I feel so bad for those girls. I went to India for a month when I was young, but I went with a group and two were former military men. They kept me safe from every danger but also any sense of it and we had thoroughly vetted guides. I don't know why any young girls/women would ever venture into a 3rd world country alone like that. It is so exceedingly foolish.
That's the reason,the backpack was handed in,and bones, to make everyone go away, otherwise,the parents would have stayed in Panama,and searches would have continued indefinitely,and the perps and others, did not want that scenario!!
6:20 _"This case will never close until we find something."_ Then a few weeks later the backpack turns up. But this probably intensified the search, and maybe somebody said: _"This case won't close until we find some remains."_ Then, hey, presto, some remains turn up.. The remains that were found were pretty strange, almost like what you'd expect if somebody partly exhumed the bodies and grabbed a part from each. And it does look like all their clothes were removed, except for Lisanne's shoe which they probably couldn't remove due to swelling from the broken foot. Kind of strange how they found pretty much the "same" clothes from each girl, bras, shorts, shoes, but no tops. And I don't see how shorts could get disentangled from both bodies when it looked like Lisanne's foot (and skin) had only just started to decompose..
I think they took their clothes off to take a swim possibly at the hot springs. I wonder if the foot was broken as a form of torture, after all Osman's feet were bashed up, weren't they?
Definitely a partial exhumation from a high altitude jungle grave in Lissane's case, probably an indication that leaving remains was not part of the killer's original plan. They took a leg from Lisanne corpse all the remains found of her were from her leg. One boot from each, both found by guide 'F, 2 days apart. Kris died without her bra, shorts or boots on.
@@seancidy6008 I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "definitely", but it's a possibility. We don't really even have any evidence that they didn't just get lost and succumb to the elements. It's easy to make "lost" theories, and it's also easy to make "foul play" theories, and to make either one seem reasonable, but all we know for definite is that the didn't have their bras on when they died, the rest of their clothing could have come off in the fast moving rivers in the rainy season. And just a note: The reason the guide found most of the remains and belongings is because he and his group continued searching for months after the official searchers gave up. He probably managed to get more closure for the families than any of the authorities or anyone else did.
Always coming back to the articles (especially in the Dutch paper AD) and reports that were made in the weeks and month after the dissapearance. They give us a more realistic perspective on what might have happened to the girls than the 'they got lost and/or injured' bullcrap from the end of 2014. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. But be prepared for Betzaida Pitti's upcoming book, a true Lost in the Amazon'ish wilderness hand guide. All the news from the first hour is already being cast aside on some forums as scoop making claptrap. The big preparation for a total rewriting of history perhaps :)
@@scarletr.7753 Yeah, thanks for the warning, I'm not gonna read that shitty document, although I'm curious how they're going to counter the tons of evidence that the girls could not have been lost, from the total lack of logical communication attempts (not even a text message in draft) to the missing photo 509, an iPhone 4 still operating after 10 days, the dry backpack and contents and the ultra fast decomposition of the bodies. To me it is 100 percent clear it was murder. Either by drug runners or by some local scumbags who wanted to 'party'. Even organ trafficking could be a possibility, although it seems a bit cumbersome to kill European tourists for that purpose.
@@Kanarie1973 She is already busy on one forum, trying to make journalists from all serious newspapers from the beginning look like scoop hungry paparazzi. You can have a solid story regarding foul play, those people will just find one wobbly detail and start tearing the whole tower down in an attempt to make anyone who does not follow Pitti's bullshit look like a 'conspiracy nutcase'. Yeh, we will see what old files and police reports are dug up. If they clash with the reports of the first hours and with the testimonies of people who had insight in the most important police files and investigation reports, I'll definitely highlight this. As for the hard questions (like you said; total absence of normal communication attempts/photo making/documentation as well as the intact ball of skin found 5 months later, or the extreme discrepancy of decomposition state of the remains which were found in the same vicinity + explaining how they were found near a fecking VILLAGE while nobody found any trace of these girls for at least 10 weeks of hard searching): my bet is that all the inconvenient hard questions will just be ignored. As lost believers almost always do
@@scarletr.7753 That's right: 'losters' may ignore all the signs that this wasn't an accident, but that does not work the other way around. But it's the same with covid19, every bit of criticism is being labeled as 'conspiracy'. You just have to follow the narrative. Now, in this particular case the narrative is laughable. The evidence of a crime is so overwhelming, it's very, very hard to state that this was merely an accident. The problem is, that nowadays everything is about money. If you want to seriously publish about this case (read = making money with a book) you have to get approvement of the parents and that means you follow the narrative. It's sickening.
@@Kanarie1973 Some of those people are almost using psychological warfare tactics, ok that's an exaggeration, but they absolutely measure with 2 sticks. They can nitpick from the known facts whatever they like to hammer on about and ignore the inconvenient forensic findings that do not match with their theory. But when you challenge them on it, they turn the table instantly and start requesting that YOU first explain why a killer would allow his victim to keep handling their phones. Now someone messaged me about an interesting German case where exactly that happened (Frauke Liebs). But yeh, it's like debating with kids at times. I have given up for the most part tbh. You can sense them a mile away at some point, always the same attacking rhetoric and the same repeated talking points. Never a nuanced view. Bleh, next. Yes that whole black and white thinking has seeped into many parts of life. Same with politics also. You are either the devil for voting for the wrong party/person or you are one of us. No normal debate is possible anymore without someone shrieking in utter horror about some offensive word you may have used, a word that often was suddenly declared offensive that same week. Think differently? -> you are a conspiracy nutcase. It's like being in kindergarden all over again. Yes they have a lot of problematic forensic facts to wrestle with, the Lost believers and thus they resort to name calling, ridicule and selected memory to push the Accident scenario. I even read some reddit users trying to discredit a police chef like Dick Steffens lately. As if this man with an enormous state of service would purposely feed into a crime theory, so that he has some more work opportunities himself with his detective agency. Utterly disgusting. They are trying to set Adelita Coriat and other journalists of the 1st hour away as rambling potheads as well, out there only for the scoop and parroting the mainstream media narrative. It is just another attempt to push their own importance, by trying to trample other people down. It's getting ugly by now
Very interesting and informative video Scarlet, great job. This video says everything,that region is NOT a safe place. Although the suspects directly involved with the missing women have been silenced by murder, im very happy to see forigners living there and are still investigating... maybe one day we can find the truth. I guess the parents gave up after realizing what a corrupt and dangerous place that is and decided to retreat and wait for further investigation.
@@theonlyway4366 The guide 'F'. probably with his son(s) at his ranch. Him finding their clothes and remains relatively near his ranch is conclusive. Kris was the target she was held prisoner for a week. The people in Alto Romero (closest village to F's ranch and extremely close to where the backpack was found know, and so do those in Boquete. F' has a local reputation for 'me-too behavior and is blacklisted by many businesses in Boquete.
@@seancidy6008 sounds very clever! No doubt he is involved. I'm around Boquete today and I just went wandering around the entrance of El Sendero el Pianista by myself... I felt that I was being watched by some people from the restaurant... they kind of feel responsible for whatever happens inside
@@theonlyway4366 Some one from that restaurant (likely one of the owners' children) gave amazingly, deliberately, inaccurate accounts of Kris and Lisanne starting their hike an hour or two before nightfall. Another small business owner at the trailhead swore he saw them return and go back into Boquete. They wanted to divert bad publicity, by giving false testimony suggesting Kris and Lisanne were foolhardy, or by saying they returned (and went to some wild party). Punishing the brazen killer was the last thing on any Panamanians' mind. They simply do not care about what happened to a couple of gentle and naïve Dutch girls who were horribly murdered.
Those locals ''guides'' with those clothes and no trekking gear or machetes, could have only have searched the paths and few meters from the paths, and what ever humanly used land was on the paths.
Ty for sharing this video, I joined the Reddit community kremersfroon just recently, which I won't recommend at all, mostly because its filled with arrogant losters, who mock you when you try to explain how this case indeed involves "foul play" I shared your blog in the community and Juan's library, only to end up getting dissed by the losters some of them said that your blog is unreliable and that it's not well researched, what idiots, goes to show how blind losters really are and indeed live in a cave, also most losters were actually defending guide F, I swear I lost some brain cells reading their perspective, despite the fact that some women shared her review of guide F being a creep guess what some loster had to say, that she was lying to make this look like "foul play" reddit losters are annoying af...
Hi, yeh I am aware of the reddit problem too. A real shame, as it is one of the few active internet forum dedicated to this disappearance case that are left. But it has been hijacked by a little group of very aggressive cynical Lost believers. Terrible atmosphere on there. I followed it in the past and there used to be a more balanced group of ppl posting back then. They have my blog in their clipped case info list for a reason I suppose. before Juan and I started gathering all this case info and translating it from Dutch into English, barely anyone still discussed this case, much less in the English language. I dare to say that every redditer has read our work and gets their case basics from us, for a good part. I add source links to literally everything, which was a monster job, but you have to remember that these few redditors that are left and very vocal right now, have their own agenda. I am openly suspecting Foul Play and so does Juan, so of course they will try to spit on us. Most ppl on reddit have done nothing at all for this case, so they can hiss and bitch all they like. It just shows how a great place for discussion has turned into a cesspit, without proper moderating. But everyone can think whatever they want. I did my best and spent a good chunk of time to bring this case to a bigger audience and translating and gathering information. That's that, people can think about it whatever they want. That sort of toxic Groupthink isn't my cup of tea, but some people crave for a little group to belong to, and unfortunately they use that reddit place for it
@@scarletr.7753 Well said and exactly, I literally looked everywhere about this case only to find so much misinformation and lack of research, until I found your blog and was amazed how much authentic research you had on this compared to others, also Jaun's research especially on the picture manipulation was magnificent, heck one of the pictures where Lissane is standing on the summit smiling with supposed wet hair is blatant photoshopping, her right arm proves it, since it had a different colored background in the middle, I'm not a photoshop expert and even I can see through the pictures..so far I wish the parents released atleast some of the pictures, but then again maybe they know what happened and don't want to reopen old wounds..and we'll never know what exactly those criminals did to them. 😔
@@RetroHorrorFan Thanks Retrogeek. There will always be criticism and that is fine, but reddit has become a bit of Clown World unfortunately. Glad you enjoyed my and Juan's work on this case. I also wished the parents had published all the photos in their original dimensions, as well as the full case/police files, as many eyes see more than just a couple of eyes. But alas. It is not clear either why the Kremers eventually had enough of pushing this case and challenging the authorities. Some people think a deal was struck perhaps, and they know more than us, in exchange for backing off. But this is just a theory and not verified, it may not be true.
Ok so here in Orlando Fl USA WHEN there's a a problem to get the residents to Cooperate with the police ,Detectives issue a CRIME TIPS HOTLINE # , Where residents can anonymous call Crime TIPS , the person is then given a secret id# which they can then claim the REWARD $$$$ . This is a perfect way to get the public to turn in these animals and not be afraid of any retribution plus they are getting paid. It has worked amazingly here in Orlando Florida and residents are calling this Crime line Tips hotline. Perhaps you can call the Orlando Police Dept HERE IN fLORIDA and get a hold of the Crime line Tips detective and ask them more info on how to implement this Crime line tips# in Boquete because Boquete is beautiful tourist $ driven Economy and these animals are going to F it up for you guys and the Boquetes Economy.
Over in Boquete, from what I know from message boards there and news articles, the police invited everyone who had seen something or who knew something to come forward and make the trip to the local police office him- or herself. Which did not exactly result in a lot of witness visits, because people there are said to be suspicious and wary of the police.Who can be corrupt at times. And social control is immense, people know a lot of each other and gossip about everything. So yeh, a risky business, going to the police there. Your country's system sounds way better, especially if you can entrust the police with such delicate information. Over here in the NL key witnesses have have seen their identities and info thrown on the streets at times by errors made by the State or the General prosecution. Unfortunately. Yeh, that is great info. Maybe some locals from Boquete are interested in this and willing to forward it to their local policemen and -women.
@@scarletr.7753 Yes something has to be done about this this is horrible and I have daughters and I can’t even imagine this happening but definitely you guys reach out to the Orlando Police Department detectives here in Florida in Orlando Florida and speak to them about information on how to go about activating this one like tips 800 number even if they give some type of information it will give people a custom to start to start usingThis system knowing that is anonymous good luck to you God bless happy 2021
@@johnlam7854 Panama does not have an army so their police are not police, they have one paramilitary organisation, which would not be particularly good at anything even if they were well paid, which they are not.
Thank you for share. I think Panama police need more training. i saw in other video how some guy manipulated the evidence. Where is the picture 509. the person that found the backpack should be investigate, the guide guy with the white hat has to be investigate it, search his house for some evidence just a piece of hair something. who kill the taxi driver? and fire the Mrs Piti the police shift.
I found out that something similar happened in bocas del toro with american girl. but the FBI found the killer. 17 years old guy. ihope the FBI intervene in this case too.
@@d7rledez The FBI at the time linked these two cases together and even wanted to dig into the Kris and Lisanne disappearance. But they soon after removed this info from their site and left, after solving the Catherine Johannet case :(
@@scarletr.7753 I know for sure that FBI would close this case, and found the responsible. Thanks for share. I been there in Boquete many years ago, in 70s. There is a lot off Indian that Sunday are drunk and fighting. But the people are good. They kill the taxi driver he know something. He has the same last name of the guide guy Gonzales they maybe are related.
You cannot claim a reward for a crime you are have taken an active part in yourself. Those lads were supposedly in of the abduction and probabally the murder too. Killing them would have had nothing in common with girls in the middle of nowhere who probably did not realise the lives were at stake even after the incident started (t girl has experience of fighting men)? Disguising those homicides of the men in the swining photo as accidental deaths would have been EXTREMLY difficult to do and nothing suggests the murderers of Kris and Lisannes are THAT smart or organised. After after the first one the others would know they were next and would have went to the police, or told their parents 'if anything happens to me X did it'
The gang did it somewhere but not the Pianista Trail . Feliciano was instructed to cover up and give misleading information to the parents and search teams. The night photos are 100% staged . The woman who found the backpack is an actress only. This explains why she is not given the 30K cash reward.
Hij zegt zo lang het onderdoek gefinancierd blijft dat hij zijn werk blijft doen. Kunnen we niet een crowed funding openen om hem weer aan het werk te krijgen?
Dat is lief maar dit is een oudere video, jammer genoeg. De zaak is nu gesloten en men heeft geconcludeerd dat het een ongeluk was (geen verder bewijs is geleverd voor wat voor ongeluk dan precies). Juan heeft geprobeerd om het OM de zaak opnieuw te laten heropenen, maar zij verwijzen je gewoon door naar de Panamese openbaar aanklagers
There are videos about that, look for the ones about the podcast from Jeremy Kryt. I also wrote about them in this blog post: koudekaas.blogspot.com/2021/03/feeling-that-comes-over-you-when-you.html
Sad but true... Women should be able to do lots of things, but the fact is that there are people in this world that will hurt you, given an opportunity. Women can be cautious and careful but your average guy will always outpower your average woman. We should be free to do as we want, but reality is unfortunately that you need to keep your wits and be cautious to avoid harm. Women are a target in many countries
This is not God's fault you need to study a Bible ❤ we brought through sin death evil murder sickness not God. God is perfect righteous. To blame God is psycho
@@scarletr.7753 I saw a devil in eyes of Kris. It was a so bad moment. She was not looking well to her friend. You can watch her when she was riding the bike. And Lisa was taking a video.
I was born and raised and visited Chiriqui in my vacations I never never heard of any crime. The so called tourist are bringing their bad habits this is a small town with no bad habits. I knew these foreigners are bringing their nasty habits..that sucks. 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎they are ruining my country...hate that
That is an interesting take Maria. I can tell that tourism brings some negative things to your community. Serious question; how about drug dealing and violent crimes? They are also reported among the native population? This happened among locals for instance: www.midiario.com/uhora/policiales/los-aterradores-elementos-del-salvaje-asesinato-de-la-boquetena-nuris-castrellon/
@@scarletr.7753 remember you are taking to a native not a foul. I lived there and NEVER heard of any nasty crime, drugs, or even alcohol I am sure there was a SMALL percentage but not to risk the native safety. It only takes one nasty criminal 😤 Chiriqui is beautiful 😍 and should not be over populated with strangers that will bring yes bad habits. I have never done drugs, or even smoke or alcohol that I can thank my country and my parents. They did not make a lot of money 💰 but did not showed me bad things. I feel too many people "steangers" are moving to Panama 🇵🇦 that can't handle the influx of too many people with who know what habits and I could care or less about your nasty link..👎👎👎👎👎👎
@@lmaureen1335 yeh there seem to be a lot of expats in Boquete. But luckily there are also friendly generous locals like yourself. It's a common phenomenon to blame the strangers for everything bad under the sun
@L Maureen you should know that saying that bad things "never" happen is absolute ridiculousness. If you want to sound believable at all try to not speak in extremes. Also, sounds like you really don't like "strangers" for some reason, well maybe don't leave your home country because "strangers" go missing in all countries. Your parents didn't raise you to be welcoming or humane so no one cares if you drink or do drugs, that's not what makes you a good person, empathy, compassion, open mindedness, that's what you need. Shame on you
Those locals ''guides'' with those clothes and no trekking gear or machetes, could have only have searched the paths and few meters from the paths, and what ever humanly used land was on the paths.
Yes and that shows they knew Lisanne and Kris with bare legs and arms would not, could not, have gone into anything resembling jungle. They were most likely led away through the cow pasture.
I feel so bad for those girls. I went to India for a month when I was young, but I went with a group and two were former military men. They kept me safe from every danger but also any sense of it and we had thoroughly vetted guides. I don't know why any young girls/women would ever venture into a 3rd world country alone like that. It is so exceedingly foolish.
That's the reason,the backpack was handed in,and bones, to make everyone go away, otherwise,the parents would have stayed in Panama,and searches would have continued indefinitely,and the perps and others, did not want that scenario!!
So they had the backpack and the body parts stored in their freezer or cellar all the time in case they would need them later?
Pity innocent girls.. I've watched a lot of their cases..
Locals, any local. Police, part time employee, guides, etc.. Locals. The cover is too obvios.
Thanks for doing the subtitles, Scarlet. Very interesting video.
6:20 _"This case will never close until we find something."_ Then a few weeks later the backpack turns up.
But this probably intensified the search, and maybe somebody said: _"This case won't close until we find some remains."_
Then, hey, presto, some remains turn up..
The remains that were found were pretty strange, almost like what you'd expect if somebody partly exhumed the bodies and grabbed a part from each.
And it does look like all their clothes were removed, except for Lisanne's shoe which they probably couldn't remove due to swelling from the broken foot.
Kind of strange how they found pretty much the "same" clothes from each girl, bras, shorts, shoes, but no tops. And I don't see how shorts could get disentangled from both bodies when it looked like Lisanne's foot (and skin) had only just started to decompose..
I think they took their clothes off to take a swim possibly at the hot springs. I wonder if the foot was broken as a form of torture, after all Osman's feet were bashed up, weren't they?
Definitely a partial exhumation from a high altitude jungle grave in Lissane's case, probably an indication that leaving remains was not part of the killer's original plan. They took a leg from Lisanne corpse all the remains found of her were from her leg. One boot from each, both found by guide 'F, 2 days apart. Kris died without her bra, shorts or boots on.
@@seancidy6008 I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "definitely", but it's a possibility. We don't really even have any evidence that they didn't just get lost and succumb to the elements.
It's easy to make "lost" theories, and it's also easy to make "foul play" theories, and to make either one seem reasonable, but all we know for definite is that the didn't have their bras on when they died, the rest of their clothing could have come off in the fast moving rivers in the rainy season.
And just a note: The reason the guide found most of the remains and belongings is because he and his group continued searching for months after the official searchers gave up. He probably managed to get more closure for the families than any of the authorities or anyone else did.
@@JoeBob79569 ua-cam.com/video/l1t8OZn_uhE/v-deo.html
From the last photo I think that they ran from the guys that came suddenly to them. Then on of the ladies fell down . And they were rapped.
Always coming back to the articles (especially in the Dutch paper AD) and reports that were made in the weeks and month after the dissapearance. They give us a more realistic perspective on what might have happened to the girls than the 'they got lost and/or injured' bullcrap from the end of 2014. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. But be prepared for Betzaida Pitti's upcoming book, a true Lost in the Amazon'ish wilderness hand guide. All the news from the first hour is already being cast aside on some forums as scoop making claptrap. The big preparation for a total rewriting of history perhaps :)
@@scarletr.7753 Yeah, thanks for the warning, I'm not gonna read that shitty document, although I'm curious how they're going to counter the tons of evidence that the girls could not have been lost, from the total lack of logical communication attempts (not even a text message in draft) to the missing photo 509, an iPhone 4 still operating after 10 days, the dry backpack and contents and the ultra fast decomposition of the bodies. To me it is 100 percent clear it was murder. Either by drug runners or by some local scumbags who wanted to 'party'. Even organ trafficking could be a possibility, although it seems a bit cumbersome to kill European tourists for that purpose.
@@Kanarie1973 She is already busy on one forum, trying to make journalists from all serious newspapers from the beginning look like scoop hungry paparazzi. You can have a solid story regarding foul play, those people will just find one wobbly detail and start tearing the whole tower down in an attempt to make anyone who does not follow Pitti's bullshit look like a 'conspiracy nutcase'. Yeh, we will see what old files and police reports are dug up. If they clash with the reports of the first hours and with the testimonies of people who had insight in the most important police files and investigation reports, I'll definitely highlight this. As for the hard questions (like you said; total absence of normal communication attempts/photo making/documentation as well as the intact ball of skin found 5 months later, or the extreme discrepancy of decomposition state of the remains which were found in the same vicinity + explaining how they were found near a fecking VILLAGE while nobody found any trace of these girls for at least 10 weeks of hard searching): my bet is that all the inconvenient hard questions will just be ignored. As lost believers almost always do
@@scarletr.7753 That's right: 'losters' may ignore all the signs that this wasn't an accident, but that does not work the other way around. But it's the same with covid19, every bit of criticism is being labeled as 'conspiracy'. You just have to follow the narrative. Now, in this particular case the narrative is laughable. The evidence of a crime is so overwhelming, it's very, very hard to state that this was merely an accident.
The problem is, that nowadays everything is about money. If you want to seriously publish about this case (read = making money with a book) you have to get approvement of the parents and that means you follow the narrative. It's sickening.
@@Kanarie1973 Some of those people are almost using psychological warfare tactics, ok that's an exaggeration, but they absolutely measure with 2 sticks. They can nitpick from the known facts whatever they like to hammer on about and ignore the inconvenient forensic findings that do not match with their theory. But when you challenge them on it, they turn the table instantly and start requesting that YOU first explain why a killer would allow his victim to keep handling their phones. Now someone messaged me about an interesting German case where exactly that happened (Frauke Liebs). But yeh, it's like debating with kids at times. I have given up for the most part tbh. You can sense them a mile away at some point, always the same attacking rhetoric and the same repeated talking points. Never a nuanced view. Bleh, next. Yes that whole black and white thinking has seeped into many parts of life. Same with politics also. You are either the devil for voting for the wrong party/person or you are one of us. No normal debate is possible anymore without someone shrieking in utter horror about some offensive word you may have used, a word that often was suddenly declared offensive that same week. Think differently? -> you are a conspiracy nutcase. It's like being in kindergarden all over again. Yes they have a lot of problematic forensic facts to wrestle with, the Lost believers and thus they resort to name calling, ridicule and selected memory to push the Accident scenario. I even read some reddit users trying to discredit a police chef like Dick Steffens lately. As if this man with an enormous state of service would purposely feed into a crime theory, so that he has some more work opportunities himself with his detective agency. Utterly disgusting. They are trying to set Adelita Coriat and other journalists of the 1st hour away as rambling potheads as well, out there only for the scoop and parroting the mainstream media narrative. It is just another attempt to push their own importance, by trying to trample other people down. It's getting ugly by now
Thank you for sharing this Scarlet!
This is the truth!; Being captured and tortured by drugs gangs! I honestly hope u girls have a good after Life
Very good video thanks for this !!!!
Those poor girls deserve Justice.
Very interesting and informative video Scarlet, great job. This video says everything,that region is NOT a safe place. Although the suspects directly involved with the missing women have been silenced by murder, im very happy to see forigners living there and are still investigating... maybe one day we can find the truth. I guess the parents gave up after realizing what a corrupt and dangerous place that is and decided to retreat and wait for further investigation.
Definitely someone or bad gang tortured and murdered them. 😔
@equizolls I already do, and who did it as well.
@@seancidy6008 who?
@@theonlyway4366 The guide 'F'. probably with his son(s) at his ranch. Him finding their clothes and remains relatively near his ranch is conclusive. Kris was the target she was held prisoner for a week. The people in Alto Romero (closest village to F's ranch and extremely close to where the backpack was found know, and so do those in Boquete. F' has a local reputation for 'me-too behavior and is blacklisted by many businesses in Boquete.
@@seancidy6008 sounds very clever! No doubt he is involved. I'm around Boquete today and I just went wandering around the entrance of El Sendero el Pianista by myself... I felt that I was being watched by some people from the restaurant... they kind of feel responsible for whatever happens inside
@@theonlyway4366 Some one from that restaurant (likely one of the owners' children) gave amazingly, deliberately, inaccurate accounts of Kris and Lisanne starting their hike an hour or two before nightfall. Another small business owner at the trailhead swore he saw them return and go back into Boquete. They wanted to divert bad publicity, by giving false testimony suggesting Kris and Lisanne were foolhardy, or by saying they returned (and went to some wild party). Punishing the brazen killer was the last thing on any Panamanians' mind. They simply do not care about what happened to a couple of gentle and naïve Dutch girls who were horribly murdered.
Those locals ''guides'' with those clothes and no trekking gear or machetes, could have only have searched the paths and few meters from the paths, and what ever humanly used land was on the paths.
Ty for sharing this video, I joined the Reddit community kremersfroon just recently, which I won't recommend at all, mostly because its filled with arrogant losters, who mock you when you try to explain how this case indeed involves "foul play" I shared your blog in the community and Juan's library, only to end up getting dissed by the losters some of them said that your blog is unreliable and that it's not well researched, what idiots, goes to show how blind losters really are and indeed live in a cave, also most losters were actually defending guide F, I swear I lost some brain cells reading their perspective, despite the fact that some women shared her review of guide F being a creep guess what some loster had to say, that she was lying to make this look like "foul play" reddit losters are annoying af...
Hi, yeh I am aware of the reddit problem too. A real shame, as it is one of the few active internet forum dedicated to this disappearance case that are left. But it has been hijacked by a little group of very aggressive cynical Lost believers. Terrible atmosphere on there. I followed it in the past and there used to be a more balanced group of ppl posting back then. They have my blog in their clipped case info list for a reason I suppose. before Juan and I started gathering all this case info and translating it from Dutch into English, barely anyone still discussed this case, much less in the English language. I dare to say that every redditer has read our work and gets their case basics from us, for a good part. I add source links to literally everything, which was a monster job, but you have to remember that these few redditors that are left and very vocal right now, have their own agenda. I am openly suspecting Foul Play and so does Juan, so of course they will try to spit on us. Most ppl on reddit have done nothing at all for this case, so they can hiss and bitch all they like. It just shows how a great place for discussion has turned into a cesspit, without proper moderating. But everyone can think whatever they want. I did my best and spent a good chunk of time to bring this case to a bigger audience and translating and gathering information. That's that, people can think about it whatever they want. That sort of toxic Groupthink isn't my cup of tea, but some people crave for a little group to belong to, and unfortunately they use that reddit place for it
@@scarletr.7753 Well said and exactly, I literally looked everywhere about this case only to find so much misinformation and lack of research, until I found your blog and was amazed how much authentic research you had on this compared to others, also Jaun's research especially on the picture manipulation was magnificent, heck one of the pictures where Lissane is standing on the summit smiling with supposed wet hair is blatant photoshopping, her right arm proves it, since it had a different colored background in the middle, I'm not a photoshop expert and even I can see through the pictures..so far I wish the parents released atleast some of the pictures, but then again maybe they know what happened and don't want to reopen old wounds..and we'll never know what exactly those criminals did to them. 😔
@@RetroHorrorFan Thanks Retrogeek. There will always be criticism and that is fine, but reddit has become a bit of Clown World unfortunately. Glad you enjoyed my and Juan's work on this case. I also wished the parents had published all the photos in their original dimensions, as well as the full case/police files, as many eyes see more than just a couple of eyes. But alas. It is not clear either why the Kremers eventually had enough of pushing this case and challenging the authorities. Some people think a deal was struck perhaps, and they know more than us, in exchange for backing off. But this is just a theory and not verified, it may not be true.
@@scarletr.7753 Indeed.
Ok so here in Orlando Fl USA WHEN there's a a problem to get the residents to Cooperate with the police ,Detectives issue a CRIME TIPS HOTLINE # , Where residents can anonymous call Crime TIPS , the person is then given a secret id# which they can then claim the REWARD $$$$ .
This is a perfect way to get the public to turn in these animals and not be afraid of any retribution plus they are getting paid.
It has worked amazingly here in Orlando Florida and residents are calling this Crime line Tips hotline. Perhaps you can call the Orlando Police Dept HERE IN fLORIDA and get a hold of the Crime line Tips detective and ask them more info on how to implement this Crime line tips# in Boquete because Boquete is beautiful tourist $ driven Economy and these animals are going to F it up for you guys and the Boquetes Economy.
Over in Boquete, from what I know from message boards there and news articles, the police invited everyone who had seen something or who knew something to come forward and make the trip to the local police office him- or herself. Which did not exactly result in a lot of witness visits, because people there are said to be suspicious and wary of the police.Who can be corrupt at times. And social control is immense, people know a lot of each other and gossip about everything. So yeh, a risky business, going to the police there. Your country's system sounds way better, especially if you can entrust the police with such delicate information. Over here in the NL key witnesses have have seen their identities and info thrown on the streets at times by errors made by the State or the General prosecution. Unfortunately. Yeh, that is great info. Maybe some locals from Boquete are interested in this and willing to forward it to their local policemen and -women.
@@scarletr.7753 Yes something has to be done about this this is horrible and I have daughters and I can’t even imagine this happening but definitely you guys reach out to the Orlando Police Department detectives here in Florida in Orlando Florida and speak to them about information on how to go about activating this one like tips 800 number even if they give some type of information it will give people a custom to start to start usingThis system knowing that is anonymous good luck to you God bless happy 2021
Im literally staying kn boquette right now😅😅
Stay safe! 😁😎
Send some hired soldiers with good interrogation Technics. 24 hours action and go.
That cost a lot of money, you must have that
@@johnlam7854 Panama does not have an army so their police are not police, they have one paramilitary organisation, which would not be particularly good at anything even if they were well paid, which they are not.
Thank you for share. I think Panama police need more training. i saw in other video how some guy manipulated the evidence. Where is the picture 509. the person that found the backpack should be investigate, the guide guy with the white hat has to be investigate it, search his house for some evidence just a piece of hair something. who kill the taxi driver? and fire the Mrs Piti the police shift.
Luckily Miss Pitti already got fired in January of 2015. Probably the only justice this case ever saw..
Thanks for the info. This case need to be open again, Im pretty sure that something is going to come out.
I found out that something similar happened in bocas del toro with american girl. but the FBI found the killer. 17 years old guy. ihope the FBI intervene in this case too.
@@d7rledez The FBI at the time linked these two cases together and even wanted to dig into the Kris and Lisanne disappearance. But they soon after removed this info from their site and left, after solving the Catherine Johannet case :(
@@scarletr.7753 I know for sure that FBI would close this case, and found the responsible. Thanks for share. I been there in Boquete many years ago, in 70s. There is a lot off Indian that Sunday are drunk and fighting. But the people are good. They kill the taxi driver he know something. He has the same last name of the guide guy Gonzales they maybe are related.
Can anyone tell me if all the people who died in suspicious ways , did they all die after the reward money was put forward or not ??
You cannot claim a reward for a crime you are have taken an active part in yourself. Those lads were supposedly in of the abduction and probabally the murder too. Killing them would have had nothing in common with girls in the middle of nowhere who probably did not realise the lives were at stake even after the incident started (t girl has experience of fighting men)? Disguising those homicides of the men in the swining photo as accidental deaths would have been EXTREMLY difficult to do and nothing suggests the murderers of Kris and Lisannes are THAT smart or organised. After after the first one the others would know they were next and would have went to the police, or told their parents 'if anything happens to me X did it'
Did you check the voice recorder for a message?cell phone voice recorder.
They did. Nothing was recorded, no draft messages were made, no text message sent, no attempts to call anyone but 112 and 911, no notes, nothing.
The gang did it somewhere but not the Pianista Trail . Feliciano was instructed to cover up and give misleading information to the parents and search teams. The night photos are 100% staged . The woman who found the backpack is an actress only. This explains why she is not given the 30K cash reward.
Hij zegt zo lang het onderdoek gefinancierd blijft dat hij zijn werk blijft doen. Kunnen we niet een crowed funding openen om hem weer aan het werk te krijgen?
Dat is lief maar dit is een oudere video, jammer genoeg. De zaak is nu gesloten en men heeft geconcludeerd dat het een ongeluk was (geen verder bewijs is geleverd voor wat voor ongeluk dan precies). Juan heeft geprobeerd om het OM de zaak opnieuw te laten heropenen, maar zij verwijzen je gewoon door naar de Panamese openbaar aanklagers
Why there no video about the case for these people taxi driver and Othman and other who involved
There are videos about that, look for the ones about the podcast from Jeremy Kryt. I also wrote about them in this blog post: koudekaas.blogspot.com/2021/03/feeling-that-comes-over-you-when-you.html
You gora dig in the crime Networks in the neighboring countries to Panama . Foreigners might be involved in the girls abduction
Young girls don't travel alone, go as a group or with men to dangerous in country s like that
Sad but true... Women should be able to do lots of things, but the fact is that there are people in this world that will hurt you, given an opportunity. Women can be cautious and careful but your average guy will always outpower your average woman. We should be free to do as we want, but reality is unfortunately that you need to keep your wits and be cautious to avoid harm. Women are a target in many countries
where was god this time that two pure darlings needed him?psychopath, cheater is god
This is not God's fault you need to study a Bible ❤ we brought through sin death evil murder sickness not God. God is perfect righteous. To blame God is psycho
Could you see eye of Kris 05.48 min. It was horrible. Really I felt very bad myself. How can you look to your friend? Really terrible.
Can you explain what is terrible at that moment at 05:48?
@@scarletr.7753 I saw a devil in eyes of Kris. It was a so bad moment. She was not looking well to her friend. You can watch her when she was riding the bike. And Lisa was taking a video.
Maybe she looked that way for fun for the camera
I was born and raised and visited Chiriqui in my vacations I never never heard of any crime. The so called tourist are bringing their bad habits this is a small town with no bad habits. I knew these foreigners are bringing their nasty habits..that sucks. 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎they are ruining my country...hate that
That is an interesting take Maria. I can tell that tourism brings some negative things to your community. Serious question; how about drug dealing and violent crimes? They are also reported among the native population? This happened among locals for instance: www.midiario.com/uhora/policiales/los-aterradores-elementos-del-salvaje-asesinato-de-la-boquetena-nuris-castrellon/
@@scarletr.7753 remember you are taking to a native not a foul. I lived there and NEVER heard of any nasty crime, drugs, or even alcohol I am sure there was a SMALL percentage but not to risk the native safety. It only takes one nasty criminal 😤 Chiriqui is beautiful 😍 and should not be over populated with strangers that will bring yes bad habits. I have never done drugs, or even smoke or alcohol that I can thank my country and my parents. They did not make a lot of money 💰 but did not showed me bad things. I feel too many people "steangers" are moving to Panama 🇵🇦 that can't handle the influx of too many people with who know what habits and I could care or less about your nasty link..👎👎👎👎👎👎
@@lmaureen1335 yeh there seem to be a lot of expats in Boquete. But luckily there are also friendly generous locals like yourself. It's a common phenomenon to blame the strangers for everything bad under the sun
so people like you killed these girls
@L Maureen you should know that saying that bad things "never" happen is absolute ridiculousness. If you want to sound believable at all try to not speak in extremes. Also, sounds like you really don't like "strangers" for some reason, well maybe don't leave your home country because "strangers" go missing in all countries. Your parents didn't raise you to be welcoming or humane so no one cares if you drink or do drugs, that's not what makes you a good person, empathy, compassion, open mindedness, that's what you need. Shame on you
Those locals ''guides'' with those clothes and no trekking gear or machetes, could have only have searched the paths and few meters from the paths, and what ever humanly used land was on the paths.
Yes and that shows they knew Lisanne and Kris with bare legs and arms would not, could not, have gone into anything resembling jungle. They were most likely led away through the cow pasture.