For those of you that can't read the description or listen to my points, I am arguing why military camos are overall MORE effective than hunting camouflages, if you want to use a hunting camo while hunting that's totally fine, but this video is mainly addressing why militaries would never use hunting camos due to the reasons I outline, if you make a really stupid argument I already covered in the video I'll probably just block you. :)
He said he will block someone if he tries to argue over things he already said and proven with actual facts, not any little argument. Instead, I'm pretty sure he would answer to any other question and get discussions over relevant things as he really cares about these kind of things. Unless what he said can be proven wrong, that should not be contested because misinformation hurts a lot.
Exactly that, with almost any video on UA-cam, not just mine, some from very professional channels you get loads of people that simply ignore the point of the video and start saying it's not a fair test/comparison whatever for various reasons. That gets really annoying when someone might actually have a point I had not considered but I don't see it because "HUNTING CAMO IS FOR DEER NOT MILITARY USE!"
Very cool video! I've made several camo tests and recently made a video on camo for beginners, but this discussion on how a camo pattern works is even better. Respect from Argentina.
Weaponsandstuff93 Love your camo videos. I’m an American camo nerd and I love the quality and look of the British DPM could you explain the British sizing ? I seem to find the shirts and smocks to fit tight in the shoulders and I’m not a big guy. 6’ 195#.
Knight-Sgt. Reyes It is indeed a trade-off. Either a camouflage that works in all terrains and is cost effective. Or camouflages for specific environments, more expensive but far superior. That’s why large armies usually standardize while smaller armies tend to specialize. All comes down to the money half the time.
Everyone knows that UCP is the best camouflage ever made. All the Army guys loved it because it was super effective and billions of dollars went into its research and development.
Conversely, hunting camouflage is designed to catch human money, not prey animals. I've seen tests in the sport channels and on various UA-cam videos. I agree with this.
Flecktarn and multicam are bad for deer hunting, because deer can't see all the colors used in these patterns. Also Multicam doesn't have macro patterns to deal with the blurry deer vision. So you are just a one color blob with human shape, easy to spot.
Because too much hunting camouflage now is to catch hunters money. To me, if I had to pick only a civilian pattern, I would choose that "duck hunting" pattern with the tan, covered in brown and black spots like a leopard frog. The one with no green. It works.
I haven’t hunted since the early 80’s. Open most hunting magazines back then and you’d see articles about how to eliminate the reflectiveness of your camo. Most often the advice given was to bury your clothes for 2-3 days prior to the hunt. The chemicals put into detergent to make our clothes all nice and bright get eliminated. Being buried changes the smell of your clothes as well. There were and may well still be laundry detergents that don’t have the color brightening chemicals in them as well.
You should have HEARD bowhunters I knew of and how particular they were about prepping their clothing for hunting season. It was all to be more invisible to the deers noses than their eyes.
When I worked and lived in Louisiana, there were guys who would find ways to purchase Army camouflage clothing from Fort Polk Louisiana because of how much better it was to the stuff hanging in Wal-Mart , John's Sporting goods, and so forth.
An addition to your point about the hunting camo working really good against a particular tree, since their target market is really specific they're not only focusing on a particular terrain of woodland, but also they're making their camo even more terrain specific by focusing on the hunting season months. Just super specialised and not great at movement, different terrains or anything else than sitting still in a hide, but better than nothing. Another advantage of military camo is you can also get older camo for dirt cheap from surplus stores, why pay the premium for Mossy Oak when you can get a DPM smock for a tenth of the price?
When I hunt I'm typically against a tree, resting for turkeys or stand for deer/bear. there is no way you can convince me that military camoflauge is harder to see than Mossy Oak Bottomland or Realtree Timber. maybe if you are laying on the ground some military camo is better, but that's not where I'm going to try and disguise myself. The only exception to military looking better than hunting in my opinion is the development of the ghillie/leafy suit which I use for hunting
An old vet shared a story, that before patrol, the O/D green uniform days. They would jump till your euck and belt made no noise, then drop &roll in dirt to blend a bit. If you came from R&R and smelled like the corner drug store, a scrub was in order. Sight and smell discipline against the VC was your friend in the early days overseas. Then of course later, camo was issued and you know the rest....
MTP > DPM . I’ll admit that I’m extremely biased because it’s all I’ve used (aside from waterproofs) and I’ll admit DPM is probably better in most forest environments but Im still a MTP supremacist. The future is now old man !
I had a deer walk towards me while wearing DPM trousers, like I was some kind of weird bush or something to it, I thought it had rabies or something by the way it just walked directly towards me.
What a great deal of bow hunters figured out years ago is that most camo looks great up close. Go back 50 meters or 100 meters and you end up with a dark blob, because all colors or patterns run together. That was why camo with wide patterns breaks up the "human form". I'll add I remember being on an archery forum and a hunter took various patterns and photographed them black and white or Sepia (brown white) and surprising wide print plaid flannels and a Hawaiian shirt did really well breaking up human form. Maybe great grandpa in his flannel with the old 30-30 was on to something :)
You are correct, Ronald Ayres. Movement and sound will give alert deer and humans alike. I was once walking in the woods, wearing a M81 woodland jacket and hat, withblack pants. I saw my map reading course group on my right, I hit behind a small bush and stayed motionless, low and silent. 10 minutes later we met again and I asked them weather they saw me or not? You can guess the answer: No, they did not see me.
I use a pretty thick hunting jacket during the winter, as opposed to my regular one, it belonged to a friend of my dad, its mostly reed style camo good for waterfowl but can also work well in forest/woodland areas, it's also a double piece system, 2 jackets in 1 with 1 acting as extra padding, even has pockets for your shotguns shells,
I live in America. I love Auscam it's my favorite of all time, but I can't find any in my size anywhere, I've been looking for about 3 year's. But by far my fav.
Civilian camo and multicam : Paying big money for brand new hypercomplicated patterns with fadded colors right out of the box... No thanks. I'll keep using the PRINCIPLES of camouflage with strong-durable civilian clothing & accessories, mixing them and using assymmetry, plus adding some paint and fake leaf/straw here and there. And make/use a dozen lightweight camo capes/'blankets' for specific time and places. People will buy anything... Nice vid. And DPM is the best out of the box woodland camo. From a french guy. _
As a Norwegian I am contractually obligated to promote Norkamo as the best woodland camo. As an airsofter I'm damn sure it really is too, at least in Norwegian woodlands. Basically, Norwegian camo is just big splotches of olive green, a darker green, and coyote brown. What that does in effect is you blend in with moss, roots and pine needles. Instead of having a disruptive pattern the idea is that the pattern will be disrupted by shadows being cast on the wearer. It's highly specialised for Norwegian flora, but seeing as the Norwegian name for the military translates simply as the 'defense', that's probably just fine.
@@odinlindeberg4624 It pretty good looking in this Americans opinion, old American tricolor woodland, marpat and multicam for me! Oh and flecktarn for hunting.
What’s better than hunting or military camo. Spray painting a flannel jacket green and brown, covering it in dirt and interlopping it with twigs grass and reeds. Works great for places like Seattle or Canada!
I thought that was really interesting about the infra red on hunting camo so they can find someone lost in the woods. That's kind of why militaries in conflicts with enemies who don't have or didn't have night vision would use ir patches like the cats eyes that came with my pasgt helmet.
Good video. Makes sense why a military wouldn’t use hunting camouflage, but on the subject of individuals, it really varies on what or why they’d choose a camo over another. And at that point it isn’t really worth a discussion since you’re talking of why militaries choose this over hunting camouflage. But I wanna toss in my 2 cents, M81 woodland for where I live in spring and summer. But when it’s fall there is no green. So some hunting patterns actually fit perfectly if I wanna hunt and stay still. If I need to move a lot more in the woods I live in...which is really stupid to run in the woods, but I’d probably want something with a stripped pattern of sorts.
Well the thing is hunters are not really moving around a lot usually is your hunting in one area you kind of stay there for the rest of your life so having a camera that goes good in your neck of the woods is the best
I find realtree long pants phenomenal in the Australian dry environment - with faded browns and greens. And the silvers and greys of the branches work great in the intense australian light. My wife can take a picture of me and it's incredibly difficult (if not impossible) when later viewing the pic to work out where my legs actually are.
Military camouflage is more effective in meeting military needs, than hunting camouflage which is not designed to meet military needs. Wow, a revelation. Spot on about camouflage being designed to look cool and entice people into buying it. That is very true. Also spot on about mimicry camouflage vs. disruptive camouflage...though especially in recent times a lot of the higher end hunting camouflage is based on disruptive patterns, not mimicry like Mossy Oak or Realtree. Great point at the end about many prey animals having significantly different vision than humans. For example, a red and black checkered flannel is excellent camouflage when looked at by a deer (being a dichromat) but not a human (being a trichromat). What it really all comes down to is your needs, different camos will meet different needs to different degrees.
I've got some M05 pants, it's amazing camo, fantastic in lush woodland or any conifer forest. The brown is especially a really good earth tone from what I've seen when wearing it. I find MultiCam/MTP works best in the more mountainous moorland with grasses, threw my MultiCam bag down on the ground in Snowdonia and it blended so well.
I wear British military pattern camos, I've got some of the prototype ones for future tours that haven't been released yet as well. Like the prototype hydrophobic swamp camo with no pockets.
They are not released, nobody has been issued with them as of yet, I will wear them during my next youtube video and then send you a link of the video. :)
Hey mate, I just did some searching, I found the ones I was talking about, they are released as of last year. My friend who is a vet used to own an Army surplus store in Essex, sadly he had to shut down his shop this year, and he sold a load of unreleased items for cheap. That's where I got them from, but the ones I own don't have tags inside so you can't read the pattern, or ID them in any way. But apparently they were released under the name "Gore Tex" So now I finally know what they are called, here is a link to the jacket, I have the trousers and under garments as well. forcesuniformandkit.co.uk/products/british-army-gore-tex-jacket-mtp-lightweight?variant=10302740865 British Army Gore-Tex Jacket - Lightweight MTP Camo The woodland hooded camo you are wearing in this video is the snipers jacket with the adjustable wire threaded hood right? I have that one, and is my go to jacket when I hunt.
Cool given you a sub, the goretex jacket though seems to just be an updated one for MTP, like how I have the older 95 DPM goretex coat, regardless sounds interesting, will watch out for your video but give me a shout anyway when the videos up in case I miss it.
Lots of research went into the trials that preceded UCP, then they declared one of the lesser performing camos the winner and then made UCP with different colours and design to the winning pattern. They essentially did all the research and then threw it away.
that was a joke lol. but I mean I've seen pictures of quite a few Iraqis and Syrians rocking the realtree and while it makes me wince, I mean if you're stuck in a situation where you don't have genuine camouflage and it's that or wearing a bright red sports jersey (which I've seen too) and you're dealing with an enemy who has limited supply/access to NVGs I'd take that. Of course any force that can procure real purpose-designed human camo should do that as soon as it has a chance.
where should i go to identify a filter. I got a coffee can filter about 6 inches tall with very few markings on it (XI-90-16) is one of them. the other is (БКФ). any info on this filter would be much appreciated.
Not to mention buying a shirt, pair of pants, balaclava, and other hunting camo gear could potentially cost you over $100. I can get Army surplus gear for much cheaper.
Yeah in the UK you can sometimes buy unissued British MTP for about £10 a piece, so a full set for £20-30. Older 95 DPM can often be bought even cheaper, very effective camos although British uniforms tend to be a little easy to rip.
Same here in the US. A lot of guys sell their extra uniforms for dirt cheap. Once I got a pair of unissued Crye multicam pants with the knee pad inserts for $20 at my local surplus store. With a bit of searching, one can find almost any piece of gear for a good price.
An important point. Humans have exellent eyesight, especially compared to *most* woodland game. If it can fool a human eye, it will most likely fool a deer, grouse, or bear. Turkeys are difficult to fool, however.
2 reasons I prefer military camo. 1. Every military makes it for their own landscape. What works in the Rockies is not the same as what works in Germany or in Ireland or in Australia. There’s a big selection to choose from. 2. You can buy it again fraction of the cost. If you paid €50 for army surplus flecktarn goretex, you don’t mind lying in the mud in it like if you paid €300 for the same thing in Mossy Oak.
Nice video. What any camo pattern cannot do is remove the “sixth sense”, the intuitive, gut instincts “hair up on the back of your neck” of a highly sensitive, experienced, well trained point man on a patrol. I have a friend who was with SF in the 70’s. He was trained to “pull his vibe in” for a lack of a better way of explaining the technique. To get an idea of what that is, consider it’s opposite: it’s Friday night, your getting ready to go out with your buddies to hopefully meet some ladies. You’re pumped and ready for fun. That’s your vibe booming outwardly. Stealth is exactly the opposite in terms of mental chatter and emotional vibration. “Someone” he was told/trained, “should be able to walk right up to you and piss on your head without knowing you are even there”. Yes camo helps as well as g-suits, but some point men aren’t fooled by either.
You are correct, Vajra. That is why elite forces are trained NOT to look at their enemies for a long time, because people feel that they are being watched. That is that sixth sense you were talking about.
I agree with your points, except about the R & D... because R & D went into the worst camo ever produced, the Universal Camoflage Pattern, which was rather quickly scrapped!, so, there's your R & D right there.
ok. i have the video paused at 5 seconds. im going to guess that the superiority of the camo has something to do with patterns and photon scattering to cause the illusion of being part of the surrounding environment. id like to hear what you have to say here.any way, pressing play now
I just prefer hunting camo based on my personality mal experiences with relatree camo. It’s been extremely effective in woods and cornfields which there are a lot of where I live
It must be darker in the UK then here in Canada I have both sets well three cadpat dpm and marpat I prefer marpat cause hell apart from full summer it's very brown here
It's dark in woodland here, especially when it's dull weather and it's raining or recently rained, I've found MultiCam works better for grassland, farmland and heath in the UK, like Dartmoor, Snowdonia and the Peak District where it's all open with few trees.
Kinda of an off topic question, but where did you get yoir polish fp5 filters, I've tried to get them on ebay but the shipping is too expensive for my country.
Wehraboo Waifu Well the point of the video is arguing against people who want the armed forces using hunting camo. A solid color is not as disruptive as disruptive camo
Weaponsandstuff93 do you have any thoughts on wide EM wavelength range active camoflouge research and the impact of such a technology's use in the field? do you think this technology would be best utilized to conceal base locations, individual foot soldiers, larger infantry units, or vehicles? i understand the mechanism is important to the function.
you missed the second major point: You can actually find all the gear you need in military camos, good luck finding a proper medical pouch or plate carrier in kryptek whatever
I wouldn't say in all places it is but in my area MARINE WOODLAND CAMO is literally PERFECT I'm in Mississippi and it matches so perfectly that's what the Mississippi state millitia uses aswell
Military Camouflage and Civilian Hunter Camouflage comes down to one word: Purpose. Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen, Coasties and Spacemen wear Military Camouflage to break up the outline of the Warfighter wearing the Uniform in Action and Active Combat Operations. Civilian Camouflage does not have Infrared properties and give off the image of the wearer in a forest and woodland environment.
I would take UCP over hunting camo too. UCP actually works pretty well in rocky and urban environments, and deals with the IR pretty well too. And if your UCP gets dirty and worn enough, it ends up being somewhat decent in areas with more vegetation. In a lot of pictures I've seen showing how bad UCP is, it's often a crisp, clean uniform. Where in reality, a soldier deployed to Afghanistan wouldn't have a uniform looking that nice.
I saw a funny picture recently either from Iraq or Afghanistan, two US soldiers wearing UCP, one had a very new clean looking uniform and the others was dirty, the guy with the dirty camo actually blended in well, the other guy stood out. So yeah dirty UCP works really well.
I've used a UCP a few times at my local airsoft field and it's honestly not a terrible camo once it's worn in. It's just God awful when it's brand new.
What's your opinion on the usefulness of black in camo patterns? I think it has its function even though it's not a "natural" color. A video about this topic would be really interesting!
I covered that a lot during my video about camo for night use. Black is mostly phased out of modern camouflages with good reason, black very rarely occurs in flora or landscapes, it's meant to shadow camos but doesn't actually work.
Just wear regular camo pattern a night. But tan lits up at night, so M81 woodland and British DPM are not my favorite. Flecktarn and Olive Green are my favorite colours.
No, multicam was designed to be used in both desert and forest, like a jack of all trades. So multicam never excell in one enviroment, but give sufficient results in all enviroment. The reason why the US Army and Air Force adopted it is reducing costs, so they do not have to purchase woodland and desert uniforms at the same time. Also in Afghanistan a patrol would face 4 enviroments in 1 day: mountain, desert, forest in a valley with a river and urban, a village. So multicam was very usefull overthere.
Hunting camo is made to work in a particular environment. Military camo is generic.If you are wearing green camo in a tan corn field, you will stand out like a turd in a punch bowl. Happened to me. There is the only advantage to someone sitting in a certain tree with matching camo to that tree. Military camo is great! If you want to hide from IR signature. There is a ton of R&D in military camo. What ink won’t fade. IR signator of cloth and ink. Not to mention durability. Spot on video.
@@Weaponsandstuff93, who is arguing for hunting camo to be adopted by any military? It's not something I've ever come across, and I didn't know there were enough people who actually seriously suggested it to warrant a video response.
Great video. Just a bit of useless info, military camouflage tends to reflect infrared light extremely well when you starch it... Probably why the american military stopped starching their uniforms.
You do realise the reason the civilian camo shows up and the military doesn't in an infrared, nods etc is the materials used to produce the DPM, nothing to do with the pattern. I also challenge you to do a comparison between DPM and the correct cam to match the environment to see which stands out more, the DPM loses every time. From a distance it looks dark doesnt blend in, unless the environment is a perfect match.
Biggest difference between hunting camo vs. military camo? Hunting camo is designed to hide one from animals. Military camo is designed to hide one from people. Choose wisely.
I wholeheartedly agree with this video. I will never wear hunting camo to my Milsims because its really about looking cool and fooling animals not humans. I tend to wear Multicam, Russian DigiFlora, and Japanese Type II
Glad you listened to the video, had a lot of people yell at me already that realtree is great for hunting when that was not what I was talking about in the video.
in Hunting camo Greys and Browns Always dominate - there is almost no green in it, because bowhunting Season starts in fall and Ends in spring. Military has very often much better break up and much more green in it
talking from a civilian point, alot of people are larpers and want a camo because it "looks" cool. ill stick with mossy oak bottomland, which is basically east german rain camo with some green splotches. looks more military than hunting camo.
Well hunting camo is made for the right environment and is designed for the happy camper, the military one is more 1 size fits all but in the right scenario hunting camo will beat it. (hunting camo is 1 trick pony)
Now in a scenario where you are camouflaging yourself from humans your argument is very valid, though i’d like to make some points about the leaf/branch based hunting patterns. Patterns like Mossy Oak and Real Tree are designed to fool the eyes of Deer, not Humans. Growing up in the sticks and hunting you learn that Deer have a very different view of the physical world, due to the difference in the position of their eyes and their colorblindness. Because of this, while wearing many (not all) normal camo patterns we use in our militaries, we are actually more visible to them due to the shape and colors. Hunting camo is designed primarily for whitetail deer hunters and really shouldnt be used at all in a combat scenario, just as you said with its reflective nature for search and rescue. Overall you’re correct, just wanted to throw in that little tid bit.
No worries but I'm mostly talking about for military/survival type usage, which maybe I wasn't clear enough about as lots of people have told me just how good hunting camos are for hunting.
Around here, we call it Mall Camo,. as opposed to hunting camo... It's Tactikool, As EVERYONE who has EVER hunted and been forced to wear BLAZE ORANGE all over virtually every square inch knows. The Critters don't care!
For those of you that can't read the description or listen to my points, I am arguing why military camos are overall MORE effective than hunting camouflages, if you want to use a hunting camo while hunting that's totally fine, but this video is mainly addressing why militaries would never use hunting camos due to the reasons I outline, if you make a really stupid argument I already covered in the video I'll probably just block you. :)
He said he will block someone if he tries to argue over things he already said and proven with actual facts, not any little argument. Instead, I'm pretty sure he would answer to any other question and get discussions over relevant things as he really cares about these kind of things. Unless what he said can be proven wrong, that should not be contested because misinformation hurts a lot.
Exactly that, with almost any video on UA-cam, not just mine, some from very professional channels you get loads of people that simply ignore the point of the video and start saying it's not a fair test/comparison whatever for various reasons. That gets really annoying when someone might actually have a point I had not considered but I don't see it because "HUNTING CAMO IS FOR DEER NOT MILITARY USE!"
Very cool video! I've made several camo tests and recently made a video on camo for beginners, but this discussion on how a camo pattern works is even better. Respect from Argentina.
Weaponsandstuff93 Love your camo videos. I’m an American camo nerd and I love the quality and look of the British DPM could you explain the British sizing ? I seem to find the shirts and smocks to fit tight in the shoulders and I’m not a big guy. 6’ 195#.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Chinese Air force with their blue, grey and black pattern camo:
Did somebody say that UCP is the worst?
Blue would actually work better in the dark than grey.
Knight-Sgt. Reyes It is indeed a trade-off. Either a camouflage that works in all terrains and is cost effective. Or camouflages for specific environments, more expensive but far superior. That’s why large armies usually standardize while smaller armies tend to specialize. All comes down to the money half the time.
Its not meant to hide people, its meant to hide stains
I use multicam and im not even special forces, im just a cav scout
@@Weaponsandstuff93 Night time desert camo is a shade of green
Everyone knows that UCP is the best camouflage ever made. All the Army guys loved it because it was super effective and billions of dollars went into its research and development.
Conversely, hunting camouflage is designed to catch human money, not prey animals. I've seen tests in the sport channels and on various UA-cam videos. I agree with this.
UCP is excellent if you dye it :P
Ucp was so good all the soldiers gave away the ucp to spread the liver for it
@@matthewdennis1739Olive green rit dye and walnut for the win
@@G36C-556 Apple green and walnut works well for vegetated areas.
DPM represent 👍👌🏼😎
DPM Was quite nice! I really like how they designed it! Awesome camo!
I have always disliked hunting camo. I wear flecktarn and multicam when hunting deer. For turkeys I break out the ghillie suit.
Jooglesberry I ware my military camo hunting
Flecktarn and multicam are bad for deer hunting, because deer can't see all the colors used in these patterns. Also Multicam doesn't have macro patterns to deal with the blurry deer vision. So you are just a one color blob with human shape, easy to spot.
@@daromirfirunsson good point 🤔
Is the DPM better? Any suggestions?
Flektard
Because too much hunting camouflage now is to catch hunters money. To me, if I had to pick only a civilian pattern, I would choose that "duck hunting" pattern with the tan, covered in brown and black spots like a leopard frog. The one with no green. It works.
I haven’t hunted since the early 80’s. Open most hunting magazines back then and you’d see articles about how to eliminate the reflectiveness of your camo. Most often the advice given was to bury your clothes for 2-3 days prior to the hunt. The chemicals put into detergent to make our clothes all nice and bright get eliminated. Being buried changes the smell of your clothes as well. There were and may well still be laundry detergents that don’t have the color brightening chemicals in them as well.
You should have HEARD bowhunters I knew of and how particular they were about prepping their clothing for hunting season. It was all to be more invisible to the deers noses than their eyes.
When I worked and lived in Louisiana, there were guys who would find ways to purchase Army camouflage clothing from Fort Polk Louisiana because of how much better it was to the stuff hanging in Wal-Mart , John's Sporting goods, and so forth.
An addition to your point about the hunting camo working really good against a particular tree, since their target market is really specific they're not only focusing on a particular terrain of woodland, but also they're making their camo even more terrain specific by focusing on the hunting season months.
Just super specialised and not great at movement, different terrains or anything else than sitting still in a hide, but better than nothing.
Another advantage of military camo is you can also get older camo for dirt cheap from surplus stores, why pay the premium for Mossy Oak when you can get a DPM smock for a tenth of the price?
When I hunt I'm typically against a tree, resting for turkeys or stand for deer/bear. there is no way you can convince me that military camoflauge is harder to see than Mossy Oak Bottomland or Realtree Timber. maybe if you are laying on the ground some military camo is better, but that's not where I'm going to try and disguise myself. The only exception to military looking better than hunting in my opinion is the development of the ghillie/leafy suit which I use for hunting
Different camos for different needs. It's really as simple as that.
Try flecktarn
An old vet shared a story, that before patrol, the O/D green uniform days. They would jump till your euck and belt made no noise, then drop &roll in dirt to blend a bit. If you came from R&R and smelled like the corner drug store, a scrub was in order. Sight and smell discipline against the VC was your friend in the early days overseas. Then of course later, camo was issued and you know the rest....
Interesting
DPM master race!
MTP > DPM . I’ll admit that I’m extremely biased because it’s all I’ve used (aside from waterproofs) and I’ll admit DPM is probably better in most forest environments but Im still a MTP supremacist. The future is now old man !
Defiant Shackleton Irish and British DPM camo patterns and top notch
I do love my nz dpm
I had a deer walk towards me while wearing DPM trousers, like I was some kind of weird bush or something to it, I thought it had rabies or something by the way it just walked directly towards me.
one of my dogs has brindle fur and he can be rather difficult to spot among greenery and soil cause he just blends right in
Yeah mottled brown colours are very hard to see against green and brown objects.
What a great deal of bow hunters figured out years ago is that most camo looks great up close. Go back 50 meters or 100 meters and you end up with a dark blob, because all colors or patterns run together. That was why camo with wide patterns breaks up the "human form". I'll add I remember being on an archery forum and a hunter took various patterns and photographed them black and white or Sepia (brown white) and surprising wide print plaid flannels and a Hawaiian shirt did really well breaking up human form. Maybe great grandpa in his flannel with the old 30-30 was on to something :)
MTP is my favourite camo but the CS-95 raincoat is so good. I wear it pretty much everyday, would recommend 👍.
Just watched a video of floating head and hands talk about camo noice!
Depends where you are
I use Flectarn when I go hunting for the exact reason you mentioned where one hunting camo pattern will stand out if not in the ideal surroundings.
When deer hunting,and I hunted 36year here in Indiana, movement and scene control much more important than camo design.
You are correct, Ronald Ayres. Movement and sound will give alert deer and humans alike. I was once walking in the woods, wearing a M81 woodland jacket and hat, withblack pants. I saw my map reading course group on my right, I hit behind a small bush and stayed motionless, low and silent. 10 minutes later we met again and I asked them weather they saw me or not? You can guess the answer: No, they did not see me.
hunting camo is designed for deer vision, military camo is for human eyes...
I use a pretty thick hunting jacket during the winter, as opposed to my regular one, it belonged to a friend of my dad, its mostly reed style camo good for waterfowl but can also work well in forest/woodland areas, it's also a double piece system, 2 jackets in 1 with 1 acting as extra padding, even has pockets for your shotguns shells,
@@hanburgundy4317 It has the Realtree's Max-5
Would you mind telling me your shirt and pants size? I have some old Australian army uniforms I'd like to give you
As I've said many times I don't have a PO box.
Weaponsandstuff93 didn't think that bit through..... tell me when you do!
I live in America. I love Auscam it's my favorite of all time, but I can't find any in my size anywhere, I've been looking for about 3 year's. But by far my fav.
Civilian camo and multicam :
Paying big money for brand new hypercomplicated patterns with fadded colors right out of the box...
No thanks.
I'll keep using the PRINCIPLES of camouflage with strong-durable civilian clothing & accessories, mixing them and using assymmetry, plus adding some paint and fake leaf/straw here and there.
And make/use a dozen lightweight camo capes/'blankets' for specific time and places.
People will buy anything...
Nice vid. And DPM is the best out of the box woodland camo.
From a french guy.
_
As a Norwegian I am contractually obligated to promote Norkamo as the best woodland camo. As an airsofter I'm damn sure it really is too, at least in Norwegian woodlands.
Basically, Norwegian camo is just big splotches of olive green, a darker green, and coyote brown. What that does in effect is you blend in with moss, roots and pine needles. Instead of having a disruptive pattern the idea is that the pattern will be disrupted by shadows being cast on the wearer. It's highly specialised for Norwegian flora, but seeing as the Norwegian name for the military translates simply as the 'defense', that's probably just fine.
@@odinlindeberg4624 It pretty good looking in this Americans opinion, old American tricolor woodland, marpat and multicam for me! Oh and flecktarn for hunting.
What’s better than hunting or military camo. Spray painting a flannel jacket green and brown, covering it in dirt and interlopping it with twigs grass and reeds. Works great for places like Seattle or Canada!
Yeah homemade camos always work better because they are made to work in your local environment.
Baker Thomas Music that’s hobo camo
Why spray paint it? You get the right flannel and roll in the dirt and it will be a very effective camouflage.
I thought that was really interesting about the infra red on hunting camo so they can find someone lost in the woods. That's kind of why militaries in conflicts with enemies who don't have or didn't have night vision would use ir patches like the cats eyes that came with my pasgt helmet.
Good video.
Makes sense why a military wouldn’t use hunting camouflage, but on the subject of individuals, it really varies on what or why they’d choose a camo over another.
And at that point it isn’t really worth a discussion since you’re talking of why militaries choose this over hunting camouflage.
But I wanna toss in my 2 cents, M81 woodland for where I live in spring and summer. But when it’s fall there is no green. So some hunting patterns actually fit perfectly if I wanna hunt and stay still. If I need to move a lot more in the woods I live in...which is really stupid to run in the woods, but I’d probably want something with a stripped pattern of sorts.
Well the thing is hunters are not really moving around a lot usually is your hunting in one area you kind of stay there for the rest of your life so having a camera that goes good in your neck of the woods is the best
My filter still stuck on my gas mask.
Don't friend/foe tags glow under an infrared light? Wouldn't that negate the effect of a camo that works in infrared.
I think that's dependent on the dyes used, pretty sure my MTP tags don't glow.
Dpm us woodland and flecktarn is the best for uk environment while out in the woods
bullshot? you learn new things every day XD
Love that red curtain
Cheers
Good sensible video, as always. Thank you!
Cheers
I
I find realtree long pants phenomenal in the Australian dry environment - with faded browns and greens. And the silvers and greys of the branches work great in the intense australian light. My wife can take a picture of me and it's incredibly difficult (if not impossible) when later viewing the pic to work out where my legs actually are.
Cool
Rhodesian Brushstroke might work as well in the Australian bush as it does in the African bush. Works well in temperate autumn/winter too.
Military camouflage is more effective in meeting military needs, than hunting camouflage which is not designed to meet military needs.
Wow, a revelation.
Spot on about camouflage being designed to look cool and entice people into buying it. That is very true.
Also spot on about mimicry camouflage vs. disruptive camouflage...though especially in recent times a lot of the higher end hunting camouflage is based on disruptive patterns, not mimicry like Mossy Oak or Realtree.
Great point at the end about many prey animals having significantly different vision than humans. For example, a red and black checkered flannel is excellent camouflage when looked at by a deer (being a dichromat) but not a human (being a trichromat).
What it really all comes down to is your needs, different camos will meet different needs to different degrees.
You can have the best of both with camo that has Macro and micro patterns mixed
i have an m05 army jacket works great in finnish environment
Yes Sir, the Finnish Army took 1000 photos to study the Finnish forests, in order to create M05 camo pattern. The Finns did a fine job.
I've got some M05 pants, it's amazing camo, fantastic in lush woodland or any conifer forest.
The brown is especially a really good earth tone from what I've seen when wearing it.
I find MultiCam/MTP works best in the more mountainous moorland with grasses, threw my MultiCam bag down on the ground in Snowdonia and it blended so well.
I wear British military pattern camos, I've got some of the prototype ones for future tours that haven't been released yet as well. Like the prototype hydrophobic swamp camo with no pockets.
Google gives no results, can you link to a picture of that camo please?
They are not released, nobody has been issued with them as of yet, I will wear them during my next youtube video and then send you a link of the video. :)
Hey mate, I just did some searching, I found the ones I was talking about, they are released as of last year. My friend who is a vet used to own an Army surplus store in Essex, sadly he had to shut down his shop this year, and he sold a load of unreleased items for cheap. That's where I got them from, but the ones I own don't have tags inside so you can't read the pattern, or ID them in any way. But apparently they were released under the name "Gore Tex" So now I finally know what they are called, here is a link to the jacket, I have the trousers and under garments as well.
forcesuniformandkit.co.uk/products/british-army-gore-tex-jacket-mtp-lightweight?variant=10302740865
British Army Gore-Tex Jacket - Lightweight MTP Camo
The woodland hooded camo you are wearing in this video is the snipers jacket with the adjustable wire threaded hood right? I have that one, and is my go to jacket when I hunt.
Cool given you a sub, the goretex jacket though seems to just be an updated one for MTP, like how I have the older 95 DPM goretex coat, regardless sounds interesting, will watch out for your video but give me a shout anyway when the videos up in case I miss it.
Videos up mate.
"Usually a lot of research and development goes into military camouflage" true.... except for UCP :-D
Lot's of research went into it just not for the right reasons
Lots of research went into the trials that preceded UCP, then they declared one of the lesser performing camos the winner and then made UCP with different colours and design to the winning pattern.
They essentially did all the research and then threw it away.
So the moral of the story is that if the deer ever get NVGs, hunters better watch their asses?
Nope it's that militaries shouldn't use hunting camos for the reason given.
that was a joke lol.
but I mean I've seen pictures of quite a few Iraqis and Syrians rocking the realtree and while it makes me wince, I mean if you're stuck in a situation where you don't have genuine camouflage and it's that or wearing a bright red sports jersey (which I've seen too) and you're dealing with an enemy who has limited supply/access to NVGs I'd take that. Of course any force that can procure real purpose-designed human camo should do that as soon as it has a chance.
The dark is your friend unless the enemy has night vision
Bob Joe deer already have night vision
where should i go to identify a filter. I got a coffee can filter about 6 inches tall with very few markings on it (XI-90-16) is one of them. the other is (БКФ). any info on this filter would be much appreciated.
I've heard BKF filters are safe but I wouldn't use them myself, they were supposedly used for industry.
Not to mention buying a shirt, pair of pants, balaclava, and other hunting camo gear could potentially cost you over $100. I can get Army surplus gear for much cheaper.
Yeah in the UK you can sometimes buy unissued British MTP for about £10 a piece, so a full set for £20-30. Older 95 DPM can often be bought even cheaper, very effective camos although British uniforms tend to be a little easy to rip.
Same here in the US. A lot of guys sell their extra uniforms for dirt cheap. Once I got a pair of unissued Crye multicam pants with the knee pad inserts for $20 at my local surplus store. With a bit of searching, one can find almost any piece of gear for a good price.
Ruby Ridge Airsoft yep I can get a whole kit for less then 100
Yep I can buy a whole m81 woodland kit shirt,pants,bonnie,shemgha etc for less then 100. Some hunting stuff can be 100 alone for shirts
An important point.
Humans have exellent eyesight, especially compared to *most* woodland game. If it can fool a human eye, it will most likely fool a deer, grouse, or bear. Turkeys are difficult to fool, however.
Interesting.
Smoke some more crack fool
2 reasons I prefer military camo. 1. Every military makes it for their own landscape. What works in the Rockies is not the same as what works in Germany or in Ireland or in Australia. There’s a big selection to choose from. 2. You can buy it again fraction of the cost. If you paid €50 for army surplus flecktarn goretex, you don’t mind lying in the mud in it like if you paid €300 for the same thing in Mossy Oak.
Nice video. What any camo pattern cannot do is remove the “sixth sense”, the intuitive, gut instincts “hair up on the back of your neck” of a highly sensitive, experienced, well trained point man on a patrol. I have a friend who was with SF in the 70’s. He was trained to “pull his vibe in” for a lack of a better way of explaining the technique. To get an idea of what that is, consider it’s opposite: it’s Friday night, your getting ready to go out with your buddies to hopefully meet some ladies. You’re pumped and ready for fun. That’s your vibe booming outwardly. Stealth is exactly the opposite in terms of mental chatter and emotional vibration. “Someone” he was told/trained, “should be able to walk right up to you and piss on your head without knowing you are even there”. Yes camo helps as well as g-suits, but some point men aren’t fooled by either.
You are correct, Vajra. That is why elite forces are trained NOT to look at their enemies for a long time, because people feel that they are being watched. That is that sixth sense you were talking about.
@@cooperpayne Very interesting, thank you.
I agree with your points, except about the R & D... because R & D went into the worst camo ever produced, the Universal Camoflage Pattern, which was rather quickly scrapped!, so, there's your R & D right there.
ok. i have the video paused at 5 seconds. im going to guess that the superiority of the camo has something to do with patterns and photon scattering to cause the illusion of being part of the surrounding environment. id like to hear what you have to say here.any way, pressing play now
I just prefer hunting camo based on my personality mal experiences with relatree camo. It’s been extremely effective in woods and cornfields which there are a lot of where I live
It must be darker in the UK then here in Canada I have both sets well three cadpat dpm and marpat I prefer marpat cause hell apart from full summer it's very brown here
It's dark in woodland here, especially when it's dull weather and it's raining or recently rained, I've found MultiCam works better for grassland, farmland and heath in the UK, like Dartmoor, Snowdonia and the Peak District where it's all open with few trees.
you are doing gods work
Cheers
Kinda of an off topic question, but where did you get yoir polish fp5 filters, I've tried to get them on ebay but the shipping is too expensive for my country.
From Beastoree, sadly if you are not in Europe the shipping might make them an invalid option.
Well if you hunt in specific background hunting camo is ok
? Can’t see him
Really good video.
Saw some really expensive hunting camos that were inspired by military camo
Real Tree and mossy oak is where it’s at! They look so much better! Good video!
Commercial camouflage is mimicry of backgrounds made to sell. This is why there are new patterns every year.
My all time favorite is the Vietnam tiger stripe camo.
That's a cool camo.
A ROK Marine gave me his spare set. I used that set until I wore it out...really basic utilitarian como.
I honestly don't like camo, I like it more simple and more of one color.
Who cares what you like? The point of the video is what works better
Wehraboo Waifu Well the point of the video is arguing against people who want the armed forces using hunting camo. A solid color is not as disruptive as disruptive camo
very informative video for anyone interested in buying or making camo. you really know your stuff. thats why i subscribed a while ago. 👍👍
Cheers
Weaponsandstuff93 do you have any thoughts on wide EM wavelength range active camoflouge research and the impact of such a technology's use in the field? do you think this technology would be best utilized to conceal base locations, individual foot soldiers, larger infantry units, or vehicles? i understand the mechanism is important to the function.
I love the old woodland camo
I completely agree with all of your points.
Dude why do i see only a head and hands, this is terrifying.
you missed the second major point: You can actually find all the gear you need in military camos, good luck finding a proper medical pouch or plate carrier in kryptek whatever
Frankly you don't need to match your medical pouch or plate carrier to the camo pattern you're wearing.
I wouldn't say in all places it is but in my area MARINE WOODLAND CAMO is literally PERFECT I'm in Mississippi and it matches so perfectly that's what the Mississippi state millitia uses aswell
I hunt...I use military camo. Hunting camo is all about marketing and about looking cool.
Military Camouflage and Civilian Hunter Camouflage comes down to one word: Purpose. Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen, Coasties and Spacemen wear Military Camouflage to break up the outline of the Warfighter wearing the Uniform in Action and Active Combat Operations. Civilian Camouflage does not have Infrared properties and give off the image of the wearer in a forest and woodland environment.
Military camos have shoulder pockets looking like it has built in spaulders and it makes it look twice as cool imo.
Hi do you know if s 10 is good for airsoft And where can i get one like from a shoop ?
No the plastic lenses will break if shot.
So wat gass mask is good for airsoft???
jakub kozlowski none really because they were designed for one purpose, Chemical warfare and therefore dont offer any ballistic protection.
Cant you get like plastic protection for s 10 ???
I would take UCP over hunting camo too. UCP actually works pretty well in rocky and urban environments, and deals with the IR pretty well too. And if your UCP gets dirty and worn enough, it ends up being somewhat decent in areas with more vegetation. In a lot of pictures I've seen showing how bad UCP is, it's often a crisp, clean uniform. Where in reality, a soldier deployed to Afghanistan wouldn't have a uniform looking that nice.
I saw a funny picture recently either from Iraq or Afghanistan, two US soldiers wearing UCP, one had a very new clean looking uniform and the others was dirty, the guy with the dirty camo actually blended in well, the other guy stood out. So yeah dirty UCP works really well.
I've used a UCP a few times at my local airsoft field and it's honestly not a terrible camo once it's worn in. It's just God awful when it's brand new.
It's the opposite of a typical camo, gets better with age rather than fading.
It's a more interesting camo than people give it credit for.
Not good for deer hunting.deer can see the color blue.
What's your opinion on the usefulness of black in camo patterns? I think it has its function even though it's not a "natural" color. A video about this topic would be really interesting!
I covered that a lot during my video about camo for night use. Black is mostly phased out of modern camouflages with good reason, black very rarely occurs in flora or landscapes, it's meant to shadow camos but doesn't actually work.
Weaponsandstuff93 thx for the info! Gonna check that video out...
Just wear regular camo pattern a night. But tan lits up at night, so M81 woodland and British DPM are not my favorite. Flecktarn and Olive Green are my favorite colours.
Very informative. Never considered the infrared aspect
Cheers
I go hunting in nothing but blue woad.
Multicam. Best over all camo pattern out there.
No, multicam was designed to be used in both desert and forest, like a jack of all trades. So multicam never excell in one enviroment, but give sufficient results in all enviroment. The reason why the US Army and Air Force adopted it is reducing costs, so they do not have to purchase woodland and desert uniforms at the same time.
Also in Afghanistan a patrol would face 4 enviroments in 1 day: mountain, desert, forest in a valley with a river and urban, a village. So multicam was very usefull overthere.
Hunting camo is made to work in a particular environment. Military camo is generic.If you are wearing green camo in a tan corn field, you will stand out like a turd in a punch bowl. Happened to me. There is the only advantage to someone sitting in a certain tree with matching camo to that tree. Military camo is great! If you want to hide from IR signature. There is a ton of R&D in military camo. What ink won’t fade. IR signator of cloth and ink. Not to mention durability. Spot on video.
But the entire point of the video is why hunting camo is not suitable for military use.
Weaponsandstuff93 and I feel you are correct. I will amend my post. Keep up the good work.
@@Weaponsandstuff93, who is arguing for hunting camo to be adopted by any military? It's not something I've ever come across, and I didn't know there were enough people who actually seriously suggested it to warrant a video response.
US Army UCP is a major exception. Not properly researched or tested and rarely works in any environment. Otherwise, thank you for doing this video.
Yeah, but it's best to never buy military surplus camo, you'll get accused of stolen valor if you never served.
Vintage hunting camos are baller asf
*Why do I see a floating head and hands*
Great video. Just a bit of useless info, military camouflage tends to reflect infrared light extremely well when you starch it... Probably why the american military stopped starching their uniforms.
Yeah I did a video specifically on washing camouflage and mentioned about detergent for that reason.
Im gonna have to watch that
Also ironing destroys the IR protection.
You do realise the reason the civilian camo shows up and the military doesn't in an infrared, nods etc is the materials used to produce the DPM, nothing to do with the pattern. I also challenge you to do a comparison between DPM and the correct cam to match the environment to see which stands out more, the DPM loses every time. From a distance it looks dark doesnt blend in, unless the environment is a perfect match.
Well camouflage patterns came a really far from the tartan
Do you think that if a nuclear war broke out, would you think the kennedy space center would be a target?
If you look at the old Cold War maps you can see most of the expected targets.
Weaponsandstuff93 ah alright ill go look cheers mate
Ever since I've collected military items I've preferred military camo rather than casual hunting camo👍😊
Biggest difference between hunting camo vs. military camo? Hunting camo is designed to hide one from animals.
Military camo is designed to hide one from people. Choose wisely.
Fantastic video I'm a flecktarn man myself
I wholeheartedly agree with this video. I will never wear hunting camo to my Milsims because its really about looking cool and fooling animals not humans. I tend to wear Multicam, Russian DigiFlora, and Japanese Type II
Glad you listened to the video, had a lot of people yell at me already that realtree is great for hunting when that was not what I was talking about in the video.
in Hunting camo Greys and Browns Always dominate - there is almost no green in it, because bowhunting Season starts in fall and Ends in spring. Military has very often much better break up and much more green in it
talking from a civilian point, alot of people are larpers and want a camo because it "looks" cool. ill stick with mossy oak bottomland, which is basically east german rain camo with some green splotches. looks more military than hunting camo.
ATACS fg,au and ix are not military,as yet,but leave alot of military standing.
I really like the look of the new Finnish and Polish camos
Well hunting camo is made for the right environment and is designed for the happy camper, the military one is more 1 size fits all but in the right scenario hunting camo will beat it. (hunting camo is 1 trick pony)
Now in a scenario where you are camouflaging yourself from humans your argument is very valid, though i’d like to make some points about the leaf/branch based hunting patterns. Patterns like Mossy Oak and Real Tree are designed to fool the eyes of Deer, not Humans. Growing up in the sticks and hunting you learn that Deer have a very different view of the physical world, due to the difference in the position of their eyes and their colorblindness. Because of this, while wearing many (not all) normal camo patterns we use in our militaries, we are actually more visible to them due to the shape and colors. Hunting camo is designed primarily for whitetail deer hunters and really shouldnt be used at all in a combat scenario, just as you said with its reflective nature for search and rescue. Overall you’re correct, just wanted to throw in that little tid bit.
No worries but I'm mostly talking about for military/survival type usage, which maybe I wasn't clear enough about as lots of people have told me just how good hunting camos are for hunting.
Bottomland camo is top tier in a wooded environment
So true. I wear just plain khaki colored coat goose hunting. 90% all camo to dark
It depends a lot on your environment but yeah, often simpler stuff is better.
I agree that hunting camo is inferior to military camo but I think the best hunting camo is Hide ‘N Pine
Around here, we call it Mall Camo,. as opposed to hunting camo... It's Tactikool, As EVERYONE who has EVER hunted and been forced to wear BLAZE ORANGE all over virtually every square inch knows. The Critters don't care!
I think Realtree beats the pants off DPM. Modern military patterns are better, eg Multicam but don't underestimate hunting patterns.
do a field test
Already have
@@Weaponsandstuff93 i meant in the video but its my first time watching your videos.i agree with you on the hunting camo i like to use flecktarn
Sir u have no idea what u are talking about when it comes to camo
Flektarn is the best in my apinion 😀 pleace profe me rong
The camo patterns for hunting are more for sitting still
Either way great video
Yeah and the militaries don't use them for the reasons I outlined.
Lone wolf Studios yep once you move your serwced