 but felt I like I needed the forgiveness of the hot metal pro so wondering if this could help get me over the line and move to a 245?
Interesting to see these compared. I must try and get a go with a set of 245s. I’m at a meeting that will go on longer than it needs to tonight 💤 so will miss tonight’s live presentation.
Really nice review. Interesting to see similar off-center strikes compared, which holds a lot more information that just an average of a bunch of shots. As an old dude who now only swings a 7 iron at about 73 mph, with ball speed of about 101, and with 140 carry, do you think these 245's are something I should avoid? If so, what would you suggest as good alternatives?
Good video and interesting comparison. I also saw the 2nd Swing Golf video and their results were opposite: the 245 got more spin and almost 4 yards less carry.
Did they give detailed club head data to show where the difference was from? I'd like to be able to compare my detailed club head data to theirs? 👍🏻 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut They didn't give any reason why they got more spin out of the 245, only that it did get more spin. ua-cam.com/video/mo-poBi466M/v-deo.html
Hmmm..... my experience is that if someone says something and doesn't back it up with data that they can show on camera to verify it...... I wouldn't necessarily listen too much to it as you never know what motives they have to say what they are 👍 This is why I give all my data with detailed club head data as it provides a totally unbiased capture of the data. If I say something without proving it by showing the club head data, I could be saying anything for any reason 👍
Just saw the video quickly, no dynamic loft and strike especially not measured or not shown. Those 2 alone could make more of the difference that the relatively small spin difference 👍
Just wondering if you could also share the shaft specs or any adjustment you did to your benchmarker setup in the description? I know you said in the video you were using DynamicGold 100 Mid
Luckily I'm not at all shaft sensitive so it doesn't matter what shafts I have in the media samples. So any differences seen are from the head. Only a very few percent of golfers are not shaft sensitive (it's due to how they transition from back swing go downswing) so for the vast majority of golfers getting properly custom fit for shaft and head combo is essential to getting the most out of their purchase 👍🏻
Jay, I was looking at another review (2nd Swing). One data point that seems to be very different from your findings is the spin. Where you are finding a reduction in spin going to the 243/245 they are finding an increase. Any thoughts? Hope the hip is improving...feel for you...been there and I had to have both of mine replaced
Hi Angelo, I've heard about the 2nd Swing findings and have looked at the data they have shown. Unfortunately it is missing two critical pieces of data which would absolutely determine any differences (Dynamic Loft and Strike location). I've given and shown every possible data point, but unless I see those from the 2nd Swing test, effectively I'll only be guessing 👍🏻 This is why I give my club data in full detail. 👍🏻 Another difference may well be the ball used also 👍🏻
I bought the 225s based on some enthusiastic online reviews, and I loved the looks. But I hated the feel. Went back to my MP blades before ultimately switching to Titleist T series.
Recommendations on a weak lofted iron with as much protection/forgiveness as possible with least offset? Currently gaming 921 tours since 21…not playing as much now and I’m looking for some more protection across the face. 921 tours are amazing but you must strike them middle. I love the launch and spin they give me and the feel. Best iron I’ve ever played, but I used to play 5 days a week…now I’m lucky to play a few times a month. I was considering these 245s, the T150s, or actually the Takomo 101T’s…love the look of these 245s and the takomos…I think they are 2 degrees stronger than my 921 tours. Please recommend and why and if you could do comparison videos would be great. Looking for same high launch and spin but with more forgiveness. Maybe the 923 hotmetal pro High launch?
To add onto this, are there downsides to using an iron like the 245 for its mix of forgiveness and playability/control, but weakening it ~2 degrees across the board to increase spin and decrease carry slightly? Would this allow it to better fit higher swing speed players that still need forgiveness due to inconsistent striking? I know this will increase the bounce of the clubs by 2 degrees as well and slightly reduce offset/close the face, but Im wondering your opinions on this? I have a very high swing speed but still don't strike irons consistently, I gravitate toward traditional lofts for better carry, ball flight and spin numbers but I don't get the forgiveness I need from players cavity or bladed irons, there seems to be limited options for a middle ground. I know the stronger lofts are usually meant to offset ball height and spin increases due to the added lower weight in forgiving irons, but this just adds carry as well that might not be desireable.
Same…I typically can’t play strong lofts. I deport a little so I take loft off at impact and if I play strong lofts….spin is way too low and ball flight too low
I hear your specific concerns and the dearth of forgiving irons with little offset. But I think there are a few that could sort of fit the bill. Look at the technical specs of the Ping I230 and similar from Titleist T-series and tell me what you think?
I'm not a huge TM guy but the 770 is a hollow bodied iron throughout the set and has a 33⁰ 7 iron and a 46⁰ pw, which is as traditional as it gets now w/o going to a blade. The 24 apex pro is close too. I'm in the same boat. High ss but looking for forgiveness.
@@adambarnes4191 @zazhou Awesome, Ill give the Ping i230, P770, Titelist T150 and Apex 24 pros another look. Maybe they are that middle players Iron I'm looking for, added forgiveness from a players cavity but not so much more that a huge delofting is needed to correct ball flight and spin
Another good review. I am definitely looking forward to 243 vs 223 as I sense from your reviews, 243 should show even more improvement in forgiveness. Jay I mentioned in a couple of my previous comments that I was hoping you had some experience with Honma TR20P to draw some comparisons to the Pro 243. Any feedback? I won't be able to do this myself for at least a couple of months.
Hi sorry the comment sections have gone rather mental of late. I haven't tested the Honma irons in question but they do make some of the best clubs in the business. There will sure be differences between them but without testing I'd only be guessing 😊👍🏻
Not overly, the lofts are within a degree or so and with the upgraded tungsten the 245 and others like it are a great stepping stone or bridging iron for the golfer wanting to progress into more of a players setup 👍
@@AskGolfNutHow would you compare these to ping i230 in terms of forgiveness, distance etc? I’m looking into going to a players setup and I’m torn between the i230 and now mizuno 245. Thanks for the videos.
Does it really matter about stronger lofted though? It just means you hit whatever club you hit. It's not like you are forced to hit a 7 iron when everyone else does. As long as you are smart and keep your gapping with your other clubs proper having the extra distance should be advantage. And even better, you could swing easy (maximizing control) and still get the distance than whatever your old 7 iron was going swinging full out. I pre-ordered these sight unseen. Always a mizuno fan.
Agree with you totally. It is a more accurate perspective to train your mind to say/think/believe this is a 28° or 29° iron and forget what number shows on the bottom of the club. An even better perspective is this is my 170 yard club, irrespective of both loft and iron number.
The problem arises when you get into higher lofts. The 245 gap is at 48. That means you need a third wedge at 52? But the odds are that you will need to strengthen it because the 245 face will be hotter. So take a 52 to 51 or a 50 to 51. Then you still need a 54/56 and maybe a 60. That's 5 wedges. Heck, you could even use a 245 gap at 48 and then use a 243 gap at 51 before going to traditional wedges for the 55 and 60. It's not a major problem if you put some time into gapping but for many its not ideal.
@@adambarnes4191 I've got a 51. I'm going to have to get on a launch monitor because I need to see how much gap between 48 degree gw and 51. My current theory is that the 48 should go to 47, but with the hotter face on the 245 not sure.
@@adambarnes4191 I don't see this as a problem. I have 4-PW in more traditionally lofted irons (48 deg. PW). I also have three wedges (52, 56, 60). If I get the 245s, I'll just order 5-GW. The lofts are now spaced out the same as my old set of irons. The numbers on the clubs are different, but I don't actually need more irons to fill up my yardage gaps.
I’m considering ordering these 2 degrees weak but wonder how it would play with the 2 degrees extra bounce that would cause. Given its performance with low strikes it might be okay.
Adding an additional 2 degrees of bounce won't do anything to it's playability whatsoever. I believe Luke Donald plays the 245s at maximum degrees weak which is wisher 3 or 4 degrees. Mizuno aren't a larger bounce manufacturer like say Ping for example so weakening is usually a non issue 👍🏻
Its definitely a higher fighting shaft compared to DGs other more generalised lower penetrating flight shaft options. They aren't necessarily designed to reduce distance, in fact they are designed to add distance to golfers that would actually gain from higher launch and spin 👍🏻
Your opinion please, I am 62 yrs , 7 iron speed of 84.5, currently playing mizuno MP20 HMB , KBS TOUR,c-taper lite, 110, stiff, do you think I would notice a difference? 15HDCP, Thank you , Tom K
Yes Sir.. my 2€ents to anyone our age(s), I’m 65.5 yrs. Is to lighten up on your new graphite shaft weight. (80/90g.) You’ll gain swing speed & add better distance across the board. Move to Pgh,PA and I’ll loan you many different sets. #LoL 😅
Under normal circumstances I'd say not to bother, but the 245s are a significant update in forgiveness (marginal in raw performance) so is absolutely say its worth upgrading should funds not be a issue. Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍🏻
They are Forged as such but with the hollow bodied design and tungsten lump in the bottom, no one can say they feel the same as the full on 241 solid forging. Really the only way to compare the feel of the 245s is to compare them against all other hollow bodied designs and in this they are one of if not the softest feeling hollow body club out there 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut thanks. I ran out of time to compare them. I hit the 243’s but could compare the two. I did hit zx7, t150 and they weren’t even close to the 243’s in anyway shape or form.
Another great review Jay. I think that the 245 irons would be great for a 9 handicaper and a slightly slower swing speed, cause the lofts are what matter and not the number on the iron..My Hogan 7 iron is a 34 so the Mizuno 245 at 30 would be a 6 in my Hogans..But with more forgiveness.....Thanks...
@@AskGolfNut I commented using my phone account this morning within a couple minutes of when the video was published. Was the 1st or 2nd comment if I remember. Does not show up when I view the video on my laptop.
I'll look on the 'Held for Review' section to see if UA-cam has flagged it for any reason. I very rarely delete comments and the only time I do is for people that are just being idiotic or rude or comments that are in no way constructive to anyone. Luckily I have a fairly well behaving viewership so again only rarely find myself needing to police the comment section 👍🏻
You said the 245 launches higher but spins less but the variance between them is smaller than the standard deviation making that conclusion statistically incorrect. Statistically there is no difference between them…
Normally I would absolutely agree but this difference is apparent from multiple resumed sessions and a huge data set. The results keep repeating themselves. The variance is small, it will be small due to really only a CG location change, but its a consistent one and it continues to repeat always going the same way in its results 🤷 if it was true statistical blurring then the results would move around randomly, yet the 245 always repeats the difference over the 225. The SD is more so a measure of me being human and not a robot 👍🏻👍🏻
Awesome video. So if mizuno nearly doubles it tungsten in their next iteration of the hollow body model that’ll will/should outperform the 245. This is one of the reasons why I’m super happy with my 2021 Titleist T100S. I believe it has 70-90 grams of tungsten in them. They’re super forgiving with great forged feel.
He did, but what's not commonly known is that he apparently went a whole 4 degrees weak with them to match the traditional lofts of the 241s. Mizuno retail custom fit only go 3 degrees in loft adjustment 👍🏻
In all purchases depending on the quality of the fitting, only time will tell. But there is no reason to see why the 245s won't be a great choice. A few haven't found them to be all they hoped but the majority of those after discussing came down to a terrible fitting experience. You may depending on swing speed, determine that weakening the lofts a touch to either blend them into the wedges a litte smoother or reduce the distance gapping between clubs, but that's very much to fine tuning 👍🏻
I've just done a fitting session at my local golf store. Interestingly that to achieve the same results to that of Mizuno 225 (Project X 5.5 115g shaft) the fitter recommends me 95g DG S200 shaft. I did feel a bit of fatigue if I go with 115g for MP245 heads. Wondering if anyone has similar experience... or is it just my body who get confused with new club head...?
Interesting comment. The two shafts are quite different in bend profile so assuming this change didn't come from the Swing DNA Analyser? If it was then one or both has been interrupted wrong as they are quite different. The 225 and 245 as close enough in dimensions for a human to blind test them even with the use of a little black tape on the top line disguising both. This way you could actually test both in both shafts not knowing which head is which. I've done this many time in the past with clients that subconsciously manipulate their delivery of the club when they 'know' which head they are using. Give it a test (also re do the Swing DNA as I'm in very much doubt that one or both of the choices are correct) and see how you do with pure blind numbers 👍🏻 Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍🏻
just an observation. a lot of times when showing thin shots for example. your efficiency looks great still. 1.33 lets say. yet your club speed is down by 8mph. just questioning the numbers really. why does it seem to be a pattern that the data shows lower club speed on mishits. not questioning you but i am questioning the hardware/software. i would trust the efficiency more if it showed same club speed ever. ive seen a few videos with this pattern.
Commonly when doing that side of the data capture when swinging at slower swing speed I am not as consistent as at my normal speed so here and there I strike it wrong. This is ideal for the forgiveness side of things. For the others, when I have done all the different speed testing and I haven't captured all the mishit data I then capture it at my normal speed as its easier for me to purposely miss hit shots and keep delivery the same at my normal speed. That's why sometimes you see a changing speed 👍🏻 as club head speed has absolutely no effect on miss hit efficiency, I use the opportunity of miss hits whenever I can to use in the data. It takes sooooo long for me to collect this info I will take any help I can get 😊
So ..I’ve gotta ask. How do you swing~weight these heavy 245 tungsten heads, w’ 50g of extra weight (?) Did they have other same weight up higher in the 225(?)
Normally they'd want to keep the head weights fairly similar. They can change marginally but then not without having to do some pretty interesting work like the Cleveland XLs do with Counterbalancing. So in these cases it's a further hollowing out of the head removing all non structural mass and placing tungsten in strategic locations for optimising CG etc 👍🏻
HaHa.. nice disclaimer at the end - reminding most of Us, that other than some crazy forgiveness for poor striking golfers. There might not be much reason to upGrade from 225’s. In fact (IMO) - I heard, if you’re a 12HDI’cap or better. Keep your 225’s and maybe 🤔 even add a degree o’Loft:) Signed: Trying to read between the lines 🙌😼🏌️♂️
I love my fitted 225’s. On our difficult home course we have 5 par 3’s. The other day I had 3 birds, 2 pars and the pars were inches of going in for birds. Oh I’m not changing these babies..🏌️♂️🏌️♂️
Would love to see the 245 compared to the new T200
Thanks for that Jay. I think I will be sticking with my 225s for now. Since changing from JPX forged to the 225 two years ago, my game has just got stronger. I think a lot of that was down to the fact that the JPX head was reasonably long and I didn't need to concentrate very hard to hit it reasonably. With the 225 (it would be the same with 245) which has a shorter face, I had to concentrate more and it means I now find the middle much more often and off-centre isn't normally too far away. I believe these clubs made me a better golfer because I had to think more. However as age takes its toll I struggle to get my 7 iron swing speed much above mid 80's on a good day so the extra distance and help these clubs give is much appreciated and helps me a lot. The goal for this year is to break 80 regularly.
As always, I appreciate the amazing clear and concise data....final answer, save my money and stick with the 225's for now.
Absolutely, personally I wouldn't be in a massive rush to upgrade straight away, how ever if you are coming from an earlier version or earlier irons then the 245 gives a good upgrade model for model, much more than most. 241 vs 221 little difference, 243 vs 223 little difference, 245 vs 225 in evolution terms quite a good shift 👍🏻
Great video. The improvements in forgiveness with the 245 have me hopeful for the 243 improvements over the 223.
Don’t see any design changes in the 223 that would affect forgiveness. Mostly just refinement of lofts and the speed slot in the longer irons to give more control.
Great content as always Jay! I'm a 225 guy and I new this 245 would be more forgiving. Looks like I will have to hit the middle more that's all because essentially it's the same club. Love my 225s and I'm not changing a thing ...... Thanks again for the video!
Thanks for the early review. I’m the guy you’re talking about - too fast for the lofts of these but I’m still a mid handicap. Do you have any suggestion on a forgiving iron with more traditional lofts? 🙏 (I suppose though, Luke Donald has a full bag of 245s weakened 4 degrees - that’s an option).
This is a great test but a little too complicated for a newbie like me. I can buy a 2nd hand set of 225 irons (4 to P and S wedge) and a mizuno golf bag at USD 500. That’s very much a bargain and it’s still suitable enough for a newbie?
I ordered 4-GW, but I wonder if I’m going to have to weaken these and drop the GW. I’m gonna need a fair amount of testing time to get the gapping right as the 7iron was carrying 210 yards. That’s a little silly. That’s 5 past my stock MP-5 6 iron. The forgiveness of these makes me okay with putting in the work on the gapping
Thoughts on the 245 vs the titleist t150? Especially in terms of forgiveness? I believe the t150 has a lot more tungsten.
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! 👍😁 thank you
245 wins for me without question...225 wasn't available in LH. Was very happy to see they made 245 available in LH!
Well.. dah 😢 There’s no 225 for you LEFTY 🫣🙈 Okay ..We can let that go
This is the one we’ve been waiting for!
Hey Jay, awesome video as usual! Could you please review the new Callaway Paradym Ai SMOKE irons next?
Hi Kenny, making my way through the videos, currently doing the Qi stuff then hopefully I'll be on the Smoke 👍🏻
How would you rate the 245 compared to JPX923 Forged? although smaller, does the head tech make it more forgiving than the larger forged club?
That comparison is coming soon 👍🏻
Thanks for the great content. Would love to see 245 vs T150, especially at the same loft, as well as 245 4iron vs Fli-Hi 4iron.
Can’t wait for the comparisons vs P790, T200 and even 923 HM Pro, my current iron.
Been waiting for this one!
Yep, great job, as always. I'm sure you have a lot of other comparisons in the works, but here are a few other 245 vs. videos I'd love to see the 245 compared against: JPX923 Forged, new TM P790, Cobra Forged Tec, Titleist T150. Thanks!
@AskGolfNut
Would you recommend the 245s over the apex pros for someone who wants a bit more forgiving iron? They both looked good in the reviews so it’s hard to make a choice. Looking to get a new set soon.
Love the reviews! Thanks for the in depth forgiveness tests
I play the taylor made speedblades cavity back irons. Will any of the new clubs like p790, callaway apex or mizuno 225/245 be any different?
Hi Jay. I narrowed my choice of irons for my fitting on Toptracer (and feel) down to t200, 245 and jpx forged. Jpx won hands down on lower launch (I’m a bit steep) and higher spin, as in 2 degrees lower launch and up to 1000 rpm higher spin. Does that make sense? By the way I’m happy with my choice 😊
Really well done as you normally do! I’m a 9 HC and healthy 55 yo. Using the MP-20 HMB from 4+ years ago. Love the feel and like the look too. What advantages would I gain if I moved to the 245. Current club head speed with driver is approx 102
Great video! Seeing them side by side and comparing the numbers shows how consistently Mizuno implement performance into their clubs without making drastic changes. Do you think this extra forgiveness allows for any easier transition from a JPX? The reason I ask is I loved the feel of the 225 but felt I like I needed the forgiveness of the hot metal pro so wondering if this could help get me over the line and move to a 245?
Interesting to see these compared. I must try and get a go with a set of 245s.
I’m at a meeting that will go on longer than it needs to tonight 💤 so will miss tonight’s live presentation.
You'll be missed as always if you can't be there, its all about Taylormade Qi irons and driver tonight so you may or may not want to watch it 😀
@@AskGolfNutTaylormade? It’s times like these I’m glad I’m stuck in a boring meeting 😂
Really nice review. Interesting to see similar off-center strikes compared, which holds a lot more information that just an average of a bunch of shots. As an old dude who now only swings a 7 iron at about 73 mph, with ball speed of about 101, and with 140 carry, do you think these 245's are something I should avoid? If so, what would you suggest as good alternatives?
Good video and interesting comparison. I also saw the 2nd Swing Golf video and their results were opposite: the 245 got more spin and almost 4 yards less carry.
Did they give detailed club head data to show where the difference was from? I'd like to be able to compare my detailed club head data to theirs? 👍🏻 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut They didn't give any reason why they got more spin out of the 245, only that it did get more spin.
ua-cam.com/video/mo-poBi466M/v-deo.html
Hmmm..... my experience is that if someone says something and doesn't back it up with data that they can show on camera to verify it...... I wouldn't necessarily listen too much to it as you never know what motives they have to say what they are 👍
This is why I give all my data with detailed club head data as it provides a totally unbiased capture of the data. If I say something without proving it by showing the club head data, I could be saying anything for any reason 👍
Just saw the video quickly, no dynamic loft and strike especially not measured or not shown. Those 2 alone could make more of the difference that the relatively small spin difference 👍
Just wondering if you could also share the shaft specs or any adjustment you did to your benchmarker setup in the description?
I know you said in the video you were using DynamicGold 100 Mid
Luckily I'm not at all shaft sensitive so it doesn't matter what shafts I have in the media samples. So any differences seen are from the head.
Only a very few percent of golfers are not shaft sensitive (it's due to how they transition from back swing go downswing) so for the vast majority of golfers getting properly custom fit for shaft and head combo is essential to getting the most out of their purchase 👍🏻
Would like to see 245 vs P790
It's on the list 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut I can’t wait
Jay, I was looking at another review (2nd Swing). One data point that seems to be very different from your findings is the spin. Where you are finding a reduction in spin going to the 243/245 they are finding an increase. Any thoughts? Hope the hip is improving...feel for you...been there and I had to have both of mine replaced
Hi Angelo, I've heard about the 2nd Swing findings and have looked at the data they have shown. Unfortunately it is missing two critical pieces of data which would absolutely determine any differences (Dynamic Loft and Strike location). I've given and shown every possible data point, but unless I see those from the 2nd Swing test, effectively I'll only be guessing 👍🏻
This is why I give my club data in full detail. 👍🏻 Another difference may well be the ball used also 👍🏻
I bought the 225s based on some enthusiastic online reviews, and I loved the looks. But I hated the feel. Went back to my MP blades before ultimately switching to Titleist T series.
Recommendations on a weak lofted iron with as much protection/forgiveness as possible with least offset? Currently gaming 921 tours since 21…not playing as much now and I’m looking for some more protection across the face. 921 tours are amazing but you must strike them middle. I love the launch and spin they give me and the feel. Best iron I’ve ever played, but I used to play 5 days a week…now I’m lucky to play a few times a month. I was considering these 245s, the T150s, or actually the Takomo 101T’s…love the look of these 245s and the takomos…I think they are 2 degrees stronger than my 921 tours. Please recommend and why and if you could do comparison videos would be great. Looking for same high launch and spin but with more forgiveness. Maybe the 923 hotmetal pro High launch?
To add onto this, are there downsides to using an iron like the 245 for its mix of forgiveness and playability/control, but weakening it ~2 degrees across the board to increase spin and decrease carry slightly? Would this allow it to better fit higher swing speed players that still need forgiveness due to inconsistent striking? I know this will increase the bounce of the clubs by 2 degrees as well and slightly reduce offset/close the face, but Im wondering your opinions on this?
I have a very high swing speed but still don't strike irons consistently, I gravitate toward traditional lofts for better carry, ball flight and spin numbers but I don't get the forgiveness I need from players cavity or bladed irons, there seems to be limited options for a middle ground. I know the stronger lofts are usually meant to offset ball height and spin increases due to the added lower weight in forgiving irons, but this just adds carry as well that might not be desireable.
Same…I typically can’t play strong lofts. I deport a little so I take loft off at impact and if I play strong lofts….spin is way too low and ball flight too low
I hear your specific concerns and the dearth of forgiving irons with little offset. But I think there are a few that could sort of fit the bill. Look at the technical specs of the Ping I230 and similar from Titleist T-series and tell me what you think?
I'm not a huge TM guy but the 770 is a hollow bodied iron throughout the set and has a 33⁰ 7 iron and a 46⁰ pw, which is as traditional as it gets now w/o going to a blade. The 24 apex pro is close too. I'm in the same boat. High ss but looking for forgiveness.
@@adambarnes4191 @zazhou Awesome, Ill give the Ping i230, P770, Titelist T150 and Apex 24 pros another look. Maybe they are that middle players Iron I'm looking for, added forgiveness from a players cavity but not so much more that a huge delofting is needed to correct ball flight and spin
So with lower speed of 79 , what mizuno club do you recommend for a 59 year old mid handicapper?
Another good review. I am definitely looking forward to 243 vs 223 as I sense from your reviews, 243 should show even more improvement in forgiveness. Jay I mentioned in a couple of my previous comments that I was hoping you had some experience with Honma TR20P to draw some comparisons to the Pro 243. Any feedback? I won't be able to do this myself for at least a couple of months.
Hi sorry the comment sections have gone rather mental of late.
I haven't tested the Honma irons in question but they do make some of the best clubs in the business. There will sure be differences between them but without testing I'd only be guessing 😊👍🏻
@AskGolfNut
Thanks, just the same. I didn't think you had, but tried.
Could you blend the 245 and 241 at the 5 to 6 iron, or are they too different in speed, size, spin, etc. even with loft bending?
Your video’s are very well done. Would moving to these irons from a Ping 430 iron be to penal in terms of distance and forgiveness?
Not overly, the lofts are within a degree or so and with the upgraded tungsten the 245 and others like it are a great stepping stone or bridging iron for the golfer wanting to progress into more of a players setup 👍
@@AskGolfNutHow would you compare these to ping i230 in terms of forgiveness, distance etc? I’m looking into going to a players setup and I’m torn between the i230 and now mizuno 245. Thanks for the videos.
Does it really matter about stronger lofted though? It just means you hit whatever club you hit. It's not like you are forced to hit a 7 iron when everyone else does. As long as you are smart and keep your gapping with your other clubs proper having the extra distance should be advantage. And even better, you could swing easy (maximizing control) and still get the distance than whatever your old 7 iron was going swinging full out. I pre-ordered these sight unseen. Always a mizuno fan.
Agree with you totally. It is a more accurate perspective to train your mind to say/think/believe this is a 28° or 29° iron and forget what number shows on the bottom of the club. An even better perspective is this is my 170 yard club, irrespective of both loft and iron number.
Good gapping is a different issue. Modern day irons tend to have (too) big gaps from 8i to gap wedge.
The problem arises when you get into higher lofts. The 245 gap is at 48. That means you need a third wedge at 52? But the odds are that you will need to strengthen it because the 245 face will be hotter. So take a 52 to 51 or a 50 to 51. Then you still need a 54/56 and maybe a 60. That's 5 wedges.
Heck, you could even use a 245 gap at 48 and then use a 243 gap at 51 before going to traditional wedges for the 55 and 60. It's not a major problem if you put some time into gapping but for many its not ideal.
@@adambarnes4191 I've got a 51. I'm going to have to get on a launch monitor because I need to see how much gap between 48 degree gw and 51. My current theory is that the 48 should go to 47, but with the hotter face on the 245 not sure.
@@adambarnes4191 I don't see this as a problem. I have 4-PW in more traditionally lofted irons (48 deg. PW). I also have three wedges (52, 56, 60). If I get the 245s, I'll just order 5-GW. The lofts are now spaced out the same as my old set of irons. The numbers on the clubs are different, but I don't actually need more irons to fill up my yardage gaps.
I’m considering ordering these 2 degrees weak but wonder how it would play with the 2 degrees extra bounce that would cause. Given its performance with low strikes it might be okay.
Adding an additional 2 degrees of bounce won't do anything to it's playability whatsoever. I believe Luke Donald plays the 245s at maximum degrees weak which is wisher 3 or 4 degrees. Mizuno aren't a larger bounce manufacturer like say Ping for example so weakening is usually a non issue 👍🏻
Does the Dynamic Gold Mid 100 promote more height and increase in decent angle = less distance?
Its definitely a higher fighting shaft compared to DGs other more generalised lower penetrating flight shaft options. They aren't necessarily designed to reduce distance, in fact they are designed to add distance to golfers that would actually gain from higher launch and spin 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut Appreciate the prompt reply and as always, great content
Your opinion please, I am 62 yrs , 7 iron speed of 84.5, currently playing mizuno MP20 HMB , KBS TOUR,c-taper lite, 110, stiff, do you think I would notice a difference? 15HDCP, Thank you , Tom K
Yes Sir.. my 2€ents to anyone our age(s), I’m 65.5 yrs.
Is to lighten up on your new graphite shaft weight. (80/90g.) You’ll gain swing speed & add better distance across the board. Move to Pgh,PA and I’ll loan you many different sets. #LoL 😅
Will you be doing a 243 vs 223 video as well?
Its on the list 👍
Great video. I am in a dilemma is it worth me upgrading from 225 to 245?
Under normal circumstances I'd say not to bother, but the 245s are a significant update in forgiveness (marginal in raw performance) so is absolutely say its worth upgrading should funds not be a issue.
Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut 👍
How would these compare to the hot metal pros 919
Currently doing the 245 against the 923 HMP so it may be worth looking at that one. I haven't got the 919 HMP 7i to test against it unfortunately. 👍🏻
Can you compare between Mizuno 221 and 241 irons?
Mizuno Pro 241 review coming today, you can watch that and decide if you think you'll need it 👍🏻
Do these feel soft? Anyone can answer this as they are forged?
They are Forged as such but with the hollow bodied design and tungsten lump in the bottom, no one can say they feel the same as the full on 241 solid forging.
Really the only way to compare the feel of the 245s is to compare them against all other hollow bodied designs and in this they are one of if not the softest feeling hollow body club out there 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut thanks. I ran out of time to compare them. I hit the 243’s but could compare the two. I did hit zx7, t150 and they weren’t even close to the 243’s in anyway shape or form.
Another great review Jay. I think that the 245 irons would be great for a 9 handicaper and a slightly slower swing speed, cause the lofts are what matter and not the number on the iron..My Hogan 7 iron is a 34 so the Mizuno 245 at 30 would be a 6 in my Hogans..But with more forgiveness.....Thanks...
Seems like certain comments are being deleted?
Which ones? 👍🏻
I replied to a few comments earlier that aren't showing up anymore :( @@AskGolfNut
@@AskGolfNut I commented using my phone account this morning within a couple minutes of when the video was published. Was the 1st or 2nd comment if I remember. Does not show up when I view the video on my laptop.
I'll look on the 'Held for Review' section to see if UA-cam has flagged it for any reason.
I very rarely delete comments and the only time I do is for people that are just being idiotic or rude or comments that are in no way constructive to anyone.
Luckily I have a fairly well behaving viewership so again only rarely find myself needing to police the comment section 👍🏻
245 seems better in most ways except spin. Great job by Mizuno.
You said the 245 launches higher but spins less but the variance between them is smaller than the standard deviation making that conclusion statistically incorrect. Statistically there is no difference between them…
Normally I would absolutely agree but this difference is apparent from multiple resumed sessions and a huge data set. The results keep repeating themselves. The variance is small, it will be small due to really only a CG location change, but its a consistent one and it continues to repeat always going the same way in its results 🤷 if it was true statistical blurring then the results would move around randomly, yet the 245 always repeats the difference over the 225. The SD is more so a measure of me being human and not a robot 👍🏻👍🏻
is 245 hmd or is the 241 hmd version
HMB stands for Hot Metal Blade and it refers to the Chromoly construction. 241 is full on Blade and the 245 is the Hollow Body design 👍🏻
thx boss
@@AskGolfNut
I am waiting for the black edition 245. Til then I am a 225 guy :D
Might be a guess but I don’t think you wanted to go in the water..
I felt the same 😊
Awesome video. So if mizuno nearly doubles it tungsten in their next iteration of the hollow body model that’ll will/should outperform the 245.
This is one of the reasons why I’m super happy with my 2021 Titleist T100S. I believe it has 70-90 grams of tungsten in them. They’re super forgiving with great forged feel.
gosh i wish you were my neighbor ..... we would be best friends..hahaha....great info....
Luke Donald went with the 245s.
He did, but what's not commonly known is that he apparently went a whole 4 degrees weak with them to match the traditional lofts of the 241s.
Mizuno retail custom fit only go 3 degrees in loft adjustment 👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut Gotcha. I’m a 3 handicap and just bought the 245s. Did I make a mistake??
In all purchases depending on the quality of the fitting, only time will tell. But there is no reason to see why the 245s won't be a great choice. A few haven't found them to be all they hoped but the majority of those after discussing came down to a terrible fitting experience.
You may depending on swing speed, determine that weakening the lofts a touch to either blend them into the wedges a litte smoother or reduce the distance gapping between clubs, but that's very much to fine tuning 👍🏻
I've just done a fitting session at my local golf store. Interestingly that to achieve the same results to that of Mizuno 225 (Project X 5.5 115g shaft) the fitter recommends me 95g DG S200 shaft. I did feel a bit of fatigue if I go with 115g for MP245 heads. Wondering if anyone has similar experience... or is it just my body who get confused with new club head...?
Interesting comment. The two shafts are quite different in bend profile so assuming this change didn't come from the Swing DNA Analyser? If it was then one or both has been interrupted wrong as they are quite different.
The 225 and 245 as close enough in dimensions for a human to blind test them even with the use of a little black tape on the top line disguising both. This way you could actually test both in both shafts not knowing which head is which.
I've done this many time in the past with clients that subconsciously manipulate their delivery of the club when they 'know' which head they are using.
Give it a test (also re do the Swing DNA as I'm in very much doubt that one or both of the choices are correct) and see how you do with pure blind numbers 👍🏻
Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍🏻
"Chicken City!" Haha!
just an observation. a lot of times when showing thin shots for example. your efficiency looks great still. 1.33 lets say. yet your club speed is down by 8mph. just questioning the numbers really. why does it seem to be a pattern that the data shows lower club speed on mishits. not questioning you but i am questioning the hardware/software. i would trust the efficiency more if it showed same club speed ever. ive seen a few videos with this pattern.
Commonly when doing that side of the data capture when swinging at slower swing speed I am not as consistent as at my normal speed so here and there I strike it wrong. This is ideal for the forgiveness side of things. For the others, when I have done all the different speed testing and I haven't captured all the mishit data I then capture it at my normal speed as its easier for me to purposely miss hit shots and keep delivery the same at my normal speed. That's why sometimes you see a changing speed 👍🏻 as club head speed has absolutely no effect on miss hit efficiency, I use the opportunity of miss hits whenever I can to use in the data. It takes sooooo long for me to collect this info I will take any help I can get 😊
@@AskGolfNut You do a great job with these... both the concept of how you do the forgiveness testing, and the execution / editing in the videos.
So ..I’ve gotta ask. How do you swing~weight these heavy 245 tungsten heads, w’ 50g of extra weight (?)
Did they have other same weight up higher in the 225(?)
Normally they'd want to keep the head weights fairly similar. They can change marginally but then not without having to do some pretty interesting work like the Cleveland XLs do with Counterbalancing.
So in these cases it's a further hollowing out of the head removing all non structural mass and placing tungsten in strategic locations for optimising CG etc 👍🏻
HaHa.. nice disclaimer at the end - reminding most of Us, that other than some crazy forgiveness for poor striking golfers. There might not be much reason to upGrade from 225’s. In fact (IMO) -
I heard, if you’re a 12HDI’cap or better. Keep your 225’s and maybe 🤔 even add a degree o’Loft:)
Signed: Trying to read
between the lines 🙌😼🏌️♂️
I love my fitted 225’s. On our difficult home course we have 5 par 3’s. The other day I had 3 birds, 2 pars and the pars were inches of going in for birds. Oh I’m not changing these babies..🏌️♂️🏌️♂️
Scoring that well on Par 3s is better than Tour so keep them close to you and never let them go 😊👍🏻