I bought a second hand 2017 Zoe ZE40 two years ago. The SOH was reading 93% then with 45,000 km on the clock. It is still reading 93% today at 70,000 km. I can still get about 290 km range out of it on a warm day. So impressed with my little car.
I know of someone who bought a Zoe with the battery lease. His battery capacity was low. Renault did a series of updates to the battery management system. (BMS) and the range went up to almost its original distance. Which goes to show that there is more to the BMS than it seems. This was a 25kw battery.
Yes common issue. The original BMS software is buggy and when updated the battery gets reported properly. Early Zoe's on the original BMS software can show a battery SoH of about 60%, but with the update, the SoC will be around 85-95% depending on the state of the pack.
2015 Zoe here. 72.000km and SoH is at 98%. Almost always charged at 1,7kW. Top speed on the motorway at a constant 70/80kph. I have to say, trading my petrol car with an EV last year was one of the best decisions I made in my life. At current fuel prices my car will break even in 5 years or less!
@Internet Research Agency 0,21€/kWh from my provider. About 4€ a full charge. 1/6th of what I would pay in petrol at 1,50€/L, before this whole 2€/L disaster unfolded this year.
@@coskun3735 If I am public charging I try to stop at 80%. When home charging it usually goes from 15/20% to over 90/95%, but that's because the car charges faster than I sleep. I'm still figuring out how can I limit the charge to a lower maximum
We have two Zoe. The first one was bought new and is a ZE40 R110 2019 that has done 130 000km, now SoH is 92%. And mine ZE50 R135 2020 that I bought used in nov-2021 with 8 000km on the odometer and at 96% SoH. Now it has 43 000 on the odometer and still 96% SoH. But it is a difference in the SoH reading between the ZE40 and the ZE50. On the ZE40 it is temperature independent. Not so on the ZE50, in February (batt temp at -3 C) it read only 92% SoH but now when it is warm outside (batt temp at 20 C) it is at 96% SoH. All with CanZE.
Another great informative video Matt 👍👍 My Renault Zoe ZE 40 Q90 purchased new 5 years ago ( June 2017 ) has just done 60,000 miles and using CanZE to measure battery SOH says 90% 5 years ago when I first charged the car to 100% it would display 217 miles range ( using the two pedal reset method ) now if I charge to 100% it's showing 205 miles range again with a two pedal reset .
I saw a video a little while ago on a minicab in the Midlands. I don't remember the make or model but it had over 150,000 on the clock, on the original battery.
Hi Matt i think it might be worthwhile doing a video on how joe public can assess the battery health of popular second hand EV using tools/ tech that are low cost and easy to access as i dont ever see adverts from sellers describing this essential piece of information. Cheers keep up spreading the knowledge its things we are all going to need to know.
I do offer a Renault scanner hire to owners of Renault Zoe & Kangoo electrics. See www.gogreenautos.co.uk/renault-scanner-hire As for the video, it's a good idea. But I don't use the cheaper methods myself as I have the scanner that works on all vehicles. But I'll give it some thought and add it to my list of video ideas.
@@GoGreenAutos Thanks for the reply Matt the two cars I consider viable at my price point are the Zoe and Seat Mini would the device work on both? Also I would try to visit several cars and pick the better vehicle looking at condition spec and battery health so it might be better to have use for a couple of days or even better have a single and software that can do multiple makes as the Ionia may also be in my sights plus the market for used EV is only going to improve.
Running a used 2012 Kangoo ZE, 22 kWh battery for 10 months. Almost same ev system as ZOE. It odo at 80k km and a SOH at 75% is now 74% after another 10k km The numbers has ween watched closely and it differ up and down +- 1% depending on your driving style,temp conditions and charging habits. I usually avoid charging extremes like full/empty and keep a low speed at long distances in order to extend distances. (Fast charging not present) Speed is a major factor determining your available distance in EVs, more important than in fossil fuel engines.
For those of us considering buying an affordable used car, it would be useful to know what the actual driving range is at this age and mileage. With the seasonal mild weather, measuring now would provide a best case scenario. The main issue for used car buyers is whether the remaining battery range will be sufficient to make it practical to consider a used EV.
It's as easy as taking the percentage of degradation off the listed new range my 2018 leaf I recently sold had 94.3% SOH at 70,000 miles and 5% off 150 new range equalled around 12 miles lost which was exactly what I got on the road so 138 miles range. If you wanted to know what figures that equates to in winter it was around 110 with the heater on all day, summer would be around 150. Cheers
Our 64 Zoe with 59000 miles is still at 91%. We do stop start town driving and nearly always run the battery right down to 15 or fewer miles on the guess meter before charging. I don't know if that helps but that's our procedure.
The charge difference between modules is because they were not charged all the way to full to get balanced. I would have expected a road test starting from full to almost empty, 90km/h as constant as possible, to see what the real difference is. Then compare that to same data gotten earlier. That percentage is not necessarily real life range.
Renault did away with the blue badges a long time ago as they don't last long and the blue peels off. They changed thousands of Zoe badges under warranty with standard chrome ones. Zoes that weren't done just look tatty.
In France, the Renault warranty for batteries is 6 years. Bought my Zoe R110 (50) on july 2020 and I'm pretty sure I'll still have a good capacity in 2 or more years...
There is a pretty large variance on battery health depending on how the car has been used and charged. If you have a car that does long trips and gets lots of quick charges the battery life will be severely reduced but one that is charged slowly over night and does mainly short trips around town will see much longer life. Again it is dependant on what you want the EV for how long the battery is going to last.
This is what gets repeated so many times, but in the real world, the reality is that rapid charging has no noticeable effect on EV batteries and the way the car is driven or charged has no noticeable differences either....that is on anything other than a Nissan Leaf. The only thing that can have a measurable negative effect on the battery is leaving it fully charged for long periods of time. That is why some low mileage EVs will have poorer battery packs than high mileage EVs.
@@GoGreenAutos Its true you should never leave the battery over 80% for any amount of time but fast charge does degrade the battery faster than slow overnight charging, that much is scientific fact. Although heating caused by fast charging can be dealt with which is why the leaf is garbage because they had no cooling in the battery at all, the high current of fast charging also has an impact on the cell chemistry. Now this is variable depending on how the batteries are designed but it does happen on all batteries to some extent and batteries that are frequently fast charged with always have less capacity than the same battery design that is slow charged. Also keeping a decent amount of charge on the battery at all times reduces wear on the battery considerably. Deep cycling degrades lithium cells quicker than anything.
If you have a garage, if you can charge there, if your car does consistent uninterrupted journeys, if you do lot of off-peak driving, if its a warm day, I suppose you may do okay. If you dont have a garage, if you do short interrupted journeys, if you have to stop for hours getting recharged, if you have to stay warm in your car, if the local wind farm runs out of storage, I suppose you won't.
These owners will be from a middle class life & care planet wise, but they will have done the same usage as the rest of us overall give or take, so it's a fair review & they are all really happy, unlike us fuel car owners always grumpy with our car existence.
Indeed Jeff. A decent used Zoe, along with an EV tariff such as EDF at 4.5p per kwh, or Octopus Go at 7.5p per kwh, could see your cost per mile at 1.5p or less.....
I've been using devices with batteries since 2007, it took me buying a battery-operating car to learn that I should always keep it between 20 and 80% (full charging only once a while) to preserve its life
Actually lithium ion batteries do not like being kept discharged too low or charged fully. Actually keeping those states does more harm than going there.
What you can't tell us is when it was BMS updated. And what SOC the car was at on average in the year it only did 3k miles all of those things are important in the SOH.
Interesting report Matt... to make the point persuasive for ev doubters I need to somehow work out the percentage loss of performance in an equivalent mileage ice car. Any simple ideas on how on earth to do that from anyone would be greatly appreciated... I am a bit number blind though... 🤔 😆
Hello folks we are in 2023 , there is a Renault Zoe that have catch my eye , the year is 2017 with 70,000km on the clock . The battery health is 87% . Is it a good bargain . Especially if the battery already started to degrAde ? Or it will be a bother and a will have a lots to spend in the future ? Any comments most welcome thx
My Zoe is from 2019 and i drove 50.000 km (31.000 miles) My SOC is 94% But remember, the value doesn't say much. The problem is that the vehicle manufacturers do not disclose the algorithm! It can therefore not be compared with other vehicles and also among themselves it is not readily possible. Also, the information is not necessarily based on measurements!
Exactly. That is an estimate. This is why a road test with a set speed, a given temperature would be compared to an earlier run and then see the real degradation.
My wife had a Zoe with a leased battery At 62000 miles the range dropped off dramatically The SOH read 94% with Renaults scan tool. After a fight we managed to make a claim and the battery was replaced for us The company that replaced it told us the SoH of the old battery was actually around 62% which made total sense with the range we had. I’d take your test with a pinch of salt - it’s not accurate just as Renaults wasn’t accurate
Sounds normal for a main dealership to be pulling the wool over your eyes, unfortunately. What you also describe sounds as if your Zoe just needed a BMS update, as batteries at 62-65% SoH is the tell tell sign.
@@GoGreenAutos I agree with you on the first part I’d like to assume they did a BMS update as they had the car into the dealership on 4 separate occasions, trying to do anything they could to avoid putting a new battery in it. Alas all failed and they paid for an independent garage to supply and fit the battery for us After that, it’s range was the best we had ever seen
@@GoGreenAutos _"What you also describe sounds as if your Zoe just needed a BMS update,"_ Exactly my opinion. The SOH reading is rather unreliable to my opinion. I check and record the SOH and deltas of cell voltage every time when I charge my Zoe 2014 90kkm. The SOH went from 98% down to 66% within about 2 years before BMS update and was at 98% after BMS update about 3 years ago. Since then the SOH gradually went down to 81% and up again to 94% within a period of about a year and a half wtihout any intervention though which is very strange. Therefore I concluded that this SOH reading has little to nothing to do with real battery health. Most likely there are errors in the software calculating the SOH, at least for Renault Zoe. The max cell voltage difference never exceeded the range between 5 to 20mV with one exception of 100mV when I accidentally had discharged the battery below 0% about half a year ago because I reached the safing charging station with -13km due to defective or occupied stations. I'm mostly charging with 2.3 kW from my solar roof and my charging and driving habits did not change at least during the last 4 years.
Yes. All EVs do, apart from the Nissan Leaf and to an extent, the Nissan ENV200. The Zoe, like most, have forced air cooling and it uses the air conditioning system.
Hello! A big thanks! for a good Video. I wonder if it is possible to change the brake fluid on the Renault Zoe Year Model 2015-2019, with this Fault Code Reader that you use in the Video? ( Maxi Check MX80875 ). You have to activate/deactivate the nipples in some servo-assisted motor, in order to change the brake fluid/bleed the brake system. Thanks! From Tommy Bertilsson from Sweden
Zoe, what a gem. The ice junkies of the would would never buy an old Zoe EV to show people how "poor" old EVs are, because they're good. Instead they only target the poor old leaf which has a well known battery degradation issue.
Which brand/model of scanner do you use, I bought one that was supposed to work with the Zoe but it didn't. Some supposedly had the wrong resistor fitted on their PCBs but I checked it, it was correct, so would be interested in finding out what you use, thanks.
Another great video, perhaps if you could indicate the GOM range at 100% that would be good, does 11% degradation mean in reality 11% less range than when it was brand new?
GOM range is effected by so many factors, i.e. the drivers recent driving economy, I try to not concentrate on this too much as people tend to believe it too much. Obviously its something that is fluid. But yes, 11% degradation would mean 11% loss in range as battery is your fuel tank and it now has 11% less storage capacity. The reality is though that your day to day driving efficiency can vary more than this, so its not really noticeable in real world situations.
The highest 10 pct of of the charge contribute about 15 pct of the range The last 20 pct contribute about 5 pct of the range the curve pct charge to range is not at all linear
I feel that this is the kind of evidence that anyone buying a secondhand EV will be expecting to see before committing to buy. Every secondhand EV should come with a screen grab or printout of this data.
Hi reader. I could get an Renault Zoe 23.3kw zen from 2015, for 13k, tomorrow. But battery is now 7yo, and I don't know what to think about the life span of the battery. Would it be a good buy? Use another 2 or 3 years and sell with decent left over value?
You showed that all the cells were balanced, even after 7 years and 5800 miles. What would you expect if one cell was well out of balance, would it effect the range? I would really appreciate a comment. Thank you for your interesting videos.
I've sold about 450 EVs now and not yet seen a battery pack with dead cells. But this is a video worth watching in full ua-cam.com/video/Ws9Y1be8N-U/v-deo.html
@@GoGreenAutos Thank you for your reply it's much appreciated. The video link you sent is very enlightening and helps a lot. My second hand Leaf (UK) is a 2017 30kWh with only 16500 miles on the clock. Leafspy shows an out of balance due to one cell of 124mV, the rest are fine. SoH 94%. Thank you for your help I can now follow this up with Nissan.
Actually the pack would balance if you allow it to. The ballance charge happens at the end of the charge to full and takes a while. It does not matter much as long as the difference is not too high between cell.
Using fast chargers reduces battery life significantly. People who crow about how good the battery life is on their car tend to have a small run about which does mainly short trips to the shops and is slow charged over night at home. Using public chargers which charge the battery much quicker cause much greater degradation of the battery and because the car isn't on charge every night the battery gets deep cycled far more frequently.
@@garrycroft4215 I have to admit, EVs are coming along nicely but until there is more charging infrastructure and better battery technology I'm going to pass. I think in another 5 years we should see range around 500 miles for 'long range' models and costs more comparable say within +10 to 20% with ICE equivalents which is where I think most people will see no value in sticking with ICE cars.
In colder climates, EVs have heaters in their battery packs to keep the pack happy. However, in the UK that is required, so very few EVs have battery heaters.
Recommend that a higher capacity battery has a better cell balance. I guess a zoe of 2014 has only 22kwh and the newer one about 52kwh. Is there an active cell balancer in the zoe of 2014? The range is up from 4006 to 4017. I guess it's little bit to much. So can it balanc actively / has the bms transitors?
Highly likely your Zoe needs a BMS update then. Obviously predicted range is based on recent driving economy, but assuming you're driving reasonable efficiently, you should be in the 90+ miles.
All the Leaf & ENV200 batteries aren't great, due to the lack of active cooling. As a result, Nissan packs typically have three times the degradation of other EV batteries.
Bizzare that I had my battery SOC checked when my Zoe was only a year or so old and it was about 78%, years which I don’t trust as the car still performs as well as when it was new and is now 8.5 years old and has 63k miles on it.
The figure I’ve seen of most large ev owners is 8-9 years. But there are other factors like how the car is stored how the battery is used and maintained, distance driven. how many Fast charges has had. All have a positive and negative effect on the ev car that can make the battery last longer than 8-9 or less than. Even a battery health check isn’t 100% guarantee on how much life is left. Due to variables like age and how previously it’s been looked after and so on. Personally I’m sticking away from evs due for my usage and running budget it doesn’t make sense.
In germany you can request a real battery health check certificate which is usally done by a third party and actually tests the battery, that's why it takes several hours instead of beliving some numbers that the system reports. I would assume that you can request something like that in your country too, so always to that before buying a used car.
Hi, that battery health check isn't correct all batteries need to be check under load. They can read right voltage with no load. The voltage can drop off very quickly under heavy load. Total rubbish. Have a drive to Cornwall see how many charges you need. The Zoe only does 90 miles from new 11 percent is a lot.
Will have to send even more African. Children down the mines for collbat for the batteries. So mainly folk in south east can drive their EVs to feel better lol
Why don't you look up how much cobalt is in the battery in the phone or mobile you used to write this, then look up how much cobalt is in a Tesla Model 3/Y battery. PS. Its ZERO in the Tesla battery.
many dealers where i live wont give u a penny for your 5 year old electric car. they told me they have been burnt too many times. so once 5 years old you'll have trouble giving them away. teslas cost up to 30k for a new battery pack..utter waste of time unless u trade them in every 3 years.
Why dont you spend 5 mins on autotrader and look at the 5 year old EV's - they are not free are they,they have a good value and as for Tesla batterys failing that is a rare occurance, i suppose an engine has never failed in a ice vehicle ? how much are they new -fitted by a dealer. you keep paying £2 a litre its fine by me
@@pokerman111111111111 yeah. ok how about when it's 8 years old then my mums 1987 toyota corolla is still perfect and never had a single issue. how many battery packs u think it would take over 35 years lol. this ev malarky is a fad and will fade away. once 8 to 10 years old they will end up in scrap yards. i wouldn't give u a single penny for a 5 year old electric car. there are idiots out there that will buy any old shite. i'm not one of them.
@@pokerman111111111111 btw i have been driving since 1980 and driven close to 5 million miles. i have never had a motor fail on any car or van. some have gone over 500 000 miles issue free. no such thing as a free lunch in this world. where i live no dealers will give u a penny on any ev over 5 years old.. i know a lot of them and chat often with them. so your 100k tesla is worth nothing as a trade in lol. not here anyway. they have lost a lot of money on warranty claims. an ice can and will go for 30 years if oil changed regularly. batterys today have around 1000 charge cycles before you change them. any cash you think you've saved on fuel will be gone when u need a new battery pack. this fad will fade away soon. u mark my words.
@@isaachunt5799 i will not change your mind- you are scared of change ,thats ok but it happening anyway. you are too old now to change but thankfully the generations after you can see the benifits and know you are old,ignorant fool that will never see sense.
@@isaachunt5799 I have never had a battery fail on a tesla so it must NEVER happen according to your logic. i assume by your attitude to change your are over 60 years old.there were people like you when henry introduced the model T. My horse never breaks down,dobbin doesnt need petrol blah blah blah
lol when a tesla needs a new battery you have to scrap it lol. so any money saved on fuel will be gone when u send it off to be crushed lol. all i see with this ev crap is they will end up like phones. u sling them away when the battery is finished. just buy a kia picanto 1.0 if you want to get about cheaply.
Please provide proof of all these failing tesla batterys and scrapped tesla's.buy one or dont in a few years you will have no choice so please stfu.you spout nonsense and other ignorant fools believe it and spread it as truth. please spend 10 mins on google.
I bought a second hand 2017 Zoe ZE40 two years ago. The SOH was reading 93% then with 45,000 km on the clock. It is still reading 93% today at 70,000 km. I can still get about 290 km range out of it on a warm day. So impressed with my little car.
Doing what speed ???
@@hellopsp180 Oh, round town, not on the motorway. Does read a bit wrong, sorry.
Bought same as you for my wife, great little car, again, all town/city driving but she loves it
THE FIRST 10% DROP IS ALWAYS THE QUICKEST, THE NEXT 10 % USUALLY TAKES DOUBLE UNTIL THE DEG CURVE ALMOST GOES FLAT
@@hellopsp180 it's a city car 👍
I know of someone who bought a Zoe with the battery lease. His battery capacity was low. Renault did a series of updates to the battery management system. (BMS) and the range went up to almost its original distance. Which goes to show that there is more to the BMS than it seems. This was a 25kw battery.
Yes common issue. The original BMS software is buggy and when updated the battery gets reported properly. Early Zoe's on the original BMS software can show a battery SoH of about 60%, but with the update, the SoC will be around 85-95% depending on the state of the pack.
2015 Zoe here. 72.000km and SoH is at 98%.
Almost always charged at 1,7kW. Top speed on the motorway at a constant 70/80kph.
I have to say, trading my petrol car with an EV last year was one of the best decisions I made in my life. At current fuel prices my car will break even in 5 years or less!
Er no you won’t lol. Electric costs are going to sore over fossil fuels. :)
Just before you have to replace the batteries you Clown.
@Internet Research Agency 0,21€/kWh from my provider. About 4€ a full charge. 1/6th of what I would pay in petrol at 1,50€/L, before this whole 2€/L disaster unfolded this year.
its amazing. do you always charge 100% or 80-90?
@@coskun3735 If I am public charging I try to stop at 80%. When home charging it usually goes from 15/20% to over 90/95%, but that's because the car charges faster than I sleep.
I'm still figuring out how can I limit the charge to a lower maximum
We have two Zoe. The first one was bought new and is a ZE40 R110 2019 that has done 130 000km, now SoH is 92%. And mine ZE50 R135 2020 that I bought used in nov-2021 with 8 000km on the odometer and at 96% SoH. Now it has 43 000 on the odometer and still 96% SoH. But it is a difference in the SoH reading between the ZE40 and the ZE50. On the ZE40 it is temperature independent. Not so on the ZE50, in February (batt temp at -3 C) it read only 92% SoH but now when it is warm outside (batt temp at 20 C) it is at 96% SoH. All with CanZE.
Another great informative video Matt 👍👍
My Renault Zoe ZE 40 Q90 purchased new 5 years ago ( June 2017 ) has just done 60,000 miles and using CanZE to measure battery SOH says 90%
5 years ago when I first charged the car to 100% it would display 217 miles range ( using the two pedal reset method ) now if I charge to 100% it's showing 205 miles range again with a two pedal reset .
I had a 40 Q90i which I could charge at 22k/pH at home on my Garo 3phase charger! Current Zoe is a 50 135GT brilliant car I love them.
Excellent video. My Zoe did about 8,000 kms in it's first year so I have plenty of life on the battery.
Our 7 year old ZOE is perfectly fine too, we even bought the lease as we intend to keep it long term
Nice video Matt! Hope you are enjoying the Twizzy :) we still love our Black Zoe that we got from you, and in todays fuel crisis, it’s a life saver 😃😃
Black Zoe? I hate you! 😁
I saw a video a little while ago on a minicab in the Midlands. I don't remember the make or model but it had over 150,000 on the clock, on the original battery.
Just bought an 2018 R90 Zoe with 41kwh and 38000km on the odometer. Its 6½ years old and the battery health is 92%. Impressive.
This is a great service to the ev world in general.
Good to know, thanks for the post.
Hi Matt i think it might be worthwhile doing a video on how joe public can assess the battery health of popular second hand EV using tools/ tech that are low cost and easy to access as i dont ever see adverts from sellers describing this essential piece of information.
Cheers keep up spreading the knowledge its things we are all going to need to know.
I do offer a Renault scanner hire to owners of Renault Zoe & Kangoo electrics. See www.gogreenautos.co.uk/renault-scanner-hire
As for the video, it's a good idea. But I don't use the cheaper methods myself as I have the scanner that works on all vehicles. But I'll give it some thought and add it to my list of video ideas.
@@GoGreenAutos
Thanks for the reply Matt the two cars I consider viable at my price point are the Zoe and Seat Mini would the device work on both? Also I would try to visit several cars and pick the better vehicle looking at condition spec and battery health so it might be better to have use for a couple of days or even better have a single and software that can do multiple makes as the Ionia may also be in my sights plus the market for used EV is only going to improve.
@@anthonybrown4874 This device I rent out is for Renault vehicles only.
Running a used 2012 Kangoo ZE, 22 kWh battery for 10 months.
Almost same ev system as ZOE.
It odo at 80k km and a SOH at 75% is now 74% after another 10k km The numbers has ween watched closely and it differ up and down +- 1% depending on your driving style,temp conditions and charging habits.
I usually avoid charging extremes like full/empty and keep a low speed at long distances in order to extend distances. (Fast charging not present)
Speed is a major factor determining your available distance in EVs, more important than in fossil fuel engines.
For those of us considering buying an affordable used car, it would be useful to know what the actual driving range is at this age and mileage. With the seasonal mild weather, measuring now would provide a best case scenario. The main issue for used car buyers is whether the remaining battery range will be sufficient to make it practical to consider a used EV.
It's as easy as taking the percentage of degradation off the listed new range my 2018 leaf I recently sold had 94.3% SOH at 70,000 miles and 5% off 150 new range equalled around 12 miles lost which was exactly what I got on the road so 138 miles range. If you wanted to know what figures that equates to in winter it was around 110 with the heater on all day, summer would be around 150. Cheers
I have a similar Zoe, 1 year older and in winter months you get 65mi, and summer up to 90mi. Hope that helps.
Don't buy old zoe it's useless for most people because of awkward charging only the french could have come up with
@@laimonasrake8367 good thing awkward people get along just fine, and most people have to pay the fuel pump price 😆😆🤦♂️😖
@@laimonasrake8367 if home charging, most common with town run around car, I see no issues with the charging setup.
Our 64 Zoe with 59000 miles is still at 91%. We do stop start town driving and nearly always run the battery right down to 15 or fewer miles on the guess meter before charging. I don't know if that helps but that's our procedure.
The charge difference between modules is because they were not charged all the way to full to get balanced.
I would have expected a road test starting from full to almost empty, 90km/h as constant as possible, to see what the real difference is. Then compare that to same data gotten earlier. That percentage is not necessarily real life range.
I wish they still did this blue Renault logo on the new Zoe. Mine has got an basic chrome Renault logo like on all other Renaults
Renault did away with the blue badges a long time ago as they don't last long and the blue peels off. They changed thousands of Zoe badges under warranty with standard chrome ones. Zoes that weren't done just look tatty.
In France, the Renault warranty for batteries is 6 years.
Bought my Zoe R110 (50) on july 2020 and I'm pretty sure I'll still have a good capacity in 2 or more years...
There is a pretty large variance on battery health depending on how the car has been used and charged. If you have a car that does long trips and gets lots of quick charges the battery life will be severely reduced but one that is charged slowly over night and does mainly short trips around town will see much longer life. Again it is dependant on what you want the EV for how long the battery is going to last.
This is what gets repeated so many times, but in the real world, the reality is that rapid charging has no noticeable effect on EV batteries and the way the car is driven or charged has no noticeable differences either....that is on anything other than a Nissan Leaf. The only thing that can have a measurable negative effect on the battery is leaving it fully charged for long periods of time. That is why some low mileage EVs will have poorer battery packs than high mileage EVs.
@@GoGreenAutos Its true you should never leave the battery over 80% for any amount of time but fast charge does degrade the battery faster than slow overnight charging, that much is scientific fact. Although heating caused by fast charging can be dealt with which is why the leaf is garbage because they had no cooling in the battery at all, the high current of fast charging also has an impact on the cell chemistry. Now this is variable depending on how the batteries are designed but it does happen on all batteries to some extent and batteries that are frequently fast charged with always have less capacity than the same battery design that is slow charged. Also keeping a decent amount of charge on the battery at all times reduces wear on the battery considerably. Deep cycling degrades lithium cells quicker than anything.
Really, could you point us at the evidence for this so that we can study it?
Excellent video - Thank you!
I'd bet the SoH would show higher on a fully charged battery, I have a 2014 Zoe with 47k miles and it's showing 96% on CanZe
If you have a garage, if you can charge there, if your car does consistent uninterrupted journeys, if you do lot of off-peak driving, if its a warm day, I suppose you may do okay. If you dont have a garage, if you do short interrupted journeys, if you have to stop for hours getting recharged, if you have to stay warm in your car, if the local wind farm runs out of storage, I suppose you won't.
These owners will be from a middle class life & care planet wise, but they will have done the same usage as the rest of us overall give or take, so it's a fair review & they are all really happy, unlike us fuel car owners always grumpy with our car existence.
they are great EV. lot's of people looking for 2nd hand would do great with these.
Garbage in Portugal
Indeed Jeff. A decent used Zoe, along with an EV tariff such as EDF at 4.5p per kwh, or Octopus Go at 7.5p per kwh, could see your cost per mile at 1.5p or less.....
Wouldn't a 2014 Zoe be 8 years old now? Or was this video recorded a long time ago?
I've been using devices with batteries since 2007, it took me buying a battery-operating car to learn that I should always keep it between 20 and 80% (full charging only once a while) to preserve its life
Actually lithium ion batteries do not like being kept discharged too low or charged fully. Actually keeping those states does more harm than going there.
What you can't tell us is when it was BMS updated. And what SOC the car was at on average in the year it only did 3k miles all of those things are important in the SOH.
Good evidence that older EV batteries still provide a good SOC and health.
Thank you, very informative
ZE40 R110 made December 2018, done 28533 km, shows 95% SoH today.
Interesting report Matt... to make the point persuasive for ev doubters I need to somehow work out the percentage loss of performance in an equivalent mileage ice car. Any simple ideas on how on earth to do that from anyone would be greatly appreciated... I am a bit number blind though... 🤔 😆
Hello folks we are in 2023 , there is a Renault Zoe that have catch my eye , the year is 2017 with 70,000km on the clock . The battery health is 87% . Is it a good bargain . Especially if the battery already started to degrAde ? Or it will be a bother and a will have a lots to spend in the future ?
Any comments most welcome thx
My Zoe is from 2019 and i drove 50.000 km (31.000 miles) My SOC is 94%
But remember, the value doesn't say much. The problem is that the vehicle manufacturers do not disclose the algorithm! It can therefore not be compared with other vehicles and also among themselves it is not readily possible.
Also, the information is not necessarily based on measurements!
Exactly. That is an estimate. This is why a road test with a set speed, a given temperature would be compared to an earlier run and then see the real degradation.
Where can I find a tester like this?
My wife had a Zoe with a leased battery
At 62000 miles the range dropped off dramatically
The SOH read 94% with Renaults scan tool.
After a fight we managed to make a claim and the battery was replaced for us
The company that replaced it told us the SoH of the old battery was actually around 62% which made total sense with the range we had.
I’d take your test with a pinch of salt - it’s not accurate just as Renaults wasn’t accurate
Sounds normal for a main dealership to be pulling the wool over your eyes, unfortunately.
What you also describe sounds as if your Zoe just needed a BMS update, as batteries at 62-65% SoH is the tell tell sign.
@@GoGreenAutos I agree with you on the first part
I’d like to assume they did a BMS update as they had the car into the dealership on 4 separate occasions, trying to do anything they could to avoid putting a new battery in it.
Alas all failed and they paid for an independent garage to supply and fit the battery for us
After that, it’s range was the best we had ever seen
@@GoGreenAutos _"What you also describe sounds as if your Zoe just needed a BMS update,"_
Exactly my opinion.
The SOH reading is rather unreliable to my opinion.
I check and record the SOH and deltas of cell voltage every time when I charge my Zoe 2014 90kkm.
The SOH went from 98% down to 66% within about 2 years before BMS update and was at 98% after BMS update about 3 years ago.
Since then the SOH gradually went down to 81% and up again to 94% within a period of about a year and a half wtihout any intervention though which is very strange.
Therefore I concluded that this SOH reading has little to nothing to do with real battery health.
Most likely there are errors in the software calculating the SOH, at least for Renault Zoe.
The max cell voltage difference never exceeded the range between 5 to 20mV with one exception of 100mV
when I accidentally had discharged the battery below 0% about half a year ago because I reached the safing charging station with -13km due to defective or occupied stations.
I'm mostly charging with 2.3 kW from my solar roof and my charging and driving habits did not change at least during the last 4 years.
When reading this, I’m thinking that the BMS update is just a way to hide bad numbers of SoH.
@@brehme1971 Exactly that !!
You are assuming that battery degradation is linear, perhaps in a couple of years it just falls off a cliff...
Actually, all indications are that its the opposite and it slows down.
@@GoGreenAutos thanks for your reply, unfortunately I could say the same for my ebike battery!
@@robinmartini7968 The BMS for a lot of ebikes are rubbish.
so it used 18406 kwh for 94367km thats 19.5 for 100km thats so energy efficiant.................................
Good report. Do these batteries have thermal management?
Yes. All EVs do, apart from the Nissan Leaf and to an extent, the Nissan ENV200. The Zoe, like most, have forced air cooling and it uses the air conditioning system.
Hello! A big thanks! for a good Video. I wonder if it is possible to change the brake fluid on the Renault Zoe Year Model 2015-2019, with this Fault Code Reader that you use in the Video? ( Maxi Check MX80875 ). You have to activate/deactivate the nipples in some servo-assisted motor, in order to change the brake fluid/bleed the brake system. Thanks! From Tommy Bertilsson from Sweden
It does do standard brake fluid changes, but the Zoe has a different split system. So it will do a partial bleed but not the full system bleed.
Zoe, what a gem. The ice junkies of the would would never buy an old Zoe EV to show people how "poor" old EVs are, because they're good. Instead they only target the poor old leaf which has a well known battery degradation issue.
Which brand/model of scanner do you use, I bought one that was supposed to work with the Zoe but it didn't. Some supposedly had the wrong resistor fitted on their PCBs but I checked it, it was correct, so would be interested in finding out what you use, thanks.
I'm using an Autel MaxiCheck MX808TS
@@GoGreenAutos Thanks!
Another great video, perhaps if you could indicate the GOM range at 100% that would be good, does 11% degradation mean in reality 11% less range than when it was brand new?
GOM range is effected by so many factors, i.e. the drivers recent driving economy, I try to not concentrate on this too much as people tend to believe it too much. Obviously its something that is fluid. But yes, 11% degradation would mean 11% loss in range as battery is your fuel tank and it now has 11% less storage capacity. The reality is though that your day to day driving efficiency can vary more than this, so its not really noticeable in real world situations.
@@GoGreenAutos yes I understand, thank you
The highest 10 pct of of the charge contribute about 15 pct of the range
The last 20 pct contribute about 5 pct of the range the curve pct charge to range is not at all linear
I feel that this is the kind of evidence that anyone buying a secondhand EV will be expecting to see before committing to buy. Every secondhand EV should come with a screen grab or printout of this data.
Hi reader. I could get an Renault Zoe 23.3kw zen from 2015, for 13k, tomorrow. But battery is now 7yo, and I don't know what to think about the life span of the battery. Would it be a good buy? Use another 2 or 3 years and sell with decent left over value?
The batteries on these loose about 1% per year.
You showed that all the cells were balanced, even after 7 years and 5800 miles. What would you expect if one cell was well out of balance, would it effect the range? I would really appreciate a comment. Thank you for your interesting videos.
I've sold about 450 EVs now and not yet seen a battery pack with dead cells. But this is a video worth watching in full ua-cam.com/video/Ws9Y1be8N-U/v-deo.html
@@GoGreenAutos Thank you for your reply it's much appreciated. The video link you sent is very enlightening and helps a lot. My second hand Leaf (UK) is a 2017 30kWh with only 16500 miles on the clock. Leafspy shows an out of balance due to one cell of 124mV, the rest are fine. SoH 94%. Thank you for your help I can now follow this up with Nissan.
Actually the pack would balance if you allow it to. The ballance charge happens at the end of the charge to full and takes a while. It does not matter much as long as the difference is not too high between cell.
My 18 month old 12,000 miles BMW i3s is at 96% SOH. note it’s only been public charged.
Using fast chargers reduces battery life significantly. People who crow about how good the battery life is on their car tend to have a small run about which does mainly short trips to the shops and is slow charged over night at home. Using public chargers which charge the battery much quicker cause much greater degradation of the battery and because the car isn't on charge every night the battery gets deep cycled far more frequently.
@@schrodingerscat1863 that’s why I lease 😬
@@garrycroft4215 Yep, at a minimum battery lease is the way to go. Doesn't tend to look as favourable on the financials though comparing to ICE cars.
@@schrodingerscat1863 I’m done with ICE cars. Next up the Smart #1 or the MG 4 if it really does go 0-62 in 4 seconds.
@@garrycroft4215 I have to admit, EVs are coming along nicely but until there is more charging infrastructure and better battery technology I'm going to pass. I think in another 5 years we should see range around 500 miles for 'long range' models and costs more comparable say within +10 to 20% with ICE equivalents which is where I think most people will see no value in sticking with ICE cars.
But how would it last in a colder climate like here in Sweden that it can be minus 35 Celsus degrees in the winter?
In colder climates, EVs have heaters in their battery packs to keep the pack happy. However, in the UK that is required, so very few EVs have battery heaters.
@@GoGreenAutos heaters use W? to make heat.
Not bad for near enough 1000 battery cycles.
Recommend that a higher capacity battery has a better cell balance. I guess a zoe of 2014 has only 22kwh and the newer one about 52kwh. Is there an active cell balancer in the zoe of 2014? The range is up from 4006 to 4017. I guess it's little bit to much. So can it balanc actively / has the bms transitors?
Yes it does cell balancing when at 100% charged.
@@GoGreenAutos O.k. didn't sound much intelligent. But still a good health for a battery.
I’d be interested in how accurate the “reported range” is. Our 22Kw Zoe never shows more than 65miles of range.
Highly likely your Zoe needs a BMS update then. Obviously predicted range is based on recent driving economy, but assuming you're driving reasonable efficiently, you should be in the 90+ miles.
@@GoGreenAutos Thanks for the advice, I will investigate that.😀
@@wasbeen or just make reset, the batterie level goes up. the batterie level is a piece of sheet...
I’ve heard they have a Zoe now with one million km on it, make of that what you will.
4V cell at 75% is way to high,my xiaomi scoter is 4V at 96% so batery will last much longer
You can't compare a scooter battery with an electric car battery.
@@GoGreenAutos Cells are the same ,just car has more.
As far as I know the only batteries that lost big were fitted In the original leafs.
All the Leaf & ENV200 batteries aren't great, due to the lack of active cooling. As a result, Nissan packs typically have three times the degradation of other EV batteries.
Bizzare that I had my battery SOC checked when my Zoe was only a year or so old and it was about 78%, years which I don’t trust as the car still performs as well as when it was new and is now 8.5 years old and has 63k miles on it.
You car needs a BMS software update then. All Zoe's from up to about 2016 (from memory) need this as the original BMS was buggy.
@@GoGreenAutos That should have been done, but I don’t think the dealer did it.
The figure I’ve seen of most large ev owners is 8-9 years. But there are other factors like how the car is stored how the battery is used and maintained, distance driven. how many Fast charges has had. All have a positive and negative effect on the ev car that can make the battery last longer than 8-9 or less than. Even a battery health check isn’t 100% guarantee on how much life is left. Due to variables like age and how previously it’s been looked after and so on. Personally I’m sticking away from evs due for my usage and running budget it doesn’t make sense.
94 000km, my as 63000 km with 8 years, makes 140km
Very low mileage for a 7 year car. What would it look like with twice the mileage.
Still very good. Plenty of examples of high mileage EVs on this channel. Here's one for an example ua-cam.com/video/DfzOK6JeQZE/v-deo.html
A battery test needs to be done under load.
I have changed 2 batteries in 21 years.😒my range is 1000 miles🤪.
Audi a2 1.2 tdi with additional 40 liter tank🤩😍
But how much dangerously polluting petrol or diesel have you burnt?
@@GoGreenAutos everything is built with diesel also your remote exhaust car with poisoned chemical batteries.
I have 3 e-bikes and a very fuel sufficient diesel I only drive max 6000/year so my carbon footprint is very very low
Go green and make proxy wars to steel oil or chemicals is not the way
And diesel is so cheap these days!
Renault battery SOH info is about as accurate as throwing a Dart to the moon. Laughable.
And you know this because.....?
Because 8 years old 22kwh Zoes reporting 98% SOH while running out of juice after 60 miles is a joke.
In germany you can request a real battery health check certificate which is usally done by a third party and actually tests the battery, that's why it takes several hours instead of beliving some numbers that the system reports. I would assume that you can request something like that in your country too, so always to that before buying a used car.
Hi, that battery health check isn't correct all batteries need to be check under load. They can read right voltage with no load. The voltage can drop off very quickly under heavy load. Total rubbish. Have a drive to Cornwall see how many charges you need. The Zoe only does 90 miles from new 11 percent is a lot.
Will have to send even more African. Children down the mines for collbat for the batteries. So mainly folk in south east can drive their EVs to feel better lol
Why don't you look up how much cobalt is in the battery in the phone or mobile you used to write this, then look up how much cobalt is in a Tesla Model 3/Y battery.
PS. Its ZERO in the Tesla battery.
many dealers where i live wont give u a penny for your 5 year old electric car. they told me they have been burnt too many times.
so once 5 years old you'll have trouble giving them away. teslas cost up to 30k for a new battery pack..utter waste of time unless u trade them in every 3 years.
Why dont you spend 5 mins on autotrader and look at the 5 year old EV's - they are not free are they,they have a good value and as for Tesla batterys failing that is a rare occurance, i suppose an engine has never failed in a ice vehicle ? how much are they new -fitted by a dealer. you keep paying £2 a litre its fine by me
@@pokerman111111111111 yeah.
ok how about when it's 8 years old then
my mums 1987 toyota corolla is still perfect and never had a single issue.
how many battery packs u think it would take over 35 years lol.
this ev malarky is a fad and will fade away.
once 8 to 10 years old they will end up in scrap yards.
i wouldn't give u a single penny for a 5 year old electric car.
there are idiots out there that will buy any old shite.
i'm not one of them.
@@pokerman111111111111 btw i have been driving since 1980 and driven close to 5 million miles. i have never had a motor fail on any car or van. some have gone over 500 000 miles issue free.
no such thing as a free lunch in this world.
where i live no dealers will give u a penny on any ev over 5 years old.. i know a lot of them and chat often with them.
so your 100k tesla is worth nothing as a trade in lol. not here anyway. they have lost a lot of money on warranty claims.
an ice can and will go for 30 years if oil changed regularly. batterys today have around 1000 charge cycles before you change them.
any cash you think you've saved on fuel will be gone when u need a new battery pack.
this fad will fade away soon. u mark my words.
@@isaachunt5799 i will not change your mind- you are scared of change ,thats ok but it happening anyway. you are too old now to change but thankfully the generations after you can see the benifits and know you are old,ignorant fool that will never see sense.
@@isaachunt5799 I have never had a battery fail on a tesla so it must NEVER happen according to your logic. i assume by your attitude to change your are over 60 years old.there were people like you when henry introduced the model T. My horse never breaks down,dobbin doesnt need petrol blah blah blah
lol when a tesla needs a new battery you have to scrap it lol.
so any money saved on fuel will be gone when u send it off to be crushed lol.
all i see with this ev crap is they will end up like phones. u sling them away when the battery is finished.
just buy a kia picanto 1.0 if you want to get about cheaply.
Please provide proof of all these failing tesla batterys and scrapped tesla's.buy one or dont in a few years you will have no choice so please stfu.you spout nonsense and other ignorant fools believe it and spread it as truth. please spend 10 mins on google.
At end of life they will have another valuable life as a storage battery and then will be recycled.
@@deanfielding4411 and you scrap the car lol
@@isaachunt5799 no you just swap out the battery.
@@deanfielding4411 and the battery costs more then the car is worth rotfl.
30 000 usd for a battery lol