1978 Firebird Weiand 144 Supercharger Rattle and Input Shaft/Coupler Swap (Ep.11)
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- Опубліковано 24 січ 2020
- Ever since installing the Weiand 144 supercharger onto our 1978 Pontiac Firebird project car, it has had quite a lot of “rattle” when the engine is idling. Research shows that some amount is common and not a concern, but it seems like there is too much, and the loose fit between the input shaft and the coupler does not inspire confidence. So, we bought new ones that fit much (much!) tighter and we will go on a little adventure getting those parts installed. Or trying to install them. Not everything goes as planned but, as usual, we figure out a way to work things out!
We also install a blower case breather to try to prevent oil leakage and some other issues that we notice when taking the blower back apart. Some of which were pretty concerning!
Special shout-outs to some of the folks involved in making this video:
Sean
/ doopatroopa
/ aznfootball7
Nettie
/ wayward.wannabe
Rob
/ magic.spoolbus
/ m4j0rr0b
Neil
/ triptheroad
/ @triptheroad
Dates of filming: January 7th, 2019 (Input Shaft/Coupler Clearancing)
April 27th, 2019 (Input Shaft Swap)
April 28th, 2019 (Driving)
April 30th, 2019 (Case Breather Installation)
Song List (Order of First Appearance):
0:01 A Dusty Road - Dan Lebowitz
5:16 Hilltop - Dan Lebowitz
14:04 Glen Canyon - Dan Lebowitz
24:05 Birds in Flight - Dan Lebowitz
31:32 I Wear Headphones - Silent Partner
(All music provided by UA-cam's Audio Library royalty free.)
Thanks for watching, and joining us on this adventure! Please let us know what you think! Consider supporting us via Patreon as well! / fuzzydiceprojects
Follow our Instagram for more pictures and teasers: / fuzzydiceprojects
Check out our second channel for a variety of other content: / @fuzzydicepastimes - Авто та транспорт
The reason I love this channel is because it is the most realistic on the internet. When working on vehicles, nothing ever goes to plan. Nothing ever comes off, or goes together perfectly, and sometimes the machines can be downright bewildering. This channel does not try and hide these facts at all. Thus it is the most realistic, and therefore the most helpful.
Watch Chris fix
Jacob Presler never ever ever ever do things go to plan lol. Its always something. Most of the time, its new parts that don’t fit right in my experience
@@memesquad30 I love Chrisfix too, wonderful videos. But he either does some editing or he's been greatly blessed by the automotive gods.
They were right, the kit wouldn't work for you... because they often put the wrong parts in 'em.
"To install this bearing we are going to submerge the whole snout in loctite before hammering it on, we then will wipe off any ecess loctite."
One thing about it, you learn a lot by doing it all yourself. Something missing with a lot of people today. As teenage kids in the 70s we were pulling engines and Transmissions, rebuilding Etc. You don't see that today very much.
Why would they when you can just “buy a crate motor”? Grrrr. Hate that!!
A boring Saturday night in then Fuzzy Dice swing in to save the day. Top video as always
"That's never stopped anyone with a saw before" spoken like a true genius.
Finally a video on the firebird
“Cardboard saves the day” 😂
There comes a point when you have to decide “cruiser or bruiser”. Unless you’re trying to add to your ticket collection, massive power and top speed are irrelevant. Reliability and comfort should take precedence on a cruiser build.
Great video! You are right, don't get caught up on horse power. Make it fun to drive and dependable. Man that part where you were going over the bridge & talking about enjoying the car you put the work into. I with you brother there is no better feeling!
Another classic from my favorite channel, you're the man Mike
Lol after u closed the hood it sounded like it was making way more noise
This is the best video ive ever seen about these blowers, good job, i just watched your whole 30 min video
The straight fitting for the breather was actually the better choice. It's really unlikely, but if oil decides to work it's way up there it'll have a harder time getting to the actual line than it would with a 90° fitting.
Good point! That was also part of the thinking too. Some of these blowers have front case covers with a little splash guard underneath the oil fill plug, which would also help. Struggling to remember right now but don't think this unit has any kind of internal splash guard.
It's weird seeing local landmarks in a video. Had the same feeling when Top Gear was in the neighborhood several years ago.
Great video, Kudos to you for following your mechanical instincts. Blowers are inherently "noisy" because of the gear lash, if you change to a gear driven timing set rather than the typical timing chain in an engine it will do the same thing because the timing gears for the engine need to have a certain amount of lash as well. But (and that is a HUGE but) that original shaft and coupler were garbage , there should NEVER be that much play there. when you first wiggled it on the shaft I cringed. Good job identifying and fixing the correct problem. Keep them coming I need to fell like I am still alive and wrenching on something lol . (disabled life vicariously) Sincerely, A Fan
P.S. I am sorry about the idiot that you spoke to at the Weiand customer service must have come from the Holley carb side lol, that person did not know what they were talking about with a blower (Super charger) I am old and when I was building engines everyone called them blowers lol
Loctite the threads and anti-seize the shanks works out just great. I usually use that trick with with RTV to seal the shanks on stuff like thermostat housing bolts just to play it safe.
That weird little cap head bolt is called a low-clearance fastener. You should be able to get a replacement at any real hardware store (like Fastenal, McMaster, Granger, etc) so then you don't have to play the thermostat housing dating game and just continue to use that solution.
I also can't say I've ever seen anyone rebuild a seal before. lol!
...and that blower whine is so cool. That thing needs to find a home on the Blazer when you're done with it on the 'bird.
I found some of those low-clearance bolts online but only in bulk and with tiny hexes. Forgot that there is a Granger in the area, should have checked there to see if I could just get a few of them. Would want a torx one though, otherwise the tiny hex would probably just strip out again on the new bolts, couldn't find one but that certainly doesn't mean they don't exist.
Glad to hear I'm doing things that nobody else is crazy (silly?) enough to do lol.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Not sure what size you need, but I'm seeing a 1/4"-20 as having an 1/8" allen drive in low clearance applications. That's really not all of that tiny for the torque required. I don't know if I've ever seen one in torx before, but they probably exist. I suppose the alternative is to buy the hex heads in bulk and pound a torx into them every time, and replace as needed. haha
Anyhow... Try Fastenal too if you can (also, maybe Napa). Or if you have a buddy that works in a factory, the tool crib probably has them... they won't miss just 1, or 5.
That seal made me laugh, man. :)
I simply love it when you drop these vids for my saturday night viewing pleasure =D
Really like this series. Nice work!
Thanks for the entertainment. Got my mind off work for a while and some motivation to finish my supercharged project. Thanks for sharing!
Just came across this channel and glad I did. It's nice to see people showing the problems that come up while working on a project. Got my sub 👍
I actually thought you were gonna supercharge the other firebird xD
Love the work you put into your videos man!
Gotta love that bay bridge traffic..watch out for Easton and cambridge cops
Great video and love the editing. Nice job.
I really enjoy your content! Keep up the good work :)
That last part made me cry.. just kidding... good job bro
The for keepin the pontiacs alive 😆 crazy build cant wait to see it at the drag strip subscribed
A long drive in a car youve poured your blood, sweat and loctite into
The explanation is amazing love your videos
Hell yeah man good to see you on the better side of the Bay!
Dee by Gawd, cap'n.
I would love to see you touch up the paint on top. Keep up the great work man!
Good video , excellent narration
Aww, what a sappy ending...I like it!
But seriously, for all the work you've put into this car - a sappy ending balances out the moments that you had not so nice words to say about the kit Weiand let you spend your hard earned cash on. Happy to give this a like.
my Wii and blowers ben rattly Prick from the day I put it on 17 years ago and I'm going to do this to mine the quiet down a little bit if you put some Lucas in the front of it in in place of oil at quiets down the gear lash a lot good video.
The last sentence of this video sums it up nicely.
Please never stop making videos🤣🤘🏻👍🏻
That outro gave me chills dude :) awesome work ;)
Thank you for the video it help me a lot dealing with mine
Completely agree with the last point you made at the end of the video. If you push the project too far in the direction of specialising it, you'll enjoy it less. Because the focus of the car will be soooo tight. I know because I built a custom harley (see my channel). I built it based on what I 'thought' a custom harley should be. Based on what I liked in other people's custom bikes. But I never stopped to really spend too much time thinking about whether it would be 'practical' or 'comfortable'. Well, guess what... Its neither. Which is why I don't ride it very often anymore.
So I basically succeeded in building a GREAT looking and sounding custom bike, which at the same time is useless. I prefer riding my Honda VFR, any day and for many many many more miles than the Harley. Go figure! ;)
You, Ronald finger and his fiero are the nicest content creators.
True, I really wanna see them meetup in their red cars together for a drive.
i'm glad it made a "noizeticable" difference!
wow, all that work and it sounds like schit, that really beats a gearhead down. Ive learned that harmonics vibration will travel to the weakest point and cause failure of many kinds of mechanisms under power.
I love those wheels you've got on the 240
Gotta love bay bridge traffic. And now they’ve found something ELSE to work on lol.
8:57 all mighty ls
Awesome video
Greetings from Sweden :) As allways great content, I really like the detailed commentary, as well as the fact that you share your mistakes and learnings as you go along. That is why your channel is one of my absolute favourites on youtube. Keep up the good work!! :)
Guys, thermodynamics is your friend. Heat and ice your tolerance fits to you don't damage them with force
That's some heavy bass at the end
Love it!
I love watching your videos. Im equally entertained and learning something useful. Love the fact you can poke fun at yourself when you make mistakes. 👍
Hats off to you.
As far as I understood, you installed a different seal between the front and the rear part of the blower - instead of the wet seal used before. This might have 'extended' the shaft housing and created a little axial play for the shaft itself? The additional play could have been a reason for the oil leak around the shaft and maybe added a little noise, too. But - this is just an assumtion.
I really like the narrations and explainations in your videos! Allways have a great time, while cruisin! 👍😎👍
These use a fiber gasket seal (like the one I added) from the factory, the previous owner just tossed it I guess and used Form-A-Gasket. There is consideration to changing the overall length of the snout but I don't think it could have had anything to do with the oil leak or extra play/noise. The looseness in the splines was radial, not axial, the shaft and coupler are a plain old slip fit so that dimension doesn't need to be exact and can move around a bit with heat. The play from the loose splines could have had something to do with the oil leak though, it certainly wasn't helping anything.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Thanks for your reply! Radial play /wear in combination with a bearring is always bad (and often noisy). Maybe there was a lot of tension on the pulley before, or the blower has been used for some time. Anyways - you did a great mechanical job and the car is a very cool classic car. In Germany these start at around 10K€ (about 11K US$) in bad condition and sell around 15 - 20K in fair to good condition. In great condition you can add 10 - 15K. These cars become a lot of attension now and it will increase in the future. So next to the driving experience the car might be nice to keep as an investment. Greetings from "far far away", TOBi! 👋😁
What a great video
Just finished watching the entire video. Great stuff
Currently going through this whole series of bullshit in Brisbane Australia...new Weiand 142 on a 350 SBC. Blower mounted, everything worked for about 150kms and then MASSIVE gear chatter. Big lateral play between snout pulley and the rotors as you turn it by hand...sounds EXACTLY like your car.
Hopefully bearings and seals....love living this far from non-helpful Holley, also wouldn’t trust em after this vid👍
The joy continues 🤔
Next things gear backlash...love ya work mate, hanging out for next
Clip with backlash (I think)
Top job mate...
Wrong parts, poor packing, poor manufacturing, bearings made in China... Yup, Weiand is still the best in superchargers.
For real!! Them assholes could have at least provided an American made bearing. Shit fire!!
Best channel on UA-cam
This is by far my favorite UA-cam channel:) keep up the good work buddy!!
Hey, use a 90 degree fitting on the breather coming out of the blower with the hose tucked in and it looks better..
You're a genius 🥰
Get yourself a good strap wrench. Handy tool to have around for holding pulleys and opening pickle jars.
Good thinking! Didn't even consider that but it seems obvious in hindsight. Have a chain wrench for oil filters that probably would have been a bit easier to use.
Way to go!
Truly all comes down to preference. When I ordered my centrifugal blower for my mustang, I got one with straight cut gears for the noise. Lol. Love the channel!
Love it
30:30 classic bay bridge traffic
Very Nice Video..
Loctite would like to know your location
6:41 The plan worked! No one saw the secret car in the background!
Generally with hardening the parts need to be refitted. They were probably a great fit before hardening but from my experience in the toolroom/ eng. Things change after hardening, have used lapping compound on some male/female screws threads in the past
I hope the car sounds just like the audio and I know it’s the microphone not handling the deep vibration but goddamn it would be hilarious if a car passed you sounding like that
Next time that you have two parts that you are sure go together but they're super tight, you can put one in the freezer and one part in the oven on warm. Should be able to gain a little bit of clearance to marry the two.
The early bird 🦅
Hi, I see the possibility that alot of the gear oil is draining from the charger into the hose from which it runs to the lowest point of the hose and get stuck. So after a while there is a lubrication deficiency of your charger gears. And Sorry for the Bad englisch im from Germany.
There is a sight glass to keep an eye on the actual oil level. However no oil should make it into the tube. It is for vapor pressure only. If oil actually made it up to the tube, it would be a result of it being severely over filled.
Good luck with that Chinese bearing. I’ve never had any good luck with them in the past. I will put a whole job on hold if I get one of them in a package of parts and reorder a Japan marked bearing like KYB or Koyo (preference to the later brand). Those Chinese bearings last a very short time. They also usually do more damage in the end.
Yeah, it was pretty disappointing (though not surprising) to see that's what they were selling. Wouldn't mind swapping it out next time it's out of the car.
Sean!
I was watching the dashboard cam and I was like “is that the Bay Bridge?” Lol yep. Kent Island
It's great knowing hes a fellow Marylander/old bay fanatic
The car does sound good at the end 😂
Ive taken a those pumps apart you have to remove the pulley from the shaft then you can remove the seals and bearings
Epic
One starts to think replacing the turbo charger with one NOT from Weiand might be a good idea :D.
Also as bad as the recording might have been, it reminded me of the old DOS game Street Rod. Ah, the memories...
FYI, the red "paint" on the outside of the seal is actually locktite. The friction of pressing it in creates enough heat to warm it and create a seal. No additional is needed.
I have heard that before, and I believe you are totally correct. Never had a steel clad seal like that walk out either, so it's definitely overkill. Haven't had issue with extra retaining compounds but I doubt it matters much anyway. Picked it up from transmission rebuilding manuals years ago and kinda stuck with me I guess.
@@FuzzyDiceProjects Too much is better than not enough, in this instance.
This is not reflecting well on Weiand
Mike Aaronson idk how old technology is not perfected by now. These sc are sweet but it looks like quality didn’t keep up
Weiand quality has gone to the crapper since they starting outsourcing their parts, the stealth intake manifold is a perfect example for the ford 351m/400 had allot of clearance issues with the thermostat housing to the block interfering. #madeinchina
You could have taken the new seal spring its a streight spring with one end smaller than the other and they basically thread together find where the ends meet unread it cut the spring to length and put the ends back together
Should have used astro glide on the splines. I hear you could put it on a Cadillac and fit it in a doghouse
I may have never used the blower before but I know that I'm put some good engines together but nothing like a 327, and well of course 350 is that good rat motor, but I was used electric fuel pump gets the gas going through them carburetors right quick, much quicker than the mechanical pump
Hi, i know its been a few years but i really enjoyed that video and it is oh so relevant. I have a weiand 144 with exactly the same rattle but cannot find a 91181 input shaft kit anywhere in the world. I dont suppose you have a source? Cheers Scott
Land down under
You need to pump Engine oil in and oil out to valve cover that rubber line to fill up with oil and empty the case
Good story
Don't know if this will help.
Chuckman
4 years ago
Alan Williams hey if your talking about one of these superchargers I had a problem where it was making a lot of clanking noise and it was the teflon strip on the rotor hitting on the side wall of the supercharger and what it came down to was I had changed the nuts on the studs they provided me with the kit to nylon lock nuts and we put the studs in first then put the charger on and tensioned the nuts to 10 pound but it didn't tension the nuts enough or it tensioned to much one or the other and it made the supercharger bow in the middle making the rotors hit so we took the studs out and put the nuts on first with some lock tight waited for the lock tight to dry then tensioned the studs to 10 pound and it fixed the problem
I had the same problem 15 years ago on my b&m 172. The seal and shaft kit are from a b&m.on a b&m the seal is on yhe other side of the bering and the same outer diameter.
I wonder if the splines rattling were constantly pushing out on the input shaft. That damage to the retainer ring seems like a lot more than what would be caused by pressure. I work with water filtration systems that run 200 PSI and use a similar retainer ring and never see that kind of damage.
Personally, I like a little extra tension on a good lip seal.
Loctite blue threadlocker is not a substitute for bearing retainer compound. Use the right stuff like Loctite 620 or 638. And look into getting a proper bearing like an SKF or NSK one instead of the cheaper one that came in the kit.
Motion industries in Rosedale probably would've had that seal.
LIttle bit of valve grinding paste would clearance that quickly. Clean well once you get the clearance you need.
Whenever I see weiand...always complete "yutani" haha.
Hey guys ChrisFix here to remind you to use MEDIUM STRENGTH LOCTITE on everything.
My 177 weiand sounds just like
Yours did but I don’t have the play on the snout to coupler like yours did are they know for gears to make the same noise?
Huh, I just did that drive yesterday...