I have and still do. Ever since not being happy with the LBS after waiting, paying and not completely happy with the results. And most wheels I bought aren´t completely true and stressed out of the box so I just spent some serious Euros on the tools and now I know I´m riding solid wheels. Thank you GCN I learned from watching ParkTools videos but its never enough reminding and talk about it again! Cheers GCN and the legendary, Sir Calvin!
If I’m going to put the time and effort into learning a skill, it’s either got to be one that’s highly interesting, one that saves a substantial amount of money, one that I can profit from, or one I can eventually perform to a higher quality standard. I’m just not feeling it with the whole wheel building thing. I could probably never build a better or cheaper wheel.
Built my own wheels for decades, but quit when the advent of computerized wheel building boosted the quality and reduced the price of factory wheels to less than the cost of the components. Better wheels, lower cost, no brainer. Now, with so many exotic materials and designs, I leave it to the experts (factory, not LBS).
Me faltan: - Conocer la medida de los rayos a cabalidad. Tanto el grosor, como propiedades para cada disciplina. - Un centrador. Ya que uso frenos de herradura. - Conocer como "tejer" los rayos o hacer en rayado de 0x, 1x, 2x o 3x. Edit: Saber eliminar en lo posible el salto vertical, y aparaguar la rueda.
There's three ways the rim can go and it just needs balancing out: 1. Tighten spokes on both sides in one area if the diameter has a bulge. 2. Tighten one side to make the rim go that way (or loosen the other side). 3. Tighten all spokes on one side to get the rim central (dish).
Or truing a wheelset after a crash the correct way, so that you’ve still got even spoketension after the repair… I’ve tried that on a couple of occations🙄
We want more of Calvin! I've never really been interested in building wheels (time and patience being the two things I lack) but he has a way of captivating the audience
Built my first set of wheels back around 1976! It's a bit intimidating at the start, but you get over that quickly. Like most bike maintenance, it's a useful skill and gives you the ability to handle whatever happens. You can't do much better than learning from Calvin!
The new megabase seems to be in the back of a trailer or industrial estate or something! Would be pretty punk if they covered the walls with carpet or moving blankets, like a basement recording studio
Having built several sets of wheels for myself I've made a few mistakes along the way (to short of a spoke on the non-driveside of the rear wheel trying to save some money, didn't work out, the alloy nipples were breaking) . But I've gotten better with each build. My most recent pair was a 48 spoke 5 cross on Philwood hubs for my 44 year old Santana tandem. I'm rolling along with great confidence on my new wheels, I get great satisfaction building my wheels.
Hand built wheels using Open Pro rims and DT Swiss stainless steel spokes with brass nipples are exactly what I have (though a Shimano hub). My local bike shop build them up. Sturdy as anything and never go out of true.
@@gcntech ya - i'd let the GCN presenters have a go on any of the vintage bikes in my collection, all with different wheel lacing patterns... or even take Dr Bridgewood on a ride in a car I showed at Hampton Court Palace when I caught him for a quick photo before he disappeared on his bike.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video, excellent work. I've never played with wheels and spokes since I was told that a spoke key was a £5 tool you could do £500 worth of damage with.
Another good video (polar opposite of this deep dive, which I do love bc I've never built a wheel either) might be the "turn your bike upside down, spend 5 minutes truing the wheel using the brake pads as the truing stand" because even as a total newbie I was able to put a few turns of the spoke key in and make the wheels spin straighter. It really is that easy, I mean it's about like turning the barrel adjuster on your derailleur. That is maybe a secret advantage of rim brakes, because when you have any kind of wobble in your wheel you want to get rid of it and avoid any rubbing. Whereas on my disc brake bike I have no idea if the wheels are laterally true ... although also I don't really care so maybe that's a vote for disc brakes!
Interested in wheel building - Ryan Builds Wheels runs weekend courses where you can build your own wheels of choice under supervision at a very affordable package. I built a set of 29" 3 cross MTB wheels alongside blokes building road/race/touring wheels, with him - one of the best spends I've ever splashed out on. Very informative, and enjoyable weekend. I can now service, true, repair my own wheels, which has saved so time waiting for someone to do it for me.
I taught myself using the book "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt . Still have a go now and again if I find any rim needs replacing . Its more fun if the rim is 2nd hand egg shaped before you start . :)
Great idea for one of the best tech/DIY videos of the intricacies of wheel building, getting conversation from Calvin and Alex going over the finer details and points. 'Looking forward to every episode in this series as the wheels are built! - Thank you both!
Excellent tutorial. I built a rear wheel for a single speed bike so the spokes were equal. It is really good to see the nuances which make the difference. I wasted a lot of time doing it by trial and error before getting it right.
Wife "bought" me a wheel set kit for Christmas two years ago. I sourced the components from different venders. Bought a spoke tension gauge and torx nipple wrench. I'm happy with the results. I call this bike my restomod, 1980 frame with 2022 drive line.
Absolutely amazing video. One of the best how-to/tech vids you've produced in ages. I may actually give wheelbuilding a try again, as I need to build up something basically what you are here.
The black art of wheel building! I don't do it often but there is great satisfaction riding wheels you've put together yourself. One thing i would say, those old hubs look a bit battered, check the spoke holes for damage/cracks and make sure the bearings are well adjusted before you build them up, can save you a lot of time when you get to the truing stage, especially dishing the rear wheel.
I have been building wheels since 1980 and I want mention that radial spokes on vintage hubs are a bad idea. Radial spokes create shear across a smaller x-section and will fail in shear during use making a perfectly good hub useless. I have seen this on both Campy Record and Shimano DuraAce from the 80’s with light weight riders (about 65-70 kg).
Started building wheels 30yrs ago, mainly stock wheels at first. And then special order ones, nearly all for retro builds. Which are now my main source builds. The New Factory build stuff by machine seem to be bullet proof, not suprising really as technology takes over the feel and eye.
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd 36h rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
@@ralphc1405 3x and 4x patterns give a slightly softer feel to the ride. Rims will give more over a wider area spreading any load thru the spokes. Always use 14g straight spokes, only DB and bladed if someone specifically asks. Or supplies the spokes they want.
I built my first set of wheels back about 1972. And spoke length has always been the real question. I still ride a front wheel that build in 1980. Mavic mod E rim, Campy Record hub, bladed spokes, one cross.
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
@ In theory higher cross with longer spokes gives a wheel that is laterally stiffer and radially softer. But the differences are only a couple of percent. I have built everything from radial to 4 cross. And from 40 spoke to 28. The rims make more difference.
I rebuilt my rear wheel with a DT Swiss 411 asymmetric rim and a hope hub with a slightly bigger flange on the non-drive side. It's not as zen and mysterious as people make out. If you have the right size spokes for each side and a tension thing to tell you the limit, it kind of trues itself. The fist time I put one together I used zip ties on the chain-stay. After that I invested in a truing stand (the red and silver that usually gets bad reviews on-line).
Love a bit of wheel building 👌. My advice is take your time and don't make eye contact with the next spoke position or you'll lose your way. Just follow the pattern!
I once built a set of 36 spoke wheels where 12 of the spokes were radial and the other 24 were the lenght of a 3-cross spoke. The longer ones were the usual leading and trailing and they intersected with the radial one in one spot. I think someone called it a "crow foot pattern" but I am not sure. But they worked fine for years until I sold that bike. They felt stiffer on bumps than the usuall 3-cross but that might have been my imagination. I also built a monocycle wheel for someone with 3-cross length spokes but instead of alternating direction every spoke it had 3 leading, then 3 trailing, 3 leading etc. Made a very cool looking 3-side pattern in the wheel. With a really nice access to the valve, a gap all the way to the hub above it. Anyway the point is once you get some practice with the normal spoke patterns you can try having some fun with it on wheels where saving every gram or getting every bit of strength is not required. If you just want a cool looking bike for commuting for example.
The main thing I've picked up from doing tons of wheels over my career cycling is that it's not as tempermental as you're initially taught to believe. Calvin touches on that, and he's 100% right of course. It's a bike wheel, it'll be fine. The main thing though I have noticed, is balanced tension is clutch. You can have a lot of nonsense along the way, that doesn't matter, but balancing your tension is where I spend most of my time and effort. Have many sets of wheels with over 10k miles and they didn't even pop or ping on first ride. Dive in, it's not so bad to learn.
I balanced the last pair of wheels I built (including the inner tubes and tyres) using adhesive lead tape (golfing weights) under the rim tape. When they are balanced, you can spin them up to high speed and the bike doesn’t shake on the bike stand. I’m not sure how much of a difference it makes when actually riding the bike but it seems like the right thing to do to complete a proper job. Needed about 13g of lead per wheel near the valve hole -a surprisingly large amount-for TPU inner tubes with plastic valves.
I've (re)built several wheels. My current road bike has a self built (fillet brazed) steel frame and fork. I could have bought a set of wheels for less, but as a matter of principle I decided selfmade was the right way to finish the project. One thing I spend extra time on is de-stressing the wheel. For example: a new spoke will exit the hub and be angled away from the rim. If you manually adjust it (nudging it at the hub to align it better), that takes away some of the flex that would normally occur in the first miles of riding.
I had never had a broken spoke until I read "Tailwinds Across America." The Author kept getting them on his trans-American ride and I thought it was unbelievable. Then one after another my MTB's front wheel kept popping spokes. The Aluminum nipples were becoming corroded and fracturing, so I took the opportunity to get some neon green nipples to match my paint and rebuild the entire wheel with the old hoops. As much as I liked the rebuilt wheels I probably wouldn't do it again.
That’s great. That’s exactly what I did. I went to a bike shop and i saw a guy building a wheel and i asked him could he teach me how to build a wheel? He said yes but I would have to build his shop ten wheels for the lesson. I actually built 30 wheels for that shop. The last couple were alloy rims. Then I built the two rims for my time trial bike. I didn’t use stainless spikes to build my wheels i used TI spokes. It was a new lesson for me. I hated those spikes because I could see the spokes moving around while I was riding. Good luck it’s kinda fun to build wheels.
Building a wheel is incredibly satisfying, almost as satisfying as shifting gears with my remotely controlled groupset SofaShift which allows me to change gears without having to actually ride the bicycle,
Kalvin has a huge cycling knowledge base but I find it really difficult to understand much of what he says. Thank goodness for Alex's occasional interpretations 😊
if i had to measure each guitar string before changing them... or have a floating [floyd rose] hub in my wheel... i'd get on my disc wheel aerobike and stick with the piano.
I started with a winter bike i had. It had a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. Drop bar steel frame 700c not your grandads air raid patrol bike and it needed a new rim. I took the parts to my LBS and waited two weeks for my wheel when i know a guy had his campag veloce 9s built up in three days. guess my old Sturmey Archer was uncool. I learned to build my own after that. I made a tool that cuts down and rerolls spokes that doesnt cost as much as the average carbon bike like the Phil Wood tool and happy days!
I opted to buy wheels from Light Bicycle as you can customize just about every part of the wheels and they build them. While I like doing most of my own bicycle building and repair, wheel building is something I'd do so infrequently that I figure I'll leave it to those with the proper tools and knowledge.
It used to be pretty commonplace in the 50s. I know the my late father built all his own wheels when he was racing. I think there's still 2 unused Mavic 27" tub rims in his garage, which we are sadly about to clear out.
Ah, the iconic Magic Open Pro. I've had many a pair built back in the day. It would be really interesting to know what percentage of your viewers will be using this information against how many tune in for interest or nostalgic reasons.
The Open SUP cd rims were even BETTER than the original open pros. They were welded and sanded at the seams to create a stiffer racing clincher rim. My 36h SUP open rims are 30 plus years old still track straight training on Tempo pace club rides
This video comes at the perfect time since I’m getting ready to build my first set of wheels!! Question: What’s the purpose of the dishing tool? Shouldn’t the rim always be centered between the ends of the axle and doesn’t the truing stand do this?
In my experience if you've calculated the spoke length correctly and turned each nipple the same amount of times in the initial stage of the build you shouldn't be that far out. You can make a dishing tool yourself, or flip the wheel in the stand. That will show you uf you need to move the hub left or right.
I have build a pair of RR 511 DT Swiss using their 350 hubs and online calculator. Using the same manufacturer for all components makes things a bit easier but still made some mistakes on spokes length. It always needs to ensure the calculation is correct and the vendor delivers the correct spokes...
I have built wheels for each of my bikes except my Commuter bike. I have fewer problems with my handbuilt wheels than I do with the factory-built wheels on the commuter.
No one can improvise himself in building such a key component of the bike. A video to show how to replace a broken spoke would be more useful, applicable without jeopardising everyone's life
I did. I read Roger Musson's book, did a bit more reading and watched some videos and made a wheel. It was much better than the old factory one it replaced and several thousand miles later both it and the matching one I made for the front are still going strong (which I can't say for the last factory wheel I bought which shook the spokes loose after maybe 1000km). It takes time, and understanding and double and treble checking every measurement but it's not that hard to get a reliable wheel if you're not pushing any boundaries.
You can even improvise here. You need a wrench, and you can use the bike as the truing stand in worst case. Talent and skills have a bigger impact here than expensive tools, even if these tools make it easier for sure. Somebody with no skills at all will not get that done from beginning on.
@@simonm1447 yeah bike forks work well for a truing stand- use a zip tie or rim brakes as a reference. Then flip the wheel round to check the dish (assuming it's not one of the very few asymmetric frames - if you have that dish it by eye to the bike).
For the start it's a good practise to use an old wheel, in the easiest case a symmetric front wheel for rim brakes. Here you have all spokes in the same length, with less room for error or the need for spoke calculations. You can practise and practise again until you get usable results, without the risk of damaging something. If you have good enough results here you can start to build asymmetric wheels you really use on a bike. It's not rocket science, it's all about understanding how to do it and getting experience through practising.
Wow. I see you're going "my way". I had the same issue two years ago. Wheel-set to restore and nobody wanted to fix it for me (2010 Ultegra racing wheels). Solution? I took some Calvin Jones lessons and build these and actually made yet another new set (DT-Swiss based). Must say I went for straight-pull solution. Bit easier than j-bend in calculating lengths, even so - I ended up in ordering 1 mm too long spokes. Wanted to stay on a safe side, but after I built the wheel, I couldn't tighten the nipples. The problem was the spokes went too deep and the thread ended up. Half a year ago I would say II have 3 wheelsets for two bikes. Unfortunately some careless driver finished off my rebuilt Ultegra-s. Time to take a chance on some fancy carbon rims ;-)
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
Built some wheel , still a lot of improvement space. Looking forward to see the usage of the tensiometer. Ps: I’m sure audio next time will be better 😉
I recently built my first set of wheels. The building part was pretty straight forward but calculating the spoke length was a tough one for me. Seems like a lot of margin for error with measurements to get the right calculation.
It doesn't really take that much for basic wheels like these. You need the right spoke wrench and a frame to hang the hub from. Old park truing stands are available online. Just be sure to get the measurements right and order precut spokes.
As a mechanic my tip is: don’t do it 😅 we already have enough to do fixing your other mistakes. Fixing the wrongly built wheel is a big hassle. As always, disclaimer would be nice on this kind of videos!!
If the new hub has the same dimensions, yes. You also want to keep the pattern the same with each spoke playing the same role so it's crossing in the same places and bending in the same way. I would either use masking tape to label every spoke and hole in the hub and every hole in the rim then take a load of photos, or start with new spokes. Spokes aren't too expensive but it does mean you're out of a bike while the spokes are in the post.
Love this kind of video! I am, though, really irritated by that term "vernier" caliper! There are vernier calipers, dial calipers and digital calipers. They are all quite different and differing in ease of use. Vernier calipers are the most difficult which involves aligning precise lines and for accuracy several readings need to be taken. Digital calipers are not vernier, dial calipers are not vernier. Vernier calipers are based on logarithmic distances and are quite rare now days. Of course I own many sizes of these as well as many sizes of micrometers using vernier scales. Please call dials calipers or digital calipers using the correct nomenclature! Sorry but I had to get this off my chest! AGH! I built my own wheels in the sixties and seventies.
Can we please address the price of quality spokes? They usually retail as if you need just one replacement and often out of stock. Or you get a deal starting from 500 pieces of very limited lenghts you most likely need to cut down and re-thread. Therefore seemingly the simplest part of the wheel turns out sometimes to cost more than a hub or the rim.
In Germany you get Sapim spokes for example in individual numbers and lengths from 35 cts per spoke from a major bike part retailer from Dresden. Other retailers sell 20 or 37 spokes in a package.
@@simonm1447 you mean non-butted Sapim Leader or single-butted Race in silver, I guess? Well, the same shop has CX-Ray for "only" 2,50€/piece. For the whole wheelset it is already comparable to an XT hubset. Another well known shop - from Bocholt - offers DT Champion as low as 5c/piece sometimes, normally in range around 20c. But if you want to go butted, back to around 1€ again. And must I remind you we talk German shops that arguably have the very best retail deals around the world. Now think how hard it is for Brits, for example.
@feedbackzaloop that's the leader. Of course that fancy racing stuff is expensive, because it's always expensive. The last 5 grams people try to save in weight are always the most expensive grams to save
@@gcntech well... obviously.. But the problem i wanted to highlight here is that if how to measure if one are missing spokes and nipples. One/you cant assume people have all that's needed. as off now the video is not complete and not all that thought thru
For brand rims information like the ERD often can be found online, in shops selling these rims or on the manufacturer website. The same for hubs, but hubs are relatively simple to measure. If you can't find the information you can use a 2 rulers used by carpenters, 2 measurement tapes or a laser to measure the inside of the rim, don't forget to add the wall thickness of the rim twice to get the ERD
You know what, GCN is the big dog in the youtube cycling space. You all have been at this for years. There's just no excuse for the horrible audio. Consult with someone. Mic-up properly. Tame your room sound. You have 740k subscribers, There are folks with 740 subscribers that have figured this out. If you're professionals, be professional. You have cameras figured out. Microphones aren't more difficult.
@@gcntech at the absolute minimum, place a cell phone in front of you and record audio. I did that with a 2020 iPhone SE when I had impromptu film Lillo Brancato and a tiny bit of post audio isolation worked wonders.
@@windscreen91 I wish I agreed that it had anything to do with the new studio. I don't. They get great audio on locations shoots and in the field. The best it's ever been on set is just okay. They all need to wear lavaliers on set, set the gain and volume properly, and treat the room with sound baffling. They *could* use compression and a noise gate, but that's not really necessary when things are done right. They could sort all of this by letting a pro consult with them for a day.
build dont buy i dont have the tools to bild my own wheels but recently did have a set done through the ike shop , took a gamble on some chinese hubs and had them laced up to stans flow mk4 with dt swiss nipples and sapim spokes , it was not cheap by any means but still cheaper than trying to buy something equivalent where i live , love me new wheels
Ali Clarkson has a series on wheel building that is pretty fantastic. If you have the stamina for an hour+ of spoke lacing it is worth it (or skip to the relevant parts). ua-cam.com/video/EEv9IqMvUnQ/v-deo.html
Have you ever tried to build your own wheels? 🛞
I have and still do. Ever since not being happy with the LBS after waiting, paying and not completely happy with the results.
And most wheels I bought aren´t completely true and stressed out of the box so I just spent some serious Euros on the tools and now I know I´m riding solid wheels. Thank you GCN I learned from watching ParkTools videos but its never enough reminding and talk about it again! Cheers GCN and the legendary,
Sir Calvin!
If I’m going to put the time and effort into learning a skill,
it’s either got to be one that’s highly interesting, one that saves a substantial amount of money, one that I can profit from, or one I can eventually perform to a higher quality standard. I’m just not feeling it with the whole wheel building thing. I could probably never build a better or cheaper wheel.
Built my own wheels for decades, but quit when the advent of computerized wheel building boosted the quality and reduced the price of factory wheels to less than the cost of the components. Better wheels, lower cost, no brainer. Now, with so many exotic materials and designs, I leave it to the experts (factory, not LBS).
Yea. I have build several pairs of wheel for myself and even sold a couple. Road, cx and mtb. It's fun and rewarding.
Me faltan:
- Conocer la medida de los rayos a cabalidad. Tanto el grosor, como propiedades para cada disciplina.
- Un centrador. Ya que uso frenos de herradura.
- Conocer como "tejer" los rayos o hacer en rayado de 0x, 1x, 2x o 3x.
Edit: Saber eliminar en lo posible el salto vertical, y aparaguar la rueda.
Lacing and truing my own wheels is one of the most therapeutic and satisfying things I’ve ever done.
Wheel building is the one bike related thing that is still a black art to me. Looking forward to the series.
it really is a huge skill and master wheelbuilders were a huge "thing" for many years!
I've built most of my own wheels since the 1980s. It's a zen task. You cant rush lacing and tensioning.
There's three ways the rim can go and it just needs balancing out:
1. Tighten spokes on both sides in one area if the diameter has a bulge.
2. Tighten one side to make the rim go that way (or loosen the other side).
3. Tighten all spokes on one side to get the rim central (dish).
Old school content - love it. Even if you'd never need to build a wheel, it's good to know how it works. Never say never.
Bingo
Everyone should be able to replace a broken spoke or nipple at least
Or truing a wheelset after a crash the correct way, so that you’ve still got even spoketension after the repair…
I’ve tried that on a couple of occations🙄
We want more of Calvin!
I've never really been interested in building wheels (time and patience being the two things I lack) but he has a way of captivating the audience
Built my first set of wheels back around 1976! It's a bit intimidating at the start, but you get over that quickly. Like most bike maintenance, it's a useful skill and gives you the ability to handle whatever happens. You can't do much better than learning from Calvin!
Congrats, GCN, 12 years in, finally a real video on wheel building, Not that "Si visiting a DT Swiss factory" nonsense.
They got it done in 8... Though this series will be much greater depth by the look.
ua-cam.com/video/HTC5KebZyeo/v-deo.html
Calvin, across the ocean: perfect audio
GCN man, in the studio where they produce this stuff: echoey room audio 🤦♂️
The new megabase seems to be in the back of a trailer or industrial estate or something! Would be pretty punk if they covered the walls with carpet or moving blankets, like a basement recording studio
I don't understand why this keeps happening. And if it happens, there's plenty of tools to clean it up.
@@adrechsel it's hard to pump out content for daily videos, but if it's sloppy people won't want to watch
Having built several sets of wheels for myself I've made a few mistakes along the way (to short of a spoke on the non-driveside of the rear wheel trying to save some money, didn't work out, the alloy nipples were breaking) . But I've gotten better with each build. My most recent pair was a 48 spoke 5 cross on Philwood hubs for my 44 year old Santana tandem. I'm rolling along with great confidence on my new wheels, I get great satisfaction building my wheels.
5 cross! nice!
Hand built wheels using Open Pro rims and DT Swiss stainless steel spokes with brass nipples are exactly what I have (though a Shimano hub). My local bike shop build them up. Sturdy as anything and never go out of true.
I'd do ANYTHING to have Park Tools' Calvin on my Zoom or speed-dial!!!
anything? 🙂
@@gcntech ya - i'd let the GCN presenters have a go on any of the vintage bikes in my collection, all with different wheel lacing patterns... or even take Dr Bridgewood on a ride in a car I showed at Hampton Court Palace when I caught him for a quick photo before he disappeared on his bike.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video, excellent work. I've never played with wheels and spokes since I was told that a spoke key was a £5 tool you could do £500 worth of damage with.
Another good video (polar opposite of this deep dive, which I do love bc I've never built a wheel either) might be the "turn your bike upside down, spend 5 minutes truing the wheel using the brake pads as the truing stand" because even as a total newbie I was able to put a few turns of the spoke key in and make the wheels spin straighter. It really is that easy, I mean it's about like turning the barrel adjuster on your derailleur.
That is maybe a secret advantage of rim brakes, because when you have any kind of wobble in your wheel you want to get rid of it and avoid any rubbing. Whereas on my disc brake bike I have no idea if the wheels are laterally true ... although also I don't really care so maybe that's a vote for disc brakes!
Interested in wheel building - Ryan Builds Wheels runs weekend courses where you can build your own wheels of choice under supervision at a very affordable package. I built a set of 29" 3 cross MTB wheels alongside blokes building road/race/touring wheels, with him - one of the best spends I've ever splashed out on. Very informative, and enjoyable weekend. I can now service, true, repair my own wheels, which has saved so time waiting for someone to do it for me.
I taught myself using the book "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt . Still have a go now and again if I find any rim needs replacing . Its more fun if the rim is 2nd hand egg shaped before you start . :)
the "bible" of wheel builders....everyone should have a copy
Great idea for one of the best tech/DIY videos of the intricacies of wheel building, getting conversation from Calvin and Alex going over the finer details and points. 'Looking forward to every episode in this series as the wheels are built! - Thank you both!
Excellent tutorial. I built a rear wheel for a single speed bike so the spokes were equal. It is really good to see the nuances which make the difference. I wasted a lot of time doing it by trial and error before getting it right.
This is the sort of video we need on the tech channel. Great.
Thank you very much for this series! This is exactly what I need ! I would like to learn how to do it . 😊
Wife "bought" me a wheel set kit for Christmas two years ago. I sourced the components from different venders. Bought a spoke tension gauge and torx nipple wrench. I'm happy with the results. I call this bike my restomod, 1980 frame with 2022 drive line.
Absolutely amazing video. One of the best how-to/tech vids you've produced in ages.
I may actually give wheelbuilding a try again, as I need to build up something basically what you are here.
The black art of wheel building! I don't do it often but there is great satisfaction riding wheels you've put together yourself. One thing i would say, those old hubs look a bit battered, check the spoke holes for damage/cracks and make sure the bearings are well adjusted before you build them up, can save you a lot of time when you get to the truing stage, especially dishing the rear wheel.
Thanks GCN. Great content. I am planning on building my 1st wheels this year
GREAT STUFF. LOVE IT! Looking forward to the next episode! Good work boys!
I have been building wheels since 1980 and I want mention that radial spokes on vintage hubs are a bad idea. Radial spokes create shear across a smaller x-section and will fail in shear during use making a perfectly good hub useless. I have seen this on both Campy Record and Shimano DuraAce from the 80’s with light weight riders (about 65-70 kg).
Indeed, hubs have to be made for radial spokes. Even modern, tough hubs like Deore XT hubs are not officially allowed by Shimano for a radial pattern.
What a wonderful idea! I assembled a bike myself, but wheel is completely at a different level. 👍🏾❤️
idk what any of this mustached voodoo doctor is saying...but its beautiful and truly an art form
Started building wheels 30yrs ago, mainly stock wheels at first. And then special order ones, nearly all for retro builds. Which are now my main source builds. The New Factory build stuff by machine seem to be bullet proof, not suprising really as technology takes over the feel and eye.
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd 36h rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
@@ralphc1405 3x and 4x patterns give a slightly softer feel to the ride. Rims will give more over a wider area spreading any load thru the spokes. Always use 14g straight spokes, only DB and bladed if someone specifically asks. Or supplies the spokes they want.
I built my first set of wheels back about 1972.
And spoke length has always been the real question.
I still ride a front wheel that build in 1980.
Mavic mod E rim, Campy Record hub, bladed spokes, one cross.
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
@
In theory higher cross with longer spokes gives a wheel that is laterally stiffer and radially softer. But the differences are only a couple of percent.
I have built everything from radial to 4 cross. And from 40 spoke to 28.
The rims make more difference.
Great video Alex I would also recommend Jobst Brants' Wheel Building Bible "The Bicycle Wheel"
I rebuilt my rear wheel with a DT Swiss 411 asymmetric rim and a hope hub with a slightly bigger flange on the non-drive side. It's not as zen and mysterious as people make out. If you have the right size spokes for each side and a tension thing to tell you the limit, it kind of trues itself. The fist time I put one together I used zip ties on the chain-stay. After that I invested in a truing stand (the red and silver that usually gets bad reviews on-line).
Dang you're lucky to get Calvin to teach you. I've been making my own wheels for a long time but I wouldn't mind hearing his input on what I'm doing.
Love a bit of wheel building 👌. My advice is take your time and don't make eye contact with the next spoke position or you'll lose your way. Just follow the pattern!
Always nice to see these yougsters to get in to higher bicyclery.
I love the showroom shop. I can promise that 25 commuter Topangas are not coming through weekly 😊
I once built a set of 36 spoke wheels where 12 of the spokes were radial and the other 24 were the lenght of a 3-cross spoke. The longer ones were the usual leading and trailing and they intersected with the radial one in one spot. I think someone called it a "crow foot pattern" but I am not sure. But they worked fine for years until I sold that bike. They felt stiffer on bumps than the usuall 3-cross but that might have been my imagination.
I also built a monocycle wheel for someone with 3-cross length spokes but instead of alternating direction every spoke it had 3 leading, then 3 trailing, 3 leading etc. Made a very cool looking 3-side pattern in the wheel. With a really nice access to the valve, a gap all the way to the hub above it.
Anyway the point is once you get some practice with the normal spoke patterns you can try having some fun with it on wheels where saving every gram or getting every bit of strength is not required. If you just want a cool looking bike for commuting for example.
The main thing I've picked up from doing tons of wheels over my career cycling is that it's not as tempermental as you're initially taught to believe. Calvin touches on that, and he's 100% right of course. It's a bike wheel, it'll be fine. The main thing though I have noticed, is balanced tension is clutch. You can have a lot of nonsense along the way, that doesn't matter, but balancing your tension is where I spend most of my time and effort. Have many sets of wheels with over 10k miles and they didn't even pop or ping on first ride. Dive in, it's not so bad to learn.
You can get away with a lot on your own wheels.
I balanced the last pair of wheels I built (including the inner tubes and tyres) using adhesive lead tape (golfing weights) under the rim tape.
When they are balanced, you can spin them up to high speed and the bike doesn’t shake on the bike stand. I’m not sure how much of a difference it makes when actually riding the bike but it seems like the right thing to do to complete a proper job.
Needed about 13g of lead per wheel near the valve hole -a surprisingly large amount-for TPU inner tubes with plastic valves.
I've (re)built several wheels. My current road bike has a self built (fillet brazed) steel frame and fork. I could have bought a set of wheels for less, but as a matter of principle I decided selfmade was the right way to finish the project.
One thing I spend extra time on is de-stressing the wheel. For example: a new spoke will exit the hub and be angled away from the rim. If you manually adjust it (nudging it at the hub to align it better), that takes away some of the flex that would normally occur in the first miles of riding.
There is nothing quite like building a set of wheels yourself!
Calvin is so rad.
Dura Ace hubs in the spare bin maybe?
Surely Alex needs a couple of minutes to see what's there.
I don’t think I’ll ever build a wheel, but learning how it works is really interesting and I think makes me a more informed cyclist
I had never had a broken spoke until I read "Tailwinds Across America." The Author kept getting them on his trans-American ride and I thought it was unbelievable. Then one after another my MTB's front wheel kept popping spokes. The Aluminum nipples were becoming corroded and fracturing, so I took the opportunity to get some neon green nipples to match my paint and rebuild the entire wheel with the old hoops. As much as I liked the rebuilt wheels I probably wouldn't do it again.
Leans over and finds a dura ace set of wheels😮
at approx 8% of market value
Love this
I love classic db spoked wheels. 3x rear for me. Radial front for a slightly more modern vibe and less crosswind autosteer.
My takeaway from this is to focus on mastering the fundamentals as a new wheel builder. The goal is to build a reliable wheel, not to reinvent it.
That’s great. That’s exactly what I did. I went to a bike shop and i saw a guy building a wheel and i asked him could he teach me how to build a wheel? He said yes but I would have to build his shop ten wheels for the lesson. I actually built 30 wheels for that shop. The last couple were alloy rims. Then I built the two rims for my time trial bike. I didn’t use stainless spikes to build my wheels i used TI spokes. It was a new lesson for me. I hated those spikes because I could see the spokes moving around while I was riding. Good luck it’s kinda fun to build wheels.
Building a wheel is incredibly satisfying, almost as satisfying as shifting gears with my remotely controlled groupset SofaShift which allows me to change gears without having to actually ride the bicycle,
And what’s the use of that? 😂
It's 2 grand a pop
Kalvin has a huge cycling knowledge base but I find it really difficult to understand much of what he says. Thank goodness for Alex's occasional interpretations 😊
Yes, it is like restringing a guitar only there is 32 instead of 6.
🎸 or 4 if a bass!
And they not just need to be "in-tune" so to say, but keep the rim in dead center of the bike, or as close as it can get.
if i had to measure each guitar string before changing them... or have a floating [floyd rose] hub in my wheel... i'd get on my disc wheel aerobike and stick with the piano.
@@carlyuen4360Sure, it does not use strings. ;)
Brilliant analogy! But if they all sound EADGBE when you tap them have a look at that tension
I started with a winter bike i had. It had a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. Drop bar steel frame 700c not your grandads air raid patrol bike and it needed a new rim. I took the parts to my LBS and waited two weeks for my wheel when i know a guy had his campag veloce 9s built up in three days. guess my old Sturmey Archer was uncool. I learned to build my own after that. I made a tool that cuts down and rerolls spokes that doesnt cost as much as the average carbon bike like the Phil Wood tool and happy days!
Great! Great! Great! This is something I wanna get into! Question! Could I re-lace some Rim brake carbon hoops with disc brake hubs?
I opted to buy wheels from Light Bicycle as you can customize just about every part of the wheels and they build them. While I like doing most of my own bicycle building and repair, wheel building is something I'd do so infrequently that I figure I'll leave it to those with the proper tools and knowledge.
It used to be pretty commonplace in the 50s. I know the my late father built all his own wheels when he was racing. I think there's still 2 unused Mavic 27" tub rims in his garage, which we are sadly about to clear out.
One sec, let me grab my notebook!!!
Calvin from ParkTool has deprived my LBS of thousands of dollars of my business over the years.
I built my own wheels, rode on them for 6 months and they didn't even need truing.
Great, What was the hardest part of build them?
Built up 2 sets, simply amazing. Once you build Your own,
Normal wheels just don’t feel as nice.
Nice! What wheels did you build?
💯👋 Same here. They are just yours and you don't need to ask anyone for mercy on fixing them.
wheel sets for my franken bike commuter.
Wtb frequency i19 27.5 32h
Wtb scraper i40s 27.5 32h
Wheel master nipple washer
Wheel smiths spoke prep
Sapim brass 14g “scraper”
Sapim alloy “frequency”
Sapim laser L274 R276
Shimano Deore xt m756 6 bolt
Get Clavin, Josh Portner and Adam from Zero Friction together in one video and just let them talk for two hours. I'll be here
Ah, the iconic Magic Open Pro. I've had many a pair built back in the day. It would be really interesting to know what percentage of your viewers will be using this information against how many tune in for interest or nostalgic reasons.
The Open SUP cd rims were even BETTER than the original open pros. They were welded and sanded at the seams to create a stiffer racing clincher rim. My 36h SUP open rims are 30 plus years old still track straight training on Tempo pace club rides
@@ralphc1405 Yes, they were. But, the Open Pro was the classic that led the way for the SUP.
This video comes at the perfect time since I’m getting ready to build my first set of wheels!! Question: What’s the purpose of the dishing tool? Shouldn’t the rim always be centered between the ends of the axle and doesn’t the truing stand do this?
In my experience if you've calculated the spoke length correctly and turned each nipple the same amount of times in the initial stage of the build you shouldn't be that far out. You can make a dishing tool yourself, or flip the wheel in the stand. That will show you uf you need to move the hub left or right.
I have build a pair of RR 511 DT Swiss using their 350 hubs and online calculator. Using the same manufacturer for all components makes things a bit easier but still made some mistakes on spokes length. It always needs to ensure the calculation is correct and the vendor delivers the correct spokes...
I have built wheels for each of my bikes except my Commuter bike. I have fewer problems with my handbuilt wheels than I do with the factory-built wheels on the commuter.
Audio quality is having some issues on the GCN tech side. Sounds like you would need some sound proofing. 🎧
Ollie took the soundproofing for some aero bar padding!
@@gcntech Solid! Love the content, and now I kind of want to see these aero bars...
No one can improvise himself in building such a key component of the bike. A video to show how to replace a broken spoke would be more useful, applicable without jeopardising everyone's life
Thanks for the comment, we've got that exact video for you! ua-cam.com/video/AVkutWBkWd8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=GlobalCyclingNetwork 👍
I did. I read Roger Musson's book, did a bit more reading and watched some videos and made a wheel. It was much better than the old factory one it replaced and several thousand miles later both it and the matching one I made for the front are still going strong (which I can't say for the last factory wheel I bought which shook the spokes loose after maybe 1000km).
It takes time, and understanding and double and treble checking every measurement but it's not that hard to get a reliable wheel if you're not pushing any boundaries.
You can even improvise here. You need a wrench, and you can use the bike as the truing stand in worst case. Talent and skills have a bigger impact here than expensive tools, even if these tools make it easier for sure.
Somebody with no skills at all will not get that done from beginning on.
@@simonm1447 yeah bike forks work well for a truing stand- use a zip tie or rim brakes as a reference.
Then flip the wheel round to check the dish (assuming it's not one of the very few asymmetric frames - if you have that dish it by eye to the bike).
maybe some day. one time i tried to true a wheel and it was way worse after me trying to do it than it was previously. 😀
ah yes, it is a skill!
For the start it's a good practise to use an old wheel, in the easiest case a symmetric front wheel for rim brakes. Here you have all spokes in the same length, with less room for error or the need for spoke calculations.
You can practise and practise again until you get usable results, without the risk of damaging something.
If you have good enough results here you can start to build asymmetric wheels you really use on a bike.
It's not rocket science, it's all about understanding how to do it and getting experience through practising.
If you can find Gerd Schraner's book....building wheels is easy!
Wow. I see you're going "my way". I had the same issue two years ago. Wheel-set to restore and nobody wanted to fix it for me (2010 Ultegra racing wheels). Solution? I took some Calvin Jones lessons and build these and actually made yet another new set (DT-Swiss based). Must say I went for straight-pull solution. Bit easier than j-bend in calculating lengths, even so - I ended up in ordering 1 mm too long spokes. Wanted to stay on a safe side, but after I built the wheel, I couldn't tighten the nipples. The problem was the spokes went too deep and the thread ended up. Half a year ago I would say II have 3 wheelsets for two bikes. Unfortunately some careless driver finished off my rebuilt Ultegra-s. Time to take a chance on some fancy carbon rims ;-)
There's nothing quite like building your own!
Back in 2020 during Covid I got around to building a retro Campagnolo SR/C-record bike and went to a LBS with a pair of MAVIC S.U.P. Open cd rims and specifically asked for a bombproof 3x straight gauge spoke pattern. What I got was a 2x pattern. I been riding the hell out of them so they seem strong. What are the pros/cons between 3x and 2x???
Cool
You said at the beginning that you were using a 32 spoke rims and hubs but you calculated with 36 spokes!
Built some wheel , still a lot of improvement space. Looking forward to see the usage of the tensiometer.
Ps: I’m sure audio next time will be better 😉
Thank you for the comment, we're working on it.
I recently built my first set of wheels. The building part was pretty straight forward but calculating the spoke length was a tough one for me. Seems like a lot of margin for error with measurements to get the right calculation.
Thank you for the video but my only thing is you have to have a lot of tools to build a wheel as how often will you want to build a wheel
It doesn't really take that much for basic wheels like these. You need the right spoke wrench and a frame to hang the hub from. Old park truing stands are available online. Just be sure to get the measurements right and order precut spokes.
Did Calvin just tell us not to buy ParkTool? ;-)
I wouldn't trust riding on wheels that I built, scary. I love the info though!
Practice makes perfect
Gcn is using microphones from Temu?😂
Could you please notate another spokes length calculator that includes NuVinci (Enviolo)?
How did you go from 2.0 recommended to using 1.8 which weren't recommended?
Double butted, 2mm / 1.8 / 2mm this is a standard 14 gauge butted spoke
Rather build up some carbon/deep section wheels :)
maybe in the future, luckily the principle is the same 👍
@@gcntech thats good to hear, best to start with an aluminium rim though !
As a mechanic my tip is: don’t do it 😅 we already have enough to do fixing your other mistakes. Fixing the wrongly built wheel is a big hassle.
As always, disclaimer would be nice on this kind of videos!!
I've knackered my rear hub. Can I just swap it out and keep the same spokes etc?
You could, but generally you use new spokes as the old spokes could be slightly misshaped due to previous crossover pattern. Thanks
@gcntech great. Look forward to the next video so i can learn what to do
If the new hub has the same dimensions, yes. You also want to keep the pattern the same with each spoke playing the same role so it's crossing in the same places and bending in the same way.
I would either use masking tape to label every spoke and hole in the hub and every hole in the rim then take a load of photos, or start with new spokes. Spokes aren't too expensive but it does mean you're out of a bike while the spokes are in the post.
@@jonathanshaw6784 thanks!
Love this kind of video! I am, though, really irritated by that term "vernier" caliper! There are vernier calipers, dial calipers and digital calipers. They are all quite different and differing in ease of use. Vernier calipers are the most difficult which involves aligning precise lines and for accuracy several readings need to be taken. Digital calipers are not vernier, dial calipers are not vernier. Vernier calipers are based on logarithmic distances and are quite rare now days. Of course I own many sizes of these as well as many sizes of micrometers using vernier scales. Please call dials calipers or digital calipers using the correct nomenclature! Sorry but I had to get this off my chest! AGH! I built my own wheels in the sixties and seventies.
i dare you to order brown spokes
Can we please address the price of quality spokes? They usually retail as if you need just one replacement and often out of stock. Or you get a deal starting from 500 pieces of very limited lenghts you most likely need to cut down and re-thread. Therefore seemingly the simplest part of the wheel turns out sometimes to cost more than a hub or the rim.
You're looking in the wrong place. Try wheel builders
@@harryrowland4734 that's where you get cartons of 500. 100 minimum, half the retail price at best.
In Germany you get Sapim spokes for example in individual numbers and lengths from 35 cts per spoke from a major bike part retailer from Dresden. Other retailers sell 20 or 37 spokes in a package.
@@simonm1447 you mean non-butted Sapim Leader or single-butted Race in silver, I guess? Well, the same shop has CX-Ray for "only" 2,50€/piece. For the whole wheelset it is already comparable to an XT hubset.
Another well known shop - from Bocholt - offers DT Champion as low as 5c/piece sometimes, normally in range around 20c. But if you want to go butted, back to around 1€ again.
And must I remind you we talk German shops that arguably have the very best retail deals around the world. Now think how hard it is for Brits, for example.
@feedbackzaloop that's the leader. Of course that fancy racing stuff is expensive, because it's always expensive.
The last 5 grams people try to save in weight are always the most expensive grams to save
"Digital" and "Vernier" are two very different things, and, there's no such thing as a "Digital Vernier".
What if i just have a rim and a hub?
you're going to need to order some spokes, nipples and measuring equipment 👍
@@gcntech well... obviously.. But the problem i wanted to highlight here is that if how to measure if one are missing spokes and nipples. One/you cant assume people have all that's needed. as off now the video is not complete and not all that thought thru
@@croccofantoRyanbuildswheels sells spoke measuring sticks (literally just a cut down spoke with a nipple glued on one end and a known length).
For brand rims information like the ERD often can be found online, in shops selling these rims or on the manufacturer website.
The same for hubs, but hubs are relatively simple to measure.
If you can't find the information you can use a 2 rulers used by carpenters, 2 measurement tapes or a laser to measure the inside of the rim, don't forget to add the wall thickness of the rim twice to get the ERD
Can't you have threads made on spokes if your size isn't available?
You can yes. I remember using a special machine for this back in the mid/late 90s
Double square nipples are now common, you get around 4mm to play with. Often found on factory wheels .saves cutting and rolling
Maybe you should check the calculations again. You said the rims had 32 holes but in the calculator-tool you selected 36.
Every wheelset I build ends up costing more than a comparable wheelset that's already made. The spokes are expensive.
You know what, GCN is the big dog in the youtube cycling space. You all have been at this for years. There's just no excuse for the horrible audio. Consult with someone. Mic-up properly. Tame your room sound. You have 740k subscribers, There are folks with 740 subscribers that have figured this out. If you're professionals, be professional. You have cameras figured out. Microphones aren't more difficult.
Ollie lost them :-(
Yeah, since moving to the new studio, audio has been an echo reverb mess. :(
Came here to say you should lighten up... But you're right, the sound at GCN end is atrocious 🤣🤣🤣
@@gcntech at the absolute minimum, place a cell phone in front of you and record audio. I did that with a 2020 iPhone SE when I had impromptu film Lillo Brancato and a tiny bit of post audio isolation worked wonders.
@@windscreen91 I wish I agreed that it had anything to do with the new studio. I don't. They get great audio on locations shoots and in the field. The best it's ever been on set is just okay. They all need to wear lavaliers on set, set the gain and volume properly, and treat the room with sound baffling. They *could* use compression and a noise gate, but that's not really necessary when things are done right. They could sort all of this by letting a pro consult with them for a day.
build dont buy
i dont have the tools to bild my own wheels but recently did have a set done through the ike shop , took a gamble on some chinese hubs and had them laced up to stans flow mk4 with dt swiss nipples and sapim spokes , it was not cheap by any means but still cheaper than trying to buy something equivalent where i live , love me new wheels
You say you're going to use a set of Mavic Open Pro 32 spoke wheels but then put in "36 spokes" in the calculator.
Ali Clarkson has a series on wheel building that is pretty fantastic. If you have the stamina for an hour+ of spoke lacing it is worth it (or skip to the relevant parts). ua-cam.com/video/EEv9IqMvUnQ/v-deo.html
❤🧡💛💚💜🖤🖤🤍
Alex's audio quality is actually terrible.
Interested, but not loving the guy from Park Tools.
Same! He really needs to change the way he is speaking. He comes across as very condescending. I can’t watch him.
Wha' is a weo?😂