I used to imagine Queelag having made a pact with Frampt and Gwyndolin. She would act as a guardian for the lower bell, endangering her life, but in that way also have steady access to humanity to offer her sister.
This makes me wonder how much time has really passed. We are not the first chosen undead and given you only go hollow if u quit playing, how many years has she defended the bell? How much humanity did she collect?
@@mr.voidroy6869 I know when you give the Lordvessel to Frampt he says something along the lines of: "It's you, it is really you! After a THOUSAND years it is truly you!". So at least by Frampt's reckoning it's been that long since Gwyn sacrificed himself to link the flame. Which is... wow. That means the Fair Lady has been in unimaginable pain for that long, maybe even longer depending on when they traveled to Blighttown and the Fair Lady took on her subject's blight that leads to her current condition* (I believe that's the theory why she's in her current state, but it may be wrong; I'm not perfectly versed on the lore.)
@@---qg6nq Is that how long it's been since Gwyn linked the fire or how long it's been since his soul became poor enough fuel that the fire started waning again, which would probably be when the flame gang started looking for a "chosen Undead"?
You have to remember that the chosen undead prophecy was manipulated to sound far older than it really is (explained in the timeline video) which means there's a good chance Frampt is lying through his teeth the whole way, and thus that 1000 year remark isn't actually reliable.
@@r863saI remember the pyromancy vendor and daughter of chaos, outside of Queelogs lair saying her mother and sisters have been suffering for 1000 years. She asks you to put them out of their misery regarding the bed of chaos
Demon culture also confirmed in DS3 where lost izalith has statues of demons set up in rows in the halls! You don't build statues in such a manner without reverence or culture to go with it!
I've been watching lore videos on DS1 for years and have probably watched everybody's iterations of the lore but I have to admit that this is fantastic. The witches and the chaos servants choosing to be demons, Quelana being a farce of a daughter, Xanthous being the father and finally, his betrayal of the Witch hinted at by his love for the goddess that Laurtrec also was obsessed with... Just utterly brilliant. Well done. Subscribed.
Same, this guys have made an amazing job at piecing things together, it's mindblowing tbh. As the title says i'm rediscovering the lore. The timeline was brilliant too, i feel like a thorn has been pulled from my side. I say this cause as many i've been looking at lore theories for years now, only to end up either having more questions, being angry at incoherencies being stated as fact, or getting even more confused by vagueness or misinterpretations. Keep it up Hawkshaw, CANNOT WAIT FOR MORE, I want lore on everything, there's still so many questionmarks!! My DS1 lore enthusiasm has been rekindled!!
@@kylebutler9865 I personally think Quelana misunderstands what is happening and sees what you do as mercy. This is supported by her returning to Izalith in ds3 and keeping the Fair Lady company until they die together. You can find Quelana's corpse hugging her sister's in the smoldering lake, and Cornyx says she went back to Izalith in a tone that implies overcoming a fear rather than coming back to finish the job.
Exactly this. I haven’t felt this mental rush of thought about DS1 since my first Vaati video and probably ENB’s lore discussions before that. Damn this is a blast from the past in the modern day.
Did you notice the relation between how Seath and the bat demons allied with Gwyn? Both eyeless, stark white and seen with bloody hands? I do not know what to make of it, but thought it was worth pointing out. Brilliant video!
perhaps we should look at the blood on their hands, as... well blood on their hands, in the figuratively sense, since they indirectly, and probably directly killed many of their own kin.
An Evil Stripper you also realize how the demon prince is just a really big, flaming bat demon? Or how there are ghrus in the smouldering lake and look strikingly similar to demons themselves? Or even how there are a type of ghru named the “conjurator ghrus?” I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that the conjurator set describes conjurators as predecessors to the pyromancers.
Such a great video. That Xanthos connection with the Parasitic Wall Hugger was amazing. The shape of the headpiece and the Wall Hugger are like almost a perfect fit.
I don't think Quelana tried to fool her brother by leaving her robes. She still wears them when we meet her. I think the body left beside him is one of his sisters. Explaining why he's only hostile after looting it
@Aickavon the Techpriest Right. Though we are technically missing three I suppose. Quelana, Quelaag, The Fair Lady, The one outside BoC (players call her Grana for some reason) That leaves 3. It's speculated that 2 sisters were sacrificed to the Bed, becoming those orbs we have to destroy in the boss fight. So the last could be the corpse by Discharge.
@@aickavon i know this is an old as fuck comment, but, i wanted to let you know that i am very happy to see that you have also thought of this. ive not come across one lore video that mentions this little tidbit and in turn, no one in the comments as far as i have seen, has said anything about it either. this has been a theory of mine for a long time.
@@tavrosnitram1529epic name bro an og dark souls lore channel coveted this around 2011-2012. I highly recommend it as it gives insight into the lore from a time perspective of right after the game released instead of the hindsight we have now.
I don't know. Quelana's dying words seem to suggest that she genuinely cares for her family. "Farewell, my mother, my sisters... What have you done..."
God...it always bums me out so so hard that Dark Souls ended up rushing the end and really kinda dropped the ball when it came to fleshing out the Demons and Witches and Izalith :T They were always one of my favorite aspects of the lore cause like, all the Demons we see and the way pyromancies work always struck me as so DISTINCTLY different from everything related to the Gods and the Undead and all that jazz. Like whereas New Londo and Oolacile/Darkroot and the Undead Burg/Cathedral and Sen's Fortress and the Catacombs and Tomb of Giants can ALL be very easily tied back to the overall society that formed around Anor Londo, Blighttown and the Swamp and Izalith all feel so...distinct, I guess. Like practically Alien in comparison to the rest of the game's world. The Chaos Flame WAS a completely separate thing that gave rise to it's own creatures, and eventually it's own civilization and very distinct kinds of magic in the original Fire Sorceries weilded by the Demon Firesage, leading to Chaos Pyromancy, leading to Quelanna's pyromancy and the pyromancies of the Great Swamp...god there's so much there that could have been done and the War with Gwyn seems like kind of a big deal as a world event and it just bumms me out...aw well, least Dark Souls III imo gave Chaos a proper sendoff with the Old Demon King and all those sad sad Demons burnt like charcoal or embers...they sputtered and died, something that was never meant to be.
Coraline Kozun I think it was done on purpose to reflect the state of society and see how the people viewed the demons via propaganda and the manipulation you get for killing the inhabitants of Izalith
I'm pretty sure it was on purpose. I too loved the demons and wanted to know more about everything surrounding them, but if your told everything I think it will take of way from that question, "are demons really bad guys".
I agree. That is what fascinated me about them as well. Listening to their music, (ie Quelaag’s music, and the bed of chaos music) makes it sound very foreign, and unknowable... But not necessarily evil, rather angelic in its own strange way
I'll never forget seeing Izalith on the way to kill Nito, and that giant dome, thinking it was just background art, much like looking up at Anor Londo's walls. Going to both places was awe inspiring. I recall a giant WTF moment when I realised that I was actually inside the dome, with the Angkor Wat inspired buildings. When I cleared out the Demon ruins in DS3, I felt genuinely sad for the demons, if not outright guilty. We're the real monsters lol Now that people can start modding the game, total conversion wise, I hope someone finishes it, and even gives us the world near its prime.
It sucks that Izalith wasn't properly designed due to time constants because the architecture in the area is fucking beautiful. It's honestly one of my favorite areas in DS1 and I know a lot of people will look at me like I'm crazy when I say that.
That'd explain a lot of the lack of options: no killing Fina, no peaceful solution with Quelaag, killing multiple Lords for their souls even though a single one ought to have been enough for the First Flame (though I don't know why the door to the kiln required 4 Lord Souls to open).
Quelaag attacks us silently on her own; we probably wouldn't have even been able to understand her without the Old Witch's Ring. Fina...isn't actually in the game, and so you couldn't kill you even if you wanted to, and the reason we collect the souls is to enter the Kiln, not to give them to the First Flame.
Try saying No to Kingseeker Frampt in a fresh playthrough. The implication of his response is that you are unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and that he may expect more undead to come along eventually
This is by far one of the best lore videos I think I've seen on Dark Souls 1. Everything is beautifully presented and backed up by great evidence, I can't wait to see more from you!
your theory that king jeremiah is the father of the daughters of chaos and ceaseless and the prince of chaos blew my mind. I think you should include music from berserk and kingsfield into your background music as well as they certainly arent out of place
As a matter of fact since Xanthous King means Yellow king we could make the relationship with a Chutulu mythos character, the King in Yellow is an Avatar of Hastur, so named because of his appearance as a thin, floating man covered in tattered yellow robes, removing the mask is a sanity-shattering experience; the King's face is described as "inhuman eyes in a suppurating sea of stubby maggot-like mouths; liquescent flesh, tumorous and gelid, floating and reforming, so Hastur is an old one which could be considered a demon and both characters have a really ugly face XD
Vaati new video on Izalith is basically a resume on your video and with one day the video has more visualization than yours, I am sad about this... Like you have the best lore video about quantity of lore/theory, how come people don't see your videos?
Mind blown on Xanthous, not only on this but because Orbeck in DkS3 calls the Xanthous scholars sorcerers. THAT plays right into the witches of Izalith because they were sorcerers that use chaos pyromancy.
@@randomusername.5605 true, but Flame Sorcery also came from Izalith. It was forgotten in favour of Pyromancy, but Demon Firesage still uses it. Maybe these scholars were trying to study the ancient Demon culture, the one before the "engulfment"?
@@randomusername.5605 There is the Izalith Staff in DS3, which feeds off of the same stats as Pyromancy does, and is intended for Dark Sorceries, so the connection from Izalith to Sorcery is definitely there, even though they are by far the most well known for their Pyromancy. It may very well even be that the Xanthous Scholars are studying Sorcery that has nothing to do with Izalith's own, but that simply because of its proximity to Izalith, is assumed to be similar.
I know that you are focusing on Dark souls I right now. But I desire to know what do you think about Quelana Pyromancy Tome found by dead giant spider corpse in Dark Souls III? Especially When description states: "Quelana, the sole surviving witch of Izalith, once accepted a human pupil, but after the pupil moved on, she never took another." This implies that Salaman was her only student.
hm. or that we never told anyone who we were taught by. or that we were the last human pupil? the more interesting implication is that she killed her sister. we wrote this video before ds3 and a spell of quelanas by her dead sister is pretty convincing that we were right.
@@Hawkshaw Extremely old, but I would say that since the Soul of Cinder (the deific manifestation of all Lords of Cinder) uses normal pyromancies, not *Chaos* Pyromancies, is solid evidence that none of the Chosen Undead were students of Quelana.
@@Mare_Man Quelana don't know chaos pyromancies only the " usual " of the great swamp that she teached to Salaman so it's possible to think that she teached her art to the chosen undead as well
I'm still not entirely convinced, i can believe that she wanted us and others to kill her family, but i'm not sure that her intentions were entirely evil, maybe she never understood the Chaos itself (because she only teaches her pyromancies, not the ones from Izalith), and couldn't comprehend why her sisters were happy with the "mostrosities" they became I'm not trying to defend her, but we have not enough clue of why she hates her family so much, there has to be a meaningful reason as to why she go as far as developing a pyromancy to control undeads and why she tries to hide it that she hates them
you made a very compelling case for jeremiah being the father of the daughters of chaos, i dont know if you know that but it apears that isalith is a combination of the words isfet which means chaos in egyption mythology and lilith which means "nightly" in hebrew and is also a specific species of owl BUT she is also the mother of demons and the first woman in hebrew mythology. so if isalith has more connections to hebrew names and words it also supports your theory about jeremiah since his name would also originated from hebrew mythology. you might wanna check out the ashen hollow's video about chaos and dark and the identity of velka if you havent already
The fact that Jeremiah was indeed linked with a chaos parasite would in my eyes be strengthened by the fact that in Dark Souls 3 the Xanthous Crown is actually caved-in. And several items mention that the chaos flame too, is fading. You find a lot of dead demons in areas and it could be that the demon that was in the crown has too died out.
The witch of Izalith, Demons, and Pyromancy are all my favorite parts of the Dark Souls series. I’m glad to see a video that gives such thorough love and care to their lore and history, that finally gave quite a few answers to many questions I had.
Pretty surprised you didn't draw any parallels between the Xanthous gear's little belt(?) things on the back and the blacksmith in the catacomb's face growths(?) They look pretty similar to me. It's a flimsy connection but it does what FromSoft does best: raises more questions than it answers
I always found the story and lore of Dark Souls to be above and beyond most other games, and that's what makes it special. But this analysis of the lore is incredible. If only this much thought and dedication were put into more games.
Wow..... when you went into detail about the poison that affected the Fair Lady... makes total sense! I really hope that one day you may make an updated version of this video with more evidence provided by DS3 ^^
One of my favorite things about these Hawkshaw videos (every one of which I have seen several times now) is the unique, yet consistent character builds walking us through areas being discussed throughout a playthrough. The Fashion Souls, weapon choices, it's always very interesting to see how these absolute legends are playing.
If Jeremiah was the king of Izalith, I think It's less of a stretch to think Gwyn was the one to exile him, and locked him away as a hostage of sorts, to end the war. Anyways, it leads me to question the outlandish and unknown pyromancies in The Painted World. Since pyromancers are pretty rare, it would be strange for just some pyromancer never mentioned anywhere to end up in the painted world with/before him. I'll need to think about this.
Or some sort of prize for victory; "to capture and imprison the king of the enemy nation." Their logic for having xanthous's betrayal be the cause for the witch's fall is good though, but it does seem unlikely that there xanthous would be exiled; then go to anor londo and enter a painting to... escape? Is pretty loose. I think more likely there was mounting tension between the two nations and jerimiah got seduced by thena, as part of a ploy to destabilize izaleth. He gets seduced up to anor londo; only to be captured and imprisoned
+Tar Alacrin Gwyn cannot exile a King of the region he is at war with Xerxesrogue, that doesn't make sense. Do you mean capture as opposed to exile? It is explicitly stated that he was exiled so "prize for victory" or capturing is not a possibility. Instead it is in fact extremely likely that Jeremiah would go to Anor Londo after exile, since he would have wanted to see Fina who lived there and he was no longer an enemy of Gwyn, who has always been open to turncoats. Why he enters the painting is likely a later development. Perhaps as the growth develops he is spurned by Fina and therefore goes to the painted world as all monsters who are spurned often do. In response to the pyromancers: these have nothing to do with Xanthous. they are also exiles/driven from their home, but have been driven from the great swamp. They like Eingyi adopted the use of poisonous pyromancies and were exiled. Their bloated toxic heads are what happens when the blightpus is not removed as it was for Eingyi. I also don't believe exiles come to the painted world through the painting, or not always. In berserk when you are in a bad enough state you can be drawn into the astral world by a behelit. In priscilla's case perhaps this is the doll. They all desperately want to escape and have a home and so are transported there somehow.. I don't know and haven't thought about this function but priscilla, the crows and the skeleton wheels etc didn't trot through the cathedral into the painting.
+Hawkshaw Good point on the exile thing. I was coming from the assumtion that everything (pre-demon war) was sort of technically under the rule of gwyn from anor londo, even if it was only in lip-service. Thus banishment to the painted world could still be exile. I don't think the growths were developed afterwards, since it states in the description of his armor that "no one knows where it came from", which seems to imply to me that he already had the strange armor and strange headwrap when he "appeared on the scene" so to speak. But that's super thin. That "no one knows where it came from" is an interesting wrench though, because if he was the king of Izaleth and was exiled; surely people would know where his strange garb came from, right? King of one of the two biggest nations isn't exactly a low profile gig. I think they are probably talking from the perspective of the legend told about him and Fina. (his armor says "Legendary exile" her ring says "known in Legend to posess fateful beauty" it seems that they may be both known through the same legend told about the exile and the goddess) if this is the case, then we could probably dismiss the line as "nobody knowing" referring to the fact that none of the common folk who are talking about this legend and passing it down know . Idk, anyways I don't think I said this; but brilliant find on the jeremiah izaleth connection, love this channel. As for the Painted World; I think its definitely not a natural place or it was originally a natural place that is now accessed via a painting; Priscilla says that "Ariamis created this world" and even the name being the "painted world" implies that the world was created with the painting. Even the way you exit the world being to jump off the cliff which spits you out of the painting implies that the painting is more than just a mere portal to an already existing land. And Priscilla's soul refers to her being "inside the painted world", which implies that the world exists magically within the painting, rather than just being a real location far away or something. Furthermore I think there are a few clues that bring the idea that the purpose of the Painted World is a sanctuary for misfits into question; Why are there so many pieces of anti-Lord items hidden within; (Dark Ember used for creating weapons effective against Lords, all sorts of things associated with Velka who is described as a rogue deity, Velka's rapier also has the occult trait) And even more importantly why does Priscilla's soul and her scythe describe her as being "Trapped inside the painted world of ariamis"? If it is just a sanctuary for the castaways. I believe that the painted World was created to hide things away from the rest of the world, things that were feared by the gods, or that the gods didn't want to be destroyed but didn't want others to know about or have access to, etc. Thats why the place is so full of things that the gods fear; heck even Priscilla was "feared by the gods" for her lifehunt ability, also for being a bastard crossbreed that could cause some weird PR issues. I think that despite its original cause for creation, the place turned out, it wound up becoming a sanctuary of sorts, due I'm sure in part to the kindness of Priscilla watching over everything. I believe that Some of these things were also preserved in case gwyn needed to use them later down the line against other Lords. ie; having a bunch of occult weaponry on hand is real useful if he ever had to go to war with Nito or the Witch of Izaleth. Its kind of like his store of WMDs. There's more to this puzzle if we look at the painting guardians. Their set talks about how they have been guarding the painting of Ariamis for Ages; so long in fact that they have forgotten why they guard it. Their sword also gives mention that they have been striking down any that "dare threaten the painting" for generations. So its clear that they aren't guarding things from exiting the painting; rather stopping any that might destroy or damage it or its contents in any way. So if they are protecting the painting from external threats; who are they protecting it from? Well, if we look at the armor set description we see that it specifically points out how the armor has a very high magic resist. This further supports the idea that the place is not just a sanctuary; because the painting guardians are fairly ill equipped to fight against Gwyn and his army or anyone with lightning or physical attacks; who would be the most likely people that everyone is be wanting sanctuary from. Now who in the universe has a motive for breaking in to the painting and is also heavily linked with magic? Well, it just so happens that two names spring to mind, and both have fairly strong motives for doing just that. Velka and her agents have strong ties to magic, and it seems that she could be one potential attacker, after all, much of what the painting has locked away are hers in the first place, and she already seems to be at odds with the gods somehow, and surely the more occult weaponry she can obtain, the better. On the other hand we have Seath, obviously heavily linked to magic, and a verified turncoat already so I wouldn't put it past him to want to either attack the gods or have safeguards against them should they attack him first. and furthermore, the Painted World contains someone who is very likely his child; a child that he probably doesn't have as much revulsion for as the gods do.I think the painted world may actually specifically have been created to hide and protect things from falling into the hands of those two. All that to say though, I think that there has to be more to the tale of King Jeremiah how he ended up in the painted world than simply fleeing there, since it would be difficult to just flee past the painting guardians, who would surely wish to prevent him from entering unbidden, and as per my previous points it seems more like the painted world is a hidden prison for the gods to lock away things that they fear or they don't want to deal with, rather than a sanctuary for those who don't fit in. Also, side note; why the heck is there a Berenike knight in the painted world? Did he travel with tarkus to anor londo then somehow get trapped in there as well? Was he thrown in? or did he just wander in? Thats a weird one. And one that quite frankly I don't think it has a satisfying answer. Interestingly enough, Velka's Rapier also describes Velka as being a "black haired witch" and well versed in "all manners of sorcery". I wonder if Velka was one of the fragments of manus? I feel like she fits the bill working against the Lords, being super manipulative, Being associated with the Dark and the Occult... I'm sure I could find more evidence if I took the time. But its more likely than she was just this super powerful goddess that kinda materialized out of nowhere with no connections to anything or anyone else.
+Hawkshaw Too explain my speculation a bit more, it was grounded mostly in a thought of Gwyn winning the war or just conquered Izalith, and what then? Would he have killed the queen, one of the four lords? Would he wipe the demons from existence, or have any interest in occupying the lands for himself? Because if not, a good answer to end the war in peace (more or less), and put an end to future retaliation from Izalith, would be to bring the king with him back to Anor Londo, even if it would piss the queen off immensely. I will admit, exile becomes a bit of a strange choice of words at this point, and after thinking about it some more, the Fina connection is a bit too unlikely to be completely random. My point about the pyromancers is that in the description of Fire Surge and Acid Surge, it is clearly stated that they are not from the great swamp, and given nothing links these spells to Izalith either. It's unlikely that they are from Blighttown originally. Outside of Eingyi, Quelana and Laurentius making appearances there, the only pyromancer there, is the corpse with Power Within on it (if the body with Laurentius' set, and poison mist on it belongs to Laurentius). If the pyromancers had any connection to Blighttown, you would probably be able to find one of the Surge spells there, and the other in The Painted World, but we don't. There is nothing really to go on, in who these pyromancers are, but we just find them along with Jeremiah, in The Painted World. You could be right in that they are just outcast, which is kind of likely, since Laurentius' spesifically implies pyromancers often are, given the nature of their practice. Even so, why The Painted World? Thanks for the reply though, and keep up the good work. These videos keeps me thinking about Dark Souls 1 lore even still, after 2 sequels a handful of years, and frequent playing. They, along with playing DS3 recently really just undermines, and remind me how good the first game really is, and how wonderful it is to dig into.
Honestly, DS3 made Jeremiah's connection to Izalith even stronger when it clarified that they are scholars of Oolacile's light sorceries. Perhaps he was of Oolacile, and allied with Izalith after witnessing the destruction of his homeland and its "root cause" being Gwyn's regime.
It would also explain why he's in the painted world, he wasn't hiding, but a prisoner of the gods. The painted world is just as much a place to hide as it is a dumping ground for anything the gods don't like and/or are afraid of.
"Naedoko" refers to a nursery in a botanical sense. It means "seedbed". "Nae" means a seedling. A nursery for young children would be "Hoikuen" or "Ikuji Shitsu". This tracks better with how Bed of Chaos is a tree, the Asylum, Stray and Firesage Demons look treelike, Kirk has thorns, the Capra Demon's "belt" looks like twigs, and catalysts look like branches even when made of rock. I hope this helps.
This is by far the most extensive and meticulous overview of demon lore I have ever seen. Your videos are astounding. If you keep it up, I think you'll be the new Vaati.
Great work with these videos! I enjoy seeing new ideas and theories about the lore showing up, especially so long after the game's release. I was thoroughly impressed with the timeline video: things like establishing that Lordran was built before the war against the dragons, or that the Bed of Chaos was stable and under control for a time, were insights into things that I had never thought about before. Now, we're seeing the idea that there was a culture of demons, that the demons were willing subjects to demonhood, and that the motivations of characters like Quelana should be placed under scrutiny. Great new ideas that haven't been seen elsewhere. I'm excited to see what you have coming up next, hopefully soon.
Ridiculously well done, these theories is why I love Dark Souls lore so much, the fact that your mind gets more opened up everytime you browse a video or a forum and people notices large or very small details about something you, yourself, thought you had a grasp on only to be blown away how different things "might" be.
This is actually thrilling.You have done such an AMAZING job with these lore videos I am sure most of us gained a whole new perspective of things after so many years.You actually provide solid facts,unlike most other famous dark souls lore UA-camrs who simply speculate when things start to get unclear,and I understand it took a huge effort to research and provide us with this information.Your work is a piece of art! Waaay too underrated channel.You deserve much more attention from the community for the effort you have made. Hope you also make lore videos about the other two installments of the series!
I JUST found this channel last night and its blowing my freaking mind. Got me going back through dark souls looking at symbols around the undead parish for hours lol Such amazing stuff, crazy I've never seen these
This is my #1 favorite Dark Souls lore video. I LOVE this subject, about new beings creating a new culture, about how we can see new things as evil, and while playing the game, we end up accepting the viewpoints of everybody who would see the demons as monsters, while ignoring their point of view to discover that they're not that. That the city got the size it is with its civilization and culture after the demons were created and that they embraced it only makes me like the lore of that game more. Thank you for making this video!
I'm so glad your channel is getting the recognition it deserves. You've been found EXTREMELY in depth on the lore and I'm glad to see your channel thriving. Keep going friend, God Speed!
How could Quelana use Rapport to "infect" her sister through Eingyi, if the Fair Lady willingly accept the fate she is living? Eingyi says: "Worse than Undead, we are diseased, and unwanted. Like the grime of the Great Swamp. But my dear, Fair Lady! She cried for me… And swallowed the great Blightpus, despite Mistress Quelaag's orders to the contrary." So it seems more likely that the Fair Lady made this choice, rather than it being thrust upon her. Also considering how kind-hearted the Fair Lady is, I think that goes against the thought of people making the choice to become a demon. But that of course, is just my own speculation on it.
hiya. it doesn't require it to be forced. if you know she's kind hearted you can send a poisoned, deluded eingyi down there hoping that she will cure him and infect herself. of course she made a choice. an example that comes to mind because of our nito in love interpretation is how penelope isn't forced to eat the pomegranate. its placed there temptingly. as to kind hearted demon analogy, i believe we show or at least try to show that demons aren't intrinsically evil so the assumption that she wouldnt become a demon because she is kind doesn't apply. the demons keep to themselves. in addition it could be done from a position of ignorance if they were among the first to transform.
I see where you are coming from. To me it just seems that the people from the Great Swamp who became these egg-bearers were all equally diseased and the Fair Lady swallowed up that disease to help them. Then in turn the began to serve the Flame of Chaos. But again, that is just my interpretation, and the whole point of Dark Souls is creating as many unique stories as we can. So I definitely still enjoy the theory you've created here! =)
... I wouldn't say that the undead legend is a "false prophecy", mainly because the result and purpose of linking the flame still works. I'd say that it's more of a "deceptive prophecy".
Well, it's not really a prophecy, is it? More of a scheme. The creation of a religious flavor surrounding the plot is what makes it a "prophecy", and when that is revealed to be naught more than the scheme of those who would do anything to hold onto what little power they have left?
No one ever suggests it, but I always thought that the bat wing demons were perhaps silver knights corrupted by the chaos. Given their horns and bodies matching with the silver knight armor and the spears having lightning enchantments, not to mention their locations, uses, and color schemes... Like they're the survivors from the war on demons.
The long wait between videos was well worth it! I've watched bed rewatched nearly every video on Dark souls lore in existence, and this is easily the most thorough and comprehensive lore analysis. Thanks Hawkshaw!
I show this is to all my lore-loving dark souls friend because I think the whole community needs to see it. Still looking forward to Izalith story of the gods, someday...
very good lore ideas. gave me a whole new perspective on the witches of izalith and how she didnt turn to chaos for power but instead to detatch herself from humanity and all its emotional pain. i always wondered why they never mentioned a father and this makes a lot of sense. keep making videos man
Tremendous, fantastic video! I always thought trading the Xanthous crown to the crow for the fav ring was a little off, it didn't make sense to me since I related Fina to Lautrec only. I wonder who ceaseless's father is? taking into account his size and zombie like appearance I dare say it was Nito.
+Karolus Magnus ahh good question. we have an idea, I'm afraid our idea isn't Nito though.. its so caught up in so much it will be one big video. But look out for Nito in our upcoming vid!
Just finished watching the Time Line video and now on to this one. I do love Vaati's videos but I have to say the amount of work and dedication you have put into these has rekindled my love of the series once more. You sir are the true Scholar of the First Sin.
Seeing those ornaments on Jeremiahs Coat looking like the stuff that Vamos has on it's face and the fact that his helmet is bright yellow like Jeremiahs clothes I couldn't hold back a giant "Holy fuck" flying out of my mouth. For a moment I thought he was a brother of the daughers or somehow connected to the witches of izalith, because of the text of his helmet and his knowledge of the izalith embers. Any final thoughts from you on a possible connection between Jeremiah and Vamos? Also: I always make sure to save Laurentius so he doesn't get hollow because I really like him. And from now on I add "Annihilate Quelana" to that list for every upcoming run of DS1.
There are some really amazing & well developed theories in this video. some are even mindblowing and give me a new appreciation for dark souls lore. of coz its not like i'm agreed to everything for there are things that feel doesn't add up, but given the amount of content & effort put into this vid its upsetting to see the number of view so far.
I find it interesting we can see the two smaller daughters of chaos clearly the one protecting the Bed and Quelana. And the other three seemingly Quelaag, Quelaan (The Fair Lady), and the deceased sister that Ceaseless mourns.
A long time ago I saw your videos but today I listened to them 🔥, and after hearing tons of other dark souls lore the timeline you present is undoubtedly my favorite!
I watched Vaati's video several times and was enamoured by it, thinking that it was genius. Now I know that the real genius is you, the most thorough Dark Souls I UA-camr there has ever been.
If Izalith is in fact a demon settlement and the buildings are not vestiges of more humanlike folks from before, then why does the still heavily inhabited Izalith seem to be decaying and falling apart?
Damn, just when I thought I knew everything about DS1 lore, I stumble upon this. Your theory with Eingyi being controlled by Quelana, the bug being a son of the witch and Jeremiah being the King of Izalith blew my mind!
The music that went with this was amazingly done, I got got here from vaati but I am sticking on by myself now. You have fleshed out so much and presented it very well. I look forwards to more.
ive just discovered this after vaati linked it in the description of his vid. And i'm in awe. you've earned a new subscriber after almost 3 years and im definitely spreading the word
Xanthous King could be a reference to Hastur, the King in Yellow. Part of the extended Cthulu mythos and an Old One, he has a rivalry with Cthulu and created and expands a cult to destroy him.
I really like your idea of Chaos being a kind of addiction. Viewing it through that lense Quelana makes alot more sense. The mother of heroin addict will say their child is suffering, but the addict themselves would not.
Nearly a decade I have been playing this game and yet I still find new ways of interpreting it; like considering Jerimiahs links to Izaleth. It's why I love this series!
You convinced me with a lot but I don't buy certain things. Like how Qualana faked her own death. I'm guessing you base this on the clothes description of the Gold Hemmed set. If you count that corpse with Ceaseless as a daughter of Chaos then all the daughters will be accounted for. Quelana isn't the only one that has that outfit. The npc before the bed of chaos does too and the cutscenes show all daughters fully robed in the same or very similar cloth. You say the daughters of chaos aren't suffering. But they are hardly doing well for themselves. 1 is dying from poison, 2 are bound to the witch without bodies, 1 is dead near Ceaseless and Quelana left and possibly betrayed them. The witch herself is in a depression and perhaps, judging from the roots (they seem lifeless to me), also possibly dying. All before you even see Quelaag. However I do believe they changed into demons by their own choice now. Are the daughters really family btw? For some reason I always thought they were more like teacher and pupils, like a witch coven or a religious thing like nuns. Witches call other witches, sisters right? You also say king Jeremiah might have a demon head, but it could just as easily be blighted like the others you find in the Painted World. I always thought he had some connection to Blighttown because of those toxic heads in the painting who have fire spells but are also weak to fire. What if he was exiled to Blighttown, left with his followers and was poisoned there.
hey thats genious, I really enjoyed this alot, especially the part about Jeremiah. Before I could never wrap my head around (haha) his connection to izalith and I thought he simply was a callback to demons souls. Glad to now believe he´s much more than that.
Amazing encapsulation of the Dark Souls universe. I don't think Dark Souls lore has ever made so much sense as it does after watching these thoroughly researched videos you've put out. Fantastic job!
Personally I still think Quelanna believes its the right thing and that the demons have become more savage losing the social complexity they once had, I mean, they obviously aren't repairing their crumbling home and they make weapons out of each other.
I like your views "Demons are just something people call those they do not understand". This is so right. What do you call someone you don't understand and is acting crazy? "They are possessed by a demon". Also, in the other video I couldn't reply to your comment but don't apologize for the audio sounding off. Keep up the great work!
You know it's possible for people to go to other places, right? Just because the Eldest Daughter is currently closer to the Witch/Seedbed than Quelaag and the Fair Lady, does not mean she was closer when shit went down. They didn't all stay in the exact same spot for centuries.
Worth noting that a popular series of books written in the late 1800s was called the "yellow" series and in the books a play called "the king in yellow" is referenced. Reading this play leads the reader to madness. Interestingly enough this books series was VERY popular in Japan. Jeremiahs fall may have been associated with forbidden knowledge. Here is a link en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow
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Hawkshaw
Thank you for this informative lore video
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I used to imagine Queelag having made a pact with Frampt and Gwyndolin. She would act as a guardian for the lower bell, endangering her life, but in that way also have steady access to humanity to offer her sister.
This makes me wonder how much time has really passed. We are not the first chosen undead and given you only go hollow if u quit playing, how many years has she defended the bell? How much humanity did she collect?
@@mr.voidroy6869 I know when you give the Lordvessel to Frampt he says something along the lines of: "It's you, it is really you! After a THOUSAND years it is truly you!". So at least by Frampt's reckoning it's been that long since Gwyn sacrificed himself to link the flame. Which is... wow. That means the Fair Lady has been in unimaginable pain for that long, maybe even longer depending on when they traveled to Blighttown and the Fair Lady took on her subject's blight that leads to her current condition* (I believe that's the theory why she's in her current state, but it may be wrong; I'm not perfectly versed on the lore.)
@@---qg6nq Is that how long it's been since Gwyn linked the fire or how long it's been since his soul became poor enough fuel that the fire started waning again, which would probably be when the flame gang started looking for a "chosen Undead"?
You have to remember that the chosen undead prophecy was manipulated to sound far older than it really is (explained in the timeline video) which means there's a good chance Frampt is lying through his teeth the whole way, and thus that 1000 year remark isn't actually reliable.
@@r863saI remember the pyromancy vendor and daughter of chaos, outside of Queelogs lair saying her mother and sisters have been suffering for 1000 years. She asks you to put them out of their misery regarding the bed of chaos
Demon culture also confirmed in DS3 where lost izalith has statues of demons set up in rows in the halls! You don't build statues in such a manner without reverence or culture to go with it!
Bare in the mind the statues are of the flame priests, meaning it is possibly a shrine of some sort.
halisme Worshipping their origin
also the hierarchy that its shown as we fight the Demon King and the Demon Prince later on the DLC
These could also be dead demons though
Damn, we need Hawkshaw to do DS2 and DS3 lore too...
I will be waiting...
I've been watching lore videos on DS1 for years and have probably watched everybody's iterations of the lore but I have to admit that this is fantastic.
The witches and the chaos servants choosing to be demons, Quelana being a farce of a daughter, Xanthous being the father and finally, his betrayal of the Witch hinted at by his love for the goddess that Laurtrec also was obsessed with...
Just utterly brilliant. Well done.
Subscribed.
Same, this guys have made an amazing job at piecing things together, it's mindblowing tbh.
As the title says i'm rediscovering the lore. The timeline was brilliant too, i feel like a thorn has been pulled from my side. I say this cause as many i've been looking at lore theories for years now, only to end up either having more questions, being angry at incoherencies being stated as fact, or getting even more confused by vagueness or misinterpretations.
Keep it up Hawkshaw, CANNOT WAIT FOR MORE, I want lore on everything, there's still so many questionmarks!!
My DS1 lore enthusiasm has been rekindled!!
I love this channel, but the Qellanna was one of the only NPC's I didn't think was a sociopath. That's gone now.
Youve seen everything with different itterations but arent subscribed to hawkshaw yet!?
@@kylebutler9865 I personally think Quelana misunderstands what is happening and sees what you do as mercy. This is supported by her returning to Izalith in ds3 and keeping the Fair Lady company until they die together. You can find Quelana's corpse hugging her sister's in the smoldering lake, and Cornyx says she went back to Izalith in a tone that implies overcoming a fear rather than coming back to finish the job.
Exactly this. I haven’t felt this mental rush of thought about DS1 since my first Vaati video and probably ENB’s lore discussions before that. Damn this is a blast from the past in the modern day.
Did you notice the relation between how Seath and the bat demons allied with Gwyn? Both eyeless, stark white and seen with bloody hands? I do not know what to make of it, but thought it was worth pointing out. Brilliant video!
i'd like to hear more about that.
perhaps we should look at the blood on their hands, as... well blood on their hands, in the figuratively sense, since they indirectly, and probably directly killed many of their own kin.
I assumed it's because the pale white is linked with death in Asian cultures.
An Evil Stripper you also realize how the demon prince is just a really big, flaming bat demon? Or how there are ghrus in the smouldering lake and look strikingly similar to demons themselves? Or even how there are a type of ghru named the “conjurator ghrus?” I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that the conjurator set describes conjurators as predecessors to the pyromancers.
GioDude 1987 what are you implying with this comparison?
Such a great video. That Xanthos connection with the Parasitic Wall Hugger was amazing. The shape of the headpiece and the Wall Hugger are like almost a perfect fit.
omg dash of destruction pfp, the best free game.
I don't think Quelana tried to fool her brother by leaving her robes. She still wears them when we meet her. I think the body left beside him is one of his sisters. Explaining why he's only hostile after looting it
I doubt that Quelana, as the princess of a whole civilization, had only one set of clothes.
to be fair... aren't we missing a sister from the lore?
That could very well be that said missing sister.
@Aickavon the Techpriest Right. Though we are technically missing three I suppose.
Quelana,
Quelaag,
The Fair Lady,
The one outside BoC (players call her Grana for some reason)
That leaves 3.
It's speculated that 2 sisters were sacrificed to the Bed, becoming those orbs we have to destroy in the boss fight. So the last could be the corpse by Discharge.
@@aickavon i know this is an old as fuck comment, but, i wanted to let you know that i am very happy to see that you have also thought of this. ive not come across one lore video that mentions this little tidbit and in turn, no one in the comments as far as i have seen, has said anything about it either. this has been a theory of mine for a long time.
@@tavrosnitram1529epic name bro an og dark souls lore channel coveted this around 2011-2012.
I highly recommend it as it gives insight into the lore from a time perspective of right after the game released instead of the hindsight we have now.
I don't know. Quelana's dying words seem to suggest that she genuinely cares for her family.
"Farewell, my mother, my sisters... What have you done..."
God...it always bums me out so so hard that Dark Souls ended up rushing the end and really kinda dropped the ball when it came to fleshing out the Demons and Witches and Izalith :T They were always one of my favorite aspects of the lore cause like, all the Demons we see and the way pyromancies work always struck me as so DISTINCTLY different from everything related to the Gods and the Undead and all that jazz. Like whereas New Londo and Oolacile/Darkroot and the Undead Burg/Cathedral and Sen's Fortress and the Catacombs and Tomb of Giants can ALL be very easily tied back to the overall society that formed around Anor Londo, Blighttown and the Swamp and Izalith all feel so...distinct, I guess. Like practically Alien in comparison to the rest of the game's world. The Chaos Flame WAS a completely separate thing that gave rise to it's own creatures, and eventually it's own civilization and very distinct kinds of magic in the original Fire Sorceries weilded by the Demon Firesage, leading to Chaos Pyromancy, leading to Quelanna's pyromancy and the pyromancies of the Great Swamp...god there's so much there that could have been done and the War with Gwyn seems like kind of a big deal as a world event and it just bumms me out...aw well, least Dark Souls III imo gave Chaos a proper sendoff with the Old Demon King and all those sad sad Demons burnt like charcoal or embers...they sputtered and died, something that was never meant to be.
Coraline Kozun I think it was done on purpose to reflect the state of society and see how the people viewed the demons via propaganda and the manipulation you get for killing the inhabitants of Izalith
I'm pretty sure it was on purpose. I too loved the demons and wanted to know more about everything surrounding them, but if your told everything I think it will take of way from that question, "are demons really bad guys".
I agree. That is what fascinated me about them as well. Listening to their music, (ie Quelaag’s music, and the bed of chaos music) makes it sound very foreign, and unknowable... But not necessarily evil, rather angelic in its own strange way
I'll never forget seeing Izalith on the way to kill Nito, and that giant dome, thinking it was just background art, much like looking up at Anor Londo's walls. Going to both places was awe inspiring. I recall a giant WTF moment when I realised that I was actually inside the dome, with the Angkor Wat inspired buildings. When I cleared out the Demon ruins in DS3, I felt genuinely sad for the demons, if not outright guilty. We're the real monsters lol
Now that people can start modding the game, total conversion wise, I hope someone finishes it, and even gives us the world near its prime.
It sucks that Izalith wasn't properly designed due to time constants because the architecture in the area is fucking beautiful. It's honestly one of my favorite areas in DS1 and I know a lot of people will look at me like I'm crazy when I say that.
xanthuous and the Vamos the blacksmith both have similar "demon thingies ". xanthous has it on his back and Vamos on his face
Wanna know why Lorencious went Hollow? Those blood bugs- as shown in DS3, Humanity is in the blood/the Dark Soul, they drained him dry.
A cute idea, not sure if it applies all the way back to DS1 though.
I believe he went hollow cause quelana didn’t show herself to him for whatever reason. Causing him to lose his will to live
She didn't show to him because his flame wasn't +10@@brysonbridges1496
What if we are charmed with undead rapport the WHOLE TIME.
That'd explain a lot of the lack of options: no killing Fina, no peaceful solution with Quelaag, killing multiple Lords for their souls even though a single one ought to have been enough for the First Flame (though I don't know why the door to the kiln required 4 Lord Souls to open).
Quelaag attacks us silently on her own; we probably wouldn't have even been able to understand her without the Old Witch's Ring. Fina...isn't actually in the game, and so you couldn't kill you even if you wanted to, and the reason we collect the souls is to enter the Kiln, not to give them to the First Flame.
Sloth HQ Would you kindly...lol
Try saying No to Kingseeker Frampt in a fresh playthrough. The implication of his response is that you are unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and that he may expect more undead to come along eventually
DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN!!!!
This is by far one of the best lore videos I think I've seen on Dark Souls 1. Everything is beautifully presented and backed up by great evidence, I can't wait to see more from you!
i love how in depth you get theres not many games with lore as good as dark souls
your theory that king jeremiah is the father of the daughters of chaos and ceaseless and the prince of chaos blew my mind.
I think you should include music from berserk and kingsfield into your background music as well as they certainly arent out of place
Good idea. I plan to start integrating more variety with music
As a matter of fact since Xanthous King means Yellow king we could make the relationship with a Chutulu mythos character, the King in Yellow is an Avatar of Hastur, so named because of his appearance as a thin, floating man covered in tattered yellow robes, removing the mask is a sanity-shattering experience; the King's face is described as "inhuman eyes in a suppurating sea of stubby maggot-like mouths; liquescent flesh, tumorous and gelid, floating and reforming, so Hastur is an old one which could be considered a demon and both characters have a really ugly face XD
this whole "rediscover the lore" series is great since dark souls 3 shed alot of light on the lore of the series
Vaati new video on Izalith is basically a resume on your video and with one day the video has more visualization than yours, I am sad about this... Like you have the best lore video about quantity of lore/theory, how come people don't see your videos?
largely youtube algorithms, its hard for people to find out about us.
well i found out about you thru Vaati's recommendation, so expect more viewers now he has shouted out your excellent work. :)
the voice!!! vaati has such a smooth voice xD
The better is always on the underground, friend.
@sickhouse after hearing how vaati talks on his live streams, hearing his dark souls videos makes him sound super pretentious and fake
We have to go deeper...
Mind blown on Xanthous, not only on this but because Orbeck in DkS3 calls the Xanthous scholars sorcerers. THAT plays right into the witches of Izalith because they were sorcerers that use chaos pyromancy.
Then again though, there is a difference between pyromancers and sorcerers, so this may actually disprove that part a bit.
@@randomusername.5605 true, but Flame Sorcery also came from Izalith. It was forgotten in favour of Pyromancy, but Demon Firesage still uses it. Maybe these scholars were trying to study the ancient Demon culture, the one before the "engulfment"?
@@randomusername.5605 There is the Izalith Staff in DS3, which feeds off of the same stats as Pyromancy does, and is intended for Dark Sorceries, so the connection from Izalith to Sorcery is definitely there, even though they are by far the most well known for their Pyromancy. It may very well even be that the Xanthous Scholars are studying Sorcery that has nothing to do with Izalith's own, but that simply because of its proximity to Izalith, is assumed to be similar.
Man I'm extremely excited for this series. You've done a tremendous job.
I know that you are focusing on Dark souls I right now. But I desire to know what do you think about Quelana Pyromancy Tome found by dead giant spider corpse in Dark Souls III? Especially When description states:
"Quelana, the sole surviving witch of Izalith, once accepted a human pupil, but after the pupil moved on, she never took another."
This implies that Salaman was her only student.
hm. or that we never told anyone who we were taught by. or that we were the last human pupil? the more interesting implication is that she killed her sister. we wrote this video before ds3 and a spell of quelanas by her dead sister is pretty convincing that we were right.
@@Hawkshaw Extremely old, but I would say that since the Soul of Cinder (the deific manifestation of all Lords of Cinder) uses normal pyromancies, not *Chaos* Pyromancies, is solid evidence that none of the Chosen Undead were students of Quelana.
@@Mare_Man Quelana don't know chaos pyromancies only the " usual " of the great swamp that she teached to Salaman so it's possible to think that she teached her art to the chosen undead as well
I'm still not entirely convinced, i can believe that she wanted us and others to kill her family, but i'm not sure that her intentions were entirely evil, maybe she never understood the Chaos itself (because she only teaches her pyromancies, not the ones from Izalith), and couldn't comprehend why her sisters were happy with the "mostrosities" they became
I'm not trying to defend her, but we have not enough clue of why she hates her family so much, there has to be a meaningful reason as to why she go as far as developing a pyromancy to control undeads and why she tries to hide it that she hates them
Hi guys, this episode now has subtitles too! Enjoy
you made a very compelling case for jeremiah being the father of the daughters of chaos, i dont know if you know that but it apears that isalith is a combination of the words isfet which means chaos in egyption mythology and lilith which means "nightly" in hebrew and is also a specific species of owl BUT she is also the mother of demons and the first woman in hebrew mythology. so if isalith has more connections to hebrew names and words it also supports your theory about jeremiah since his name would also originated from hebrew mythology. you might wanna check out the ashen hollow's video about chaos and dark and the identity of velka if you havent already
Well i wonder if this demon is ma or youkai, if it just youkai it even closer to in between theory
Hawkshaw This video is gold, would you allow me to translate your subs into italian?
Vaati sent me here. I am not disapoointed. Now subscribed.
Put colaborative subtitles for we translate for portuguese.
The fact that Jeremiah was indeed linked with a chaos parasite would in my eyes be strengthened by the fact that in Dark Souls 3 the Xanthous Crown is actually caved-in. And several items mention that the chaos flame too, is fading. You find a lot of dead demons in areas and it could be that the demon that was in the crown has too died out.
The witch of Izalith, Demons, and Pyromancy are all my favorite parts of the Dark Souls series. I’m glad to see a video that gives such thorough love and care to their lore and history, that finally gave quite a few answers to many questions I had.
Pretty surprised you didn't draw any parallels between the Xanthous gear's little belt(?) things on the back and the blacksmith in the catacomb's face growths(?)
They look pretty similar to me. It's a flimsy connection but it does what FromSoft does best: raises more questions than it answers
Just posted a comment pointing the same thing out ; )
Lautrec has something similar on the front of his armour .
The bit about Jeremiah and the worm creature in Blighttown was just fantastic. Mind blown.
I have no clue how I never heard of your Chanel but oh my god your lore videos are so unique and complete you really deserve my like and subscription
Don’t know how I haven’t found this channel earlier, your lore speculation is endlessly entertaining
You're Pronunciation is ON POINT.
I nearly came when you said Tattered Cloth Manchette @ 21:22 with the proper french accent
You deserve more views my friend! Detailed and well researched material without the ridiculous overly dramatic voice. Loved it!
+James Maillet Cheers! It'd be a great help to spread the word where you can
I always found the story and lore of Dark Souls to be above and beyond most other games, and that's what makes it special. But this analysis of the lore is incredible. If only this much thought and dedication were put into more games.
Wow..... when you went into detail about the poison that affected the Fair Lady... makes total sense! I really hope that one day you may make an updated version of this video with more evidence provided by DS3 ^^
One of my favorite things about these Hawkshaw videos (every one of which I have seen several times now) is the unique, yet consistent character builds walking us through areas being discussed throughout a playthrough.
The Fashion Souls, weapon choices, it's always very interesting to see how these absolute legends are playing.
It seems a reference to ‘the king in yellow” from Lovecraft
If Jeremiah was the king of Izalith, I think It's less of a stretch to think Gwyn was the one to exile him, and locked him away as a hostage of sorts, to end the war.
Anyways, it leads me to question the outlandish and unknown pyromancies in The Painted World. Since pyromancers are pretty rare, it would be strange for just some pyromancer never mentioned anywhere to end up in the painted world with/before him. I'll need to think about this.
Or some sort of prize for victory; "to capture and imprison the king of the enemy nation."
Their logic for having xanthous's betrayal be the cause for the witch's fall is good though, but it does seem unlikely that there xanthous would be exiled; then go to anor londo and enter a painting to... escape? Is pretty loose. I think more likely there was mounting tension between the two nations and jerimiah got seduced by thena, as part of a ploy to destabilize izaleth. He gets seduced up to anor londo; only to be captured and imprisoned
+Tar Alacrin Gwyn cannot exile a King of the region he is at war with Xerxesrogue, that doesn't make sense. Do you mean capture as opposed to exile? It is explicitly stated that he was exiled so "prize for victory" or capturing is not a possibility. Instead it is in fact extremely likely that Jeremiah would go to Anor Londo after exile, since he would have wanted to see Fina who lived there and he was no longer an enemy of Gwyn, who has always been open to turncoats. Why he enters the painting is likely a later development. Perhaps as the growth develops he is spurned by Fina and therefore goes to the painted world as all monsters who are spurned often do. In response to the pyromancers: these have nothing to do with Xanthous. they are also exiles/driven from their home, but have been driven from the great swamp. They like Eingyi adopted the use of poisonous pyromancies and were exiled. Their bloated toxic heads are what happens when the blightpus is not removed as it was for Eingyi. I also don't believe exiles come to the painted world through the painting, or not always. In berserk when you are in a bad enough state you can be drawn into the astral world by a behelit. In priscilla's case perhaps this is the doll. They all desperately want to escape and have a home and so are transported there somehow.. I don't know and haven't thought about this function but priscilla, the crows and the skeleton wheels etc didn't trot through the cathedral into the painting.
+Hawkshaw Good point on the exile thing. I was coming from the assumtion that everything (pre-demon war) was sort of technically under the rule of gwyn from anor londo, even if it was only in lip-service. Thus banishment to the painted world could still be exile.
I don't think the growths were developed afterwards, since it states in the description of his armor that "no one knows where it came from", which seems to imply to me that he already had the strange armor and strange headwrap when he "appeared on the scene" so to speak. But that's super thin.
That "no one knows where it came from" is an interesting wrench though, because if he was the king of Izaleth and was exiled; surely people would know where his strange garb came from, right? King of one of the two biggest nations isn't exactly a low profile gig. I think they are probably talking from the perspective of the legend told about him and Fina. (his armor says "Legendary exile" her ring says "known in Legend to posess fateful beauty" it seems that they may be both known through the same legend told about the exile and the goddess) if this is the case, then we could probably dismiss the line as "nobody knowing" referring to the fact that none of the common folk who are talking about this legend and passing it down know .
Idk, anyways I don't think I said this; but brilliant find on the jeremiah izaleth connection, love this channel.
As for the Painted World; I think its definitely not a natural place or it was originally a natural place that is now accessed via a painting; Priscilla says that "Ariamis created this world" and even the name being the "painted world" implies that the world was created with the painting. Even the way you exit the world being to jump off the cliff which spits you out of the painting implies that the painting is more than just a mere portal to an already existing land. And Priscilla's soul refers to her being "inside the painted world", which implies that the world exists magically within the painting, rather than just being a real location far away or something.
Furthermore I think there are a few clues that bring the idea that the purpose of the Painted World is a sanctuary for misfits into question; Why are there so many pieces of anti-Lord items hidden within; (Dark Ember used for creating weapons effective against Lords, all sorts of things associated with Velka who is described as a rogue deity, Velka's rapier also has the occult trait) And even more importantly why does Priscilla's soul and her scythe describe her as being "Trapped inside the painted world of ariamis"? If it is just a sanctuary for the castaways.
I believe that the painted World was created to hide things away from the rest of the world, things that were feared by the gods, or that the gods didn't want to be destroyed but didn't want others to know about or have access to, etc. Thats why the place is so full of things that the gods fear; heck even Priscilla was "feared by the gods" for her lifehunt ability, also for being a bastard crossbreed that could cause some weird PR issues. I think that despite its original cause for creation, the place turned out, it wound up becoming a sanctuary of sorts, due I'm sure in part to the kindness of Priscilla watching over everything. I believe that Some of these things were also preserved in case gwyn needed to use them later down the line against other Lords. ie; having a bunch of occult weaponry on hand is real useful if he ever had to go to war with Nito or the Witch of Izaleth. Its kind of like his store of WMDs.
There's more to this puzzle if we look at the painting guardians. Their set talks about how they have been guarding the painting of Ariamis for Ages; so long in fact that they have forgotten why they guard it. Their sword also gives mention that they have been striking down any that "dare threaten the painting" for generations. So its clear that they aren't guarding things from exiting the painting; rather stopping any that might destroy or damage it or its contents in any way. So if they are protecting the painting from external threats; who are they protecting it from? Well, if we look at the armor set description we see that it specifically points out how the armor has a very high magic resist. This further supports the idea that the place is not just a sanctuary; because the painting guardians are fairly ill equipped to fight against Gwyn and his army or anyone with lightning or physical attacks; who would be the most likely people that everyone is be wanting sanctuary from.
Now who in the universe has a motive for breaking in to the painting and is also heavily linked with magic? Well, it just so happens that two names spring to mind, and both have fairly strong motives for doing just that. Velka and her agents have strong ties to magic, and it seems that she could be one potential attacker, after all, much of what the painting has locked away are hers in the first place, and she already seems to be at odds with the gods somehow, and surely the more occult weaponry she can obtain, the better. On the other hand we have Seath, obviously heavily linked to magic, and a verified turncoat already so I wouldn't put it past him to want to either attack the gods or have safeguards against them should they attack him first. and furthermore, the Painted World contains someone who is very likely his child; a child that he probably doesn't have as much revulsion for as the gods do.I think the painted world may actually specifically have been created to hide and protect things from falling into the hands of those two.
All that to say though, I think that there has to be more to the tale of King Jeremiah how he ended up in the painted world than simply fleeing there, since it would be difficult to just flee past the painting guardians, who would surely wish to prevent him from entering unbidden, and as per my previous points it seems more like the painted world is a hidden prison for the gods to lock away things that they fear or they don't want to deal with, rather than a sanctuary for those who don't fit in.
Also, side note; why the heck is there a Berenike knight in the painted world? Did he travel with tarkus to anor londo then somehow get trapped in there as well? Was he thrown in? or did he just wander in? Thats a weird one. And one that quite frankly I don't think it has a satisfying answer.
Interestingly enough, Velka's Rapier also describes Velka as being a "black haired witch" and well versed in "all manners of sorcery". I wonder if Velka was one of the fragments of manus? I feel like she fits the bill working against the Lords, being super manipulative, Being associated with the Dark and the Occult... I'm sure I could find more evidence if I took the time. But its more likely than she was just this super powerful goddess that kinda materialized out of nowhere with no connections to anything or anyone else.
+Hawkshaw Too explain my speculation a bit more, it was grounded mostly in a thought of Gwyn winning the war or just conquered Izalith, and what then? Would he have killed the queen, one of the four lords? Would he wipe the demons from existence, or have any interest in occupying the lands for himself? Because if not, a good answer to end the war in peace (more or less), and put an end to future retaliation from Izalith, would be to bring the king with him back to Anor Londo, even if it would piss the queen off immensely.
I will admit, exile becomes a bit of a strange choice of words at this point, and after thinking about it some more, the Fina connection is a bit too unlikely to be completely random.
My point about the pyromancers is that in the description of Fire Surge and Acid Surge, it is clearly stated that they are not from the great swamp, and given nothing links these spells to Izalith either. It's unlikely that they are from Blighttown originally. Outside of Eingyi, Quelana and Laurentius making appearances there, the only pyromancer there, is the corpse with Power Within on it (if the body with Laurentius' set, and poison mist on it belongs to Laurentius). If the pyromancers had any connection to Blighttown, you would probably be able to find one of the Surge spells there, and the other in The Painted World, but we don't. There is nothing really to go on, in who these pyromancers are, but we just find them along with Jeremiah, in The Painted World. You could be right in that they are just outcast, which is kind of likely, since Laurentius' spesifically implies pyromancers often are, given the nature of their practice. Even so, why The Painted World?
Thanks for the reply though, and keep up the good work. These videos keeps me thinking about Dark Souls 1 lore even still, after 2 sequels a handful of years, and frequent playing. They, along with playing DS3 recently really just undermines, and remind me how good the first game really is, and how wonderful it is to dig into.
Honestly, DS3 made Jeremiah's connection to Izalith even stronger when it clarified that they are scholars of Oolacile's light sorceries. Perhaps he was of Oolacile, and allied with Izalith after witnessing the destruction of his homeland and its "root cause" being Gwyn's regime.
It would also explain why he's in the painted world, he wasn't hiding, but a prisoner of the gods. The painted world is just as much a place to hide as it is a dumping ground for anything the gods don't like and/or are afraid of.
@@shambleshef exactly.
"Naedoko" refers to a nursery in a botanical sense. It means "seedbed". "Nae" means a seedling. A nursery for young children would be "Hoikuen" or "Ikuji Shitsu". This tracks better with how Bed of Chaos is a tree, the Asylum, Stray and Firesage Demons look treelike, Kirk has thorns, the Capra Demon's "belt" looks like twigs, and catalysts look like branches even when made of rock. I hope this helps.
This is by far the most extensive and meticulous overview of demon lore I have ever seen. Your videos are astounding. If you keep it up, I think you'll be the new Vaati.
This is priceless, man. Thanks a lot, I enjoyed like a little child with both videos. Congrats for the astonishing work.
You are the first dark souls lore youtuber I have seen who has examined Quelana and her intentions so well. I look forward to future videos.
Great work with these videos! I enjoy seeing new ideas and theories about the lore showing up, especially so long after the game's release.
I was thoroughly impressed with the timeline video: things like establishing that Lordran was built before the war against the dragons, or that the Bed of Chaos was stable and under control for a time, were insights into things that I had never thought about before.
Now, we're seeing the idea that there was a culture of demons, that the demons were willing subjects to demonhood, and that the motivations of characters like Quelana should be placed under scrutiny. Great new ideas that haven't been seen elsewhere.
I'm excited to see what you have coming up next, hopefully soon.
+broomguy7 The next things to come should be both shorter but also faster, I'm hoping. Glad to hear you've enjoyed it so much
Ridiculously well done, these theories is why I love Dark Souls lore so much, the fact that your mind gets more opened up everytime you browse a video or a forum and people notices large or very small details about something you, yourself, thought you had a grasp on only to be blown away how different things "might" be.
This is actually thrilling.You have done such an AMAZING job with these lore videos I am sure most of us gained a whole new perspective of things after so many years.You actually provide solid facts,unlike most other famous dark souls lore UA-camrs who simply speculate when things start to get unclear,and I understand it took a huge effort to research and provide us with this information.Your work is a piece of art!
Waaay too underrated channel.You deserve much more attention from the community for the effort you have made.
Hope you also make lore videos about the other two installments of the series!
its not a work of art so much as it is a work of science lol
I JUST found this channel last night and its blowing my freaking mind. Got me going back through dark souls looking at symbols around the undead parish for hours lol
Such amazing stuff, crazy I've never seen these
Praise the lore! I've been waiting for this!
+Natusake Sorry for the long wait, Praise the lore!
+Hawkshaw Do you have any idea when the next one will be because these are great.
+Obi Wan Kenobi in about 10 days there will be another, shorter video, starting our "stories of the gods" series.
+Hawkshaw PRAISE THE LORE! =D
+Hawkshaw dude these are crazy good, this needs a lot more views
*VERY GOOD*
*I’M SOR-RY*
Its interesting that in ds3, demons are all but extinct due too their parasitic nature and dependence on the first flame
But what about the fire, stray and cleric demons?
@@Supremacy-wg8jc Extinction can mean not only the destruction of a species, but the destruction of its ability to reproduce.
@@Supremacy-wg8jc he said all but
@@Supremacy-wg8jc even with a few specimens alive a species unable to reproduce is extinct.
Good End
This is my #1 favorite Dark Souls lore video. I LOVE this subject, about new beings creating a new culture, about how we can see new things as evil, and while playing the game, we end up accepting the viewpoints of everybody who would see the demons as monsters, while ignoring their point of view to discover that they're not that. That the city got the size it is with its civilization and culture after the demons were created and that they embraced it only makes me like the lore of that game more. Thank you for making this video!
I'm so glad your channel is getting the recognition it deserves. You've been found EXTREMELY in depth on the lore and I'm glad to see your channel thriving. Keep going friend, God Speed!
Quelana has way more depth than I expected.
How could Quelana use Rapport to "infect" her sister through Eingyi, if the Fair Lady willingly accept the fate she is living? Eingyi says:
"Worse than Undead, we are diseased, and unwanted.
Like the grime of the Great Swamp.
But my dear, Fair Lady! She cried for me…
And swallowed the great Blightpus, despite Mistress Quelaag's orders to the contrary."
So it seems more likely that the Fair Lady made this choice, rather than it being thrust upon her. Also considering how kind-hearted the Fair Lady is, I think that goes against the thought of people making the choice to become a demon. But that of course, is just my own speculation on it.
hiya. it doesn't require it to be forced. if you know she's kind hearted you can send a poisoned, deluded eingyi down there hoping that she will cure him and infect herself. of course she made a choice. an example that comes to mind because of our nito in love interpretation is how penelope isn't forced to eat the pomegranate. its placed there temptingly.
as to kind hearted demon analogy, i believe we show or at least try to show that demons aren't intrinsically evil so the assumption that she wouldnt become a demon because she is kind doesn't apply. the demons keep to themselves. in addition it could be done from a position of ignorance if they were among the first to transform.
I see where you are coming from. To me it just seems that the people from the Great Swamp who became these egg-bearers were all equally diseased and the Fair Lady swallowed up that disease to help them. Then in turn the began to serve the Flame of Chaos. But again, that is just my interpretation, and the whole point of Dark Souls is creating as many unique stories as we can. So I definitely still enjoy the theory you've created here! =)
... I wouldn't say that the undead legend is a "false prophecy", mainly because the result and purpose of linking the flame still works. I'd say that it's more of a "deceptive prophecy".
Self fulfilling prophecy perhaps
Deceptive and self-fulfilling both work.
Well, it's not really a prophecy, is it? More of a scheme. The creation of a religious flavor surrounding the plot is what makes it a "prophecy", and when that is revealed to be naught more than the scheme of those who would do anything to hold onto what little power they have left?
I can’t wait to learn the deep lore of why there’s randomly 50 sentient dragon dumptrucks in the middle of this hellhole.
Quellag Hugging her Spider was the cutest thing I've seen in Dark Souls
No one ever suggests it, but I always thought that the bat wing demons were perhaps silver knights corrupted by the chaos. Given their horns and bodies matching with the silver knight armor and the spears having lightning enchantments, not to mention their locations, uses, and color schemes... Like they're the survivors from the war on demons.
Thank you for putting so much effort into your videos. It's intellects like you that keep the community flourishing. Thank you!
Sent here by Vati, and between you and me, i like your longer videos ;) awesome work buddy!
The long wait between videos was well worth it! I've watched bed rewatched nearly every video on Dark souls lore in existence, and this is easily the most thorough and comprehensive lore analysis. Thanks Hawkshaw!
I show this is to all my lore-loving dark souls friend because I think the whole community needs to see it. Still looking forward to Izalith story of the gods, someday...
very good lore ideas. gave me a whole new perspective on the witches of izalith and how she didnt turn to chaos for power but instead to detatch herself from humanity and all its emotional pain. i always wondered why they never mentioned a father and this makes a lot of sense. keep making videos man
Good work on making not episodes, but monuments to Dark Souls lore! keep it up!
+Snowbrawler you get it man. you get it. hope you enjoyed and look out for more.
+Hawkshaw I will, really liked the DS timeline episode, if you manage to pull off one for each game i'll be staggered :p
Tremendous, fantastic video! I always thought trading the Xanthous crown to the crow for the fav ring was a little off, it didn't make sense to me since I related Fina to Lautrec only. I wonder who ceaseless's father is? taking into account his size and zombie like appearance I dare say it was Nito.
+Karolus Magnus ahh good question. we have an idea, I'm afraid our idea isn't Nito though.. its so caught up in so much it will be one big video. But look out for Nito in our upcoming vid!
Hawkshaw hope it comes out soon, you really poked my curiosity with your videos, thank for answering.
Just finished watching the Time Line video and now on to this one. I do love Vaati's videos but I have to say the amount of work and dedication you have put into these has rekindled my love of the series once more. You sir are the true Scholar of the First Sin.
Seeing those ornaments on Jeremiahs Coat looking like the stuff that Vamos has on it's face and the fact that his helmet is bright yellow like Jeremiahs clothes I couldn't hold back a giant "Holy fuck" flying out of my mouth.
For a moment I thought he was a brother of the daughers or somehow connected to the witches of izalith, because of the text of his helmet and his knowledge of the izalith embers.
Any final thoughts from you on a possible connection between Jeremiah and Vamos?
Also: I always make sure to save Laurentius so he doesn't get hollow because I really like him. And from now on I add "Annihilate Quelana" to that list for every upcoming run of DS1.
There are some really amazing & well developed theories in this video. some are even mindblowing and give me a new appreciation for dark souls lore. of coz its not like i'm agreed to everything for there are things that feel doesn't add up, but given the amount of content & effort put into this vid its upsetting to see the number of view so far.
Perhaps soon we can debate things openly with engaged people like yourself. Yes- we can use all the help we can get!
I still think the chaos bug at the center IS the Witch of Izalith herself.
I find it interesting we can see the two smaller daughters of chaos clearly the one protecting the Bed and Quelana. And the other three seemingly Quelaag, Quelaan (The Fair Lady), and the deceased sister that Ceaseless mourns.
Glad that peeps now know the true lore of Izalith. Loki and his translations really helped the community out.
Great video my dude.
A long time ago I saw your videos but today I listened to them 🔥, and after hearing tons of other dark souls lore the timeline you present is undoubtedly my favorite!
This is awesome. Really nice to listen to when playing some relaxing games. Keep it up and I can't wait for the next episode.
The sad thing is you find a body you assume to be Quelanna next to the Fair Lady’s body in Dark Souls 3 in the Demon Ruins. Unless it is someone else.
This video was incredible. What I would give for a comprehensive video encapsulating your thoughts on combined DS1 and DS3 lore... A man can dream
I don't think it is a coincidence that the straps on the back of Jeremiah's torso armor resemble Vamos' beard.
I watched Vaati's video several times and was enamoured by it, thinking that it was genius. Now I know that the real genius is you, the most thorough Dark Souls I UA-camr there has ever been.
If Izalith is in fact a demon settlement and the buildings are not vestiges of more humanlike folks from before, then why does the still heavily inhabited Izalith seem to be decaying and falling apart?
The Witch of Izalith did still lose control of the flame of chaos, it just didn't happen until much later than most think.
Damn, just when I thought I knew everything about DS1 lore, I stumble upon this. Your theory with Eingyi being controlled by Quelana, the bug being a son of the witch and Jeremiah being the King of Izalith blew my mind!
Dark Souls lore is so interesting. No game or fictional universe has me invested as much as it.
The music that went with this was amazingly done, I got got here from vaati but I am sticking on by myself now. You have fleshed out so much and presented it very well. I look forwards to more.
ive just discovered this after vaati linked it in the description of his vid.
And i'm in awe. you've earned a new subscriber after almost 3 years and im definitely spreading the word
This is by far the best and most informative series of lore videos out there. Keep up the great work man.
These vids are super interesting, but they’re also hella comfy to fall asleep to. This guys voice at low volume soothes me right to sleep lol
21:33 probably the craziest video clip ever shown. I can’t believe I looked over such lore implications!
Hawkshaw and crew (if there are any) are defo the World of Warcrafts Nobbel of Dark Souls! Can't wait to watch more!
Xanthous King could be a reference to Hastur, the King in Yellow. Part of the extended Cthulu mythos and an Old One, he has a rivalry with Cthulu and created and expands a cult to destroy him.
Oh my god, how do you read this deep into the lore? You're my hero
im so amazed that people like you and Vati still can make vids that are interesting about this game :D
I really like your idea of Chaos being a kind of addiction. Viewing it through that lense Quelana makes alot more sense. The mother of heroin addict will say their child is suffering, but the addict themselves would not.
Nearly a decade I have been playing this game and yet I still find new ways of interpreting it; like considering Jerimiahs links to Izaleth. It's why I love this series!
You convinced me with a lot but I don't buy certain things.
Like how Qualana faked her own death. I'm guessing you base this on the clothes description of the Gold Hemmed set. If you count that corpse with Ceaseless as a daughter of Chaos then all the daughters will be accounted for. Quelana isn't the only one that has that outfit. The npc before the bed of chaos does too and the cutscenes show all daughters fully robed in the same or very similar cloth.
You say the daughters of chaos aren't suffering. But they are hardly doing well for themselves. 1 is dying from poison, 2 are bound to the witch without bodies, 1 is dead near Ceaseless and Quelana left and possibly betrayed them. The witch herself is in a depression and perhaps, judging from the roots (they seem lifeless to me), also possibly dying. All before you even see Quelaag. However I do believe they changed into demons by their own choice now.
Are the daughters really family btw? For some reason I always thought they were more like teacher and pupils, like a witch coven or a religious thing like nuns. Witches call other witches, sisters right?
You also say king Jeremiah might have a demon head, but it could just as easily be blighted like the others you find in the Painted World. I always thought he had some connection to Blighttown because of those toxic heads in the painting who have fire spells but are also weak to fire. What if he was exiled to Blighttown, left with his followers and was poisoned there.
This makes it even creepier that you can see the asylum demon peeking at you from above.
hey thats genious, I really enjoyed this alot, especially the part about Jeremiah. Before I could never wrap my head around (haha) his connection to izalith and I thought he simply was a callback to demons souls.
Glad to now believe he´s much more than that.
Amazing encapsulation of the Dark Souls universe. I don't think Dark Souls lore has ever made so much sense as it does after watching these thoroughly researched videos you've put out. Fantastic job!
I started off thinking I didn't agree with everything, but by the end, all I can say is an amazing video.
Well this is definitely the best explanation I could find for the Asylum Demon.
Personally I still think Quelanna believes its the right thing and that the demons have become more savage losing the social complexity they once had, I mean, they obviously aren't repairing their crumbling home and they make weapons out of each other.
I like the idea of the Capra Demon actually having tea with his dogs as he reads the newspaper before we bother him
I like your views "Demons are just something people call those they do not understand". This is so right. What do you call someone you don't understand and is acting crazy? "They are possessed by a demon". Also, in the other video I couldn't reply to your comment but don't apologize for the audio sounding off. Keep up the great work!
You know it's possible for people to go to other places, right? Just because the Eldest Daughter is currently closer to the Witch/Seedbed than Quelaag and the Fair Lady, does not mean she was closer when shit went down. They didn't all stay in the exact same spot for centuries.
Make more videos please. Your stuff is amazing and has changed and added so much perspective into this game i love
Worth noting that a popular series of books written in the late 1800s was called the "yellow" series and in the books a play called "the king in yellow" is referenced. Reading this play leads the reader to madness. Interestingly enough this books series was VERY popular in Japan. Jeremiahs fall may have been associated with forbidden knowledge. Here is a link
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_in_Yellow