New Guard player here! Taking a small amount of Artillery, like 1 basilisk or Field Ordnance Battery, just to harass objective campers or put the last couple wounds on a nearly dead target has worked well for me. And having some large models in the back to prevent deepstrike has come up more than you would expect.
Mortars are also so worth a squad or two. The bases make for great small diorama, and big footprint for deepstrike prevention and honestly I've hardly ever lost them in a game. Really considering making up two more squads!
Thank you Auspex, I just recently got into 40k and your videos have been an extreme help for understanding this complex game. Succinct, straight forward and always a joy to watch. Cheers.
The guard took a massive hit on the indirect fire simply because we have so many units that do this compared to other factions, i ran artillery after the change and found running them up the gut with other tanks gave them their original stats as well as made them less of a target because at the end of the day, they want to shoot your commander/russ tanks leaving the artillery to still batter them
I like taking morter teams still, as they are not the worst thing to have. They don't lose ap cause no ap to start with, and plenty of shots. Not as good as they used to be but still usable I say.
Your enemy adds 1 to their armor saving throw, it's not your AP that gets worse. So no AP on Mortars doesn't mean your enemy doesn't benefit from better saves when fired upon indirectly.
I believe they should have a rule where forward teams/scouts that have LOS on what artillery will be shooting should get a +1 to bs. Like infiltrators/incursers/eliminator etc. Pretty easy to add IRL fluff
Just put the autocannon barrels in and field the hydra! It’s basically a one of auto include in all of my lists, it shreds marines and will almost 1 shot any aircraft as it enters the board on the opponent’s turn for a cp
I wouldn’t use these vids as a stable foundation of how to build a list. More often than not people find strats that aren’t so clear in the beginning. Play what you want and be the judge yourself.
@@rain6353 I'm all for playing what you enjoy but for more competitively focused lists the wyvern is statistically and tactically worse than a couple mortar squads. For an indirect unit focused on harassing back line light objective holders paying extra for a chimera body (to survive counter arty that you will almost never face) with significantly less shots and no ability to receive take aim is just not worth it. If you're playing a parking lot armored superiority list it could be arguable but in every other list it just seems lackluster. Also Auspex's channel is absolutely a suitable place for newer players to get competitive list building insight as he provides invaluable tips backed up by statistics which help prevent falling into GW's plastic crack noob traps
@@CatharsisChaser It's one thing to help noobs, it's another to have the wyvern assembled and ready to go but keep it on your shelf. I see all too often in these comments people complaining about what they already have and think it's useless because UA-cam told them so. Only then for someone in a GT a month later, with no real point changes, using X or Y unit in a way that wasn't covered by the usually VERY generalized information given in these vids. Don't get me wrong, I'm here for all his vids and find them quite informative before I get my hands on the updates myself, but it's quite sad to see people in every vid give up on models they own until the Internet tells them otherwise. Experiment with what you have in ways you may not have thought of, otherwise why even play? And by "you" I mean the general commenter, not you in particular, Catharsis lol.
oh don't worry - I still plan to use the Wyvern - even if it's underwhelming right now it still fulfills a role that my army needs (indirect fire). Besides, kits are expensive and I'm not throwing something away just because they're not meta.
I was already taking a pair of Basilisks. Think I’ll just count my Solar Auxilia models as Armageddon ones and take the points cut. The Carriages are only good because of they gained a keyword. By the time I buy, build and paint them, GW will probably remove the Keyword or raise the points so they’re worse than the regular Basilisk
Unless you're playing in a GW store, just pick up some World War II artillery models like a Long Tom. ... Even if you are, just put a Basilisk's gun on the Long Tom's carriage.
Guard artillery should be a legit threat, but not to the point where someone can spam them. All artillery should be used to get units that hide out of sight for most of the game, and should be balanced as such.
I really hope that GW adds the missing keywords to their forgeworld models in a later update or FAQ and not reinforce the feeling of FW being the red haired stepchild of the family.
@@loganb7059 yeah, I know, but that doesn't mean we should let it go too. Same with the Gorgon still being Legends, while having a model for sale on FW.
@@michaelritzen8138 I just checked and hilariously, there are a couple FW models that got “turret weapon.” The Thunderer and the Malcador Annihilator/Defender. On their HULL MOUNTED demolisher cannons. Makes perfect sense.
I think the real winner here is the Armagedion Basilisk. ok so it dosnt have Artillery, so it can't shoot out of sight, but for most games of 40K that is not a big ishue. Having one back up your armour will be a great choise.
I would like to point out that Victoria Miniatures makes an emplaced artillery piece that's plastic, not resin, dwarfs all other artillery pieces, and costs less than the FW Earthshaker. They even have a few resin and 3d printable upgrade pieces, too, so you can customize your emplaced artillery.
@@zeogzeog7525 It is properly packaged. It's a very nice kit. I bought two, have built one, put the gun shield on it, and bought some extra shells, a spade, an ammo crate, a pick... it's more diorama that game piece now. I happily recommend the kit to anyone who wants a huge artillery piece to terrify your opponent.
I am still adamant 3x3 mortars with take aim is still very good. it will mess with a lot of back field objective holders, since most tend to use their smalles and weakest units for it.
@@jackchan3235 Not in AoO, as you can have 6 HS slots. Also, Mortar teams aren't globally great, but they hard counter low-toughness armies something fierce.
All artillery can't play on WTC terrain imo (due to lot of dense). you have to -1 dense , and -1 indirect rule. Except Mortar that can use Finial to ignore dense and still hit on 4+. On the other terrain set up. Bombast , Basilisk Carriage seem strong.
It is so stupid to see that Arty does almost nothing, when in the books they destroy anything in there way, the -1 to hit in indirekt fire is ok but -1 AP is stupid, when you hit a tank from above it should give extra AP because it’s armor is worse and should do 3 DMG instead of 2, it is a 50+ kg shell and they want to tell us that it does as mutch DMG as an custodian Bolter on a stick?! Sorry but this is BS
You can't swing a stick on the usual sites without finding a gun carriage that will suit. I've seen people using Long Tom models (not entirely sure on scale) for proxies.
To me personally, removing the barrage exemption made all guard artillery just an auto ignore. 5+ to hit and minus 1 to their ap is *awful*. Why would I spend a hundred ish points on that when I could take a bigger tank? And I hate that because I really do like the guard artillery but I just find it's so feeble and unreliable with these changes. (especially unhappy about what they did to the Wyvern, at first I thought that loosing the re-roll wounds but gaining a little in stats might be a side-grade but no, in practice it is entirely a downgrade, there's no doubt in my mind having now used it.) The Armageddon Basilisk just being cheaper is pretty funny though annoying that it no longer gets it's better armour. Surprised you didn't cover the Minotaur, I guess it maybe didn't change but it's still the biggest artillery the Guard have.
Mass Artillery sounds really fun to play but I don't wanna bore my opponents. I played against a Mass Artillery Guard Army once and it was kinda boring compared to a typical 40k game
Nice to see that mortars are viable still. It seems to me that the ability to make Manticores/Basilisks close to viable is running them with Expert Bombadiers+Sharpshooters (re-roll + AP -1 stratagem) in order to cancel the affects of indirect fire. Maybe popping them out after softening up the enemy to be used as direct fire platforms. One things for sure: there is no way in hell am I going to pay 200 bucks for an Earthshaker carriage though
@@StevenZagaris it doesn’t make sense as arty in real world use forward observers and already established ranges on range cards to determine fire missions. So let’s forward 38,000 years, you are telling me with all this advance tech arty is only effective when an officer yells at arty? No that doesn’t tract using any logic.
@@StevenZagaris it doesn’t need to be 2+ they just shouldn’t take a penalty for not having LOS. The basilisk was fine how it was this change and the fact you can no longer take it in groups of three really detracts from the guard and their strategy.
Strange that the FOB's seem better purely by math hammer. I've brought them to several games and a couple tournaments and they've severely disappointed, especially for the points cost.
It's merely a testament to how bad Guard artillery currently is, except for mortar teams. Which is a shame, given that it's one of the main pillars of Guard aesthetic - it's as if GW said "guns plinking on heavy armor feels bad, so now Terminators move 3" and can't pass through Breachable terrain".
dumb thumbnail, the guard artillery is pretty much all a never take and worse except the mortar teams and FOBs and thats only with Take Aim babysitting.
![True Size of a Cadian Regiment [999.M41] 3D Documentary](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Vrnn2uOj6w/mqdefault.jpg)
The real artillery is round after round of Auspex Tactics hitting us with these near daily videos. Industrial efficiency, man
Slap me like I'm a subscribe button and call me a Kriegsman because I don't want to miss a single shell of this bombardment.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😍😍😍
What do you mean "near daily". Dude is literally putting out 2 videos most days 😅
Very real
For got to mention that you can now hide mortar teams under a Rogal Dorn
Not 100% sure the Dorn will be pleased when they fire
@@michaelsblyth who knows? Maybe that particular Dorn enjoys that sort of thing… 😉
Tactical Dorn air launch system.
New Guard player here! Taking a small amount of Artillery, like 1 basilisk or Field Ordnance Battery, just to harass objective campers or put the last couple wounds on a nearly dead target has worked well for me. And having some large models in the back to prevent deepstrike has come up more than you would expect.
This is the way. Artillery isn't meant to be a damage dealer, it's meant to do chip damage for those exact targets.
Good hunting, guarantee
Nonsense, moar artillery.
@@Admiral.Snakbar
Agreed
Mortars are also so worth a squad or two. The bases make for great small diorama, and big footprint for deepstrike prevention and honestly I've hardly ever lost them in a game. Really considering making up two more squads!
@@oblivionfan345Tony Maybe if you didn't bring enough artillery, it's not for damage-dealing.
heavy quad launchers, I feel, are awesome. It's 4d6 shots per model with a max of 3. 12d6 shots. Absolutely insane buffing potential there.
Thank you Auspex, I just recently got into 40k and your videos have been an extreme help for understanding this complex game. Succinct, straight forward and always a joy to watch. Cheers.
An Auspex vid discussing artillery? Que the 1812 Overture, that'll set the mood.
The guard took a massive hit on the indirect fire simply because we have so many units that do this compared to other factions, i ran artillery after the change and found running them up the gut with other tanks gave them their original stats as well as made them less of a target because at the end of the day, they want to shoot your commander/russ tanks leaving the artillery to still batter them
At least they now can get "Take Aim" so ruleswise they are the same than before and may fire directly to be vulnerable but even better
I’ve really always wanted to get some of the earth shaker carriages, and them getting platoon keyword really makes it hard to say no
I am really *really* glad I had the foresight to not glue in the Earthshaker Cannon platform on to my Basilisk.
Back to your roots. I remember back in the day your old videos it feels nostalgic to hear you talk about gaurd
I like taking morter teams still, as they are not the worst thing to have. They don't lose ap cause no ap to start with, and plenty of shots. Not as good as they used to be but still usable I say.
Your enemy adds 1 to their armor saving throw, it's not your AP that gets worse. So no AP on Mortars doesn't mean your enemy doesn't benefit from better saves when fired upon indirectly.
I'd love to see something like a spotter action like the Expert Bombardiers trait but at a longer range.
And have it count with Morters.
I believe they should have a rule where forward teams/scouts that have LOS on what artillery will be shooting should get a +1 to bs. Like infiltrators/incursers/eliminator etc. Pretty easy to add IRL fluff
They do if you take Expert Bombadiers
@@Cadiaforever astra? They have it for some crap unit for the SM but you still have to be within like 6".
@@Dave-zp3cl Yes for Astra Militarium Vox Caster unit of Sentinel in 12"
You're an ldlot
I really wanted a medusa armageddon but sided with a regular basilisk instead. I hope some day they up the profiles
FYI - Dataslate rule on indirect fire is +1 to saves against it, NOT reduce ap by 1, which makes a big difference to the mortar teams effectiveness
uhg Born Soldiers is too good. Weird complaint I know but id like to try the other options instead of being told "why would you pick anything else."
Go mostly mechanized and then it make sense to go Armored Superiority with Swift like the wind.
@@StevenZagaris Fair that was sort of my plan since I mainly have a steel legion force so lot of chimeras
I can see the Earthshaker battery being out of stock by tomorrow. Very good video!
Im still taking basi regardless of meta because I like Dawn of War🍷🗿
Just bought and assembled a Wyvern for my new Guard Army. Looks like I'll have to wait for the next round of balancing and hope it gets buffed then.
Just put the autocannon barrels in and field the hydra! It’s basically a one of auto include in all of my lists, it shreds marines and will almost 1 shot any aircraft as it enters the board on the opponent’s turn for a cp
I wouldn’t use these vids as a stable foundation of how to build a list. More often than not people find strats that aren’t so clear in the beginning. Play what you want and be the judge yourself.
@@rain6353 I'm all for playing what you enjoy but for more competitively focused lists the wyvern is statistically and tactically worse than a couple mortar squads. For an indirect unit focused on harassing back line light objective holders paying extra for a chimera body (to survive counter arty that you will almost never face) with significantly less shots and no ability to receive take aim is just not worth it. If you're playing a parking lot armored superiority list it could be arguable but in every other list it just seems lackluster. Also Auspex's channel is absolutely a suitable place for newer players to get competitive list building insight as he provides invaluable tips backed up by statistics which help prevent falling into GW's plastic crack noob traps
@@CatharsisChaser It's one thing to help noobs, it's another to have the wyvern assembled and ready to go but keep it on your shelf. I see all too often in these comments people complaining about what they already have and think it's useless because UA-cam told them so. Only then for someone in a GT a month later, with no real point changes, using X or Y unit in a way that wasn't covered by the usually VERY generalized information given in these vids.
Don't get me wrong, I'm here for all his vids and find them quite informative before I get my hands on the updates myself, but it's quite sad to see people in every vid give up on models they own until the Internet tells them otherwise. Experiment with what you have in ways you may not have thought of, otherwise why even play? And by "you" I mean the general commenter, not you in particular, Catharsis lol.
oh don't worry - I still plan to use the Wyvern - even if it's underwhelming right now it still fulfills a role that my army needs (indirect fire). Besides, kits are expensive and I'm not throwing something away just because they're not meta.
I was already taking a pair of Basilisks. Think I’ll just count my Solar Auxilia models as Armageddon ones and take the points cut. The Carriages are only good because of they gained a keyword. By the time I buy, build and paint them, GW will probably remove the Keyword or raise the points so they’re worse than the regular Basilisk
Unless you're playing in a GW store, just pick up some World War II artillery models like a Long Tom.
... Even if you are, just put a Basilisk's gun on the Long Tom's carriage.
The best mortar combo: Born Soldiers + Take Aim + Ingrained Precision and Overlapping Fields of Fire.
3cp on 1 unit of Mortars?
Great video thanks for sharing 👍🍻
Guard artillery should be a legit threat, but not to the point where someone can spam them. All artillery should be used to get units that hide out of sight for most of the game, and should be balanced as such.
My unimaginative creeping barrage tactics may work now.
I always wanted mass artillery but I think it would be so boring to play against
Yes but imagine their face as you just set out more and more artillery on the table. “You’re playing 40K. I’m playing battleship.”
what if you run infrantry squads with mortars alongside earthshaker carriges?
I really hope that GW adds the missing keywords to their forgeworld models in a later update or FAQ and not reinforce the feeling of FW being the red haired stepchild of the family.
Considering “turret weapon” was suspiciously absent from the update for all FW imperial guard tanks, I doubt it was accidental.
@@loganb7059 yeah, I know, but that doesn't mean we should let it go too. Same with the Gorgon still being Legends, while having a model for sale on FW.
@@michaelritzen8138 I just checked and hilariously, there are a couple FW models that got “turret weapon.” The Thunderer and the Malcador Annihilator/Defender. On their HULL MOUNTED demolisher cannons. Makes perfect sense.
Appreciate your effort mate 👍
I think the real winner here is the Armagedion Basilisk. ok so it dosnt have Artillery, so it can't shoot out of sight, but for most games of 40K that is not a big ishue. Having one back up your armour will be a great choise.
Earthshaker cannon is great artillery again?!
*Krieger heavy gasmask breathing noises*
I would like to point out that Victoria Miniatures makes an emplaced artillery piece that's plastic, not resin, dwarfs all other artillery pieces, and costs less than the FW Earthshaker. They even have a few resin and 3d printable upgrade pieces, too, so you can customize your emplaced artillery.
Looks like they also package it in plastic safely so it's not bent to hell with packaging and shipping forgeworld style.
@@zeogzeog7525 It is properly packaged. It's a very nice kit. I bought two, have built one, put the gun shield on it, and bought some extra shells, a spade, an ammo crate, a pick... it's more diorama that game piece now. I happily recommend the kit to anyone who wants a huge artillery piece to terrify your opponent.
Hi, quick question: does the math hammer analysis take into account that when you bring a field ordinance battery that you get 2 models in the unit?
Yes. Thats why he wrote 2d6 shots in the stat comparison
@@BerenMace ah, for sure m thanks dude! I'm a new player, and the part about getting two of them had me confused just the other day 😅
Can make the Field ordnance S8 with creed as well
I really want to run the earth shaker batteries but they’re so expensive! Does anyone know of another big gun for proxy? Maybe from ww1 or 2?
Long Tom.
What about the Minotaur?
Does anything change about it that might be relevant?
I am still adamant 3x3 mortars with take aim is still very good. it will mess with a lot of back field objective holders, since most tend to use their smalles and weakest units for it.
With sticky objectives from troops this won’t matter as much unfortunately. Great for finishing off a near dead unit though.
@@roflololoolol only SM troops get sticky.
Won't that take up all your heavy support slots?
@@jackchan3235 Not in AoO, as you can have 6 HS slots. Also, Mortar teams aren't globally great, but they hard counter low-toughness armies something fierce.
I have earthshakers and the update is nice
Know what I need for my death korps army
All artillery can't play on WTC terrain imo (due to lot of dense). you have to -1 dense , and -1 indirect rule.
Except Mortar that can use Finial to ignore dense and still hit on 4+.
On the other terrain set up. Bombast , Basilisk Carriage seem strong.
So to quote best artillery piece for guards:
SHATTER THEIR SKY!
well they clearly forgot some keywords so i think this will get a fast rework.
It is so stupid to see that Arty does almost nothing, when in the books they destroy anything in there way, the -1 to hit in indirekt fire is ok but -1 AP is stupid, when you hit a tank from above it should give extra AP because it’s armor is worse and should do 3 DMG instead of 2, it is a 50+ kg shell and they want to tell us that it does as mutch DMG as an custodian Bolter on a stick?! Sorry but this is BS
comment for the Skull Throne
corn don't surf
Anyone know how tall the artillery earthquake cannon is or what 3D print might be a good stand in? Looking to make a fun themed artillery army
You can't swing a stick on the usual sites without finding a gun carriage that will suit.
I've seen people using Long Tom models (not entirely sure on scale) for proxies.
I used German sFH 18 models and they look really close. Can’t remember the scale off the too if my head but should be an easy Google.
What’s with Guard losing barrage but keeping indirect? Is that just intrinsic to the rules or something?
To me personally, removing the barrage exemption made all guard artillery just an auto ignore. 5+ to hit and minus 1 to their ap is *awful*. Why would I spend a hundred ish points on that when I could take a bigger tank? And I hate that because I really do like the guard artillery but I just find it's so feeble and unreliable with these changes. (especially unhappy about what they did to the Wyvern, at first I thought that loosing the re-roll wounds but gaining a little in stats might be a side-grade but no, in practice it is entirely a downgrade, there's no doubt in my mind having now used it.) The Armageddon Basilisk just being cheaper is pretty funny though annoying that it no longer gets it's better armour. Surprised you didn't cover the Minotaur, I guess it maybe didn't change but it's still the biggest artillery the Guard have.
Bingo. Outside of Mortar Teams/Bomblasts the artillery stays at home. For me, what they did to Malcadors was worse.
guys i mean come on we are talking of weapons tha might kill 1 marine per turn? GW just doesnt want indirect fire right now...
Mass Artillery sounds really fun to play but I don't wanna bore my opponents. I played against a Mass Artillery Guard Army once and it was kinda boring compared to a typical 40k game
I have a genuine question? Why would anyone take a manticore over a Basilisk? I just can't work out what I'm missing
HOWITZERS!
Nice to see that mortars are viable still. It seems to me that the ability to make Manticores/Basilisks close to viable is running them with Expert Bombadiers+Sharpshooters (re-roll + AP -1 stratagem) in order to cancel the affects of indirect fire. Maybe popping them out after softening up the enemy to be used as direct fire platforms. One things for sure: there is no way in hell am I going to pay 200 bucks for an Earthshaker carriage though
why the hell are Heavy Artillery Carriage with Earth Shaker Cannon's £95.50? I love the model but can't ever justify the price.
Need earthshaker carriages.. hmm
So they ruined arty. That’s great now we need LOS or we take a to hit penalty? Takes away the fun of arty.
take aim cancels it out and it makes sense, otherwise we'd be hitting on 2s when they're in LOS with take aim.
@@StevenZagaris it doesn’t make sense as arty in real world use forward observers and already established ranges on range cards to determine fire missions. So let’s forward 38,000 years, you are telling me with all this advance tech arty is only effective when an officer yells at arty? No that doesn’t tract using any logic.
@@SpaceDebris15 bro we have demons fighting space dwarfs. Anything is possible but the idea of 2+ arty is just OP
@@StevenZagaris it doesn’t need to be 2+ they just shouldn’t take a penalty for not having LOS. The basilisk was fine how it was this change and the fact you can no longer take it in groups of three really detracts from the guard and their strategy.
Strange that the FOB's seem better purely by math hammer. I've brought them to several games and a couple tournaments and they've severely disappointed, especially for the points cost.
It's merely a testament to how bad Guard artillery currently is, except for mortar teams. Which is a shame, given that it's one of the main pillars of Guard aesthetic - it's as if GW said "guns plinking on heavy armor feels bad, so now Terminators move 3" and can't pass through Breachable terrain".
Just take more tanks tbh. Even if it is better than most artillery, they all suck compared to barebones leman russ.
I'm so glad you don't kiss majorkill's butt.
He's a douchebag and you're way better than him ❤️
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@@foxx1111 your mother
Second ;)
dumb thumbnail, the guard artillery is pretty much all a never take and worse except the mortar teams and FOBs and thats only with Take Aim babysitting.
Death strike: " Am I a joke to you?"