@ How about a deep dive on carbon-aluminum bonding? How do the adhesives work? Galvanic corrosion? I just had a carbon crank arm debond itself from the aluminum axle mount.
@ You guys should do a chat with Data Science Cyclist on this Everesting video from a few years back. He went really deep on muscle recruitment at different grades, and measured neuromuscular activation of different muscle groups.
Bearing test engineer from a big bearing company here. I approve of this message. He knows his stuff. I'm glad he pointed out the marketing bs of ceramics and pulley wheels. I didn't hear anything that was murky or intellectually dishonest.
While a reasonably balanced interview. The annual production of enduro bearings would be a rounding error for SKF, NTN or similar. (I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big OEMs actually make enduro bearings under contract.) Would be really good to hear from one of the industrial leaders about their speciality offerings for aerospace, Space and high speed (+100,000RPM) applications and how that tech can be applied to more mundane applications.
@@manitoublack While I agree that yes, those companies you list are hundreds of times bigger than Enduro, many of offerings that go into aerospace or EVs are not super relevant. You have bearings like a 61806 (standard bb30 bearing) that's rated depending on grease or oil, cage and seal, shield or bare configuration can go well over 20,000 rpm assuming all the mating parts meet tolerances for fits, balance, etc. In a bottom bracket, you have way looser or poor tolerances and a running speed of 90 rpm with occasional bursts of 150-180. Sure you can throw say a super precision bearing in wheels or you bb, but if you're pairing something that has measured and verified 1-2 micron tolerances into a hole that's not even round, despite spending upwards of 10-50x the cost, you're not getting any benefit. For our companies aerospace offerings, depending on the location of the bearing (say in a jet engine) each single roller blank itself is the cost a nice bike bearing, then are made/ground to super tight tolerances almost by hand, then everything is verified/measured and serialized and the net cost is a single roller that's way more than you're most expensive bike bearing and you may have 100+ of these rollers in a single bearing. The net result is a bearing that may be $10s of thousands of dollars where a comparable industrial one may be $500. When a single failure could result in the loss of lives and potentially a 100+ million dollar airplane the aerospace industry is more than willing to pay for this level of detail. The bike industry is not.
I mean, if you buy real one ceramic bearing like they use in todays satellites it's an advantage, but nothinng is protecting us from greedy companies with false advertisement. Tech is there.
Really rare to hear someone from an industry who doesn’t seem interested in selling you anything. Super informative and an enjoyable way to spend an hour.
Well at last a proper educational video about this ceramic bearing myth!!! I am a mechanical engineer from austria so my english naming might be wrong on some things: We use full and hybrid ceramic bearings in some applications. That is because we have revolutions into the 10 and/or 100 THOUSANDS. Here we are talking of forces in the grams (less than 0,1N) or torques below 0,1Newton metres we can save..... We have to spin up things within tenths of seconds. Thats where we use ceramic bearings. We even use bearings with ceramic races in some cases, mostly when they have to deal with extremly agressive fuids contaminatig the races or we dont want metal getting into (medical) fluids....... in our cases ceramic sometimes is a MUST. At high speeds they have an advantage... In biking we are talking about much lower speeds: Headsets: a few degrees per minute Bottom Bracket: 60-80 up to 120/140 Revolutions per minute Pedals: see above..... Wheels: maybe 600 Revolutions /min at 72kph at 100 cadence 11/55 speed in the flat , 1000 at 120kph.... Even the Derailleur Pulley wheels everybody thinks are going so "fast" are just as fast as the rear wheel at maximum. I only do about 24000km/year on the bikeS i own. Having a good set of normal bearings is more than enough. As you said a bad seal or the wrong grease or bad maintenance will totally crap the tenths of Watts you (might) save on a ceramic bearing. When I restarted cycling a few years ago I bought a "expensive" BB because everyone said how "crap" BB86 "normally" were. I have reverted to Shimano DA SM-BB92-41B after the "good" BB started to fail after a year. The cheap Shimano thing just works (AND it is lighter ;-). Again a GREAT video about this topic!!!!! Dont waste your money on ceramic gadgets. Waste it on the N+1 game 🙂
hear, hear! Even the Austrians get it😁 Even speed argument aside and working around contact pressures alone, the rest of bike industry simply doesn't have machining practices providing shape, positioning and stiffness tolerances adequate for ceramic bearings. Outside work environment kugellager-express and bike24 are my go-to sourses of bearings and seals.
Ceramic bearings are much harder and, properly made, the balls are rounder. They roll with less friction. But it isn't very much. So, while this might be of some use for a pro riding for hours on end at or near, maximum output might make a marginal gain the 150 watt sports rider won't realize any significant gains.
I'm not an engineer, to me it's just common sense. But there's always someone who will buy into the bollocks! 😂 Your English is perfect!👍 Please excuse mine!👍
I think you didn’t get the point of the video (or didn’t watch until the end)=>you need to look the bearing as a whole, not just ball material. Ceramic bearing are usually better (but not always-there are also bad ones) not because of the material of the balls, but more because of engineering, seals and grease. I had to change my OEM BB bearings every 2 months (CX racer from AT, so a lot of mud). After changing to ceramic (Enduro didn’t have good steel ones in size needed), I just service them every 6 months and they last 3-4years. Not because they are ceramic, but simply because they are made better. Yes you can get as good steel ones, but they are also almost the price of ceramic(hybrid).
Much more of an interesting conversation than I was expecting. Thank you for producing that one, Alex. Great interview as Matt is very knowledgeable, honest and pragmatic about his products.
@@gcntech It's really hard to say, you probably know best what could be popular. There are so many technical topics that are hard to find, like interviews with carbon experts about differences between carbon layups + resin and their effect on bike stiffness/performance/weight/strength. Maybe a wheel design, with how the hub affect spoke tension and what are the benefits (and drawbacks) or different spoke layout and hub widths. I guess there are so many experts in a bike industry that i don't even know about, it's hard to propose sth. I wouldn't imagine that almost an hour interview about bearings could be so interesting.
I first met Matt when he was at Bianchi and have worked with him many times on hub bearings. He knows what he's doing and just as importantly is a straight shooter. There's no hype.
@@martinmartin400 well, some videos, you spend time watching them and learn nothing, I learned something watching this one. my life isn't bad at all, it pretty amazing to me. I just want a bearing that is made with quality and will last, again watching this video I learned ceramics bearing are not for me, even though I never would buy them anyway, because I'm not a pro rider. Thanks for commenting to my comment.
In my youth, I rebuilt motorcar engines and gearboxes. I was also a pro skateboarder at Morris Vulcan in Solihull. Wheel bearings for a skateboard wheel are a special breed. They are type 608 and back in the 70s, the skateboard world took the 'Loose' spec for Deep Race Ball Bearings. They were 'loose' but you couldn't tell until the grease was washed out and sewing machine oil applied. For bike bearings, where Precision Ball bearings are used, go to your local Bearing Supplier ( I was lucky in Birmingham ) and talk to them about 'Looseness' grades.
Hoo-bloody-rah ! Excellent vidio Alex thank you. For years I've had to put up with the ceramic BS, in the biking world. Not that there is anything wrong with ceramic bearings - it's a question of context. High performance, high revolving components - ceramic is relevant. But, for bicycles! A good steel bearing is the best choise for performance and length of service. NTN or SKF, Enduro are also good value.
Just what I needed to see as I’m building my bike from scratch. When my new ceramic rear hub eventually fails I’ll look for those nitrogen steel bearings.
Thank you, Alan. Deep dives like this really appeal to me. I look forward to seeing finite element analysis, non destructive testing, mass production statistical process control.. you may even be helping the youth of today make career choices.
Top job Angus 👍 Great hearing from an engineer who knows his stuff and is honest enough to give the information straight up and not try and sell something. Pass on thanks to Matt.
I tried a ceramic bearing BB and they were fantastic at first but after 500-600 km I could feel a rough spot. When I removed the bearings from the bb itself and flushed them out it almost looked like dirt at the bottom of the cleaning jar. I replaced them with good steel bearings and no more issues.
Yes, that’s the point of the video 👍 doesn’t matter the material of the balls and races (ceramic vs. steel) but how and with what they are put together.
For me the biggest news is (and I double checked it at the Shimano service website) that CUES hubs have sealed cartridge bearings now! Cups and cones are... gone!
@@feedbackzaloop Well, I have four sets of wheels with Deore XT hubs and have mixed experiences with them. Mainly because of subpar (in my opinion) protection against mud. Also I had to replace the whole rear axle when the race-ways of the (non-drive side) cone worn.
Excellent video. I use steel bearing. I believe keep your bearings clean and lubricated the same as your chains. With bearings they are not seen so out of site is out of mind, just remember them.
Thanks a lot for making this video! I'm a Chinese recreation rider which ride 200~300Km per month. Reacently I've maintained 3 wheels, changed several bearings.😄 At begining, I didn't know much about it, just randomly bought 4 NSK bearings from Taobao(the biggest online market), each one takes less than one dollar. And after I replaced them to my old Merida aluminum roadbike wheels, I realized that those bearings I bought maybe FAKE products. It feels that the interval is a little large in hands. Anyway, the wheels are rolling well, I give them to my bicycle shop friend for free. In China, the bearing industry is so big, but there are so many factories made and sell fake NSK or SKF or other big brand bearings. If you are an amateur, not in machinery industry, it's so hard to find real products online, or bearing dealers willing to sell less than 10pcs each model. So later when I maintaince my rear carbon wheel, I tried carefully to find an official NSK online shop(not certain but it looked official), each sealed Chromium Steel bearing takes about 3 dollars. It looks well, the packaging is different from previous ones. I successfully replaced 4 bearings with the help of technician, and the rear wheel works good sofar. I can feel a little bit smoother than before. But, I still cann't 100% certain about the bearings I bought second time are fake or real. At least the price I spent is not ridiculous low... The carbon wheels I'm using are not expensive，maybe this year I will buy another better pair, wish me good luck🤭
For those missing the point=>”you have to look at bearing as a whole” expensive ceramic bearings are (for cycling) good because they are put together and engineered well, not because of ball material. You can also get as good steel bearing..and they will cost almost as much (comparing same quality and design, from the same brand). Edit: that means cheep-er ceramic bearings are worse than expensive steel ones. And there are also cheeper ceramic bearings in expensive end products (cages, BB, hubs…)
Thank you, a real bearing guy! I have worked in the PT & industrial bearing industry in both MRO and new applications for 30 years, but I learned something and why some rare Enduro bearings looked like they were from WW2 😂. Incorrect lubrication and contamination is by far the biggest long term performance inhibitor. Ceramic is pointless on a bike in low speed high torque applications, just like chains, bench testing is not real world. Missed mag lev bearings. I get 5k km from a BB, just rub grease on the outside of the seal.
It’s funny how obsessed many cyclists are about saving a watt or two here and there with exorbitantly expensive “upgrades” while neglecting their body with mediocre training(too much zone 2 and not enough zone 4) and an abysmal diet.
high quality steel bearings can last a very long time with minimal servicing, and being carful not to wash the grease out with a pressure washer. I know people that go through 2 or 3 bottom brackets in season, on their cross bike, from washing them incorrectly. My 2006 cross bike, now my "C" bike still has the original BB and is still as smooth as an 18 year old Bourbon.
This was an excellent and timely video. My Sram GXP BB has over 6,000 miles on it and is need of replacement as servicing it seems impossible (can't find proper parts). I contemplated another GXP BB but also found a low cost ceramic BB. I wasn't sure if I should go for the ceramic or stick with the GXP. After this video, I have decided to stick with the GXP. Thanks Alex for putting this together!
I wouldn’t say rip off. The price of steel and ceramic bearings (of same quality!! and same brand!!, bearings alone, not the finished product) isn’t that much different….just list the catalog from Enduro ones; 10-15% price difference. You’re probably thinking of the “finished products” (like whole BBB, cages etc.) where you pay 2-3x the price just for the marketing.
Maybe for you, but for everyone else it depends on the use case and user. Bearings like Enduro's XD-15 bearings are aguably anything but a rip-off given how long they last. I'd rather pay more for a bearing that lasts a long time rather pay less for cheaper bearings that just end up in landfills.
I like what he said about most bearings are made well these days. 30 years ago you really had to buy a high end bearing to ensure good quality. For the last 3 years ive been running some Chinese eBay bearings in my mtb bottom bracket with no maintenance at all. At a cost of $1.20 per bearing. I got 10 when I bought them. When/if they go bad ill just put in two new ones and ride them for several more years.
I appreciate that he brought up the concept of diminishing returns. I’ve applied that thinking to most aspects of life including selection of bikes and components. I’ll pay enough to get well engineered components made from quality materials. But since I don’t need to make it on to a podium for my paycheck I have zero interest in minuscule marginal gains that complicate serviceability, require greater finesse, and cost more. This mindset throughout life has resulted in spending less on stuff and more on doing. The only downside to my approach is that my “but why” attitude isn’t the right social protocol among acquaintances who go all in on latest well marketed super whatevers.
Agree 100% It's why I'm riding a 13 year old road bike with rim brakes and mechanical shifting that was top-of-the-line then and the marginal gains for me in "upgrading" to a more modern bike (including the faff of e-shifting and internal cable/hose routing) are just not worth it.
Significantly, he stressed that he goes for longevity in his products, designed for people who don’t have race team of mechanics maintaining their bikes. Granting I am a retrogrouch, but this was good to hear. So much in the marketing in recent years seems geared toward professional racers, or those trying to emulate them.
yep, ceramic is fine if you get given them for free and have them replaced for free after every road race, but if you need the bearings to be fast for more than a few hundred KMs (over 10,000km in my case) you better use steel. Ceramic is only faster when they're pretty new so that's fine for pro racers or time trialists that don't use the same bike they train on.
@@albr4wouldn’t say that steel and ceramic(hybrid) are that different in price (at least from Enduro not…like 10-15%)…comparing the same bearings (engineering), same quality and same brand, just different material of the balls. In my experience, I have to service ceramic ones like 3:2 compared to the same steel ones. Only difference I noticed (don’t care about 2-3W saving and don’t service them every other week to get that)
Really interesting Alex. For me, as a general rider, it's price against wear and longevity. Looking at Enduro's site their cheapest BB is £150 that's about the same as 6 Shimano 105 BBs. Those 6 replacements should range over 10 years, about 14 months each. Would the "cheap" Enduro BB Last 10 years? And what about a Hambini at £500? It takes 10 mins to swap out a BB. It's a no brainer, I use Shimano 105 BBs!
I changed my Shimano ones every 2-3 months. Enduro steel one lasted 8years (with 1 per year service) 👍 the same as a good ceramic one (that was ~10% higher price). But I guess this is the point of the video-material of the balls doesn’t matter that much, it’s about how and with what it’s been put together (seals, grease and engineering)
@izi941 I'm sorry but if you were going through BBs every 3 to 4 months as a normal general rider something was wrong with your bike. I'm a big guy I put a lot of torque through the pedals, I ride mtb, gravel and road, I do a lot of miles in a very wet and dirty country and I've never had to change BBs every 1/4 year, even the crap PF30 lasted 6months.
@@iansingleton 1600-1700W peak (1sec) power, 800hours/year on the bike, “semi-pro” (do get payed, but not that much to live from, hence “semi”) CX and XCO racer 👍 trust me, bikes get general service (disassemble everything-every bolt) per month, if there are many muddy races-like 2024, even more often 😉 and muddy means-you can’t see the color of the (bright blue and orange) bike-muddy. But what hurts the bearings even more is the sand/dust.
@izi941 OK so that's not a normal general rider is it. Once you start going into the professional side of the any sport then obviously there's a difference. I ride about 650 hrs a year though but I use multiple bikes. The thing is, if you think it's right for you then it's right for you. That goes for pretty much everything. That's why I started my post with, for me! By the way, not all shimano BBs are equal! That's why I specifically stated the 105 BB. In my experience they're pretty bomb proof.
I have race wheels with ceramic bearings DTswiss hubs, and also steel bearings in older (40 years) race wheels with Suntour Superbe Pro hubs. The Suntour Superbe Pro hubs out perform the ceramics. (I am however limited to a 6 speed block given the age.) The hub design of the SSP hubs is second to none and they have a higher ball count than the average cartridge bearing. SSP hubs use a hybrid design cup and cone with a cartridge bearing. These were designed so to comply with JIS for Japanese Kerin racing. I also repair dental handpieces of which some use ceramic bearings and spin at speeds of around 340,000 rpm and are exposed to moisture and heat in autoclaving. in this application, the ceramics last longer than steel bearings. Specify low friction rubber seals when purchasing bearing from the bearing supplier. Not available for every application but worth enquiring about. Also, worth removing the inner seal if the bearing is enclosed such as a hub to reduce the seal drag and use a quality, fine light grease.
hey, thanks for the comment. We know track riders were often removing seals of bearings to reduce friction. We are also blown away by the 340,000 RPM tool! that is incredible!
@@gcntech On the highspeed bearings (as a slight side topic): there was a German made dental handpiece back in the late '70s early '80s that actually had air bearings, that is , the turbine spun on a cushion of air that is, no ball/race contact. this one spun at around 500,000rpm. Very low torque but the speed caused it to cut through materials as if like butter. Was a little too impractical for it to catch on. Was great to witness though.
This is a great vid Felix!!! I've learned more about bearings in the first 1/2 hour than I have ever known, thanks. Hey do some tech research per rearview optical systems please?
I'm a CeramicSpeed enjoyer and actually bought it based on the reasons mentioned in the video: I like the maintenance procedure that gives me longevity, and the customer service is great too. The "performance" of it was never the first consideration to me. I started out with C-bear but the seals somehow didn't work for me (or user error? but not sure how..), and then switched to cs. I will stress that it's a FAFF!! to keep the bearings maintained, you really need to open them up and service a lot especially with the lighter greases. Most LBSs don't like Ceramicspeed because of overall bearing quality and the service interval. If you love tinkering and squeezing out the most performance from the ecosystem (so seals or no seals, ultra light grease etc.), then I would recommend. Otherwise the tight tolerances and increased work are not worth it. Hope it helps give another perspective.
It is interesting that even the best bearing fails if the manufacturing tolerances do not fit and the bearings have to compensate for tolerances, which is not good for them. A cartridge bearing is therefore not a bad idea for the bottom bracket. The last one lasted 15000km on my commuter bike and that for 20 euros😊
It was really eye opening to learn that an ABEC 3 or 5 is better than tighter-tolerance bearings (7 or 9) for use in bicycles precisely b/c the tolerances in bike manufacturing are not good enough to be compatible with ABEC 7 or 9 bearings. Another example of why context/application/use case should always be considered rather than just choosing the more expensive alternative.
Good job Alex! Thanks for this super interesting look at the topic. I think the bottom bracket is the place I think of first when I hear the word bearing. Hub bearings definitely second.
I can’t say why I started using Enduro bearings, it was with my Orbea Orca in about 2004 or so… but I have used them exclusively since and after watching this video, I feel good about my choice…I will probably continue to use some form of Ceramic even though it may not always be a huge gain.
Would love to get Matt Harvey's opinion on coatings for the bearing races like Tungsten disulfide (WS2), etc. And how that would affect the longevity and performance of the bearings.
I recently got bearings from Boca Bearing to rebuild my hubs.(DT 240) I figured I’d try the ceramic option, being that I live and ride in Southern California and rarely ever see rain or muck. I was pretty disappointed with how short their life was before becoming rough. Went back to Enduro bearings as my original set lasted ~10,000 mi
Wow great show. I now want to read about bearings. Ceramic hybrid bearings with nitrogen hardend steal. Does that mean they put nitrogen in the steal ti replace carbon? Thanks alex really good show.
Really happy with my Maxhit BB on my Epic 8. Crank spins much smoother than the SRAM one. The SRAM one also got smoked after about 4 months of use granted the last ride on it was rather brutal. 50 miles of soggy Old Ghost Road in NZ with it’s quartz trail bed is extremely hard on any rotational bearing. BB and derailleur pulley wheels needed full rebuilds
Until we have a race the same Rockwell hardness as the ceramic ball bearing they’re pointless for the average consumer that doesn’t have a mechanic constantly replacing the bearing.
Had Ceramic bearings in my wheel hubs that were too hard for the actual racers. They very quickly ate through the steel racers and ruined my hubs. i’ve been using high-quality steel bearings ever since and haven’t seen any noticeable losses in speed and get far better life.
A few years ago I considered getting ceramic bearings for my Trek Emonda. I only rode it spring to autumn, so no salt roads, but found myself needing a new bottom bracket, (I did use muc-off, does that have salt in it?)virtually every year. So I thought I'd shell out for expensive ceramic bearings, then read that they still needed servicing every year. So what's the point, might as well have cheaper steel bearings put in every year?
Interesting subject.... From my experience as a cyclist I'd say avoid cheap.... Avoid super expensive...... Something in the middle will do nicely..... 😂
Good interview but with all bike tech issues the key is always price. Sure, it lasts longer, but it would have been nice to see a more critical breakdown of what that really means for the average consumer. Would running a cheap bearing over say 4 years that needs replacing once cost more or less than an expensive bearing that lasts? What if you factor in the service cost? Do ceramic bearings make less sense if you do your own maintenance and are better for people who rely on bike shops?
@@phenofinder9145 Sacha may be good at aero dynamics, but his workshop practice value/knowledge is very sub standard. We have a large mallet which we refer to as a hambini puller! Also, looking at his his posts, I think he is a disgusting individual. Glad I'm not alone! All the best, regards Tony Sadler South Wales UK 🏴
Generally speaking, more money, better bearing 👌 expensive steel one is better than cheep ceramic and vice versa…up to a point where you pay for marketing. I’m comparing the bearings from the same brands (like Enduro), and not the finished products (like CeramicSpeed and similar)
John Neugent sent me a replacement set of Enduro metal bearings because I had purchased ceramics with my Neuvation and he stated that he was not convinced of their durability.
I feel fortunate having a bike with perfect press fit tolerances (carbon frame with bonded in aluminium cups). Preventatively, I changed whatever was inside to 2RS SKF and bonded with Loctite 648. Paid 45 Euros for a pair. On top of that, I have delrin spacers between bearings and Shimano crank. This thing is not a fidget spinner, but cannot be smoother when pedalling. 4 years in, there's been little change in feeling. It's an older rim brake bike, and I am worried that I won't get the same thing in a new frame. Press fit is really a better and simpler way to do the bottom bracket, just bike manufacturers didn't catch up with how to make things round. Any suggestions on the brands with really press fit bottom brackets?
Question. I typically use Park Grease to apply on the outer seal before putting on the cranks. It seems that Park Grease wears out quick and not a good barrier grease. Is there a better barrier grease to reduce small dirt/grit from penetrating the bearings? Does at thicker grease help? I don't ride in wet conditions much so the grease is not washing a away.
I work in the ceramic industry since 20 years ago and thinking about reliability when traveling/bikepacking, which is my main use, I will stay with steel bearings.
Excellent video, Alex. I know a fair amount about bearings and you asked the right questions. Matt was a good choice as a bearing expert - he explained everything in terms that most people can easily understand and he has a high degree of credibility as Endurance bearings are really, in my mind, the gold standard for general purpose bearings.
light oil not grease is what you want for a track race bike, and non contact seals (big gains vs full contact seals) even for road TT bike if you are willing to clean the bearings after every race.
Tanks. Please make more videos like this. Just two days ago I was reading up on roller bearings and I was wondering: There are so many different kind of rolling elements like cylindrical rollers, needle rollers, ... . Why are we using "only" balls? Maybe something else could be great? Especially since we have low rpm and high loads, in our bike applications.
Simple: ball bearings are versatile and low maintenance compared to anything else. There are loads from different directions of varying magnitude bike designers wouldn't and to some extend can't predict plus high pressure from marketing department. Each time roller bearings are introduced into cycling, they either seize near instantly or their assembly costs leg and an arm which you would like to trade anyway because you need to shed extra weight.
feedbackzaloop got most of it, but I'll add a few more things. Ball bearings are much more tolerant to loading from various directions which is what pretty much all the bearings on a bike are going to deal with. Race design matters a lot here, but ball bearings can tolerate both axial and radial loading with minimal issues. If you want to use something else like roller or needle bearing, you have to be able to very tightly control loading and loading direction. One way to do this is have multiple bearings, such as roller bearings to support the radial loads and thrust bearings to support the axial loads. That may be necessary on some machines, but on a bike that is unnecessary complexity when a simple 'duplex' ball bearing can easily handle the loading conditions you experience on a bike.
great idea on why is it always "ball" bearings - there has been usage of needle bearings in the past - we recall Stronglight using them in their headsets in the 90s. These days though, it does seem that the ball is certainly most common
Very interesting. This maybe a stupid question, But why can’t we hot wax a headset bearing once all the grease has been removed? Surly the theory remains the same as for your chain?
There are no stupid questions! But I recommend asking this question in the latest tech clinic with the hashtag #askgcntech so there’s a better chance that Alex and Ollie can respond to you.
Unfortunately, it seems even bearings as original spare parts tend to be the cheapest of the cheapest; on the one hand, I have a Campagnolo Shamal HPW Titanium bought back in 2001, and it still has got its original bearings in it, and on the other hand, I bought pre-owned Mavic Cosmic Carbon SSC front wheel in 2009, and up to now, I had to replace those ****ing bearings three (!) times, as they wore out. Another thing is a Campagnolo square taper bottom bracket I used for 12 month, before in once ended up in pouring rain, after that the bottom bracket was squeeking evrey half rotation of the pedals. I put it out, no signs of corrosion or so. On one side, there is a clipped- on ring on the shaft I might get off, but on the right side there is a kind of pressed-on ring impossible to remove, otherwise I could just put in some new bearings for about 15-20 € instead of spending over 120 € for a NOS bottom bracket. I have now ordered a Specialites TA square taper bottom bracket instead to see whether it will last longer. There it is possible to change the bearings without problems.
Thanks!
thank you for your support! What other topics should we take an in-depth look at?! Let us know 👇
@ How about a deep dive on carbon-aluminum bonding? How do the adhesives work? Galvanic corrosion? I just had a carbon crank arm debond itself from the aluminum axle mount.
@ You guys should do a chat with Data Science Cyclist on this Everesting video from a few years back. He went really deep on muscle recruitment at different grades, and measured neuromuscular activation of different muscle groups.
@@r0man413 Sounds like a great topic for a video, thanks for the suggestion!
Love this ❤❤❤
Bearing test engineer from a big bearing company here. I approve of this message. He knows his stuff. I'm glad he pointed out the marketing bs of ceramics and pulley wheels. I didn't hear anything that was murky or intellectually dishonest.
While a reasonably balanced interview. The annual production of enduro bearings would be a rounding error for SKF, NTN or similar. (I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big OEMs actually make enduro bearings under contract.)
Would be really good to hear from one of the industrial leaders about their speciality offerings for aerospace, Space and high speed (+100,000RPM) applications and how that tech can be applied to more mundane applications.
@@manitoublack
While I agree that yes, those companies you list are hundreds of times bigger than Enduro, many of offerings that go into aerospace or EVs are not super relevant. You have bearings like a 61806 (standard bb30 bearing) that's rated depending on grease or oil, cage and seal, shield or bare configuration can go well over 20,000 rpm assuming all the mating parts meet tolerances for fits, balance, etc. In a bottom bracket, you have way looser or poor tolerances and a running speed of 90 rpm with occasional bursts of 150-180.
Sure you can throw say a super precision bearing in wheels or you bb, but if you're pairing something that has measured and verified 1-2 micron tolerances into a hole that's not even round, despite spending upwards of 10-50x the cost, you're not getting any benefit. For our companies aerospace offerings, depending on the location of the bearing (say in a jet engine) each single roller blank itself is the cost a nice bike bearing, then are made/ground to super tight tolerances almost by hand, then everything is verified/measured and serialized and the net cost is a single roller that's way more than you're most expensive bike bearing and you may have 100+ of these rollers in a single bearing. The net result is a bearing that may be $10s of thousands of dollars where a comparable industrial one may be $500. When a single failure could result in the loss of lives and potentially a 100+ million dollar airplane the aerospace industry is more than willing to pay for this level of detail. The bike industry is not.
I mean, if you buy real one ceramic bearing like they use in todays satellites it's an advantage, but nothinng is protecting us from greedy companies with false advertisement. Tech is there.
Really rare to hear someone from an industry who doesn’t seem interested in selling you anything. Super informative and an enjoyable way to spend an hour.
Well at last a proper educational video about this ceramic bearing myth!!!
I am a mechanical engineer from austria so my english naming might be wrong on some things:
We use full and hybrid ceramic bearings in some applications. That is because we have revolutions into the 10 and/or 100 THOUSANDS. Here we are talking of forces in the grams (less than 0,1N) or torques below 0,1Newton metres we can save..... We have to spin up things within tenths of seconds. Thats where we use ceramic bearings. We even use bearings with ceramic races in some cases, mostly when they have to deal with extremly agressive fuids contaminatig the races or we dont want metal getting into (medical) fluids....... in our cases ceramic sometimes is a MUST. At high speeds they have an advantage...
In biking we are talking about much lower speeds:
Headsets: a few degrees per minute
Bottom Bracket: 60-80 up to 120/140 Revolutions per minute
Pedals: see above.....
Wheels: maybe 600 Revolutions /min at 72kph at 100 cadence 11/55 speed in the flat , 1000 at 120kph....
Even the Derailleur Pulley wheels everybody thinks are going so "fast" are just as fast as the rear wheel at maximum.
I only do about 24000km/year on the bikeS i own. Having a good set of normal bearings is more than enough. As you said a bad seal or the wrong grease or bad maintenance will totally crap the tenths of Watts you (might) save on a ceramic bearing. When I restarted cycling a few years ago I bought a "expensive" BB because everyone said how "crap" BB86 "normally" were. I have reverted to Shimano DA SM-BB92-41B after the "good" BB started to fail after a year. The cheap Shimano thing just works (AND it is lighter ;-).
Again a GREAT video about this topic!!!!! Dont waste your money on ceramic gadgets. Waste it on the N+1 game 🙂
Thanks for the great comment and joining in the conversation!
hear, hear! Even the Austrians get it😁
Even speed argument aside and working around contact pressures alone, the rest of bike industry simply doesn't have machining practices providing shape, positioning and stiffness tolerances adequate for ceramic bearings.
Outside work environment kugellager-express and bike24 are my go-to sourses of bearings and seals.
Ceramic bearings are much harder and, properly made, the balls are rounder. They roll with less friction. But it isn't very much. So, while this might be of some use for a pro riding for hours on end at or near, maximum output might make a marginal gain the 150 watt sports rider won't realize any significant gains.
I'm not an engineer, to me it's just common sense. But there's always someone who will buy into the bollocks! 😂 Your English is perfect!👍 Please excuse mine!👍
I think you didn’t get the point of the video (or didn’t watch until the end)=>you need to look the bearing as a whole, not just ball material.
Ceramic bearing are usually better (but not always-there are also bad ones) not because of the material of the balls, but more because of engineering, seals and grease.
I had to change my OEM BB bearings every 2 months (CX racer from AT, so a lot of mud). After changing to ceramic (Enduro didn’t have good steel ones in size needed), I just service them every 6 months and they last 3-4years. Not because they are ceramic, but simply because they are made better. Yes you can get as good steel ones, but they are also almost the price of ceramic(hybrid).
Much more of an interesting conversation than I was expecting. Thank you for producing that one, Alex. Great interview as Matt is very knowledgeable, honest and pragmatic about his products.
This guy knows his balls. Awesome knowledge
Doesn't just know his balls, he knows YOUR balls too
We need more content like this on GCN Tech. This is top tier video, true expert, all the bits and bolts (or balls in this case). Congrats!
thanks! What other topics would you like us to look into?
@@gcntech It's really hard to say, you probably know best what could be popular. There are so many technical topics that are hard to find, like interviews with carbon experts about differences between carbon layups + resin and their effect on bike stiffness/performance/weight/strength. Maybe a wheel design, with how the hub affect spoke tension and what are the benefits (and drawbacks) or different spoke layout and hub widths. I guess there are so many experts in a bike industry that i don't even know about, it's hard to propose sth. I wouldn't imagine that almost an hour interview about bearings could be so interesting.
I first met Matt when he was at Bianchi and have worked with him many times on hub bearings. He knows what he's doing and just as importantly is a straight shooter. There's no hype.
We still dream of getting a look at the Bianchi that Johan Museeuw used!
What a balanced show. Matt was great and explained bearings that even I could understand. Thank you
he is a good teacher!
I didn't think I would be interested in a 50 minute video about bearings but here we are and the video is over. Very fascinating and informative!
hi, thanks for the comment! So glad that you found it useful!
Good job by Alex here. His knowledge allows him to ask the right questions and understand the answers.
This was a fascinating talk from an eloquent and technically professional speaker.
best 50 minutes I've spent in a long time
You live a bad life....how was this video well spent time? You are not pogacar so why use ceramics??
@@martinmartin400 well, some videos, you spend time watching them and learn nothing, I learned something watching this one. my life isn't bad at all, it pretty amazing to me. I just want a bearing that is made with quality and will last, again watching this video I learned ceramics bearing are not for me, even though I never would buy them anyway, because I'm not a pro rider. Thanks for commenting to my comment.
In my youth, I rebuilt motorcar engines and gearboxes.
I was also a pro skateboarder at Morris Vulcan in Solihull.
Wheel bearings for a skateboard wheel are a special breed. They are type 608 and back in the 70s, the skateboard world took the 'Loose' spec for Deep Race Ball Bearings.
They were 'loose' but you couldn't tell until the grease was washed out and sewing machine oil applied.
For bike bearings, where Precision Ball bearings are used, go to your local Bearing Supplier ( I was lucky in Birmingham ) and talk to them about 'Looseness' grades.
What a great guest... would love to see more of Matt.
This sessions sets the bar on how to get the facts that matter out.
glad you liked it Philip!
free spinning bearings in cranks and pulley wheels is a classic parlor trick.
Hoo-bloody-rah ! Excellent vidio Alex thank you.
For years I've had to put up with the ceramic BS, in the biking world. Not that there is anything wrong with ceramic bearings - it's a question of context. High performance, high revolving components - ceramic is relevant. But, for bicycles! A good steel bearing is the best choise for performance and length of service. NTN or SKF, Enduro are also good value.
Just what I needed to see as I’m building my bike from scratch. When my new ceramic rear hub eventually fails I’ll look for those nitrogen steel bearings.
Thank you, Alan. Deep dives like this really appeal to me. I look forward to seeing finite element analysis, non destructive testing, mass production statistical process control.. you may even be helping the youth of today make career choices.
One of the most interesting, informative, and necessary chats ever on the channel. Well done!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for the deep dive 🙏
Thank you for the very interesting video! A true expert's explanation of complex topics is priceless. Chers!
Top job Angus 👍 Great hearing from an engineer who knows his stuff and is honest enough to give the information straight up and not try and sell something. Pass on thanks to Matt.
Thank you for arranging this as it was interesting
Glad you enjoyed it!
Loved this video! Yes, it's a cycling nerd thing, but it really gave great insight and understanding about bearings. Kudos!
Glad you enjoyed it! What other topics would you like us to talk about?!
Thankyou for speaking with an expert! So nice to hear all those myths dispelled.
Like the sound of lifetime bearings; especially with integrated cabling becoming so prevelant!
For me probably the most useful interview on GCN so far. Highly useful stuff that puts many things into their right place.
I tried a ceramic bearing BB and they were fantastic at first but after 500-600 km I could feel a rough spot. When I removed the bearings from the bb itself and flushed them out it almost looked like dirt at the bottom of the cleaning jar. I replaced them with good steel bearings and no more issues.
Thanks for sharing
Yes, that’s the point of the video 👍 doesn’t matter the material of the balls and races (ceramic vs. steel) but how and with what they are put together.
@ Learning here. What do you mean by how and what? Grease type, metal facing, ?. Could you add more.
Loved this vid, great interview!
Much appreciated!
What did you think of this conversation? 💬 Do you use ceramic bearings? Why or why not? Let us know in the comments!
For me the biggest news is (and I double checked it at the Shimano service website) that CUES hubs have sealed cartridge bearings now!
Cups and cones are... gone!
Considering we can sense surface unevenness at about 15nm by our fingers we shouldn’t be surprised we can’t measure what we can feel
Enduro XD-15 on a Hambini BB30. WHAT?
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski cup-n-cones are still a thing in top-tier hubs. Where they rightfully belong
@@feedbackzaloop Well, I have four sets of wheels with Deore XT hubs and have mixed experiences with them. Mainly because of subpar (in my opinion) protection against mud.
Also I had to replace the whole rear axle when the race-ways of the (non-drive side) cone worn.
Excellent video. I use steel bearing. I believe keep your bearings clean and lubricated the same as your chains. With bearings they are not seen so out of site is out of mind, just remember them.
Well done, Alex and Matt. I learned something today.
Cheers
Thanks for the video. It is very informative and interesting.
Glad you liked it! What other in-depth topics would you like us to look into?!
Thanks a lot for making this video! I'm a Chinese recreation rider which ride 200~300Km per month. Reacently I've maintained 3 wheels, changed several bearings.😄 At begining, I didn't know much about it, just randomly bought 4 NSK bearings from Taobao(the biggest online market), each one takes less than one dollar. And after I replaced them to my old Merida aluminum roadbike wheels, I realized that those bearings I bought maybe FAKE products. It feels that the interval is a little large in hands. Anyway, the wheels are rolling well, I give them to my bicycle shop friend for free.
In China, the bearing industry is so big, but there are so many factories made and sell fake NSK or SKF or other big brand bearings. If you are an amateur, not in machinery industry, it's so hard to find real products online, or bearing dealers willing to sell less than 10pcs each model.
So later when I maintaince my rear carbon wheel, I tried carefully to find an official NSK online shop(not certain but it looked official), each sealed Chromium Steel bearing takes about 3 dollars. It looks well, the packaging is different from previous ones. I successfully replaced 4 bearings with the help of technician, and the rear wheel works good sofar. I can feel a little bit smoother than before.
But, I still cann't 100% certain about the bearings I bought second time are fake or real. At least the price I spent is not ridiculous low... The carbon wheels I'm using are not expensive，maybe this year I will buy another better pair, wish me good luck🤭
For those missing the point=>”you have to look at bearing as a whole”
expensive ceramic bearings are (for cycling) good because they are put together and engineered well, not because of ball material. You can also get as good steel bearing..and they will cost almost as much (comparing same quality and design, from the same brand).
Edit: that means cheep-er ceramic bearings are worse than expensive steel ones. And there are also cheeper ceramic bearings in expensive end products (cages, BB, hubs…)
I work in heat treating. This was an awesome conversation!
We love that you enjoyed it!
Incredible good video, lots of information 👍👏🏻
Thank you, a real bearing guy! I have worked in the PT & industrial bearing industry in both MRO and new applications for 30 years, but I learned something and why some rare Enduro bearings looked like they were from WW2 😂.
Incorrect lubrication and contamination is by far the biggest long term performance inhibitor. Ceramic is pointless on a bike in low speed high torque applications, just like chains, bench testing is not real world. Missed mag lev bearings. I get 5k km from a BB, just rub grease on the outside of the seal.
Only 5K from BB bearing??? How come so little? My BB bearings are over 20K old and still going!
Replaced my bottom bracket with a ceramic one and felt no difference in riding, but have not had to replace them in the 5 years since which is great.
I want to upgrade my suitcase wheels to ceramic bearings. How much will this run me and what can I expect in performance gains?
Excellent way to make a point! 😂😂
if you don't miss your flight because of the upgrade, we think it is money well spent!
Loved this content!
Thanks!
Excellent video guys!
Thanks so much!
It’s funny how obsessed many cyclists are about saving a watt or two here and there with exorbitantly expensive “upgrades” while neglecting their body with mediocre training(too much zone 2 and not enough zone 4) and an abysmal diet.
high quality steel bearings can last a very long time with minimal servicing, and being carful not to wash the grease out with a pressure washer. I know people that go through 2 or 3 bottom brackets in season, on their cross bike, from washing them incorrectly. My 2006 cross bike, now my "C" bike still has the original BB and is still as smooth as an 18 year old Bourbon.
we know what you mean, we've seen people go crazy with a pressure washer, gently does it!
This was an excellent and timely video. My Sram GXP BB has over 6,000 miles on it and is need of replacement as servicing it seems impossible (can't find proper parts). I contemplated another GXP BB but also found a low cost ceramic BB. I wasn't sure if I should go for the ceramic or stick with the GXP. After this video, I have decided to stick with the GXP. Thanks Alex for putting this together!
This was a fascinating video. I love learning about how stuff works and I feel like I’m a more informed cyclist, thanks!
Great to hear! Any other topics you would like us to get under the skin of?
Yes! This is good format
Ceramic bearings belong to the category: If you have to buy it, you don't need it. Like Dura Ace.
are they better - not really
are they a rip off - yes
I wouldn’t say rip off. The price of steel and ceramic bearings (of same quality!! and same brand!!, bearings alone, not the finished product) isn’t that much different….just list the catalog from Enduro ones; 10-15% price difference.
You’re probably thinking of the “finished products” (like whole BBB, cages etc.) where you pay 2-3x the price just for the marketing.
Maybe for you, but for everyone else it depends on the use case and user. Bearings like Enduro's XD-15 bearings are aguably anything but a rip-off given how long they last. I'd rather pay more for a bearing that lasts a long time rather pay less for cheaper bearings that just end up in landfills.
I like what he said about most bearings are made well these days. 30 years ago you really had to buy a high end bearing to ensure good quality. For the last 3 years ive been running some Chinese eBay bearings in my mtb bottom bracket with no maintenance at all. At a cost of $1.20 per bearing. I got 10 when I bought them. When/if they go bad ill just put in two new ones and ride them for several more years.
I appreciate that he brought up the concept of diminishing returns. I’ve applied that thinking to most aspects of life including selection of bikes and components. I’ll pay enough to get well engineered components made from quality materials. But since I don’t need to make it on to a podium for my paycheck I have zero interest in minuscule marginal gains that complicate serviceability, require greater finesse, and cost more. This mindset throughout life has resulted in spending less on stuff and more on doing. The only downside to my approach is that my “but why” attitude isn’t the right social protocol among acquaintances who go all in on latest well marketed super whatevers.
Agree 100% It's why I'm riding a 13 year old road bike with rim brakes and mechanical shifting that was top-of-the-line then and the marginal gains for me in "upgrading" to a more modern bike (including the faff of e-shifting and internal cable/hose routing) are just not worth it.
Great interview.
Significantly, he stressed that he goes for longevity in his products, designed for people who don’t have race team of mechanics maintaining their bikes. Granting I am a retrogrouch, but this was good to hear. So much in the marketing in recent years seems geared toward professional racers, or those trying to emulate them.
yep, ceramic is fine if you get given them for free and have them replaced for free after every road race, but if you need the bearings to be fast for more than a few hundred KMs (over 10,000km in my case) you better use steel. Ceramic is only faster when they're pretty new so that's fine for pro racers or time trialists that don't use the same bike they train on.
@@albr4wouldn’t say that steel and ceramic(hybrid) are that different in price (at least from Enduro not…like 10-15%)…comparing the same bearings (engineering), same quality and same brand, just different material of the balls.
In my experience, I have to service ceramic ones like 3:2 compared to the same steel ones. Only difference I noticed (don’t care about 2-3W saving and don’t service them every other week to get that)
Really interesting Alex. For me, as a general rider, it's price against wear and longevity. Looking at Enduro's site their cheapest BB is £150 that's about the same as 6 Shimano 105 BBs. Those 6 replacements should range over 10 years, about 14 months each. Would the "cheap" Enduro BB Last 10 years? And what about a Hambini at £500? It takes 10 mins to swap out a BB. It's a no brainer, I use Shimano 105 BBs!
I changed my Shimano ones every 2-3 months. Enduro steel one lasted 8years (with 1 per year service) 👍 the same as a good ceramic one (that was ~10% higher price). But I guess this is the point of the video-material of the balls doesn’t matter that much, it’s about how and with what it’s been put together (seals, grease and engineering)
@izi941 I'm sorry but if you were going through BBs every 3 to 4 months as a normal general rider something was wrong with your bike. I'm a big guy I put a lot of torque through the pedals, I ride mtb, gravel and road, I do a lot of miles in a very wet and dirty country and I've never had to change BBs every 1/4 year, even the crap PF30 lasted 6months.
@@iansingleton 1600-1700W peak (1sec) power, 800hours/year on the bike, “semi-pro” (do get payed, but not that much to live from, hence “semi”) CX and XCO racer 👍 trust me, bikes get general service (disassemble everything-every bolt) per month, if there are many muddy races-like 2024, even more often 😉 and muddy means-you can’t see the color of the (bright blue and orange) bike-muddy. But what hurts the bearings even more is the sand/dust.
@izi941 OK so that's not a normal general rider is it. Once you start going into the professional side of the any sport then obviously there's a difference. I ride about 650 hrs a year though but I use multiple bikes. The thing is, if you think it's right for you then it's right for you. That goes for pretty much everything. That's why I started my post with, for me! By the way, not all shimano BBs are equal! That's why I specifically stated the 105 BB. In my experience they're pretty bomb proof.
Worth the watch!!
I have race wheels with ceramic bearings DTswiss hubs, and also steel bearings in older (40 years) race wheels with Suntour Superbe Pro hubs. The Suntour Superbe Pro hubs out perform the ceramics. (I am however limited to a 6 speed block given the age.) The hub design of the SSP hubs is second to none and they have a higher ball count than the average cartridge bearing. SSP hubs use a hybrid design cup and cone with a cartridge bearing. These were designed so to comply with JIS for Japanese Kerin racing. I also repair dental handpieces of which some use ceramic bearings and spin at speeds of around 340,000 rpm and are exposed to moisture and heat in autoclaving. in this application, the ceramics last longer than steel bearings. Specify low friction rubber seals when purchasing bearing from the bearing supplier. Not available for every application but worth enquiring about. Also, worth removing the inner seal if the bearing is enclosed such as a hub to reduce the seal drag and use a quality, fine light grease.
hey, thanks for the comment. We know track riders were often removing seals of bearings to reduce friction. We are also blown away by the 340,000 RPM tool! that is incredible!
@@gcntech On the highspeed bearings (as a slight side topic): there was a German made dental handpiece back in the late '70s early '80s that actually had air bearings, that is , the turbine spun on a cushion of air that is, no ball/race contact. this one spun at around 500,000rpm. Very low torque but the speed caused it to cut through materials as if like butter. Was a little too impractical for it to catch on. Was great to witness though.
This is a great vid Felix!!! I've learned more about bearings in the first 1/2 hour than I have ever known, thanks. Hey do some tech research per rearview optical systems please?
I'm a CeramicSpeed enjoyer and actually bought it based on the reasons mentioned in the video: I like the maintenance procedure that gives me longevity, and the customer service is great too. The "performance" of it was never the first consideration to me. I started out with C-bear but the seals somehow didn't work for me (or user error? but not sure how..), and then switched to cs. I will stress that it's a FAFF!! to keep the bearings maintained, you really need to open them up and service a lot especially with the lighter greases. Most LBSs don't like Ceramicspeed because of overall bearing quality and the service interval. If you love tinkering and squeezing out the most performance from the ecosystem (so seals or no seals, ultra light grease etc.), then I would recommend. Otherwise the tight tolerances and increased work are not worth it. Hope it helps give another perspective.
It is interesting that even the best bearing fails if the manufacturing tolerances do not fit and the bearings have to compensate for tolerances, which is not good for them.
A cartridge bearing is therefore not a bad idea for the bottom bracket.
The last one lasted 15000km on my commuter bike and that for 20 euros😊
It was really eye opening to learn that an ABEC 3 or 5 is better than tighter-tolerance bearings (7 or 9) for use in bicycles precisely b/c the tolerances in bike manufacturing are not good enough to be compatible with ABEC 7 or 9 bearings. Another example of why context/application/use case should always be considered rather than just choosing the more expensive alternative.
Good job Alex! Thanks for this super interesting look at the topic. I think the bottom bracket is the place I think of first when I hear the word bearing. Hub bearings definitely second.
We're so glad that you found it interesting!
I can’t say why I started using Enduro bearings, it was with my Orbea Orca in about 2004 or so… but I have used them exclusively since and after watching this video, I feel good about my choice…I will probably continue to use some form of Ceramic even though it may not always be a huge gain.
I really liked this nerdy deep dive
Would love to get Matt Harvey's opinion on coatings for the bearing races like Tungsten disulfide (WS2), etc. And how that would affect the longevity and performance of the bearings.
I recently got bearings from Boca Bearing to rebuild my hubs.(DT 240) I figured I’d try the ceramic option, being that I live and ride in Southern California and rarely ever see rain or muck. I was pretty disappointed with how short their life was before becoming rough. Went back to Enduro bearings as my original set lasted ~10,000 mi
Wow great show. I now want to read about bearings. Ceramic hybrid bearings with nitrogen hardend steal. Does that mean they put nitrogen in the steal ti replace carbon? Thanks alex really good show.
I'm an engineer and always knew ceramic bearings don't have their purpose on bikes. They are useful, elsewhere.
Really happy with my Maxhit BB on my Epic 8. Crank spins much smoother than the SRAM one. The SRAM one also got smoked after about 4 months of use granted the last ride on it was rather brutal. 50 miles of soggy Old Ghost Road in NZ with it’s quartz trail bed is extremely hard on any rotational bearing. BB and derailleur pulley wheels needed full rebuilds
Until we have a race the same Rockwell hardness as the ceramic ball bearing they’re pointless for the average consumer that doesn’t have a mechanic constantly replacing the bearing.
I like this guy! Build to last.
How do I identify quality, bearings, grease ? This was helpful, but I'm not sure how to use it.
Had Ceramic bearings in my wheel hubs that were too hard for the actual racers. They very quickly ate through the steel racers and ruined my hubs. i’ve been using high-quality steel bearings ever since and haven’t seen any noticeable losses in speed and get far better life.
A few years ago I considered getting ceramic bearings for my Trek Emonda. I only rode it spring to autumn, so no salt roads, but found myself needing a new bottom bracket, (I did use muc-off, does that have salt in it?)virtually every year. So I thought I'd shell out for expensive ceramic bearings, then read that they still needed servicing every year. So what's the point, might as well have cheaper steel bearings put in every year?
Interesting subject....
From my experience as a cyclist I'd say avoid cheap....
Avoid super expensive......
Something in the middle will do nicely.....
😂
Good interview but with all bike tech issues the key is always price. Sure, it lasts longer, but it would have been nice to see a more critical breakdown of what that really means for the average consumer. Would running a cheap bearing over say 4 years that needs replacing once cost more or less than an expensive bearing that lasts? What if you factor in the service cost? Do ceramic bearings make less sense if you do your own maintenance and are better for people who rely on bike shops?
Waiting for hambini...
and Peak Torque 👍
Hopefully not
Why?
WTF......lol!!!!!!! There are still hambini fans ?????? 😂😂😂😂
@@phenofinder9145 Sacha may be good at aero dynamics, but his workshop practice value/knowledge is very sub standard. We have a large mallet which we refer to as a hambini puller! Also, looking at his his posts, I think he is a disgusting individual. Glad I'm not alone!
All the best, regards Tony Sadler South Wales UK 🏴
Great explanation of bearings. I am going to upgrade wheels and tires soon and I wanted to know what is best.
Generally speaking, more money, better bearing 👌 expensive steel one is better than cheep ceramic and vice versa…up to a point where you pay for marketing. I’m comparing the bearings from the same brands (like Enduro), and not the finished products (like CeramicSpeed and similar)
Great guest and super interesting
glad you enjoyed it!
John Neugent sent me a replacement set of Enduro metal bearings because I had purchased ceramics with my Neuvation and he stated that he was not convinced of their durability.
Fascinating. I prefer longer vids
What's the best material for low friction seals?
I feel fortunate having a bike with perfect press fit tolerances (carbon frame with bonded in aluminium cups). Preventatively, I changed whatever was inside to 2RS SKF and bonded with Loctite 648. Paid 45 Euros for a pair. On top of that, I have delrin spacers between bearings and Shimano crank. This thing is not a fidget spinner, but cannot be smoother when pedalling. 4 years in, there's been little change in feeling. It's an older rim brake bike, and I am worried that I won't get the same thing in a new frame. Press fit is really a better and simpler way to do the bottom bracket, just bike manufacturers didn't catch up with how to make things round. Any suggestions on the brands with really press fit bottom brackets?
I was needing a new bottom bracket yearly on my commuter. Bought an expensive chis king which is going on it’s 10th year.
Question. I typically use Park Grease to apply on the outer seal before putting on the cranks. It seems that Park Grease wears out quick and not a good barrier grease. Is there a better barrier grease to reduce small dirt/grit from penetrating the bearings? Does at thicker grease help? I don't ride in wet conditions much so the grease is not washing a away.
PM 600 Military grease
I work in the ceramic industry since 20 years ago and thinking about reliability when traveling/bikepacking, which is my main use, I will stay with steel bearings.
I run full XD15 enduro on all my bikes for the pure simplicity of them
are ceramic bearings the same as industrial diamond bearings?
Just love how excited Alex gets talking about balls… Who knew
Excellent video, Alex. I know a fair amount about bearings and you asked the right questions. Matt was a good choice as a bearing expert - he explained everything in terms that most people can easily understand and he has a high degree of credibility as Endurance bearings are really, in my mind, the gold standard for general purpose bearings.
What's the best bearing grease for all-out speed, such as for race wheels for the track?
light oil not grease is what you want for a track race bike, and non contact seals (big gains vs full contact seals) even for road TT bike if you are willing to clean the bearings after every race.
Tanks. Please make more videos like this.
Just two days ago I was reading up on roller bearings and I was wondering: There are so many different kind of rolling elements like cylindrical rollers, needle rollers, ... . Why are we using "only" balls? Maybe something else could be great? Especially since we have low rpm and high loads, in our bike applications.
Simple: ball bearings are versatile and low maintenance compared to anything else. There are loads from different directions of varying magnitude bike designers wouldn't and to some extend can't predict plus high pressure from marketing department. Each time roller bearings are introduced into cycling, they either seize near instantly or their assembly costs leg and an arm which you would like to trade anyway because you need to shed extra weight.
feedbackzaloop got most of it, but I'll add a few more things. Ball bearings are much more tolerant to loading from various directions which is what pretty much all the bearings on a bike are going to deal with. Race design matters a lot here, but ball bearings can tolerate both axial and radial loading with minimal issues.
If you want to use something else like roller or needle bearing, you have to be able to very tightly control loading and loading direction. One way to do this is have multiple bearings, such as roller bearings to support the radial loads and thrust bearings to support the axial loads. That may be necessary on some machines, but on a bike that is unnecessary complexity when a simple 'duplex' ball bearing can easily handle the loading conditions you experience on a bike.
@@ChrisMcChesney-p1d that's what I meant by versatility, thank you for expanding upon the concept with more definite considerations 👍
great idea on why is it always "ball" bearings - there has been usage of needle bearings in the past - we recall Stronglight using them in their headsets in the 90s. These days though, it does seem that the ball is certainly most common
@@gcntech Needle bearing are also used in Cannondale Lefty forks which I think are lighter in weight and stiffer than conventional suspension forks
I tried some ceramic bearings in my hubs, back on standard SKF now, i feel for pro riding it'll be different, but for daily use they're not that great
what if i hot wax my bearings? 😜
seriously tho, good video!
I'm wondering exactly the same as well with wax in cable housings
Very interesting. This maybe a stupid question, But why can’t we hot wax a headset bearing once all the grease has been removed? Surly the theory remains the same as for your chain?
There are no stupid questions! But I recommend asking this question in the latest tech clinic with the hashtag #askgcntech so there’s a better chance that Alex and Ollie can respond to you.
Have DT swiss 180 hubs with ceramic bearings. In the 4years that I ride them I did not have to service them.
Unfortunately, it seems even bearings as original spare parts tend to be the cheapest of the cheapest; on the one hand, I have a Campagnolo Shamal HPW Titanium bought back in 2001, and it still has got its original bearings in it, and on the other hand, I bought pre-owned Mavic Cosmic Carbon SSC front wheel in 2009, and up to now, I had to replace those ****ing bearings three (!) times, as they wore out. Another thing is a Campagnolo square taper bottom bracket I used for 12 month, before in once ended up in pouring rain, after that the bottom bracket was squeeking evrey half rotation of the pedals. I put it out, no signs of corrosion or so. On one side, there is a clipped- on ring on the shaft I might get off, but on the right side there is a kind of pressed-on ring impossible to remove, otherwise I could just put in some new bearings for about 15-20 € instead of spending over 120 € for a NOS bottom bracket. I have now ordered a Specialites TA square taper bottom bracket instead to see whether it will last longer. There it is possible to change the bearings without problems.
Why is the orange pinarelo in the back, back to frame only?
so Alex could top up his spares of Dura-Ace to put under his workbench! 😉
Brilliant episode non of your usual BS. Thanks
This guy was excellent!