Philosophy of the Orphic Mysteries - The Derveni Papyrus - Myth of Orpheus and Ancient Greek Science
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- The Orphic Mysteries remain as obscure as they are fascinating. Indeed, they are responsible for the oldest surviving book manuscript in European history. Discovered in the charred remains of a funeral pyre, the Derveni Papyrus is an amazing combination of ancient Greek mystery religion and the scientific/philosophical revolutions of the 5th century BCE - here Orpheus meets Heraclitus and Anaxagoras.
#orphism #philosophy #mysteryreligion
Recommended Reading:
The Derveni Papyrus - 978-8822255679
Papadopoulou - An Introduction to the Derveni Papyrus - chs.harvard.ed...
Betegh - The Derveni Papyrus: Cosmology, Theology and Interpretation - 978-0521047395
Janko - The Derveni Papyrus ("Diagoras of Melos, Apopyrgizontes Logoi?"): A New Translation - www.jstor.org/...
Conference - THE FIRST COLUMNS OF THE DERVENI PAPYRUS - • THE FIRST COLUMNS OF T...
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Being a Greek I can read ancient Greek too.
Thanks for the content, its all very interesting, have you done a video on the first origins of magic?
I have the monthly and I throw extras a few times a month. I watch UA-cam (about five channels this one included) more than tv…twenty to one. My cost to say thanks is less than tv and I get 100x more from it. Esoterica is awesome!
Holy crap! A Tomb of Horrors reference! Don't take any jeweled skulls, my friend.
We need a stone slab inscribed with all of Justin's one-liners
Then bury it so that archeologists 2500 years from now will puzzle over the esoteric significances.
Year 3023. "What did he meant with history, philosophy and religion? Is he talking about that Geist thing from that dude Hegel?"
The Stele of Snark?
..when wild Aristotles roamed the Earth..." 😂
So long as they're carved in at least two current languages and one dead one, to give some future archaeologist the privilege of finding "The Esoterica Stone," right next to all the plaques from UA-cam.
Hell yeah. Or a top 12 T-shirt if the merch gods are listening. The time capsule thing is groovy too.
wait, the Sophists literally wrote books called 'how to SLAM Socrates with facts and logic?' smh
“When wild Aristotle’s roamed the earth” 🤣🤣🤣 Wahoo Evil Dead references too! 🤣 Yess 🙌🏻 I’ve heard of this discovery and have been wanting to learn more about it. Thankyou sir!! I only recently discovered your wonderful channel and I am now a super fan 🌟 This pay day I am SO subscribing on Patreon! 💗✨🙌🏻
Well this one certainly lived up to the Esoterica logo, covering the arcane. philosophy and religion!
You've introduced me to something I had never heard of Dr S thanks for another mind bending episode!!!
"The phallus swallowing version" made me laugh out loud.. some of the dry humor he injects is priceless.
I love how humble you are in your disclaimer, and this makes your borderline self-depreciating humor all the more endearing; I am subscribing and I hope to hear more of your work soon.
Bro never made a follow up video on Orphism 😭
@@lordofutub Maybe some day that will change?
The Chokeslam of the Absolute. There's a Tech-Death Metal album title if I ever heard one.
"choke slam of the Absolute".
*WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DEWWWW WHEN THE CUNNING OF HISTORY COMES FOR YOU, B R O T H E R !*
@@TheEsotericaChannel announcer: AND JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS OVER FOLKS, HERE COMES NIETZSCHE WITH A WILL-TO-POWERSLAM!
@@dontchewglass Will-to-Power-Slam
@@TheEsotericaChannel at first I wanted to make a joke about Marx suplexing Hegel to "turn him on his head" but Will-to-Power-Slam just works much better
@@TheEsotericaChannel 😄
The deadpan dungeon master delivery is awesome. I laughed out loud thru the first half 😅
You are absolutely my favorite channel. Thank you Dr. Sledge for sharing your wealth of knowledge and providing your sources.
When you cross over,
Don’t drink from the first river,
No matter how dry your thirst.
There is another smaller river,
As you will discover,
If you only keep moving:
It flows among cypress trees,
Its water is fresh and clear
And it is banked with clover,
Bulrushes and lilies.
Drink from its water
On your hands and knees.
At the crossroads with three
Forking paths, you will discover
That the right path is the best.
Do not be tempted to take any
Other, and don’t dither
Deciding. Go right. Keep going.
Your channel is a hidden gem of UA-cam 💎 📚
What a true treasure this channel is. Thank you Dr. Sledge
It is a joy to see someone who treats all of human culture as worthy of a mention in academic discussion.
An amazing text is an amazing text - doesn't have to be from my culture for me to be amazed by it.
@@TheEsotericaChannel I wish--especially as a speculative fiction writer--that more in my sometime field of academia would appreciate this.
@19:33 brb have to read Kant's Suplex of Pure Reason.
I am in love with the term *_"Fractal Ontology"._* As above, so below after all...
I would love even more content about Orphism 💜 I love your channel thank you!
Just how many wild Aristotles are you envisioning? One is probably enough for most timelines.
I'm just here to say I got a pair of small circular glasses, because you can't study the occult without them.
I laughed hysterically at "If I were the scholars opening this miraculously preserved, funeral pyre tomb of horrors there's-a-lich-nearby-named-Acererak text, and the first words I could read were "Erinyes," "libations," "daimones," "destroyed utterly," and we're only on the fragments of the third column, I might suggest that we need to think more deeply about our life choices."
"A lich named Acererak", well played Dr. Sledge. Better watch out for cave-ins and Spheres of Annihilation.
Good advice;)
I went on a fieldtrip to a roman/greek tomb in that region
And the atmosphere was crazy , underground with low light the frescos still strong looking at the tomb felt like these mf's could rise up any second, totally a different world.
This has been my favorite episode of ALL TIME. You're like: "Let me share a bunch of stuff that will likely-" and I'm like: Absolutlely capture my imagination with its potential for mystery- Sir, why do you think I'm here? LOVE this one!!!
“What we have here is an esoteric text produced in a mystery religion being read to express what was, at that time at least, cutting edge philosophical and scientific theories, and then surviving until today after being burned with a Macedonian aristocrat probably in anticipation of securing a beneficent afterlife.” Dr. Justin Sledge on the Derveni Papyrus.
Even way back then, the struggle between science and religion.
can you imagine walking on a hike and seeing a wild Aristotle? that must have been so nuts all those centuries ago. Now we only have domesticated "designer" philosophers like Jordan Peterson. I hope we come up with some kind of conservation effort to bring back wild ecosystems where philosopher species like the early Platonists can come back on their own.
The Diagoras theory is certainly not right, and Janko relies on unreliable late testimonia on Diagoras and his connections to Orphism. There's a good refutation of it in Marek Winiarczyk's book on Diagoras of Melos.
A time when wild Aristotles roamed the earth 😂😂😂
You videos are like poetry to my ears! Thank you for the incredible research, good humor and beautiful philosophy
A proper understanding of what you're being initiated into? But how will the priests maintain their power?
Like anyone else, by being the best.
I wish you were my husband so you could tell me all about the cool and delightfully terrifying things you find🥺
Choke slam of the absolute is so good hahaha
Imagine a herd of wild Aristotles, lounging in an olive grove to escape the heat of the Mediterranean sun, when a pack of Cynics approach, licking their chops and cackling.
I hear that British guy narrating the scene :)
@@TheEsotericaChannel David Attenborough voice : "And here come the Cynics. Note their curious barrel-and-lamp attachments. See how the Aristotles look around to see if the Alexanders are present to offer protection."
Spinoza’s Slamdunk Argument for Substance Monism :3
I tend to think spiritual texts are meant to be metaphorical in nature. They lend themselves then to a wide range of disciplines and philosophical thinking. Literalism kills them stone dead.
Fascinating discovery. Really intriguing for its time and connections to a range of narratives.
Thank you for this 🙏🏻 Looking forward to more on Orphism. Something about it pulls me in. I’ve been reciting the Orphic hymns. Good stuff. ✨
All I know. Orpheus was no lyre.....but the head of the class.
Incredible work on the Orphism, I have always fascinated by it thanks to Dionysos and His Divinity along with His eery similarities to Jesus Christ. Although, I don't think that it necessarily just straight up pompfts down Christ, after all, Ficino worked it out!
Speaking of which, can you perhaps do a video on Jakob Boehme? Thanks man
Yessss! Jacob Boehme pls ;D
Early Christianity does indeed borrow a lot of the concepts about the soul and afterlife from Orphism.
Jesus was modeled upon Dionysus & other vegetative, or dying & reviving, gods, like Hyacinth, Narcissus and so on - I wrote a paper on this topic, which my beloved professor, who was both a Classics/Near Eastern scholar [who knew about 10 ancient/modern languages] AND was a Presbyterian minister, accepted my premise, albeit a bit reluctantly.
@@sherylholland2378 *Great comment! In the end, it's the archetype that 'matters'.... Double entendre intended!* 👍
Modeled how? You propose Jesus was an invention?
The thing about ancient philosophers naming their writings after wrestling moves is fantastic, reminds me very much of our modern, public intellectuals and how people talk about them "destroying", "eviscerating", "demolishing." etc. each other through their arguments. Hilarious.
I was reading Eliphaz Levi, who suggests Kabbalah came from Abraham, do we have reference to how he came about it?
With the exception of sefer yetzirah which is late classical, kabbalah is fully medieval
I loved this. I had not heard of the papyrus prior to this.
You should’ve entitled this video ‘The Choke Slam of the Absolute’ :)
Yeah, it's a pity, right? It's pretty amazing, at least I think so.
Chokeslam of the Absolute is the greatest book title I've ever heard LOL
So basically it's the 'tao of physics' of it's time?
Dude, we are definitely kindred spirits here. Let’s strike up a conversation with the ghost who tells us to get out. 😂 I love your style in delivering speculations about these mysteries. Well done. If it gets disproved later who cares. You gave us a good introductory course into the subject.
Excellent... Could you do more on early greek philosophy and esotericism.... It feels like its all there.... Maybe the unwritten doctrine of plato's academy, your take on soco, the dionysian/Apollonian switch Nietzsche mentions, or karl jaspers axial age, or all the heidegger stuff on being and clearings and greek temples, or maybe a general cultural video on the relationship between poerty, theology, and logical thought in ancient greece, or how they viewed and understood it.... etc.
As a philosopher i think you could produce a whole gang of content on that intersection alone. e.g. why walter benjamin was all about the jewish mysticism (loved the video on spinoza), or 60s self help as an outgrowth of theosophy, neoplatonism and kabbalah, etc.
Either way really just commenting to keep lord algorithm happy.... Youre the best!!!!
This pls
“The German Suplex of the Truth.”
“YOU CAN’T SEE ME”
the part about the sun is old, i seen a video recently, of some of the last hunter/gatherers in africa, and the chief was asked about what happens when they die, he said something about burying them in a cave, and they went to the sun, so the idea of people going to the sun, is pretty old, and probably the idea of solar deity spread with the people over time
Esoteric glee! I love it! Good job, Dr. Sledge. I love your channel and always learn so much. Thank you.
My favorite book title comes from India. It was written in the 9th century by a Carvaka skeptic named Jayaraśi. Called Tattvopaplavasiṃha, it translates to "The Lion That Devours All Categories."
Love those Carvaka guys
Wow .... is it easy to read ?
I'm wondering if you've heard of asemic writing, a form of visual poetry that often resembles ancient, unknown languages? Such a fabulous channel! Thank you for your work.
Can you please bring back Greek mysticism
Pls do a video on Orphic cults
I just discovered your channel. You had me at "The Choke-slam of the Absolute"
It's a zinger
The wrestling move titles shows how chad the greeks were
Your humour is deadly! This is a wondrous cave of splendours. And, the Lyre plays on...
This channel is amazing, every episode is so well done. I Wish I had this to watch as a kid
Please do more orphism
I want to play in your D&D game
I had never read of the Derveni manuscript. Look, maybe I didn't say every tiny syllable. Thank you for the introduction.
Greek or Thracian religion
Tomb of Horrors bahahahaha
The Mysteries were introduced in Delpfi, many, many centuries before the 6-7th century. The name of the Thracian god Orpheus translates as the Guardian of the temple/ Delpfi and Perperikon, where Alexander understood that he would conquer the world/. In 334 BC, the Greeks massacred all the priests in the temple and replace them with their own.
The topic of this video and your dedication to discussing it and others matters in your work, are why I subbed to your channel
However, the random Evil Dead and DnD references in this video tell me that i certainly made the right choice
Me, reading "Eyrnies" etc ancient text from foreboding tomb : Oh? Oh! Cool, I think I unlocked the secret apocalypse ending? Man this game has wild easter eggs.
It's really exciting for me to be able to read these texts in Greek although I have no idea what they mean. Could you do something more in early Greek philosophy and the Mysteries especially? We are not taught in school about those.
Considering the latest phililogical developments with AI and disentangling charred scrolls...I'm curious if they'll use it to further understand the text
snuppy puppy says hi!
Thanks dr Sledge, another ripper explaining pre Christ saviour myths.
Proving to me Christ's teaching of gnosis above the saving from sins.
Orphism and the cult of Dionysus are borrowed by Greeks. Not so recent findings say these cults originate from the Thracians
I rarely comment. Thank you very much for this mentally stimulating and fascinating content.
Rest in Peace feathered creature and professors, no zeroth dimension.
Any resemblance s to one(s) static or nonstatic, living and or nonliving is a quantum coincidence. Earthly sol³⁶⁶ discernment and discretion advised.
“Fervent and Necronomi papyri are both groovy”
-Ash would NEVER lol
I thought I let you know. I stopping commenting to other people. Not because they want me too. I know I should because I said every thing I wanted too. Oh yeah
"The Chokeslam of the Absolute"
*deathcore starts palying*
Eddyson would have been electrifyed-cuted kndofathang...
Jacob was also a wrestler. Could be that this was a metaphysical struggle toward revelation, as if the angel doesn't want to relent, unless you force it/seek it.
Theodore Holden
"When wild Aristotles roamed the earth" what a fuckin wordsmith!
Asceticism associated with Dionysus is so interesting
Gods were often empowered by their opposite. Like how Apollo was agod of both disease and healing
Dr, would you be so kind to make a video on who and what the demon Valac is?
“Chokeslam of the Absolute” Hegel will forever be a worm for not naming his book this
7:46 made me laugh because it’s true
Thanks!
Thanks!
Strait from the Nous of Zeus
Wow, what a freaking night I've had. Its started with the full moon and a choice to do a little entheogens, have a nice bath and attempt to find "the sacred bowl pf inner peace" inside me.
Ended up hearing this new artist, Carolina sumthin and the song "Billions" came up. Ill update this when Im less...
Anyways, cool shit, Dionysus, greek cool and sad, great debates in the comments. To high to interact. LOL
Came away with this idea that Dionysus and the Ouroborus had to have SOMETHING in common ..
Google showed me orphism. Looked that shit up on UA-cam and who do I see?!?! Dr. Justin Sledge!! My main dude when it come to wrapping my brittle brain around giant pointy topics that I MUST know.
I have absolutely no odea how I have never heard of this before. Really, its like EVERYTHING I am super down with and have a literal small library of books about. Its like this script has decided to stay hudden from me till my mind was absolutely smashed. Hahaha...
So, long story short or TLDR. Got high, found a song that got me thinking about my love of anchient Greece. Then Justin came in and helped the universe break my brain.
I really truly appreciate everything about your channel and your personality. This is my first coherent ability to write, still pretty up there so my apologies if its crass or unintelligible.
❤
@@johnnewton8017 I kinda forgot about this, lol.
The song is Billions by Caroline Polachek. It's a banger and I prefer metal.
@@lovewins8184 I will definitely give it a listen! Have a great day, blessings.
@@lovewins8184 I just listened and I can certainly see how it punctuated an already beautiful experience.
@@johnnewton8017 It was hypnotizing in the moment and has a very warm spot in my heart now.
My take away was music and learning are what creates peace in me. It's where I should go when the world seems too rigid or fast. I always kind of knew this but didn't really understand till that experience.
I'm still not sure how Dionysus and the Ouroboros are connected, lol.
I hope you have a fantastic day as well. ❤️
Osiris also lost hie phallus. It seems to me that this form of castration relates to a decline or passing of authority.
19:40 “the choke slam of the absolute” absolute gold!!
What our species will come up with just to pass the time on this meaningless rock never ceases to amaze me. Great video!
been spending the last hour trying to find a high res scan of it, anyone got a link?
Don't read it aloud and you're probably fine.
Chokeslam of the Absolute. Another dope metal song name
Macho man metal
@@TheEsotericaChannel Hey, since I have your attention for the moment, is there a way I can contact you about working together on something?
Sure via my website!
Sufficiently disclaimed, yes lol
This is troubling. Please tell me more.
13:16 picture of the tomb lower picture top left corner. tearing? ITS OBVIOUSLY A CODE! HE FOUND THE ALIENS, GUYS!!!!
"...back when wild Aristotles roamed the earth..." 😂 I came for the knowledge, but stayed for the laughs. Thanks again!
Amazing these text survived
"The chokeslam of the Absolute" 🤣 Great stuff... There's something so modern about this rationalization of past "weirdness" in an attempt to "keep up" with "state of the art" discourses. It's sort of moving really. Cheers!