Having worked with both MARSOC and green berets, I’ve never been more impressed by a group of professionals who are kind, polite, and yet very driven than the marine raiders(MARSOC). The dudes are humble beyond belief and don’t believe anyone owes them anything. They always help the lowest level too, not just people they see as equals. Just personal experience though.
Totally man. I was with green - but working with marines in any capacity in afghan was always a treat. they had this way of turning their own personal accountability into the accountability of everyone working with them - the job always got done. always.
Your sons a badass marine. My brother is a marine too, unfortunatly i cant serve due to medical shit...but i would have, now i serve in other ways, the medical aide side for veterans... God bless your son
I don't mostly recommend this because, once he gets into SOF, especially tagged under USA. Enemies will always be looking for drawbacks and you can be a drawback. They'd just get you and use you as leverage. If you get what I mean
Appreciate the shout out to Army Airborne. Former 11B airborne infantry here, 2/505 in the Deuce and 3/509 in Alaska. Was WIA in Iraq and medically retired. Miss it everyday, especially the brotherhood.
As a Marine cult member. Thanks for telling the truth about us. Marines are accustom to poor living quarters, harsh conditions and low pay. We hold it in until it is time to release our frustrations on our enemies. PBUG
My dad served as a marine in 1989-1993 in the gulf war and died in 1994 from leukemia at age 23 his name was William Brice McKinney Sr and a true hero to his family and his country
It’s very true what he said about Marines and discipline.That level of discipline helped save our lives in Fallujah in 04”.We were the first Marines in history to ever be an occupying force on Camp Fallujah. From the Cook, Pen pusher, Driver, Mechanic,to the MARSOC guys we’re all ready to get down and are expected to keep a level of discipline and physical fitness
On point! I was in DAPA on Camp Pendleton>>>I have a Degree from "drinking off base" "DUI" I love the Marine Corp!.. The U.S NAVY>>>kept me in! Sempre FIdalas!
Former Navy [ HM3 ]. Served with Marines at MCRD Parris Island. The recruits they shape into Marines aren't special, but they come out of basic training at a level of motivation, dedication, and intensity that other services cannot match. If I had to go to war, it was going to be with Marines, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
I was a Pmi at WFTB on PI and you are right but it’s the motivation, intensity and dedication that make them special. And the amount of time we put into rifle marksmanship compared to other branches. Not that all marines can shoot, saw many an officer not qualify from the air station and female Drill instructors.
@@joshuarodriguez9983 Do you think that Marines and Army Infantry should be given much more ammo to train? I see it as Bullets are cheap compared to Subs, Aircraft ect. It shouldn't be only SOF that gets to shoot very often. All of our Infantry Units should be doing live fire as often as they wish. They're job is to close with and destroy the enemy after all right? So I say give them a few hundred million rounds of ammo more.
@@smithnwesson990 the issue is Ammo allotments and budgets. I went through CQB school and that is honestly where I refined everything. I think all combat arms mos should go through it. Recruits in boot camp don’t need more shooting just because it’s not the mission of boot camp to make super soldiers, that training is follow on at soi and other schools. But yes, more trigger time incorporated with the right curriculum/training exercises would be very beneficial.
@@smithnwesson990 here’s one thing that used to drive me insane was the blanks allotment compared to actual live rounds allotted for training for the Battalion. Now if you went to a school those rounds came out of that special schools ammunition allowance. You would get double sometime triple the amount of blanks for training instead of live rounds. Anybody that’s served in the infantry knows there are times and places for blanks, but a lot of them are wasted and left in the forests of Camp Lejeune at least for East Coast and it’s been going on since. WW2 or Korea because every now and then you would dig a cat hole if needed or a fighting position and find rotting M1 Garand clips and blanks. Special Ops getting a better ammunition allocation because it’s coming from a different pot and on top of that they get more chances at advance schools. Just the facts of life. Probably some of the best Live Fire training conducted was at CAX in 29 stumps. Just my opinion
As a retired former Marine who was involved in the mid 80s MEUSOC adventures, I really appreciate Jocko's well informed, objective, and strategic response to this question. If we understand all services' and Special Operations forces capabilities we can employ them effectively to best support our nation's military objectives! Jocko gets that and that's why he is awesome and should be followed!!! Semper Fi everyone and happy 2021!
@Jacob Dawson I mean...I don’t think a bandana is needed for the same outcome. Jocko is a Blackbelt in BJJ and former professional super elite warfighter. I...sweat when I eat.
They should have you on. Excellent video on Rangers vs SF by the way. I figured the sky's the limit for me at my age so I considered SOF and was torn between Rangers and Green Berets. 75th fits better so if I ever grow a big enough pair to try that's what I'll be going for. Thanks and best of luck.
I was at 2nd Recon when MARSOC was being stood up (down the street). And man, they straight up took ALL the best operators. I got out as that was happening, but I've only heard the best things about the new unit.
@@Packetrackit The sarcs were probably "the best" dudes all around. I served with 6-8 different sarcs (hard to remember, was there for five years) and they were all stellar.
It did hurt recon for a decade, it was a huge brain drain from the E-5 and down perspective. When force recon was neutered, it also made guys that didn’t go into MARSOC leave, or lat move.
I knew some dudes in my unit that tried to go MARSOC, and they even completed everything correctly. But got dropped in selection, according to them because the instructors didn’t think they were a proper fit. And I was just like damn. If you couldn’t make it that’s nuts lol. Special Forces sounds like the promised land in the military tbh lol.
The military always wants Spec Ops personnel, at the front of things anyway...always heard they can't get enough of them. Go to a recruiter, tell them you want in for Spec Ops, and they'll say "Hotdog, lickety split!" and clap their feet together.
@@Mr2200 that's just because they look good recruiting for special programs. It really has nothing to do with quotas at that early level. They'll always say they want for spec ops, but the truth is they just want more top notch dudes to go in, fail and then fill out the sleeves of conventional military because it's always lacking
Shawn Ryan had an amazing interview with a former MARSOC operator, truly remarkable man. He talks about how MARSOC was formed, and how their first deployment was disastrous. It was incredibly intriguing. After an engagement during an op, there were reports of them killing innocents, and after a lazy investigation and several officer failures, careers were ruined. Didn't get overturned until 12 years later, despite a lack of any condemning evidence. Almost like someone wanted them out of SOCOM's hair from the jump.
The theater commander didn’t want them in Afghanistan, they showed up anyway and started doing their own operations independent of what he was doing. They developed a reputation as a bunch of “cowboys” who weren’t coordinating their operations with anyone. The accusation that they gunned down a bunch of civilians during a convoy back to their base was enough to get them sent home. It was never investigated thoroughly, they were kinda busy with a war and nobody foresaw the criminal charges that came a year later. They were never exonerated, the charges were simply dropped.
I am a retired Marine of 27 years. What separates the Marine Corps from everyone else is the ratio of organic to support within every unit in the Corps. That desire to be as self sufficient on the individual, unit, and Corps level as economically feasible. If you wonder why the Marine Corps insists on maintaining it
I remember working with the guys who made up the pre-cursor to MARSOC i 2004. Jocko is right as they were pulling Marines from Force Recon as well as ANGLICO units to form the initial group.
@@beachbrettf yeah actually. I think I linked up with them a couple times. Would have been around April/March 04? I’ll be honest though I don’t remember the context. Been so long.
Former ANGLIBRO- initial concept of MSR, the MARSOC support dudes, had ANGLICO getting absorbed to serve as the fires dudes. The SOCS methodology won out, but ANGLICO kind of became a pipeline for JTACs to go over. I’ve got two of my guys over there.
I was in The Corps from '74 to '79, went 0311 and then made Recon (0321). I mustered out after my four years (got accepted for Engineering College) but almost reupped for a shot at Force Recon selection. I knew a number of the Force Recon Marines stationed at Pendleton at the time and they were some badass dudes. I had one of them tell me that pretty much everyone on Force Recon would get recruited by the CIA when their enlistment contract was nearing its end. As he put it "The CIA has a hardon for Force Recon Marines". As a small fyi, near the end of WWII the Navy decided they needed to set up a special force that could conduct scuba and land based missions (forerunner of the SEALs) and the Marine Raiders were asked to help setup the Navy's first combat scuba school as the Raiders were then the subject matter experts for Sea and Land warfare. The Raiders were then disbanded as the Marine leadership felt all Marines were special and didn't like the idea of special units within The Corps. Would be interesting to see where the Raiders/SEALs would be today had the Marine Raiders had stayed cohesive and their doctrine and training continued.
My High School Principle was a Marine Raider in WW2, Paul Green, Elgin Larkin High School, Elgin, IL. I played on the basketball team with his son Phil. I joined after high school in 1978 and served 12 years active duty, I was a Radar/Nav system tech.
My buddy that I grew up with was in MARSOC from 2008 until 2013 when he was medically discharged for injuries received in the field. He has told me stories of the guys he served with and to me they seem like a hardcore bunch of warriors. Glad y’all are talking about them.
I was a grunt in the marines 2004-2009 OIF 2007 and I trained with Marsoc guys. Those dudes are different!! I think I was a damn good Marine but Marsoc is a different level
Oohrah!!!! I am a VERY PROUD MARINE MOM! My son is an 0311 designated marksman! I still can't believe my 20 year old son is living his dream And I raised a Grunt!!!!! He plans on going MARSOC route maybe be a sniper. He just started his 1st deployment. He is planning to go career and the Marine corp is helping him become a man of excellence!!! I will forever be grateful to the Corp.
They just revamped the RSC so it's a lot tougher to be accepted and pass, but make sure your son is definitely motivated to go through. The instructor to student atio is damm near 1:1 so he'd be getting real close with the cadre so he has to be in it 100%
Thanks for the motivating thoughts on the USMC. The formation of MARSOC is a throwback to the marine raiders of WW2 who may vary well have been the first special operations units. Semper Fi.
Wrong. Marine Raiders did the same job as Force Recon for the Marine Corps. MARSOC is the first unit in the Corps that is assigned outside the Department of the Navy.
I enjoyed and respect how you distilled your response. Like you, I fought in Ramadi in '05. I served in 1st Force Recon and two other recon battalions before that. And USMC infantry before that. Thank you for your service Sir, thank you for what you continue to do for the veteran community. SEMPER FIDELIS...The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday...Today will be different................
It’s humbling as a Member of the Marine Corps and Human family to hear from Seals and our other amazing special operators. Our world wouldn’t be safe without you all. I for one am extremely grateful every day.
I got to meet Jocko after I grinded myself down, and graduated USMC recruit training with a broken hand. He told me it was a mental game, and I had won. Respect to him, and all my guys that joined MARSOC. 🔥
Worked with a bunch of Recon Marines in the early 2010's. Best group of individuals I've come to work with in my life. Extremely motivated and exemplary Marines. Honored to call some of them my friend and to have served with those gentleman
My barracks mate tried out for MARSOC. Had a perfect PFT. Still didn't make it through the selection process. Marines are already tough as nails. Even the pencil pushers can put lead in you at 500 yards. Extensive combat skills are basic knowledge for all Marines. But MARSOC Marines are basically perfect human specimens. Like a bunch of Jason Borne's running around.
What did he fail on? I've seen battalion recon selection in the mid 2000s and that shit looked brutal so can't imagine how tough MARSOC must be nowadays.
@@darren763 Well it’s not just about being able to do all the physical stuff. But you gotta have leadership skills, know you knowledge, maturity and much more. You gotta be good at all that to get selected.
Worked with a Physician's Assistant who was a Recon guy. Very detailed, dedicated, compassionate, disciplined, focused, an open book, and always willing to teach. Perhaps one of it not the most solid men I've ever met in my life.
I went to Marsoc Assessment and Selection as a corporal and it was the first time they offered a preparation and orientation course into the special operations community. It was incredible to see the capabilities of CSO and the great amount of responsibility is entrusted to each operator. I ended up making it to the end of the assessment and selection but was not selected due to me getting lost as all get out. I was offered the opportunity to come back to the next class but I had picked up Sgt and Received orders to be a Drill Instructor. I ended up doing a 3 1/2 year tour and picked up staff sergeant so my window to become a CSO had passed. Just recently my buddy who I met at raider A&S and made it on a team and was killed in action. To this day I rewind all the way back to the fork in the mountain I ultimately made the wrong choice on and got me lost and not selected and think what if I would have made it and not have made it back. Rest Peace Diego Pongo 😔
I was class 02-10, very similar story to yours. Our ASPOC class has pics on DVIDS if you were with us. At least one of the guys that got selected from that class was killed in a helicopter crash back in 2015 along with a bunch of guys from his team and the aircrew. RIP SSGT Blaylock SF devil
@@itsAmeOFP that’s crazy I didn’t know they did vids, we had a whole crew taking pictures and video of us when we were main side. Once we went to Virginia tho everything changed 😅
MARSOC has its roots in the WWII Marine Raiders. Recon Marines and forced recon (feeders for Raiders) are highly trained....scuba, jump wings. There is now a path for recruits to enlist directly into recon. Previously they mostly came from infantry ranks.
I am a National Guard guy. Three deployments. All of the Special Operations people we got to rub shoulders with were eager to teach us what they knew. It was an excellent experience every time either stateside or overseas. The only time we got treated like idiots was from conventional units. And big surprise - they weren't any better than us. They were just insecure and wanted to feel better than somebody.
I know 1 guy who was a 31 in my company, he was training for A&S becore our deployment, during, and after went to A&S and aced it, also passed ITC with flying colors. Guy was an absolute unit
I was in an ANGLICO unit and we did more with Rangers, 82nd, 101st, and even worked with some SEALS and EOD guys. (Side note, jump school was amazing when the Navy and Marines teamed up and would yell "MARINE DOWN!" and we'd all drop and start pushing. LOL! The blackhats hated that but they always came and talked to all of us when there was downtime. The biggest compliment we had was being deployed with the 82nd and our enlisted guys were talking with the officers about stock trading and stuff in the Wall Street Journal. One of the officers said "you guys are actually smart!!" The group of enlisted Marines I was with all had their college degrees. No we don't all eat crayons. LOL!
I was a Reservist doing my MOS training and apparently an athletic feat of mine got noticed when I pushed multiple guys falling out of a run in the desert who outweighed me by 50 lbs. or more back into formation to keep our record 100% no run fails. Me and another guy in the company were told to go to a particular room without any explanation one day, which I assumed was some sort of garbage detail to clean or carry gear somewhere. Instead, the room was full of high ranking enlisted and officers, which startled me and had me thinking I was getting falsely charged with something because I hadn't done anything wrong. They started talking about my high performance scores and told me I could have an opportunity for an ANGLICO tryout and training if I changed my contract to active duty. I decided against it because there was no guarantee I'd be accepted to anything and I knew nothing about what that even was, and who knows where I'd end up if I didn't make it, but I've learned more about these units since then and admire the great work those guys do. My main focus at that time was advanced graduate education, which I have accomplished since then, but from how you described things maybe I would have liked it more than I expected. I guess you don't get a second chance with things like that, but that path I took still turned out well for me.
I don't think so. The WWII Raiders raided islands from submarines and destroyers, went on really long patrols behind enemy lines. MARSOC is doing all the high-speed, low-drag missions, Jumping out of planes, small boat raids against high-value targets, counter-insurgency, taking out terrorists. Smaller units, like the SEAL teams, out doing really special missions. If the Raiders has not been disbanded, they very well would have grown into the missions that MARSOC does now.
No, MARSOC was the Marines way to get SOCOM money and they’re basically trying to emulate Green Berets now. They’ve had a handful of SNAFUs and are trying to find their niche, which is not helping their status in a restructured Marines Corp. They were born out of a call for military expansion in the early years of GWOT and now there’s a “too many chefs in the kitchen” situation.
@@alexander1902 actually Marine Corps high command was always against the idea of having Marine unit in SOCOM. Sec. Of Defense Rumsfeld ordered the Marines to contribute members to SOCOM.
@@darrenblack1299 jocko is definitely that breed. Back when he joined he probably didn’t know much about what the marine corps could offer him. And to piggyback on you, the marines were shafted back in the day with their special forces. This didn’t allow recon/raiders to meet full potential till later in life.
I have a friend 32.5 years Recon Marine. They portrayed him in Generation Kill as well. The deployment standards are among the highest I have ever heard of, and his combat stories were absolutely insane. Really badass group.
The reason Marines were not apart of JSOC is because when that was stood up in I believe 1987 the USMC was asked to participate and the Commandant of the Marine Corps at the time refused and said all my Marines are special. Had to do with MEU SOC which stands for Marine Expeditionary Unit Special Operations Capable. Now I served from 1997-2005 in the infantry and originally joined under the Uniform Victor program Security Forces which that year Clinton destroyed that field. That field was infantry Marines that got specialized training after graduating from ITB and would get assigned to Naval Ships as the Marine Detachment, guard Naval nuclear weapons stations, or go to a FAST(Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team) Company for 2 years and then after that be sent to the fleet to serve in a line Battalion. Clinton eliminated all Marine detachments assigned to Naval Vessels which severely cut the boat spaces for that particular program plus back then there wasn’t a RIP guarantee as part of the contract. So I was given the option by my recruiter to switch my MOS field choice or just go on a straight Infantry contract which I chose. Hindsight I should’ve waited till I could get a boat space with the UV program, but being impulsive and 17 y/o I just went ahead with the straight Infantry contract and lucked out. I got 0311(rifleman)which is what I wanted or I would’ve been content with 0313( LAV Crewman). I wouldn’t have been completely upset with 0331(machine gunner) or 0351(assault man). I really didn’t want 0341(mortars) or 0352(Tow gunner). I was never apart of or was a Recon Marine which in the Reconnaissance Battalions you have Recon Companies and then a Force Reconnaissance Company. It happened after I got out so I believe 2006 they stood up MARSOC which are now known as the Raider Battalions to establish lineage with their WW2 counterparts. What they did was gut the Force Recon Companies to stand up MARSOC and I believe it took till 2011-2013 to bring the Force Reconnaissance Companies back up to strength which they are absolutely 2 separate entities now. Force Recon is back with the Recon Battalions and MARSOC/Raider Battalions fall under JSOC. Now to become a Recon Marine you have to come from the Infantry or enlist with the RIP program as part of your contract which isn’t a guarantee it’s just guarantees you a slot to attempt to become a Reconnaissance Marine 0321. To become a Raider they do assessments and selection where you can be from any MOS as long as you exceed the physical standards, pass, get selected, and complete the training you become a 0372(Critical Skills Operator). To be eligible you have to have at least 3 years time in service with no NJPs within the last 12 months and once selected for OTC you have to re-enlist. Don’t quote me on all those, but they hit the major points.
Did you wear 1 of the new MARSOC Raider badges? To me that just screams 😫 hey! We are SOC, Special Ops too! I think the 1980s era Clint Eastwood Heartbreak Ridge 1985 Imdb.com Force Recon was fine.
One of the main reasons the Marine Corps didn’t fully participate in JSOC was that they wanted the Marines to give up control of part of their organic air forces, and General Gray told them no. We were busy building the MEUSOC program at the time and giving up opcon of air assets would’ve reduced the desired capabilities.
I was in till '84. MARSOC was at that time Marine Special Operations Capable.. I was with both the 24th and 32nd MEU. The mentality was that ALL Marines were special and we did not need a Spec Ops unit. But our units followed the SEAL selection process, training, and standards VERY closely. As a Force Recon Marine, I went on to get my HALO/HAHO cert, Combat swimmer cert. I take NOTHING away from other branches, units, or agencies. But Jarheads deserve some kudos. Thanks Jocko for the shout out!
Force Recon and now MARSOC serve as the deep reconnaissance and special mission units while the recon battalions support the divisions with a 'technically' special operations capable force that can do more shallow reconnaissance. The problem is that for 20 years now the recon battalions end up tasked as just another infantry battalion and a lot of guys never actually get to the specialized schools. The USMC is now streamlining into more of a quick strike force with the Pacific in mind, ditching all their tanks. If it were me I'd fold MARSOC guys into the leadership positions in the recon battalions and train them up to a an elite light infantry, SOF standard like the 75th Rangers. A force capable of jumping onto airfields and holding them in the Pacific.
LOL.... no. Just utter no. NEVER compare Recon or Infantry Marines to the Rangers. Those guys are good but completely overrated. A Marine Infantry unit does what Rangers can not/ will not do. Live in the worst of conditions , both environment (no xbox, showers, warm food, etc) and kinetic wise without all that SOCOM money and politics to back them up. I can say the same about Recon. Recon doesn’t need Raider leadership, at this point, they are two different units. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is, when you have SOCOM and an IED filled environment, the Recon battalions do not offer much else besides taking on an infantry role. Also, having them jump in is the worst thjng for them. They got rid of “paraMarines” in WW2 because jungles aren’t friendly to canopies.
USMC's ANGLICO units were always part of the US Special Operations Command but we didnt get the funding like Jocko said. We worked with units like the 82nd and 75th along with the British Royal Marines etc. Its awesome to see MARSOC getting the funding and recognition.
I was in Marine Corps SOI in '06 when MARSOC was being stood up and even got to do some joint training with them. My biggest regret was not taking the offer to go through Indoc straight out of SOI.
That's funny, straight out of SOI? I was a Corporal with 1/7 STA with 2 1/2 years in and they wouldn't let me indoc until I reached 3 years of service. You must have been the best recruit EVER for them to come and ask you considering that has NEVER happened before or after you.
Thank God someone said STA. I bet 99% don't know what STA is. Have a good one hunter of gun. And yeah, that kids full of shit, Marsoc would never let a boot straight outta soi indoc. So many fn lying girls
Marines will never want the title of a Navy Seal. The Marine Corps had Force Recon, and still do. MARSOC gets funding from SOCOM, but Force Recon doesn’t.
@Somedayglory Semper Fi brother, I agree 100%. Will be a Marine for life, MARSOC Operators have their own device and wear it proudly. I’ve never seen a MARSOC Operator compare himself to a Navy Seal.
Yes agreed overdue all branches have their special ops the should have there is the funding which is critical SO has a better budget /training opportunities. An the SO indoctrination is different.
@@JK-vc7ie It's tough to say we have too many special forces. Each group is supposed to perform specific mission sets. SEALs, for example, are supposed to give the Navy a special operations force for situations where the Navy needs it (for example to recon or neutralize ground-based ASM launchers). The Marines need a similar force that can give a Marine Air-Ground Task Force the capability to perform its own special missions. The reason current special forces units have to fight over missions is primarily because we have been operating in the Middle East for so long the only special missions available are more suited to Army special forces than any other, and because of mission creep. When SEAL Team 6 keeps making headlines for doing missions Army SOF could be doing there's more push and incentive for SEAL teams to be doing those same missions. MARSOC ran into the same issue where they had been formed but had few to no missions being assigned for a variety of reasons.
Thanks for the lavish praise for the Marines. I of course, felt like we needed WAY more training ... but, when I went to my MOS school on an Army base with a Marine Detachment, it was shocking to see Army boot camp for those in the Army whose AIT wasn't considered a combat unit; I KID YOU NOT, a drill sergeant ASKED a "PRIVATE" (not a recruit) if they could basically make another "payment" towards the 20 pushups they owed. O_O vs IT ... which didn't end until the puddle I made reached the puddles of the other 9 of us (unless our senior DI IT'd the platoon). There was no asking, there was just, Drill instructor Staff Sergeant Ruiz: "SELF DESTRUCT, THING!" Us: _Self-destruct, aye aye sir_ Begin: _one, two, three, 1-sir_ ... after 500 or so "side straddle hops" ... it was, Drill instructor: Pushup position now! Drill instructor: BEGIN! At some point our DI would say someone in the back wasn't doing them well enough and we were going to start all over. We'd do about 1500 -jumping- side-straddle hops ... 300 push ups ..? (not at once, obviously) ... Run in place ... Legs at 6" and then "flutter kicks" (so feminine sounding) and just switch once we were at the point in which our nervous systems couldn't command our muscles to follow the orders of an exercise anymore. Or, maybe we'd just hold our M-16A2 (yes, in the mid 90s) By the front sight assembly straight out for 20 minutes ... Or if your DI finds out you're going to be an MP at their next duty station ... perhaps you stay in the up position waiting to begin doing pushups for a "class" (TLO and ELO) that's 30m on ironing. A ... PUSHUP DEBIT CARD !? Whoa. Asking a "private" who's in the middle of yammering with his "fellow privates" ...? If we anything but eat at the POSITION OF ATTENTION, silently, head-and-eyes straight ahead ..? A DI would walk up, slam that recruits tray (food flies everywhere) and even if you'd just finished grabbing food and had yet to take your first bite (rules say we needed to receive food, not eat it) and were all kicked out the chow hall ... all because someone looked looked around the room, even while silent, at the POA. . Then, the Senior DI would IT us until those who had eaten..? Threw up anyway. (not all of us, but 2-3 of us) ... In 2nd phase when doing rifle qual they found in my field jacket a .... pack of caramel. lol. From then on everyone would have to pass their caramel to the front, peel it all, stuff my face with it until I Looked like a chipmunk as I did pushups .... intermittently "blowing in the dirt" (I guess he thought it would get in my mouth that way? ) ... took a good week before I was sick of caramel. :) The good ol' days.
Former Marine here, who deployed with recon Marines and SEALs in a spec ops unit. I was not a legit member of that community, but I tagged along and provided them with intel and comm support. I lived and worked together with recon Marines and SEALs for months. First of all, much love to all SEALs, but especially to Jocko. Everytime he says even the small thing about the Marine Corps he says very upbeat and complimentary things, which is wonderful and well appreciated from a person who knows his s***, and who comes from a world where sometimes alpha male type competitive thinking often keeps people from being so gracious to their “cousins” from a sister service. Jocko genuinely “gets” the USMC, and I appreciate that. Truth is, SEALs and that brand of Marines are legitimately “brothers from another mother” and after a short period of time working together, you really can’t tell them apart.
I like how towards the end, he admits the strength of Marines that go to MARSOC having experience with conventional units and having a solid understanding of what those line units need and how they operate. That's a major difference between Army and Marine SOCOM units and SEALs. Unless someone in the Navy was prior Army or Marines, they bring nothing to the table when they pin on their Trident. They are nothing and know nothing about supporting adjacent units. They were Boatswains mates, Machinist mates, ect. When someone goes to SF or MARSOC, they are already an experience combat arms member and they bring that to the table when they hit their first unit. It's priceless.
The Marines always had some elite units in them, though. There was Recon and Force Recon who may not be special operations on paper, but they can still pull off a lot of the same stuff that SEALs or even Rangers do.
@@Garrus1995 except they won’t. Because they won’t get deployed. You can’t compare them to seals until they are deployed as often as seal teams are. You can’t compare them to the Ranger regiment until you have them deployed every 8 months like a Ranger battalion does
The USMC only set up MARSOC and Raiders when they were bluntly told: either get with the SOC, SF, SAD, program or get disbanded-cut the %=÷& off 💰💰💰.... the US Marines & generals said; uhhhh we want $ and budgets.
@Annemarie It didn't really harm SOCOM/JSOC as much as it did the USMC, by missing out on all those funds for equipment and training. Former Commandant Al Gray is the one who initially turned JSOC down if I remember correctly. He said, "all Marines are elite". In part, the origin of that statement was both about "control" and because the USMC didn't really like the Recon community. Recon was looked at as undisciplined cowboys by the rest of the Corps, and nothing could be further from the truth. Recon used it's own "script" when they needed to and that didn't sit well with the mainstream Corps.
I was in the US army during OIF1 and OIF3,and I enjoyed the times I worked with US Marines,especially in OIF3 near AL Kut..And in 2009 I was deployed to Camp Leatherneck in Helmand,great times as well...I only found motivated Marines all around.
Marine Recon and Force (was the internal "special force" prior to MARSOC). They have been around a while and they have there own indoc/tryout. Marine Recon and Force still exists (you can tryout during SOI) in addition to MARSOC but those guys are Marine Raiders. Both forces have to go through months and months of training (sea, air, and land) very similar to BUDS which is common among all special forces units (lots of bullshit, lots of PT, and lots of getting fucked with just like SEAL/Ranger/75th/Para Rescue. The thing about Marine Raiders, you can't even tryout until after you put in your time (4 years). Regardless whether your a Seal operator, ranger/beret operator, recon/force operator or Marine raider they all have their purpose. They all have to go through intense training, its just a matter of personal preference which one you want to go through. I went the Marine route and have worked with Team 3 in Ramadi. In the end, we're all brothers fighting one fight. No one is better than the other. -Cheers ua-cam.com/video/nBOrclf6rwA/v-deo.html
I was an 0331 (M60 gunner) in Hawaii when the Raider concept was in its infancy, and a lot of my fellow Marines were motivated by this new challenge and opportunity. Quite a few of my platoon mates went out of their way to get commercial or recreational SCUBA certs just to get more familiarity being in the water since us "regular" Grunts couldn't attend and SCUBA schools that the Marines or other branches offered. Recon and Force Recon always filled those slots up leaving us with no other options. I got out in the early 90s, so I am not familiar with whatever came of the Raiders, or even how that relates to MARSOC, but I am sure there is some connection
The Marines were never really out of special operations... they have essentially always been a special operations tasked primary arm of the Navy. The eliteness has been ingrained since rescue operations in Tripoli... as a former airborne and air assault soldier I can say it’s always great to work with Marines... the hijinks and tomfoolery aside... but even then they usually just needed something to appropriately direct their energy at... often the issue for the Marines is not so much having people who qualify as much as it will be having a number of slots to be filled. Often the schools should have more slots... so that cook, truck driver, clerk typist is not only a rifleman but frequently as the person is committed and the qualities necessary... a scout sniper Anglico what have you... thats what makes the Marines so outstanding already. Being a Marine means being the Marine that the Marines need you to be today. Chasing the glory slots can be troublesome for command, morale and discipline. Disappointment is a real issue across the services. As a airborne soldier I don’t understand how everyone does not want to make greater commitments. I always got along well with the Marines. I only fear 250,000 people wanting to be involved is a greater likelihood than the Marines ever coming up short.
The problem with both the Marines and the army is there is just too much on the support side and not enough in the field positions. For instance, 15% of the army is infantry. Even in WW2, about 40% of the troops were nowhere near a combat zone due to just their MOS.
@@orlock20 I understand the situation very well; I was a 13F a forward observer so I am both a support team member and right there with the infantry or out on a OP or something. It takes 36 other people doing their jobs to properly empower me to my job... at which point I look at the infantry as perimeter security under certain conditions because anything targeted is now in the cross hairs of the Air Force, Navy, Marines as well as the Army... the situation made more complicated by logistical concerns and intelligence management. There is tremendous difference between fighting wars and winning wars... between supporting national security and supporting the military industrial complex. When the tax structure and industrial manufacturing development structure is correct every high dollar system... aircraft, ship, armor equipment system pays for a matching piece of equipment. Buy one plane and get one free. Pay for five salaries and economic stimulation and taxes pays for the sixth one. The economic as well as resources and environmental conditions each factor has tipping points. I really like your statement. I don’t think historically that “civilized” standing armies have ever been able to work around this situation. For example the Huns and various tribal cultures don’t have recognized structures but the Huns had family members and captives crafting their arrows... making their “saddles” and gear... the trick is finding the sweet spot were the support generates success.
@@quitequiet5281 I believe it starts with the branches have specific targets to prevent overlap such as the National Guard protecting U.S. territory, the army protecting allies, the navy protecting the sea and providing logistics, the air force targeting Russia, China and North Korea and the Marines and SOF to attack hostile countries, gangs and terrorists. That way the army and air force could be sharing bases with the host nations while the Marines use the Navy's infrastructure.
@@orlock20 yes, I agree we are over stretched with 800 plus bases. I would have done the space force thing differently... I would have given all the ships to the Coast Guard. Tasked the Navy with getting us into space. The similarities between space today and open ocean travel five hundred years ago are remarkably similar. Aircraft carriers and submarines have much in common with spacecraft. Reorganization of national efforts into exploration, research and space development rather political economic social hierarchy maintenance would allow us to transform into a image matching our belief of who we are... rather than being corporate property entertaining ourselves with distractions. The problem is that we need the economy functioning and the people both educated and with united idea of what “we” or “they” want to accomplish... then aligning our efforts to create a open free market society working together to achieve success. Our computers and smart devices are dumbing us down frequently rather building us up. Don’t get me wrong I love playing video games and surfing the internet but I would rather be using the same technology in a more useful way... but it’s not being developed; because the focus is on information mining in order to sell things and gain subscribers... at this rate we could all become successful UA-camrs with 1 million followers each and each of us have a successful Amazon product and even though everyone is making money... no one might be interested flipping burgers or feeding chickens or growing potatoes... so at some point failing in reality even though everything seemed wonderful. I don’t know exactly how many bases are overseas are escalating rental costs in order to support local political agendas. While crushing our budgets. Are we there to enrich them? Or help them? We need to develop values and align political perspectives in agreement with economic realities. Troops in Afghanistan should be receiving steak and lobster frequently because the cost of delivery exceeds the substance being shipped. So the substance should be worth shipping. Whereas spending the time and resources spent capturing the high ground and developing advanced technologies in conjunction with updating our infrastructure alters the national trajectory... we are spending billions of dollars and not actually accomplishing our goals because there is no real plan. People are putting in hard difficult dangerous work but there was never a true strategy other than spending money. If we had made Marshal plan for Afghanistan they would have world class economy by now and be a major trading partner. But we are dropping high tech on people who can not reach our country because foreigners were hiding in their country. It’s like we are trying to copy the mistakes of fallen historical empires. Wow I feel like I wrote chapter of a book.
A BJJ training mate of mine who served overseas in the Australian army who trained along side the USMC, said they are great blokes and just like our soldiers 👍
Marines had raiders in WW2 that went behind enemy lines for months at a time sabotaging and killing the enemy. MARSOC is like a reborn Raider. Which is now what MARSOC is called
I understand now the basic difference between Recon and Raider is Green Op and Black op. My missions were always Green ops... but could go black. Raiders know going in that the shit is going to fly. Obviously, I'm very old school to all this now.
My view on the matter is: The Marine Corps attracts a unique type of individual who is not merely content with being good; they strive to be the best. They embrace challenges and thrive in demanding environments. This unwavering commitment to excellence is evident in their willingness to undergo rigorous infantry training, regardless of their specific MOS. For Combat MOSs like 03xx, 18xx, and 08xx, the training is even more intense and specialized. Beyond the rigorous physical demands, all Marines are deeply immersed in the history and traditions of the corps. They internalize the ethos that personal shortcomings are unacceptable, as they directly impact the success of the team. This combination of factors, despite having a smaller recruitment pool, results in a higher caliber of recruits for MARSOC compared to other Special Operations forces. While all Special Operations personnel are exceptional, those in MARSOC stand out for their efficiency and humility (which is Ironic as Marines are generally known for their deserved arrogance).
So now we have to ask you to draw -your perception- of comparisons between MARSOC and JSOC units. Just general comparison, selection requirements and training intensity.
I was in the Infantry 84-88 we also had MEU in that time and changed over to MEUSOC in that same time so SOC has been around for some time in the Corps, and there was also Recon and Force Recon in that time, the difference was in Mission abilities, for MEUSOC in my time I was in a Helo Raid Company for my part, but our main goal was within notice we were in country in 6 hours boots on the ground and that part still exist today, Today they have branched of into, MEUSOC, MARSOC, RAIDERS.
Jocko, do you think the 101st Airborne Division is still elite, despite not being an airborne unit? Want to be a paratrooper but also want to be part of the Screaming Eagles. What are your thoughts on that unit? Edit: Anyone can answer, I don’t mind
Jocko is NOT the guy to answer that question since he was a Navy Seal. I served 4 yrs in the 101at and also the 82nd ABN. I really don’t like the word “elite” because it really makes no sense when applying it to military units. I had the honor of serving in infantry units assigned to those divisions and training was great in both of them. However, being a paratrooper was simply amazing given the mission we trained to do, so I felt more attachment to the 82nd. Now, special operations has been all the rage these last couple of decades due to GWOT. I did serve in a SF unit in a support role, so I got to see and do a number of things that most soldiers wish they could have experienced. To be truthful, I felt that my time in the 82nd was the best out of all the units I served in. SF is in it’s own category because the mission and environment was very different, but I was a true soldier in the 82nd. That is not a knock on the 101st at all because they are great as as well, but being a paratrooper made you feel a certain way. Bottom line, it is all about your leadership and the standards they enforce. That is what would make a unit feel “elite”.
@@parawill7074 Thank you for answering sir. They recently deactivated a pathfinder company in the 101st that was airborne, so there’s that. I wanted to be in the 101st due to their heritage and I wish by the time in enter, they atleast have one unit that’s airborne. But the 82nd also is a better option since I want to be a paratrooper. I did hear about some people being in the 101st while only being airborne qualified, but idk about that.
@@parmsidhu2541 - The 101st is a pure conventional fighting force that is heavily air mobile. I would recommend you get a airborne or Ranger contract. Now, if you are seeking to be pushed to your limits and also be a paratrooper, fight to get a Ranger contract above all else. If you have the right mentality and want to be out there doing special operations, Ranger is the way to go if you plan on going into the Army. The Rangers are a good outfit and I would recommend them to anyone seeking to be part of SOF right out the gate. They simply get more training and opportunity to go fight right now compared to other units.
People get confused with MARSOC and seals was because of their selection and training process but it’s very different, one guy who was a MARSOC from Savage actual and he said that it was a lot of recon more than swimming compared to SEALS and he did say that even though that we are trained in this type of operation but we are not water based but can conduct in underwater operations if needed, but there was a lot of recon involved with this special operations unit.
There’s a reason why they modeled their structure around US Army Special Forces from the selection process to their qualification course and organizational structure. That is the significant battlefield impact that GBs have, add in some hardcore Marine Corps tradition, history and ideology and you end up with one amazing contribution to SOCCOM!
its about mission, every branch has their strengths. the branches are just different. i was in the marine corps but met outstanding dudes from all branches.
Jocko I agree with you. MARSOC WAS FINALLY PUT UNDER A TIER 1 HEADING AFTER THEIR BEGINNING. This provided them with all the special equipment they could use
I worked with 3rd Raider Bn as a contractor for almost 2 years. There are a lot of exSF guys working there to train that force. Those Marines were some of the most knowledgeable and professional guys Ive ever worked with. In many respects, they put SF to shame.
I knew a lot of Marines who were very successful after they left the Corps. The self discipline and determination go a long way. There is a direct correlation between persistence and success. Marines know that at the atomic level.
@@KnightTemplar976 yeah if you think that getting action is where it’s at then believe me when I say that just being a Marine isn’t enough. Go hard (don’t break yourself) with core/leg strengthening exercises and become a dolphin in the water. Plus if you do either of the two groups I mentioned above then you won’t need to put up with as much rank structure BS
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Having worked with both MARSOC and green berets, I’ve never been more impressed by a group of professionals who are kind, polite, and yet very driven than the marine raiders(MARSOC). The dudes are humble beyond belief and don’t believe anyone owes them anything. They always help the lowest level too, not just people they see as equals. Just personal experience though.
Totally man. I was with green - but working with marines in any capacity in afghan was always a treat. they had this way of turning their own personal accountability into the accountability of everyone working with them - the job always got done. always.
How did you serve?
@@bassface14 How did you serve?
@Matthew Damon How did you serve? What did you do?
@@pogglethelesser4688 how?
Jocko - thank you for your supportive words for the USMC in general and MARSOC specifically ....from the proud father of an active duty MARSOC Marine.
Your son is an absolute badass from another Marine.
@@devinhays168 Semper Fi Marine and thank you too for standing in the gap....much appreciated.
Your son is a fucking badass!
Your sons a badass marine. My brother is a marine too, unfortunatly i cant serve due to medical shit...but i would have, now i serve in other ways, the medical aide side for veterans...
God bless your son
I don't mostly recommend this because, once he gets into SOF, especially tagged under USA. Enemies will always be looking for drawbacks and you can be a drawback. They'd just get you and use you as leverage. If you get what I mean
The only thing wrong with MARSOC is that it didn’t exist until after I was out of the Marines.
Nevertheless Devil Dog you are a Marine!
Yeah but Force existed and you werent there so dont act like you wanted that life anyways when you didn't.
@@JesusChrist2000BC well back then recon was only available to 03xx
That's tough
Back in my day...
Appreciate the shout out to Army Airborne. Former 11B airborne infantry here, 2/505 in the Deuce and 3/509 in Alaska. Was WIA in Iraq and medically retired. Miss it everyday, especially the brotherhood.
What about the regular 11B☹️ lol I’m salty man .. but it’s all luv ♠️
Thank you for your service.
Love the airborne shoutout It made my day!! Former 82nd as well
@@BeyondThe-b3v no love for us legs
Semper fi bro
As a Marine cult member. Thanks for telling the truth about us. Marines are accustom to poor living quarters, harsh conditions and low pay. We hold it in until it is time to release our frustrations on our enemies. PBUG
The REAL reason theyre called DEVIL dogs lol
Low pay? Don’t flatter yourself
Yep. Maybe that's why the SEALs treated us like shit. They wanted MARSOC to mess everyone up 🤣
Stir up the hornets nest of insurgents then shoot 295,968 bullets at them in a dense urban area.
Semper Fi.
Sergeant grinch, the whole idea about Low pay that you know is nonsense. Military members get paid very adequately and you know it. Stop the preaching
My dad served as a marine in 1989-1993 in the gulf war and died in 1994 from leukemia at age 23 his name was William Brice McKinney Sr and a true hero to his family and his country
Rest in peace, Marine.
23,damn. Rest in peace.
RIP my boy! We all have your back.
What an honor it is that you carry on his name. Live a proud life sir.
Rip brother
It’s very true what he said about Marines and discipline.That level of discipline helped save our lives in Fallujah in 04”.We were the first Marines in history to ever be an occupying force on Camp Fallujah.
From the Cook, Pen pusher, Driver, Mechanic,to the MARSOC guys we’re all ready to get down and are expected to keep a level of discipline and physical fitness
“The bottom line is......the Marine Corps is awesome”
On point! I was in DAPA on Camp Pendleton>>>I have a Degree from "drinking off base" "DUI" I love the Marine Corp!.. The U.S NAVY>>>kept me in! Sempre FIdalas!
A Degree in Addiction Studies!
Jocko never misses a chance to praise the marine corps
rah.
@@johnnygoesfast9397 Did you serve? If so, what did you do?
Former Navy [ HM3 ]. Served with Marines at MCRD Parris Island. The recruits they shape into Marines aren't special, but they come out of basic training at a level of motivation, dedication, and intensity that other services cannot match. If I had to go to war, it was going to be with Marines, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
I was a Pmi at WFTB on PI and you are right but it’s the motivation, intensity and dedication that make them special. And the amount of time we put into rifle marksmanship compared to other branches. Not that all marines can shoot, saw many an officer not qualify from the air station and female Drill instructors.
@@joshuarodriguez9983 Do you think that Marines and Army Infantry should be given much more ammo to train? I see it as Bullets are cheap compared to Subs, Aircraft ect. It shouldn't be only SOF that gets to shoot very often. All of our Infantry Units should be doing live fire as often as they wish. They're job is to close with and destroy the enemy after all right? So I say give them a few hundred million rounds of ammo more.
@@smithnwesson990 the issue is Ammo allotments and budgets. I went through CQB school and that is honestly where I refined everything. I think all combat arms mos should go through it. Recruits in boot camp don’t need more shooting just because it’s not the mission of boot camp to make super soldiers, that training is follow on at soi and other schools. But yes, more trigger time incorporated with the right curriculum/training exercises would be very beneficial.
@@smithnwesson990 here’s one thing that used to drive me insane was the blanks allotment compared to actual live rounds allotted for training for the Battalion. Now if you went to a school those rounds came out of that special schools ammunition allowance. You would get double sometime triple the amount of blanks for training instead of live rounds. Anybody that’s served in the infantry knows there are times and places for blanks, but a lot of them are wasted and left in the forests of Camp Lejeune at least for East Coast and it’s been going on since. WW2 or Korea because every now and then you would dig a cat hole if needed or a fighting position and find rotting M1 Garand clips and blanks. Special Ops getting a better ammunition allocation because it’s coming from a different pot and on top of that they get more chances at advance schools. Just the facts of life. Probably some of the best Live Fire training conducted was at CAX in 29 stumps. Just my opinion
Oohrah
Great stuff. I was one of the Force Recon guys that did deployments with Jocko when he was a younger SEAL. Stand up guy for sure.
My Staff Sergeant was Force Recon and came to us from the teams in Okinawa...cool Marine, humble...
Oorah Salt Dog! 🧂 🐕
So glad we have the best of the best keeping the wolves away
Wow
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your service Sir!🇺🇸
The fact that the marine corps operates so well on such a small budget is a testament to their professionalism and capability
As a retired former Marine who was involved in the mid 80s MEUSOC adventures, I really appreciate Jocko's well informed, objective, and strategic response to this question. If we understand all services' and Special Operations forces capabilities we can employ them effectively to best support our nation's military objectives! Jocko gets that and that's why he is awesome and should be followed!!! Semper Fi everyone and happy 2021!
As a Former Recon Marine...I thank you Jocko.
They don’t always take the best guy they take the right guy
So the right one is the best one
The guys that can make "the right decision" for each particular circumstance.
Statement curteousy of Pat Savidge CAG.
lol that comes from Delta Force and 22 SAS methodology.
@@joesgotya9930 and just who do you think cross trains with the Raiders...A LOT
I think Jocko’s forearms have their own zip code. I hope they voted in the election.
@Jacob Dawson I mean...I don’t think a bandana is needed for the same outcome. Jocko is a Blackbelt in BJJ and former professional super elite warfighter. I...sweat when I eat.
forearms better than twoarms
They do have a zip code, we bbq on Thursdays, come on down!
I was just thinking the same thing.
@@LaughingLiftingGaming Hey I like BBQ.
Love to jump on with you guys, prior 10th Special Forces, book dropping March 2021 regarding trauma
They should have you on. Excellent video on Rangers vs SF by the way. I figured the sky's the limit for me at my age so I considered SOF and was torn between Rangers and Green Berets. 75th fits better so if I ever grow a big enough pair to try that's what I'll be going for. Thanks and best of luck.
You’re channel is helping me so much. A current EOD in the pipeline.
@@ironstarofmordian7098 thanks man!
Love your content, I hope they bring you on at some point.
@@AFLleader Same bro!
Hearing Jocko talk about Our Corps with such Love & Respect makes my non shooting eye tear up♥️
Get jocko to one million
Seriously. What's the friggin holdup?
He's almost there
Done
As a former Marine, thank you for the gracious words. Great channel. Enjoy hearing your stories. Semper Fi.
I was at 2nd Recon when MARSOC was being stood up (down the street). And man, they straight up took ALL the best operators. I got out as that was happening, but I've only heard the best things about the new unit.
Thank you for your service big man. Quick question tho, you had a sarc amongst u right? How was he
@@Packetrackit The sarcs were probably "the best" dudes all around. I served with 6-8 different sarcs (hard to remember, was there for five years) and they were all stellar.
Almost sounds like a set up. All the best guys in the same place?
It did hurt recon for a decade, it was a huge brain drain from the E-5 and down perspective. When force recon was neutered, it also made guys that didn’t go into MARSOC leave, or lat move.
How was recon selection the swimming part were u tied up ?
I knew some dudes in my unit that tried to go MARSOC, and they even completed everything correctly. But got dropped in selection, according to them because the instructors didn’t think they were a proper fit. And I was just like damn. If you couldn’t make it that’s nuts lol. Special Forces sounds like the promised land in the military tbh lol.
Slots are filled by need. A military at rest has less slots. A military in a massive war will completely drop standards such as with Project 100,000.
@@orlock20 This guy gets it. No one ever considers this for some stupid reason
The military always wants Spec Ops personnel, at the front of things anyway...always heard they can't get enough of them. Go to a recruiter, tell them you want in for Spec Ops, and they'll say "Hotdog, lickety split!" and clap their feet together.
@@Mr2200 that's just because they look good recruiting for special programs. It really has nothing to do with quotas at that early level. They'll always say they want for spec ops, but the truth is they just want more top notch dudes to go in, fail and then fill out the sleeves of conventional military because it's always lacking
@@Mr2200 yeah I always heard MARSOC and Recon were hurting for people.
When Jocko was born. The nurse stated "It's a man"
Naturally
Shawn Ryan had an amazing interview with a former MARSOC operator, truly remarkable man. He talks about how MARSOC was formed, and how their first deployment was disastrous. It was incredibly intriguing. After an engagement during an op, there were reports of them killing innocents, and after a lazy investigation and several officer failures, careers were ruined. Didn't get overturned until 12 years later, despite a lack of any condemning evidence. Almost like someone wanted them out of SOCOM's hair from the jump.
his name was Cody what a p.o.s. how do u not put his name
what number pod or guys name
@ianhall7193 believe it was Mike Ritland, could be wrong, been a while since I saw the episode. Rit has his own podcast too, good show
The theater commander didn’t want them in Afghanistan, they showed up anyway and started doing their own operations independent of what he was doing. They developed a reputation as a bunch of “cowboys” who weren’t coordinating their operations with anyone. The accusation that they gunned down a bunch of civilians during a convoy back to their base was enough to get them sent home. It was never investigated thoroughly, they were kinda busy with a war and nobody foresaw the criminal charges that came a year later. They were never exonerated, the charges were simply dropped.
Isn't this about Fox Company?
I am a retired Marine of 27 years. What separates the Marine Corps from everyone else is the ratio of organic to support within every unit in the Corps. That desire to be as self sufficient on the individual, unit, and Corps level as economically feasible. If you wonder why the Marine Corps insists on maintaining it
Sure, not including the Navy they also rely on
When Jocko was in high school the teachers would have to put up their hand up to ask him a question
@Ben Barker come on mate .. it’s just some humour .. didn’t mean to offend anyone .. especially Jocko.
@Ben Barker bruh it’s the fucking internet.... just have a laugh, nobody wanna know your personal life. I know I may sound a dick
@@Fullyfrank what did Ben say?
😂 💀
Tf is up with Ben? What did he say?
I remember working with the guys who made up the pre-cursor to MARSOC i 2004. Jocko is right as they were pulling Marines from Force Recon as well as ANGLICO units to form the initial group.
... something about your name is familiar.
2nd fast co ring any bells?
@@beachbrettf yeah actually. I think I linked up with them a couple times. Would have been around April/March 04? I’ll be honest though I don’t remember the context. Been so long.
@@bobiddle1600 no I got up to Yorktown with 2F in 06.
Former ANGLIBRO- initial concept of MSR, the MARSOC support dudes, had ANGLICO getting absorbed to serve as the fires dudes. The SOCS methodology won out, but ANGLICO kind of became a pipeline for JTACs to go over. I’ve got two of my guys over there.
Marsoc raiders, the most professional marines I've ever had the pleasure of working with
I was in The Corps from '74 to '79, went 0311 and then made Recon (0321). I mustered out after my four years (got accepted for Engineering College) but almost reupped for a shot at Force Recon selection. I knew a number of the Force Recon Marines stationed at Pendleton at the time and they were some badass dudes. I had one of them tell me that pretty much everyone on Force Recon would get recruited by the CIA when their enlistment contract was nearing its end. As he put it "The CIA has a hardon for Force Recon Marines". As a small fyi, near the end of WWII the Navy decided they needed to set up a special force that could conduct scuba and land based missions (forerunner of the SEALs) and the Marine Raiders were asked to help setup the Navy's first combat scuba school as the Raiders were then the subject matter experts for Sea and Land warfare. The Raiders were then disbanded as the Marine leadership felt all Marines were special and didn't like the idea of special units within The Corps. Would be interesting to see where the Raiders/SEALs would be today had the Marine Raiders had stayed cohesive and their doctrine and training continued.
doctrine and training gets shared all across the board with all 03s based on mission set
My High School Principle was a Marine Raider in WW2, Paul Green, Elgin Larkin High School, Elgin, IL. I played on the basketball team with his son Phil. I joined after high school in 1978 and served 12 years active duty, I was a Radar/Nav system tech.
My buddy that I grew up with was in MARSOC from 2008 until 2013 when he was medically discharged for injuries received in the field. He has told me stories of the guys he served with and to me they seem like a hardcore bunch of warriors. Glad y’all are talking about them.
I was a grunt in the marines 2004-2009 OIF 2007 and I trained with Marsoc guys. Those dudes are different!! I think I was a damn good Marine but Marsoc is a different level
I had a Rodriguez in my platoon #3058 in '04 and he went grunt....he looks like your picture lol!
@@nathanielcherubini4353 were you in Parris Island? That’s where I was for boot camp
Oohrah!!!! I am a VERY PROUD MARINE MOM! My son is an 0311 designated marksman! I still can't believe my 20 year old son is living his dream And I raised a Grunt!!!!! He plans on going MARSOC route maybe be a sniper. He just started his 1st deployment. He is planning to go career and the Marine corp is helping him become a man of excellence!!! I will forever be grateful to the Corp.
Who asked?
Please thank him for his service!! Marine Corps 0311, doing the poop and snoop!!
They just revamped the RSC so it's a lot tougher to be accepted and pass, but make sure your son is definitely motivated to go through. The instructor to student atio is damm near 1:1 so he'd be getting real close with the cadre so he has to be in it 100%
Thanks for the motivating thoughts on the USMC. The formation of MARSOC is a throwback to the marine raiders of WW2 who may vary well have been the first special operations units. Semper Fi.
Wrong. Marine Raiders did the same job as Force Recon for the Marine Corps. MARSOC is the first unit in the Corps that is assigned outside the Department of the Navy.
You should interview former Force Recon and Marsoc Nick Koumalatsos. Love your channel Jocko
I enjoyed and respect how you distilled your response. Like you, I fought in Ramadi in '05. I served in 1st Force Recon and two other recon battalions before that. And USMC infantry before that. Thank you for your service Sir, thank you for what you continue to do for the veteran community. SEMPER FIDELIS...The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday...Today will be different................
It’s humbling as a Member of the Marine Corps and Human family to hear from Seals and our other amazing special operators.
Our world wouldn’t be safe without you all.
I for one am extremely grateful every day.
I got to meet Jocko after I grinded myself down, and graduated USMC recruit training with a broken hand. He told me it was a mental game, and I had won. Respect to him, and all my guys that joined MARSOC. 🔥
Dan Bilzarian down voted this video 16 times
Epic
Epic!
... that one time at buds
@@oldmate99 hey did you guys know Dan went through multiple hell weeks? What a warrior!! 😂
@@jaydubs6354 broke all his legs too, multiple times
Worked with a bunch of Recon Marines in the early 2010's. Best group of individuals I've come to work with in my life. Extremely motivated and exemplary Marines. Honored to call some of them my friend and to have served with those gentleman
Were you Navy Corpsman or Navy SARC?
@@realpro5571 me? Marine, just not recon, I was Motor T.
@@jameannohere ah lol
Motor T is one of the most elite units in the MC too.
My barracks mate tried out for MARSOC. Had a perfect PFT. Still didn't make it through the selection process. Marines are already tough as nails. Even the pencil pushers can put lead in you at 500 yards. Extensive combat skills are basic knowledge for all Marines. But MARSOC Marines are basically perfect human specimens. Like a bunch of Jason Borne's running around.
“Sorry sir, you didnt make the cut. Please, continue being an absolute badass elsewhere”.
What did he fail on? I've seen battalion recon selection in the mid 2000s and that shit looked brutal so can't imagine how tough MARSOC must be nowadays.
If you ever get to meet one. You will know how real this is.
@@darren763 Well it’s not just about being able to do all the physical stuff. But you gotta have leadership skills, know you knowledge, maturity and much more. You gotta be good at all that to get selected.
You can run a perfect pft during selection they're looking for certain traits
Worked with a Physician's Assistant who was a Recon guy. Very detailed, dedicated, compassionate, disciplined, focused, an open book, and always willing to teach. Perhaps one of it not the most solid men I've ever met in my life.
While in the Navy I met both Seals and Recon guys. I met EOD and EOD who were Seals. All were great professionals. My hat is off to all of them.
As a Recon Marine from years past. We Marines are proud to call you our Navy brother.
Semper Fi Jacko.
I went to Marsoc Assessment and Selection as a corporal and it was the first time they offered a preparation and orientation course into the special operations community. It was incredible to see the capabilities of CSO and the great amount of responsibility is entrusted to each operator. I ended up making it to the end of the assessment and selection but was not selected due to me getting lost as all get out. I was offered the opportunity to come back to the next class but I had picked up Sgt and Received orders to be a Drill Instructor. I ended up doing a 3 1/2 year tour and picked up staff sergeant so my window to become a CSO had passed. Just recently my buddy who I met at raider A&S and made it on a team and was killed in action. To this day I rewind all the way back to the fork in the mountain I ultimately made the wrong choice on and got me lost and not selected and think what if I would have made it and not have made it back. Rest Peace Diego Pongo 😔
Semper Fidelis brother.
@@bradleygonzalez1160 Semper Fidelis my brother
If you don't mind talking about it what did the instructors have you do that got you booted out
I was class 02-10, very similar story to yours. Our ASPOC class has pics on DVIDS if you were with us. At least one of the guys that got selected from that class was killed in a helicopter crash back in 2015 along with a bunch of guys from his team and the aircrew.
RIP SSGT Blaylock
SF devil
@@itsAmeOFP that’s crazy I didn’t know they did vids, we had a whole crew taking pictures and video of us when we were main side. Once we went to Virginia tho everything changed 😅
MARSOC has its roots in the WWII Marine Raiders. Recon Marines and forced recon (feeders for Raiders) are highly trained....scuba, jump wings. There is now a path for recruits to enlist directly into recon. Previously they mostly came from infantry ranks.
I am a National Guard guy. Three deployments. All of the Special Operations people we got to rub shoulders with were eager to teach us what they knew. It was an excellent experience every time either stateside or overseas. The only time we got treated like idiots was from conventional units. And big surprise - they weren't any better than us. They were just insecure and wanted to feel better than somebody.
I know 1 guy who was a 31 in my company, he was training for A&S becore our deployment, during, and after went to A&S and aced it, also passed ITC with flying colors. Guy was an absolute unit
I was in an ANGLICO unit and we did more with Rangers, 82nd, 101st, and even worked with some SEALS and EOD guys. (Side note, jump school was amazing when the Navy and Marines teamed up and would yell "MARINE DOWN!" and we'd all drop and start pushing. LOL! The blackhats hated that but they always came and talked to all of us when there was downtime. The biggest compliment we had was being deployed with the 82nd and our enlisted guys were talking with the officers about stock trading and stuff in the Wall Street Journal. One of the officers said "you guys are actually smart!!" The group of enlisted Marines I was with all had their college degrees. No we don't all eat crayons. LOL!
I was a Reservist doing my MOS training and apparently an athletic feat of mine got noticed when I pushed multiple guys falling out of a run in the desert who outweighed me by 50 lbs. or more back into formation to keep our record 100% no run fails. Me and another guy in the company were told to go to a particular room without any explanation one day, which I assumed was some sort of garbage detail to clean or carry gear somewhere. Instead, the room was full of high ranking enlisted and officers, which startled me and had me thinking I was getting falsely charged with something because I hadn't done anything wrong. They started talking about my high performance scores and told me I could have an opportunity for an ANGLICO tryout and training if I changed my contract to active duty. I decided against it because there was no guarantee I'd be accepted to anything and I knew nothing about what that even was, and who knows where I'd end up if I didn't make it, but I've learned more about these units since then and admire the great work those guys do. My main focus at that time was advanced graduate education, which I have accomplished since then, but from how you described things maybe I would have liked it more than I expected. I guess you don't get a second chance with things like that, but that path I took still turned out well for me.
Marsoc may have been established in like 2005 but they are really just the modern rebirth of the Marine Raiders from WWII aren’t they
Im pretty sure Marine Raiders are a part of modern day MARSOC. There's Recon and Raiders afaik.
rsx123 yeah so it really is the rebirth with some siblings lol
I don't think so. The WWII Raiders raided islands from submarines and destroyers, went on really long patrols behind enemy lines. MARSOC is doing all the high-speed, low-drag missions, Jumping out of planes, small boat raids against high-value targets, counter-insurgency, taking out terrorists. Smaller units, like the SEAL teams, out doing really special missions. If the Raiders has not been disbanded, they very well would have grown into the missions that MARSOC does now.
No, MARSOC was the Marines way to get SOCOM money and they’re basically trying to emulate Green Berets now. They’ve had a handful of SNAFUs and are trying to find their niche, which is not helping their status in a restructured Marines Corp. They were born out of a call for military expansion in the early years of GWOT and now there’s a “too many chefs in the kitchen” situation.
@@alexander1902 actually Marine Corps high command was always against the idea of having Marine unit in SOCOM. Sec. Of Defense Rumsfeld ordered the Marines to contribute members to SOCOM.
Some times I feel that deep down jocko wanted to be a marine
Everyone wants to be us. Marines are a different breed, SEALS have more funding then MARSOC. Better gear, but MARSOC is badass.
@@darrenblack1299 jocko is definitely that breed. Back when he joined he probably didn’t know much about what the marine corps could offer him. And to piggyback on you, the marines were shafted back in the day with their special forces. This didn’t allow recon/raiders to meet full potential till later in life.
I'm pretty sure he's said in one podcast that if he had to pick ANYTHING else than SEALS if he went back in time, it'd be the USMC
If you listen to a lot of former Dev Group guy interviews they always say they first planned on joining the Marines.
@@darrenblack1299 that’s actually not true at all.
I worked with Jocko and his team in Ramadi (I am a Marine). Great dude and thanks for fluffing us Jocko!
I have a friend 32.5 years Recon Marine. They portrayed him in Generation Kill as well. The deployment standards are among the highest I have ever heard of, and his combat stories were absolutely insane. Really badass group.
I bet your friend was the guy who molested all those little kids. Did you know about it?
Force Reconnaissance is Special Operations Capable. Thank you for the kind words Jocko nothing but love for the TEAMs.
1,2,3,4 I LOVE THE MARINE CORPS .
The reason Marines were not apart of JSOC is because when that was stood up in I believe 1987 the USMC was asked to participate and the Commandant of the Marine Corps at the time refused and said all my Marines are special. Had to do with MEU SOC which stands for Marine Expeditionary Unit Special Operations Capable. Now I served from 1997-2005 in the infantry and originally joined under the Uniform Victor program Security Forces which that year Clinton destroyed that field. That field was infantry Marines that got specialized training after graduating from ITB and would get assigned to Naval Ships as the Marine Detachment, guard Naval nuclear weapons stations, or go to a FAST(Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team) Company for 2 years and then after that be sent to the fleet to serve in a line Battalion. Clinton eliminated all Marine detachments assigned to Naval Vessels which severely cut the boat spaces for that particular program plus back then there wasn’t a RIP guarantee as part of the contract. So I was given the option by my recruiter to switch my MOS field choice or just go on a straight Infantry contract which I chose. Hindsight I should’ve waited till I could get a boat space with the UV program, but being impulsive and 17 y/o I just went ahead with the straight Infantry contract and lucked out. I got 0311(rifleman)which is what I wanted or I would’ve been content with 0313( LAV Crewman). I wouldn’t have been completely upset with 0331(machine gunner) or 0351(assault man). I really didn’t want 0341(mortars) or 0352(Tow gunner). I was never apart of or was a Recon Marine which in the Reconnaissance Battalions you have Recon Companies and then a Force Reconnaissance Company. It happened after I got out so I believe 2006 they stood up MARSOC which are now known as the Raider Battalions to establish lineage with their WW2 counterparts. What they did was gut the Force Recon Companies to stand up MARSOC and I believe it took till 2011-2013 to bring the Force Reconnaissance Companies back up to strength which they are absolutely 2 separate entities now. Force Recon is back with the Recon Battalions and MARSOC/Raider Battalions fall under JSOC. Now to become a Recon Marine you have to come from the Infantry or enlist with the RIP program as part of your contract which isn’t a guarantee it’s just guarantees you a slot to attempt to become a Reconnaissance Marine 0321. To become a Raider they do assessments and selection where you can be from any MOS as long as you exceed the physical standards, pass, get selected, and complete the training you become a 0372(Critical Skills Operator). To be eligible you have to have at least 3 years time in service with no NJPs within the last 12 months and once selected for OTC you have to re-enlist. Don’t quote me on all those, but they hit the major points.
Semper Fidelis Brother I was with 2/8 SOC MEU Charlie Company in ODS / Storm Task force Ripper!
Did you wear 1 of the new MARSOC Raider badges? To me that just screams 😫 hey! We are SOC, Special Ops too! I think the 1980s era Clint Eastwood Heartbreak Ridge 1985 Imdb.com Force Recon was fine.
TLDR
One of the main reasons the Marine Corps didn’t fully participate in JSOC was that they wanted the Marines to give up control of part of their organic air forces, and General Gray told them no. We were busy building the MEUSOC program at the time and giving up opcon of air assets would’ve reduced the desired capabilities.
Marsoc is under Socom
Yes, we are awesome.
I was in till '84. MARSOC was at that time Marine Special Operations Capable.. I was with both the 24th and 32nd MEU. The mentality was that ALL Marines were special and we did not need a Spec Ops unit. But our units followed the SEAL selection process, training, and standards VERY closely. As a Force Recon Marine, I went on to get my HALO/HAHO cert, Combat swimmer cert. I take NOTHING away from other branches, units, or agencies. But Jarheads deserve some kudos. Thanks Jocko for the shout out!
I was a Army Tanker 19K and the Marines tankers were very good. Probably even better tankers than army
Idk why they took them away smh
Force Recon and now MARSOC serve as the deep reconnaissance and special mission units while the recon battalions support the divisions with a 'technically' special operations capable force that can do more shallow reconnaissance. The problem is that for 20 years now the recon battalions end up tasked as just another infantry battalion and a lot of guys never actually get to the specialized schools. The USMC is now streamlining into more of a quick strike force with the Pacific in mind, ditching all their tanks. If it were me I'd fold MARSOC guys into the leadership positions in the recon battalions and train them up to a an elite light infantry, SOF standard like the 75th Rangers. A force capable of jumping onto airfields and holding them in the Pacific.
LOL.... no. Just utter no. NEVER compare Recon or Infantry Marines to the Rangers. Those guys are good but completely overrated. A Marine Infantry unit does what Rangers can not/ will not do. Live in the worst of conditions , both environment (no xbox, showers, warm food, etc) and kinetic wise without all that SOCOM money and politics to back them up. I can say the same about Recon. Recon doesn’t need Raider leadership, at this point, they are two different units.
Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is, when you have SOCOM and an IED filled environment, the Recon battalions do not offer much else besides taking on an infantry role. Also, having them jump in is the worst thjng for them. They got rid of “paraMarines” in WW2 because jungles aren’t friendly to canopies.
@@Lifechanging99999 completely agree
When I watched generation kill the recon batts were being used like infantry i believe
@@AQUAPHREESH193 yup and they were used in the same manner in Afghanistan.
@@Lifechanging99999 he's not. He's saying that they should form Recon battalions into a Ranger like force.
I worked with a x Marine recon man in Iraq at Victory, He worked in Grenada, Panama , and places he would not admit to. One bad Ass Man...
USMC's ANGLICO units were always part of the US Special Operations Command but we didnt get the funding like Jocko said. We worked with units like the 82nd and 75th along with the British Royal Marines etc. Its awesome to see MARSOC getting the funding and recognition.
I was in Marine Corps SOI in '06 when MARSOC was being stood up and even got to do some joint training with them. My biggest regret was not taking the offer to go through Indoc straight out of SOI.
too late to back ?
When in 06?
That's funny, straight out of SOI? I was a Corporal with 1/7 STA with 2 1/2 years in and they wouldn't let me indoc until I reached 3 years of service. You must have been the best recruit EVER for them to come and ask you considering that has NEVER happened before or after you.
Thank God someone said STA. I bet 99% don't know what STA is. Have a good one hunter of gun. And yeah, that kids full of shit, Marsoc would never let a boot straight outta soi indoc. So many fn lying girls
@jeffrey b yea ur right they don’t take anybody under corporal they goal is young corporals
Marines will never want the title of a Navy Seal. The Marine Corps had Force Recon, and still do. MARSOC gets funding from SOCOM, but Force Recon doesn’t.
Marines do fucking become Navy Seals holy fuck
@Somedayglory Semper Fi brother, I agree 100%. Will be a Marine for life, MARSOC Operators have their own device and wear it proudly. I’ve never seen a MARSOC Operator compare himself to a Navy Seal.
There is no greater pride than being a Marine!
Force recon works in assistance of a marine expeditionary force, MARSOC doesn‘t
Yes agreed overdue all branches have their special ops the should have there is the funding which is critical SO has a better budget /training opportunities. An the SO indoctrination is different.
We already have too many special forces. We don’t need more. They already fight over missions.
True and not funny
@@JK-vc7ie It's tough to say we have too many special forces. Each group is supposed to perform specific mission sets. SEALs, for example, are supposed to give the Navy a special operations force for situations where the Navy needs it (for example to recon or neutralize ground-based ASM launchers). The Marines need a similar force that can give a Marine Air-Ground Task Force the capability to perform its own special missions. The reason current special forces units have to fight over missions is primarily because we have been operating in the Middle East for so long the only special missions available are more suited to Army special forces than any other, and because of mission creep. When SEAL Team 6 keeps making headlines for doing missions Army SOF could be doing there's more push and incentive for SEAL teams to be doing those same missions. MARSOC ran into the same issue where they had been formed but had few to no missions being assigned for a variety of reasons.
Jocko YOU are a legend and true warrior. Thank you for the kind words about my Brother Marines. Semper Fi Sir.
SSgt M.A. Medina/EOD
Jocko presses load , and falls asleep at 10 pm. Right on schedule
He goes to bed at midnight and wakes up at 4am
Agreed Marines are awesome and simply a different breed that this country needs. Army Airborne and Air Assault divisions are pretty tough too.
Thanks for the lavish praise for the Marines.
I of course, felt like we needed WAY more training ... but, when I went to my MOS school on an Army base with a Marine Detachment, it was shocking to see Army boot camp for those in the Army whose AIT wasn't considered a combat unit; I KID YOU NOT, a drill sergeant ASKED a "PRIVATE" (not a recruit) if they could basically make another "payment" towards the 20 pushups they owed. O_O vs IT ... which didn't end until the puddle I made reached the puddles of the other 9 of us (unless our senior DI IT'd the platoon). There was no asking, there was just,
Drill instructor Staff Sergeant Ruiz: "SELF DESTRUCT, THING!"
Us: _Self-destruct, aye aye sir_
Begin: _one, two, three, 1-sir_ ... after 500 or so "side straddle hops" ... it was,
Drill instructor: Pushup position now!
Drill instructor: BEGIN!
At some point our DI would say someone in the back wasn't doing them well enough and we were going to start all over.
We'd do about
1500 -jumping- side-straddle hops ...
300 push ups ..? (not at once, obviously) ...
Run in place ...
Legs at 6" and then "flutter kicks" (so feminine sounding)
and just switch once we were at the point in which our nervous systems couldn't command our muscles to follow the orders of an exercise anymore.
Or, maybe we'd just hold our M-16A2 (yes, in the mid 90s)
By the front sight assembly straight out for 20 minutes ...
Or if your DI finds out you're going to be an MP at their next duty station ... perhaps you stay in the up position waiting to begin doing pushups for a "class" (TLO and ELO) that's 30m on ironing.
A ... PUSHUP DEBIT CARD !? Whoa. Asking a "private" who's in the middle of yammering with his "fellow privates" ...?
If we anything but eat at the POSITION OF ATTENTION, silently, head-and-eyes straight ahead ..? A DI would walk up, slam that recruits tray (food flies everywhere) and even if you'd just finished grabbing food and had yet to take your first bite (rules say we needed to receive food, not eat it) and were all kicked out the chow hall ... all because someone looked looked around the room, even while silent, at the POA. .
Then, the Senior DI would IT us until those who had eaten..? Threw up anyway. (not all of us, but 2-3 of us) ...
In 2nd phase when doing rifle qual they found in my field jacket a .... pack of caramel. lol.
From then on everyone would have to pass their caramel to the front, peel it all, stuff my face with it until I Looked like a chipmunk as I did pushups .... intermittently "blowing in the dirt" (I guess he thought it would get in my mouth that way? ) ... took a good week before I was sick of caramel. :)
The good ol' days.
Former Marine here, who deployed with recon Marines and SEALs in a spec ops unit. I was not a legit member of that community, but I tagged along and provided them with intel and comm support. I lived and worked together with recon Marines and SEALs for months. First of all, much love to all SEALs, but especially to Jocko. Everytime he says even the small thing about the Marine Corps he says very upbeat and complimentary things, which is wonderful and well appreciated from a person who knows his s***, and who comes from a world where sometimes alpha male type competitive thinking often keeps people from being so gracious to their “cousins” from a sister service. Jocko genuinely “gets” the USMC, and I appreciate that. Truth is, SEALs and that brand of Marines are legitimately “brothers from another mother” and after a short period of time working together, you really can’t tell them apart.
Effective and efficient, highly motivated. These are words used by Jocko here.
I like how towards the end, he admits the strength of Marines that go to MARSOC having experience with conventional units and having a solid understanding of what those line units need and how they operate. That's a major difference between Army and Marine SOCOM units and SEALs. Unless someone in the Navy was prior Army or Marines, they bring nothing to the table when they pin on their Trident. They are nothing and know nothing about supporting adjacent units. They were Boatswains mates, Machinist mates, ect. When someone goes to SF or MARSOC, they are already an experience combat arms member and they bring that to the table when they hit their first unit. It's priceless.
MARSOC isn't necessarily a new thing though their roots are tied to the Marine Raiders who were a special ops group formed during WW2
Yup. They aren’t called marsoc anymore either. Went back to being called raiders
Except Raiders where less Green Berets and more Ranger style raid force.
The Marines always had some elite units in them, though. There was Recon and Force Recon who may not be special operations on paper, but they can still pull off a lot of the same stuff that SEALs or even Rangers do.
@@Garrus1995 except they won’t. Because they won’t get deployed. You can’t compare them to seals until they are deployed as often as seal teams are. You can’t compare them to the Ranger regiment until you have them deployed every 8 months like a Ranger battalion does
It was disbanded sometime after WW2 then came back in early to mid 2000’s.
Spent 8 years in the 82nd 1st/504th as an 11B. Appreciate the shout out.
The Marine Corps was actually invited to join JSOC when it was formed but the Commandant of the USMC opted out. He wanted control over his Marines.
JSOC? I thought that was SOCOM that the commandant turned down? It was in the early 2000s I think.
@@darren763 No, it was long before then. Think late 80's early 90's.
Lol wait that means two different commandant turned down both jsoc AND socom hahahahahaha
The USMC only set up MARSOC and Raiders when they were bluntly told: either get with the SOC, SF, SAD, program or get disbanded-cut the %=÷& off 💰💰💰.... the US Marines & generals said; uhhhh we want $ and budgets.
@Annemarie It didn't really harm SOCOM/JSOC as much as it did the USMC, by missing out on all those funds for equipment and training. Former Commandant Al Gray is the one who initially turned JSOC down if I remember correctly. He said, "all Marines are elite". In part, the origin of that statement was both about "control" and because the USMC didn't really like the Recon community. Recon was looked at as undisciplined cowboys by the rest of the Corps, and nothing could be further from the truth. Recon used it's own "script" when they needed to and that didn't sit well with the mainstream Corps.
I was in the US army during OIF1 and OIF3,and I enjoyed the times I worked with US Marines,especially in OIF3 near AL Kut..And in 2009 I was deployed to Camp Leatherneck in Helmand,great times as well...I only found motivated Marines all around.
Marine Recon and Force (was the internal "special force" prior to MARSOC). They have been around a while and they have there own indoc/tryout. Marine Recon and Force still exists (you can tryout during SOI) in addition to MARSOC but those guys are Marine Raiders. Both forces have to go through months and months of training (sea, air, and land) very similar to BUDS which is common among all special forces units (lots of bullshit, lots of PT, and lots of getting fucked with just like SEAL/Ranger/75th/Para Rescue. The thing about Marine Raiders, you can't even tryout until after you put in your time (4 years). Regardless whether your a Seal operator, ranger/beret operator, recon/force operator or Marine raider they all have their purpose. They all have to go through intense training, its just a matter of personal preference which one you want to go through. I went the Marine route and have worked with Team 3 in Ramadi. In the end, we're all brothers fighting one fight. No one is better than the other.
-Cheers
ua-cam.com/video/nBOrclf6rwA/v-deo.html
I love how the questions were asked, but i loved even more Jocko's response. Yyyyutttt!!!
Transferring out of the Air Force into the Marine Corps in the next few months. It's about time I earned the title💪
Noooooo don’t do it 😭
Oof
You're doing it wrong
Haha, oh maaaaan...I'm not a veteran, but from what I hear, you're going from the nicest living conditions to the very worst. Thanks for serving.
we all joke we should of joined the Air Force. Good luck
I was an 0331 (M60 gunner) in Hawaii when the Raider concept was in its infancy, and a lot of my fellow Marines were motivated by this new challenge and opportunity. Quite a few of my platoon mates went out of their way to get commercial or recreational SCUBA certs just to get more familiarity being in the water since us "regular" Grunts couldn't attend and SCUBA schools that the Marines or other branches offered. Recon and Force Recon always filled those slots up leaving us with no other options. I got out in the early 90s, so I am not familiar with whatever came of the Raiders, or even how that relates to MARSOC, but I am sure there is some connection
The Marines were never really out of special operations... they have essentially always been a special operations tasked primary arm of the Navy. The eliteness has been ingrained since rescue operations in Tripoli... as a former airborne and air assault soldier I can say it’s always great to work with Marines... the hijinks and tomfoolery aside... but even then they usually just needed something to appropriately direct their energy at... often the issue for the Marines is not so much having people who qualify as much as it will be having a number of slots to be filled. Often the schools should have more slots... so that cook, truck driver, clerk typist is not only a rifleman but frequently as the person is committed and the qualities necessary... a scout sniper Anglico what have you... thats what makes the Marines so outstanding already. Being a Marine means being the Marine that the Marines need you to be today. Chasing the glory slots can be troublesome for command, morale and discipline. Disappointment is a real issue across the services. As a airborne soldier I don’t understand how everyone does not want to make greater commitments. I always got along well with the Marines. I only fear 250,000 people wanting to be involved is a greater likelihood than the Marines ever coming up short.
The problem with both the Marines and the army is there is just too much on the support side and not enough in the field positions. For instance, 15% of the army is infantry. Even in WW2, about 40% of the troops were nowhere near a combat zone due to just their MOS.
@@orlock20 I understand the situation very well; I was a 13F a forward observer so I am both a support team member and right there with the infantry or out on a OP or something. It takes 36 other people doing their jobs to properly empower me to my job... at which point I look at the infantry as perimeter security under certain conditions because anything targeted is now in the cross hairs of the Air Force, Navy, Marines as well as the Army... the situation made more complicated by logistical concerns and intelligence management. There is tremendous difference between fighting wars and winning wars... between supporting national security and supporting the military industrial complex. When the tax structure and industrial manufacturing development structure is correct every high dollar system... aircraft, ship, armor equipment system pays for a matching piece of equipment. Buy one plane and get one free. Pay for five salaries and economic stimulation and taxes pays for the sixth one. The economic as well as resources and environmental conditions each factor has tipping points. I really like your statement. I don’t think historically that “civilized” standing armies have ever been able to work around this situation. For example the Huns and various tribal cultures don’t have recognized structures but the Huns had family members and captives crafting their arrows... making their “saddles” and gear... the trick is finding the sweet spot were the support generates success.
@@quitequiet5281 I believe it starts with the branches have specific targets to prevent overlap such as the National Guard protecting U.S. territory, the army protecting allies, the navy protecting the sea and providing logistics, the air force targeting Russia, China and North Korea and the Marines and SOF to attack hostile countries, gangs and terrorists. That way the army and air force could be sharing bases with the host nations while the Marines use the Navy's infrastructure.
@@orlock20 yes, I agree we are over stretched with 800 plus bases.
I would have done the space force thing differently... I would have given all the ships to the Coast Guard. Tasked the Navy with getting us into space. The similarities between space today and open ocean travel five hundred years ago are remarkably similar. Aircraft carriers and submarines have much in common with spacecraft. Reorganization of national efforts into exploration, research and space development rather political economic social hierarchy maintenance would allow us to transform into a image matching our belief of who we are... rather than being corporate property entertaining ourselves with distractions. The problem is that we need the economy functioning and the people both educated and with united idea of what “we” or “they” want to accomplish... then aligning our efforts to create a open free market society working together to achieve success.
Our computers and smart devices are dumbing us down frequently rather building us up. Don’t get me wrong I love playing video games and surfing the internet but I would rather be using the same technology in a more useful way... but it’s not being developed; because the focus is on information mining in order to sell things and gain subscribers... at this rate we could all become successful UA-camrs with 1 million followers each and each of us have a successful Amazon product and even though everyone is making money... no one might be interested flipping burgers or feeding chickens or growing potatoes... so at some point failing in reality even though everything seemed wonderful.
I don’t know exactly how many bases are overseas are escalating rental costs in order to support local political agendas. While crushing our budgets. Are we there to enrich them? Or help them? We need to develop values and align political perspectives in agreement with economic realities.
Troops in Afghanistan should be receiving steak and lobster frequently because the cost of delivery exceeds the substance being shipped. So the substance should be worth shipping. Whereas spending the time and resources spent capturing the high ground and developing advanced technologies in conjunction with updating our infrastructure alters the national trajectory... we are spending billions of dollars and not actually accomplishing our goals because there is no real plan. People are putting in hard difficult dangerous work but there was never a true strategy other than spending money. If we had made Marshal plan for Afghanistan they would have world class economy by now and be a major trading partner. But we are dropping high tech on people who can not reach our country because foreigners were hiding in their country. It’s like we are trying to copy the mistakes of fallen historical empires.
Wow I feel like I wrote chapter of a book.
@@quitequiet5281 hey man, you sound like a bank of knowledge. Good shit.
A BJJ training mate of mine who served overseas in the Australian army who trained along side the USMC, said they are great blokes and just like our soldiers 👍
Marines had raiders in WW2 that went behind enemy lines for months at a time sabotaging and killing the enemy. MARSOC is like a reborn Raider. Which is now what MARSOC is called
I understand now the basic difference between Recon and Raider is Green Op and Black op. My missions were always Green ops... but could go black. Raiders know going in that the shit is going to fly. Obviously, I'm very old school to all this now.
I had a old patient many years ago from the Marine Raiders of World War ll. Though I had recognized his tattoo, he humbly spoke nothing about it.
My view on the matter is:
The Marine Corps attracts a unique type of individual who is not merely content with being good; they strive to be the best. They embrace challenges and thrive in demanding environments. This unwavering commitment to excellence is evident in their willingness to undergo rigorous infantry training, regardless of their specific MOS. For Combat MOSs like 03xx, 18xx, and 08xx, the training is even more intense and specialized. Beyond the rigorous physical demands, all Marines are deeply immersed in the history and traditions of the corps. They internalize the ethos that personal shortcomings are unacceptable, as they directly impact the success of the team. This combination of factors, despite having a smaller recruitment pool, results in a higher caliber of recruits for MARSOC compared to other Special Operations forces. While all Special Operations personnel are exceptional, those in MARSOC stand out for their efficiency and humility (which is Ironic as Marines are generally known for their deserved arrogance).
So now we have to ask you to draw -your perception- of comparisons between MARSOC and JSOC units. Just general comparison, selection requirements and training intensity.
I was in the Infantry 84-88 we also had MEU in that time and changed over to MEUSOC in that same time
so SOC has been around for some time in the Corps, and there was also Recon and Force Recon in that time, the difference was in Mission abilities, for MEUSOC in my time I was in a Helo Raid Company for my part, but our main goal was within notice we were in country in 6 hours boots on the ground and that part still exist today, Today they have branched of into, MEUSOC, MARSOC, RAIDERS.
Nick Kefidelis tells a hell of a MARSOC, raider story! One of the greatest I've ever heard to this day!
Nick Kefalides, killed in Afghanistan the 3rd highest terrorist on the kill list. Nick is a badass!
Thank you Jocko. Hero supporting other Heroes.
Jocko, do you think the 101st Airborne Division is still elite, despite not being an airborne unit? Want to be a paratrooper but also want to be part of the Screaming Eagles. What are your thoughts on that unit?
Edit: Anyone can answer, I don’t mind
Go 75th rangers they all airborne and best light infantry in the world
Jocko is NOT the guy to answer that question since he was a Navy Seal. I served 4 yrs in the 101at and also the 82nd ABN. I really don’t like the word “elite” because it really makes no sense when applying it to military units. I had the honor of serving in infantry units assigned to those divisions and training was great in both of them. However, being a paratrooper was simply amazing given the mission we trained to do, so I felt more attachment to the 82nd. Now, special operations has been all the rage these last couple of decades due to GWOT. I did serve in a SF unit in a support role, so I got to see and do a number of things that most soldiers wish they could have experienced. To be truthful, I felt that my time in the 82nd was the best out of all the units I served in. SF is in it’s own category because the mission and environment was very different, but I was a true soldier in the 82nd. That is not a knock on the 101st at all because they are great as as well, but being a paratrooper made you feel a certain way.
Bottom line, it is all about your leadership and the standards they enforce. That is what would make a unit feel “elite”.
@@parawill7074 Thank you for answering sir. They recently deactivated a pathfinder company in the 101st that was airborne, so there’s that. I wanted to be in the 101st due to their heritage and I wish by the time in enter, they atleast have one unit that’s airborne. But the 82nd also is a better option since I want to be a paratrooper. I did hear about some people being in the 101st while only being airborne qualified, but idk about that.
@@markrobertson5398 you’re right. They still are paratroopers.
@@parmsidhu2541 - The 101st is a pure conventional fighting force that is heavily air mobile. I would recommend you get a airborne or Ranger contract. Now, if you are seeking to be pushed to your limits and also be a paratrooper, fight to get a Ranger contract above all else. If you have the right mentality and want to be out there doing special operations, Ranger is the way to go if you plan on going into the Army. The Rangers are a good outfit and I would recommend them to anyone seeking to be part of SOF right out the gate. They simply get more training and opportunity to go fight right now compared to other units.
People get confused with MARSOC and seals was because of their selection and training process but it’s very different, one guy who was a MARSOC from Savage actual and he said that it was a lot of recon more than swimming compared to SEALS and he did say that even though that we are trained in this type of operation but we are not water based but can conduct in underwater operations if needed, but there was a lot of recon involved with this special operations unit.
The Navy's army has it's own air force!
And it one of world's finest lol.
There’s a reason why they modeled their structure around US Army Special Forces from the selection process to their qualification course and organizational structure. That is the significant battlefield impact that GBs have, add in some hardcore Marine Corps tradition, history and ideology and you end up with one amazing contribution to SOCCOM!
Jocko is a Legend himself and always keeps it 1000 and extremely professional. Add his books to your library. You won’t regret it.
I think all you guys that served are awesome..
Thanks for your service
2:18 "there's an incredible esprit de corps" - haha, that's an understatement!
its about mission, every branch has their strengths. the branches are just different. i was in the marine corps but met outstanding dudes from all branches.
You should try to get SGM Mike Glover on your podcast it would be super interesting to see you interview a career Green Beret.
Jocko I agree with you. MARSOC WAS FINALLY PUT UNDER A TIER 1 HEADING AFTER THEIR BEGINNING. This provided them with all the special equipment they could use
I worked with 3rd Raider Bn as a contractor for almost 2 years. There are a lot of exSF guys working there to train that force. Those Marines were some of the most knowledgeable and professional guys Ive ever worked with. In many respects, they put SF to shame.
Jocko , thanks for the kind words. 1980’s Marine here.
Even more reasons why i want to enlist in the marine corp😤💪🏻🇺🇸
I knew a lot of Marines who were very successful after they left the Corps. The self discipline and determination go a long way. There is a direct correlation between persistence and success. Marines know that at the atomic level.
@@rossiFandallas Thanks for sharing that man
Highly recommend you get good at treading water and go join Recon or the Raiders
@@phillipedwardofficial treading water huh awesome thanks for the advice
@@KnightTemplar976 yeah if you think that getting action is where it’s at then believe me when I say that just being a Marine isn’t enough. Go hard (don’t break yourself) with core/leg strengthening exercises and become a dolphin in the water. Plus if you do either of the two groups I mentioned above then you won’t need to put up with as much rank structure BS
I loved how you recognized the 82nd ARB as high speed soldiers.. airborne!!!...and it's true,we don't quit until the enemy is 6ft,no clocking out..