"Symphony of Being" Somehow i get Legion (the multi demon possessing that poor bastard in the levant) vibes. Like it's Legion's limit break when boss battling Josh.
I am the girl with the triangle in the Symphony. Thank you for your content. It is such a joy to hear these topics being spoken and you do so well. I love your jokes btw, keep them coming.
I was trained in kabbalistic practice in orthodox Jewish yeshivas, and I am struck by the similarities between what I was taught and practiced and Iamblachus's philosophy, except utilizing Torah as the sacred text. I did not fully appreciate the connection between the rabbinic kabbalistic tradition and neoplatonism until your channel, thank you. The only separation between much of the Jewish and surrounding traditions is what is scripture and the intellectual lineages, although the rabbis do not often credit Greek philosophers. I appreciate learning about it now to know what I don't want to be. Sublimation is for posers.
I’m curious about the possibility that Jewish and Christian ideas of worship actually influenced the Platonists. I don’t agree that the theurgy of Iamblichus survives in Christian liturgy. Writings in the New Testament about the Eucharist and sacrifices and sacrifice in the Hebrew Scriptures suggest a tradition that a Hellenistic would describe as theurgy. It may be that Christian Eucharistic ideas were adopted by Platonists. It may be that these cultures shared a theurgic worldview. It’s worth a thought.
It's the other way around. At least one historian of Kabbalah, Moshe Idel, pretty clearly shows that Kabbalaists adopted the Neoplatonic framework, almost in toto. The theory of emanationism is obviously pertinent. The Christians wither stole or adapted many Neoplatonic ideas. Why do we think the major Neoplatonic texts are missing? They rooted them out and burned them.@@colum6
i am amazed by the preparation people go through to achieve this, yet some of us are going through the information gathering trying to piece together the phenomena taking place. there is truth in all religions when i compare to my experience.
@colum6 even if christian eucharistic practice influenced later, neoplatonic theurgy, that eucharistic practice in theology was adopted from the Dionysian Mysteries. And there is a clear intellectual shame of transmission from dionysian cult, to orphism, to pythagoreanism, to platonism.
wonderful! This Lamblichus vs Neoplatonism debate also echoes in Jewish circles. Consider Maimonides vs. Kuzri & and the Kaballists, on if commandments are just educational and nominal or also have an effect in higher plains.
@@mysteriousjungalist really easy to just grab the orphic hymns and pick one to recite and offer the listed incense. Or pray a homeric hymn, Or one of the many other hymns and prayers and prayer formulas attested in Hellenic sources, and pour a libation. It's laid out for you in a way thats easy to grasp and had deap roots. Vs something like Norse Heathenry which will require more reconstruction borrowing and innovation to make s complete ritual.
Phenomenal. This one actually helped me to categorize and understand a lot of my own personal history, changes between different perspectives and uncommon personal experiences. I think that means I am a fan of both Iamblichus and of Esoterica, without which my understanding of Iamblichus would still be pretty hazy
I’ve been wanting a video like this about Iamblichus for a while and you definitely delivered!! I noticed a lot of parallels with certain schools of Vedanta, especially Vasistha Advaita. The Noetic Theurgy reminds me of jnana yoga and the ritual Theurgy reminds me of the teachings of Shankaracharya. The idea that the offerings become transformed into something more divine is also paralleled in the ideas of prasad in Hinduism. Awesome video!
Shankara would be the last person to teach ritual as a way to enlightenment; there is no action or karma you can perform that can give you permanent freedom since all effects are limited. I don't recall what text it is in but I know he says, verbatim ''he who worships another beyond himself becomes the plaything of the Gods''.
This was definitely high level stuff, but I found it very accessible. I’m not very knowledgeable with the technical side of all this, but this makes perfect sense to me on a spiritual level. I’d argue there is a unique value in learning from content like this from a scholar on the internet. It’s the closest thing I’ll experience to the ancient lectures. And that experience it invaluable for understanding the heart of the philosophy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
*Takes notes* This is terrifically useful for a book I'm writing (fantasy, as ever). Accessible, accurate, content concerning classic Hellenic religious practice is gold dust. Thanks for your help, Dr. Sledge!
I had to rewatch the first 10 minutes of your video after deciding which T-Shirt to get. But this is fine, rewatching your videos is one of my favourite things to do. Thanks again!
This is wonderful. Thank you, sincerely, for the time you've invested into learning the material, learning to explain it well, and sharing it freely. I learned a tremendous amount from this lecture. Such fascinating history renews my hope for a continuity of existence in which I have more time to read books. This life isn't going to be sufficient to satisfy all my curiosities.
Appreciations for this pithy overview! Even though Iamblichus' cosmology differs significantly from that of the nondual Shaivism to which I am accustomed, I readily sympathize with (1) the heartfelt aspirations towards the Divine Source Consciousness, (2) reliance on divine grace, which we would call "śaktipāta", (3) conscious participation in the divine work, (4) the value of devotional-contemplative ritual, (5) the recognition of esoteric "correspondences", and (6) the prospect of unitive spiritual experience.
are you speaking of conscious participating in the divine work in the astral realm or the physical, or both, if both, do you find that awareness shifts from depths to shallows in the dream, theatrical and astral spheres
Fantastic, I knew this would be a banger. I don't think Julian required quotes around The Apostate, he's pretty stoked about his turn away from Christianity towards what he'd frame as a Iamblichan Platonism with emphasis on the Hellenic qualities of it, being quite the Hellenophile. I think what was going on in Julian's mind was a fair bit more complicated, and garbled (no offense to the man), than the institution of a rival entity to Christianity as it had congealed by the 4th Century, there's an excellent work called "Julian's Gods: Religion and Philosophy in the Thought and Action of Julian the Apostate", the author really tries to get into the context Julian was writing and thinking in, and also humanizes what he was up to as well, as we are people and not truly detached intellectual agents. It's fairly technical and the author will quote scholarship done in French verbatim so it can be a bit tedious if you're not a Francophone and it definitely expects you to have a vague idea at bare minimum of Neoplatonic thought and the philosophical climate of Late Antiquity. He's an absolutely fascinating character and worth the attention of any scholar.
I just find it curious how Dr. Sledge openly speaks of Sabbatai Zevi and Elisha ben Abuyah as heretics, apostates and such, but for Julian he uses quotes. Interesting.
This is one of my favorite videos because it taught me so much about a subject I was ignorant of. I’m used to only theurgy being named dropped. The contranatural perception of Sorcery makes sense as well as not being flashy with over use of Theurgy. Fantastic again Doc Sledge. Again the further reading section is indispensable for us layman who are curious!
Thank you, so much; it is such a privilege to ride the coattails of your life's pursuit :) A longtime listener, I only recently actually watched and there is no going back to audio only because you are HILARIOUS.
Yeeessssss! I've been waiting for something on Iamblichus since RfB mentioned this channel. Iamblichus is fascinating; he seemed to have been going for a "Grand Unified Theory of Paganism"
Thanks for this! I’ve been learning a lot about Catholicism and am coming to see the deep esoteric undergirding of Christianity. Makes me feel like our culture has such an impotent concept of spirituality. I wonder to what extent the laymen understood these concepts in their day and what happened for it to get so watered down. I’d love to understand more of what you said
You could put your efforts into longevity like the Daoist magicians and still have gone thru less that 1% of the material rituals from world traditions - everyday it feels like its always just over the next hill doesn't it? Or you could stop playing with the pebbles on the beach (alchemist deathbed quote) and switch tack, let go of self, and accept answers when you need them from the H.S.
@@Haverlock Is that "the Royal we" your highness? Or are you the planetary spokesperson now? Was there a show of hands? that not exactly fair on the internet 😢
Wow teaching is all I can say Dr. You cleared much opacity in Plato/Neo-Platonism for me in short time. And now I'm left wanting more Theurgy. Again, gratitude for the nuance, pace and great reading list. You took us as close to the doorway to the Divine as words can go. Now to turn inward through that doorway, and let theurgy be. Thank you for being the vehicle, Dr. Sledge. In light and truth
Really enjoy these spiritual examinations and multiple philosophies about a possible afterlife. Now if I can find guidance on my finances and relationships I'll have heaven on earth
I was just about to say how much I'd love to see you having a conversation with John Vervaeke, got a strange feeling come over me, so went to find it and have discovered you already have! Awesome.
I love this channel so very much. I mean honestly, the quality of it all is rather astounding. I've honestly been inspired to finally pursue this as a career and started school back up again.
Finding a repeatable and consistent feasible method for achieving Gnosis and/or Henosis would be idyllic. Those fleeting epiphanies do seem dependent on the willingness and/or grace of God's particular emanations....will they make an influential appearance or not?
@@mouwersor Psychedelics will do that whether you want them to or not, I think what people are hoping for is a route that isn't perceived as a shortcut and beyond the realm of alternative explanation.
This reminds me...I need new jeans. No, but this is seriously the episode I have been waiting for since I discovered your channel. These Neoplatonism collaborations have been a dream. Excellent video.
I feel blessed that I've found Esoterica. From my limited experience of study, Dr. Sledge, expresses opinions that ring true to what my net has caught. And it's so encouraging, to feel like what I've caught, has me on a path of enlightenment. Thank you❣️
Thank you again, Dr. Sledge. You condense a great deal of knowledge to its key points both effectively and entertainingly. I'd love to hear more from you on this topic in subsequent releases.
I remembered this episode and went back to it while reading "The Pagan Holy Man in Late Antique Society" by Garth Fowden. Goes very well together. Thanks!
It’s kind of interesting how this same sort of back and forth that you see with Poryphry and Iamblichus can be seen in a lot of different cultures. For example, you can notice a somewhat similar dichotomy between Shankara and Ramanuja in Vedantic Philosophy, the latter tries to defend the validity of traditional religious ritual within the philosophical context of the former
This was SOLIDLY one of my favorite talks of yours. I love the way you showed multiple connections and denials giving themselves their own head-spin. Many giggles, thank you!
I think my mind was blown in a way that had clarity and to borrow your term, continuity, as well as resonance, so I was able to once again briefly point in DiCaprio meme gif at some points! Thank you greatly, Dr Justin Sledge! I felt my comprehension today at least had some kind of through-line to reach back and relate to independently even as all your content have excellent springboards for further reading, playlist, and review!
Thank you Doctor Justin Sledge, You have made theurgy more understandable for me. Personally this information dense video required a bit of effort to take in this understanding of Iamblichus.
I've gotta say, not only EVEN as, but maybe ESPECIALLY as, a Catholic, I love the hot-takes on possible origins and relationships to other rituals of Catholic practice. Spiritual and religious practice is such a massive and integral part of human culture and history, and deserve careful scholarship, which your videos most substantively discuss, but the hot-takes are as effective a prophylaxis against unrestrained dogmatism as anything, and quicker to boot.
You should probably look into the Essenes and their Melkizedek-David traditions of bread and wine sacrifices. Dr. Brant Pitre has written a very useful book entitled “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” on this subject. Dr. John Bergsma wrote an incredible follow-up work entitled “Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls.”
The tiny jokes sprinkled throughout all of these videos are some of the best parts, and really help add some comic relief breaks from the heady and heady stuff being discussed -- bravo!
Thank you for educating us. I'm not at all interested in esoterica, in the sense that I will do nothing to learn more. But these videos show me the worlds of ideas that our modern thought come from.
TL;DR Summary: Yamblicus's philosophy emphasizes the importance of traditional cult practices and co-creative expression with the demiurgic gods in achieving gnosis and returning to the Divine world. 🧘♀ Theorgy is a solution to the paradox of the gulf between our finitude and the Divine infinitude, achieved through complex rituals resulting in identity with the Divine itself. 00:00 📚 Yamblicus believed in returning to ancient sources of wisdom to correct innovations in Pythagorean, Platonic, and Aristotelian philosophy, while rejecting the idea of categories and breaking with his own Platonic inheritance. 02:51 🌌 The soul can return to the Divine world by turning inward through philosophy, despite the limitations of matter and the somatic pessimism of Platonus and Porphyry, as Yamblicus emphasizes the religious dimension of devotional acts and co-creative expression with the demiurgic gods. 09:40 📚 Plato and his followers prioritized intellectualism and math over traditional cult practices, while Porphyry's arguments for vegetarianism were seen as an outrage to Helene ritual life. 16:35 🧘♀ Recognizing the goodness and beauty of the cosmos through philosophy and ritual actions is necessary to become co-demiological with the gods, according to Yamlicus. 19:18 🌟 Certain natural substances and intentional acts of devotion can activate spiritual purification and ascent back to the one, but sorcery is rejected due to its selfish nature. 24:39 🧘 Noetic theory combines spirituality and intellect, exploring the emergence of being through the dialectic of opposites. 30:01 📚 Theory is necessary for achieving hinosis, with theology playing a crucial role, but Yamblicus's de mysterious requires advanced philosophy knowledge to fully understand.
You seem to have your finger on all sorts Of vocabulary I search...well done and thank you - I hope one day you are able to say exactly what is in your heart when the mood strikes you...fearlessly here on youtube
Hi, Doctor Sledge. Totally fascinated with this last video. I already had noticed that iamblichean perspective on theurgy was totally in line with the traditional catholic perspective on the sacraments. Though authors like Hadot and Uzdavinys would argue that philosophy, more than an intellectual effort is more of a practice and a way of life. Even our St. Bonaventure, following the exemplar of St. Francis of Assisi said that theology was the practical way for the sanctification (read deificatio) of the theologian, and that the basis of theology is prayer and devotion, not so much a systematic intellectual effort. Will you be doing a video on the theology of Saint (or pseudo, whatever) Dionysius the Areopagite? That would be awesome.
Ps. I have no problen with saying we outpaganed the pagans and that we beat them at the theurgy olympics. Maybe protestant-sola fide christians may feel unconfortable but... well, it is what it is, man.
I can't imagine a greater joy or more worthy project than learning how to fulfill the requirements of Henosis. This seems to me to be telos inlaid in the laws of nature, and the sacred function of the individual.
23:25 🤯🤯🤯...Had to pause...Rewind...and play again. Still sitting here mind blown. The chant of, "WHAT? Wait a minute, What?...Who?...When?..,(I get the Why?)...How? Especially, how...😊😊😊
I have a technical question regarding the attribution of elements to the four Archangels of the quarters. Agrippa in Occult Philosophy book II, Chap. VII has the attributions as follows: Michael (Fire), Gabriel (Water), Raphael (Air), and Uriel (Earth). The Zohar in various sections states exactly the opposite; Michael (Water), Gabriel (Fire), Uriel (Air), Raphael (Earth). Where did Agrippa get those particular correspondences from?
Thanks for posting your detailed overview of Iamblichus and Theurgy. I found it very insightful and helpful. A few comments: I found 'The Mysteries' to be tough reading primarily because of the bitter tone of the writing and argumentative dismissals of Porphyry's position. In contrast, when Plotinus critiques someone, or some view, he is very patient and presents their view in detail before going on to present his own analysis (I'm thinking of Aristotle's Categories). // I appreciate you mentioning animal sacrifice in the context of Theurgy; my impression is that Iamblichus was really angry at the mere suggestion that animal sacrifice could be done away with. From Iamblichus's point of view certain types of deities can only be contacted through animal sacrifice. What is striking to me is that Iamblichus never sees the sacrifice of animals from the perspective of the animal; I think that is because he lacks empathy (I'm probably exaggerating; as you can tell I favor Plotinus and Porphyry). // Overall my view is that the theurgic interpretation of Platonism unnecessarily complicates the system; that there is no 'problem' in the Platonism of Plotinus that is solved through theurgy. I see theurgy as an add-on, or injection, of perspectives and views that inherently distort, and therefore make more difficult, the return to the One, the Good, and the Beautiful. // Thanks again for a presentation that packs so much information into a mere 40 minutes. Much appreciated.
Ah, so glad you did a video on this! I'll have to listen twice, probably. A couple of ideas: I wonder if you'd consider making a video on Kenneth Grant and the Typhonian Tradition? And, I wonder if you'd consider a video (or series?) on the "Simon Necronomicon?" I daresay you could do justice to such a complex issue as the "Schlangekraft Rescension."
Thanks very much for your time and energy, sir. I found myself disagreeing with some of the elements earlier in the session about the the Hermetic/Phaedric/Gnostic pessimism of the body, but I did agree with the notion about the Eucharist as being a good example of theurgy in both thought, action, and embodiment. Thanks!
Shaws book is wonderful. I wonderrd if wed get a recommendation of him when we started talking about immaterial theurgy possibly being more arithmological in a Pythagorean sense. Loved the video! Keep up the good work!
I am definitely going to have to rewatch this one and follow up on some of the references, fascinating but definitely had some prereqs that I did not have!
How does this compare, in your opinion, to the tantric practices involving transformation into the diety, yidam, etc., in Nyingma and Bön? I’d love to hear your thoughts!
To me personally, deity Yoga of Tibet and higher Vajrayana tantric practices are almost synonymous with western theurgy via Iamblichus and early Hermetica, maybe not necessarily in style but more in intent. Although various tantric systems in theory, like Kashmiri Shaivism, Aghorism, even post-hermetic Thelema have this god-working, theurgical focus instead of practical sorcery and all of them share the idea of imitation of gods and supreme principles and identifying with them not just in ritual but in waking consciousness aka self-deification.
There's a theological school called _radical orthodoxy_ originating from the Anglican Church that uses the concept of theurgy in this very sacramental sense. I like that.
Its from old esoteric drawings like those depicted in your thumbnail that ooened up my brain to neural networks and their resemblances to other networks in society and nature.
Hears "Greater" and "Lesser" Harmonies, points in DiCaprio gif meme! Plato and Aristotle!! I know of Iamblichus to do with historical magic practice! How cool!
One of my teachers used to say about Neo-platonists & Plato . ' It's as if we would call someone like Einstein a Neo- Newtonian, because Einstein's work wouldn't exist without Newton ground work ' . I always liked the tension within that comparison.
Thanks for the lecture! It’s a great springboard into a fascinating topic! I have a potential nuance and clarifying questions regarding the mentioned relation between theurgy and Catholic ritual. The church claims two related yet distinct operations: Sacraments are symbols effecting substantial change, e.g. baptism incorporates initiates into the mystical body of Christ, and Eucharistic bread is bread no more but the body of Jesus with concomitant divinity. These admitted mysteries - read: philosophically indefensible claims - require divine action beyond normal cosmic function and human logic. Sacramentals are symbols - items or devotions - used to encourage a good disposition, better receptivity of grace or influence. By this description, holy water, medals, para-liturgical blessings, and the like aren't items or actions causing change themselves, no matter the magical format. If I read him right, Iamblichus describes theurgy as a symbolic item or ritual acting as a locus for an unaltered, immaterial entity’s constant activity. These rites allow devotees easy assent to the entity’s mantle through affecting the human’s state. Even effects such as transformed sacrifices, statue animation, levitation, or visions are effected sympathetic loci rather than substantial changes. This seems closer to Catholic sacramentals than sacraments. Is this summary accurate to what Iamblichus describes? Further, given the distinction above, would you say theurgy is closest to a sacrament, a sacramental, or something straddling the two?
Valentin Tomberg, a convert to Catholicism from Anthrosophy through Orthodoxy, explicitly describes Christianity as theurgy and the Christian as magus in Meditations on the Tarot.
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This is a really good video. It's a difficult subject to describe, but as usual, you presented it well.
I am digging your channel. Very Groovy.
"Symphony of Being"
Somehow i get Legion (the multi demon possessing that poor bastard in the levant) vibes.
Like it's Legion's limit break when boss battling Josh.
I am the girl with the triangle in the Symphony. Thank you for your content. It is such a joy to hear these topics being spoken and you do so well. I love your jokes btw, keep them coming.
The more I learn, the more I get confused due to endless information.
Because now you know what you don't know, which makes you wise. Plato 😊
Because now you know what you don't know, which makes you wise. Plato 😊
Because now you know, what you dont know, which makes you wise. Plato 😁
Because now you know wh… oh three ppl already said this…. Hmmmm
Such is the path of the wise man
You are a boundless book of knowledge, and you as a person are such a kind soul. An amazing and humble teacher.
The coolest professor that ever lived. 😎
I was trained in kabbalistic practice in orthodox Jewish yeshivas, and I am struck by the similarities between what I was taught and practiced and Iamblachus's philosophy, except utilizing Torah as the sacred text. I did not fully appreciate the connection between the rabbinic kabbalistic tradition and neoplatonism until your channel, thank you. The only separation between much of the Jewish and surrounding traditions is what is scripture and the intellectual lineages, although the rabbis do not often credit Greek philosophers. I appreciate learning about it now to know what I don't want to be. Sublimation is for posers.
I’m curious about the possibility that Jewish and Christian ideas of worship actually influenced the Platonists. I don’t agree that the theurgy of Iamblichus survives in Christian liturgy. Writings in the New Testament about the Eucharist and sacrifices and sacrifice in the Hebrew Scriptures suggest a tradition that a Hellenistic would describe as theurgy. It may be that Christian Eucharistic ideas were adopted by Platonists. It may be that these cultures shared a theurgic worldview. It’s worth a thought.
It's the other way around. At least one historian of Kabbalah, Moshe Idel, pretty clearly shows that Kabbalaists adopted the Neoplatonic framework, almost in toto. The theory of emanationism is obviously pertinent. The Christians wither stole or adapted many Neoplatonic ideas. Why do we think the major Neoplatonic texts are missing? They rooted them out and burned them.@@colum6
i am amazed by the preparation people go through to achieve this, yet some of us are going through the information gathering trying to piece together the phenomena taking place. there is truth in all religions when i compare to my experience.
@colum6 even if christian eucharistic practice influenced later, neoplatonic theurgy, that eucharistic practice in theology was adopted from the Dionysian Mysteries. And there is a clear intellectual shame of transmission from dionysian cult, to orphism, to pythagoreanism, to platonism.
Thanks 😊
I bought the women’s cut black metal Esoterica shirt
I gotta say
It is pretty boss
wonderful!
This Lamblichus vs Neoplatonism debate also echoes in Jewish circles. Consider Maimonides vs. Kuzri & and the Kaballists, on if commandments are just educational and nominal or also have an effect in higher plains.
As a Hellenic pagan I've really wanted to learn more about theurgy, so thanks for this quality content!
Theurgy is a good framework regardless of the type of pagan you are. May the Gods and your ancestors bless you! 🙏👐
@@arielfelts9111 Well said
Why is Hellenistic Paganism growing so much lately?
I keep running into them on the internet all over the place lately..
@@mysteriousjungalist well attested. Especially in terms of actual prayers and hymns and usable stuff.
@@mysteriousjungalist really easy to just grab the orphic hymns and pick one to recite and offer the listed incense. Or pray a homeric hymn, Or one of the many other hymns and prayers and prayer formulas attested in Hellenic sources, and pour a libation. It's laid out for you in a way thats easy to grasp and had deap roots. Vs something like Norse Heathenry which will require more reconstruction borrowing and innovation to make s complete ritual.
Phenomenal. This one actually helped me to categorize and understand a lot of my own personal history, changes between different perspectives and uncommon personal experiences. I think that means I am a fan of both Iamblichus and of Esoterica, without which my understanding of Iamblichus would still be pretty hazy
I’ve been wanting a video like this about Iamblichus for a while and you definitely delivered!! I noticed a lot of parallels with certain schools of Vedanta, especially Vasistha Advaita. The Noetic Theurgy reminds me of jnana yoga and the ritual Theurgy reminds me of the teachings of Shankaracharya. The idea that the offerings become transformed into something more divine is also paralleled in the ideas of prasad in Hinduism. Awesome video!
Shankara would be the last person to teach ritual as a way to enlightenment; there is no action or karma you can perform that can give you permanent freedom since all effects are limited. I don't recall what text it is in but I know he says, verbatim ''he who worships another beyond himself becomes the plaything of the Gods''.
This was definitely high level stuff, but I found it very accessible. I’m not very knowledgeable with the technical side of all this, but this makes perfect sense to me on a spiritual level. I’d argue there is a unique value in learning from content like this from a scholar on the internet. It’s the closest thing I’ll experience to the ancient lectures. And that experience it invaluable for understanding the heart of the philosophy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
*Takes notes* This is terrifically useful for a book I'm writing (fantasy, as ever). Accessible, accurate, content concerning classic Hellenic religious practice is gold dust. Thanks for your help, Dr. Sledge!
Thanks!
Best channel of its type on UA-cam
I had to rewatch the first 10 minutes of your video after deciding which T-Shirt to get. But this is fine, rewatching your videos is one of my favourite things to do. Thanks again!
This is wonderful. Thank you, sincerely, for the time you've invested into learning the material, learning to explain it well, and sharing it freely. I learned a tremendous amount from this lecture.
Such fascinating history renews my hope for a continuity of existence in which I have more time to read books. This life isn't going to be sufficient to satisfy all my curiosities.
Appreciations for this pithy overview! Even though Iamblichus' cosmology differs significantly from that of the nondual Shaivism to which I am accustomed, I readily sympathize with (1) the heartfelt aspirations towards the Divine Source Consciousness, (2) reliance on divine grace, which we would call "śaktipāta", (3) conscious participation in the divine work, (4) the value of devotional-contemplative ritual, (5) the recognition of esoteric "correspondences", and (6) the prospect of unitive spiritual experience.
are you speaking of conscious participating in the divine work in the astral realm or the physical, or both, if both, do you find that awareness shifts from depths to shallows in the dream, theatrical and astral spheres
Thank you for this. This is another one that I need to watch a few times.
Fantastic, I knew this would be a banger. I don't think Julian required quotes around The Apostate, he's pretty stoked about his turn away from Christianity towards what he'd frame as a Iamblichan Platonism with emphasis on the Hellenic qualities of it, being quite the Hellenophile. I think what was going on in Julian's mind was a fair bit more complicated, and garbled (no offense to the man), than the institution of a rival entity to Christianity as it had congealed by the 4th Century, there's an excellent work called "Julian's Gods: Religion and Philosophy in the Thought and Action of Julian the Apostate", the author really tries to get into the context Julian was writing and thinking in, and also humanizes what he was up to as well, as we are people and not truly detached intellectual agents. It's fairly technical and the author will quote scholarship done in French verbatim so it can be a bit tedious if you're not a Francophone and it definitely expects you to have a vague idea at bare minimum of Neoplatonic thought and the philosophical climate of Late Antiquity. He's an absolutely fascinating character and worth the attention of any scholar.
I just find it curious how Dr. Sledge openly speaks of Sabbatai Zevi and Elisha ben Abuyah as heretics, apostates and such, but for Julian he uses quotes. Interesting.
This is one of my favorite videos because it taught me so much about a subject I was ignorant of. I’m used to only theurgy being named dropped. The contranatural perception of Sorcery makes sense as well as not being flashy with over use of Theurgy. Fantastic again Doc Sledge. Again the further reading section is indispensable for us layman who are curious!
your writing and pacing are amazing. the content is mindblowing. thank you, and peace.
This channel has truly opened a world of wonder for me.
I'm so glad you've a great sense of humour.
Another great video!
Thank you, so much; it is such a privilege to ride the coattails of your life's pursuit :)
A longtime listener, I only recently actually watched and there is no going back to audio only because you are HILARIOUS.
I like the phrase "ontological registers."
Yeeessssss! I've been waiting for something on Iamblichus since RfB mentioned this channel.
Iamblichus is fascinating; he seemed to have been going for a "Grand Unified Theory of Paganism"
Wonderful, just yesterday was looking for more information about theurgy :) thank you!
Triangle players must love you for acknowledging their great musical contribution. 🥹
Sledge, you are a wonder. many thanks.
Thanks for this! I’ve been learning a lot about Catholicism and am coming to see the deep esoteric undergirding of Christianity. Makes me feel like our culture has such an impotent concept of spirituality. I wonder to what extent the laymen understood these concepts in their day and what happened for it to get so watered down. I’d love to understand more of what you said
a video on medieval folk spirituality would be sick.
@@RackTomRememberance particularly on how it affected modern day stuff would be fascinating
You could put your efforts into longevity like the Daoist magicians and still have gone thru less that 1% of the material rituals from world traditions - everyday it feels like its always just over the next hill doesn't it?
Or you could stop playing with the pebbles on the beach (alchemist deathbed quote) and switch tack, let go of self, and accept answers when you need them from the H.S.
Very simply there is no need to understand it. We have moved beyond the need for it.
@@Haverlock Is that "the Royal we" your highness?
Or are you the planetary spokesperson now? Was there a show of hands? that not exactly fair on the internet 😢
I am so blessed that you spend your time holding good posture and giving this content
Thanks! keep it up :)
Wow teaching is all I can say Dr. You cleared much opacity in Plato/Neo-Platonism for me in short time. And now I'm left wanting more Theurgy. Again, gratitude for the nuance, pace and great reading list. You took us as close to the doorway to the Divine as words can go. Now to turn inward through that doorway, and let theurgy be. Thank you for being the vehicle, Dr. Sledge. In light and truth
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Really enjoy these spiritual examinations and multiple philosophies about a possible afterlife. Now if I can find guidance on my finances and relationships I'll have heaven on earth
Just received my order with the coolest shirt ever Wooooooo Thank You !!
How serendipitous that *this* happened to be your most recent video as I'm finishing my reading of Wallis' Neoplatonism. Excellent video, as always!
Thank you for your insightful explanation Justin. Love Esoterica, keep up the good work!
I was just about to say how much I'd love to see you having a conversation with John Vervaeke, got a strange feeling come over me, so went to find it and have discovered you already have! Awesome.
I love this channel so very much. I mean honestly, the quality of it all is rather astounding. I've honestly been inspired to finally pursue this as a career and started school back up again.
Finding a repeatable and consistent feasible method for achieving Gnosis and/or Henosis would be idyllic. Those fleeting epiphanies do seem dependent on the willingness and/or grace of God's particular emanations....will they make an influential appearance or not?
Any episode on the Epiphanes? Probably not soon, but they are worth reading, for sure.
@@mouwersor Psychedelics will do that whether you want them to or not, I think what people are hoping for is a route that isn't perceived as a shortcut and beyond the realm of alternative explanation.
@@mouwersorI enthusiastically co-sign this advice as an individual currently receiving wisdom of the golden teacher 😂
This reminds me...I need new jeans. No, but this is seriously the episode I have been waiting for since I discovered your channel. These Neoplatonism collaborations have been a dream. Excellent video.
Great episode. Thanks for the intro to the topic. I'm adding these recommended books onto my list!
I feel blessed that I've found Esoterica. From my limited experience of study, Dr. Sledge, expresses opinions that ring true to what my net has caught. And it's so encouraging, to feel like what I've caught, has me on a path of enlightenment. Thank you❣️
Thank you again, Dr. Sledge. You condense a great deal of knowledge to its key points both effectively and entertainingly. I'd love to hear more from you on this topic in subsequent releases.
I remembered this episode and went back to it while reading "The Pagan Holy Man in Late Antique Society" by Garth Fowden. Goes very well together. Thanks!
A while ago I started reading the Shaw book and it was fascinating but I had to take a break... Thanks for this.
It’s kind of interesting how this same sort of back and forth that you see with Poryphry and Iamblichus can be seen in a lot of different cultures. For example, you can notice a somewhat similar dichotomy between Shankara and Ramanuja in Vedantic Philosophy, the latter tries to defend the validity of traditional religious ritual within the philosophical context of the former
❤ thank you!
This was SOLIDLY one of my favorite talks of yours. I love the way you showed multiple connections and denials giving themselves their own head-spin. Many giggles, thank you!
Banger episode, Justin. I can feel my XP going up. Speaking of which - the theology of the THAC0 war would be a fun 4/1 episode.
Love this channel!!!!❤❤❤❤❤
Yooooo thanks for this one bro
I think my mind was blown in a way that had clarity and to borrow your term, continuity, as well as resonance, so I was able to once again briefly point in DiCaprio meme gif at some points! Thank you greatly, Dr Justin Sledge! I felt my comprehension today at least had some kind of through-line to reach back and relate to independently even as all your content have excellent springboards for further reading, playlist, and review!
Thank you Doctor Justin Sledge,
You have made theurgy more understandable for me. Personally this information dense video required a bit of effort to take in this understanding of Iamblichus.
I've gotta say, not only EVEN as, but maybe ESPECIALLY as, a Catholic, I love the hot-takes on possible origins and relationships to other rituals of Catholic practice. Spiritual and religious practice is such a massive and integral part of human culture and history, and deserve careful scholarship, which your videos most substantively discuss, but the hot-takes are as effective a prophylaxis against unrestrained dogmatism as anything, and quicker to boot.
You should probably look into the Essenes and their Melkizedek-David traditions of bread and wine sacrifices.
Dr. Brant Pitre has written a very useful book entitled “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” on this subject.
Dr. John Bergsma wrote an incredible follow-up work entitled “Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls.”
The tiny jokes sprinkled throughout all of these videos are some of the best parts, and really help add some comic relief breaks from the heady and heady stuff being discussed -- bravo!
The infinite spiral of spiritual knowledge is vast. Big hello from MidTown Memphis. Go Tigers
Thank you for educating us. I'm not at all interested in esoterica, in the sense that I will do nothing to learn more. But these videos show me the worlds of ideas that our modern thought come from.
TL;DR Summary:
Yamblicus's philosophy emphasizes the importance of traditional cult practices and co-creative expression with the demiurgic gods in achieving gnosis and returning to the Divine world.
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Theorgy is a solution to the paradox of the gulf between our finitude and the Divine infinitude, achieved through complex rituals resulting in identity with the Divine itself.
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Yamblicus believed in returning to ancient sources of wisdom to correct innovations in Pythagorean, Platonic, and Aristotelian philosophy, while rejecting the idea of categories and breaking with his own Platonic inheritance.
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The soul can return to the Divine world by turning inward through philosophy, despite the limitations of matter and the somatic pessimism of Platonus and Porphyry, as Yamblicus emphasizes the religious dimension of devotional acts and co-creative expression with the demiurgic gods.
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Plato and his followers prioritized intellectualism and math over traditional cult practices, while Porphyry's arguments for vegetarianism were seen as an outrage to Helene ritual life.
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Recognizing the goodness and beauty of the cosmos through philosophy and ritual actions is necessary to become co-demiological with the gods, according to Yamlicus.
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Certain natural substances and intentional acts of devotion can activate spiritual purification and ascent back to the one, but sorcery is rejected due to its selfish nature.
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Noetic theory combines spirituality and intellect, exploring the emergence of being through the dialectic of opposites.
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Theory is necessary for achieving hinosis, with theology playing a crucial role, but Yamblicus's de mysterious requires advanced philosophy knowledge to fully understand.
A fascinating tour-de-force: thank you!
Thanks! I like how the Christians out pegan the pegans. 🤔🤣
Brilliant Scholar and Teacher - Thanks
You seem to have your finger on all sorts Of vocabulary I search...well done and thank you - I hope one day you are able to say exactly what is in your heart when the mood strikes you...fearlessly here on youtube
Hi, Doctor Sledge. Totally fascinated with this last video. I already had noticed that iamblichean perspective on theurgy was totally in line with the traditional catholic perspective on the sacraments. Though authors like Hadot and Uzdavinys would argue that philosophy, more than an intellectual effort is more of a practice and a way of life. Even our St. Bonaventure, following the exemplar of St. Francis of Assisi said that theology was the practical way for the sanctification (read deificatio) of the theologian, and that the basis of theology is prayer and devotion, not so much a systematic intellectual effort. Will you be doing a video on the theology of Saint (or pseudo, whatever) Dionysius the Areopagite? That would be awesome.
Ps. I have no problen with saying we outpaganed the pagans and that we beat them at the theurgy olympics. Maybe protestant-sola fide christians may feel unconfortable but... well, it is what it is, man.
I second the interest in Dionysus the Areopagite
I can't imagine a greater joy or more worthy project than learning how to fulfill the requirements of Henosis. This seems to me to be telos inlaid in the laws of nature, and the sacred function of the individual.
Thanks for this video. Very helpful. I've found Shaw's book very tough to get through, and I'm not dumb! :)
23:25 🤯🤯🤯...Had to pause...Rewind...and play again. Still sitting here mind blown. The chant of, "WHAT? Wait a minute, What?...Who?...When?..,(I get the Why?)...How? Especially, how...😊😊😊
Absolutely excellent, as always. Thank you.
I have a technical question regarding the attribution of elements to the four Archangels of the quarters. Agrippa in Occult Philosophy book II, Chap. VII has the attributions as follows: Michael (Fire), Gabriel (Water), Raphael (Air), and Uriel (Earth). The Zohar in various sections states exactly the opposite; Michael (Water), Gabriel (Fire), Uriel (Air), Raphael (Earth). Where did Agrippa get those particular correspondences from?
One of my favorite videos. I think you did a really good job of explaining this to someone like myself who doesn't already know a ton about it.
Thanks for posting your detailed overview of Iamblichus and Theurgy. I found it very insightful and helpful. A few comments: I found 'The Mysteries' to be tough reading primarily because of the bitter tone of the writing and argumentative dismissals of Porphyry's position. In contrast, when Plotinus critiques someone, or some view, he is very patient and presents their view in detail before going on to present his own analysis (I'm thinking of Aristotle's Categories). // I appreciate you mentioning animal sacrifice in the context of Theurgy; my impression is that Iamblichus was really angry at the mere suggestion that animal sacrifice could be done away with. From Iamblichus's point of view certain types of deities can only be contacted through animal sacrifice. What is striking to me is that Iamblichus never sees the sacrifice of animals from the perspective of the animal; I think that is because he lacks empathy (I'm probably exaggerating; as you can tell I favor Plotinus and Porphyry). // Overall my view is that the theurgic interpretation of Platonism unnecessarily complicates the system; that there is no 'problem' in the Platonism of Plotinus that is solved through theurgy. I see theurgy as an add-on, or injection, of perspectives and views that inherently distort, and therefore make more difficult, the return to the One, the Good, and the Beautiful. // Thanks again for a presentation that packs so much information into a mere 40 minutes. Much appreciated.
Amazing content as always thank you
Ah, so glad you did a video on this! I'll have to listen twice, probably. A couple of ideas:
I wonder if you'd consider making a video on Kenneth Grant and the Typhonian Tradition?
And, I wonder if you'd consider a video (or series?) on the "Simon Necronomicon?" I daresay you could do justice to such a complex issue as the "Schlangekraft Rescension."
YOU, SIR, ARE A BLESSING TO YOU TUBE!!! Thank you fellow wise man. 🤍✨
Thanks very much for your time and energy, sir. I found myself disagreeing with some of the elements earlier in the session about the the Hermetic/Phaedric/Gnostic pessimism of the body, but I did agree with the notion about the Eucharist as being a good example of theurgy in both thought, action, and embodiment. Thanks!
Love this channel!!
I’m down with this spiritual practice Dr. sledge. I’m going to get started tonight.
Shaws book is wonderful. I wonderrd if wed get a recommendation of him when we started talking about immaterial theurgy possibly being more arithmological in a Pythagorean sense. Loved the video! Keep up the good work!
I am definitely going to have to rewatch this one and follow up on some of the references, fascinating but definitely had some prereqs that I did not have!
How does this compare, in your opinion, to the tantric practices involving transformation into the diety, yidam, etc., in Nyingma and Bön? I’d love to hear your thoughts!
To me personally, deity Yoga of Tibet and higher Vajrayana tantric practices are almost synonymous with western theurgy via Iamblichus and early Hermetica, maybe not necessarily in style but more in intent. Although various tantric systems in theory, like Kashmiri Shaivism, Aghorism, even post-hermetic Thelema have this god-working, theurgical focus instead of practical sorcery and all of them share the idea of imitation of gods and supreme principles and identifying with them not just in ritual but in waking consciousness aka self-deification.
There's a theological school called _radical orthodoxy_ originating from the Anglican Church that uses the concept of theurgy in this very sacramental sense. I like that.
Quite possibly one of my favorite videos of yours, coming from a long time subscriber btw, been waiting for something like this.
Its from old esoteric drawings like those depicted in your thumbnail that ooened up my brain to neural networks and their resemblances to other networks in society and nature.
Thanks for the book recommendations at the end.
Wonderful!
"Welcome to Nominalism Corner ™️"
😂 thanks, it's great to be here!
Hears "Greater" and "Lesser" Harmonies, points in DiCaprio gif meme! Plato and Aristotle!! I know of Iamblichus to do with historical magic practice! How cool!
you saved me a mountain of time in trying to figure out what the spiritual end goal means for platonism
I attended a philosophy conference and wished every speaker was more like Dr. Sledge.
One of my teachers used to say about Neo-platonists & Plato . ' It's as if we would call someone like Einstein a Neo- Newtonian, because Einstein's work wouldn't exist without Newton ground work ' . I always liked the tension within that comparison.
I can see Iamblichas influence on Eastern Orthodox theology.
Thanks for the lecture! It’s a great springboard into a fascinating topic! I have a potential nuance and clarifying questions regarding the mentioned relation between theurgy and Catholic ritual.
The church claims two related yet distinct operations:
Sacraments are symbols effecting substantial change, e.g. baptism incorporates initiates into the mystical body of Christ, and Eucharistic bread is bread no more but the body of Jesus with concomitant divinity. These admitted mysteries - read: philosophically indefensible claims - require divine action beyond normal cosmic function and human logic.
Sacramentals are symbols - items or devotions - used to encourage a good disposition, better receptivity of grace or influence. By this description, holy water, medals, para-liturgical blessings, and the like aren't items or actions causing change themselves, no matter the magical format.
If I read him right, Iamblichus describes theurgy as a symbolic item or ritual acting as a locus for an unaltered, immaterial entity’s constant activity. These rites allow devotees easy assent to the entity’s mantle through affecting the human’s state. Even effects such as transformed sacrifices, statue animation, levitation, or visions are effected sympathetic loci rather than substantial changes.
This seems closer to Catholic sacramentals than sacraments.
Is this summary accurate to what Iamblichus describes? Further, given the distinction above, would you say theurgy is closest to a sacrament, a sacramental, or something straddling the two?
Hey doc you sound like youre getting sick.. please dont over do it. Youre friend CW..great episode btw.
Totally outstanding.
"Even the guy on the triangle matters' ha, good one. Thanks for the vid, wonderful stuff.
Well this is rather well timed......
Oh yeah?
@@TheEsotericaChannel for me at least
Valentin Tomberg, a convert to Catholicism from Anthrosophy through Orthodoxy, explicitly describes Christianity as theurgy and the Christian as magus in Meditations on the Tarot.