Visiting Grand Central Madison
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- After over a decade of construction, in January of 2023, the East Side Access project finally opened. Now, the Long Island Railroad has two terminals in Manhattan: the original Penn Station as well as Grand Central Terminal.
The new Grand Central Madison station on the Long Island Railroad is located some 140 feet below the surface. It has allowed commuters to much more easily access the east side of Manhattan.
Since I couldn’t make it to the opening, I am exploring the new station today.
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Date of filming: August 3, 2023
Camera: iPhone 12 - Авто та транспорт
They should make every train station look as pretty as this station.
They should
Very expensive tho
Here's an unknown fact about Bryant Park, it was once the location of the Latting Observatory! I say this because the observatory actually served as inspiration for the EIFFEL TOWER, as Eiffel admitted. The observatory lasted just three years as it was built for a World's Fair in 1853 and burned down in 1856. Here's the history of how the LIRR came to be: The LIRR was chartered back in 1834 to provide a daily service between New York and Boston via a ferry connection between its Greenport terminal on Long Island's North Fork and Stonington, CT. This service was superseded in 1849 by the land route through Connecticut that became part of the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad. When this happened, the LIRR refocused its attentions towards serving Long Islanders.
In the 1870s, railroad president Conrad Poppenhusen and his successor, Austin Corbin acquired all the railroads and consolidated them into the LIRR. Electric operation on the LIRR began in 1905. Both the LIRR and MNR use third rail because when it was built the technology for DC third rail was more heavily used, and better understood. AC overhead lines were a newer technology. Plus third rail is cheaper to build, since it doesn’t require supports for the lines. LIRR was once owned by the Penn RR, and they used third rail for the tunnels entering Manhattan. Penn wouldn't do catenary lines until the 1930s.
Construction commenced in 2007, but as you brought up, the 63rd Street Tunnel included space for LIRR track, and that's because there were plans for something like it as far back as the 1950s, and a new LIRR East Side terminal was first proposed in 1963. However, the reason East Side Access wasn't built back then was lack of funds, so the only thing that got built for it was the space on the 63rd Street Tunnel which was completed in 1989 and also carries F trains, with a station on Roosevelt Island being one of the deepest in the system at 100 feet/30 m. Something to note is that LIRR diesel trains cannot serve Grand Central Madison, and that's because the tunnel was built before the LIRR got bi-levels, so the bi-levels don't fit!
The 42nd Street Shuttle is definitely interesting but also quite iconic and quintessentially NYC! It was originally part of NYC's original subway line but became a shuttle in 1918! Growing up in Westchester County, we always took the Hudson Line into Grand Central, and thus the shuttle as well to get to Times Square whether it was to see a movie, go to the Hershey store, see a musical, or stop at the former Toys R Us flagship store (that place was so magical with an indoor Ferris wheel, Wonka store, T-Rex animatronic, and huge Lego models). When I first collected the Muni-Pal wooden subway trains thanks to the NY Transit Museum store at GCT, the 42nd Street Shuttle was the first one I got. That store was also where I got a Lionel MNR M7.
I miss the giant Ferris wheel…
Yours was the 3rd video I watches about GC Madison. It was the most informative, starting at the original GC Terminal and moving to the new Madison Concourse. Yours was also the only one which explained about the 2 Caverns. Great diagram about how all 8 tracks relate to each other and to the original terminal. Very well done Thom! Thanks!
Wow, thank you for this great feedback!
Your maps and explanations have explained this better than anything else I have seen.
Wow, thank you so much!
Fantastic Video!! Thanks So Much!!!
You’re welcome!
The lady who plays the saw has been a fixture of NYC subways stations for a long time!
I had no idea!
That is an amazing addition to Grand Central station. Beautiful design. It seemed so empty but I assume that’s to be expected for a commuter line when it’s not a peak time. It would be interesting to see it when busy.
(Bryant Park is one of my favourite places in NYC. I hope you have seen it in the winter - it’s just magical!)
It got very busy right as I was leaving
I worked on the control system in Grand Central. The old one, not the new one, and it was a long time ago.
Beautiful❤
Looks like Grand Central Madison is awesome!!! Worth the wait!!! Thanks for bringing it to us!!!
Man, that Station is nice. You actually got to see 2 generations of trains; M8s & M9s. NY really has some nice and a little crazy transit projects; I saw some references to a direct Hoboken -GCT link.
I still miss that part of the Times Square-42nd Street station shuttle platform where you could walk right up to a metal railing, and RIGHT ON the other side was the 1/2/3 line, like, trains-within-hand's-reach close. 🥺
Thanks for this video. I now know how to get to Jamaica Station without going to Penn Station.
I enjoyed that video👍👍
That's funny you were here I work on park Ave and take the LIRR to grand central Madison every day and I told you about it not to long ago
Thom, your presentation on Grand Central Madison is SO timely for me. I've just finished reading David Lassen's article in Trains Magazine July edition on the trio of projects that have made commuting in New York City so much easier for Long Islanders and Metro North Customers. You have completed the picture for me.
I was so glad that you started in Bryant Park, then went to Times Square to commence your exploration of the new facility. Travel on the 42nd street shuttle, then going into the great hall, glancing at the Metro North platforms before descending to the Madison section was a great way to show newcomers, local commuters and travellers like me (visited New York in 1995 - yes, got to go to the top of the original World Trade Center) how to get to the Long Island services. Very Thoughtful and a credit to you.
One thing I noticed that conflicted with Lassen's article was the routing of the Long Island services on the map you showed. Appears that the line loops northerly from Long Island City, crosses under the East River and enters Grand Central in a south-westerly direction rather than from the east as shown on the maps on page 15 of the Trains Magazine.
Now looking at the station layout map on page 21, the placement of the platforms and concourse makes more sense as I understand the concourse once was the stabling yard for trains that terminated at Grand Central and was in a loop configuration below the platforms now served by Metro North. Also the tunnel now used by Long Island trains must have figured in the original design of Grand Central many decades ago.
The combination of your presentation and the Trains Magazine article has answered my questions. Thanks for the timely presentation and I hope you get to view the many UA-cam clips from my part of the world when you need to chill out from your current reality. Cheers from Michael in Melbourne Australia.🙂🙂🙂
I’m happy that you visited Grand Central Madison so keep up the good work.
Thank you, I will!
I know it's not a topic of your video, but you failed to mention the dirt patch left in the ceiling of the main waiting room. You did manage to photograph it when you followed the bird.
Grand Central (and Penn Station) weren't cared for until recently. They never cleaned it. So when the MTA went about restoring the zodiac ceiling to remove decades of diesel soot and nicotine/ tobacco stains from the marble, they left a small patch of dirt as a reminder why things need to be taken care of. You can see the rectangular patch at the 6:18 mark.
You really need 15 minutes to easily walk from the IRT / main waiting room to get to your LIRR train.
Wow - very impressive. Looks great! 😍
So cool 😎 awesome 👏 ❤❤❤💟💟💟 10:50
I need to spend more time in NYC and explore more. I've only been visiting for the past 8 years or so, and usually for only a couple days at a time. Most of that time has been spent in Midtown, with a little Lower Manhattan and a little Brooklyn. There's just so much to see.
Very cool video. Grand Central Madison looks fantastic. I've never had cause to go to Long Island, but maybe one day...
I love just walking down Manhattan from top to bottom. Central park, upper west and east sides, they’re all amazing.
Very impressive! Love the marble, concrete and glass, so well done, great lines.
Cool upload thanks
Now Metro North riders have an easier access to JFK. This eliminates stair climbing with luggage that you would have on the subway.
That’s true! Forgot to mention that
this station is testament to the fact that Americans CAN have nice train infrastructure. Really pretty station and I'm happy that it will be serving New Yorkers for generations to come.
Probably best to walk from GC to Penn if you need to do it.If I remember correctly it's about a 30 minute walk if you aren't in a rush but you could probably do it in about 15 to 20 minutes if you rushed and knew the quickest ways.
This is another train system I want to check out when I go back to NYC sometime. I saw another video on it and it looks really cool!
Brilliant video!
Thank you!
Good balance of facts & footage. I was there in June, my daughter and I boarded at Mets-Willets Point and had lunch at the hot dog place in the food court. Really well labeled transit info in Manhattan these days.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
GS Madison has other entry and exit points to the streets (Park & Madison as far North as 48th Street). Riders don't need to return to GST. Depending on where you need to go, you can save quite a bit of time using these other exit and entry points.
Of course, but as a transit tourist, I came to see the old terminal
Another great video, Thom!
Thank you!
Nicely done. As a native New Yorker in his 70’s I appreciate your earnest enthusiasm for a job well- done.
Integrating multiple pre-existing train lines was a Herculean task.
Kudos to the talented, skilled and dedicated people who did the work.
New York has a truly remarkable transit system that in numerous ways is better than ever.
I always enjoy coming to the big Apple and marveling at all the trains
@@Thom-TRA
I retired from the TA after @ 30 years, mostly underground.
I worked as a Tower Operator, train operator, train dispatcher.
I continue to use the system, including buses, on a daily basis and marvel at its overall reliability and flexibility.
It rarely elicits the praise it deserves . It is quintessential New York!
I visited Grand Central Madison a week after it opened in January. It was pretty massive station. Even then, it was much quieter than you would visited. The LIRR was just running shuttles between Jamaica and Grand Central at the time. Now that the LIRR splits between Penn station Grand Central, it gives riders a choice to go either the East Side or West side. Now to wait for the Metro North to go splities to Penn Station
REally long subway trains, but so slow pulling out of the stations! Great video.
Awww, I was hoping you'd take an LIRR train all the way out to Montauk, my old stomping grounds. If you went any farther to the northeast....you'd get VERY wet. :)
2:39
To add a bit more context, the 63rd Street Tunnel was designed as a double decker tunnel, with the upper level to for the NYC Subway (Which is currently used by the F line), and lower level for LIRR, for when they eventually got around to building east side access (Goes to show how far back they were planning to connect LIRR to Grand Central Terminal)
cool, thanks for the additional information@@metropod
Hey Thom, Great video and thanks for showing, I need to make it down to NYC soon.. This is mostly unrelated, but now that you're on the East Coast, may I suggest taking the Adirondack up to Montreal and checking out the Montreal Metro and REM? I took the Adirondack from New York to Montreal many years ago and loved it. It was during the height of fall foliage, so I recommend that time of year because the already fantastic scenery is extra stunning then. I was in Montreal last week (but sadly had to drive, as I live in Boston and there's no rail connection yet) and took the opportunity to ride the REM from Gare Centrale and across the St Lawrence River, I was very impressed.
Canada is not high on my list as of right now, but I do have a trip from NYC to Albany and back planned for October!
@@Thom-TRA Nice! Sit on the left if you're only going as far as Albany, but if you ever go north of there (even if you don't cross the border), sit on the right, as the scenery along Lake Champlain is stunning. And I do recommend adding Montreal to your list, they've embraced urbanism and transit probably better than any North American city. It's truly impressive.
@@Thom-TRAI was going to suggest Metro North to Poughkeepsie from GCT, but Amtrak goes the same route, with the exception of the West side of Manhattan.
I would expect advertising space when approaching and at the platforms for another revenue source and there's plenty of passengers.
Really clear succinct explanation of the railroads and stations. I was always fuzzy on this information as my travels were infrequent to any station other than Penn Station. Now thanks to you I can pretend to know what I'm doing!
I appreciate this comment! So glad I could help
love it
Truthfully I love the connection I use the special ticket cuz, I love my trips to CT from LI😈🤣
Yes, those new tickets are a great addition!
One thing I noted with pleasure was the absence of any graffiti. When I lived in NYC back in the 1980s and 1990s, graffiti was a big problem.
The MTA also features a combo ticket if you want to ride both MNR and LIRR. I believe you can also throw in the Air Train to JFK.
Grand Central Madison definitely looks like the DC Metro!!!
Not only good to have your take on this project, also amusing to observe the forward planning that allows you to mention when the previous clip was published within the video, thank you for all your work \m/
Also, while you are in New York, may I suggest visiting Moynihan Train Hall?
I was there earlier that day
Excellent...Hopefully, you'll do a video at some point, as it is also a recent project in New York transportation
I will say though that I do enjoy your videos, and look forward to seeing what else you have in store
@@Cullenfields I made a Moynihan video two years ago
Wow, very impressive! After decades of neglect it's nice to see the MTA finally rolling out some real improvements the past couple years. Very cool that they transferred some of the architectural nuances from the main GC terminal. Also, I'm assuming that sectional electronic system map is partitioned by fare zones...? Kudos to them for redoing that depressing chaotic mess of the old Shuttle platforms. Those new cars look really nice too.
The whole concept seems a bit tortured though. Clearly the most important station in the system is the Jamaica bottleneck - inbound choices of Brooklyn or Manhattan, and outbound choices of branch line transfers. So one more choice to make inbound. As I remember it from growing up there in the 60's through 80's, it was easy because the Manhattan and Brooklyn trains were adjacent to a common platform making it a 10 second walk. Now you may have to duck down to a transfer tunnel?
And really, for most people the choice between Grand Central vs Penn is not a huge deal, at least not enough IMO to justify all that awesome construction. There's also the Amtrak consideration. Back in the day, we always had to take the LIRR to Penn and then make our way up to Grand Central (for the now defunct Montrealer). Now all Amtrak trains run out of Moynihan at Penn. So the main issue here is really how to connect the Penn and GC terminals. I always thought the best solution would be to make the shuttle a 2-stop line GC-42nd-Penn, but what do I know - I guess it couldn't have dedicated tracks.
Great job showing off the new action and enjoy NYC!
Put the master controller into max brake to stop the Alerter while stopped.
The lower level, food court level, also has tracks. GCT is the only station in the world to have 2, now more than 2 underground levels of tracks. I suppose GCM would be 2 more levels, not including the concourse and mezzanine levels.
Ahh nice video, sadly US train system can't compete with Japanese train system. One day I'll go to the big Apple
Whenit costs $11B to build 2 miles of track, switching, and a new station. You will never be able to compete to build new projects
Japan has faster trains we have everything from rapid transit, commuter train and rail, amtrak and light rail. Nyc isn’t the only city that has trains they are the largest in America. Look at DC transit, Maryland transit, the Bay Area, Boston transit, Chicago transit, Cleveland transit, New Jersey transit, Los Angeles transit Philadelphia transit Japan don’t have many transits and commuter trains throughput their country like America.
@@LANG671 I think you underestimate the size of the Japanese rail system. Tokyo on its own has over 100 different rail, subway, and tram lines (that’s not even counting bus services!). Additionally, various cities around Japan have either subway or tram connections around large portions of the city. Nagoya, Sendai, Fukuoka, Osaka, Hiroshima, Nagasaki…the list goes on. Most of these are also connected via Shinkansen services, making it possible to tour the entire country without using any planes. On the other hand, trying to take a train to Chicago from NYC is a huge hassle, to the point where plane is generally the most convenient option, with DRIVING in second. Both cities have impressive subways, but there’s not a convenient way to get between them on train - there is an Amtrak service, but it isn’t very often, and it takes almost a day. Kagoshima to Tokyo, a comparable distance, is connected by train in as little as 6 and a half hours.
Long story short, the USA is not impressive, and we need to stop pretending it is. Instead, we should focus on building more infrastructure to connect the country.
Of course it can’t and neither can Japanese train systems compete with the US. They are two different countries with different needs. The trains in each country has is accommodating to those needs. Some people like new and modern. Some people like old fashioned nostalgic things here in the US. Some people like history and memories of their childhood. That’s why they even have a museum of old transportation vehicles. It works and is just fine. Besides transportation is constantly upgrading and updating everywhere.
@@HaapsaluYT America still has more to offer than Japan. Remember Japan is an island while America is big massive land with multiple transportation modes. While Japan has 100 America has 3,000+
Question: Will you Cover Metro-North and/or CTrail)? IIRC, The New Haven line is under CTrail as well and they have some other services
Eventually when I have time to get up there
The walking in summer from Penn to the east side, in the summer wearing a tie, when I arrived at the office I'd be dripping wet. I'd be first online to take the train via GC-Madison.
I can imagine
Thank you for this wonderful video ! I’ve not yet used Grand Central Madison, but it does look good ! Looking at the height above the cars in each platform, it would appear the LIRR won’t or can’t use any of the bi-level cars that are used in the rush hours to Penn station. However as you say, it will be an easy change at Jamaica for those who can’t get a direct service out of Madison. The architecture and design is breathtaking ! Many thanks.
You should visit Atlantic ave lirr too
I will one day
I saw a video on the newly renovated Grand central station, the MTA added four new commuter rail tunnels along with some retail outlets very below underneath the station it’s amazing how smart and manpower they constructive work to improve that train station.
Metro North Railroad and NJT should run some trains through Penn Station from Trenton New Jersey to New Haven Connecticut all the infrastructure is already there.
I was there recently. I generally don't like a lot of modern architecture but here and there I find things I like and I really liked GSM. The thing I love most about it is they kept the style of the main station's arches (if only Baltimore penn station also would keep the classic style for their addon). Also I loved your comment about the escalators being nothing compared to DC. I literally told my dad that the escalators there felt a bit like rosslyn without the 9-years-out-of-service elevator in the middle.
P.S. There's always a bird in the main concourse lol
I’m not holding my breath for the escalator at my station to open anytime soon
You should do a video for the M9 if your still in ny
I am back in DC but perhaps next time
Its sad that if as many people went through GCT today did when NYC owned it maybe it wouldn't have died. 700,000+ ppl a day use the station and its not even an intercity station anymore. i cant imagine the number if it was.
What did you think of the long escalator ride down? I don't suffer from vertigo or fear of heights, but that was some ride.
Didn’t really bother me tbh, it’s long but I’ve been on linger
Is there any logic on which train uses which cavern/track/level? When it opened, it looked like only GCM-Jamaica shuttle were running. Are they now providing trains to multiple destinations?
BTW, at 02:38, you show the new branch arriving east of the New York Central tracks. (conceptually simpler design). But in reality, the "Madison" in the station name is because it is under Madison ave which is west of the train tracks.
At opening time, I saw a video of a guy testing time to gran central main hall from either Penn Station (using the shuttle subway) or Grand Central Madison and in the end, the time it took to go up from Grand Central Madison to main hall at Gand Central station was not much shorter than time to go from Penn to GCT. But what this really does is add capacity to the Long Island Railroad by adding manhattan platforms/trains that could not be added at Penn.
Full service is running now.
And no, the tracks run underneath Park Avenue, not Madison. They run under the Metro North tracks.
@@Thom-TRA Thanks. so why do they call it "Madison" ? is that because the long escalators end up starting under Park below and are under Madison at the concourse? Do you know if the tracks/station are below the fabled secret power substation that was deep underground Grand Central to power the trains even in case of war? Or between it and GCT ?
@@jfmezei I believe it’s because the concourse is located under Madison.
It didn't really increase the rush hour capacity of the system. They had to reduce trains to Brooklyn, which was and still should be the best way to the major business districts of downtown Brooklyn and downtown Manhattan (Financial District). They did increase reverse peak capacity by triple tracking a section that formerly was used double-track in the rush hour direction. They also opened up capacity in Penn Station for tunnel maintenance. They can now use only three of the four tunnels under the east river to allow for refurbishing the tunnels for the first time in over 110 years. This work should be done in time for the Metro-North Penn access to open.
The MTA should’ve
A. Have Grand Central be served by a shuttle from Jamaica
B. Add Service to LIRR so there can be 6 trains Per Hour. & Every Line would(Expect for the Port Washington Branch) Serve 3 terminals with 2 Trains on Every line go to the Terminals. But the Port Washington Branch would have 3 trains run to Penn Station & Grand Central.
C. Extend ESA down Either Madison Av Or Lexington Av South of Grand Central to Serve Atlantic Terminal & Have a Branch going to Hoboken So Through Service can operate.
(The MTA & NJT operate the Pascack Valley & Port Jervis Line under an Agreement).
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I don‘t really understand, why they built a new station for the LIRR. Grand Central is already underused as it is. Penn Station has more than three times the number of passengers, but a lot less tracks.
Well Penn in addition to LIRR, also runs NJT and Amtrak. Metro North New Haven Line is the largest SINGLE LINE on the continent.
Who Owns That Beautiful Station?? It Look's Like It Belongs In Europe?
MTA
GCM is absolutely beautiful and probably a game changer for Long Islanders who work on the East Side but I still feel like it was a vanity project for Governor Pataki to suck up to his suburban voters. There are so many other projects the MTA could've done with that money to improve the system ike finish the Second Ave Subway or increase rail service in Brooklyn. But she's a beauty alright.
I went to DC yesterday and part of my day I took the METRO to Dulles. I got a 7000 series and I was disappointed with it. The padding was practically nonexistent nd my back and backside hurt. I also learned that WMATA has practically stopped making maps. I was told by the station manager that if you wanted to get information on the METRO you had go to a big sign and look at the QR code via your phone. I asked him what to do if you don't have a phone? He didn't give me an answer. Since I that I didn't like the new cars, I waited for an old train. I was lucky that the next train was an old one and the first car was a 2000 series with more comfortable seats! As for GCM , I don't like it. It's too long and confusing. But this is one old fuddy duddy, 69 year old's opinion. As for Moynihan, You have to walk halfway across the platform which is a problem if you're schlepping. But despite all of this, I think that Trains are Awesome!
Part of the reason that the Long Island did not go to Grand Central was because until the 1960's the LIRR was owned and operated by the PRR, which was a rival with the NYC!
Thanks for sharing that important istorical reason!
you are welcome@@Thom-TRA
Yeah I can see the Commodore and Mister Cassatt being rather upset at seeing trains from their rivals in their stations!!!@@Thom-TRA
Why madison?
Because it's accessible from Madison Avenue.
I'm curious- why did you move to Washington, D.C. ?
For personal reasons :)
7:57 thom what???😂
“I have to say, I really like it”
@@Thom-TRA yea i know it was just funny lol
Thom I enjoy your videos. As someone who lives in NYC and takes the LIRR on occasion to visit friends on Long Island I think Grand Central Madison is a waste of of money and really does not help the average commuter. First it really does not save that much time. Because it's so far below Grand Central it can take 8-10 minutes to get from the train to the information booth in Grand Central. It's almost the same amount of time it takes from Penn Station to the information booth in Grand Central if you take the subway. My second point is that it screwed the people who still come into Penn. Now if you miss a train you have to wait double the amount of time for your next train because only half of the trains now go into Penn. My third point is that the people that go into and out of Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn really got screwed. Travelling to Brooklyn use to be very easy. It was either a direct ride or an easy cross platform transfer at Jamaica to get to Brooklyn. The Brooklyn service has been reduced to a shuttle service. Now in order to get into Brooklyn you need to get to an escalator go up walk 50 yards and go down another escalator in order to get the shuttle. If someone misses the shuttle they need to wait another 20 minutes for the next train. My last point is Grand Central Madison is not being used as much as the MTA thought it would be. On a personal note I believe it should have never been built. The money spent building it should have been spent building and completing the second ave subway.
Wrong. It takes three to five minutes tops by New Yorker walk standards. If you’re taking the ACE from Penn, you’d have to walk that long passageway to get to the shuttle to GCT. And not to mention if you take the 123 from Penn, you’ll still have to wait for a train. You’re acting like trains show up automatically. So no, the subway takes longer.
Y’all are so spoiled that you take your railroad infrastructure for granted. Learn to appreciate what you have
@@legowagfles7287I still do not like it. Commuters to Penn are screwed. There service has been cut in half and the people commuting in and out of Brooklyn are really screwed.
@@legowagfles7287 I do appreciate the infrastructure NYC has but it could be a lot better.
You make a good point. However, most people don't access GCM through the main terminal. Many access it from 47th and 48th and Madison.
first!