Bike companies do not listen to online complaints. They listen to the sound of their gouge priced bikes not sliding off the inventory racks into delivery trucks.
Exactly, everyone complains that these companies are greedy, yet in the end its the consumers that are the cause. Santa Cruz and Yeti started this trend. Over hyped and priced, boutique boushy trinkets. (I rode both brands at demo days, nothing special about these bikes.) Yet idiots with poor money management skills bought them up like hot cakes. I knew shortly after brands like trek and specialized where to follow with these outrageous pricing, and sooner then later the value brands like Gaint would follow suit. Now that money is scarce due to the worldwide ressession, bike companies have to slash prices and build value bikes again if they want to keep their company going. Hopefully we get back to the days when 4 to 5 grand US buys a top of the line bike not this over 10 grand crap.
Last year I bought a $5000+ Megatower and it's absolutely awesome👍🏿👍🏿 I also been riding MTB for almost 30yrs but if I was a two or three year novice and looking for a brand new bike this new YT Capra would be the type of bike that I would want to ride just because of the price and the specs build into it.
I bought my XXL YT Capra Base 27.5 new in 2020 for $2299. These bike companies raised prices like crazy and now that the surge in demand has cooled, they are freaking out and trying to lower prices again. Even $2700 is crazy for that bike. Love these videos on bike industry happenings!
The problem is the 'high-end' bikes are not dropping in price. These 'value' or 'underdog' as canyon call them is just to make the consumer feel like they will be getting basic crap bike if they choose the cheapest option and are more likely to buy the next model up. (Most people buy mid-range products) That's not to knock anyone with the cheapest model, Infact it's a complaint that we now have like 5 different variations on the SAME F*KIN FRAME !! Even for the 'basic' model that's TOO much money. Since when is 2-3K CHEAP ?!! When you have things like e-scooters/bikes and actual motorbikes for the same or less money. Then there's no reason why mtb's should cost this much. Yes bike's can look 'pretty' or whatever, but all of that is subjective. What we have is a bunch of pretentious engineer's (Oh wow i designed a new BB 'standard'.. lets charge them +100% more than it's material cost) that need knocking down a peg or 2. Infact with bicycles, pretty much every new rendition has some new 'feature' that f*kin wears out or is bad by design because of OVERENGINEERING. Bike industry needs to crash and stop taking the piss out of consumers.
Nothing is going to change when you are still getting mugs with more money than sense, forking out 8500+ on a bike you have to pedal. Talk with your wallets and they might get the message.
Pronounced Sun-Ring-LAY, not RinGEL. My fellow 90s peeps will remember drooling over all the Ringlé high end anodized components. All I could afford at the time was their bottle cage. Purchased (or merged) by Sun rims, and now Hayes.
I don't know if it was because of Covid and the sudden surge of people wanting bikes to get outside that convinced companies to hike the prices up or it's just the way things were heading, but all I know is I had my eye on Canyon bike at the beginning of 2020 just within my budget, but I put off buying it because of Covid but went back for it in early 2022, literally the same bike with the same specs/reach/head angle etc was nearly a £1000 more, the hobby I've loved since I had my Cherry Red GT Avalanche 30 years ago is getting a bit out of control when it comes to bike prices, hopefully other companies follow YT and release excellent quality bikes in that £2000-£2500 sweet spot for riders old and new who want quality but don't want to pay over the odds ....I never did get the Canyon, I upped the budget and ended up buying a Honda CRF and touring the Highlands of Scotland, my 2015 Spectral will do....for now 😀😀
@@Dave435l Best thing I did was buy the Honda, it's the CRF300 Rally, it's not a big beast but it's light and easy to control. I only passed my bike test 4 years ago, I think it was a bit of a mid life crisis thing, so didn't want anything too big 😀 I had the shop upgrade the rear shock for something a bit more robust, I then stuck a load of paniers on it, packed a solo tent and camping equipment and in April I did the 7 hour journey from my house to Scotland. I was only aiming for about a week up there but ended up doing nearly 2, I just went and visited all the sights, I camped in the wild as well as a few Airbnb's and managed to get on a 2 day "Learn to off road on your motorcycle" course which I saw advertised in a small shop. I might have got the bug for it as I'm thinking of doing Scandinavia solo in the Summer, Up the coast of Norway to the Artic Circle, then into Finland before coming down the coast of Sweden, I had a friend do the trip about 10 years ago, so the advice is there...AS for my MTB the Canyon Spectral I have is the 2015 model and it hasn't put a foot wrong, every now and again I'll upgrade something but it still goes through everything I've thrown at it over the years, so it'll totally do for another season, but I'll definitely pull the trigger on a new bike, maybe at the end of the year or early 2024.
@Brown_Tiger_Mtb'er I'm on the wrong side of 50 now, raced BMX back in the 80s then moved onto MTBs in the early 90s purely as a hobby, my GT Avalanche cost me £499 back then 😀 Had various bikes over the years, mainly SCOTTs but grabbed a Canyon Spectral back in 2015, it's a hell of a bike and never put a wheel wrong, I was going to upgrade it to a similar model but saw that the price had more than doubled over the years, and gone up by nearly a £1000 in 2 yrs, so decided it only gets used on weekends so it can last another year and decided to blow the cash on the Honda instead, best decision I've made in a long time, gave me a freedom you just can't get in a car...easier on the knees as well 😋
@Brown_Tiger_Mtb'er you "can" ride an ebike to work Motorbikes are a totally separate thing, might aswell start talking about quads and cars at that point
The Sun Ringle Duroc wheels are actually really good. They come stock on the Trek Stache, which is a sick bike (the 50mm version) and they're durable and not ridiculously heavy or expensive.
MK2 Capra base was the same price but with an SX derailleur , Zeb R , DT swiss wheels and code R breaks. Its great they kept the price the same as the out going model. Y ou don't see many bike manufactures doing that !
I bought the Core 2 last August and have loved it. It was the only bike within those specs that I could buy new and have shipped immediately. Comparable Canyon and Commencal bikes wouldn't ship for at least a month. Overall super happy with my purchase. Wish I had the GX drive since mine came with the NX, but other than that, it's a solid bike that I can upgrade over time. Only issue I had with it was my rear Crankbros ring cracked around the spokes, but Crankbros replaced it fully with no questions asked.
it's not, yt has been selling bikes in the mid $2k range for years, and same with their competitors commencal and canyon, if anything they've got more expensive than a couple years ago
company's don't listen to the consumer or online complaints etc. What makes them change is the fact their inventory isn't shifting at the moment as it used to. One of the big bike chains here is Australia- 99 Bikes (They stock and distribute Cube, Norco, Merida mainly), have postponed 12-18months worth of bike orders from their manufacturers because they currently have so much stock trying to be cleared and so much of it is on sale to try and do so
Finally bike companies are going down with the prices. I love this sport, but i think with this insane high prices they are going in to the wrong direction. Good video🤟🏻
@@DailyMTBRider ye, least for me I feel like it’d save me spending more on a nicer shock, although I’m curious about that fork. Regardless wouldn’t buy new theres a current gen chilcotin in my area for $2200 with xo1 and rockshox ultimate suspension taunting me rn 😭
I think the price to the customer at a shop for a similarly specced full sus needs to be closer to $2500-2800 shipped before tax to really be a good value, going used just makes way more sense at this price point for 1-3 year old bikes that don’t need upgraded parts for a serious rider.
I bought the capera 2 last year for 3200 usd (before shipping and taxes) and I thought I got it for a steal compared to other bikes. I originally was going to buy a trek slash but side by side I couldn’t justify spending over a thousand dollars more for basically the same stuff. And I’ll tell you I have 0 complaints about my YT. The bike shreds.
That Status 160 is my next bike. Crazy geo, full fox suspension, big brakes and rare. Sure it still has room for upgrades (which is good since I like upgrading) but out of the box, nothing is missing. $3000 seems to be as low as you can go without starting to make major compromises when it comes to big travel bikes.
Dunno if you're interested but check out commencal bikes, you can get some super sick aluminum bikes in the same price range as the status 160......I got a Meta sx (160/170mm mullet bike) for $3200 delivered.
I bought the 2022 model of the Capra core 2. It was listed $3399. Out the door it cost me $3735.17. I ended up not liking it very much and sold it for $3300 about half a year later. I took that money built up a 2019 Transition Patrol with Fox38, I9 wheels, and GX drivetrain. Loving it.
I picked up a Vitus Escarpe this fall and I think it was a good deal. Carbon front triangle, Z2 fork, Shimano M6100, Nukeproof accessories. The Mythique starts at $1699 and tops out at $2599.
Given the availability of better builds for less money due to year-end closeouts... I wouldn't call that a great deal. $3k is a lot of money for 'entry level' and bike manufacturers are going to have a hard time pulling that same trick during market downturn.
@@Lee-ic2yn Sure but it shouldn't be that way. Bicycle prices are dramatically inflated compared to technology in other areas. You've got full suspension mountain bikes costing more than brand new motorcycles and it is NOT because there is 'more advanced tech' in the bikes :) People pay it and so they charge it because they can. Road bikes have been even worse offenders in this regard because the typical roadie client was often some wealthy banker etc. The value ain't there.
I'm into motorcycles, bicycle prices are absolutely nutz! My buddy and his wife make good $, she just retired and bought herself a $9k road bike, doesn't surprise me in the slightest. She deserves it, they've put in pretty big miles for years.I just look at what I can get for $10k and it brings a smile to my face.
From what I’ve seen of internals, the Rush RC damper is the same motion control damper that was used a few years back (e.g. in the Yari and Revelation, before the Zeb was released and Domain re-released) I had a 2017 Yari on my old bike for many years without any real maintenance. Solid performer for not much money 🤘🏻
I think companies need to understand that with crazy prices, and bikes going for low prices now in the used markets. I’d rather spend $1500 on a used 2020 with decent specs than a new 2022/23 for $2800+ with similar specs not including taxes and shipping yet.
YT is on the top of my list for my upcoming trail bike, but still priced out of my range, have to wait, but by time i can afford one then e versions will be on my radar lol
I got the all 29" model of the Core 1 and i´m super happy with it. I´m a beginner and I defenetely feel the weight going uphill but it is extremely fun and playful downhill. It´s the perfect bike park tool for this price. As a German I payed just 2600 for it (tax included) + 50€ shipping fee and 30€ for the tubeless conversion kit. I just payed 2700€ in total for a pretty good bike. It´s kinda shocking that you have to pay a sales tax on the price I pay for the bike in total in Germany.
making this comment before watching, now the real question is are they gonna be in stock? Pre covid they were always out of stock. So this is a valid question.
I have a YT Base 29'er from 3 years ago. Solid bike and its a fun ride. Upgrades have only been new seat and high rise bars. I am about to upgrade to a shock since the stock one has no climb switch. I am a taller heavier rider so I prefer alloy bikes.
Some very good points made. Meanwhile, GX AXS, DT Swiss, Maxxis, Rockshox, Fsa, Deore 150mm travel. New: 1999.99 delivered. Motobecane. Say what you will but damn it’s a lot of fun to ride.
GasGas (owned by KTM) are doing similar things with motocross bikes. They are basically selling the previous generation model KTM bike, but with cheaper suspension/chassis specs, a different color and flashier marketing.
It'd be nice to get the Core 2 spec with the Core 1 color colorway. I had a set of Sunringle Duroc 40 wheels on my old 18 Roscoe 8, and within a season and a half of aggressive riding the rear needed replaced. Followed by the front 6 months later. They also weren't good running tubeless. They never sealed right with both Michelin Wild Enduros and Specialized Butchers. Granted those were older generation hoops and maybe the hoops on the YT are better these days, but I was not a fan of them. Oh, btw, those were 28 spoke, so if the ones on the YT are 32 then they'll probably last longer. The other reason I would say save up and get the Core 2 is due to the fact I'm running the Fox 38 PE and Float X on a 22 SJ Evo Alloy mullet build and they are fantastic in my opion. There is something to be said about Fox plushness as I've been riding while still on the mend from a broken wrist back in january. Thanks as always for the informative videos sir.
I had a bike with Sun Ringle Duroc wheels and the rear wheel only lasted 15 months. Also, the rear wheel was always very flexy. I weigh 160 pounds and I am not an aggressive rider. Most of my rides are on blue trails. I've been mountain biking for 35 years and this was the only time I ever blew out a rear wheel.
I want to get a newer Santa Cruz Bronson mullet. I can get new one for $3500 plus tax( last years) R build which is about the specs of the Capra. Used maybe $3000 now these are carbon. But I think I’m gonna do the Capra 1 for $2300 out the door, I don’t mind the aluminum and it’s new with no issues as a low price and I can do upgrades to bring the weight down. I was set on a Santa Cruz Bronson but I think the Capra geo is pretty much the same on the mullet.
The Rush RC damper is like an even more basic version of the old Charger RC damper. It has compression and rebound only. Also my $3500 bike came with NX and it’s the only part I dislike. It’s got a Fox Performance Elite DPX2 out back, Performance 38 up front, Sram Code R’s, and Stans Flow S1 wheels rounding out the build. For the money I’m stoked on it and have been riding it for a little over a year.
Did you spot the SX cassette? Even heavier than the NX! So if you want a proper 12 speed drivetrain, you'll need to upgrade the freehub to XD or Microspline.
The best thing about both models is that there are relatively inexpensive upgrades to be made overtime that will definitely boost performance of the bike. Assuming you can swap the no name damper on the core 1 for a charger. But on the core 2 you can swap the Code R levers for RSC for not much and have a drastically better brake. Personally, I think it’s worth it to spend the extra money for the upgraded suspension and wheels alone, but $2700 is getting you a whole lot on the core 1
that's some good value. yeah for the sun ringle I am riding duroc rims myself not extra light but strong 3 years had them hit them all over rocks no problems. actually ended up getting a set for my Remedy since factory ones are pretty skinny cheers
From what I just read (and there isn’t much) RS has a new lineup of forks using the Rush RC that is basically their answer to the Fox Rhythm line. These are only OEM
As far as I know, the zeb base may be compared to the fox Rythm, those have a grip damper and a rebound adjustment and that’s all. If I’m going to pay 2700 + tax and shipping that will sum up more than 3k to my country, I honestly prefer to spend that amount in a specialized status 160 which I can buy for 3k shipping and tax included
I have a Sram DB8 on one of my bikes, you would have to swap out the Semi metallic pads for the Sintered Pads to get similar to code performance. my only problem with it so far is that it requires a different brake bleed kit. wish the core 1 came in a 27.5 but 27.5 seems to be left in 2022.
This is what YT started with High value affordable bikes. Then they released the only Carbon IZZO and their prices started jumping up for everything and the affordable Jeffsy which i have from '18 and the affordable capra kinda got forgot about. When they respec'd the jeffsy in like '20 the aluminum was left as the old 27.5 model and I dont even think the geometry was updated. Was kinda sad to see it because I liked all YT's value stuff.
Bike prices are inflated, but not as crazy as most people think. 22 years ago I bought a Rocky Mountain RM6 for $3500. I immediately changed the drive train to DS set up and put a monster T on it. Total buildup was $5K. That was 23 years ago. Adjust for 23 years of inflation, poor dollar performance and it’s not too far off from today’s prices. Add last years 8.5% CPI and 100% increases on overseas shipping and there you have it. Yes there was a mark up mid fiscal year and yes it was price gouging and yes my bike in 2000 was made in Canada. So there are things we are getting the short end on; however, the quality of bikes is crazy right now. It on the consumer to shop and know when to hold ‘em 😂
My bike came with the DB8 brakes and I order Shimano XT replacements right away. However I rode the bike in the meantime and they were surprisingly good. I am not a SRAM either.
I just ordered one of these for my son. $2200 with tax and shipping (4th of July sale) this is as close to my 2019 Polygon N9 that I have seen (current N9 is over $3000, I paid $2200 in 2019) Polygon managed to put Fox suspension and a GX drivetrain on, by this YT looks to be a great value for the price 👍
Shop around for older models, new. I recently bought a 2014 full suspension enduro bike for 1500 bucks new. Sure, it doesn't have 180mm front travel, but for what i am capable of, 140mm is plenty. I would argue that for probably 90% of enduro bikers splashing another 2k won't make a noticeable difference.
While it would be smart for other Co.s to follow YT in this vein, I think the only ones able to drive such price points will be consumer-direct brands - lower overhead costs, nimbler economy of scale
I'm on a bike since I was 3. The bike industry is at a point it's never been in it's history, and I'm sad to say it, but it's driven by greed more than ever. No, there is no reason in this world why a mtb tire should cost more than a premium one for my car, when the latter has 10 times more rubber mass (not from a r&d standpoint, not from a manufacturing standpoint), or why a handlebar should cost more than a car rim. 90% of what the bike industry is marketing bs. I've worked for half my life in the car industry (engineering/logistics), so I can spot it from a mile. But as long as people pay 10 times more for a product than it should be worth (with a large enough profit aside for the maker), the current situation has no reason to change. The tobacco industry charges the same price for slims as they do for regulars, and nobody minds. What YT just did (Capra Core 1 is now 2299 euros) is give the industry a big wake up slap. Canyon too.
My point to the controversy would be - the expensive bikes are effecting, in my opinion, level of fun you can have out on the trail, for example I just had 2,800 dollars stolen from my truck and if you buy nice bike it’s getting in your head too, it’s going to ruin your perception of fun because of the price factor of the bike. Also I have some fishing gear that cost a lot and when I get to have a chance to get out and fish I’m grabbing medium to low range equipment because you can drop it anywhere, leave it on the ground, get it muddy, dirty etc, same with bicycles it’s meant for abuse and anything less than that makes it unsatisfactory.
Have watched the last few videos. I have my eye on the canyon spectral mullet. Looks like it's an equivalent build to the core 3 Capra. I presume your general recommendation at the moment is hold fire on buying a new bike at the moment and see what happens in the industry? I do find it interesting as the cost of components being made has still risen. So my 2 pence is I don't see prices dropping to dramatically. More like you said making sacrifices elsewhere to get value bikes?
Nice work bro! Loving that new colour also! I think it’s great to see a lower price to entry for new riders… Although I feel like most riders should start with a hardtail to build and learn the ground level skills so once you get up to a trail or enduro type bike, you should know what you like for a build kit. The other benefit you get with buying a new bike vs used is warranty… Not all manufacturers transfer warranty to the second hand buyers… Thoughts?
Thanks Ben - as far are warrenties, I've personally never had a problem with a bike that needed me to be the original owner. When I buy used, I ask the original owner if they'll vouch for me if anything happens (which I've down twice) and in one case, I didn't need to contact the OG owner. All that to say, I don't think it's as much as a need as bikes have gotten really well built. Just my 2 cents though.
One thing that gets me in our love of MTB and the sport is this weight of the bike nonsense. Unless you race competitively. Weight should not be an issue. Bulk up, and learn how to throw your bike around. The heavier the bike the better for descents and plowing through chunk, the bike is more planted. I see nothing wrong with bikes in the 35 to 39 lbs range at all. Early mountain bikes that introduced front and rear suspension came in at 40 plus.
I think direct to consumer brands and lower end brands will develop in this space. Higher end brands like Yeti, Santa Cruz, etc I dont see playing in this field.....
Hi if your still interested in the Rush Damper there are Schematics of the damper in the Sram Service Manual... Maybe that helps... I included the link down below... The ZEB Base is on Page 17... ;-) Ps.: It does look some what of Grip Damper meets Motion Control to me ;-)
The bicycle industry is destroying itself from the inside out. They should lower their profits expectations and bring more people into bicycling. When a bicycle costs almost as much as a motorcycle guess which one the consumer will choose. I bought a $700. Fuji Nevada 1.9 to light urban free ride to work and I'm having a blast. I won't even think about a long travel dual suspension mountain bike until or if these prices go way down from where they are now. Let's get more people on bikes and you will make your profits!
Bought a brand new 2021 Capra base for $2400, slapped a GX mech on it and chucked the stock SX off a cliff. The thing rips and I get compliments from kashima clad $10k bike owners.
People want high end performance at Walmart prices. The industry has an impossible crowd to please. Yes I believe the price of bikes are bloated. I’m also hoping that since we have found a sweet spot in geo that companies we slow down on frame design changes allowing prices to drop some while still using performance parts
Idk if it's comparable since they're not identical wheels, but my sun ringle Duroc 30 were made out of cheese. Like, don't put those on bikes meant for serious riding.
I look at this problem from a manufacturers perspective. A Car has many more parts that are molded, cast, machined, glued, polished, and many more procedures. A bike of any kind has a fraction of that. Example; I can buy a basic car for say 20,000$ new. It easily has more than 20 times the parts. So, a new bike should be no more than 1,000$.
For 2900-3200 you can get a 2-3 year old bike that was 5-7K with basically zero needs for upgrades other than suspension servicing chain, brake pads and maybe a casette and cables if the bike isn’t well taken care of. Doing this will allow you to build an awesome bike the following year, just buy a new frame swap the parts and sell the old frame for cheap or keep it and build it up slowly with used parts, make it mullet, experiment with components, or make it more bike park oriented single speed or something or just build it up yo have a spare bike for winter riding or for when the other bike is being serviced 🤷🏽♂️
Servicing suspension cost hundreds per front and rear, and a good cassette is 3-400$. Plus most need a tune up. So add 1000$ to that. Doesn't sound like so much a value
@@matthewserna7475 Lol... Why not 1000 quid cassette. Of course servicing can cost hundreds but also can cost 300... 150 cassette and if you cant change cables and tune bike for yourself its time to learn that as its not a rocket science lol. Otherwise you buy new bike and year later you gonna pay as you said 1000 on the top of that. THIS doesnt sound like so much value isnt xD?
Obviously buy used if you can. But I'd go an extra $400 for wheels. My Kona came with 27.5 WTB wheels and they were really really bad. They kept breaking. So on the used marker your probably gonna pick up some dt swiss ones for $300. Which means $100 for fox suspension (I prefer rockshocks, but I bet the fox is lighter)! I'd say the $3000 one is the way to go.
I hope u we're meaning to say 2021 ,not 2001 😲🤔geo would be a bit dated on a frame of that age ,loving the latest news content, always a pleasure, thanks 😉 😆 👍👌
Bike companies do not listen to online complaints. They listen to the sound of their gouge priced bikes not sliding off the inventory racks into delivery trucks.
Unfortunetly there's a lot of truth there! Reguardless of the why, I hope they start making more positive changes!
Supply and Demand baby. It's the same for literally everything.
Exactly, everyone complains that these companies are greedy, yet in the end its the consumers that are the cause. Santa Cruz and Yeti started this trend. Over hyped and priced, boutique boushy trinkets. (I rode both brands at demo days, nothing special about these bikes.) Yet idiots with poor money management skills bought them up like hot cakes.
I knew shortly after brands like trek and specialized where to follow with these outrageous pricing, and sooner then later the value brands like Gaint would follow suit.
Now that money is scarce due to the worldwide ressession, bike companies have to slash prices and build value bikes again if they want to keep their company going.
Hopefully we get back to the days when 4 to 5 grand US buys a top of the line bike not this over 10 grand crap.
Last year I bought a $5000+ Megatower and it's absolutely awesome👍🏿👍🏿 I also been riding MTB for almost 30yrs but if I was a two or three year novice and looking for a brand new bike this new YT Capra would be the type of bike that I would want to ride just because of the price and the specs build into it.
@@PeterCPRail8748 Just got my first Yeti (SB150) for 25% off. Would never buy it a full price lol
These dives into the mtb market have been really interesting, definitely enjoy watching them!
Thanks so much - I've really enjoyed making videos about it! It's stuff I talk about all the time and I thought, why not make videos about it!
Couldn’t agree more - this is really compelling content. Two of my favourite things, chatting about bikes and economics/markets.
I bought my XXL YT Capra Base 27.5 new in 2020 for $2299. These bike companies raised prices like crazy and now that the surge in demand has cooled, they are freaking out and trying to lower prices again. Even $2700 is crazy for that bike. Love these videos on bike industry happenings!
You can buy a nice used motorcycle for that money.
I bought my capra around 2018/2019. I think that was the sweet spot for value for money.
@@fivespeed3026you can buy a beater car for that money. A motorcycle doesn’t fill the same niche…
@@fivespeed3026 you can buy a used motorcycle for 100 if you want
What's your point?
Couldn't agree more! Also a tall guy...... how tall are you and how is the fit?
The problem is the 'high-end' bikes are not dropping in price. These 'value' or 'underdog' as canyon call them is just to make the consumer feel like they will be getting basic crap bike if they choose the cheapest option and are more likely to buy the next model up. (Most people buy mid-range products)
That's not to knock anyone with the cheapest model, Infact it's a complaint that we now have like 5 different variations on the SAME F*KIN FRAME !!
Even for the 'basic' model that's TOO much money. Since when is 2-3K CHEAP ?!!
When you have things like e-scooters/bikes and actual motorbikes for the same or less money. Then there's no reason why mtb's should cost this much.
Yes bike's can look 'pretty' or whatever, but all of that is subjective. What we have is a bunch of pretentious engineer's (Oh wow i designed a new BB 'standard'.. lets charge them +100% more than it's material cost) that need knocking down a peg or 2. Infact with bicycles, pretty much every new rendition has some new 'feature' that f*kin wears out or is bad by design because of OVERENGINEERING.
Bike industry needs to crash and stop taking the piss out of consumers.
Nothing is going to change when you are still getting mugs with more money than sense, forking out 8500+ on a bike you have to pedal. Talk with your wallets and they might get the message.
Im really enjoying the videos on the industry. Nice work.
I have a YT Tues Base model 2 years old. 27.5 42 pounds with CUSH CORE. I love it!!
Love my YT. ...Their customer service in the USA and at their YT Mill in San Clemente, CA has always been outstanding to me.
Intresting that Loam wolf and you both feature a YT bike in a vid and released on the same day? I think i know why!!!!! LOL
Pronounced Sun-Ring-LAY, not RinGEL. My fellow 90s peeps will remember drooling over all the Ringlé high end anodized components. All I could afford at the time was their bottle cage. Purchased (or merged) by Sun rims, and now Hayes.
I don't know if it was because of Covid and the sudden surge of people wanting bikes to get outside that convinced companies to hike the prices up or it's just the way things were heading, but all I know is I had my eye on Canyon bike at the beginning of 2020 just within my budget, but I put off buying it because of Covid but went back for it in early 2022, literally the same bike with the same specs/reach/head angle etc was nearly a £1000 more, the hobby I've loved since I had my Cherry Red GT Avalanche 30 years ago is getting a bit out of control when it comes to bike prices, hopefully other companies follow YT and release excellent quality bikes in that £2000-£2500 sweet spot for riders old and new who want quality but don't want to pay over the odds ....I never did get the Canyon, I upped the budget and ended up buying a Honda CRF and touring the Highlands of Scotland, my 2015 Spectral will do....for now 😀😀
That's the crazy thing with new bike prices. I'm also cross shopping enduro bikes with dual sport motos for scratching the outdoor adventure itch lol
@@Dave435l Best thing I did was buy the Honda, it's the CRF300 Rally, it's not a big beast but it's light and easy to control. I only passed my bike test 4 years ago, I think it was a bit of a mid life crisis thing, so didn't want anything too big 😀 I had the shop upgrade the rear shock for something a bit more robust, I then stuck a load of paniers on it, packed a solo tent and camping equipment and in April I did the 7 hour journey from my house to Scotland. I was only aiming for about a week up there but ended up doing nearly 2, I just went and visited all the sights, I camped in the wild as well as a few Airbnb's and managed to get on a 2 day "Learn to off road on your motorcycle" course which I saw advertised in a small shop. I might have got the bug for it as I'm thinking of doing Scandinavia solo in the Summer, Up the coast of Norway to the Artic Circle, then into Finland before coming down the coast of Sweden, I had a friend do the trip about 10 years ago, so the advice is there...AS for my MTB the Canyon Spectral I have is the 2015 model and it hasn't put a foot wrong, every now and again I'll upgrade something but it still goes through everything I've thrown at it over the years, so it'll totally do for another season, but I'll definitely pull the trigger on a new bike, maybe at the end of the year or early 2024.
@@David-bw7is Meh it's only a grand, not worth waiting years for just to save a few quid
@Brown_Tiger_Mtb'er I'm on the wrong side of 50 now, raced BMX back in the 80s then moved onto MTBs in the early 90s purely as a hobby, my GT Avalanche cost me £499 back then 😀 Had various bikes over the years, mainly SCOTTs but grabbed a Canyon Spectral back in 2015, it's a hell of a bike and never put a wheel wrong, I was going to upgrade it to a similar model but saw that the price had more than doubled over the years, and gone up by nearly a £1000 in 2 yrs, so decided it only gets used on weekends so it can last another year and decided to blow the cash on the Honda instead, best decision I've made in a long time, gave me a freedom you just can't get in a car...easier on the knees as well 😋
@Brown_Tiger_Mtb'er you "can" ride an ebike to work
Motorbikes are a totally separate thing, might aswell start talking about quads and cars at that point
The Sun Ringle Duroc wheels are actually really good. They come stock on the Trek Stache, which is a sick bike (the 50mm version) and they're durable and not ridiculously heavy or expensive.
MK2 Capra base was the same price but with an SX derailleur , Zeb R , DT swiss wheels and code R breaks. Its great they kept the price the same as the out going model. Y
ou don't see many bike manufactures doing that !
I bought the Core 2 last August and have loved it. It was the only bike within those specs that I could buy new and have shipped immediately. Comparable Canyon and Commencal bikes wouldn't ship for at least a month. Overall super happy with my purchase. Wish I had the GX drive since mine came with the NX, but other than that, it's a solid bike that I can upgrade over time. Only issue I had with it was my rear Crankbros ring cracked around the spokes, but Crankbros replaced it fully with no questions asked.
I feel like this deal still isn't that crazy
it's not, yt has been selling bikes in the mid $2k range for years, and same with their competitors commencal and canyon, if anything they've got more expensive than a couple years ago
It’s 2200 now
1999€ in Europe, they have a sale currently. If 3k was a bit much 2k seems like a steal.
company's don't listen to the consumer or online complaints etc. What makes them change is the fact their inventory isn't shifting at the moment as it used to. One of the big bike chains here is Australia- 99 Bikes (They stock and distribute Cube, Norco, Merida mainly), have postponed 12-18months worth of bike orders from their manufacturers because they currently have so much stock trying to be cleared and so much of it is on sale to try and do so
Finally bike companies are going down with the prices. I love this sport, but i think with this insane high prices they are going in to the wrong direction.
Good video🤟🏻
Core 2 for $400 is worth the upgrade ngl
I think you're right man - but for some people the price savings is worth it.
@@DailyMTBRider ye, least for me I feel like it’d save me spending more on a nicer shock, although I’m curious about that fork. Regardless wouldn’t buy new theres a current gen chilcotin in my area for $2200 with xo1 and rockshox ultimate suspension taunting me rn 😭
Which core 2? I see an NX and GX onntheir website.
I think the price to the customer at a shop for a similarly specced full sus needs to be closer to $2500-2800 shipped before tax to really be a good value, going used just makes way more sense at this price point for 1-3 year old bikes that don’t need upgraded parts for a serious rider.
I bought the capera 2 last year for 3200 usd (before shipping and taxes) and I thought I got it for a steal compared to other bikes. I originally was going to buy a trek slash but side by side I couldn’t justify spending over a thousand dollars more for basically the same stuff. And I’ll tell you I have 0 complaints about my YT. The bike shreds.
I got my jeffsy last year for my 40th birthday. I love it I just did not like the California tax applied to it. I might sell it for the capra 2.
That Status 160 is my next bike. Crazy geo, full fox suspension, big brakes and rare. Sure it still has room for upgrades (which is good since I like upgrading) but out of the box, nothing is missing. $3000 seems to be as low as you can go without starting to make major compromises when it comes to big travel bikes.
$2250 now according to his new video!
Dunno if you're interested but check out commencal bikes, you can get some super sick aluminum bikes in the same price range as the status 160......I got a Meta sx (160/170mm mullet bike) for $3200 delivered.
@@doug148877 already pulled the trigger on the status. Wanted something different as I see lots of commencal
Canyon Spectral AL 5
FOX 36 Rhythm Grip
FOX FLOAT X Performance
Deore 1x12
SRAM DB8
Weight: 16.20 kg
2.499 €
I bought the 2022 model of the Capra core 2. It was listed $3399. Out the door it cost me $3735.17. I ended up not liking it very much and sold it for $3300 about half a year later. I took that money built up a 2019 Transition Patrol with Fox38, I9 wheels, and GX drivetrain. Loving it.
I picked up a Vitus Escarpe this fall and I think it was a good deal. Carbon front triangle, Z2 fork, Shimano M6100, Nukeproof accessories. The Mythique starts at $1699 and tops out at $2599.
I’m looking at that same bike right now and am undecided for months on what to buy how does it perform
Given the availability of better builds for less money due to year-end closeouts... I wouldn't call that a great deal. $3k is a lot of money for 'entry level' and bike manufacturers are going to have a hard time pulling that same trick during market downturn.
Seriously have you not noticed the price of everything has increased?
3k is not a lot in the world of mtb
@@Lee-ic2yn Sure but it shouldn't be that way. Bicycle prices are dramatically inflated compared to technology in other areas. You've got full suspension mountain bikes costing more than brand new motorcycles and it is NOT because there is 'more advanced tech' in the bikes :) People pay it and so they charge it because they can. Road bikes have been even worse offenders in this regard because the typical roadie client was often some wealthy banker etc. The value ain't there.
I'm into motorcycles, bicycle prices are absolutely nutz! My buddy and his wife make good $, she just retired and bought herself a $9k road bike, doesn't surprise me in the slightest. She deserves it, they've put in pretty big miles for years.I just look at what I can get for $10k and it brings a smile to my face.
I'll check next year if bikes are back to reasonable prices. If it's not, then i'd keep riding my bike until it becomes unrepairable.
From what I’ve seen of internals, the Rush RC damper is the same motion control damper that was used a few years back (e.g. in the Yari and Revelation, before the Zeb was released and Domain re-released)
I had a 2017 Yari on my old bike for many years without any real maintenance. Solid performer for not much money 🤘🏻
Just got an email from one specific bike shop in Cali that has Specialized Status 140s and 160s for $2250 😳
I'm telling you - bike prices re dropping like crazy and will continue to!
I think companies need to understand that with crazy prices, and bikes going for low prices now in the used markets. I’d rather spend $1500 on a used 2020 with decent specs than a new 2022/23 for $2800+ with similar specs not including taxes and shipping yet.
💯Hoping other bike brands will bring down their pricing 💯
That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing this with us.
YT is on the top of my list for my upcoming trail bike, but still priced out of my range, have to wait, but by time i can afford one then e versions will be on my radar lol
I got the all 29" model of the Core 1 and i´m super happy with it. I´m a beginner and I defenetely feel the weight going uphill but it is extremely fun and playful downhill. It´s the perfect bike park tool for this price. As a German I payed just 2600 for it (tax included) + 50€ shipping fee and 30€ for the tubeless conversion kit. I just payed 2700€ in total for a pretty good bike. It´s kinda shocking that you have to pay a sales tax on the price I pay for the bike in total in Germany.
This is so cool. I’m super interested in those brakes and fork
making this comment before watching, now the real question is are they gonna be in stock? Pre covid they were always out of stock. So this is a valid question.
Thoughts on the Norco Fluid?
I have a YT Base 29'er from 3 years ago. Solid bike and its a fun ride. Upgrades have only been new seat and high rise bars. I am about to upgrade to a shock since the stock one has no climb switch. I am a taller heavier rider so I prefer alloy bikes.
I literally just bought a Jeffsy Uncaged 13 for 2400 shipped. Insane deal.
Some very good points made. Meanwhile, GX AXS, DT Swiss, Maxxis, Rockshox, Fsa, Deore 150mm travel. New: 1999.99 delivered. Motobecane. Say what you will but damn it’s a lot of fun to ride.
Do you have a link to that offer?
Does anyone know when this bike will be available in Canada
GasGas (owned by KTM) are doing similar things with motocross bikes. They are basically selling the previous generation model KTM bike, but with cheaper suspension/chassis specs, a different color and flashier marketing.
It'd be nice to get the Core 2 spec with the Core 1 color colorway. I had a set of Sunringle Duroc 40 wheels on my old 18 Roscoe 8, and within a season and a half of aggressive riding the rear needed replaced. Followed by the front 6 months later. They also weren't good running tubeless. They never sealed right with both Michelin Wild Enduros and Specialized Butchers. Granted those were older generation hoops and maybe the hoops on the YT are better these days, but I was not a fan of them. Oh, btw, those were 28 spoke, so if the ones on the YT are 32 then they'll probably last longer.
The other reason I would say save up and get the Core 2 is due to the fact I'm running the Fox 38 PE and Float X on a 22 SJ Evo Alloy mullet build and they are fantastic in my opion. There is something to be said about Fox plushness as I've been riding while still on the mend from a broken wrist back in january.
Thanks as always for the informative videos sir.
I had a bike with Sun Ringle Duroc wheels and the rear wheel only lasted 15 months. Also, the rear wheel was always very flexy. I weigh 160 pounds and I am not an aggressive rider. Most of my rides are on blue trails. I've been mountain biking for 35 years and this was the only time I ever blew out a rear wheel.
I want to get a newer Santa Cruz Bronson mullet. I can get new one for $3500 plus tax( last years) R build which is about the specs of the Capra. Used maybe $3000 now these are carbon. But I think I’m gonna do the Capra 1 for $2300 out the door, I don’t mind the aluminum and it’s new with no issues as a low price and I can do upgrades to bring the weight down. I was set on a Santa Cruz Bronson but I think the Capra geo is pretty much the same on the mullet.
The Rush RC damper is like an even more basic version of the old Charger RC damper. It has compression and rebound only. Also my $3500 bike came with NX and it’s the only part I dislike. It’s got a Fox Performance Elite DPX2 out back, Performance 38 up front, Sram Code R’s, and Stans Flow S1 wheels rounding out the build. For the money I’m stoked on it and have been riding it for a little over a year.
Specialized status 160 is now on sale for 2200 on the specialized website.
Did you spot the SX cassette? Even heavier than the NX! So if you want a proper 12 speed drivetrain, you'll need to upgrade the freehub to XD or Microspline.
The best thing about both models is that there are relatively inexpensive upgrades to be made overtime that will definitely boost performance of the bike. Assuming you can swap the no name damper on the core 1 for a charger. But on the core 2 you can swap the Code R levers for RSC for not much and have a drastically better brake. Personally, I think it’s worth it to spend the extra money for the upgraded suspension and wheels alone, but $2700 is getting you a whole lot on the core 1
YTs are solid bikes 🔥
that's some good value. yeah for the sun ringle I am riding duroc rims myself not extra light but strong 3 years had them hit them all over rocks no problems. actually ended up getting a set for my Remedy since factory ones are pretty skinny cheers
I bought this bike like 3 Weeks ago and I Love it.
From what I just read (and there isn’t much) RS has a new lineup of forks using the Rush RC that is basically their answer to the Fox Rhythm line. These are only OEM
999 👊. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy the ride
You should check out Fezzari, smaller brand but insane value
As far as I know, the zeb base may be compared to the fox Rythm, those have a grip damper and a rebound adjustment and that’s all.
If I’m going to pay 2700 + tax and shipping that will sum up more than 3k to my country, I honestly prefer to spend that amount in a specialized status 160 which I can buy for 3k shipping and tax included
I have a Sram DB8 on one of my bikes, you would have to swap out the Semi metallic pads for the Sintered Pads to get similar to code performance. my only problem with it so far is that it requires a different brake bleed kit. wish the core 1 came in a 27.5 but 27.5 seems to be left in 2022.
This is what YT started with High value affordable bikes. Then they released the only Carbon IZZO and their prices started jumping up for everything and the affordable Jeffsy which i have from '18 and the affordable capra kinda got forgot about. When they respec'd the jeffsy in like '20 the aluminum was left as the old 27.5 model and I dont even think the geometry was updated. Was kinda sad to see it because I liked all YT's value stuff.
Bike prices are inflated, but not as crazy as most people think. 22 years ago I bought a Rocky Mountain RM6 for $3500. I immediately changed the drive train to DS set up and put a monster T on it. Total buildup was $5K. That was 23 years ago. Adjust for 23 years of inflation, poor dollar performance and it’s not too far off from today’s prices. Add last years 8.5% CPI and 100% increases on overseas shipping and there you have it. Yes there was a mark up mid fiscal year and yes it was price gouging and yes my bike in 2000 was made in Canada. So there are things we are getting the short end on; however, the quality of bikes is crazy right now. It on the consumer to shop and know when to hold ‘em 😂
My bike came with the DB8 brakes and I order Shimano XT replacements right away. However I rode the bike in the meantime and they were surprisingly good. I am not a SRAM either.
I just ordered one of these for my son. $2200 with tax and shipping (4th of July sale) this is as close to my 2019 Polygon N9 that I have seen (current N9 is over $3000, I paid $2200 in 2019) Polygon managed to put Fox suspension and a GX drivetrain on, by this YT looks to be a great value for the price 👍
Shop around for older models, new. I recently bought a 2014 full suspension enduro bike for 1500 bucks new. Sure, it doesn't have 180mm front travel, but for what i am capable of, 140mm is plenty. I would argue that for probably 90% of enduro bikers splashing another 2k won't make a noticeable difference.
While it would be smart for other Co.s to follow YT in this vein, I think the only ones able to drive such price points will be consumer-direct brands - lower overhead costs, nimbler economy of scale
I'm on a bike since I was 3. The bike industry is at a point it's never been in it's history, and I'm sad to say it, but it's driven by greed more than ever. No, there is no reason in this world why a mtb tire should cost more than a premium one for my car, when the latter has 10 times more rubber mass (not from a r&d standpoint, not from a manufacturing standpoint), or why a handlebar should cost more than a car rim. 90% of what the bike industry is marketing bs. I've worked for half my life in the car industry (engineering/logistics), so I can spot it from a mile. But as long as people pay 10 times more for a product than it should be worth (with a large enough profit aside for the maker), the current situation has no reason to change. The tobacco industry charges the same price for slims as they do for regulars, and nobody minds. What YT just did (Capra Core 1 is now 2299 euros) is give the industry a big wake up slap. Canyon too.
My point to the controversy would be - the expensive bikes are effecting, in my opinion, level of fun you can have out on the trail, for example I just had 2,800 dollars stolen from my truck and if you buy nice bike it’s getting in your head too, it’s going to ruin your perception of fun because of the price factor of the bike. Also I have some fishing gear that cost a lot and when I get to have a chance to get out and fish I’m grabbing medium to low range equipment because you can drop it anywhere, leave it on the ground, get it muddy, dirty etc, same with bicycles it’s meant for abuse and anything less than that makes it unsatisfactory.
Have watched the last few videos. I have my eye on the canyon spectral mullet. Looks like it's an equivalent build to the core 3 Capra. I presume your general recommendation at the moment is hold fire on buying a new bike at the moment and see what happens in the industry? I do find it interesting as the cost of components being made has still risen. So my 2 pence is I don't see prices dropping to dramatically. More like you said making sacrifices elsewhere to get value bikes?
Nice work bro! Loving that new colour also! I think it’s great to see a lower price to entry for new riders… Although I feel like most riders should start with a hardtail to build and learn the ground level skills so once you get up to a trail or enduro type bike, you should know what you like for a build kit. The other benefit you get with buying a new bike vs used is warranty… Not all manufacturers transfer warranty to the second hand buyers… Thoughts?
Thanks Ben - as far are warrenties, I've personally never had a problem with a bike that needed me to be the original owner. When I buy used, I ask the original owner if they'll vouch for me if anything happens (which I've down twice) and in one case, I didn't need to contact the OG owner. All that to say, I don't think it's as much as a need as bikes have gotten really well built. Just my 2 cents though.
I disagree, hard tails are much harder to sell so just go with the best full suspension you can afford and learn how to handle it.
@@DailyMTBRider good to hear! Thanks!
What do you think about 2024 YT Industries Jeffsy CORE 4 29?
One thing that gets me in our love of MTB and the sport is this weight of the bike nonsense. Unless you race competitively. Weight should not be an issue. Bulk up, and learn how to throw your bike around. The heavier the bike the better for descents and plowing through chunk, the bike is more planted. I see nothing wrong with bikes in the 35 to 39 lbs range at all.
Early mountain bikes that introduced front and rear suspension came in at 40 plus.
Heck yeah..I ride my bike to the Amazon locker to pick up stuff!
I just cant justify spending 6,8,9 grand on a bike. YT has blown others out of the water with this offering. Fantastic news in the industry.
The Sunringle wheels are good, i have them on my DH bike this year and never had problems.
I am assuming you meant since 2021 and not 2001.
Haha yes - that is very much what I meant!
I think direct to consumer brands and lower end brands will develop in this space. Higher end brands like Yeti, Santa Cruz, etc I dont see playing in this field.....
Hi if your still interested in the Rush Damper there are Schematics of the damper in the Sram Service Manual... Maybe that helps... I included the link down below... The ZEB Base is on Page 17... ;-)
Ps.: It does look some what of Grip Damper meets Motion Control to me ;-)
The bicycle industry is destroying itself from the inside out. They should lower their profits expectations and bring more people into bicycling. When a bicycle costs almost as much as a motorcycle guess which one the consumer will choose. I bought a $700. Fuji Nevada 1.9 to light urban free ride to work and I'm having a blast. I won't even think about a long travel dual suspension mountain bike until or if these prices go way down from where they are now. Let's get more people on bikes and you will make your profits!
If its alloy are they seeing sense and using a threaded bb? They did that with the mullet ohlins model
Update fork with buttercup for 100.00, Super Deluxe upgrades are also affordable
Bought a brand new 2021 Capra base for $2400, slapped a GX mech on it and chucked the stock SX off a cliff. The thing rips and I get compliments from kashima clad $10k bike owners.
Core 2 NX is on sale for $2329. It's cheaper than the core 1 right now. Insane price.
Why not mention the Canyon Spectral AL 5, which is similarly spec'ed and in the same price range?
My Grandson is 6 foot 3 inches, which bike will be best for his height
People want high end performance at Walmart prices. The industry has an impossible crowd to please. Yes I believe the price of bikes are bloated. I’m also hoping that since we have found a sweet spot in geo that companies we slow down on frame design changes allowing prices to drop some while still using performance parts
Not really. Minmum 3k for a bike with peddles is expensive regardless of how you look at things.
Sorry, there is a huuuuuge difference between $3k and $300. And I'm saying $300 as a higher price point for walmart bikes.
Vitus escarpe is £800 cheaper for same spec. Nx rear mech is actually lighter than the higher spec models.
Idk if it's comparable since they're not identical wheels, but my sun ringle Duroc 30 were made out of cheese. Like, don't put those on bikes meant for serious riding.
I love my Capra Core 3, its an awesome bike 👌
I look at this problem from a manufacturers perspective. A Car has many more parts that are molded, cast, machined, glued, polished, and many more procedures. A bike of any kind has a fraction of that. Example; I can buy a basic car for say 20,000$ new. It easily has more than 20 times the parts. So, a new bike should be no more than 1,000$.
It's crazy how prices have fallen. The hardtail I've been eyeing is Kona Honzo ESD at $3000+. I'm betting the price will drop soon.
For 2900-3200 you can get a 2-3 year old bike that was 5-7K with basically zero needs for upgrades other than suspension servicing chain, brake pads and maybe a casette and cables if the bike isn’t well taken care of.
Doing this will allow you to build an awesome bike the following year, just buy a new frame swap the parts and sell the old frame for cheap or keep it and build it up slowly with used parts, make it mullet, experiment with components, or make it more bike park oriented single speed or something or just build it up yo have a spare bike for winter riding or for when the other bike is being serviced 🤷🏽♂️
Servicing suspension cost hundreds per front and rear, and a good cassette is 3-400$. Plus most need a tune up. So add 1000$ to that. Doesn't sound like so much a value
@@matthewserna7475 Lol... Why not 1000 quid cassette. Of course servicing can cost hundreds but also can cost 300... 150 cassette and if you cant change cables and tune bike for yourself its time to learn that as its not a rocket science lol. Otherwise you buy new bike and year later you gonna pay as you said 1000 on the top of that. THIS doesnt sound like so much value isnt xD?
Obviously buy used if you can. But I'd go an extra $400 for wheels. My Kona came with 27.5 WTB wheels and they were really really bad. They kept breaking.
So on the used marker your probably gonna pick up some dt swiss ones for $300.
Which means $100 for fox suspension (I prefer rockshocks, but I bet the fox is lighter)! I'd say the $3000 one is the way to go.
Only problem with used is you have no idea whats happened to them before hand
Used is the best way to go. Especially at Galbraith
Status is on sale for 2200 rn on specialized
The best one was the YT Capra uncaged 9. Sold Out so quick. U basically get the frame for free.
My thoughts exactly, why I snatched one up as soon as I could.
It's still not sold out in the EU though.
@@Echoes- doch bei mir schon. Wenn ich auf des Bike gehe steht da existiert nicht. Lg
@@lakaldrak They are sitting in the "Outlet" after the black week, they have been there for 2 months, but now "only" discounted -2000 euro.
@@Echoes- uncaged 6 yes , uncaged 9 No 😉👍. I talked about the 9 With the ölins suspension.
I am still happy with my Intense 951. This bike is never really mentioned.
is the mezzer for sale?
I hope u we're meaning to say 2021 ,not 2001 😲🤔geo would be a bit dated on a frame of that age ,loving the latest news content, always a pleasure, thanks
😉 😆 👍👌
This is a very great deal I was ready to buy but it doesn’t ship until late march
Nice spec for the price I’d buy one
Saracen Ariel 60/80 are both very good value
I'd get that bike just for the color!
There is NO cutting back on their end. I bought a full carbon Canyon Strive CF5 with all Fox for 2400 in 2020…