Roubaix's Biggest Tech Fails
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- Paris-Rouxbaix is a hot bed for new tech! The cobbles can be brutal on both bike and rider, that's why many teams try to think outside the box. Trying to make their riders more comfortable, fast and aerodynamic. Join Alex and Ollie as they take you through some of their favourite weird and wonderful Roubaix tech.
00:00 Welcome
00:35 Rockshox Rudy
02:21 Pinarello K8s
03:24 Lampre-Merida discs
05:17 George Hincapie's steerer
06:08 Self inflating tyres
07:53 Specialized Future Shock
09:33 Automatic chain lubing
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Which bit of failed tech is your favourite? ⚙️
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Which bit of failed tech is your favourite? ⚙
#1 ... However #2 ... However#3 ....🤣
Is course design tech? In that case the chicane.
Self inflate wheel hubs , perfect for touring with a bunch of friends , get a puncture and no more 5 friends annoyed for 30 minutes as you fix a puncture ! Touring is the market not race tech !
@@musclelessfitness2045 The nature of the topic dictates a list with this type of syntax. This attempt at tech, however it failed.
Fun fact, Greg Lemond rode PR with a Rock Shot.
So let me get this right about the Specialized Roubaix Future Shock. In 2017 Niki Terpstra took out the future shock on his Roubaix, and bodged in a solid block, and it failed. In 2018 Peter Sagan rode the bike, as designed, WITH a future shock, and won the race. In 2019 Philip Gilbert rode the 2020 upgrade of the bike, as designed, WITH a mark 2 future shock, and won the race. And yet we are told that the future shock is a tech failure. Something does not compute here.
I have the future shock mark 2 in one of my bikes and it doesn't feel good tbh. You lose feeling when steering and some power going in the suspension.
@@Diego.fromheaven It all balances out. Some people "loose feeling when steering" due to numb fingers from excessive vibration, which the future shock prevents. And as for "some power going into the suspension", in fact tech analysis show that things like bigger tyres and 10-20mm suspension reduce overall rolling resistance on the cobbles so LESS power is needed for the same speed.
Gcn labelling it a flop because it wasn’t even used leading to something else breaking.
@@Diego.fromheaven There's no power lost in the future shock suspension at all. The positioning of it at the stem means that the power from pushing down on the pedals isn't transfered to that part, it's too high up to make any difference. If the suspension were on the forks then there WOULD be power losses because the whole bike moves down as you press on the pedals.
Yeah this is dumb. The FS has been adapted across all new roubaixs, the diverge and even some of their electric bikes. A flop would indicate the tech is no longer being used.
The mental gymnastics of calling the Future Shock a flop because Terpstra used a bodged NON-Future Shock solution that failed are quite something.
Fair point, though I think it's fair to call the Future Shock a flop given it's not exactly been flying off the shelves, and poor PR (e.g. because of the Terpstra incidence, fair or not) may be part of that.
Future Shock was destined to fail because Specialized already used that trademark for their re-branded Rock Shox that came & went in short order. Outdated and kinda lame. Can't believe they resurrected that relic.
I would like to point out that however many "however's" there are in this vid there are however many alternative words we could have used, however in hindsight it appears we overlooked that. HOWEVER in the future I hope to remember this. However I can't make any promises😅
That would certainly prevent the comments section getting filled up with the same comment over and over. However it does show how many people don't read the comments but still add their own.
A quick cheat sheet to help Alex - nevertheless, nonetheless, notwithstanding, yet, all the same, be that as it may, but, for all that, in spite of that, just the same, regardless - you’re welcome 😂
world record for the use of the word "however" in a UA-cam video???
GCN is losing balance in presentation.
I will now write a strongly worded letter of complaint to the UCI and demand them to ban chainrings for that particular incident falsely blamed on disc rotors. there have been too many injuries!
Bring back chainguards! 😄😄
Agreed! Also too dangerous for the mechanics. I can‘t count how often I have hurt myself on chainrings trying to remove pedals.
I like how Alex face turned when Oli got sucked into the Wax Chain promotion again lol
Lemond said that he loved riding those rockshox thru a pothole and hearing the guy on his wheel go "ooof"
Despite the guy who won the race having his locked-out the entire time?
My brother was in the Discovery team car following Hincapie that fateful day. Also present in the car was Big George’s dad. When George hit the deck there was a deathly silence in the car for a few seconds. Then George snr said “well, that’s racing” and they dealt with his injured son.
All that AFTER the Big-T's marketing-mavens hyped the hell out of this "innovation". The poor riders just have to ride what they're given...ask Bauke Mollema what he said about SRAM on another video still up on UA-cam.
My list of P-R tech:
- synthetic elastic cobbles able to carry riders and race cars but still slightly deforming under weight of racers
- bash guards for brake discs and chainrings to protect racers in case of crashes
- Energy jelly filled tires to provide cushion and fed to racer though a silicone tube. As jelly is getting consumed freed space is filled up by air.
love this episode, Paris-Roubaix tech (the good _and_ the bad) is so fun.👏
You guys coming in clutch helping me with some race day nerves. Good vid!
The GCN+ Channel Paris Roubaix coverage was ace… oh wait 😢.
Yeah your completely wrong about the George Hincapie steerer. The culprit was the the Chris King headset. I noticed this on my own steerer at the time after the forensics shed light on what happened, but what ACTUALLY happened is that the CK headsets at the time used an o-ring on the compression ring rather than pay Tange-Seiki royalties for the split-ring design. CK's design allowed too much movement of the compression ring causing it to wear a groove into the steerer.
Many years ago, in the days of alloy steel frames made from for example Reynolds 531, I saw some astonishing footage from Paris-Roubaix - in black and white, that's how long ago it was! The film focused on a bike's front forks. The blades were typically curved at the time, not straight as per later Colnago or carbon bikes for example. The way the forks were flexing over the cobbles was unbelievable - about two inches of travel, to and fro. Maybe in the rush for modern technology and the commercial pressure to develop something new, it might be good to revisit the tried and tested engineering of days gone by.
Cantilever brakes also allow wider tires to be used.
Loved that. Really interesting and fun. Let's have more tech reviews like that.
Scottoiler have been supplying models for motorcycles for many decades. I think most owners love them.
I have got a lube system on my 1926 meteor bike :))
it consists of a small lube container with a musle that you can push down to drip oil on your chain, it just goes to show that most things have already been tried out
No mention of Steve Bauer's 1993 'laid-back' bike? Or did I miss it?
There was a photo of it when they discussed suspension forks, but no direct mention. Missed opportunity.
It had insane geometry, and it was definitely not a success 1:36
fear not! here is a photo of it! www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/tech/features/how-greg-lemond-made-a-pioneering-push-for-suspension-forks-at-paris-roubaix
@@jackseph03 wow, never heard of that, nor seen it. Ditto the full sus Bianchi for that matter! I do love all this crazy tech ... come on UCI, start removing regs.
I believe he was having problems with his hamstrings or something so he pushed for this design to use his quads instead.
Brilliant video said the suspension on my mind at the very end there the Specialized one.... was it an after thought 🤔😂
Bike suspension... it's a natural topic at Roubaix. I appreciate the history given, of prior riders who already tried suspension. Many times we think we have a novel idea but in reality it's been done before. I wonder about the Lauf Seigla, though. That brilliant front suspension seems tailor made for Roubaix.
How many takes did you need to get the intro done without bursting out laughing? Best intro of the year!
I don’t understand how discs and suspension were fails in P-R. Discs have allowed for increased stopping power in dust, wet, and mud,and allow use of wider tires. The RockShox fork was ridden to at least 3 P-R wins that I can recall. The future shock by Specialized was used by Peter Sagan and Phillipe Gilbert for their wins, I believe.
It was frame and fork design, and not rim brakes that limited tire size. I ride good powerful rim brakes that will accommodate tires as large as 44 mms, and brake easily to the limit of traction. Don’t believe everything the bike companies tell you (through GCN) to sell their latest flavor of the month.
My experience with telescoping suspension forks are that they are better at big bumps than small ones. If you ever have a chance to try out the Lauf Fork, with composite leaf springs, I highly recommend it. I’ve never felt anything smooth out a bumpy road better than this, IMO it would be a cobble stone game changer.
yep, this.
I believe manufacturers started introducing rounded discs after Fran Ventoso’s open letter. Thank you, Fran!
That full sus vintage Bianchi is SICK looking
The Cannondale Headstock!!!
5:46 No sidebar mention that George Hincapie's Trek had rear suspension like the Pinarello K8s.
Hey @GCNTech - did you notice, at 5:47, that the bike Hincapie is riding has an elastomer shock in the rear? The S.P.A. (Suspension performance advantage). So, other rear suspension was ridden at Roubaix.
Scottoiler; their lube washes off in damp conditions, evaporates, and gets flung off during use, it's genuinely terrible. Every motorbike you see with one has a bone dry chain, and a wheel caked in it.
Automatic oilers only work indoors with the bike on a stand, as soon as they're being used and there's some wind going on everything gets blown away.
I had them on 3 adventure bikes. Chains all well lubed, all the time. Weirdly seemed to eat chain o-rings though...
I use a simple cobra nemo oiler on my bike, it uses the same gear oil Honda recommends I put on the chain, and it's been brilliant.
I want to see "rider's tech" fail in this form... that will be fun!
Riding a 2019 Look 695 Ultegra rim brake frame with Mavic Ksyrium Pro SL wheels and 24 Pirelli P Zero Race , this is one of the finest road bikes I've ever had.
Disc brakes would completely ruin the aura of this handcrafted-frame-french-beauty😍!
...
Although I love the hydraulic disc brakes on my Grizl 😊
That full suspension bianchi road bike is sick. I think with modern suspension designs and air cans it would be a viable route.
Problem with the Scope Atmoz is that no one wants to add weight and drag rather than risk a puncture. If you don't get a puncture there's a chance of winning, but not much of one if you have a slight efficiency disadvantage in top level racing
we need a special gcn tech about the aero used by the runners, like the devil in the TDF!
I bought a Specialized Roubaix SL4 back in 2016. It was the last one to have the Zertz before the future shock and they definitely took out a lot of the road buzz. One of our riding group had the same bike but traded it for the next model with the future shock. I asked him how it felt and he didn't like it. His complaint was that whereas the Zertz suspended the whole frame, the future shock only suspended his wrists. He could feel all the road buzz through the saddle and especially through his feet. He regretted the change within weeks of buying the new bike.
Imagine all of this tech on just one bike!
I'd love to see a race between a typical TDF bike and a UCI XC racer to see which is faster on Roubaix.
I'd forgotten about the chain oiler. I remember everyone was saying it was going to be a game changer and that everyone would be using them.
What model is that calliper brake at 02:47? Looks different to a standard Dura-Ace.
Disc brakes weren't a tech fail/flop. They were a cultural fail at the time.
Having wider tyres with lower air pressure act like suspension too. No doubt still having to maintain the bike weight. Applying more weight on wheels would gain much better momentum, by choosing higher profile wheels and wider tyres.
cobblestone ? This is normal for german roads. It could be the reason why gravel bikes are so hyped ...
We are blessed with good roads here in Germany. I was in Belgium for We Ride Flanders recently and even on the way there, they had potholes in the highway big enough to park my Golf in.
Since the automatic chain lubricator didn't take off with the peloton it could be upcycled and used by 007 as an oil slicker while getting away from Gold Finger on a bike. Also, what bike would James Bond ride?
Motorbike… 🤷🏻♂️
the rocket assist never really took off.
This time next year, possibly adding hookless rims?
Nah ZIPP pays them too much
Scott-oilers are well used on motorcycles. I dont see them being of much use in a race, and frankly wouldnt consider it myself- but it may be convenient for some when bike touring
Interesting video. So no-one used the tech you promoted in the Paris roubaix video with Hank and Conner?
Also, couldn't get a shot of a Roubaix bike, just used a tarmac instead? 😂
Durianrider delayed the adoption of rimbrakes hehe
As someone who rides XC, let me get two things clear about suspension: The weight is not the issue and they're not for comfort, but for more speed.
The issue is, the suspension doesn't only damp the surface, but also your pedal strokes. Meaning you lose power on the pedal stroke, but also you will lose less power from whatever the road surface throws at you. So in general the question is, what outweights what.
You can archive similar effects with tire pressure, size and width. The bigger and wider and the less pressure, the less need there will be for a suspension.
Riding single-track on an xc is a bit different to cobbles though. On trails where you'd ride an xc bike the benefit of the suspension outweighs the weight disadvantage, while that's a harder sell on a road bike on cobbles. The calculation would be much more in favour of light weight, so if you can get just enough suspension with minimal weight disadvantage that would be the ideal.
@@morosis82 Futureshock is about 400 grams, but you can deduct some grams from it, as you can shorten the stem for it.
In general weight isn't the most important thing. Modern bikes are adding weight for better aerodynamics. Meaning to decrease air resistance.
A shock works on the other end. The rolling resistance.
I'd say a small shock - and we're talking 20mm for the future shock - will be a massive benefit on everything cobble level 3 and higher.
i think the main reason, why you didn't see it in the race, was because it wasn't tested and nobody trained on it and not because of the technology itself.
Johan Museo, almost nailed it...
The whole disk brakes rotors cutting peoples limbs off was a weird period in pro racing. Why did pro riders believe this was an issue. Cassettes and chain rings have always been far sharper and injuries caused by then aren’t that common compared to other hazards of riding at pro level
I long ago stopped caring what the "pro's" like. Just remember, pro's didn't want to wear helmets, didn't like brifters (preferring downtube shifters), thought super skinny tyres were better, and so on and so forth.
FWIW, I have a nasty 20 cm chainring scar on my right calf. I got it 25 years ago, and you can still see where each tooth punctured the skin.
@@richardhaselwood9478 So you still use your Spinaci bars? :-)
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 I had forgotten about those 😂. Don't tell the gravel pro's...
@@rlm4471 I had a co-worker a few years ago who had a litteral chain ring tattoo. I told him that spoke to me on a very deep, and personal level. He most certainly agreed.
Its 2024 we have short travel gravel forks now. We have come full circle to 1990. Why is no one using one.
Surely talking about a specialized with zertz inserts while showing a tarmac (with no zertz) is a tech fail… Isaac
I think suspension will be tried again. It did not make a lot of sense with the skinny tires because you want to have the added grip of those first.
The frames would have to be built for the shock fork. Shock forks are way taller.
guys, find that full-suspension titan bike and test it. It's awesome, perfect bike for the roads where I live
if it gets dirty, just get your bike changed LOL so why even bother, right?
wax chain ftw
Gilbert said in an interview that he lost roubaix because of the specialized future shock. It was the first year they used it and it couldn't be locked back than, therefore he lost a sprint
Watching the speed Paris-Roubaix was ridden this year, and remembering how much of the race is on paved roads, it seems large tires at lower pressures are enough tech to cope with the rough bits, doesn’t hamper a rider on the paved bits like the weight of a suspension might, and aero is far more important. overall
Self inflating tires? I never knew. Holy cow. I thimble that is really interesting. Older Harley Sportsters had self oiling chains. Not sure how many years that was for.
Have been a thing for ADVs also for a while now.
It's such a weird argument to say "disc brakes allow for wider tires" - bro has anyone questioned WHY we don't have wider rim brakes?... Sounds like a pretty easy thing to engineer
Cue Scott Oiler hate!😂
Rohloff had this chain oiler "on the fly" ages ago, much better, lighter, without batteries. Still, an idea looking for an application...
I have the 3.3 futureshock and it's dampening control makes it a million times better than it's predecessors.
the old futureshock did not have "sag" control, and most people were compressing the travel at or close to 50% just riding around, limiting the actual 20mm travel to half (or less)
now with the 3.3, you can dial it in to get the full 20mm.
zero side to side flex.
expensive gimmick...... but it works. haters gonna hate.
Disc brakes are NOT necessary to run larger tires. There are good, powerful dual pivot rim brakes that have plenty of room for tires as large as 44 mm and perhaps larger. They exist on some of our favorite bikes in our garage now. The true limiting factor was frame and fork clearances at the brake bridge, chainstay-bottom bracket, and the fork crown. Don’t try to blame rim brakes for the now old trend toward skinny tires. I’ve personally never run tires less than 26mm’ for which I used to be ridiculed. No longer. Discs are simply not needed on the road, no matter what the manufacturers want GCN to shill for.
We can play a drinking game every time Alex says "however", would be fun!
4:28 - so close and road cycling could've been saved from the catastrophic disc brake idea. Sadly it all went the wrong way and road cycling turned into gravellike circus.
0:24 oh burn 😀.... GCN trolling 😎.
#askgcntech
Hi Alex and Ollie 😊 you often talk about saved watts 👍 but what is 1 saved watt equal to i speed or time over - example - an 40 km flat route… does it differ where the watts are saved… tyres, bearings, aerodynamics gains or is a watt saved, a watt saved 😊
@ 1:47 that's not Museeuw's bike. It looked totally different. His had the rear damper mounted low, and a tiny rear triangle.
Scottoiler derives from a good motorbike product but probably unnecessary for cycles due to mileage covered, but on a wet or dusty Paris/ Roubaix it could have been useful when chasing marginal gains. It is a great company with brilliant customer service.
Suspension forks were not a tech failure, they were a commercial failure on road bikes. You could include them in the alternate video, "greatest tech successes at Roubaix".
so this was basically a Pro Level Hack/Bodge episode. Kewl.
Wouldn't it useful to research if flats are less frequent now with most riders on tubeless tires? I suppose that almost all flats are caused by impact, no thorns or nails to be found, but hitting sharp cobble edges at more than 40 kph are still causing most of the damage?
What happened to the Freespeed tech Ollie was promoting about a year ago? ... the gizmo that attached to your spokes and gave you sweet aero gains. Was it banned by the UCI?
If you aren't running the new gear by Fhajtek...you are a woozie
I’m confused how they shift from metrical to imperial so quickly
Perhaps the use of 'fatter' tyres has put paid to suspension bikes,infinitely lighter and more simple and faster on all but glass like surfaces.
However !!
How many times are you guys gonna say however in one video?😂
Steve Bauers super slack Eddy Merckx
Specialized future shock was such a flop that it won the Paris roubaix.
While the guy riding the bike had to borrow a wrench to fix it on-the-fly? PS- bikes don't win races. Unless someone is riding them they just kind of sit there motionless.
i dont believe a pro was in the little ring to cut another rider with the big ring
Given it happened during a crash, it's likely that the chain wasn't on ANY ring at the time 😂
@@petershelley4538 even on a narrow wide ring?
Do riders still use the Roubaix in the race, or are they riding the Tarmac now?
Those little tiny road bike mud gaurds that manage only to keep the brake calliper lock nut clean.
One of my riding group pointed out something on her bike last week that one of those little mud guards would have prevented. The rear of the top of the front fork (caliper lock nut area) of her alloy bike was very corroded. Her shiny black paint had been worn off by dirt etc (sand blasted) hitting that part and was now a white bubbly mess. Her bike shop said it would continue to corrode until it failed. That sounded like bad advice to me so we spoke about getting it sanded back to metal and properly sealed and painted with a protective mastic paint. All for the want of a little mud guard.
So you're pointing out road cycling holds back cycling in general?
Lol did specialized refuse to give you money?
The Future Shock system is the absolute best!
Didn't know Scottoil tried their bullshit in the bicycle world. Motorcycle riders hate that crap because it may leave an oil trail on the road when used incorrectly by another motorcycle.
I would rather see a rundown of all the tech successes that were either banned or just went away.
Freio a disco é muito perigoso, Depois que quase perdi meu dedo hj não tenho mais bicicletas com freio a disco não entendo porque ainda não obrigam para que estes discos sejam sólidos sem orifícios.
This is why Pirelli, Conti, and Schwalbe make a 35mm racing slick.
Max tire size in road race is 33mm.
@@l.d.t.6327 good point ! However, I am personally only bound by my fork and frame clearance
@@l.d.t.6327 Show me in the UCI rule book there this is written unless you're referring to 'cross where they check 'em on the start line.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 I guess I'm wrong, apologies. I can't find it in the UCI rules and just read it on a forum but didn't check sources. Anyway, I don't see the need to go wider, even in Roubaix with 200K of asphalt still influencing the tire choices heavily, but opinions may differ.
what about the foam filled bianchi of Magnus BACKSTEDT in 2004, who the hell knows what that would do
An unpopular comment I am sure: Biggest fail is using diamond frames since the UCI 1932 ban on recumbents in racing. So everything UCI approved since then is marginal gains maximal losses. Way to go guys pushing people to motor vehicles with slow uncomfortable torture machines.
Fair enough,
Recumbents are fast and look comfortable (never ridden one), but they look difficult to lug around and I'm concerned of pickup truck drivers not being able to see objects close to the ground.
@@Frostbiker Recumbents vary a lot. High racers put the rider at eye level of regular car drivers. Under seat steerers are unmatched for arm comfort and arms up high on overseat steerers are way better than anything diamond framed. I ride everything and as a Nordic champion I hope people recognize my experience in seat comfort: Recumbents are at least as comfortable as sofas or couches in the US. Can you say ultimate all day comfort even for the overweight? Niiiiice!
Recumbants are fast, but terrifying for peloton racing. You can literally not see a thing or sit up to look over other racers.
@@luukrutten1295You can sit up in a recumbent by taking the back out of the seat. I have raced in an all recumbent peloton and you see ahead. And I am not taller than the rest. I imagine seeing is an issue in a peloton of diamond frames. I have no experience of that.
9th in Roubaix , a failure... mate
Wider tires are coming
tbf the future shock is a flop, it only provides janky soggy dampening to the body and no added traction benefit that actual suspension gives.
I definitely thought the k8 would be come a thing if it trickled down in cost. Yeah that will never happen. Probably just get a soft tail.
You need to put a "However" counter next time 😂😂
@gcntech the sound on this video is a huge fail