If Spider-Man TAS never changed the background on the suit, we would've never gotten: "GET BACK HERE SHOCKER!... SHOOOOOOCCCCKKKER!!!! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME! I'LL CHASE YOU TO ENDS OF THE EAAAAAARRTTTTHHHH!!!"
My favorite moment with the symbiote happened in another Spider-Man TV series The Spectacular Spider-Man where Batroc The Leaper was caught by Spider-Man (in the symbiote costume) stealing money from a bank... Batroc got his ASS KICKED so badly he tried to pay Spider-Man with the stolen money to stop beating him HAHAHAHA. Batroc as he was being hauled away by police begins yelling GET ME OFF THE STREET AND BEHIND BARS anything to save me from Spider-Man HA!
I love how Raimi's Peter has no idea how to be cool and naturally neither does the symbiote, so that's why he acts like a cringy doofus... more true to life than a lot of comic book fans want to admit.
@@lucasopercoup no he’s absolutely right Raimi has even commented on it. He said it was equal parts Peter not knowing how a cool bad boy was supposed to act and him thumbing his nose at Sony for forcing him to include Venom, a character he had no interest in adapting.
Speaking of Peters emotional outbursts, I remember when the Symbiote and Parker finally had a heart to heart conversation. Peter was quick to lash out emotionally and attack the costume while the costume seized him and calmly said how aggressive and hateful he can be. Peter actually reflected on this and realized he overstepped on his judgement.
@@Facade953 This sounds like something written many years after the original symbiote stories. What he described never happened during the original alien costume issues.
@@jhornacek Well in the original comics Venom never had a conversation with Peter. Venom only had a voice to communicate after Venom and Eddie mixed memories and personalities. We never actually got Venoms individual thoughts until years down the line... Also It happened after Venom and Peter had to remerge (after Venom became close with Eddie). Venom explained how his race dont have culture or individual thoughts. They are the accumulation of the hosts ideals, personalities and culture. They bring their thoughts back to the Hive mind and adapt all their knowledge together with the rest of the symbiotes to learn how to live with the rest of the universe. Venom was different as he got disconnected from the Hive knowledge and mind. So he was like a blank slate/baby all over again. 100% of everything he knew was the memories, personality, and experiences of Peter. During this time period Peter was becoming an angry selfloathing, abusive person which that bonded to Venom. He corrupted Venom and over time and various hosts Venom was able to learn, make his own judgements and gain more experience. He like any other intelligent being is able to compartmentalize his emotions, feelings, and memories and move forward. So essentialy Venom felt like a unappreciated lover who was thrown away and abused. Became a scorned lover who wanted revenge but eventually moved on to someone who actually cares, loves, and appreciates it.
One thing people forget is Peter is a wise cracking New Yorker. Imagine having the mindset of " Hey! I'm a superhero! Nobody knows who I am!" and getting away with pissing off a lot of people. This is Peter before the costume got on him. Now imagine this- The Symbiote knows Peters mindset, occasional emotional outbursts and more. Now imagine how it felt being rejected, hurt and betrayed then sharing very intimate knowledge with someone who truly hated him! No wonder Venom went out of his way to make Peter miserable. He was playing him at his own game and he clearly couldn't take it.
I'm of the generation that grew up with that cartoon and it kind of became the template for all my spidey lore knowledge, so I totally see why it became a generally accepted thing for creators that also grew up with the cartoon. Funny how it somehow works in retrospect with the original story now. Also, happy Symbrock day! =P
I like the way it tends to get played in the Venom titles as opposed to the Spider-Man titles, where it was a two way street and they effected each other's attitudes. That element was mostly brought in to improve Venom's redemption arc (by reminding us that Peter and Eddie were both often kinda dicks well before they ever met Venom.) It made for more interesting storylines, especially during the Flash Thompson era, having his struggle with alcoholism be a major subplot at the same time as he's in this weird codependent relationship with Venom that is pseudo-intoxicating to both of them.
When you actually think about it Venoms origin began in November 1963 with Fantastic Four #20 which was the origin of Molecule Man. The accident that gave Owen Reece his powers, poked a hole into the reality where the Beyonders live, which brought our reality to their notice, eventually brought the one called The Beyonder into our reality, which eventually lead to The Beyonder, gathering superheroes and villains, destroying a galaxy and making Battle World from scraps of planets in that galaxy. On one of those scraps was the machine that was holding the symbiote captive and so on.
It is amazing how retroactive storytelling can work in comics, TAS always left this Bittersweet realization that peter and the symbiote would always be linked in some way, and think that has translated well into the venom and spiderman have to fight carnage stories, but I would like a "for old time sake" history where spidey merges with the symbiote once again during a time or just an arc to contrast how much have they (both peter and the symbiote) grown
Reading these in real time, there was a period of a few months when Reed was keeping the black costume in a sealed glass jar in the Baxter Building, after initially separating it from Peter with his sonic gun. Some time afterwards, right at the end of one of John Byrne's Fantastic Four issues, we see a tiny mysterious flying device sneak into the Baxter Building, and drill a small hole in the glass jar, through which the alien entity then escapes into the night. What happened to the alien immediately afterwards, and who sent the mysterious flying device? I can't recall if I ever found out, but if so, I've forgotten it now. Groovy video BTW. A real gasser. I dig it the most.
@@Regfife I got obsessed I mean, curious, about it, so I dug around a bit, and now recall having read a 2010 continuity implant titled "Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four" #2, in which Dr. Doom's foster-son Kristoff was established to have sent the miniature flying "probe" which drilled the hole in the symbiote's cage. "The Fall of the Hulks: Alpha" #1, also published in 2010, fits into continuity a little later, according to the Marvel Chronology Project, at least, but I've not read it myself. The continuity implants don't really "fit" or work out logically, however. FF #274, Amazing Spider-Man #261, and SM/FF #2 all show the same probe-drilling&alien-freeing event, which took place in Jan. 1985 (publication date) continuity. Then in Apr. 1985's Web of Spider-Man #1, Peter finally separates himself from the alien costume using the church bells, but there is still no Venom idea in the works at this point, and the alien seems to die. Right after that is where the Fall of the Hulks: Alpha #1 is inserted. It isn't until 1988 that the costume gets retconned and resurrected as Venom. Continuity-wise, I always thought Byrne had something else in mind for that tiny probe, but he left Marvel for DC in 1986, and I think he took that story idea with him. By the time he got back all his abandoned story lines had long since been taken over by other writers, and he never made much effort towards picking up the threads. C'est la vie, and I do like Christos Gage who wrote the 4 part SM/FF series, but a lot of that later continuity patchwork really didn't fit IMO. Oh well I'm just a grouchy old fart :)
You may fall down rabbit holes but you always climb back out and keep us informed, I appreciate that.The Beyonder likes to watch, so many jokes so little time.
In the new movie, Venom is more like the Hulk in the way he climbed buildings smashing the walls just like Hulk in the "Hulk, smash!" scene in the Avengers. The fact that they even make fun of the name "Lethal Protector" in the movie kind of shows that Venom (and Carnage and the rest) are all kind of stuck in the 90s.
Its also since they havent really seen spiderman so if i get super strong all of a sudden moving around by shooting a string of web or symbiote wouldnt be my first thought. Leaps and climbing all day.
@@Javierm0n0 He uses his tendrils to fetch things or lift things all the time, so why go smashy-smashy on buildings over just pulling himself up. I mean, the concept of a grappling hook type thing is hardly brand new. So clearly it's an artistic choice, not a plot related choice and it's a bit silly.
Loved the cover with the two costumes fighting over Peter. While it wasn’t draw by him, it looked very Ditko inspired. The Venom Symbiote is a classic spousal abuser. Think about it. Does who knows what while you’re asleep, has boundary issues, ramps up the aggression at even the hint of rejection. Then, when it is rejected, stalks with even more aggression, starting the whole “if I can’t have you no one else can” behavior. Marvel really turned some corners in the 90’s. Crop-tops notwithstanding.
@@blackrazer22 To this day, that scene still makes for the most memorable showdown between Venom and Spidey. Not only its rather clever and iconic, starting a personality trait for the symbiote that stood around to these days (that sorta toxic relation it has with its others), but its also unintencionally hilarious. It just that is all played so seriously while the two of them are standing in their undies in the middle of a beach. It was so bizarre.
I feel like venom was just feeling Peter's anger and desires, and basically amplified them. People get upset all the time, but some days you just can't take it anymore and cut loose a little.
I like that this concept from the 90s cartoon bled back into the comics. But what if Peter's Angry Outbursts were disassociative? That he was angry at the things going on in his life at the time, and rather than it being the direct cause of the symbiote but an indirect result of the power up? Prior to becoming Spider-man, he wanted to show the people who made fun of him what he will do one day. After the bite he got an ego boost and powers to feed it. He doubled down on carring only about himself. After the death of Uncle Ben, he truly learns about power and responsibility. The benefits of the black suit upped his confidence and ego so when things didn't go his way he would snap like he used to, but because he he feels he can't do anything even with the new suit powers it makes him agnrier. So he is more extreme because the suit isn't enough, and thinks that his change in attitude isn't his fault but the suits. And now the suit would feel hurt by Peter for not being enough and being seen as the source for his upped anger.
More so, in the original comics, before they came up with “Venom,” Peter gets rid of the suit and the suit is revealed to have never felt anything before Peter but before it “dies” it saves Peter’s life
In the "Spectacular Spider-Man" tv series, they use aspects of both the cartoon and the original story with the taking over his personality aspect remaining from the cartoon, and the "suit wearing him" aspect from the comics.
As a kid reading Spidey comics in the early 90's, the Venom stuff was super exciting. Regardless of what has been done with the character since then, they can't take that away from me.
I read the original run back when it was published, and I liked the way it 'ended'. After the symbiote escaped the Baxter Building, it found and re-attached to Peter, who then tried to go back to the Fantastic Four to get it removed again. So there is a hilarious sequence of Spider-Man fighting his own suit as he tries to cross town, until he gets to the bell tower. Then there is the nice, "I'd rather die than be a slave!" bit until Peter collapses because the sound of the bell is hurting him too. The symbiote detaches and leaves, but then comes back and drags Peter to safety, before disintegrating on panel from the sonic damage it was taking. The narration explained that the creature was a symbiote, not a parasite. It gained something from Peter. Empathy, the concept of self sacrifice, being a hero. I thought that was beautiful in its own way.
@@jhornacek I learned a long time ago to not get too attached to characters and stories. Sooner or later a new crew comes in and changes everything you liked. I try to just remember the good ones. Like that movie Highlander, that never had any sequels, because that would be dumb. There could be only one.
Sasha, your enthusiasm for random things(like croptops...), and constantly going down rabbit holes absolutely is one reason (okay... is it two? Three?) why I tune in. I was in junior high when the black suit/symbiote was introduced, and I loved it. I got into (yelling) arguments with two other kids in art class at least three times.
I always thought that comic book writers heard the song Back in Black by ACDC and got so obsessed with it they did it with every superhero who didn't initially wear black.
I liked Spectacular Spider-Man's telling of the story because it combined elements of the og comics and the 90's tv show. My fav moment is when the suit takes over and decides to fight the Sinister Six. Peter as a character was going through stuff at the time so his behavior changing wasn't just the suit's fault, in this telling the suit is simply encouraging the parts of Peter that were already there rather than a dark transformation. In this way the suit acts like a toxic relationship, it comes into Peter's life when he is vulnerable and becomes the only "person" he can be totally honest with and rely on as his life gets worse but his dependency on those aspects means Peter can't see how it poisons him with all his worst aspects.
Good vid! I was there from the beginning! I have the OG Secret Wars and also the run of Spider-Man with the black costume. I was somewhat amused by the continuous ret-conning involved with Venom. I plan to see the movie tonight or tomorrow night. I do think that perhaps Venom has been overstated somewhat, but it fits with the direction that Marvel was taking at the time, with the rise of Deadpool, and the Ultimate Universe. There was an exaggeration of overblown characters proliferating, not just with Marvel, but also in DC's Lobo, and other things like Spawn and Faust. Venom and his ilk fit in perfectly with that new comics zeitgeist, and are certainly entertaining enough for me to have gotten over how much comics changed in those years. I look forward to seeing the new film and his future involvement with the MCU!
The black costume is like the tan Wolvie costume for me. I grew up with both so they are my costumes of choice. I like the look. More like a spider how often hide in dark places. It doesn't ultimately matter I suppose, but seeing either of those costumes in a book makes me all warm in my tum tum. It is like seeing an old friend.
i thougt thay the title was "The VENOM "Everybody" Forgets!" and ended up watching the whole video. i did already know, but i cant resist this channel! is just great!
Nice hair! The 90s series really defined spiderman for a generation and even the comics going forward. 90s spiderman comics couldn't have been further from the tv form yet gave so many that dive point where they became nerds of the story. At least that was me trying to find out where the clone series took place in regards to the 90s penultimate arc.
I like the way they handled the personality shift in Spectacular Spider-Man. He was being an ass to his friends, nearly kills Doc Oc while the symbiote was autopiloting him. It was well done.
@@INFERNO95 True. I just think Spectacular Spider-Man did a bit of a better job in how it shows the symbiote affecting Peter’s judgement and his personal relationships.
The best part of the Venom arc in Spec was that as the episodes went on, the black Spidey suit became more and more Venom-like. In one episode you could see the ridges from the original red/blue costume. In the next episode they were faint. In the next episode they were gone.
Let's be honest if in the comics Peter and the Suit had gone to Professor X or some other telepath for couples counseling they would have been the best team in the universe...Pete would have enjoyed the cynomon roll the suit can be and Venom could have learned to respect boundries...theyll be happy powerful...and probably evolve into a new design with time
I've never been a Venom fan. The best take I've seen on Venom and the black costume was in The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series (the definitive animated Spidey) which handled it really well. So much better than the clumsy and soap opera-esque Spider-Man TAS.
With Spider-Man TAS being my intro to the Spiderverse I had always assumed the increased aggression was just the way it was from the start. Still love it. Also go down the Retro figure rabbit hole it's a wonderful hole.
Big fan of Venom, which includes of course the symbiote and Eddie but also Flash as well and think they are the best thing to come out of Marvel. Since Venom is at their best when they're (anti)heroes IMO (which is most of Eddie's "life" as a character) I DESPISE this change in adaptions as it makes it harder to transition to when Venom is at their best and reduces the symbiote to a one note evil personality. Instead of the complex wanting to be a hero one but not getting humanity one.
I love the weird things that characters are sometimes just good at. Like how Felicia/Black Cat could make a perfectly fitting exact replica of Peter's suit or that she was apparently a better Photographer than he was.
Spectacular spider-man must get tired of taking all these wins, it had the best black suit arc! The way the suit started out like his spider-man 3 suit black suit (normal just black) , but gradually the spider logo grew and the webs vanished, how his attitude slowly changed but not to straight up evil, AND it kept the symbiote fighting in Peter's sleep! Ah so good! Still the 90s suit vs symbiote dream can't be beaten
Avi Arad was the producer who forced Venom into Spider-Man 3. He is also credited for coming up with the story of the episode that introduced the symbiot in the 90s series. Explains why Raimi's black suit acts more like 90s suit than the comic version.
4:24 Yeah in the comics the symbiote just attached itself to him and went out and did things while he was asleep making Peter even more tired than before he went to sleep.
The What If comic spiders shadow rules! Both versions have pros and cons. With the original comic story the suit is still technically a danger to him and the reveal of Venom does pack a punch because there was no hint of this more sadistic nature. Its funny when you realize they literally stumbled into making a perfect villain.
Two things worth noting are that Eddie Brock was not a character who had existed before he showed up in ASM300. He was a retcon to the Sin Eater storyline which he was not actually in. And second, during the period when Peter had the Black Costume he was being royally messed with by Black Cat's bad luck powers and some of that has been applied retroactively to the costume
Thank you for this! It's amazing what memory bleed can do. I knew that the symbiote took spidey's powers with and it and I remember the conversations (Brocks original appearance and the 90's run) where Brock mentions to the symbiote he gets his powers from pumping iron even if the symbiote doesn't. But that meaning the suit DOESN'T super juke up everyone who touches it mjolnir style kinda...slips my mind. Think they went with the IS STEROIDS MODE recently. To address the last question: Love Venom. Particularly the Lethal Enforcer and Maximum Carnage era stuff (ohhh man, so 90's! Much edge!) and even down with a planet of symbiotes. NOT a fan of Flash Thompson/Mac Gargan Venom era onward. Nor do I care for the SYMBIOTE GOD WOOOOOO stuff that popped out. Damn you, Dan Abnett! Note: I have no idea of Abnett wrote any of that but its very much in his style. He done my boy Darkhawk dirty with power amp and twists that are actually shallow and go no where.
I kinda like Venom, but I've not really experienced much of the character outside of the mainstream. I'm more of a Ghost Rider fan, so when binging on GR stuff I did stumbled upon the Venom: Circle of Four crossover with Venom, Ghost Rider, Red Hulk and X-23. The 3-way mash-up at the end was pretty awesome in my opinion. Would love for you to cover that arc (and more GR in general) on the channel.
I liked Venom when Flash was wearing the suit and was a space knight. I liked the idea that the whole time they were supposed to be a good character and that's why Venom kept dipping into hero actions instead of being an outright bad guy.
Flash was the best Venom imo. Even though the Space Knight run wasn't well written the lore and backstory of the Klyntar was really interesting and I was disappointed it was all just thrown away when Knull was introduced.
But Venom wasn't a bad guy when it was Brock either. Both Venom and Spidey were superheores doing superhero stuf. They just hated each other, so they were also each other's villains. (Until Maximum Carnage.)
@@davidwuhrer6704 Venom wasn't exactly heroic even before the events of Maximum Carnage though. It was during Lethal protector where he truly tried to do good.
@@davidwuhrer6704 Venom (as Brock) killed many people, and wanted to kill Peter. So not sure how this is him not being "a bad guy". It was only when Marvel realized how popular Venom was that they tried to turn him from a villain to an anti-hero. He started with the whole "protecting the innocent" credo and hoped the readers would forget all of the people he needlessly killed in his early appearances.
I was always under the impression that I the comics the the symbiote don't affect the wearer but the other way around where they are effected and formed personality wise by thier wearers, especially thier first one. This was kinda shown when they retconned that during infinity war Deadpool actually tried on the symbiote before returning it to where Peter found it.
Having read the black costume saga more than once, there were two noteable side-effects that they worked in at the time. 1) Peter was often more exhausted than usual, because when he went to sleep, the costume would glom onto him and go out using his unconscious body as a frame to continue webslinging (it's not certain if it was targeting victims and fighting, but it would certainly have been in character for it to do so). 2) Peter dropped out of college explicitly against Aunt May's wishes, and frankly probably contrary to his own desires. This is where the whole 'irritable and selfish' thing started in the source material. It was VERY underplayed, and could very well have been at least half-overlooked, or written as character development independent of the suit itself.
He didn't dance like an idiot back then, but if you really want to see a comic in which spider-man dances like an idiot, there's always Spider-Man/Deadpool #4
The black suit saga is one of those things that remains an iconic part of Spidey lore to this day and it's interesting on how it affected Peter. Personally, I find the adaptations like in the 90s animated series and Spider-man 3 to be easier to follow because if you're following the comics, it can become a daunting task with how many issues there are to read.
Spider-Man TAS has always been my main source of information especially before discovering channels like this one Comicstorian, Variant, and whatever else so anytime my siblings ask me about some Spidey character that they see in a movie I always just try and remember what happened in the cartoon and I'm like "in the 90s series this, this, and this happened" there's few Spidey comics I've actually read, I'm more of a DC fan so I'm way more knowledgeable on DC since that's what I've read, so yeah 90s Spidey and UA-cam teaches me all I know about Spidey mostly.
I literally watched the first season last week for the first time since childhood. Between this show and X-Men TAS (as well as their awesome theme music), childhood was awesome. Only thing better was Batman TAS.
It's great to know that the 90s animated series greatly contributed to the lore by conceptualizing the negative personality effects of Venom symbiote. Funny how it went full circle and the comics ended up being the last piece of media to retroactively add that in. I just always thought the comics initially had that to some extent.
I have to check but I think as early as What If? #4(from volume 2) they were retconning the suit was taking over Peter all along. That comic came out just a year after Venom was introduced
I used to have that run of Secret Wars and the Spidey with the black suit. I really liked that black suit and was kind of disappointed when he went back to the original suit and made the suit into Venom. I wonder how many times the artists not liking drawing things effected the plots of the stories?
This might be too much of an ask, but it would be cool to see a video on Venom as a character. I know some people really love the character (and hated both versions of him in the movies because of how he was changed) but I never understood the appeal and seeing a history of type video as a kind of in, would be really cool
Talking about the SMTAS i actually have a fair few of those dvd sets if the arcs including the venom and daredevil arc's it's actually what introduced me to daredevil and made me a fan of him and kingpin cause of the "approximately 2% of my body mass is fat allow me to demonstrate what 350 pounds of muscle can do" line was badass
Love the black suit Spidey look. So sleek, so clean. By far my favorite superhero outfit in all of comics. I think both Spider-Man:TAS and Spider-Man 3 way overdo the personality shift. It also bugs me, because when people talk about the symbiote, you can tell how much they don't consider the comics to be the ultimate canon or that important at all. An unwelcome reminder. Venom was great pre-lethal protector. I didn't read lethal protector, but I much prefer the concept of Venom as a villain with a weird code, narrow goal, and complete lack of awareness than an anti-hero (or anti-villain). There's too many anti-heroes. Also, I've never enjoyed the other symbiotes, especially Carnage, so Venom's proximity to these characters kept me away.
The TAS animated series is the thing that got me into superhero comics. To this day, that universe (Earth-92131) is the one I default to (even over Earth-616, which is the official 'primary continuity'). Not as in "Earth-616 isn't canon", but rather like "Earth-616 happens/happened in an alternate universe". Even if I'm not, my fandom is "native" to Earth-92131.
I did not know that the attitude change was created by the animated seires. I was too young to read the books. So the animated series and Flare cards were my bridge from the cool comic art I had seen, and the story behind them.
I read bits and pieces of Secret Wars, where Peter first gets the suit, as a kid and have always been curious if it's worth going back and reading in trade or not. I'd be interested in your thoughts if this becomes a thread you keep wanting to pull at.
The actual Secret Wars maxi-series doesn't really contains a lot about the symbiote. Peter doesn't get it until issue #8 so there's only 4 more issues left. And most of those issues are about Doom and the battles. If you really want to learn about the symbiote during that time, the Saga of the Alien Costume trade paperback (ASM #252-259) has the most information.
I’m a fan of both Spidey’s Classic Suit and his Symbiote Suit. It was just nice to see Spider-Man in a alternate suit like how many other characters get alternate costumes. I remember growing up reading a lot of Spider-Man comics watching the cartoons. Venom is my favorite Spider-Man villain. I just think in modern comics it’s hard to know what was originally cannon due to all the diversity in the multi-verse. But that’s why when I read comics I mostly read the original source material like from the Golden Age, Silver Age and some Bronze Age. I’m not much of a fan of a lot of current modern day comics.
I never cared for how Peter acquired the symbiote in the comics and I thought that part was handled better in the animated series. However, I preferred the comic's take that the symbiote actually cared for Peter and wanted to stay with him without trying to take him over. Also, it's just hard to believe that a big science nerd like Peter would not have immediately had questions about the *alien* costume. Come on, Ben and May raised him to be smarter than that.
Well he technically didn't have it at first because he thought it was just a suit he got during secret wars it wasn't until the symbiote started becoming more active that peter was ok somethings not right which most people would lol
@@davantebarbain3216 yeah. But what BGood is saying is there is no way that Peter would have this morphing suit that enhances his aspects, but wouldn't be intrigued and want to study it to see how it works.
@@unigenius what im saying is that it makes sense that he wouldn't suspect anything at first because 2 things first his spider sense never went off about the suit and as stated with so much going on in his life he saw it as something not to look to deep into as it seemed like a good thing during a hard time which is understandable
I kinda prefer the original take that it didn't alter him, just cause I like the suit a lot and didn't want it to be villainized. But I can see how the changes make sense at least. I do love they're exploring it again atm, cause the 80's is my favorite Spider-Man era. Though mostly because Peter was just in his tighty whities a lot of the issues since he didn't wear much under the suit, which definitely needs to be reflected more today in the current series, for accuracy sake lol
Im surprised u didnt mention Spectacular spiderman since like that series had a mixture of both the original reason (the suit possesing peters body) and the new one (where he gets angrier and being influenced by the suit itself) for why he needed to get rid of the suit, which both blending in just seems seemless.
I was aware that Peter was never altered in the comics by the Symbiote's presence, but that it did basically wear him at night to go out swinging while he was asleep. And credit to the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series, for going back to that, in the episode, "Group Therapy", where Peter falls asleep and the Symbiote takes him out to fight the Sinister Six. That being said, I do get why alternate forms have shown Peter's personality being altered, the whole point of it being to hammer the point home of, "OO-OO-OO-OO-oo-oo-oo, I'm alien goo and I'm EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-VIL-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L". Venom...always been a big fan...but I recognize that he's been criminally overused...especially in the 90s, when there was hardly a comic book he didn't make at least ONE appearance in. Because if there's one thing Marvel, historically, has always been guilty of, it's that they've NEVER met a success story that they won't shamelessly milk to powder. Just ask Gwen Stacy or Jean Grey. I mean, for crying out loud, they've brought Jean Grey back to life so many times, just to kill her again (because you know, it worked just so gosh-darn good that FIRST time), that the act, itself, has completely lost all meaning. But I digress. The ongoing deluge of Venom mini-series didn't help matters. With each story being helmed by a different creative team, it made for some pretty loose continuity. And on top of that, it just caused Marvel to run out of ideas for him that much faster. It all just went downhill from there. The final Venom story where he gets partial amnesia and forgets that Peter Parker is Spider-Man was bad enough. But then they released that story, "The Hunger", which, although actually offering up an interesting explanation as to why the Symbiote has always been attracted to Spider-Man, COMPLETELY contradicted everything (and I do mean, EVERYTHING) we knew about Venom up to that point. I could give you a complete list, but...God, it's just so painful. The bottom line is, it would take almost 20 years before Venom would even BEGIN to get his groove back. And even now, he's still not where he was, back in the day. At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
I like what they did with Venom, but I loved it when the introduced the black costume to Spiderman in Secret Wars, because so many superhero costumes (including Spiderman's) look so hokey. I even bought that action figure when it came out, only to try to later make it into the character Deathurge.
I love the current symbiote storyline, it's adding so much to characters I've wanted more stories of since that cartoon. Also there's no way thats a crop it looks like a normal - spitscereal.jpg
I like Venom but his lore is a bit over-written. He just feels a little silly when he goes from what amounts to Bizarro Spider-Man to a cosmic level hero.
Venom is one of my favorite comic characters and I really liked everything through Agent Venom. Lately I hate how all of Venom’s stories need to tie back to Null and Carnage. Can we not get a story where Cletus either stays dead or imprisoned please?
Marvel actually used the poor reception of the black suit to smooth over a license issue for the transformers comics they were making at the time. They wanted to crossover with Spider-Man to help boost the popularity of the newer series, but worried about putting Spider-Man in a hasbro property since the toy rights to the web-head belonged to Mattel. They got away with putting spider man in transformers #3 by including him in his “less well known” black suit.
If Spider-Man TAS never changed the background on the suit, we would've never gotten:
"GET BACK HERE SHOCKER!... SHOOOOOOCCCCKKKER!!!! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME! I'LL CHASE YOU TO ENDS OF THE EAAAAAARRTTTTHHHH!!!"
a line they re-purposed in the episode when MJ disappeared, when he screamed after Osborne.
Some might say that was overdone, but that was definitely a memorable line for me. I thought the actor did a good job.
My favorite moment with the symbiote happened in another Spider-Man TV series The Spectacular Spider-Man where Batroc The Leaper was caught by Spider-Man (in the symbiote costume) stealing money from a bank... Batroc got his ASS KICKED so badly he tried to pay Spider-Man with the stolen money to stop beating him HAHAHAHA. Batroc as he was being hauled away by police begins yelling GET ME OFF THE STREET AND BEHIND BARS anything to save me from Spider-Man HA!
I quote that scene way more than I should
“The check’s in the mail, baby!” Lol All good stuff! Lol
I love how Raimi's Peter has no idea how to be cool and naturally neither does the symbiote, so that's why he acts like a cringy doofus... more true to life than a lot of comic book fans want to admit.
You're giving too much credit and it feels made up. It was bad. There's nothing good about Raimis Peter ahaha
I always thought it was supposed to parallel the "rain drops are falling on my head" scene from Spider-Man 2.
Hey now what your saying resembles me too much
@@lucasopercoup Wtf are you saying
@@lucasopercoup no he’s absolutely right Raimi has even commented on it. He said it was equal parts Peter not knowing how a cool bad boy was supposed to act and him thumbing his nose at Sony for forcing him to include Venom, a character he had no interest in adapting.
"He's not like other vampires--he has SUCC ARMS!"
Vore the Character.
Thats what made him a .....Suck-cess ! ....sorry couldnt resist ...lol
But does he have a stand?
Speaking of Peters emotional outbursts, I remember when the Symbiote and Parker finally had a heart to heart conversation. Peter was quick to lash out emotionally and attack the costume while the costume seized him and calmly said how aggressive and hateful he can be. Peter actually reflected on this and realized he overstepped on his judgement.
What was the name and number of the comic book?
@@Facade953 This sounds like something written many years after the original symbiote stories. What he described never happened during the original alien costume issues.
Be was tbinking Arby's
@@jhornacek Well in the original comics Venom never had a conversation with Peter. Venom only had a voice to communicate after Venom and Eddie mixed memories and personalities. We never actually got Venoms individual thoughts until years down the line...
Also It happened after Venom and Peter had to remerge (after Venom became close with Eddie). Venom explained how his race dont have culture or individual thoughts. They are the accumulation of the hosts ideals, personalities and culture. They bring their thoughts back to the Hive mind and adapt all their knowledge together with the rest of the symbiotes to learn how to live with the rest of the universe.
Venom was different as he got disconnected from the Hive knowledge and mind. So he was like a blank slate/baby all over again. 100% of everything he knew was the memories, personality, and experiences of Peter. During this time period Peter was becoming an angry selfloathing, abusive person which that bonded to Venom. He corrupted Venom and over time and various hosts Venom was able to learn, make his own judgements and gain more experience. He like any other intelligent being is able to compartmentalize his emotions, feelings, and memories and move forward.
So essentialy Venom felt like a unappreciated lover who was thrown away and abused. Became a scorned lover who wanted revenge but eventually moved on to someone who actually cares, loves, and appreciates it.
@@SubzeroBlack68 Also went through a hoe phase
One thing people forget is Peter is a wise cracking New Yorker. Imagine having the mindset of " Hey! I'm a superhero! Nobody knows who I am!" and getting away with pissing off a lot of people. This is Peter before the costume got on him. Now imagine this- The Symbiote knows Peters mindset, occasional emotional outbursts and more. Now imagine how it felt being rejected, hurt and betrayed then sharing very intimate knowledge with someone who truly hated him! No wonder Venom went out of his way to make Peter miserable. He was playing him at his own game and he clearly couldn't take it.
I'm of the generation that grew up with that cartoon and it kind of became the template for all my spidey lore knowledge, so I totally see why it became a generally accepted thing for creators that also grew up with the cartoon. Funny how it somehow works in retrospect with the original story now. Also, happy Symbrock day! =P
Same growing up on it 90s Spidey is my main source of knowledge aside from these occasional UA-cam videos
I like the way it tends to get played in the Venom titles as opposed to the Spider-Man titles, where it was a two way street and they effected each other's attitudes. That element was mostly brought in to improve Venom's redemption arc (by reminding us that Peter and Eddie were both often kinda dicks well before they ever met Venom.) It made for more interesting storylines, especially during the Flash Thompson era, having his struggle with alcoholism be a major subplot at the same time as he's in this weird codependent relationship with Venom that is pseudo-intoxicating to both of them.
Always useful to learn the difference between Comic and Movies/Series.
When you actually think about it Venoms origin began in November 1963 with Fantastic Four #20 which was the origin of Molecule Man. The accident that gave Owen Reece his powers, poked a hole into the reality where the Beyonders live, which brought our reality to their notice, eventually brought the one called The Beyonder into our reality, which eventually lead to The Beyonder, gathering superheroes and villains, destroying a galaxy and making Battle World from scraps of planets in that galaxy. On one of those scraps was the machine that was holding the symbiote captive and so on.
"Crop top 🎶The top is cropped.🎶"😅 Great point Sasha.👏🏾👏🏾
It is amazing how retroactive storytelling can work in comics, TAS always left this Bittersweet realization that peter and the symbiote would always be linked in some way, and think that has translated well into the venom and spiderman have to fight carnage stories, but I would like a "for old time sake" history where spidey merges with the symbiote once again during a time or just an arc to contrast how much have they (both peter and the symbiote) grown
Peter bonds with the symbiote in Go Down Swinging.
Reading these in real time, there was a period of a few months when Reed was keeping the black costume in a sealed glass jar in the Baxter Building, after initially separating it from Peter with his sonic gun. Some time afterwards, right at the end of one of John Byrne's Fantastic Four issues, we see a tiny mysterious flying device sneak into the Baxter Building, and drill a small hole in the glass jar, through which the alien entity then escapes into the night. What happened to the alien immediately afterwards, and who sent the mysterious flying device? I can't recall if I ever found out, but if so, I've forgotten it now.
Groovy video BTW. A real gasser. I dig it the most.
The "Fall of the Hulks" storyline hinted that it was the Leader and his cohorts that released the symbiote as part of a long-term strategy.
@@Regfife I got obsessed I mean, curious, about it, so I dug around a bit, and now recall having read a 2010 continuity implant titled "Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four" #2, in which Dr. Doom's foster-son Kristoff was established to have sent the miniature flying "probe" which drilled the hole in the symbiote's cage. "The Fall of the Hulks: Alpha" #1, also published in 2010, fits into continuity a little later, according to the Marvel Chronology Project, at least, but I've not read it myself. The continuity implants don't really "fit" or work out logically, however. FF #274, Amazing Spider-Man #261, and SM/FF #2 all show the same probe-drilling&alien-freeing event, which took place in Jan. 1985 (publication date) continuity. Then in Apr. 1985's Web of Spider-Man #1, Peter finally separates himself from the alien costume using the church bells, but there is still no Venom idea in the works at this point, and the alien seems to die. Right after that is where the Fall of the Hulks: Alpha #1 is inserted. It isn't until 1988 that the costume gets retconned and resurrected as Venom.
Continuity-wise, I always thought Byrne had something else in mind for that tiny probe, but he left Marvel for DC in 1986, and I think he took that story idea with him. By the time he got back all his abandoned story lines had long since been taken over by other writers, and he never made much effort towards picking up the threads. C'est la vie, and I do like Christos Gage who wrote the 4 part SM/FF series, but a lot of that later continuity patchwork really didn't fit IMO. Oh well I'm just a grouchy old fart :)
You may fall down rabbit holes but you always climb back out and keep us informed, I appreciate that.The Beyonder likes to watch, so many jokes so little time.
I love how the bottom of Casually's "hair" blends in to her crop-top; it is a very graphic image.
"Greg "I'll Trace That O-Face" Lands 😂😂😂
"SHOCKER, SHOCKER, SHOCKER!!!!!" Never gets old.
In the new movie, Venom is more like the Hulk in the way he climbed buildings smashing the walls just like Hulk in the "Hulk, smash!" scene in the Avengers. The fact that they even make fun of the name "Lethal Protector" in the movie kind of shows that Venom (and Carnage and the rest) are all kind of stuck in the 90s.
Its also since they havent really seen spiderman so if i get super strong all of a sudden moving around by shooting a string of web or symbiote wouldnt be my first thought. Leaps and climbing all day.
@@Javierm0n0 He uses his tendrils to fetch things or lift things all the time, so why go smashy-smashy on buildings over just pulling himself up. I mean, the concept of a grappling hook type thing is hardly brand new. So clearly it's an artistic choice, not a plot related choice and it's a bit silly.
@@andrewshandle which is venom's thing
Loved the cover with the two costumes fighting over Peter. While it wasn’t draw by him, it looked very Ditko inspired.
The Venom Symbiote is a classic spousal abuser. Think about it. Does who knows what while you’re asleep, has boundary issues, ramps up the aggression at even the hint of rejection. Then, when it is rejected, stalks with even more aggression, starting the whole “if I can’t have you no one else can” behavior. Marvel really turned some corners in the 90’s. Crop-tops notwithstanding.
In a later issue when fighting Venom, Peter realizes that the symbiote loves him and uses that against Eddie and the symbiote.
Damn, that hits really well
Venom stalking Peter by moving away from New York all the way to San Francisco.
@@blackrazer22 To this day, that scene still makes for the most memorable showdown between Venom and Spidey. Not only its rather clever and iconic, starting a personality trait for the symbiote that stood around to these days (that sorta toxic relation it has with its others), but its also unintencionally hilarious. It just that is all played so seriously while the two of them are standing in their undies in the middle of a beach. It was so bizarre.
"I'll trace that 'oh' face" Land 😆
You're funny!
I saw that and I was like "He still gets jobs?!?"
Venom was bad ass in separation anxiety.
*gasp and points* that was the name of the thing! You said it!
I feel like venom was just feeling Peter's anger and desires, and basically amplified them. People get upset all the time, but some days you just can't take it anymore and cut loose a little.
I like that this concept from the 90s cartoon bled back into the comics. But what if Peter's Angry Outbursts were disassociative? That he was angry at the things going on in his life at the time, and rather than it being the direct cause of the symbiote but an indirect result of the power up? Prior to becoming Spider-man, he wanted to show the people who made fun of him what he will do one day. After the bite he got an ego boost and powers to feed it. He doubled down on carring only about himself. After the death of Uncle Ben, he truly learns about power and responsibility. The benefits of the black suit upped his confidence and ego so when things didn't go his way he would snap like he used to, but because he he feels he can't do anything even with the new suit powers it makes him agnrier. So he is more extreme because the suit isn't enough, and thinks that his change in attitude isn't his fault but the suits. And now the suit would feel hurt by Peter for not being enough and being seen as the source for his upped anger.
"Greg 'I'll trace that O-Face' Land."
There's only one Sasha. ♥♥♥♥♥
Greg "I'll trace that O-Face" Land !!
BWAHAHAHAHA! Perfection!
More so, in the original comics, before they came up with “Venom,” Peter gets rid of the suit and the suit is revealed to have never felt anything before Peter but before it “dies” it saves Peter’s life
My favorite recent venom addition is that either Eddie or flash refused to let him use the symbiote again because his anger infected it the last time
In the "Spectacular Spider-Man" tv series, they use aspects of both the cartoon and the original story with the taking over his personality aspect remaining from the cartoon, and the "suit wearing him" aspect from the comics.
As a kid reading Spidey comics in the early 90's, the Venom stuff was super exciting. Regardless of what has been done with the character since then, they can't take that away from me.
Thanks for this one, I collected all the “Black Costume” books from secret wars to lethal protector. One of my favorite arcs.
The quick Greg Land dig gave me so much life
I read the original run back when it was published, and I liked the way it 'ended'. After the symbiote escaped the Baxter Building, it found and re-attached to Peter, who then tried to go back to the Fantastic Four to get it removed again. So there is a hilarious sequence of Spider-Man fighting his own suit as he tries to cross town, until he gets to the bell tower. Then there is the nice, "I'd rather die than be a slave!" bit until Peter collapses because the sound of the bell is hurting him too. The symbiote detaches and leaves, but then comes back and drags Peter to safety, before disintegrating on panel from the sonic damage it was taking. The narration explained that the creature was a symbiote, not a parasite. It gained something from Peter. Empathy, the concept of self sacrifice, being a hero.
I thought that was beautiful in its own way.
Then David Micheline ruined that story's ending by bring the symbiote back and ignoring the empathy that it had learned.
@@jhornacek I learned a long time ago to not get too attached to characters and stories. Sooner or later a new crew comes in and changes everything you liked. I try to just remember the good ones. Like that movie Highlander, that never had any sequels, because that would be dumb. There could be only one.
Sasha, your enthusiasm for random things(like croptops...), and constantly going down rabbit holes absolutely is one reason (okay... is it two? Three?) why I tune in.
I was in junior high when the black suit/symbiote was introduced, and I loved it. I got into (yelling) arguments with two other kids in art class at least three times.
A Peter Parker/Venom odd couple comic like in the Venom movies may as well be made. The symbiote was in 'love' with him after all.
I always thought that comic book writers heard the song Back in Black by ACDC and got so obsessed with it they did it with every superhero who didn't initially wear black.
I liked Spectacular Spider-Man's telling of the story because it combined elements of the og comics and the 90's tv show. My fav moment is when the suit takes over and decides to fight the Sinister Six. Peter as a character was going through stuff at the time so his behavior changing wasn't just the suit's fault, in this telling the suit is simply encouraging the parts of Peter that were already there rather than a dark transformation. In this way the suit acts like a toxic relationship, it comes into Peter's life when he is vulnerable and becomes the only "person" he can be totally honest with and rely on as his life gets worse but his dependency on those aspects means Peter can't see how it poisons him with all his worst aspects.
Good vid! I was there from the beginning! I have the OG Secret Wars and also the run of Spider-Man with the black costume. I was somewhat amused by the continuous ret-conning involved with Venom. I plan to see the movie tonight or tomorrow night. I do think that perhaps Venom has been overstated somewhat, but it fits with the direction that Marvel was taking at the time, with the rise of Deadpool, and the Ultimate Universe. There was an exaggeration of overblown characters proliferating, not just with Marvel, but also in DC's Lobo, and other things like Spawn and Faust. Venom and his ilk fit in perfectly with that new comics zeitgeist, and are certainly entertaining enough for me to have gotten over how much comics changed in those years. I look forward to seeing the new film and his future involvement with the MCU!
Was 15 when the black costume debuted and absolutely loved it. Was so bummed out when it turned out to be a parasite.
The black costume is like the tan Wolvie costume for me. I grew up with both so they are my costumes of choice. I like the look. More like a spider how often hide in dark places. It doesn't ultimately matter I suppose, but seeing either of those costumes in a book makes me all warm in my tum tum. It is like seeing an old friend.
Spider-Man: Blind dates are like the lottery. The odds are so stacked against you. You're lucky if you ever hit the jackpot.
MJ has entered chat :p
i thougt thay the title was "The VENOM "Everybody" Forgets!" and ended up watching the whole video. i did already know, but i cant resist this channel! is just great!
Nice hair! The 90s series really defined spiderman for a generation and even the comics going forward. 90s spiderman comics couldn't have been further from the tv form yet gave so many that dive point where they became nerds of the story. At least that was me trying to find out where the clone series took place in regards to the 90s penultimate arc.
Lmao, the 🎼 crop top bop 🎶 That was adorable.
I like the way they handled the personality shift in Spectacular Spider-Man. He was being an ass to his friends, nearly kills Doc Oc while the symbiote was autopiloting him. It was well done.
The 90s show did the samething.
@@INFERNO95 True. I just think Spectacular Spider-Man did a bit of a better job in how it shows the symbiote affecting Peter’s judgement and his personal relationships.
The best part of the Venom arc in Spec was that as the episodes went on, the black Spidey suit became more and more Venom-like. In one episode you could see the ridges from the original red/blue costume. In the next episode they were faint. In the next episode they were gone.
Let's be honest if in the comics Peter and the Suit had gone to Professor X or some other telepath for couples counseling they would have been the best team in the universe...Pete would have enjoyed the cynomon roll the suit can be and Venom could have learned to respect boundries...theyll be happy powerful...and probably evolve into a new design with time
As far as I know, the 90's series (like most older Marvel animated series) has only had a limited complete series release in the UK.
This is one of the best examples of something changing to fit the movies/show and the change actually being for the better.
I've never been a Venom fan. The best take I've seen on Venom and the black costume was in The Spectacular Spider-Man animated series (the definitive animated Spidey) which handled it really well. So much better than the clumsy and soap opera-esque Spider-Man TAS.
With Spider-Man TAS being my intro to the Spiderverse I had always assumed the increased aggression was just the way it was from the start. Still love it. Also go down the Retro figure rabbit hole it's a wonderful hole.
Big fan of Venom, which includes of course the symbiote and Eddie but also Flash as well and think they are the best thing to come out of Marvel. Since Venom is at their best when they're (anti)heroes IMO (which is most of Eddie's "life" as a character) I DESPISE this change in adaptions as it makes it harder to transition to when Venom is at their best and reduces the symbiote to a one note evil personality. Instead of the complex wanting to be a hero one but not getting humanity one.
I love the weird things that characters are sometimes just good at. Like how Felicia/Black Cat could make a perfectly fitting exact replica of Peter's suit or that she was apparently a better Photographer than he was.
Spectacular spider-man must get tired of taking all these wins, it had the best black suit arc!
The way the suit started out like his spider-man 3 suit black suit (normal just black) , but gradually the spider logo grew and the webs vanished, how his attitude slowly changed but not to straight up evil, AND it kept the symbiote fighting in Peter's sleep! Ah so good!
Still the 90s suit vs symbiote dream can't be beaten
What you said reminded of the premise of Web of Shadows.
Avi Arad was the producer who forced Venom into Spider-Man 3. He is also credited for coming up with the story of the episode that introduced the symbiot in the 90s series. Explains why Raimi's black suit acts more like 90s suit than the comic version.
This was an awesome review of Venom history.
4:24 Yeah in the comics the symbiote just attached itself to him and went out and did things while he was asleep making Peter even more tired than before he went to sleep.
The What If comic spiders shadow rules! Both versions have pros and cons. With the original comic story the suit is still technically a danger to him and the reveal of Venom does pack a punch because there was no hint of this more sadistic nature. Its funny when you realize they literally stumbled into making a perfect villain.
I remember Peter had issues with the webshooters being in a different place. Even after switching back.
Two things worth noting are that Eddie Brock was not a character who had existed before he showed up in ASM300. He was a retcon to the Sin Eater storyline which he was not actually in. And second, during the period when Peter had the Black Costume he was being royally messed with by Black Cat's bad luck powers and some of that has been applied retroactively to the costume
I was very surprised when I learnt Morbius doesn't have those palm-suckers.
Thank you for this! It's amazing what memory bleed can do. I knew that the symbiote took spidey's powers with and it and I remember the conversations (Brocks original appearance and the 90's run) where Brock mentions to the symbiote he gets his powers from pumping iron even if the symbiote doesn't.
But that meaning the suit DOESN'T super juke up everyone who touches it mjolnir style kinda...slips my mind. Think they went with the IS STEROIDS MODE recently.
To address the last question: Love Venom. Particularly the Lethal Enforcer and Maximum Carnage era stuff (ohhh man, so 90's! Much edge!) and even down with a planet of symbiotes.
NOT a fan of Flash Thompson/Mac Gargan Venom era onward. Nor do I care for the SYMBIOTE GOD WOOOOOO stuff that popped out. Damn you, Dan Abnett! Note: I have no idea of Abnett wrote any of that but its very much in his style. He done my boy Darkhawk dirty with power amp and twists that are actually shallow and go no where.
I want more Venom personally, especially after King in Black
I kinda like Venom, but I've not really experienced much of the character outside of the mainstream.
I'm more of a Ghost Rider fan, so when binging on GR stuff I did stumbled upon the Venom: Circle of Four crossover with Venom, Ghost Rider, Red Hulk and X-23. The 3-way mash-up at the end was pretty awesome in my opinion. Would love for you to cover that arc (and more GR in general) on the channel.
shocker must have nightmare about the suit in the TSA Spiderman
"Also, then he would have to go talk to Reed" = A+ burn. Love catching the Mister Fantastic side eye in your vids!!
I liked Venom when Flash was wearing the suit and was a space knight. I liked the idea that the whole time they were supposed to be a good character and that's why Venom kept dipping into hero actions instead of being an outright bad guy.
Flash was the best Venom imo. Even though the Space Knight run wasn't well written the lore and backstory of the Klyntar was really interesting and I was disappointed it was all just thrown away when Knull was introduced.
But Venom wasn't a bad guy when it was Brock either. Both Venom and Spidey were superheores doing superhero stuf. They just hated each other, so they were also each other's villains. (Until Maximum Carnage.)
@@davidwuhrer6704 Venom wasn't exactly heroic even before the events of Maximum Carnage though. It was during Lethal protector where he truly tried to do good.
@@davidwuhrer6704 Venom (as Brock) killed many people, and wanted to kill Peter. So not sure how this is him not being "a bad guy".
It was only when Marvel realized how popular Venom was that they tried to turn him from a villain to an anti-hero. He started with the whole "protecting the innocent" credo and hoped the readers would forget all of the people he needlessly killed in his early appearances.
@@TheIndulger agreed!
I was always under the impression that I the comics the the symbiote don't affect the wearer but the other way around where they are effected and formed personality wise by thier wearers, especially thier first one. This was kinda shown when they retconned that during infinity war Deadpool actually tried on the symbiote before returning it to where Peter found it.
Having read the black costume saga more than once, there were two noteable side-effects that they worked in at the time.
1) Peter was often more exhausted than usual, because when he went to sleep, the costume would glom onto him and go out using his unconscious body as a frame to continue webslinging (it's not certain if it was targeting victims and fighting, but it would certainly have been in character for it to do so).
2) Peter dropped out of college explicitly against Aunt May's wishes, and frankly probably contrary to his own desires.
This is where the whole 'irritable and selfish' thing started in the source material. It was VERY underplayed, and could very well have been at least half-overlooked, or written as character development independent of the suit itself.
I am very disappointed to find out that the comic book spiderman didn't dance like an idiot
He didn't dance like an idiot back then, but if you really want to see a comic in which spider-man dances like an idiot, there's always Spider-Man/Deadpool #4
Oh he sure as hell did, but the symbiote had nothing to do with it. That was just Peter being Peter.
The black suit saga is one of those things that remains an iconic part of Spidey lore to this day and it's interesting on how it affected Peter. Personally, I find the adaptations like in the 90s animated series and Spider-man 3 to be easier to follow because if you're following the comics, it can become a daunting task with how many issues there are to read.
Spider-Man TAS has always been my main source of information especially before discovering channels like this one Comicstorian, Variant, and whatever else so anytime my siblings ask me about some Spidey character that they see in a movie I always just try and remember what happened in the cartoon and I'm like "in the 90s series this, this, and this happened" there's few Spidey comics I've actually read, I'm more of a DC fan so I'm way more knowledgeable on DC since that's what I've read, so yeah 90s Spidey and UA-cam teaches me all I know about Spidey mostly.
I literally watched the first season last week for the first time since childhood. Between this show and X-Men TAS (as well as their awesome theme music), childhood was awesome. Only thing better was Batman TAS.
Your hair looks really nice like that 👌
It's great to know that the 90s animated series greatly contributed to the lore by conceptualizing the negative personality effects of Venom symbiote. Funny how it went full circle and the comics ended up being the last piece of media to retroactively add that in. I just always thought the comics initially had that to some extent.
I have to check but I think as early as What If? #4(from volume 2) they were retconning the suit was taking over Peter all along. That comic came out just a year after Venom was introduced
Fortunately I managed to get my hands on the 90’s series on dvd a few years ago. The Venom arch from that series is still my favourite version!
I used to have that run of Secret Wars and the Spidey with the black suit. I really liked that black suit and was kind of disappointed when he went back to the original suit and made the suit into Venom. I wonder how many times the artists not liking drawing things effected the plots of the stories?
This might be too much of an ask, but it would be cool to see a video on Venom as a character. I know some people really love the character (and hated both versions of him in the movies because of how he was changed) but I never understood the appeal and seeing a history of type video as a kind of in, would be really cool
Talking about the SMTAS i actually have a fair few of those dvd sets if the arcs including the venom and daredevil arc's it's actually what introduced me to daredevil and made me a fan of him and kingpin cause of the "approximately 2% of my body mass is fat allow me to demonstrate what 350 pounds of muscle can do" line was badass
Love the black suit Spidey look. So sleek, so clean. By far my favorite superhero outfit in all of comics.
I think both Spider-Man:TAS and Spider-Man 3 way overdo the personality shift. It also bugs me, because when people talk about the symbiote, you can tell how much they don't consider the comics to be the ultimate canon or that important at all. An unwelcome reminder.
Venom was great pre-lethal protector. I didn't read lethal protector, but I much prefer the concept of Venom as a villain with a weird code, narrow goal, and complete lack of awareness than an anti-hero (or anti-villain). There's too many anti-heroes. Also, I've never enjoyed the other symbiotes, especially Carnage, so Venom's proximity to these characters kept me away.
I love these videos! So great!
This is why I love this channel. It's like Pauline Kael had a UA-cam channel about all things comics.
Thank you for this great video
Now I’m wondering what a punisher venom would look like. Frank eating heads!
I love your videos keep up the good work 😉
The TAS animated series is the thing that got me into superhero comics.
To this day, that universe (Earth-92131) is the one I default to (even over Earth-616, which is the official 'primary continuity').
Not as in "Earth-616 isn't canon", but rather like "Earth-616 happens/happened in an alternate universe".
Even if I'm not, my fandom is "native" to Earth-92131.
I did not know that the attitude change was created by the animated seires. I was too young to read the books.
So the animated series and Flare cards were my bridge from the cool comic art I had seen, and the story behind them.
I read bits and pieces of Secret Wars, where Peter first gets the suit, as a kid and have always been curious if it's worth going back and reading in trade or not. I'd be interested in your thoughts if this becomes a thread you keep wanting to pull at.
Iirc, she did a video on the Secret Wars saga.
The actual Secret Wars maxi-series doesn't really contains a lot about the symbiote. Peter doesn't get it until issue #8 so there's only 4 more issues left. And most of those issues are about Doom and the battles. If you really want to learn about the symbiote during that time, the Saga of the Alien Costume trade paperback (ASM #252-259) has the most information.
We appreciate your madness, Sasha.
Shout out to the Paper Bag "Kick Me" FF costume on Spidey post Secret Wars.
I’m a fan of both Spidey’s Classic Suit and his Symbiote Suit. It was just nice to see Spider-Man in a alternate suit like how many other characters get alternate costumes. I remember growing up reading a lot of Spider-Man comics watching the cartoons. Venom is my favorite Spider-Man villain. I just think in modern comics it’s hard to know what was originally cannon due to all the diversity in the multi-verse. But that’s why when I read comics I mostly read the original source material like from the Golden Age, Silver Age and some Bronze Age. I’m not much of a fan of a lot of current modern day comics.
I never cared for how Peter acquired the symbiote in the comics and I thought that part was handled better in the animated series. However, I preferred the comic's take that the symbiote actually cared for Peter and wanted to stay with him without trying to take him over. Also, it's just hard to believe that a big science nerd like Peter would not have immediately had questions about the *alien* costume. Come on, Ben and May raised him to be smarter than that.
Well he technically didn't have it at first because he thought it was just a suit he got during secret wars it wasn't until the symbiote started becoming more active that peter was ok somethings not right which most people would lol
@@davantebarbain3216 yeah. But what BGood is saying is there is no way that Peter would have this morphing suit that enhances his aspects, but wouldn't be intrigued and want to study it to see how it works.
@@unigenius what im saying is that it makes sense that he wouldn't suspect anything at first because 2 things first his spider sense never went off about the suit and as stated with so much going on in his life he saw it as something not to look to deep into as it seemed like a good thing during a hard time which is understandable
@@unigenius but i can see why it be wierd for him not to test out the other capabilities the suit granted
There was a what if type story about what if Peter kept the symbiote and its probably my favorite Spiderman story
I love how your hair looks like Venom is taking over. Clever choice. 👍
I kinda prefer the original take that it didn't alter him, just cause I like the suit a lot and didn't want it to be villainized. But I can see how the changes make sense at least. I do love they're exploring it again atm, cause the 80's is my favorite Spider-Man era.
Though mostly because Peter was just in his tighty whities a lot of the issues since he didn't wear much under the suit, which definitely needs to be reflected more today in the current series, for accuracy sake lol
Im surprised u didnt mention Spectacular spiderman since like that series had a mixture of both the original reason (the suit possesing peters body) and the new one (where he gets angrier and being influenced by the suit itself) for why he needed to get rid of the suit, which both blending in just seems seemless.
I was aware that Peter was never altered in the comics by the Symbiote's presence, but that it did basically wear him at night to go out swinging while he was asleep. And credit to the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series, for going back to that, in the episode, "Group Therapy", where Peter falls asleep and the Symbiote takes him out to fight the Sinister Six. That being said, I do get why alternate forms have shown Peter's personality being altered, the whole point of it being to hammer the point home of, "OO-OO-OO-OO-oo-oo-oo, I'm alien goo and I'm EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-EE-VIL-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L".
Venom...always been a big fan...but I recognize that he's been criminally overused...especially in the 90s, when there was hardly a comic book he didn't make at least ONE appearance in. Because if there's one thing Marvel, historically, has always been guilty of, it's that they've NEVER met a success story that they won't shamelessly milk to powder. Just ask Gwen Stacy or Jean Grey. I mean, for crying out loud, they've brought Jean Grey back to life so many times, just to kill her again (because you know, it worked just so gosh-darn good that FIRST time), that the act, itself, has completely lost all meaning. But I digress.
The ongoing deluge of Venom mini-series didn't help matters. With each story being helmed by a different creative team, it made for some pretty loose continuity. And on top of that, it just caused Marvel to run out of ideas for him that much faster. It all just went downhill from there. The final Venom story where he gets partial amnesia and forgets that Peter Parker is Spider-Man was bad enough. But then they released that story, "The Hunger", which, although actually offering up an interesting explanation as to why the Symbiote has always been attracted to Spider-Man, COMPLETELY contradicted everything (and I do mean, EVERYTHING) we knew about Venom up to that point. I could give you a complete list, but...God, it's just so painful.
The bottom line is, it would take almost 20 years before Venom would even BEGIN to get his groove back. And even now, he's still not where he was, back in the day. At least, that's just MY thinking on it.
I like what they did with Venom, but I loved it when the introduced the black costume to Spiderman in Secret Wars, because so many superhero costumes (including Spiderman's) look so hokey. I even bought that action figure when it came out, only to try to later make it into the character Deathurge.
I love the current symbiote storyline, it's adding so much to characters I've wanted more stories of since that cartoon.
Also there's no way thats a crop it looks like a normal - spitscereal.jpg
I like Venom but his lore is a bit over-written. He just feels a little silly when he goes from what amounts to Bizarro Spider-Man to a cosmic level hero.
Venom is one of my favorite comic characters and I really liked everything through Agent Venom. Lately I hate how all of Venom’s stories need to tie back to Null and Carnage. Can we not get a story where Cletus either stays dead or imprisoned please?
Marvel actually used the poor reception of the black suit to smooth over a license issue for the transformers comics they were making at the time. They wanted to crossover with Spider-Man to help boost the popularity of the newer series, but worried about putting Spider-Man in a hasbro property since the toy rights to the web-head belonged to Mattel. They got away with putting spider man in transformers #3 by including him in his “less well known” black suit.