As I ride about about 70% road and 30% not road (mix of smooth gravel, singletrack, doubletrack and when dry, grass) I just ride a 35mm Panaracer GK Slick Plus, tubeless. I've been riding bikes since I was five and mixed up bmx, mountain bike, road bike and whatnot for 40+ years. I have been adventurous and have spent tons of money buying all kinds of bikes and tires to find the sweet spot before realising that a gravel bike, with a fat slick, tubeless is best of everything for me. I can hold my own with roadies on fast rides and can connect epics rides with everything between the asphalt. Happy camper! (Never race nor care to.)
Agreed about the 42ish sweet spot. I almost exclusively ride Gravelking SS 43s but recently switched them out for the reg GK slicks in 38 to see how much of a speed penalty there was w the 43s on a (road) club ride and the answer was… shockingly little. My body weight is where the greatest penalty lies. Plus I found that I missed the security of the side ridges for winding descents even on pavement. Those SS 43s went back on immediately. The fastest tire is the one that gives you the most confidence, which in turn provides the most fun. Also agree on tread. It takes loose stuff on a 12 percent climb for me to spin out and even that can be mitigated by the right gear ratio.
Gravel road conditions vary so widely as you travel to different locations. I've ridden "rough" Colorado gravel that is similar to some paved roads I ride back home in Missouri. The gravel in the Ozarks is especially chunky because typically the steep roads turn into ditches when it rains, and everything but the big rocks get washed away when it rains hard. The Ozarks require bigger tires and you won't want a slick tire on the rear when climbing, and you will want good side knobs on the front when cornering downhill. The rocks aren't as sharp as the Flint Hills, but you should still plan on having sturdy sidewalls.
I'm getting into gravel and racing this year. People are going to 50 to 57mm. As someone who is 235 will 45 work just fine with carrying gear and living in Missouri as well? Looking at dirty kanza. And a few in Arkansas as well. Thanks
@@totalglitch cool! I don't know how much gear you will be carrying, but I'd say a 45mm tire is a great place to start. If your gravel is extra chunky, a 50mm is very helpful, but definitely not as fast for racing.
Finding the perfect balance speed, traction, and control for a variety of terrain (tarmac, single track, gravel, sand, etc.) has been quite difficult. I ended up settling on the Pirelli Gravel M in 700x45. Like Betsy, I was more concerned about width rather than thread pattern. I found the Gravel M to roll amazingly fast on the tarmac compared to the WTB raddlers in a 700x42 despite being wider which was probably due to it's semi-slick center thread. Because of its more rounded profile, it felt amazingly confident on twisty tarmac descents as well compared to tires with larger knobs on the side. While it loses grip on very loose and sandy climbs, it handles a variety of single track and fireroads just fine due to it's width. When I do need more grip, I just decrease the PSI down to about 18-20 with cushcore inserts, while on tarmac I pump them up to 30-32 psi for speed. 700x45 blows up to 47.5mm on 24mm internal width Spinergy Gx for me.
the length of the ride also plays a role. I can suffer on a thin tire for a couple of hours, but a wider tire which keeps my back and hands feeling better will win out. I love the 48 mm Rene Herse tires. However I also an 85 kg rider so any weight penalty or aero penalty is marginal
CT - break down types of gravel / terrain and what tire sizes and treads corresponds to each one. What is the cutoff for different style bikes? When does a enduro bike meet all the needs of gravel and which point is a dedicated gravel grinder needed? When do you cross into CS style bikes etc? Wider and lower pressure on rougher surfaces isn’t very much help for many riders. Break it down based on experience, interview some true gravel kings who have won races, talk to tire manufacturers who have tested their various tires on different conditions and a wide range of sizes.
not enough people consider running different tires front and back. a 40 on the front with a sort of fine knob, then a near slick on back, works really well. i run a vittoria terreno dry on front, a zero on back, both at 25psi max.
SFBay area. Live and ride hills. Broken old overgrown roads, packed grit walkways, packed dirt gravel along shorelines, rivers, delta. 700x40mm and 45mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H for fast rolling cushy stable ride on most dry surfaces. Experimenting with Gravel M for softer dirt climbing and for morning and wet conditions since Gravel H damp sand, grit, dirt bound in tread. 36psi for all conditions works well for me.
low pressures for tubeless tyres might give you better grip in loose conditions and extra comfort, but in my experience I found that it is also prone to “burping” in rough conditions which can break the tyre seal in the process causing you to loose air very quickly…. I think that is worse than punctures because there is considerably more effort to re-seal a tyre on the trail side than to plug a hole and re-inflate a punctured tyre which has kept its seal around the rim
So the official recommendation is somewhere between 35 & 45 mm? Thanks for telling me what I already knew! I understand why it is difficult to give specific recommendations but that is why it might be best to avoid making videos like this? Knobs for mud, slicks for road etc. What would be more informative would be to ride a route of gravel, mud, tarmac etc on 3 different tyres; 35mm slicks, 42 mm low knob, and 45 mm big knobs. Record times then compare and contrast. It’s an interesting topic which deserves more discussion as there’s not a lot out there. Thanks for giving the subject some light.
My two cents, just go as big as the frame would fit. But choose the thread and casing according to the terrain and ride style. But i agree with your suggestion.
Would have loved to see some actual recommendations for different surfaces, you guys kindof repeated what is already known and common knowledge. The rougher and looser the gravel the wider? - Wow! How about a tires at the 32/33/34mm mark, are they adequate for smoother gravel? Lots of people (including me) are asking themselves this question as these tires fit into endurance and newer aero frames
Great points - I ride a enduro bike and I can fit up to maybe a 38 depending on tire. A 35/36 is really the sweet spot on my bike. I want specific ideas on what I can ride on what terrain. Once again great point and we’ll said everything is exactly whats been said a million times.
It might depend on what the gravel looks like. If its gravel that's stuck together with asphalt then you might need to go narrower, if it's all babyheads you might need bigger
Content could also be....... how much is too much knob? Weight vs rolling resistance?? I've ridden gravel very well on panaracer slicks, yes--lower pressure in the 35psi for 38mm but one factor that is often overlooked is the contact patch of the tire. Knobs are good for deep/loose; however, there is more tire touching flat hard gravel with slicks than knobs and therefore more traction. Equally interesting is the weight factor......... if you don't need the weight of knobs, then why bother?
I think it would have been helpful to reference the isgg gravel standards. I'm in Chicago area. I'm probably in the 1-2 range with occasional 3. Running 36-37 mm tires. HED Belgium G rims.
I've got salsa cutthroat that has teravail sparwood 29 x 2.2. Planning on riding a 500 mile rail/canal trail. Hard packed limestone/ gravel. Should I go down to 42mm tire like rene herse Hurricane Ridge? How much performance will I see?
I'm curious what the presenters run on their personal bikes, as a Colorado local myself. I had 32 Panaracer GK slicks on my bike until recently. Fast on the road and surprisingly competent on smooth gravel. I had the tire completely blow off my hookless Zipp 303S' twice. That was enough for me. Switched to 700x30 WTB Exposure's and so far so good. Could have used a bit more tire up in the dirt roads in Boulder this morning though.
The wider the tire you want, the more you want a mtb and not a fake genre gravel bike. Most 'smooth gravel roads' turn to crap. When roads to turn to crap, they beat you up if you have a gravel bike with a drop handlebar with more weight on your hands and typical skinnier gravel bike tires. There is a reason that out of all bike genres, gravel bikes have come along 'lately'. This is because this false genre of bicycle was invented by bike manufacturers to sell more bikes. On the road, a road bike. Off road, a hardtail mountain bike with 2" wide tires and flatbar with more weight on your bum. Super narly trails? Dual suspension mtb. If you take a gravel bike to A-group ride on the road you will get dropped unless you are Peter Sagan and most aren''t. I lived on a gravel bike for many years. If I were to rip this road on a gravel bike, it would have beat my body to death. The gravel on my road was course and the road could turn into a washboard. Many gravel roads are like that. Try overbiking those types of 'gravel roads' on a gravel bike and you will need physical therapy. Sorry, I am not a fan of the genre as you can tell. Go to Leadville and see what kind of bikes compete and win that 'gravel road' race. Its all flatbar mountain bikes.
You’ve misunderstood the “gravel” genre. Essentially these bikes are built to excel at mixed surface riding. Sure an MTB is far better for the narly stuff but a gravel bike blows it away on the road.
@@timdixo Biggest misunderstanding that bicycle is a means of transport first then a sport can you guess which sector makes industry more clients? Can't remember last time I saw a fatass MTB commuting in my city.
@@totalglitch I am on 44mm now on my gravelbike. It is good, but not as fast as thin road tyres on my road bike when riding asphalt. Maybe 5% slower on asphalt?
Why tubeless? Tube is still the best option to go with, not so much nasty stuff with tubeless milk and knots, just replace tube and go. I don´t understand this "tubeless tires stuff".
Tubeless has the following advantages: 1. rolls faster, this is proven and not up for debate. 2. less chance of a pinch flat, allowing one to ride lower pressures which allow for better ride quality and faster rolling again over uneven surfaces. Yes, you can pinch flat a tubeless tire, but you have to hit the rim much harder to do so than with a tube. 3. Sealant will seal small punctures instantly, such that one often does not even know when they occur until a close inspection of the tire after riding-these types of punctures would have one replacing a tube when riding with tubes. 4. Riding lower pressures also means less chance of cutting/slashing the tire on a rock, as at lower pressures the tire will deform around sharp objects more readily.
As I ride about about 70% road and 30% not road (mix of smooth gravel, singletrack, doubletrack and when dry, grass) I just ride a 35mm Panaracer GK Slick Plus, tubeless. I've been riding bikes since I was five and mixed up bmx, mountain bike, road bike and whatnot for 40+ years. I have been adventurous and have spent tons of money buying all kinds of bikes and tires to find the sweet spot before realising that a gravel bike, with a fat slick, tubeless is best of everything for me. I can hold my own with roadies on fast rides and can connect epics rides with everything between the asphalt. Happy camper! (Never race nor care to.)
Agreed about the 42ish sweet spot. I almost exclusively ride Gravelking SS 43s but recently switched them out for the reg GK slicks in 38 to see how much of a speed penalty there was w the 43s on a (road) club ride and the answer was… shockingly little. My body weight is where the greatest penalty lies. Plus I found that I missed the security of the side ridges for winding descents even on pavement. Those SS 43s went back on immediately. The fastest tire is the one that gives you the most confidence, which in turn provides the most fun.
Also agree on tread. It takes loose stuff on a 12 percent climb for me to spin out and even that can be mitigated by the right gear ratio.
Gravel road conditions vary so widely as you travel to different locations. I've ridden "rough" Colorado gravel that is similar to some paved roads I ride back home in Missouri. The gravel in the Ozarks is especially chunky because typically the steep roads turn into ditches when it rains, and everything but the big rocks get washed away when it rains hard. The Ozarks require bigger tires and you won't want a slick tire on the rear when climbing, and you will want good side knobs on the front when cornering downhill. The rocks aren't as sharp as the Flint Hills, but you should still plan on having sturdy sidewalls.
I'm getting into gravel and racing this year. People are going to 50 to 57mm. As someone who is 235 will 45 work just fine with carrying gear and living in Missouri as well? Looking at dirty kanza. And a few in Arkansas as well. Thanks
@@totalglitch cool! I don't know how much gear you will be carrying, but I'd say a 45mm tire is a great place to start. If your gravel is extra chunky, a 50mm is very helpful, but definitely not as fast for racing.
@@totalglitch I definitely think 45mm will work just fine. That's what most people ride in southern MO and northern AR.
Finding the perfect balance speed, traction, and control for a variety of terrain (tarmac, single track, gravel, sand, etc.) has been quite difficult. I ended up settling on the Pirelli Gravel M in 700x45. Like Betsy, I was more concerned about width rather than thread pattern. I found the Gravel M to roll amazingly fast on the tarmac compared to the WTB raddlers in a 700x42 despite being wider which was probably due to it's semi-slick center thread. Because of its more rounded profile, it felt amazingly confident on twisty tarmac descents as well compared to tires with larger knobs on the side. While it loses grip on very loose and sandy climbs, it handles a variety of single track and fireroads just fine due to it's width. When I do need more grip, I just decrease the PSI down to about 18-20 with cushcore inserts, while on tarmac I pump them up to 30-32 psi for speed. 700x45 blows up to 47.5mm on 24mm internal width Spinergy Gx for me.
Have you tried the Pirelli Cinturato Gravel M ?? I run it 35mm, and it rolls amazing on asphalt. Does really well on gravel.
the length of the ride also plays a role. I can suffer on a thin tire for a couple of hours, but a wider tire which keeps my back and hands feeling better will win out. I love the 48 mm Rene Herse tires. However I also an 85 kg rider so any weight penalty or aero penalty is marginal
CT - break down types of gravel / terrain and what tire sizes and treads corresponds to each one. What is the cutoff for different style bikes? When does a enduro bike meet all the needs of gravel and which point is a dedicated gravel grinder needed? When do you cross into CS style bikes etc? Wider and lower pressure on rougher surfaces isn’t very much help for many riders. Break it down based on experience, interview some true gravel kings who have won races, talk to tire manufacturers who have tested their various tires on different conditions and a wide range of sizes.
not enough people consider running different tires front and back. a 40 on the front with a sort of fine knob, then a near slick on back, works really well. i run a vittoria terreno dry on front, a zero on back, both at 25psi max.
Good point! I almost always run different tires on my mountain bikes, and have for decades.
I've been riding my specialized diverge for 3 years now with tubes on all kinds of terrain and I weigh 240lbs with zero flats
SFBay area. Live and ride hills. Broken old overgrown roads, packed grit walkways, packed dirt gravel along shorelines, rivers, delta. 700x40mm and 45mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H for fast rolling cushy stable ride on most dry surfaces. Experimenting with Gravel M for softer dirt climbing and for morning and wet conditions since Gravel H damp sand, grit, dirt bound in tread. 36psi for all conditions works well for me.
Pirelli has 2 new Gravel specific tires. But the Gravel H and M seem best for mix surfaces that include asphalt and concrete. Any hardpack surfaces.
low pressures for tubeless tyres might give you better grip in loose conditions and extra comfort, but in my experience I found that it is also prone to “burping” in rough conditions which can break the tyre seal in the process causing you to loose air very quickly…. I think that is worse than punctures because there is considerably more effort to re-seal a tyre on the trail side than to plug a hole and re-inflate a punctured tyre which has kept its seal around the rim
This is the argument for Cush Core inserts
So the official recommendation is somewhere between 35 & 45 mm? Thanks for telling me what I already knew! I understand why it is difficult to give specific recommendations but that is why it might be best to avoid making videos like this? Knobs for mud, slicks for road etc. What would be more informative would be to ride a route of gravel, mud, tarmac etc on 3 different tyres; 35mm slicks, 42 mm low knob, and 45 mm big knobs. Record times then compare and contrast. It’s an interesting topic which deserves more discussion as there’s not a lot out there. Thanks for giving the subject some light.
They already did a video and an article about this
cyclingtips.com/2021/03/grading-gravel-defining-off-road-surfaces/
My two cents, just go as big as the frame would fit. But choose the thread and casing according to the terrain and ride style. But i agree with your suggestion.
Yes! So region specific… Vermont gravel is not Colorado gravel is not … etc etc
Would have loved to see some actual recommendations for different surfaces, you guys kindof repeated what is already known and common knowledge. The rougher and looser the gravel the wider? - Wow!
How about a tires at the 32/33/34mm mark, are they adequate for smoother gravel?
Lots of people (including me) are asking themselves this question as these tires fit into endurance and newer aero frames
Truthfully a roadbike with 28c tires is ok for 'smooth gravel'.
Great points - I ride a enduro bike and I can fit up to maybe a 38 depending on tire. A 35/36 is really the sweet spot on my bike. I want specific ideas on what I can ride on what terrain. Once again great point and we’ll said everything is exactly whats been said a million times.
Please discuss the factor of internal wheel width in regards to industry recommended tyre size
I liked it for the smiles at the end. Smile more guys, tyres are not that serious
min. 40mm if u use gravel specific gearing, and max 35mm if you use road gearing
It might depend on what the gravel looks like.
If its gravel that's stuck together with asphalt then you might need to go narrower, if it's all babyheads you might need bigger
Forgot to color grade the video? Super overexposed
All of them seemed that way
Panaracer gravel king ss have tons of grip for dry hard packed here in socal
Content could also be....... how much is too much knob? Weight vs rolling resistance?? I've ridden gravel very well on panaracer slicks, yes--lower pressure in the 35psi for 38mm but one factor that is often overlooked is the contact patch of the tire. Knobs are good for deep/loose; however, there is more tire touching flat hard gravel with slicks than knobs and therefore more traction. Equally interesting is the weight factor......... if you don't need the weight of knobs, then why bother?
42 mm and slick is the sweet spot. Not great in mud but awesome the rest of the time
I think it would have been helpful to reference the isgg gravel standards.
I'm in Chicago area. I'm probably in the 1-2 range with occasional 3.
Running 36-37 mm tires.
HED Belgium G rims.
I'm looking fwd to the Litespeed review as seen herein!
Good vid guys
I've got salsa cutthroat that has teravail sparwood 29 x 2.2.
Planning on riding a 500 mile rail/canal trail. Hard packed limestone/ gravel.
Should I go down to 42mm tire like rene herse Hurricane Ridge?
How much performance will I see?
try riding UK 'gravel' - you may change your mind on how much tread you want!
Would love to someday! So what's it like?
UK gravel. That's anything from byways, bridleways, towpaths to mtb trails. The Trek FX2 is the optimum bike.
I'm curious what the presenters run on their personal bikes, as a Colorado local myself. I had 32 Panaracer GK slicks on my bike until recently. Fast on the road and surprisingly competent on smooth gravel. I had the tire completely blow off my hookless Zipp 303S' twice. That was enough for me. Switched to 700x30 WTB Exposure's and so far so good. Could have used a bit more tire up in the dirt roads in Boulder this morning though.
Does heat play a factor in tip casing?
23's yo I hit table top jumps all day any day with 23's at 10 psi front and 14 in back
At least 1, I reckon 😃
People who say knobs don't matter definitely haven't climbed slippery grass climbs and wet roots, or rode in British winter.
Big knobs drifting like a pro, on asphalt ;)
If you feel the need (or ride rough enough surfaces) to run anything over 40mm, get a mountain bike...
Thanks god bless
Forget not that braking is fundamental. A tire that doesn't give you stability and reliability while braking should be avoided.
Then why is everyone going to 50 lauf to 57. It's crazy. But if you a heavy will a bigger tire help?
I think you need a bit larger tyres when heavy to get away with less tyre pressure.
How huge a climber, gigantic?
35c all the way. Mainly because the bike can’t fit much wider
LAME
The wider the tire you want, the more you want a mtb and not a fake genre gravel bike. Most 'smooth gravel roads' turn to crap. When roads to turn to crap, they beat you up if you have a gravel bike with a drop handlebar with more weight on your hands and typical skinnier gravel bike tires. There is a reason that out of all bike genres, gravel bikes have come along 'lately'. This is because this false genre of bicycle was invented by bike manufacturers to sell more bikes. On the road, a road bike. Off road, a hardtail mountain bike with 2" wide tires and flatbar with more weight on your bum. Super narly trails? Dual suspension mtb.
If you take a gravel bike to A-group ride on the road you will get dropped unless you are Peter Sagan and most aren''t. I lived on a gravel bike for many years. If I were to rip this road on a gravel bike, it would have beat my body to death. The gravel on my road was course and the road could turn into a washboard. Many gravel roads are like that. Try overbiking those types of 'gravel roads' on a gravel bike and you will need physical therapy.
Sorry, I am not a fan of the genre as you can tell. Go to Leadville and see what kind of bikes compete and win that 'gravel road' race. Its all flatbar mountain bikes.
You’ve misunderstood the “gravel” genre. Essentially these bikes are built to excel at mixed surface riding.
Sure an MTB is far better for the narly stuff but a gravel bike blows it away on the road.
@@timdixo Biggest misunderstanding that bicycle is a means of transport first then a sport can you guess which sector makes industry more clients? Can't remember last time I saw a fatass MTB commuting in my city.
So would a 45mm tire or 50mm tire work just fine on your gravel road?
@@totalglitch I am on 44mm now on my gravelbike. It is good, but not as fast as thin road tyres on my road bike when riding asphalt. Maybe 5% slower on asphalt?
Why tubeless? Tube is still the best option to go with, not so much nasty stuff with tubeless milk and knots, just replace tube and go. I don´t understand this "tubeless tires stuff".
Tubeless has the following advantages: 1. rolls faster, this is proven and not up for debate. 2. less chance of a pinch flat, allowing one to ride lower pressures which allow for better ride quality and faster rolling again over uneven surfaces. Yes, you can pinch flat a tubeless tire, but you have to hit the rim much harder to do so than with a tube. 3. Sealant will seal small punctures instantly, such that one often does not even know when they occur until a close inspection of the tire after riding-these types of punctures would have one replacing a tube when riding with tubes. 4. Riding lower pressures also means less chance of cutting/slashing the tire on a rock, as at lower pressures the tire will deform around sharp objects more readily.