Understanding The True Origins Of Israel
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Ilan Pappe, professor of history at the University of Exeter and Director of the European Centre for Palestine Studies, to discuss the ongoing conflict in Israel and Gaza.
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Professor Pappe then walks Sam and Emma through the genesis of the Zionist movement as an attempt to redefine Jewish identity as a nationality amid increasing persecution (and national-identity building) in 19th-century Europe, tackling backing of the project by European states and the US during the onset of the 20th Century, as they sought a clean expulsion of Jews from Europe, with an extra emphasis for the British on expanding their sphere of influence. After expanding on the Western-led colonial structure of the establishment of Israel - particularly in the ethnic cleansing of local populations.
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I was always puzzled why during the cold war Israel's staunchest political ally after the U.S. was South Africa. Their intelligence services worked hand in glove.
In many ways they were mirrors of each other. Both accepted naziis into their services after WW2. Both had similar racial ideologies and ideas about a version of manifest destiny aka lebensraum. They cooperated in cross training military, police, secret police and intelligence. lsrael used South Africa and its black population as a testing ground for oppression tactics and weapons and provided wmds. lsrael helped South Africa evade international sanctions and embargoes and acted as a covert middleman for aid to South Africa from the US and UK and other countries. lsrael provided Intel to South Africa on anti apartheid activists abroad and even helped assassinate several, provided Intel on US and UK government policies and legislation and political activity and that would affect South Africa as well as on the activities of anti apartheid groups in those countries and elsewhere.
lsrael tried to convince and coerce South Africa into not abandoning apartheid and minority rule by promising continued political lobbying and support, financial and military aid and intelligence etc and alternatively by threatening to divulge incriminating and embarrassing material on South African politicians and their families.
They passed the apartheid baton. Or maybe we should call it the apartheid club.
they also worked on projects to control the birth rate of the native population
And now Israel's closest and strongest ally, after USA, is Modi's India which wants to replicate Israel's successive ethnic cleansing strategy in Kashmir.
Because they're 2 sides of the same coin....the Dutch Boer settlers of South Africa were Calvinists who followed the Old Testament which means amongst other things that they viewed South Africa as the "New Jerusalem", themselves as God's chosen people and the Africans as their biblically ordained slaves aka. the Gibeonites in the book of Joshua
The problem with colonialism is that as the colonizer oppresses indigenous people, they paint the indigenous people as the aggressors when they defend themselves, fight back, or take revenge in a situation where they were the victims of unjustified violence or oppression. You can see this in what happened with the Palestinians and native Americans.
Ha, that's naïve. It's usually worse, like 'they're animals' or 'need to be subjugated'.
@@InternetMameluq I am arguing that this process of colonial dehumanization needs to end around the entire world. It has been wrong when British have done it, when Americans have done it, and when people from different religions do it.
Native Americans are actually from Siberia lol
@@orlandoescobar5174 You intentionally miss the point. The Native Americans were living in the territory of North America before they were genocided and the Puritans imposed an inferior religion on them.
@@orlandoescobar5174 You don't understand genetics or Time very well. Do you?
1981 i was in 6th grade. I remember reading about brit mandate, Abrahamic accords,etc. I was like " what?" The west gave them tribal lands of palistinians. 5th grade we learned about native americans. Now the teacher is telling me colonizing is good.
And to make it worse… Ashkenazi are 80% of the Jewish population on earth and they are not even semetic according to the bible. Ashkenaz was a descendent of Japeth. Semites are descendants of Shem. These people are originally from the Eurasian steppes. Khazaria to be exact.
And another thing. If the j3ws don’t believe in Jesus then who is the messiah they’re waiting for? Hmmm 🤔
@@ArtisanWindchimes And people like you are why this bullsh*t is just carrying water for antisemites
the tribal lands of "palestinians" (not a real thing, and i can prove it) are in the arabian peninsula, where arabic culture originated. israel is the ancient home of the 12 tribes of israel. it doesn't matter what their genetics are, as long as they identify as jews, that culture has occupied the lands of the eastern mediterranean for longer than any other culture and has the strongest claim to the land.
the jews were there first. the jews were there longest. the jews never left of their own volition.
let me ask you thins... if i, a white american and beneficiary of european conquest and colonialism in the new world, would be entitled to stay here in central oklahoma if the indians decided they wanted all their land back? or should i leave and go back to where my people came from... in this case ireland, scotland, the netherlands and germany?
@@TheRedStateBlue AshkeNAZIS are from Japeth. Not from the Middle East. Sorry. Identification theft.
OUTSTANDING interview.
As a Native American, I stand with the plight of the Palestinian as a matter of GENERAL PRINCIPLE.
I don't hate the Israeli. The Palestinian is NOW an Israeli as the land of Gaza IS IN Israel.
If the Palestinian cannot exercise LIBERTY and OWNERSHIP WITHIN the government of Israel, then it is a REQUIREMENT that they be freed from Israeli rule and engage in DEMOCRACY within the borders of their own land, their own state - treated as SOVEREIGN of their own reserve/reservation/nation
THERE IS NO END TO THE VIOLENCE until then. Israel has engaged in violence over generations to rid the land of the indigenous.
You would like The Iron Wall, written by Ze'ev Jabotinsky, in 1923. The early 20th century Zionists weren't shy about being colonialists, and what their end goal was.
The land of Gaza is not in Israel. It is internationally recognised Palestinian territory and was agreed upon to form a Palestinian state. Israel is *illegally* occupying the Palestinian territories.
Exactly. They are either a people with no rights in Israel or a sovereign nation that Israel is invading and colonizing on a regular basis
And the Palestinians have been offered full sovereignty of their own lands many, many times--statehood as well as an international NATO force managing Jerusalem, as offered by Ehud Olmert. Look it up. Palestinian Government is filled with terrorists, they don't want PEACE. They want PIECE---ALL of Israel's PIECE.
@@user-et2ng1qb2m Semantics is as semantics does. He was speaking Truth, not legalese. Legalese, as in "I paid three fake gemstone necklaces for New York". No, dude. You stole New York by taking advantage)
Palestinians are going through what Native Americans went through, but in the age of cell phones. This genocide is being documented.
This is a wonderful interview. Thank you for the MUCH NEEDED HISTORICAL PRESPECTIVE. It's so important to look back and understand the roots of the conflict rather than just looking at the events in the last month. This is very similar to Bassem Yousef's interview with Piers Morgan where he recounted the same story, but I'm glad you got an academic professor who can verify these accounts. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for having Professor Pappé on your show!
Just ask good ole Israel about, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne and the fact that these terrorist's were given military honor in 1975 again Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne
it is not meant for everyone to understand history@FarageYHWH
@FarageYHWH you’re a 🤡
@FarageYHWHso pathetic to write off a Jewish historians life's work. Shameful.
He's extraordinary!
Equal Rights and Justice for All
THAT IS THE THING, THEY DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A ONE STATE WHERE EVERYONE IS EQUAL AND DO NOT WANT TO LET ANY PALESTINIAN THAT HAS BEEN REFUGEES OUTSIDE OF PALESTINE TO COME BACK. THEY KNOW THEY WILL LOOSE THE MAJORITY BECAUSE ISRAHEL ONLY GOT 9 MILLION JEWS BUT IF YOU ADD ALL THE PALESTINIAN REFUGEES IN LEBANON, EGYPT, SOUTH AMERICA, USA, EU, UK, JORDAN AND THE GULF STATES, THEIR NUMBERS WILL SURPASSED THE NUMBER OF JEWS SO THEY WILL LOSE THEIR STATUS QUO. THEY WONT LET THAT HAPPEN. THEY ARE WHITE ASHKENAZI SUPREMACIST ZIONIST, THEY DIDN'T EVEN ACCEPT BLACK JEWS FROM ETHIOPIA. THEY ARE NOT SEMITE.
Enlightenment Fairytales...!!!
As long as you're dealing with highly flawed humans, you'll get inequality and injustice. Just read about American history.
Congrats on having Ilan Pappé on the show!!!
Thank you for your much needed support of the Palestinian people. Anti Zionist Jews stand with you
You bring shame to me as a jew. Maybe you should go to gaza and see how "poor" the palestinians are.
@@daneyal7162yu disappoint me cuz yu stole an entire identity… and defending that false with yur lives is crazy
@@daneyal7162 zionism = lebensraum
@@daneyal7162The odds are very high that you are neither Jewish or an American.
@@daneyal7162 how "poor" palastinian are? Medicine, clean water, food electricity is gonna rain from the sky?
The Balfour Declaration stated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communitiesin Palestine.”
The Hamas founding document calls for the genocide of a people as its founding principle.
That's Right ! ! ! They Tried For Peace Several Times ... Refer Prager U Commentary And Other Analysis * But All They Got Were Rockets A n d * Missions ! ! !
People lie, apparently.
@@AFlowerBloomsOncethe Jews were never interested in peace. Please stop believing their lies.
@@AFlowerBloomsOnce And I'm sure Prager U's Christian Nationalist commentary is wholly trustworthy...
This is a great summary of the situation, putting the past events and today in context and how peace is not compatible with long term goals of Israel. Peace is an impediment to expansion of an ethnic/religious state and an attack such as Hamas perpetrated just gives more legitimacy to Israeli expansion and oppression.
Conflating a right-wing reactionary government with the "long term goals of Israel" is fallacious, and I'm pretty sure there's a word for demanding an entire country cease to exist. You can't fix genocide with genocide, pookie.
But why don't we ever think that the attacks by Hamas are the result of Nakba and all the other atrocities that Israel has committed against Palestinians? Not condoning the attacks, but an occupied people would eventually retaliate. I recently watched a video with Rabbi Weinstein saying that before Nakba, Jews, Palestinians and Christians lived as neighbors in Palestine with no problems.
@@dianad1968 And Israel knows this, and their policy has always been oppression and provokation allowing them to justify ethnic cleansing with aims of self defense. Peace would eliminate such opportunities and they know that people are binary about these things and they are good at controlling PR and using global guilt from the holocaust.
@@dianad1968Hamas don't serve or fight for the rights of the people of Gaza or Palestine.
They fight & serve for Iran and the extermination of Jews, and not just in Israel/Palestine.
Most Palestinians, especially in Gaza, hate hamas.
No state based upon religion can be considered a democracy. A democracy is rule by the people, not by a higher being.
The British Protestant Unionists acted the same against the Irish Catholic Republicans in Northern Ireland. Gerrymandering borders and less rights for the lower classes coupled with discrimination to ensure a permanent Protestant Unionist majority.
Unfortunately for them they are no longer the majority and they refuse to re-enter the power-sharing government.
Which government? The Northern Ireland Assembly or the Republic of Ireland?
@@chazcmeekins83The political gridlock is in Northern Ireland.
Informative
Free Palestine from Israeli occupation.
Free Palestine. End Israeli apartheid
Which, oddly enough, you can do without relitigating the de facto right of Israel to exist.
@@populuxe1 "Which, oddly enough, you can do without relitigating the de facto right of Israel to exist."
You mean the coutry that only exists in stolen land?
Why didn't they wanted to make israel in the USA? They would had a lot of unused space there, contrary to Palestine.
Ohh... of course. It's because the USA has tons of military grade missiles for self defence, instead of homemade improvised rockets that can barely blast a car.
@@arturferrao7353 All countries, including yours and mine, exist on stolen land, and in the Old World, stolen many times over, so not really an argument. And given the USA turned away Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust, there really wasn't any good reason to feel particularly safe there. As for improvised rockets that can barely blast a car, that was true, but in case you've not been paying attention, they've been upgrading with that Iranian backing. Please don't give me that "Hamas are freedom fighters" crap - most of their leaders live in Paris and Tehran and they don't care how many Palestinian civilians get killed.
@@arturferrao7353 Or we could've taken part of Germany and Italy for Israel.
@@populuxe1 "And given the USA turned away Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust, there really wasn't any good reason to feel particularly safe there."
Yes, I know. I pointed it out in my post.
" Please don't give me that "Hamas are freedom fighters" crap"
Yes, I could imagine that you pretend that what hamas is doing is not self defence.
This discussion needs more exposure...
I never understand the “Israel needs to exist because never again” schtick as if a country’s mere existence can keep other countries from acting on its own population
Every group of people should have their own country IMO.
@@gaeron1305
Ethnostates are bad…
@@gaeron1305 not as an excuse for war crimes and also silly and the usa is supposed to be every person's country
@gattaca5911 yeah I'd say the US needs to tighten up its immigration.
@@gaeron1305 then offer them your country, not someone else's. thief.
First time I’ve heard a person actually start at the beginning 1917.
Israel has always been created through acts of terror. Just ask good ole Israel about, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne and the fact that these terrorist's were given military honor in 1975 again Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne
It goes back much further than that. Literally thousands of years. You know there have always been Jews there, right? They didn’t all rush into Mandatory Palestine post-1917 from Europe. A majority of Israeli Jews have Mizrahi ancestry (google it, or just think of them as a very clumsy analogy to “native Americans”).
Blaming the whole conflict on the partition, acting as if there wouldn’t be Arabs trying to murder all Jews in that region without it, or Hindus trying to murder Muslims in India without their partition, is so ignorant, it boggles the mind. Those are the two most infamous contemporary partitions, but several were mostly okay. Even among their neighbors, Lebanon and Jordan. Why did the clumsy partition not recognizing Druze or Kurds not lead to such an intractable, long-term, large-scale, active civil war? Why has Palestine refused every opportunity to be granted a state as part of a peace process, opting instead for genocidal calls for “from the river to the sea?” Because it’s not about the partition. It’s about how much they hate Jews. It’s about their barbaric ideology that demands martyrdom and crusades against infidels.
Let’s talk about the British during the mid to late 1800s
yes, agreed Just ask good ole Israel about, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne and the fact that these terrorist's were given military honor in 1975 again Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne
Unless you're jumping in your time machine to change history, it's not especially relevant.
These videos are so educational. Prof. Ilan Pappe is very articulate and intelligent.
when progressives remain regressors
@@JFrehley You're protecting an EthnoState based in Bronze Age fairy tales.
Tell us again who's regressive?
@@JFrehleyyou really went to town on this comment section huh? cool thoughts, man
@@AwesometownUSA lol can you tell im bored
God said to the Jews: heed my commandments, and do not break them in Israel. The 10 commandments, the ones about no murder and love thy neighbour....
Uh, those are the optional Commandments.
@@geraldmartin7703 yes, it's a fair weather religion. Act satanic when times are tough.
Great discussion
wow
Ilan Pappe!
What a great interview!
ty so much, MR 8-)
The Jews left Israel 2000 years ago. You don't get to comeback saying you still have claim to a land you left 2000 years ago. I hate that nobody brings this up.
As if the Zionists, their useful idiots and everyone else in between from the world's Jewry doesn't know this. They'll keep on saying it's their damn land whereas they're not the only descendants of Canaanites nor r they the only Semites to ever live. Zionism is pure evil like that.
They didn't. The owners of the land (British Empire) gave it to the jews.
How many years does it take in your book before Israelis have the rightful claim to their land instead of Palestinians? It’s three generations later now. Should the Navajo Nation get to expel natural born Americans from their homes because someone stole it in the distant past? Where do we go? Where do the majority of Israeli Jews who were born there go if the genocidal slogan of “from the river to the sea” comes to fruition?
@@orlandoescobar5174wasn't theirs to give but they were desperate to kick Jews out of Europe so who cares right?
I do along with this, Just ask good ole Israel about, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne and the fact that these terrorist's were given military honor in 1975 again Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne
9:00 Great question on the pretext of “Israeli” Jewish settlement in Palestine. The response sounds like the nuance that most people don’t know - at least not younger Americans. And possibly why we are told it is such a “complicated” issue if you have to look at the Bible and the Jewish faith and their past and futures.
BUT since October 9,10,11… I think many of us see it as a Colonial Occupier vs Occupied world history view that isn’t very complicated.
Why doesn’t anyone bring up the fact that the Palestinian people had their land expropriated in the Nakba by the State of Israel. Yet, conservatives and libertarians still mostly support Israel, despite the fact that property rights are an inherent part of the capitalist system that they supposedly promote. If another country had done this to its inhabitants they would have called for the return of this property to its rightful owners. This is an example of the double standards that the western world has for Zionism.
We love you guys, you make us proud
Also, besides this guest’s books, read The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi.
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
6:40 Mr Pappe needs to learn about the Indian Removal Act (1830). It was the forced relocation of Native Americans westward across the Mississippi. Indian Reservations are the modern result of historical "cleansing" in North America. The reservations were to keep Indigenous people separated from White Americans (usually Christians) occupying the now-cleared lands.
And every step of the way it was done supposedly in self defense
If you look at when territories became states. For example: Oklahoma 1890. That is the year that enough Natives had been removed to make the land “new” for whites.
12:40: Yes, that's interesting. Historically speaking there's a pattern of empires using undesirables as colonists, which are then still rather loyal to their suzerain
Ok no explain how Irgun and the Stern gang fit into that explanation. No rush, I'll wait.
@@populuxe1I don't know what that means.
That was an abrupt end. I wonder if there's a way to hear Professor Pappé's response to Sam's comment.
BTW Theodor Herzl (the father of modern Israel) was looking to put Israel in Uganda or Argentina, prior to Palestine.
Powerful and very profound discussion. Thank you friends.
Let's make people know the truth
I have a hard time wrapping my mind around something... They built the Al-aqsa/"dome of the rock" mosk, literally on top of holiest jewish site... Who's the indigenous population again?
But you're being dishonest though? WHY? That temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. You know that. So why did you try to deceive us?
you mean back when israel didn't exist and it was called judea?
also there' s no such ting as a ''mosk'', get it right
England has been trying to control that land since king Richard
[Romans have entered the chat]
Holy Land, you say?
You should not refer to them as settler colonialism. More accurately it’s settler apartheid and settler ethnic cleansers.
Colonies perpetrate ethnic cleansing and genocide, that doesn't make them not-colonies.
The historical record shows a series of contradictory promises relating to Palestine Balfour Project.
The British played both sides during the Ottoman war and then betrayed the Arabs when they fought along side the British. Remember Lawrence of Arabia.
If two people are fighting over land - the British were probably there .
Thank you for sharing
The ignorance of believing the indigenous (and it's reasonable to include mother nature. )were a mistake is the common thread for those who see themselves (only themselves!) worthy of "god". The ignorance and arrogance is breath taking.
I completely gave up on the issue, I ran into adults who believe Isreal was in the Bible and isn't a made up country of occupation.
When he says around 8:20 that the Palestinians would have voted for a secular multicultural democratic state in 1948 I would have liked to see a pushback question on that. None of the majority Arab Muslim countries in the region really have established that nearly 80 years later
Yeah, the idea that it would have been some secular Turkey 2.0 is farfetched. Until relatively recently the Palestinian territories still observed Jordanian law of 60 years ago.
Utterly fucking insane. The fact is, Israel is surrounded by people who would massacre every single jew if given half an opportunity. That is beyond hyperbole, it is a cold, hard historical fact.
I personally still have a ton of hesitancy to say any particular "people" has a "right" to an ethnically defined state... But, easy for me to say, sitting on colonized ground.
Thanks MR team
This explains a lot. I've kinda always thought that evangelical Christians have been trying to force the hand of Biblical prophecy. Just another wonderful mess foisted upon humanity by religion
Oh wow, we’re doing it! International politics 101
Racist Europeans and Americans, especially Arthur Balfour, who put forth the Balfour Declaration..
Seder should host Zeev Moaz, UC Davis
what missing from this talk, is the part where Zionism didn't push to control all of Israel, only a small part of it. the Arabs were offered most fertile areas of Palestine, but they declined as they saw it was wrong to give the Jews ANY land at all.
Anything that denies that BOTH Jews and Palestinians are native to the land is a non starter. Other settler colonialists show up with NO prior connection to the land. I say none of this to defend anything about the status quo, only that it’s hard for me to trust a persons argument when they are equating Jews returning to what was their ancestral homeland and Europeans showing up all over the world “discovering” places and wiping out/subjugating the native population. Jews haven’t stopped talking about Jerusalem and their time in the lands of Israel ever since they were kicked out and scattered amongst the world. I don’t know what the right solution is, but i do know it cannot start with only one side having a “legitimate” claim.
Founders of zionism identified themselves as colonizers. This denial is a new thing because colonialism isn't cool anymore. It is apparent in the names of organizations involved in creating the apartheid settler colonial project, lsrael.
"Jewish Colonisation Association"
"The Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association"
"The Jewish Colonial Trust"
I agree with you wholeheartedly, OP! ^_^
Though to be fair, I never understood why people think it's wrong to say that Europeans discovered America & all that stuff. Discovery is simply learning something without being told about it by other people -- this, it should not be inherently taken to mean "first discovery". To use a more-modern analogy, I could say that I discovered a really awesome mall in another city! Does that mean it never existed, or that people weren't there before I came there? Of course not!
Anyway, I do hope you see my point. :-)
@@chickensoup9869Now, now, let's not jump on her for expressing her opinion, even if it may not be the most-popular one. I believe in a similar viewpoint myself. :-)
@@TheMouseAvenger I said nothing about her.
BDS!
Ilan Pappe is a great thinker but he's also wrong on certain issues. It is not racist to give Jews citizenship if they so desire. Spain does it as do a few other countries I can't recall. I hate to say it, but Pappe is somewhat biased on this, as well as some other things.
Many countries have an official "state" religion: In England it is Church of England; in Denmark, Sweden, Norway it is the Lutheran Church; in Spain, Ireland and Italy its the Roman Catholic Church. Israel is not the only state which has an offical state religion...
But it’s the only one that requires you are that religion or become that religion to become a citizen.
But it’s the only one that requires you are that religion or become that religion to become a citizen.
But all have the same rights and are not 2nd class inhabitants
Can a Christian get British citizenship because of their Christianity? Can a Muslim get Saudi citizenship because they are Muslim? Absolutely not. Citizenship has nothing to do with your religion except in Isreal.
@@tayrowell
The 2018 nation state law that was passed in the Knesset makes it clear that not all Israeli “citizens” are equal, the state belongs exclusively to the Jews.
Wonder what Israel would do to the Europeans especially Germany when they get the chance, given that they are very vengeful
Look into war between Israel and Egypt.
@@lococomrade3488 or israel and lebanon
It makes sense now
Am I allowed to comment about the country whose name begins with I?
Because if I am not going to be censored, what I would say is, you havent been the bad guy very long yet.
the people whose name begins with P "have known who you are for a long time but now the world knows."
If you think its unfair that you're now "accused" of slaughtering civilians, it wont get better.
on ww2 the allies refused to take jews refugees, the evian conference ,so after the war the allies decided to put their new colonized settler state in palestine they payed the price of the ww2 war
How is it different from German nazis who were striving to clean German from everyone who wasn't Arian?
Its not. ❤
RT International-Aljazzera history lesson about Nakba-Zionism-Balfour declaration. What happened after the holocaust😢 Norman F, Roger Waters, Yanis K
Sam always bringing up the Dunning School lol
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
👌Ilan Pappe.
Yvertura was too long. Let Ilan Pape speak.
Christian countries and Christian people don't understand, either the Islamic/Muslim or the Israeli/Jewish spiritual view of the world. Christian societies are built on the fundamental belief of forgiveness and tolerance, "FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US"... Both the Muslim and the Jewish spiritual perspective is diametrically opposed to, and the direct opposite of this Christian belief. They 'both' have exactly the same foundational spiritual belief of "AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH". This spiritual belief is not given to them as an 'option', but is commanded of them as a spiritual necessity and obligation, as a means of "balancing the scales of karma".
VENGEANCE and REVENGE is therefore not just an option, but a spiritual obligation of both belief systems.
Over the centuries there has been so much blood that has flowed under the bridge between these two spiritual faiths that even God himself will find difficulty in reconciling them.
Lol. Christians caused more bloodshed than muslims or jews. Jokes
Why is US so invested in israel's alliance. What's the strategy? Is it oil?
yep
massive oil yield off the gaza coast
Israel just greenlit 4 major oil companies to search and drill there
as for the U.S it also serves as a proxy state in the middle east, where they can use mossad intelligence to attack anyone they want, launching from local bases or an aircraft carrier (if israel doesn't try to sink it first, they already did that once)
the U.S religious right want it because once all jews return to israel, and a special temple is built, it kicks off the final days and the second coming, at which point anyone not converted to Christianity will be left behind to burn and die in the apocalypse (this is the evangelical and christian dominionist take), sounds genocidal, and it also forces jews to convert on pain of death
Lets be honest; post ww2 the Jewish diaspora needed a home nation. If the native population was willing to share and create multiple regional states; Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Israeli, Sinai, etc there would maybe be less violence and volatility in the region? Maybe not. But the truth is, no entity wanted to work together. Instead all the Arab countries declared war with Israel. Why couldn't the world come together and share a land that 3 religions say is their homeland? Now we are beyond working together and its a religious fueled "this side" vs "that side" scenario... Nobody is "right" when humans devolve into this type of behavior. Pray for peace for all humans to live in harmony, or else we will get more violence. If that is what people want, so be it. Best of luck to all
Are you saying you can give one group a homeland by taking it from another and the people being encroached on should accept it? If that's the case why didn't european powers give a homeland to their jews somewhere in europe?
Not taking, sharing. Sharing takes agreeing by all sides. So yes, in a way there would have to be acceptance by the land sharing party. It has been shown time and time again that nation building occurs by conquest. Which leaves great suffering on many fronts. And yes, great question. Why didn't european powers give a homeland to their Jews? History seems to show that those powers had deep seeded hatred for them and did not want to share land with them@@aurelioisreal7964
@@aurelioisreal7964 Are you saying that just because you don't like how things went down historically you can erase a state of ten million people, because there's a word for that.
@@populuxe1 isn't that exactly what the Israelis are doing?
@@aurelioisreal7964 Isn't that textbook whataboutism? Also the assumption that every Israeli supports Likud's policies is incredibly ignorant.
It's not a fools errand sir. Hopefully you learned some from Ilan
Ben Shapiro should learn the history of Israel from non-Zionist sources!
US government files were released in 2018-2019 ? on the Jews coming from Russia to Israel who were well trained special ops troops in 1948.(10's Thousands) I lost the contact with the person who was explaining these files on Israel,from the US . IDK how to find those files today. I know the files were held for almost 70 yrs. If anyone who reads this comment know's how to find the right files with a "FOIA" request. the files were an embarrassment to the US gov.,i believe. ...I wish I could find them now..........
Just ask good ole Israel about, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne and the fact that these terrorist's were given military honor in 1975 again Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne, Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne
Why can’t European Jews have a “land of their own” IN EUROPE?
Because the European powers wanted them out. Britain has been trying to kick Jews out since the 13th century.
@@chetmanley1885It sure seems that way. Europeans (the Brits really) decided to solve two problems with one solution. Convenient that they had this land previously occupied by the Ottoman Empire. A disgusting move only a colonist superpower would do.
I'm sorry but this tells me nothing about the origins of israel. how about when you invaded palistine immediately after the brits moved out, and took over the country by force?
What country?
Dammit Sam, read some of these comments and tell me you're not carrying water for antisemites.
and you're clearly carrying water for Zionists.
It’s really disappointing. The majority report has crossed the line from legit criticism of Israeli policy to outright Jew hatred. Sam should work out any issues with his identify on his own time
Well do you know the history of Palestine? The name was given by the Roman Empire and the borders were created by the British Empire. There were no such thing as Palestinians they were Jordanians.
do you know history? seems like you don't BRUV!
wrong all round
even the name origin is wrong, it comes from the greek word for ''phillistine'' which was native to the area, shakespeare makes reference to the land of Palestine in the 1600's in one of his works.
the borders were not created by the british empire; given as the borders now do not match that, the brits ORIGINALLY gave the land to the inhabitants of that area as thanks for help with the ottomans
then in typical brit fashion, we stabbed them in the back for our own purposes, and imposed an artificial state in the region, and let the new settlers hold the region as the allies displaced 700,000+ of the indigenous population, then left the newbies with the bag while we fucked off (massive anti-semitic action)
the new settlers now had to deal with rightfully pissed of locals, hence israel's first war
and it's been much the same ever since, israel decided to occupy beirut at one point, they did a nakba they kept taking more and more land as a consequence of being ''invaded''
which is how they now have 80% of the land, as opposed to the original 10%
nut the fuck up, buckaroo
"c. 1000: Suda encyclopedic lexicon: "Παλαιστίνη: ὄνομα χώρας. καὶ Παλαιστι̂νος, ὁ ἀπὸ Παλαιστίνης." / "Palestine: Name of a territory. Also [sc. attested is] Palestinian, a man from Palestine"
lol idiot .over 1000 f years ago
it’s the Talmudic Zionism you need to be addressing $eedy, but we don’t think you’ve got the necessary permissions on that task 😂
It’s nice to hear the LEFT WING perspective. That’s why I watch this channel to hear extreme views from the LEFT and I listen to the Tucker right wing extreme perspective on the RIGHT. I’m an INDEPENDENT VOTER, a COLD WAR, GULF WAR, and afghan war veteran…. Free speech is VERY IMPORTANT to me! I may not agree with these left wing extremists all the time but I do agree with giving them THE FREEDOM to speak “their truth”.
Everything presented by the guest was THE truth. Not “their truth”. Opinions on options or approaches are just that…opinions. Tucker loves to use opinions as truth, so you’re correct there.
Also a non-party member.
THERE ARE NO LEFT WINGS EXTREMIST IN THIS CONVO...THERE ARE NO SUCH THING AS LEFT OR RIGHT HERE, ITS JUST COMMON SENSE. ITS NOT A COMPLICATED ISSUES. YOU STOLE SOMEONES LAND AND OCCUPIED THE REST. SO JUST GIVE BACK THEIR LAND AND STOP THE OCCUPATION. SIMPLE. COLD WAR, AFGHAN WAR GULF WAR...ALL USELESS WAR THAT THE US SHOULD HAVE NOT BE PART OF IN THE FIRST PLACE. A WAR BASED ON LIES AND DECEIT THAT COST MILLIONS OF INNOCENT LIFE. WARS THAT ONLY BENEFITED OILS, GAS AND WEAPONS MANUFACTURES COMPANIES AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SECURITY OR DEMOCRACY OR WHAT NOT.
This channel is NOT "extreme Left." Not even close.
Take take and take and give nothing
True origins:europe
Self explanatory
jews were racist in jesus day, and boasted abraham as their father, in the flesh, believing they were a cut above the rest.
And to make it worse… Ashkenazi are 80% of the Jewish population on earth and they are not even semetic according to the bible. Ashkenaz was a descendent of Japeth. Semites are descendants of Shem. These people are originally from the Eurasian step.
If Juuz don’t believe in Jesus then who is this messiah they’re waiting for?
Racist against their own?
@@ArtisanWindchimes it never was about race. "God is able, from these stones, to raise up children for abraham" --jesus speaking to the religious
rulers who boasted in their DNA. it is a new creation, the kingdom of God,
for "only those who are christ's are abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise," it is not about land either. john 4: 19-24 look it up. > no one is going to worship in jerusalem. and most of the christian world buys the lie
about present day israel. it is not "the israel of God". the kingdom was taken from them in ad 70, by the hand of God, for rejecting jesus as the messiah from God. . dispensational christian zionists narrative.
these are not the days of moses and joshua, wherein all the promises of
inheriting the land, and battles ensued, were fulfilled in full. they stumbled over the stumbling stone. the rock is Christ. and all the promises of God are YES in him, the fulfillment of all things written. go figure. word up!
The History of the imaginary Palestinian state:
1. Before Israel there was a British Mandate, not a Palestinian state
2. Before the British Mandate, it was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
3. Before the Ottoman Empire Was the Islamic State of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state.
4. Before the Islamic State of the Mamluks from Egypt, the Arab-Kurdish Empire was the Ayyubid, not a Palestinian state.
5. Before the Ayyubid Empire was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.
6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the Umayyad and Fatimid empire, not a Palestinian state.
7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, the Byzantine Empire was not a Palestinian state.
8. Before the Byzantine Empire, there were Sassanids, not a Palestinian state.
9. Before the Sassanid Empire was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.
10. Before the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
11. Before the Roman Empire it was a Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.
12. Before the Hasmonean state was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state.
13. Before the Seleucid Empire was the Empire of Alexander, not a Palestinian state.
14. Before Alexander's empire it was the Persian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
15. Before the Persian Empire was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
16. Before the Babylonian Empire were the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state.
17. Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was no kingdom of Israel in the kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
18. Before the Kingdom of Israel, the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel was not a Palestinian state.
19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an accumulation of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.
20. In fact, in this plot of land kingdoms fell and fell ..
But there was never a Palestinian state or a people…-/:()
@tomservo5007. "Before Israel there was a British mandate" It was never British land in first place! What gives them {The British} the right to mandate someone else's land?🤔#2} If you're going to tell a story/history, always start at the beginning, not in the middle, only then will you understand. So, let's start at the beginning! In ancient times Israel was a part of Egypt at which time Egypt was known as KEMET, in fact the only thing that separates the two in the Suez Canal, which was built in 1859-1869, that was the cause of the 1947 war between Egypt and Israel, Egypt/Kemet was trying to get back it's land!! #3} The Arabs as well as the Europeans came to North Africa as INVADERS, in fact, it was the Europeans who change the name from Kemet to Egypt!! Do some CRITICAL RESEARCH!
@@CommonSenseGUY79 keep going down the list, and you'll get to the beginning, BTW, how many degrees of separation is YOUR land to Native Americans? 3, 4? The point is, that there was NEVER a Palestinian state. "" It was never British land in the first place", you do realize they were the largest empire and absolutely had the say in MANY foreign lands? Chances are you are reading this comment from a former colony
@@tomservo5007 Your comment doesn't even make sense! Reread my comment, prove me wrong or GO AWAY.
Whether there was a state by the name of Palestine or not is irrelevant. There was always a population of Arab speaking natives who existed there for hundreds of years. They didn't deserve to be thrown out of their homes and massacred.
Jews ARE indigenous to Israel. Europeans were not native to the Americas. To compare the two is absurd.
I’ve been a viewer of this channel for 11 years, but it’s getting to be too much.
Yup
If you were 2,000 years away from Israel I would not say you are indigenous.
@@normarojo5834 If you can point to ruins inscribed with your language in its oldest form, that becomes a ridiculous argument.
@@populuxe1 No, it doesn't.
If my great-great-grandfather carved on a rock in the middle of Ohio, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to a chunk of Ohio.
Yall are so willing to excuse and accept Imperialist EthnoStates under the premise of:
The Bible says so.
Fuck their Nronze Age fairy tale.
They're an Apartheid EthnoState. And you're defending Genocide.
@@populuxe1 can everyone claim to be indigenous to Africa then?
Ottoman caliphate kept peace in this region until British empire came and that’s all you need to know
“Understanding the true origins of Israel from a platform that wants to use Israel as its personal little experiment in decolonizing”
If the jooz don’t believe in Jesus then who is the messiah they’re waiting for?
Can anyone tell me about the human rights in Israel versus Palestine? I’ve heard it’s criminal to be gay over in Palestine.
Well I can tell you there is no human rights in Israel it is a terrorist apartheid state and Palestinians doesn't control anything even the west bank or Gaza
Well, let's get the Palesinian people basic human rights first. Then we can worry about that.
@@LahceneBelbachirdoes Hamas care about Palestinians civilians basic rights? No they don’t, just like Isis doesn’t care about human right or any Islamist group.
@@LahceneBelbachirpeople’s sexuality isn’t a basic human right? lol 😂
@@ProtossHyrdalisk dude, are you tripping?
People in Gaza are being bombarded daily, have no water, food or electricity...
C'mon!
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
This is completely irrelevant to the current situation. Irrespective of how the modern state of Israel came to exist, it exists, and discussions like this that imply it shouldn't exist is at best equivocation, and at worst, invites the idea that something should be done about Israel's existence. You're also downplaying the influence of generations of trauma from the Shoah on the politics and mentality of Zionism, which is troubling. Can we please just stick to demanding Israel go back to its UN mandated borders, stop illegal settlements and disproportionate retaliation against Palestinian civilians, and acknowledge that Hamas are not misunderstood freedom fighters that have Palestinian interests at heart?
That would take an enlightened viewpoint that could have perspective to the many sides of this tragic scenario. It would also take a mind and heart that wants love to prevail and the good for all mankind regardless of ethnicity/race/religion. Are we capable of that? I wish we silly humans were
Agreed
8:38
No it isnt.
Japan has it. Ireland has it. Italy has it.
Japanese, Irish, and Italian aren't Religons, you dope.
You're just defending Nationalism and Apartheid and Imperialism.
@@lococomrade3488
And Judaism is more than a religion, it’s a culture and ethnicity.
It’s also small, like really, small.
@@edwardcohen1184 I know, bud. I'm Jewish.
Your position is still meaningless. 🤷🏻♂️
You're just defending an Imperialist EthnoState.
@@edwardcohen1184 Also. Wait. No.
Judaism is the religion.
Hebrew is the ethnicity.
Israeli is the culture.
It's not all Judaism. That's just the religious part. 🤷🏻♂️
@@lococomrade3488
The fact that you are Jewish and happily simping for people who would murder you in a heartbeat makes me want to throw up 🤮 things that I don’t remember eating
I’ll HAPPILY cop to defending nationalism, which is good. Patriotism, nationalism, these things give us meaning in communities.
as for imperialism, are you insane?
Israel is the size of New Jersey, even WITH Judaea and Samaria .
1:17
Israel does.
It’s not perfect, but there a your answer.
Prof Pappé has had left wing guilt and suicidal altruism blind him to the truth.
The Jewish people needed a state
No more Mr victim.
No, it doesn't.
Explain how Israel had a moral righteousness to be Imperialist?
@@lococomrade3488
1. Israel isn’t imperialist
2. It has a connection to the land
3. The Holocaust proves the need for a Jewish state
4. The Arabs rioted against the Jews in British Mandate Palestine in 1936-1939
causing the British to publish something called the White Paper, prohibiting further Jewish emigration to Palestine. And Hajj Amin El Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, was a Nazi sympathizer
So the Palestinians were not historically blameless, even though the 99 percent majority was on the Nazis
There are over 200 indigenous American tribes
that are recognized by the American government. Yes,we took their land, but we did so under the rules of conquest which had been in place for a thousand years. They lost. Live with it.
Silence, coloniser
we evolved past lots of heinous ideas from your dumb books...not interested in claims before this: "The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols form the core of international humanitarian law, which regulates the conduct of armed conflict and seeks to limit its effects." gfy
so you agree with chattel slavery since the planters were following the rules. I've seen your argument used to defend the holocaust.
@@SpoopySquid When we came to this continent, we were confronted by a people who said that all of this land is their land. We had a disagreement. They got their asses handed to them. Colonizer? No problem.
@jb34ch1 Pretty sure that I have not ever defended the holocaust.
Israel has history in the Hebrew land for thousands of years. They are the indigenous people of that land. It’s not a new idea. Where are the Israelites supposed to go since no where else is safe?
It is also a lie that Israel is a “racist state” when there are many mixed, Arab, Israeli, Ethiopian, etc living there.
Palestine was a name given by the Romans that is much younger than the Hebrew history there. There is an actual case for Israel to exist as a state while still coexisting with an independent Palestinian state so people born in Palestine can have their heritage as well.
Ironically all the dehumanizing, racial hatred, and religious fanaticism perpetuated by Islamic fascists are ignored by supposed “leftists.”
There is a case, you're absolutely right, but Israel's militarist government has not heard that case and has in fact done all they can to prevent that outcome from ever becoming a reality
That's not how that works. You can't go back to where people with similar religions lived 1000 years ago. Every group lived in different places. For example: Before the jews were promised israel in the bible there were different people already living there. That's what the point of the Bible is: the Israelites were immigrants.
☣️ Hasbara Detected ☣️
You can not leave and come back 2000 years later. Without the British army to steal the land Israel would not exist. Its not some mystery why every state surrounding Israel hates it.
Why are Palestinians paying the price with innocent human lives for what the Germans did? Why do people suggest Palestinians should go to the Sieni when 99% of Zionist Israelis have *zero* ties to Palestine. I will never understand this. Also _ why are Jews against Muslims when that is the *only* time they have ever been safe? Anna dammi Falestini. My blood is Palestinian all while they are European. Why doesn't Europe take their people back ?? There are Jews who are completely against ZIONISM. Its just a completely racist agenda that inshallah will be finished sooner than later.
Hezbollah the leader H. Nasrallah said the deployment of U.S. assets and troops, along with high-profile visits of U.S. generals, proved Israel is weakened and “needs American support” to “stand on its own two feet.”
“Israel is weaker than a spider web,”
This is sickening.
Right. Any EthnoState committing Genocide needs to be stopped.
Regardless of their Bronze Age fairy tales.
Jews are literally indigenous to the land of Israel, Jordan and Sinai region. So, if people want to make the Indigenous people comparison, then you might as well do it with the correct context. Shame on all of you. Islam gets to have and protect the country of its origin, but Judaism/Christianity doesn’t? Glaring double standard.
Doesn't give them the right to ethically cleanse the local population.
Oh, Sinai and Jordan as well, so we should expect the Jews to come and practice their right to defend themselves in there as well?
@@TheAmrthe2nd Whatever you’re implying, the fact is clear: People who have historically inhabited lands before others are the rightful holders of that land.
@@sameenshahid7457 And why is it, pray tell, I never hear accountability being taken by Muslims for their ethnically cleansing of Jews and Christians?
@@bloodymetalangel287 ok put aside the fact that this not how real estate works, you have to prove ancestral lineage, which no one can, giving that there almost 2000 years gab, and same religion is not really a factor in inheritance, again specially after almost 2000 years, and put aside also that the reality the historical Jewish kingdoms were far more smaller than the size of Israel now, my question is do you really think Jews were in Sinai before the Egyptians?
I laughed when he said, "the only jew they want"